View Poll Results: what was Ted Bundy's type?

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  • ILE (ENTp)

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Thread: Ted Bundy

  1. #1

    Default Ted Bundy

    My guess is ENxJ

    Wikipedia:
    Theodore Robert Bundy
    (born Theodore Robert Cowell; November 24, 1946 – January 24, 1989) was an American serial killer, kidnapper, rapist, and necrophile who assaulted and murdered numerous young women and girls during the 1970s and possibly earlier. Shortly before his execution, after more than a decade of denials, he confessed to 30 homicides committed in seven states between 1974 and 1978. The true victim count remains unknown, and could be much higher.


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    I think he could have been an SLE E3, actually.

    He represents the unhealthy/psychotic side of E3 to a tee.

    Quoting from Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery:

    “In addition to crimes like assault, arson, and sabotage, psychopathic Threes are entirely capable or murder. They are capable of killing a human being with as little remorse as normal people have in killing a fly. Their psychopathic behaviour may seem unmotivated because of the randomness of their violence, as in the case of a sniper shooting at people on a street below. But from the psychopath’s point of view, the crime is motivated by the constant need to regain superiority by destroying others. It is also worth nothing that male psychopath’s victims are frequently women, and since Threes often identified with their mothers, this fits the pattern. To arrive at Level 9, it is extremely likely that Threes experienced incredible abuse as children. Nothing they could do or be could win the affection or positive regard of their nurturing-figure. But since Threes depend upon gaining the affirmation of their nurturing-figure, and since a small child cannot consciously hate their parent and survive psychologically, their rage is displaced onto substitute figures who somehow remind the psychopath of their original torments. Rape, torture, and sexual mutilation are frequent outcomes.”
    3s can be excellent manipulators and liars, especially the 3w2 kind.
    Bundy was engaging in those manipulation tactics in the above interview, but also in general.
    He was known to be charming. All typical Type 3 traits.

    So, while he may not be SLE (not as certain of it, but I believe he was surely Se valuing and 1D Fi),
    it seems highly likely to me he was an unhealthy 3.

    P.S: Personally, based on the above I'd say he is either SLE or LIE. I lean towards SLE, because I have trouble seeing Ni Creative for him. He did not foresee where his actions could/would take him. He seems to have been focusing primarily on the present moment, disregarding any future consequences.
    Last edited by Medusa; 08-22-2016 at 01:37 PM.
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    Probably Ni-creative 3w2

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    SLE-Se 3w4 so/sp - this doesn't sound like he had Fe in ego block: "I didn't know what made things tick. I didn't know what made people want to be friends. I didn't know what made people attractive to one another. I didn't know what underlay social interactions." - Ted Bundy discussing his high school years.


    Some additional information for typing from Wikipedia article on him (link):

    Modus operandi: Bundy was an unusually organized and calculating criminal who used his extensive knowledge of law enforcement methodologies to elude identification and capture for years. His crime scenes were distributed over large geographic areas; his victim count had risen to at least 20 before it became clear that numerous investigators in widely disparate jurisdictions were hunting the same man. His assault methods of choice were blunt trauma and strangulation, two relatively silent techniques that could be accomplished with common household items. He deliberately avoided firearms due to the noise they made and the ballistic evidence they left behind. He was a "meticulous researcher" who explored his surroundings in minute detail, looking for safe sites to seize and dispose of victims. He was unusually skilled at minimizing physical evidence. His fingerprints were never found at a crime scene, nor was any other incontrovertible evidence of his guilt, a fact he repeated often during the years in which he attempted to maintain his innocence.

    Other significant obstacles for law enforcement were Bundy's generic, essentially anonymous physical features, and a curious chameleon-like ability to change his appearance almost at will. Early on, police complained of the futility of showing his photograph to witnesses; he looked different in virtually every photo ever taken of him. In person, "... his expression would so change his whole appearance that there were moments that you weren't even sure you were looking at the same person", said Stewart Hanson, Jr., the judge in the DaRonch trial. "He [was] really a changeling." Bundy was well aware of this unusual quality and he exploited it, using subtle modifications of facial hair or hairstyle to significantly alter his appearance as necessary. He concealed his one distinctive identifying mark, a dark mole on his neck, with turtleneck shirts and sweaters. Even his Volkswagen Beetle proved difficult to pin down; its color was variously described by witnesses as metallic or non-metallic, tan or bronze, light brown or dark brown.

    Bundy's modus operandi evolved in organization and sophistication over time, as is typical of serial murderers, according to FBI experts. Early on, it consisted of forcible late-night entry followed by a violent attack with a blunt weapon on a sleeping victim. Some victims were sexually assaulted with inert objects; all except Healy were left as they lay, unconscious or dead.[289] As his methodology evolved Bundy became progressively more organized in his choice of victims and crime scenes. He would employ various ruses designed to lure his victim to the vicinity of his vehicle where he had pre-positioned a weapon, usually a crowbar. In many cases he wore a plaster cast on one leg or a sling on one arm, and sometimes hobbled on crutches, then requested assistance in carrying something to his vehicle. Bundy was regarded as handsome and charismatic by many of his victims, traits he exploited to win their confidence. "Ted lured females", Michaud wrote, "the way a lifeless silk flower can dupe a honey bee." Once near or inside his vehicle the victim would be overpowered, bludgeoned, and restrained with handcuffs. Most were sexually assaulted and strangled, either at the primary crime scene or (more commonly) after transport to a pre-selected secondary site, often a considerable distance away.In situations where his looks and charm were not useful, he invoked authority by identifying himself as a police officer or firefighter. Toward the end of his spree, in Florida, perhaps under the stress of being a fugitive, he regressed to indiscriminate attacks on sleeping victims.

    At secondary sites he would remove and later burn the victim's clothing, or in at least one case (Cunningham's) deposit them in a Goodwill Industries collection bin. Bundy explained that the clothing removal was ritualistic, but also a practical matter, as it minimized the chance of leaving trace evidence at the crime scene that could implicate him. (A manufacturing error in fibers from his own clothing, ironically, provided a crucial incriminating link to Kimberly Leach.) He often revisited his secondary crime scenes to engage in acts of necrophilia, and to groom or dress up the cadavers. Some victims were found wearing articles of clothing they had never worn, or nail polish that family members had never seen. He took Polaroid photos of many of his victims. "When you work hard to do something right," he told Hagmaier, "you don't want to forget it." Consumption of large quantities of alcohol was an "essential component", he told Keppel, and later Michaud; he needed to be "extremely drunk" while on the prowl in order to "significantly diminish" his inhibitions and to "sedate" the "dominant personality" that he feared might prevent his inner "entity" from acting on his impulses.

    All of Bundy's known victims were white females, most of middle-class backgrounds. Almost all were between the ages of 15 and 25 and most were college students. He apparently never approached anyone he might have met before. (In their last conversation before his execution, Bundy told Kloepfer he had purposely stayed away from her "when he felt the power of his sickness building in him.") Rule noted that most of the identified victims had long straight hair, parted in the middle—like Stephanie Brooks, the woman who rejected him, and to whom he later became engaged and then rejected in return. Rule speculated that Bundy's animosity toward his first girlfriend triggered his protracted rampage and caused him to target victims who resembled her. Bundy dismissed this hypothesis: "[T]hey ... just fit the general criteria of being young and attractive", he told Hugh Aynesworth. "Too many people have bought this crap that all the girls were similar ... [but] almost everything was dissimilar ... physically, they were almost all different." He did concede that youth and beauty were "absolutely indispensable criteria" in his choice of victims.
    Last edited by silke; 08-25-2016 at 06:42 PM.

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    He could be SLE, but he also had a degree in psychology (was an honorary student) and volunteered at suicide crisis Hot Lines. Kinda weird choice for SLE (but not impossible ofc). He's a pathological liar, so it's hard to tell what is true and what isn't, or even what motivates him since...psycho.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    SLE-Se 3w4 so/sp - this doesn't sound like he had Fe in ego block: "I didn't know what made things tick. I didn't know what made people want to be friends. I didn't know what made people attractive to one another. I didn't know what underlay social interactions." - Ted Bundy discussing his high school years.
    What he is saying there actually sounds like SO blindspot to me.
    That is why I find typing him as So/Sp seems a bit odd, especially in combination with this quote.
    Based on this quote alone, I'd type him as Sx/Sp, maybe even Sp/Sx. Not saying I strongly believe that is what he was, but the quote makes him seem that way...

    The issue with just taking a random quote of his is the fact that he would lie constantly. He could have just lied there, trying to make himself look more sympathetic, like someone who just did not know better.

    Somehow I feel like he was a very unhealthy SX first individual.
    But I could be wrong.
    Last edited by Medusa; 08-23-2016 at 08:42 AM.
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  7. #7

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    He has excellent control of Fe, even if he is faking it. EIE or even IEI are possibilities. He comes off as intuitive.

    Before you guys start saying "that's not Fe he's just a manipulative psychopath" compare him to this Beta ST psychopath:

    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    I feel like conflating Ni creatives with being capable of foreseeing consequences and acting to one's benefit is missing the point when it comes to the impact of mental health and criminal pathology on one's behaviors. Bundy was a psychopath, a cold blooded murderer, a pathological liar, etc. His disregard for the law and the consequences of breaking it by murdering numerous people isn't evidence for him being a Ni creative or not, but is instead evidence for him being what he was: an insane psychopathic serial killer.

    A tendency towards criminality does not make a type.

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    Besides my impression he has rather Fe HA than in his Ego, I just cannot see how he has Ni in his Ego (as a Beta NF he would have it), as I mentioned earlier.
    In addition to that, he does not seem Victim Romance Style either, at all.

    How he murdered and mutilated his victims was like a very unhealthy Aggressor out of control, pretty much.

    Just think about it, what is more likely: That he has weak or weak ?

    For all its worth, from all the Ni ego types he could be, I'd vote for LIE.
    At least they are Pseudo-Aggressors, have Se HA, and are Logical.

    Personally, I'd rule out Beta NF. And no, not because he is a psychopath.
    There is one particular German person in human history who was pretty much psycho himself, and he was obviously Beta NF.
    Technically he was a mass murderer, but never actually physically murdered and mutilated many people himself. Instead, he let other people do it for him.
    I don't see that for Bundy.
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    SLE-Se 3w4 so/sp - this doesn't sound like he had Fe in ego block: "I didn't know what made things tick. I didn't know what made people want to be friends. I didn't know what made people attractive to one another. I didn't know what underlay social interactions." - Ted Bundy discussing his high school years.
    This probably has something to do with him being a psychopath. They have an inability to form connections to people or understand the meaning behind them.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post

    Personally, I'd rule out Beta NF. And no, not because he is a psychopath.
    There is one particular German person in human history who was pretty much psycho himself, and he was obviously Beta NF.
    Technically he was a mass murderer, but never actually physically murdered and mutilated many people himself. Instead, he let other people do it for him.
    I don't see that for Bundy.
    Stalin_Image.jpg

    Unless Stalin (whom many people consider to be LSI) somehow managed to murder millions of people with his own hands, I don't really see how a comparison between Bundy and ****** in making the case for or against Ni creative is all that fruitful.

    The mass murdering leader of an industrialized nation vs a serial killer isn't comparable.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    Besides my impression he has rather Fe HA than in his Ego, I just cannot see how he has Ni in his Ego (as a Beta NF he would have it), as I mentioned earlier.
    In addition to that, he does not seem Victim Romance Style either, at all.

    How he murdered and mutilated his victims was like a very unhealthy Aggressor out of control, pretty much.

    Just think about it, what is more likely: That he has weak or weak ?

    For all its worth, from all the Ni ego types he could be, I'd vote for LIE.
    At least they are Pseudo-Aggressors, have Se HA, and are Logical.

    Personally, I'd rule out Beta NF. And no, not because he is a psychopath.
    There is one particular German person in human history who was pretty much psycho himself, and he was obviously Beta NF.
    Technically he was a mass murderer, but never actually physically murdered and mutilated many people himself. Instead, he let other people do it for him.
    I don't see that for Bundy.
    I really don't think phisically attacking and mutilating their victims makes someone an aggresor in socionics sense. Patrick Bateman was definitely LIE and not SLE.

    I'm not a killer obviously, but I can totally see myself phisically attacking someone if they would piss me off enough - and I'm very victim romance-wise. Beta NF's all not all these shrinking non-agressive flowers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bane View Post
    Stalin_Image.jpg

    Unless Stalin (whom many people consider to be LSI) somehow managed to murder millions of people with his own hands, I don't really see how a comparison between Bundy and ****** is all that fruitful.

    The leader of an industrialized nation vs a serial killer isn't comparable.
    Ha, I actually thought about the same issue.
    It is not the best analogy. But even so, just personality wise Mr H and Ted Bundy are not that similar at all (based on my impression).
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    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    I really don't think phisically attacking and mutilating their victims makes someone an aggresor in socionics sense. Patrick Bateman was definitely LIE and not SLE.

    I'm not a killer obviously, but I can totally see myself phisically attacking someone if they would piss me off enough - and I'm very victim romance-wise. Beta NF's all not all these shrinking non-agressive flowers.
    Patrick Bateman is not real, and was based on the personality of both Ted Bundy and his author Bret Easton Ellis. The author worked on Wall Street and is likely an LIE himself. In interviews he reported he simply wrote down his own personal frustrations regarding his job and the "yuppie lifestyle". That is probably where Bateman got most of his personality from. Whereas Bateman's "out of character" murder "sessions" were inspired by Ted Bundy.

    It is true that the act of murder is not truly linked to Romance Style or any particular IE, but how someone murders people certainly can give you clues about their personality.
    As far as I know, that is one way how forensic analysts etc. create profiles of killers. They look at how the person killed the particular victim, and infer their tools, the time of the crime, the motivation and personality of the killer from that information.

    Beta NFs are the most Victim in the entire Socion. I just find it extremely unlikely one of the most brutal serial killers in "modern" human history has been a Victim type – apart from maybe being a Pseudo-Aggressor, LIE.
    And I am not basing my typing only off his Romance Style, but also other aspects. Finally, I am not claiming I am 100% certain of his type. I just find Beta NF one of the most unlikely types for him, besides Delta NF. IEI and EII being rather impossible. I cannot see how Ted Bundy was a 4D type, even as a psychopath. In interviews, he'd simply evade moral questions, not knowing how to answer them. A 4D type could have given twisted, plausible seeming ethical incentives, guidelines, or mere opinions. Instead he was trying to elicit sympathy by making it seem like outside sources, like pornography, made him become immoral. Which seems more like a 2D way to elicit sympathy and evade the moral conundrums he was faced with explaining. A 4D person has a kind of "moral compass". Even as a psychopath, they could and would clearly state what they believed was right or wrong. Ted Bundy did none of that.

     
    Elliot Rodger, who was lead (IMO) would always list all the ways how "lesser men" and girls have wronged him, which is pretty .
    Yeah... I believe he was actually most likely an unhealthy ESI 4w3 SX.

    I see so many hot beautiful blonde girls walking with absolute stupid obnoxious looking douchebags. And I just can't help but think how wrong that is. Those beautiful blonde girls should walk with me, not those brutes!
    Last edited by Medusa; 08-23-2016 at 03:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    Patrick Bateman is not real, and was based on the personality of both Ted Bundy and his author Bret Easton Ellis. The author worked on Wall Street and is likely an LIE himself. In interviews he reported he simply wrote down his own personal frustrations regarding his job and the "yuppie lifestyle". That is probably where Bateman got most of his personality from. Whereas Bateman's "out of character" murder "sessions" were inspired by Ted Bundy.

    It is true that the act of murder is not truly linked to Romance Style or any particular IE, but how someone murders people certainly can give you clues about their personality.
    As far as I know, that is one way how forensic analysts etc. create profiles of killers. They look at how the person killed the particular victim, and infer their tools, the time of the crime, the motivation and personality of the killer from that information.

    Beta NFs are the most Victim in the entire Socion. I just find it extremely unlikely one of the most brutal serial killers in "modern" human history has been a Victim type – apart from maybe being a Pseudo-Aggressor, LIE.
    And I am not basing my typing only off his Romance Style, but also other aspects. Finally, I am not claiming I am 100% certain of his type. I just find Beta NF one of the most unlikely types for him, besides Delta NF. IEI and EII being rather impossible. I cannot see how Ted Bundy was a 4D type, even as a psychopath. In interviews, he'd simply evade moral questions, not knowing how to answer them. A 4D type could have given twisted, plausible seeming ethical incentives, guidelines. Instead he was trying to elicit sympathy by making it seem like outside sources, like pornography, made him become immoral. Which seems more like a 2D way to elicit sympathy and evade the moral conundrums he was faced with explaining.
    I don't think he's IEI and I'm not certain about his type either (my first instinct was LIE) - you seem to have studied him a lot. I was simply arguing that other types of people besides agressors can be violent serial killers. There are many SLI serial killers who butcher their victims for example.

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    poor impulse control and not considering the consequences of ones actions are traits of antisocial personality disorder. this is to say, that most sociopaths will probably have these problems. also, if one has an overriding compulsion to kill people, they will likely get caught eventually. no amount of seeing this (the obvious) will help them with their overpowering "need" for sadism or murder. most serial killers as i understand it, can't stop unless someone else stops them.

    eta: although honestly, he did consider the consequences of his actions and carefully evaded being caught for quite a while. he describes himself as inhibited when he was younger and relying on alcohol to overcome inhibitions.
    Last edited by inumbra; 08-23-2016 at 06:43 PM.

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    ILE has been my general impression of Bundy for a long time. Along with what I stated above, I don't think the brutality of his crimes is any indication of Se lead whatsoever, and I highly doubt his proclivity for being a necrophile is either. So far the arguments made for SLE seem to tend toward Fi PoLR being Bundy's defining characteristic when it comes to typing. I agree with what has been said about that.

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    Sadism as a sexual preference is also not a domain of Se people, far from it. Many intuitive freaks out there, I'd even go as far as to say that more N people are into complex power play.

    What type was Richard Ramirez for example? Intuitive for sure.

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    This is kind of a weird discussion, but I can say that, as an LIE, if I had to kill someone, I would want to get it over with as quickly, efficiently, and painlessly (for them) as possible.

    Examples I have seen of what I would call "good deaths" are a massive injection of morphine (Saving Private Ryan), or something which destroys the consciousness before the person is aware that it is happening. Regarding sadism, I agree with @darya. Sadism is not my thing, and is probably not an LIE thing.

    I also don't think Bundy is LIE, but he might not be anything, because I believe that mental illness very effectively distorts personality type.

    Speaking of quick and painless, probably everyone has at one time or another considered ways in which they might suicide. For me, it would be to buy several sticks of dynamite, tape them around my head, and set them off while standing in the middle of a large field (to avoid harming anyone else, and to let the animals and insects do the clean up work). I'd also leave a note saying that "I'm gone, have fun, guys, and it's OK to go ahead and distribute the assets. Have a party with the proceeds." The point being to make it quick and painless for everyone involved. However, suicide is really, really hard, because if it weren't, there'd be no life on Earth at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Sadism is not my thing, and is probably not an LIE thing.
    I disagree completely, unhealthy LIE quickly turns sadistic (e8 kind).

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    i get the vibes too. he reminds me a lot of a couple male types at work, one of whom i am fairly certain is ILE. the slow way of talking with closing his eyes to soak in the essence of something (pinpoint it) so as to state it as conceptually clearly as possible (conveying his conception of himself and why he did what he did) seems at the very least intuitive, but i get an impression from it as well. the "gentle" way of talking also reminds me of ego types.

    he describes his history often in these objective cause and effect terms and sees himself within a broader context (more perhaps). it's an intriguing question to him what creates people like him, and he's thought a lot about it in terms of his experience (although i think it's also just his ego). he only really seems to be coming from a subjective perspective when discussing what *might* be the aspects of things - how he experienced encountering these "influences" in his environment (porn and detective novels => sex and violence) and the "sensations" of that. he talks about it as though it grabbed him from his surroundings and opened some subjective universe of depravity in his mind. he seems to consider this as being particularly significant in what he became (though really i think he would have turned out similarly regardless). it kind of seems like superid to me.

    i'm confused regarding typing him by lack of ethics because he's a psycho. i suspect that rarely develops in sociopaths. maybe bundy has some receptiveness to (sadism), but so do all sadists? he's also "charming" in that he knows how to talk to the interviewer to make him feel valued in the conversation. this is probably the default way that he talks to most people (superficial charm). there is a facade of sincerity, but every now and then a hard/cold look in his eyes which i sense as the “real him” – cold, calculating and devoid of real concern for others. but perhaps he could be typed logical because he simply appears to have strong logic, in particular. he comes across as quite rational, and clarifies well. he also reported that it took him a while to overcome deeply ingrained notions of right and wrong ( perhaps - rules, not anything ethically felt).

    i think it's noteworthy that he was too inhibited for a long time to fulfill his desires and that he used alcohol to diminish his inhibitions. honestly, i would expect ego to be a little less inhibited, but i know there are some leads (even) who can be shy, withdrawn or reticent in certain settings. but i don’t see at all from watching the video in the OP.

    not really sure about EP temperament for him...

    eta: i'm skeptical about his entire story though, as i read he may have started killing much earlier than he reported. also he likes to say what people want to hear and the interviewer has some great issue with pornography which bundy seems to play to so he can end in a dramatic proclamation regarding how dangerous it is. he likes to say things that will get people to validate him... it doesn't matter if what he says is actually true of him as long as he gets the validation? as much as he *says* that he takes responsibility and porn didn't cause him to be what he is (he's not a victim he says), he also repeatedly mentions being "fueled by hardcore pornography" and "vulnerable to it." he is one of the rare people predisposed to turn into a sexual sadist and serial killer once exposed to porn , and had he not been so influenced by it, he at least implies he may not have killed all those people. his story of everything he did disappearing into a gaping crack in his consciousness after, seemed a bit convenient too.

    his story is also rather religious... he describes the battle with temptation (his hardcore porn fueled urges) vs. teachings of right and wrong. porn magazines are like the snake in the garden exposing him (the innocent child) to a dangerous forbidden knowledge.
    Last edited by inumbra; 08-23-2016 at 07:16 PM.

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    His interest in theoretical subjects and his capricious personality and willingness to change his life's path at a moment's notice seems more ILE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    "I didn't know what made things tick. I didn't know what made people want to be friends. I didn't know what made people attractive to one another. I didn't know what underlay social interactions." - Ted Bundy discussing his high school years.

    What he is saying there actually sounds like SO blindspot to me.
    That is why I find typing him as So/Sp seems a bit odd, especially in combination with this quote.
    Based on this quote alone, I'd type him as Sx/Sp, maybe even Sp/Sx. Not saying I strongly believe that is what he was, but the quote makes him seem that way...
    The key word here is "underlay". He's not saying that he doesn't understand social interaction itself, on many reports he was quite socially charming, but that he cannot discern what lies behind it - in context of the entire quote he didn't understand that personal glue that made people bond as friends or that 'juice' that made them attractive to each other. His peers meanwhile described him as "well known and well liked in his school". In interviews he also shows no signs of the typical sx/sp soc-last 'blurtatenousness' that was brought up in the sx/sp thread and he doesn't seem 'quietly charged' at all - instead he demonstrates social glibness and suaveness when conversing with others.


    I've skimmed a few articles about him and based on what is written of his court battles and the detailed report of his methods, he does impress me further as having SeTi as his primary functions. He apparently used his own "extensive knowledge of law enforcement methods" to elude identification and capture for years - this doesn't seem congruent with the 1-dimensional Ti but rather like the 'manipulative', creative Ti that he used to effectively 'dance around' the authorities using their own laws and their own system against them. He was apparently great at finding loopholes in the law to use to his own advantage, for example he got married while already imprisoned by taking advantage of some "obscure Florida law", and he tried to postpone his own execution by making authorities interested in the information he had about additional crime scenes - what they called the "Ted's bones-for-time scheme".

    He liked to steal because, in his own words, he enjoyed wanting something and then immediately going and taking it: "The big payoff for me," Bundy said, "was actually possessing whatever it was I had stolen. I really enjoyed having something ... that I had wanted and gone out and taken." That just impressed me as very much being in the style of the "aggressor" type Se.

    The report on his methods contains further implications of high dimensionality of sensing, such as that "Bundy was a meticulous researcher who explored his surroundings in minute detail" and that "he was unusually skilled at minimizing physical evidence" as despite committing so many violent murders he left no traces behind - that's sounds like someone with an impressive sensory recollection and handle on his environment.

    What also caught attention is that he seemed to have this strong underlying desire to "win!" and to win at any cost (brought Trump to mind) fighting for his freedom and later his livelihood every step of the way, with every effort and every situation. From my Ni point of view, how he behaved at trial proceedings felt like he was disengaged from seeing the 'bigger picture' for the tradeoff of trying to rule every situation to his own favor, and that is Se > Ni.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    He has excellent control of Fe, even if he is faking it. EIE or even IEI are possibilities. He comes off as intuitive.

    Before you guys start saying "that's not Fe he's just a manipulative psychopath" compare him to this Beta ST psychopath:

    http://youtu.be/QXgi72W2H7U
    To me that looks like comparison of soc-3w4 (image triad) to soc-last sp/sx 8w9 (gut triad).

    Bundy is going to appear "to be more Fe" in comparison to a social last 8w9, since the descriptions of Fe get conflated with the image triad 3/4 axis and SOC instinct (and most Beta NF profiles I've translated seem to have this social 4w3/3w4 undertone to them).

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    i watched this recently and it's interesting when overlayed with the interview in the OP... i'm not sure anything he's saying in the interview is actually very true* or significant when it comes to why he did what he did... never does he mention any of his rage towards women. but perhaps he can't actually access that part of himself to verbalize it? i think he only sees other people as objects, and it may be difficult to access rage one might feel towards things. that said, his depiction of his childhood seems quite false. he clearly tried to portray it as more perfect than it was because it feeds into his story of being an innocent child tempted by the evils of satan or whatever (hardcore porn).

    *i mean i think there is truth in it... for instance, he does probably (imo) have an ability to compartmentalize aspects of himself to an extent that is unusual. and i think that it's true that he was addicted (serial killers are generally). but really, focusing almost entirely on "hardcore porn" as such a significant causal factor, is too convenient. it appeals to the man interviewing him (it gets bundy the validation he seeks). it also is easier as explanation... he can use it to garner sympathy--it almost softens what he did through this perspective (focusing on the innocent child and a "darkness" he was exposed to).

    eta: i found this documentary that is trying to get to the bottom of this. although he found things that appealed to his violent eroticism, his need for violence originates somewhere else. though the issue i'm having with this documentary is the emphasis on personal responsibility because everyone feels better living in a world where everything is completely under individual control and where killers admit to being 100% responsible rather than making excuses. it's easier to apply justice and feel vindicated in a world like that. but it's like if bundy told that guy at the end that he wasn't proud of his crimes but it was his decision, i almost wonder if that is just reflecting that guy and telling him what he wants to hear. i think anyone talking to bundy really might be blinded because he just affirms their point of view for them. this puts one at ease and since it's how one already perceives things, there is little need to look outside of it. he validates others so as to get validation back.
    Last edited by inumbra; 08-25-2016 at 07:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    i watched this recently and it's interesting when overlayed with the interview in the OP... i'm not sure anything he's saying in the interview is actually very true or significant when it comes to why he did what he did... never does he mention any of his rage towards women. but perhaps he can't actually access that part of himself to verbalize it? i think he only sees other people as objects, and it may be difficult to access rage one might feel towards *things*.
    I think this is simply him having too weak Fi. He cannot verbalize his personal feelings or judgments about things or people, because his Fi is too weak.
    And likely, it could be Fi PoLR.
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    I got my ENTJ friend to watch the video in the OP and he said he has violent eyes (!) I was surprised because he rarely makes value judgments like that. He said from his eyes you could tell he was a very violent person. Does anyone else get that impression from him?
    He also said he was articulate, intelligent, and clearly lying, and found it shocking that he would try to deceive a trained psychologist here, as though he wouldn't pick up on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ConcreteButterfly View Post
    I got my ENTJ friend to watch the video in the OP and he said he has violent eyes (!) I was surprised because he rarely makes value judgments like that. He said from his eyes you could tell he was a very violent person. Does anyone else get that impression from him?
    He also said he was articulate, intelligent, and clearly lying, and found it shocking that he would try to deceive a trained psychologist here, as though he wouldn't pick up on it.
    Actually, I just watched the first part of the video earlier this evening and I thought exactly the same thing. The guy is lying, deceptive, manipulative, and he has flashes (micro-expressions, but mostly in his eyes) of pure violence. And yes, he is articulate and intelligent, but the guy is completely poisonous.

    Honestly, when I was watching that video of Bundy, I was having a Rick moment:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbVvF5wWqf0

    Many people seem to be surprised that LIE's can understand and empathize with other people. People see us as evil robots because we don't display emotions easily. But this is not a good description of us at all. The fact is that we see emotions (and motivations) in people very clearly. (Some of my stories here should tell you that.) We actually have extremely high emotional intelligence.

    http://entjforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=132

    What confuses people is that WE DON'T CONSIDER OUR EMOTIONS WHEN MAKING DECISIONS, which can make us appear to be extremely cold and rational. But there is a big difference between not having emotions and not showing them.

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    I watched about five minutes of it and couldn't take anymore of it. I was just really disturbed. But I was thinking if I were to just see this guy in passing through a supermarket or something, not knowing who he was, he would seem fairly normal, if not maybe a little creepy, and I guess that's what disturbs me the most. I never want to leave my house again. There's been a few times I wish I wouldn't have seen something, and this is one of those times.

    I didn't get a violent eyes impression from him, but there was a time when he smiled when asked if he had been the one to murder those girls (or something like that) and he had this small barely visible snicker I thought that was kind of inappropriate and extremely disturbing...

    I was thinking Beta NF while watching it.

    I'm pretty sure Voldermort does that closing eyes thing in the HP movies. I was wondering where I had seen someone do that before, and that's where it is. Voldermort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ConcreteButterfly View Post
    he has violent eyes (!) ... from his eyes you could tell he was a very violent person
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    and he has flashes (micro-expressions, but mostly in his eyes) of pure violence
    this is what i (also) was referring when i said he gets a hard/cold look in his eyes at times. i've actually been surprised at people describing him seeming normal boy next door looking etc. to me, he looks "normal" with flickers of the deranged, and i notice the flickering far more than the "normal."

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    I'm pretty sure he's SLE-Se

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    this is what i (also) was referring when i said he gets a hard/cold look in his eyes at times. i've actually been surprised at people describing him seeming normal boy next door looking etc. to me, he looks "normal" with flickers of the deranged, and i notice the flickering far more than the "normal."
    Lol yeah. It's the same when you watch all those crime shows with husbands that abused and killed their wifes and it's always: He was so sunny and sweet and looked like a teddybear. How could she have possible predicted he's actually a monster?" And then they show the picture of an actual husband (the actor always looks cute) and he looks all sort of deranged and dangerous

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    i've listened to several recordings of him giving details to investigators as well as watched a lot of footage of his trial. my impression has been changing to SLE-Ti. i think that how thoughtful he comes across has possibly been giving the illusion of intuition.


    eta: unrelated to type, i am still not sure how to interpret bundy psychologically.

    i don't think it's that 'the monster' is the "real him" lurking beneath facades as i originally thought. i am not sure which of two below it is most like:

    1. bundy's personality has a partial dual nature: the 'rational mind' vs. 'the monster.' the rational mind maintains the most control generally, though as with most addictions, its control slips as the addiction is fed. if bundy had continued killing, it might have slipped more and more (or bundy might have been able to regain it) - his last killings seemed less controlled and more reckless, so his control may have been slipping there. the 'rational mind' facilitates the unleashing of 'the monster.' it not only pre-plans but maintains psychological distance from the victim (so as to dehumanize the victim as much as possible). it uses alcohol to urge 'the monster' out.

    sometimes when bundy describes himself as "normal" it is the 'rational mind' commenting as 'the monster' has been so locked away that he feels out of contact with it. sometimes when he tries to describe his crimes, he experiences a disconnect between the monster and the rational mind... he finds he can't get what he did into words and often says it is difficult to describe or talk about. it brings discomfort to do so, and the part of him that committed the crimes is so savage it can't be rationalized not even by bundy himself. but it is not as though there are two separate people in one personality as the rational mind is complicit in the monster's acts. bundy enjoys letting the monster loose.

    mainly this partial duality could be created out of necessity since he must hide what he is and has done publicly. feelings of shame (the gaze of society and its conventions as perceived by the individual) as well as discomfort (although not the same as genuine concern for others, a lingering something in his emotionality that is affected... that may wince at his deeds) would build the walls thicker. as he denies sadistic urges in his day-to-day life, it over time builds and reinforces the partial duality. the monster waits and grows in the shadows of his mind whispering to be released, but it must wait until the rational mind determines the right time/person/place.

    2. bundy over-emphasizes the extent to which he compartmentalizes when talking about himself. generally difficulty describing his crimes or struggling to remember particular details is part of his act. it may serve multiple purposes, such as trying to delay his execution, or trying to present himself as something that will be loathed and judged less. talking about himself in the third person or saying that it's like the person who commits these acts disappears into a crack in his consciousness, is all subterfuge. his consciousness is actually much more integrated than he lets on. there isn't a great distinction between his rational self and the monster. he can be excitedly recalling what he did to his last victim and fantasizing about what he will do to his next during ordinary conversation. he doesn't experience any discomfort about it at all. it can look like there is 'a monster' in there when he is being less rational or looking deranged... but such things reflect the natural fluctuations of his abnormal emotionality, which is sadistic in nature and lacking in a lot of the emotional spectrum.
    Last edited by inumbra; 08-26-2016 at 09:11 PM.

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    ok. i'm back to ILE-Ti.

    @SisOfNight i'm curious from this video alone if he sounds SLE to you?

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    ExTx

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    Quote Originally Posted by ConcreteButterfly View Post
    My guess is ENxJ

    Wikipedia:
    Theodore Robert Bundy
    (born Theodore Robert Cowell; November 24, 1946 – January 24, 1989) was an American serial killer, kidnapper, rapist, and necrophile who assaulted and murdered numerous young women and girls during the 1970s and possibly earlier. Shortly before his execution, after more than a decade of denials, he confessed to 30 homicides committed in seven states between 1974 and 1978. The true victim count remains unknown, and could be much higher.

    He exudes fakeness and when he is seeming to be reluctant to talk about the murders, he looks like he's about to start laughing. It's easy to see through. At least the iceman guy is telling the truth and not trying to put up any pretenses. Maybe my opinion is colored because I had read about this interview being questionable already but yeah.... Also Bundy killed in like the 70s? Where was he possibly finding violent, hardcore porn? The stuff you can find today is probably a thousand times worse.

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    SEE-Se

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    Quote Originally Posted by ConcreteButterfly View Post
    I got my ENTJ friend to watch the video in the OP and he said he has violent eyes (!) I was surprised because he rarely makes value judgments like that. He said from his eyes you could tell he was a very violent person. Does anyone else get that impression from him?
    You don't think that this looks like a violent person?


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