Ellen Degeneres

[IBTL]

Did anyone see on Ellen's show yesterday how she talked to this one audience member about not waiting too long in life to start having a serious relationship so that the audience member would still be able to open up and not be closed off?

[Olduvai]

This idea you have of hunter gatherers and gift based is not such a bad idea but you do lack some fundamentals in it. For example, Filatova, as far as I know, thought there was a fairly even based distribution of types.

well, I suppose that's where her and I would disagree

If you wanted to suggest that since Filatova IEE are a dying race then according to most what we know about evolution it would take a lot more time... unless a mass extinction occurred.

Homo sapiens have been around for quite some time, Gem:

All people today are classified as Homo sapiens. Our species of humans first began to evolve nearly 200,000 years ago in association with technologies not unlike those of the early Neandertals.

Around 200,000 years ago, Homo sapiens first appears in East Africa. It is unclear to what extent these early modern humans had developed language, music, religion etc. They spread throughout Africa over the following 50,000 years or so.According to proponents of the Toba catastrophe theory, the climate in non-tropical regions of the earth experienced a sudden freezing about 70,000 years ago, because of a huge explosion of the Toba volcano that filled the atmosphere with volcanic ash for several years. This reduced the human population to less than 10,000 breeding pairs in equatorial Africa, from which all modern humans are descended. Being unprepared for the sudden change in climate, the survivors were those intelligent enough to invent new tools and ways of keeping warm and finding new sources of food (for example, adapting to ocean fishing based on prior fishing skills used in lakes and streams that became frozen).
Around 80–100,000 years ago, three main lines of Homo sapiens diverged, bearers of mitochondrial haplogroup L1 (mtDNA) /A (Y-DNA) colonizing Southern Africa (the ancestors of the Khoisan/Capoid peoples), bearers of haplogroup L2 (mtDNA) / B(Y-DNA) settling Central and West Africa (the ancestors of Niger–Congo and Nilo-Saharan speaking peoples), while the bearers of haplogroup L3 remained in East Africa.
The "Great Leap Forward" leading to full behavioral modernity sets in only after this separation. Rapidly increasing sophistication in tool-making and behaviour is apparent from about 80,000 years ago, and the migration out of Africa follows towards the very end of the Middle Paleolithic, some 60,000 years ago. Fully modern behaviour, including figurative art,music, self-ornamentation, trade, burial rites etc. is evident by 30,000 years ago. The oldest unequivocal examples ofprehistoric art date to this period, the Aurignacian and the Gravettian periods of prehistoric Europe, such as the Venus figurines and cave painting (Chauvet Cave) and the earliest musical instruments (the bone pipe of Geissenklösterle,Germany, dated to about 36,000 years ago).[4]

In addition, as Alison George notes in a great article in New Scientist, there's now genetic evidence that a gene associated with human communication, FOXP2, might have spurred human symbolic thought 170 thousand years ago. Archaeologist Johan Lind told George that the "modern mind" might have actually emerged as early as 500 thousand years ago, with our ancestor Homo erectus. That would make sense, if we consider that Homo erectus used tools and fire.

For me

this is Wikisocion on "Merry" individuals:

• Lexicon: when discussing actions and joint activities they use expressions such as "From my point of view", "According to my understanding", "To my knowledge", "personal criteria", "it corresponds to my understanding" "I have concluded" "he insisted" and so on. They describe verbal communication in detail—how their intervention in the situation is transpiring or why it's not happening.

as I have said a number of times (in different ways) it just seems that you feel isolated, alone and misunderstood... but this does not mean you are the only IEE oe even one of very few.

I don't think I'm the lone IEE on this forum because I feel isolated, alone and misunderstood, I think I'm the lone IEE on this forum because I'm the lone IEE on this forum; if I come across another IEE around here I will type them IEE

Obstinate

what do you take "obstinate" to mean?

Is being utterly insufferable to all and being absolutely convinced you are right in your opinions consistent with being IEE as well, or is just generally poor form?

probably a bit of both

You can't talk about Socionics without talking about systems because, well, Socionics is a system. A classification system even. Very Ti.

and this is how I know you're not IEE

I think you need this: http://socionics.us/theory/information.shtml

nah

I say that because I read somewhere you said that Ti is understanding and Te is knowledge, and you have a Ti PoLR because you don't understand things, and that is so vague as to be useless. Knowledge about what? Understanding about what?

idk, I'm pretty sure I've seen Te versus Ti framed as empirical knowledge versus conceptual understanding, but perhaps I'm just imagining things

[gabrielle]

A family member loves her show, otherwise I would never watch it. Not saying that to be mean or anything. I just don't particularly find Ellen De Generes interesting. Maybe that will help to discern her type? i am an EIE.

As far as inter-type relations go, I'm wondering what that make her. In that vein, I find this thread and popular opinion about her interesting mainly because I don't share the going gaga over her enthusiasm. In fact, I would take having to be a guest on her show as an onerous chore. My Fe would make me be nice and probably only people who know me or pick up on subtle falseness would know it.

I can't even describe how I don't relate to her humour without coming across as very insulting. I've started a sentence about five times and gone,,,,"hmmm NO. I can't say that or pretty much every person who has posted their undying love for Ellen on this thread will drop vitriol and scorn on my head."

So, I'll just say this. What is so funny about vacuuming at the Oscars? People clean up afterward. Yesssss. So what

I wonder if this is Si related. If so then other ENFj and ENTjs would find her a big tedious yawnfest as well.

[Slacker]

Chris, you are horribly confused. Having Ti PoLR doesn't mean you can't talk about classification systems. It means you don't value them and that thinking in that way isn't a strength of yours, and you don't like situations where you're forced to do it.

Here's an example of what not valuing a classification system looks like: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...61#post1013261

I've given that advice to a ton of people around here, over the years.

Read the blog I sent you. It was written by an IEE, and has a great IEE description, and in true IEE form he never got around to finishing anything, but what is there is great.

[Slacker]

I've been trying to think about your type, Chris, and I'm not sure. I agree that you have weak Ti, and I believe you that it's unvalued. Your thinking seems more black/white than Ne, and you have a strong need to be seen as an authority, so I kind of wonder if you might be Gamma SF.

[Olduvai]

Chris, you are horribly confused. Having Ti PoLR doesn't mean you can't talk about classification systems. It means you don't value them and that thinking in that way isn't a strength of yours, and you don't like situations where you're forced to do it.

1. I don't think I ever said "Ti-PoLR means you can't talk about classification systems"
2. either way, doesn't "isn't a strength" kind of imply "can't really talk about"? and really, the PoLR is more than just "isn't a strength", it's "massive black hole in my psyche". if you've ever watched Duck Dynasty, Si Robertson is IEE and Phil Robertson is LSI, and I've heard Phil describe Si as being a "logic vacuum".

It was written by an IEE, and has a great IEE description, and in true IEE form he never got around to finishing anything, but what is there is great.

no it wasn't, no it doesn't, and you don't know what "true IEE form" actually looks like

I agree that you have weak Ti, and I believe you that it's unvalued.

good, I'm glad you're perceptive enough to notice that

and you have a strong need to be seen as an authority

it's not that I need to be seen as an authority, it's just that I want people to actually understand this stuff

so I kind of wonder if you might be Gamma SF.

lol, that's a new one! people around here have typed me ILE, SEI, EIE, and ILI; everything but my actual type, which is IEE

there's no need for you to speculate about my type, Slacker, I know I am IEE

[Slacker]

I've known I'm IEE for about 9 years longer than you've known about Socionics.

The PoLR isn't a "massive hole in your psyche." That would be something outside of the realm of Socionics.

And if you're going to speculate about others' types, you're going to have to get used to other people speculating about yours. Your sense that you can do it to others and others can't do it to you is the desire to be an authority I was talking about. Maybe that isn't Se and is just immaturity, I don't know.

[Slacker]

The reason people have typed you so many different ways is because nobody wants to type you like themselves, or in their quadra, so they try to type you as differently as themselves as they can. That's a pretty common situation with people who have personality issues. But I do think you are either Gamma SF or Delta NF, so you have me more in your corner than anyone else.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I miss Ellen's sitcom, it had a sort of edgier/cult quality to it... her talk show just bores me to tears with how inoffensive and vanilla it is.

The real Ellen isn't afraid to hurt other people's feelings, but she has this sort of persona/fake mask and personal pressure to be nice to american soccer moms or something. It's icky and manipulative and bothers me on a visceral level.

[gabrielle]

her talk show just bores me to tears with how inoffensive and vanilla it is.

The thing about it is I do find her personality irritating and you could say (in a way) offensive. Although, it's not like I'm up in arms about it because I can turn her off or walk away. It's the particular brand of how she is irritating and how she promotes and preaches that makes me gag. ie. "BE KIND" over and over as if it's an edict, with a butter wouldn't melt in my mouth sh-t eating grin on her Cover Girl face. It's gross.

The reason I find it gross is because I've been around on this planet for a while and come across this type of behaviour before. It's the woman who preaches niceness and acts all politically correct in your face, but if there is one little thing she doesn't like, she'll rip you apart in private. Basically, it is two-facedness and that is how she comes across - as a big sweater-vest wearing two-face.

Jerry Seinfeld has a similar expression and from what I've read he's a jerk. But his show was all inoffensive white-bread mundanity humour.

[Suz]

I miss Ellen's sitcom, it had a sort of edgier/cult quality to it... her talk show just bores me to tears with how inoffensive and vanilla it is.

The real Ellen isn't afraid to hurt other people's feelings, but she has this sort of persona/fake mask and personal pressure to be nice to american soccer moms or something. It's icky and manipulative and bothers me on a visceral level.

I remember that sitcom. I found it hilarious! I miss it too, but because I just thought her humor was so great.

I found both your and @gabrielle 's comments enlightening about the beta NF perspective because the very reasons you dislike her show are the reasons I love it. The inoffensive nature, the preaching of being kind. It's just so heartwarming for me to see.

I dont find her TV persona to be insincere. People are allowed to be however they want to be in their private lives. I dont think we know any of these people well enough to really comment. My belief is that it's pretty impossible to act a certain way unless you really believe it. One's inner motivations do ultimately shine through, and I dont think she would be designing a show that is so positive and uplifting unless she truly felt it in her heart. People are allowed to be upset, irritable, selfish, in their private life, at times. She is only human and doesn't mean her motivations aren't ultimately good.

[Suz]

The reason I find it gross is because I've been around on this planet for a while and come across this type of behaviour before. It's the woman who preaches niceness and acts all politically correct in your face, but if there is one little thing she doesn't like, she'll rip you apart in private. Basically, it is two-facedness and that is how she comes across - as a big sweater-vest wearing two-face.
.

Would you rather she humiliated that person in public for all to see?

[Slacker]

She's a human being, and human beings aren't perfect, but she tries to be professional when working. I loved her old show, and I don't watch much TV these days but if I did I'd probably watch her show.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

People are allowed to be upset, irritable, selfish, in their private life, at times. She is only human and doesn't mean her motivations aren't ultimately good.

I felt a little guilty for writing that, I like Ellen but I still can't help but feel she sold a lot of herself for more mansions and fame/power. Ellen personally inspired and helped me, and I thank her for that, but the Elite aren't above criticism or whatever. I still care about her or I wouldn't even bother to post... I'm sorry if I sounded too harsh and unforgiving about her darker nature, I've been told before I am way too harsh with other people about that stuff.

[gabrielle]

Would you rather she humiliated that person in public for all to see?

Of course not.

I'm talking about what I perceive as a lack of personal integrity. In order to have integrity, a person does not need to go to the extreme of humiliating someone else It's called having tact. It's a fine line and some people have difficulty with it. It is possible to share how you feel or think about something like values without being either cowardly or inordinately rude. All that is required is compassionate interpersonal tact (keeping someone else's personal dignity in mind and care) while still being real. She doesn't do either. I get no personal investment from her.

I remember that sitcom. I found it hilarious! I miss it too, but because I just thought her humor was so great.

I found both your and @gabrielle 's comments enlightening about the beta NF perspective because the very reasons you dislike her show are the reasons I love it. The inoffensive nature, the preaching of being kind. It's just so heartwarming for me to see.

I find it vapid and empty. Not that I'm against being "kind". But, for me that entails a lot of old world church sermon type of brimstone and fire walking across hot coals emotionally type of stuff and still be kind. What it does not mean for me is plastering cuteness in my face. You are correct. I guess it's a difference in quadra values.

I dont find her TV persona to be insincere. People are allowed to be however they want to be in their private lives.

The thing is that she definitely communicates that it is not okay to be certain ways and one of those ways is to not agree with all of her liberal beliefs. There is nothing like a dogmatic liberal to throw a cold water bath on anyone who dares to not agree with what is the latest colour band bracelet bandwagon right cause.

I dont think we know any of these people well enough to really comment.

That is true. But by the same token, we can't know everything about anyone, even those closest to us. That does not stop us from having perceptions, assessments, judgments and other interpersonal reactions. Isn't that partly what socionics is looking at? So...in that vein, I'm commenting. People are gonna comment....

My belief is that it's pretty impossible to act a certain way unless you really believe it. One's inner motivations do ultimately shine through, and I dont think she would be designing a show that is so positive and uplifting unless she truly felt it in her heart. People are allowed to be upset, irritable, selfish, in their private life, at times. She is only human and doesn't mean her motivations aren't ultimately good.

Yeah this is probably a quadra thing again. In my view, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

That is a bit dramatic.

I do believe Ellen has good intentions and is a good person at heart. She is trying too hard though. Also, she seems discontent This usually goes hand in hand with people who push and strive for others to be a certain way. So even though, she is wildly successful and people seem to love her, I feel sorry for her. That's my arm chair psychoanalyzing for the night. i should be embarrassed for it, but oh well.

[Suz]

I felt a little guilty for writing that, I like Ellen but I still can't help but feel she sold a lot of herself for more mansions and fame/power. Ellen personally inspired and helped me, and I thank her for that, but the Elite aren't above criticism or whatever.

oh, for sure...
And please dont feel guilty for writing that. I appreciate insights like that into the perspective of a person of another type. I am glad you were honest. Hey other people can irritate me for seemingly silly reasons too. I really do think these likes/dislikes are often socionic in nature.

[Suz]

I'm talking about what I perceive as a lack of personal integrity. In order to have integrity, a person does not need to go to the extreme of humiliating someone else It's called having tact. It's a fine line and some people have difficulty with it. It is possible to share how you feel or think about something like values without being either cowardly or inordinately rude. All that is required is compassionate interpersonal tact (keeping someone else's personal dignity in mind and care) while still being real. She doesn't do either. I get no personal investment from her.

I find it vapid and empty. Not that I'm against being "kind". But, for me that entails a lot of old world church sermon type of brimstone and fire walking across hot coals emotionally type of stuff and still be kind. What it does not mean for me is plastering cuteness in my face. You are correct. I guess it's a difference in quadra values.

The thing is that she definitely communicates that it is not okay to be certain ways and one of those ways is to not agree with all of her liberal beliefs. There is nothing like a dogmatic liberal to throw a cold water bath on anyone who dares to not agree with what is the latest colour band bracelet bandwagon right cause.

That is true. But by the same token, we can't know everything about anyone, even those closest to us. That does not stop us from having perceptions, assessments, judgments and other interpersonal reactions. Isn't that partly what socionics is looking at? So...in that vein, I'm commenting. People are gonna comment....

Yeah this is probably a quadra thing again. In my view, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

That is a bit dramatic.

I do believe Ellen has good intentions and is a good person at heart. She is trying too hard though. Also, she seems discontent This usually goes hand in hand with people who push and strive for others to be a certain way. So even though, she is wildly successful and people seem to love her, I feel sorry for her. That's my arm chair psychoanalyzing for the night. i should be embarrassed for it, but oh well.

Gabrielle, I definitely agree with you on many of these great points. I dont necessarily get the same impression from Ellen, but it could just be a matter of me having totally been oblivious to the aspects that have bothered you. However, if i weren't oblivious to those things, they would have bothered me too.

I hear you about the "being real' part. And about the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[Olduvai]

I've known I'm IEE for about 9 years longer than you've known about Socionics.

I've intimately known an IEE for about 20 years.

The PoLR isn't a "massive hole in your psyche." That would be something outside of the realm of Socionics.

I suppose calling it a "psychological blindspot" might be a more accurate and less dramatic way of describing the vulnerable function, but I don't think calling it a "massive hole in one's psyche" implies something outside the realm of socionics.

And if you're going to speculate about others' types, you're going to have to get used to other people speculating about yours.

Oh, I couldn't care less if people want to attempt to retype me, I think it's hilarious.

Your sense that you can do it to others and others can't do it to you is the desire to be an authority I was talking about.

I don't desire to be an authority, I simply desire correct typings.

Maybe that isn't Se and is just immaturity, I don't know.

I think it's just me not giving a fuck, which you would probably call immaturity.

If you want to see Se (more specifically, Se+Ti), just watch this video of Jase Robertson (SLE):

The reason people have typed you so many different ways is because nobody wants to type you like themselves, or in their quadra, so they try to type you as differently as themselves as they can.

Nah, I think it's just because most people here are horribly misguided.

But I do think you are either Gamma SF or Delta NF, so you have me more in your corner than anyone else.

Well, I'm glad you at least view Delta NF as a possibility; I suggest your read my posts, perhaps that will solidify your suspicions. Since you claim to be IEE, I also suggest consider how alike/different we are; maybe then you'll see why I disagree with your self-typing.

[Slacker]

I don't really care why you disagree with my self-typing. I don't consider you an authority, nor do I consider you knowledgable, and I have yet to find one person who does. So just do whatever you want and I'll join everyone else in ignoring you.

[Olduvai]

I don't really care why you disagree with my self-typing.

this is how I know you're closed-minded

I don't consider you an authority, nor do I consider you knowledgable, and I have yet to find one person who does.

and this is how I know you're ignorant

So just do whatever you want and I'll join everyone else in ignoring you.

and this how I know you're a coward

all said, you're definitely Ti/Fe, likely LII

[Slacker]

You need to put an irony warning on your posts.

[Park]

[OldPathWhiteClouds]

Ellen is an introvert, as admitted in this interview: http://www.today.com/allday/ellen-de...tion-1C9383852

[woofwoofl]

all said, you're definitely Ti/Fe, likely LII

LII party with Slacker and Raver at Snooki's house. Let's check the guest list...

[Olduvai]

Snooki

All those Se-egos in that house, no wonder she felt so outcasted during the first few episodes of season one...

I'll concede that LII for Snooki is far-fetched, but it makes sense if you observe the social dynamics. Furthermore, The Situation is undoubtedly SEE; he's an excellent example of the male variety.

[Radio]

ITT Slacker being badass as usual.

[Suz]

Ellen is an introvert, as admitted in this interview: http://www.today.com/allday/ellen-de...tion-1C9383852

Another piece of info in support of an IEE typing for her.

IEEs are often seen in socionics as the "introverted extraverts".

[Olduvai]

Another piece of info in support of an IEE typing for her.

IEEs are often seen in socionics as the "introverted extraverts".

1. you think "Ellen is an introvert" is evidence for her being an Intuitive Ethical Extrovert?
2. IEEs can be seen in socionics as "introverted extroverts", but so can any other extroverted type

[maniac]

I was thinking IEE but shes so awkward with emotions at least on her show.

[Beautiful sky]

Feeler rational ESE probably

[Sol]

ENTP

[darya]

IEE

[Beautiful sky]

Her overall energy doesn't seem to be Ep

[lynn]

ENFp

[Olimpia]

I'd agree with the IEE typing...

Her awkwardness with emotions is partly staged, partly stemming from her (likely) SX blindspot and (likely) being E6 (IMO).

[darya]

She's 6w7, that's why she's not so over the top EP. And yeah, no sx there.

[maniac]

ILE makes sense

[darya]

Ellen is radiating Fi.

[maniac]

Ellen is radiating Fi.

Where

Apparently she had a girlfriend that died, theres a youtube video or her talking about it and she barely shows any emotion

[Tiger tamer]

Where

Apparently she had a girlfriend that died, theres a youtube video or her talking about it and she barely shows any emotion

people can learn how to cope with things and speak about them without getting emotional + she is a public figure