Has Socionics Intertype Relation understanding helped your non-dual marriage?

[Eliza Thomason]

That's the question. Sometimes I am reluctant to talk Socionics with someone whose marriage I have figured is non-dual - particularly when its one of the more negative ones. I have told THREE conflictor couple-wives about Socionics and given them info on Conflictor relations, figuring that it would validate their experience and give them hope as far as the right things they have already done, and giving them hopeful ideas on how to get along, etc. Yet I think none have followed up on learning it (and I don't want to press the point!). That could be just because psychological learning is not their thing, or, perhaps it could be because they find it discouraging info?

So I wonder if anyone came on here, to learn that they are in Conflict Relations, or Supervision or something else less than ideal. This could be another kind of committed love partnership, but I am thinking particularly of long-term marriages, or "like"-marriages, that you have worked on and intended to stay in, for better or worse. And having children is a big incentive to stay when times are tough. So I wonder if reading you have an less-than-ideal Socionics Relation is too discouraging, or have you seen it as "facing reality" and been able to use the info to improve things like, avoiding issues you are not going to agree on, taking a wide berth around the PoLR, or taking tips from your partner's dual - doing what he/she would do).

I would be interested to know that.

[Hays]

Hi @Eliza Thomason. If I could dislike this particular post of yours I would as it somehow caused a pain inside of my head.

For real - you presented Socionics to three couples regarding your and I would like to stress 'your' diagnosis/theory/view that they are in a Socionics conflict relationship with one another.

This negative information about their partnership would most likely in no way be positive news but be discouraging info and hopefully info they can throw away and remove from their now contaminated minds.

Obviously they are still in these relationships so any negatives encountered must hopefully be equal or outweighed by positives.

Use of any potentially helpful Socionics ideas/information would likely be better suited for an unmarried or non partnered relationship I would think, where there's more leeway, less involvement or less at stake.
For I think that for this info to be of assistance in 'facing reality' the decision to leave would need to be already in play and definitely not based on your view/theory/diagnosis or provided information to any noteable degree.

Would yourself and partner appreciate if someone came and informed you both that your relationship was not an adequate one based on some view/theory or diagnosing technique which the other person holds and you are then handed over vague information on the subject?
Is this not perhaps a bit too interfering?

[Aylen]

Hi @Eliza Thomason. If I could dislike this particular post of yours I would as it somehow caused a pain inside of my head.

For real - you presented Socionics to three couples regarding your and I would like to stress 'your' diagnosis/theory/view that they are in a Socionics conflict relationship with one another.

This negative information about their partnership would most likely in no way be positive news but be discouraging info and hopefully info they can throw away and remove from their now contaminated minds.

Obviously they are still in these relationships so any negatives encountered must hopefully be equal or outweighed by positives.

Use of any potentially helpful Socionics ideas/information would likely be better suited for an unmarried or non partnered relationship I would think, where there's more leeway, less involvement or less at stake.
For I think that for this info to be of assistance in 'facing reality' the decision to leave would need to be already in play and definitely not based on your view/theory/diagnosis or provided information to any noteable degree.

Would yourself and partner appreciate if someone came and informed you both that your relationship was not an adequate one based on some view/theory or diagnosing technique which the other person holds and you are then handed over vague information on the subject?
Is this not perhaps a bit too interfering?

I would find it very intrusive unless I was specifically seeking such information and asked for it. I have been in, and watched bad relationships. When dealing with others I try to keep my mouth shut unless asked for suggestions on how to make it better. I just try to be an example since a lot of people don't appreciate information they are not ready to hear, whatever that information may be. You can still be true to your own values but don't make it about them. Share personal stories and how you deal with things. Be real. Offering socionics in a serious matter seems a bit cold and impersonal to me. I know someone in a bad relationship right now and I have not told them about socionics other than it is a personality theory. We did some tests together and I linked to info. If it is meant to be they will find what they need in it.

The last thing I would offer to someone, unfamiliar with socionics, is the suggestion that it is the best way to understand bad relationship. It is a theory so if they are unfamiliar with it then they might think I was a bit nuts. I don't even use it much with people who are very familiar with the theory. In general I just use humanspeak when we talk. Now and then we discuss the concept, briefly but off forum I don't use it much when interacting. I would rather feel them out and see what is the best course of action. If a woman or man is being physically or psychologically abused I would never consider to mention a theory on personality types, for example. If it was just normal conflict the people face due to life stress I might find a way to offer up one theory or another but it would be in my own words. If they seemed interested and questioned me on my perspective I would tell them but make it clear it is a theory and real people don't always match up to theory.

I have been fortunate to have LTR with people who matched my vibe and were what I needed at the time. When I was with the ILI I was very inwardly focused and so was he. We had fun together of course but at some point we just shut ourselves off from the outer world. We talked philosophy and read poetry and novels to each other at night. I was just coming out of a "partying" all the time phase. We did it together and it was really good while it lasted. We rarely fought after we both set our boundaries. It was a chill relationship when the party was over. Very comfortable. Too comfortable and after a few years we both needed to come out of ourselves but we couldn't do it together. So the universe intervened, because we were, metaphorically, locked into Newton's first law, and took us in other directions. I would never trade a moment of that experience with him. If someone had interfered with us I would have cut them off so fast (I actually did).

In hindsight all the "bad" led to some good outcome for me. Might not have felt good then but introspection helped me to put the pieces together and see how this led to that and nothing happened without reason. That is my belief anyway.

Unless a friend is in danger, or asks me for advice, it is best that I stay out of their relationships. I slip up now and then but try to redeem myself.

I will put it in words that any Christian can understand... you don't know god's plans for their lives... unless you are sure it is the right thing to do, best to just offer support and not lead people to make a choice one way or another that might not be for the higher good of all. It should ultimately be their choice to make. Other people's opinions can confuse everything. When I listen to too many people opinions it will make me doubt my own intuition. I am an advocate for self awareness and "the only way out, is through".

This is just my approach so if what Eliza is doing is working for her and not putting a wedge between her and her people then more power to her. lol I have been burned by getting too involved in other's relations. I do not want to be baited into biting that can of worms again. Even if they are conflictors they might have pretty good lives overall and love their partner. Love + Family > socionics. People in relationships will conflict now and then even if they are duals.

Maybe those people need couples counseling to learn to communicate. Some people may go as far to take socionics so seriously that they up and leave their family thinking the grass is going to be greener elsewhere. They don't realize they might be the one turning the grass brown, wherever they go, and socionics has no cure for that, if you are not willing to just change yourself. Other's tend to change to match the energy you are projecting either consciously or subconsciously.

If you love someone enough to begin a life with them then maybe there is something to learn from each other. I believe that love can conquer all but people change too. if it is not meant to be long term, or for a lifetime, it will eventually move you both in different directions. Even duals can fight and grow apart. What I wanted or found acceptable at 20 is not what I want or find acceptable in my life now but I made my own choices and didn't want others telling me who was or wasn't good for me.

*maybe being social last I just do not want anyone advising me about my relationships unless I ask for it.

[Eliza Thomason]

Hi @Eliza Thomason. If I could dislike this particular post of yours I would as it somehow caused a pain inside of my head.

For real - you presented Socionics to three couples regarding your and I would like to stress 'your' diagnosis/theory/view that they are in a Socionics conflict relationship with one another.

Aw!

I can see how what I wrote here is somewhat misleading because I did not give enough background info. It did not occur to me that it would sound as if I was saying their relationship was not adequate! But i will have to think about what you said because ONE of the three couples was someone I did not know as well. That would be the second ESFj-wife/INTp-husband couple.

The first ESFj/INTp couple I have been friends with since I was first married in my ill-fated marraige. I used to ask the ESFj wife all the time for advice with my communication problems (I was convinced this was our problem; I just needed to communicate better) and she majored in Communication in college and had a real can-do spirit about problems which was what I wanted to hear and believe and hope for, so much. And I learned a lot about communication from her! But it was not a communication problem in my case and even the grace of God is useless against the powerful will He gave us, and does not violate). Anyway, I have known her through thick in think over the years, even though we were only in the same town/state about 3 years, putting our husbands though college as newlyweds. Also the INFj-wife/ESTp husband couple I know a long time, related by marriage and also she is my close and very good freind. Both these wives know I am a complete champion of their marriage and of hope for their marriages even when things seem impossible. I truly believe that God gives the graces they need to get along and get through conflict. I have listened to complaints of all three wives about their husbands (its interesting that the ESFj wives have some identical complaints!) and I listen with total sympathy about their complaints but I never put their husbands down and never give up hope for them. I tell my two close friends often how blessed they are and how blessed their children are to be able to have an intact home, and for holidays to come around and they are not with their other parent for part or all of the holiday, and their kids do not have to divide their holidays in half instead of just relaxing at home on their school breaks. I never imply that their marriage is inadequate in any way; I give sympathy in their angst and I pray for them, believing they can thrive. So they know I stand in support and belief of them in their marriage.

This negative information about their partnership would most likely in no way be positive news but be discouraging info and hopefully info they can throw away and remove from their now contaminated minds..

I certainly hope it wasn't take as negative or worse, discouraging info about their marriages. It was meant to say, "You are not alone. Other people have these kinds of conflicts, and its natural and there is hope and you are already doing many things right" But perhaps they were afraid of learning bad news about their relationship, and so avoided learning it. And I did not want to press the point, not knowing where their hesitancy or disinterest was coming from and not wanting to probe.

Obviously they are still in these relationships so any negatives encountered must hopefully be equal or outweighed by positives..

There were always positives, not the least of which were their commitment to each other and to their family. All three do well when vacationing especially at new and faraway and/or nice places. Also on celebrating holidays and birthdays. Which makes me think that this is something that helps conflictor couples work - sharing adventures together. Yes, I think so. Being focused outward together must be part of it, as well as the practical problem solving that must be done - both are doing what must be done (find room key/ pay the bill/ find the beach, etc.) and working together in the newness and the positive atmosphere is much easier than day-to-day at home. Maybe..

Use of any potentially helpful Socionics ideas/information would likely be better suited for an unmarried or non partnered relationship I would think, where there's more leeway, less involvement or less at stake.
For I think that for this info to be of assistance in 'facing reality' the decision to leave would need to be already in play and definitely not based on your view/theory/diagnosis or provided information to any notable degree.

Perhaps "facing reality" sounds too foreboding. I mean like facing that your Conflictor is unlikely to see things your way in day-to-day matters, so, best to find ways to avoid/get-around those things, rather than think you can have a good discussion to hash them out - when the matter that could be as well solved separately. That type of thing.

Would yourself and partner appreciate if someone came and informed you both that your relationship was not an adequate one based on some view/theory or diagnosing technique which the other person holds and you are then handed over vague information on the subject?
Is this not perhaps a bit too interfering?

Well, I try very hard not to be interfering. I want to let people vent, because I know there is a need to express frustration, but I do not ask them personal details about the argument. I do think none of these thought I was considering their relationship inadequate, because I don't think that.

I see why I came across like I did here. But my real point was to wonder if anyone found the articles on Relationship types USEFUL. Not just those relationships generally thought of as being more problematic, but maybe particularly those other ones that have various unique conflicts like Kindred, Extinquishment (Contray), Benefit - etc, etc.

[Eliza Thomason]

Just for share.

I sometimes found (if I'm not wrong in typing people) a social control (you called it supervision) intertype in some marriages couple surround me. But they still can keep loyal each other in long-term, accept good and worse each other.

Interesting, I just had tea with my Supervisee ("Socially-controlled"?) friend. Actually she felt the control with her ex - who was extremely controlling to psychotic degree. She has the pleasure of being married to a normal man with shared values now! But there are some issues that come up that are Supervision related. I have decided to talk back about them in a Socionics context but NOT labeling it a Supervision Relationship. Best to start learning how her husband's type thinks vs. how she thinks, rather than analyze the relationship type. So I can make supportive comments that way.

Yes, even Socionics recommend duality relationship is better than any relationship, but in fact, all intertype have their own up-and-down too. This can be a good advice for people who haven't married yet to compare what intertype relations which is better and suit to what they needs, depends on their own perspective.

I have no experience with Socionics - I was already in love with my now husband when I discovered it. It seems to me that in many instances knowing about Socionics intertype relations could be a handicapped when you are unattached, particularly if you are waiting for your Dual to come around - because maybe one won't - becaseu maybe one isn't destined fro that. Maybe you are supposed to be with your Superego, or your Mirror, or your Conflictor - what have you - because what that person has to teach you and the way they can help you and the way you can help them is exactly what you/they need, both now and in the future.

I need to be careful for someone who already being married (and seems non-dual relationship). It doesn't mean that you must dishonest if you see the fact that it's not dual relationship. I just, I need some "careful plan" to wonder, what might happen. Is that information will make them upset or not? How to speak it? Should I do it or let other person (other sociotype) who will explain it in their own way? Or maybe it doesn't need to explain, but just "fix" it by placing another people to be their "bridge"? Family maybe, or some people who they can trust that it won't broke their loyalty marriage?

Well, there is generally no one else to explain Socionics but ME. And I have to explain the whole thing, it seems, since its not the local language! However, respect for the relationship no matter what type they are is always paramount to me and I never would want to give anyone cause to question their relationship. Even when my son was dating his Conflictor, then his Supervisee! Because I figured there must be something they are supposed to learn from each other, and I can never guess what that might be in someone else's life. And also the relationship it may last, and it may not. I do pray, though. My secret weapon.

Sometimes it useful for me to not only diagnose the marriage couple, but also all people who might affect their life. Their kids (it can identified after finishing high school, or equivalent education grade), their parent, their friend, their personal background, people demographic around them, then I'll know what should I do for that non-dual relationship.

Sounds like a good plan!

I apologize for my bad experience (maybe).biggrin:

~[/QUOTE] Oops - not sure what you mean by "bad experience".

[Eliza Thomason]

...


...In hindsight all the "bad" led to some good outcome for me. Might not have felt good then but introspection helped me to put the pieces together and see how this led to that and nothing happened without reason. That is my belief anyway. .

I believe that too!

...Unless a friend is in danger, or asks me for advice, it is best that I stay out of their relationships. I slip up now and then but try to redeem myself. .

...I will put it in words that any Christian can understand... you don't know god's plans for their lives... unless you are sure it is the right thing to do, best to just offer support and not lead people to make a choice one way or another that might not be for the higher good of all. It should ultimately be their choice to make. Other people's opinions can confuse everything. When I listen to too many people opinions it will make me doubt my own intuition. I am an advocate for self awareness and "the only way out, is through"..

This is all very wise.

...This is just my approach so if what Eliza is doing is working for her and not putting a wedge between her and her people then more power to her. lol I have been burned by getting too involved in other's relations. I do not want to be baited into biting that can of worms again. Even if they are conflictors they might have pretty good lives overall and love their partner. Love + Family > socionics. People in relationships will conflict now and then even if they are duals..

Thanks for the good thoughts, Aylen.

...Maybe those people need couples counseling to learn to communicate. Some people may go as far to take socionics so seriously that they up and leave their family thinking the grass is going to be greener elsewhere. They don't realize they might be the one turning the grass brown, wherever they go, and socionics has no cure for that, if you are not willing to just change yourself. Other's tend to change to match the energy you are projecting either consciously or subconsciously.

If you love someone enough to begin a life with them then maybe there is something to learn from each other. I believe that love can conquer all but people change too. if it is not meant to be long term, or for a lifetime, it will eventually move you both in different directions. Even duals can fight and grow apart. What I wanted or found acceptable at 20 is not what I want or find acceptable in my life now but I made my own choices and didn't want others telling me who was or wasn't good for me.

*maybe being social last I just do not want anyone advising me about my relationships unless I ask for it.

I don't generally. Though I have recently, and carefully, with my SEI freind becaseu she expressed frustration and I wanted to help her feel better and like it was fixable/changeable. But I have been known to sort of push the boundaries a bit in cases when I truly think I can be helpful (I can be up nights if someone has shared a problem that I think can be helped with a little shared insight). And I have been thanked for it far more than criticized for it... I blunder through with a lot of tact and care...

[saskiaza21]

Yes , i think it has helped myself
Coz , i've a crush to SEI male and closed with him

I know , benefit relation isn't marriage relation. but , it helps me to understand me and helps him to trigger his Ne

Ofc , we tend to share together , like joking , discussing , etc.