Results 1 to 39 of 39

Thread: Someone give me a clear difference between a Fi ego and Fe ego?

  1. #1
    maniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    2,748
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)

    Default Someone give me a clear difference between a Fi ego and Fe ego?

    I dont know which one i am. I care very much if i see someone who seems sad and lonely and no one seems to care about them.
    Most of the time im scared to approach them because i dont know them well and i dont know how i would approach them.

    There are a few exceptions where i dont feel bad. Like if i know this person is a whiny annoying little bitch who is ugrateful when people try bringing her into the group etc and then later whines about fb on how no one wants to be with them and all of their "'friends'" (they put friends in quotation marks) are fake, when they have several people contacting them.
    I dont think im good at raising an atmosphere in a group and frankly i would be scared to just be like HEY LETS DO THIS WOO or whatever it would take to raise the atmosphere. im bad at all emotional things with people overall but apparently im ethical.

    So yeah idk if im Fi ego or Fe. help

    How do you seperate introverted ethical types when both have 4D fi and 3D Fe?
    Last edited by maniac; 07-04-2016 at 11:05 AM.

  2. #2
    maniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    2,748
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)

    Default

    bump

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    256
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't know the answer to this, but would be interested in seeing what people think as I can relate to a lot of this. I think it's possible Fi might be a primary function of mine. I've noticed that I'll reflect on or absorb the sadness or other emotions of people, but I don't really do anything about it but just sort of internally understand it without expressing it.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    5,137
    Mentioned
    387 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    you may look at Fi/Te and Fe/Ti types examples and decide which are more likable for you - they are yours
    you communicate in Fe style, expressing feelings and not caring much how others will take it

    Naomi Watts - INFP, Nicole Kidman - LSI?, Rashida Jones - INFP, Gwyneth Paltrow - INFP
    Evangeline Lilly - ENTP, Kate Beckinsale - INTP, Claire Forlani - ENTP, Zoe Saldana - INTP
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  5. #5
    maniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    2,748
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    you may look at Fi/Te and Fe/Ti types examples and decide which are more likable for you - they are yours
    you communicate in Fe style, expressing feelings and not caring much how others will take it

    Naomi Watts - INFP, Nicole Kidman - LSI?, Rashida Jones - INFP, Gwyneth Paltrow - INFP
    Evangeline Lilly - ENTP, Kate Beckinsale - INTP, Claire Forlani - ENTP, Zoe Saldana - INTP
    I care in real life not as much on the nternet where most people are rude anyways and its not as personal as if i would walk up to you and be insensitive. and ok

  6. #6
    escaping anndelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    WA
    TIM
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp
    Posts
    6,338
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Fi is a static field element, similar to Ti. They both deal with how two or more things/ideas are connected together. With Ti, it's how things are explicitly connected, hence we get examples like formal logic. With Fi, it's how things are implicitly connected, but also on a personal feeling level. It's the orientation of one object/person/idea to another object/person/idea. Does the former like or dislike the latter? Is the former attracted or repulsed by the latter? Do the two resonate together? Or is there a split, a distance, between them. Our values and beliefs orient us to be attracted to some types of experiences, readings, understandings, while being opposed to, or repulsed by other experiences, readings, understandings. When two people are arguing, what orientations does each have? What values are in conflict? What beliefs or experiences of one are mismatching the other's? Strong, valued, conscious Fi pays attention to these kinds of things. It could just be one's own values/beliefs that one attends to, or it could involve trying to understand the other party's values/beliefs as well. And when it comes to abstract ideas or concrete objects, there's still a sense of trying to feel around what the orientations of it are. Even if that means anthropomorphizing an inanimate object. ("My computer hates me! It doesn't like that app/game.")

    Fe is a dynamic element of a personal feeling level. It's the e-motion, the energy in motion. The energy that moves someone, the quality of that energy, and how is that energy influencing others around it? Is it a negative energy agitating those around it? Is it a positive feeling that's encouraging others to laugh, smile, feel comfortable? Is the energy encouraging others into motion? Is there a break/pause in the energy at certain points? What do the pauses/breaks mean? Is the energy coming in cycles? What would be the best way to interrupt the energy? Or guide it towards a different energy? When we observe someone else, they are a black box. So how would we know what kind of energy is moving them? Body language and tone of voice, usually. We can focus on modulating our own energy, our own body language, or tone. Or we can analyse and try to effect the energy, body language, or tone of others, in an effort to influence their e-motion.

    XEE are heavily influenced by subconscious Fe, and consciously attend to Fi to make sense of their world, how something in their world is structured.
    XEI are heavily influenced by subconscious Fi, and consciously attend to Fe to understand the systems around them, and how these systems can be influenced.

    EXI can't help but attend to Fi structure, and usually become agitated or dismissive if Fe related info is constantly being brought up. Fe info interferes with the EXI's Fi structurings.
    EXE can't help but attend to Fe dynamics, and usually become agitated or dismissive if Fi related info is constantly being brought up. Fi info interfers with the EXE's Fe systems. Iow, it's not about the Fi structures between the individual elements of a system, it's about the system as a whole, and how to influence the energies within the system.

    If one is sure they are an Fx ego type, then
    * If they notice how they utilize both Fe and Fi infos fairly equally, they are likely XEX
    * If they notice a distinct imbalance of info preference between Fe and Fi, they are likely EXX.

    2 of my blog posts describing Fi and Fe.
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...elating-via-Fi
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ind-Reading-Fe
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

  7. #7
    maniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    2,748
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)

    Default

    God i still cant decide i definitely dont like it when people talk about things that are "cool" and when people encourage others to do tings because its "normal" and everyone else is doing it
    At least im not ExE

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    5,137
    Mentioned
    387 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by msnobody View Post
    i still cant decide
    One of reasons why I offered you to check IR with gamma. But you have refused, just because you wanted to be a fairy N type, despite reality shows to other.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  9. #9
    maniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    2,748
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    One of reasons why I offered you to check IR with gamma. But you have refused, just because you wanted to be a fairy N type, despite reality shows to other.
    I have never refused, i dont know what youre talking about. I can take screenshots of the message where i said "sure", and then you got mad and said i refused. and now you wont admit you saw wrong because youre old and your vision is getting bad and youre in an age crisis but its okay

  10. #10
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Fe perceives the emotional states in people "you look sad" Fi determines the proper maintenance of personal relationships "one should not leave people hungry "

    edited for phone oddity
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 07-04-2016 at 10:23 PM.

  11. #11
    maniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    2,748
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Fe perceives the emotional states in people "you look sad" Fi determines the proper maintenance of personal relationships "one should not leave people they love hungry "
    what do you mean "they love hungry"

  12. #12
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,970
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    You're talking about being N-dom versus F-dom, and irrational versus rational, but if you think Fe versus Fi will solve the typing issue, okay, let's see . . .

    Usually, 16T Fe-versus-Fi discussions devolve such that Fe-valuers describe Fi as seeming inconsistent or solipsistic and therefore invalid; and Fi-valuers describe Fe as seeming empty or synthetic and therefore fake.

    One popular idea is that Fi valuers have a very good sense of what they themselves feel, whereas Fe valuers don't necessarily have such ease in telling you what they're personally feeling. That's true of me (Fe ego) -- I might know I'm upset yet struggle to name the specific feeling and articulate why I'm feeling it. Yet I'm pretty good at recognizing what other people feel, and maybe at validating what they feel and why. I'm most interested in avoiding emotional chaos, and situations that foment that chaos.

    Meanwhile, although I can hop onboard with Fi to some extent, when I come into conflict with Fi-type people, I tend to think they've fixed on their own feelings and needs in ways that push everyone around them bend to accommodate them. I sometimes think they're acting in ways that contradict their stated values and goals. To me, this is chaos-making. I'm not saying my perception here is absolutely accurate. Rather, I'm explaining it to clarify my point of view in case it might ring true (or not) for you.

  13. #13
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,970
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by msnobody View Post
    what do you mean "they love hungry"
    I think she's saying "one should not leave people they love hungry" is a axiom someone could develop for how to treat other people, and that adopting axiomatic strategies like this is an Fi thing to do. To me, this kind of thing goes without saying, and it's too simplistic to be very useful.

  14. #14
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by msnobody View Post
    what do you mean "they love hungry"
    sorry I hate typing on my phone. I meant to say "you should not leave people hungry" ESI would say "don't do those things, don't leave them hungry, it's not allowed" Fi sets rules within relationships. "one does not do this or that"

  15. #15
    Jarno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    5,375
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by msnobody View Post
    bump
    you seem EII (INFj) to me.

  16. #16
    escaping anndelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    WA
    TIM
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp
    Posts
    6,338
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    One popular idea is that Fi valuers have a very good sense of what they themselves feel, whereas Fe valuers don't necessarily have such ease in telling you what they're personally feeling. That's true of me (Fe ego) -- I might know I'm upset yet struggle to name the specific feeling and articulate why I'm feeling it. Yet I'm pretty good at recognizing what other people feel, and maybe at validating what they feel and why. I'm most interested in avoiding emotional chaos, and situations that foment that chaos.
    How important is it to you to even name a feeling?

    Imo, it's not all that important to name the feeling, it's enough for me to figure out what parts of someone/thing I'm attracted to, and which parts I'm not.
    I do feel 'angry' and after a bit of agitation and ranting and raving I'll recognize that I'm feeling 'anger', but "anger" doesn't identify anything useful. Identifying it might make me look to see what it is that is angering me. And from there I can build a 'structure/model' of the situation/event to help me better understand the situation/event. But I can do that without labeling the emotion.

    As for altering my 'anger', I'll resort to (Si) in the form of things like deep breathing, walking to get the energy out, and other self soothing activities.

    As for emotional chaos, my interest is more in understanding what's causing it than anything else. This i consider a fault of mine. A person will be upset, ranting/crying to me, and I'll be asking questions about what happened, what exactly did the person say, what was going on when they said it. I'll get downright nosey and personal. I KNOW it's inappropriate and that I should be focused on validating their feelings or soothing them. But I'm way to curious...aka nosey. ... I might say things like "that's a normal thing to be upset about". But mostly I'll try to help them perceive the situation in a slightly different light, or in a 'fuller' way, as a way of helping to ease their negative feelings. (Note: i realize much of this is the combo of Ne, Fi, Te, Fe.)

    What do you do/think in such situations? When a person comes to you upset or crying?
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

  17. #17
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Fe types will provoke for a reaction, so that they can sense the object's emotional state and react accordingly, Fi doesn't. Fi wears their heart on their sleeve but not to the purpose of provoking a response but to express their own discontent. Fi types don't like being provoked and Fi types much like comfort and subdued environment

  18. #18
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    How important is it to you to even name a feeling?

    Imo, it's not all that important to name the feeling, it's enough for me to figure out what parts of someone/thing I'm attracted to, and which parts I'm not.
    I do feel 'angry' and after a bit of agitation and ranting and raving I'll recognize that I'm feeling 'anger', but "anger" doesn't identify anything useful. Identifying it might make me look to see what it is that is angering me. And from there I can build a 'structure/model' of the situation/event to help me better understand the situation/event. But I can do that without labeling the emotion.

    As for altering my 'anger', I'll resort to (Si) in the form of things like deep breathing, walking to get the energy out, and other self soothing activities.

    As for emotional chaos, my interest is more in understanding what's causing it than anything else. This i consider a fault of mine. A person will be upset, ranting/crying to me, and I'll be asking questions about what happened, what exactly did the person say, what was going on when they said it. I'll get downright nosey and personal. I KNOW it's inappropriate and that I should be focused on validating their feelings or soothing them. But I'm way to curious...aka nosey. ... I might say things like "that's a normal thing to be upset about". But mostly I'll try to help them perceive the situation in a slightly different light, or in a 'fuller' way, as a way of helping to ease their negative feelings. (Note: i realize much of this is the combo of Ne, Fi, Te, Fe.)

    What do you do/think in such situations? When a person comes to you upset or crying?
    I feel right away if I'm angry and often know why.

  19. #19
    escaping anndelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    WA
    TIM
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp
    Posts
    6,338
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    sorry I hate typing on my phone. I meant to say "you should not leave people hungry" ESI would say "don't do those things, don't leave them hungry, it's not allowed" Fi sets rules within relationships. "one does not do this or that"
    Fi is a type of information, not an action.
    Yes, a person might use Fi info in considering what rules to set within a relationship, but those rules can stem from other types of information as well.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

  20. #20
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Fi is a type of information, not an action.
    Yes, a person might use Fi info in considering what rules to set within a relationship, but those rules can stem from other types of information as well.
    that was an example of use of Fi

  21. #21
    escaping anndelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    WA
    TIM
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp
    Posts
    6,338
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Fi types don't like being provoked and Fi types much like comfort and subdued environment
    I'm sorry, are you saying that SEE/ESI don't provoke and prefer comfort and subdued environments?
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

  22. #22
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    I'm sorry, are you saying that SEE/ESI don't provoke and prefer comfort and subdued environments?
    oh I have think about this..edit

    There were twice that I've seen ESI provoke aggressively to get someone to acknowledge their wrong doing, but I still don't think it was provoking for a certain emotional reaction, it was just pushing them into a corner to make them look bad, incapable

  23. #23
    escaping anndelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    WA
    TIM
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp
    Posts
    6,338
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    that was an example of use of Fi
    I know.
    I think my problem is in how it was worded. It's not just Fi that rules can be set from, and not all Fi ego types do it.
    Though, on a personal note, I do have certain things I crave in a relationship, and certain things that I won't tolerate in it. For example, last night i was talking with a friend of mine who I'm worried about because she has so many health problems, works her butt off then comes home to take care of her disabled (but functioning) husband and her two kids, cooks and cleans and runs everyone to their appointments, etc. The husband has the ability to help around the house, and the children are old enough to do chores (10+yo). But the husband doesn't want the kids helping, refuses to help around the house (it's women's work), spends money on ornamental plants, and has recently told her that she needs to get a second job so they have more money. My gut reaction was "Hell No!"

    Thankfully he's not my husband, or i'd have kicked him out a while back.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

  24. #24
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    I know.
    I think my problem is in how it was worded. It's not just Fi that rules can be set from, and not all Fi ego types do it.
    Though, on a personal note, I do have certain things I crave in a relationship, and certain things that I won't tolerate in it. For example, last night i was talking with a friend of mine who I'm worried about because she has so many health problems, works her butt off then comes home to take care of her disabled husband and her two kids, cooks and cleans and runs everyone to their appointments, etc. The husband has the ability to help around the house, and the children are old enough to do chores (10+yo). But the husband doesn't want the kids helping, refuses to help around the house (it's women's work), spends money on ornamental plants, and has recently told her that she needs to get a second job so they have more money. My gut reaction was "Hell No!"

    Thankfully he's not my husband, or i'd have kicked him out a while back.
    The example was from dominant EII and ESI those are Fi base types. You are expressing Fi values "you shouldn't work too hard" thus you have a hard time with her working too hard. The above highlight is an expression of a reaction out of that value system. It's as good as saying "I worry about my friend and I don't think her husband should let her work too hard" That you observe him letting her makes you establish a rule. Now it goes back to you "If it were me" as in if the rule was applied to my relationship "it wouldn't fly well"

    Therefore again an Fi rule "in a relationship one's husband shouldn't (this is strictly from Ne perspective) allow the wife to do x"

  25. #25
    escaping anndelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    WA
    TIM
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp
    Posts
    6,338
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    The example was from dominant EII and ESI those are Fi base types. You are expressing Fi values "you shouldn't work too hard" thus you have a hard time with her working too hard. The above highlight is an expression of a reaction out of that value system
    Now see, that phrasing didn't bother me. It's just that people can set Te based rules for a relationship, Fe based rules, Se based rules, etc. (of course their all based off of underlying value systems and hence related to Fi, but not necessarily the way it was phrased, and not necessarily Fi base types.)

    I'm not attacking, just trying to refine, i guess. I'll shut up about it now. Sorry for the confusion.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

  26. #26
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Now see, that phrasing didn't bother me. It's just that people can set Te based rules for a relationship, Fe based rules, Se based rules, etc. (of course their all based off of underlying value systems and hence related to Fi, but not necessarily the way it was phrased, and not necessarily Fi base types.)

    I'm not attacking, just trying to refine, i guess. I'll shut up about it now. Sorry for the confusion.
    Those are not Te base rules though

    Te is about logic of action. For instance "It's more efficient for the wife to go to work because she makes more money"

    I'm not sure if Se sets rules, it's a perception function.

    Try to calmly reread things Ann, I'm not invalidating you. I'm adding a perspective.

  27. #27
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    SEER ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,899
    Mentioned
    735 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by uncivilized View Post
    I don't know the answer to this, but would be interested in seeing what people think as I can relate to a lot of this. I think it's possible Fi might be a primary function of mine. I've noticed that I'll reflect on or absorb the sadness or other emotions of people, but I don't really do anything about it but just sort of internally understand it without expressing it.
    This might just be empathy and any type can experience it. If you are greatly affected by other people's feelings and/or it happens a lot, it does not necessarily point to Fi. Fi does not seem to be about other people's feelings. It is more about their own. Their strong feelings of attraction/repulsion, like/dislike. More likely to hold on to a moral code because of how they feel about something. I can't speak for other Fe egos but I can ignore any moral qualms I have if the action will produce the greater good.

    I really relate to what @anndelise says here. Since I am consciously aware of both. If I am not I will take a step back until I sort it. I am even more aware of how I both influence and take on other people's feelings for me. I once thought I was "in love" because the person had such strong feeling for me that I had assumed it was my own. They were an Fe lead, ftr. Once I was away from them I realized they were not my feelings. They belonged to him and they were powerful. Knowing this I have been able to recognize when I am feeling my own feelings or someone else's. I have absorbed the feelings of other's all my life. I had someone help me learn to distinguish but even after that I was able to be sucked in by the feelings of others. It is one of the reasons I seclude myself so much. I need time to rebalance and clear my head. I am getting better at catching myself get caught up in emotions of others.

    * If they notice how they utilize both Fe and Fi infos fairly equally, they are likely XEX
    I believe it was you who was trying to figure out if you were ILI or IEI once? If this is the case and you recognize it, you might want to give IEI more consideration.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  28. #28
    escaping anndelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    WA
    TIM
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp
    Posts
    6,338
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Those are not Te base rules though

    Te is about logic of action. For instance "It's more efficient for the wife to go to work because she makes more money"
    Exactly, and it's still considered a rule for the relationship that isn't Fi based. Which was my point.

    I'm not sure if Se sets rules, it's a perception function.
    Great, so you no longer perceive it as force, power, etc?


    Try to calmly reread things Ann, I'm not invalidating you. I'm adding a perspective.
    I am calm.
    And i was adding the perspective that it's not just Fi that sets rules for relationships. Nor that all Fi ego types do this. Hence why i said 'refining'.
    My last post was to try to let you know that all's good on my side, since it feels like you often think that any criticism or disagreement is attacking you. I was just trying to make it clear that i was just conversing, not attacking.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

  29. #29
    escaping anndelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    WA
    TIM
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp
    Posts
    6,338
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I believe it was you who was trying to figure out if you were ILI or IEI once? If this is the case and you recognize it, you might want to give IEI more consideration.
    Since this was after your quoting of me, I'm not sure if it's to me or to uncivilized.
    If to me, I'm not the one that was trying to figure out between ili or iei.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

  30. #30
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Great, so you no longer perceive it as force, power, etc?
    It's partly to do with force yes. I'll explain why. My mom's neighbor is ILI. Her husband is SEE. When he first met her he was with a group of 4 friends. He told them "she's mine, no one try to compete for her with me" (steak the territory), then she played cat and mouse game with him, rejecting his proposals and advances. He beat up all men who tried to pursue her for her hand. After two years of this she "fell in love" and they got married because he proved himself reliable.

    I gathered a lot of information by asking her about her relationship and by observing what they say to each other. There are a lot of things that I don't like. I would never date a man who beat up someone else for me. I can't stand violence. It's wrong.

  31. #31
    escaping anndelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    WA
    TIM
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp
    Posts
    6,338
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    It's partly to do with force yes. I'll explain why. My mom's neighbor is ILI. Her husband is SEE. When he first met her he was with a group of 4 friends. He told them "she's mine, no one try to compete for her with me" (steak the territory), then she played cat and mouse game with him, rejecting his proposals and advances. He beat up all men who tried to pursue her for her hand. After two years of this she "fell in love" and they got married because he proved himself reliable.
    So then, based on that, what kind of Se based rule do you think was set for the relationship?
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

  32. #32
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    So then, based on that, what kind of Se based rule do you think was set for the relationship?
    None, that I can think of unless you have something to share, he found her attractive so he wanted her. The only objective for him was to have her

  33. #33
    escaping anndelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    WA
    TIM
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp
    Posts
    6,338
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    None, that I can think of unless you have something to share, he found her attractive so he wanted her. The only objective for him was to have her
    It sounds like he had set the rule of "you're mine", and "if other guys pursue you I will beat them up".

    Other people might say that much of the power roles of dominance/submission would fall under Se type of rules based on who has the power to do what, and who submits.


    Personally, I think force is a by-product of Se, but not primary Se info. If Se is about the concrete objects, and/or physical details of an object/person, then some Se based rules might include things like how the other partner is supposed to look, how they will live materially (type of house, type of car, type of decor, etc), etc.

    Admittedly, all of these involve a person's values, attractions/repulsions, and as such related to Fi. But no element functions in isolation, so not just Fi, and not necessarily Fi ego.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

  34. #34
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    It sounds like he had set the rule of "you're mine", and "if other guys pursue you I will beat them up".

    Other people might say that much of the power roles of dominance/submission would fall under Se type of rules based on who has the power to do what, and who submits.


    Personally, I think force is a by-product of Se, but not primary Se info. If Se is about the concrete objects, and/or physical details of an object/person, then some Se based rules might include things like how the other partner is supposed to look, how they will live materially (type of house, type of car, type of decor, etc), etc.

    Admittedly, all of these involve a person's values, attractions/repulsions, and as such related to Fi. But no element functions in isolation, so not just Fi, and not necessarily Fi ego.
    hum let me think about this

    He had claimed her as his territory and he was defending everyone else against that territory. Is saying "this is mine" a rule? it's taking an object one likes. Maybe the like is an expression of Fi but so much Se "it's shiny and pretty and fun, so I have to take it because I'll love it more" a belief almost.

  35. #35
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    SEER ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,899
    Mentioned
    735 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Since this was after your quoting of me, I'm not sure if it's to me or to uncivilized.
    If to me, I'm not the one that was trying to figure out between ili or iei.
    Not to you.

    FTR, you are clearly an Fi ego, in my perception.

    Edit: If anyone happened to catch the post I made after this one, I deleted because it felt too personal. I guess that is how I can experience Fi.
    Last edited by Aylen; 07-05-2016 at 02:14 AM.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  36. #36
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,970
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    How important is it to you to even name a feeling?

    Imo, it's not all that important to name the feeling, it's enough for me to figure out what parts of someone/thing I'm attracted to, and which parts I'm not.
    I do feel 'angry' and after a bit of agitation and ranting and raving I'll recognize that I'm feeling 'anger', but "anger" doesn't identify anything useful. Identifying it might make me look to see what it is that is angering me. And from there I can build a 'structure/model' of the situation/event to help me better understand the situation/event. But I can do that without labeling the emotion.

    As for altering my 'anger', I'll resort to (Si) in the form of things like deep breathing, walking to get the energy out, and other self soothing activities.

    As for emotional chaos, my interest is more in understanding what's causing it than anything else. This i consider a fault of mine. A person will be upset, ranting/crying to me, and I'll be asking questions about what happened, what exactly did the person say, what was going on when they said it. I'll get downright nosey and personal. I KNOW it's inappropriate and that I should be focused on validating their feelings or soothing them. But I'm way to curious...aka nosey. ... I might say things like "that's a normal thing to be upset about". But mostly I'll try to help them perceive the situation in a slightly different light, or in a 'fuller' way, as a way of helping to ease their negative feelings. (Note: i realize much of this is the combo of Ne, Fi, Te, Fe.)

    What do you do/think in such situations? When a person comes to you upset or crying?
    It's vitally important to me to put a name to what I'm feeling. Otherwise, my emotions can paralyze me. I can't seem to come up with any solutions at all until I put more clarity around a problematic state of being.

    If someone comes to me upset or crying, I guess I want to know what they think will be helpful. If I don't have a good sense for that, or I feel like my efforts aren't on the mark, I might say so. I might ask them if they'd rather I listen, or what. When someone deals with my own upset by asking lots of questions about how I got that way, I sometimes have to work hard to remind myself they're not trying to imply that I need to justify my feelings to them, or that they aren't looking for a reason to say I'm wrong.

     
    I have a friend right now about to give birth who is being treated terribly by her doctors, and I've known all along this would happen. So I'm one of the people she turns to to explain the latest thing that's going wrong with this bullshit medical situation.

    In today's installment, I listened to all she said and acknowledged the accuracy of her perceptions and the validity of her point of view and her desires and disappointments. I told her that no matter how the birth proceeds, nothing in this scenario is about her being a failure or not doing all she could, that she's caught up in a system that is essentially anti-woman and doesn't treat birth as a natural process, and it's wrong, and I'm sorry she's experiencing that.

    I also advised her, once again, to hire a doula even if it's not going to be a crunchy-granola birth, because she and her husband will benefit from having an advocate in the hospital and should be free to focus on themselves and their baby. And I bought a bunch of important stuff from her baby registry that no one got her (diaper pail! bottles! come on, people, these are basics) and that she'll need immediately.
    Last edited by golden; 07-06-2016 at 03:18 AM.

  37. #37
    escaping anndelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    WA
    TIM
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp
    Posts
    6,338
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    It's vitally important to me to put a name to what I'm feeling. Otherwise, my emotions can paralyze me. I can't seem to come up with any solutions at all until I put more clarity around a problematic state of being.

    If someone comes to me upset or crying, I guess I want to know what they think will be helpful. If I don't have a good sense for that, or I feel like my efforts aren't on the mark, I might say so. I might ask them if they'd rather I listen, or what. When someone deals with my own upset by asking lots of questions about how I got that way, I sometimes have to work hard to remind myself they're not trying to imply that I need to justify my feelings to them, or that they aren't looking for a reason to say I'm wrong.
    Most of my understanding of Fe comes primarily from the ieis i get to talk to. I don't really have any exe's to ask questions of or share stories to aid my understandings. Thank you for sharing the above, and the story. I bet your friends feel way more validated and cared for than mine. And I'm glad your friend in the story has you on her side. Did she get the doula?
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

  38. #38
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,970
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Most of my understanding of Fe comes primarily from the ieis i get to talk to. I don't really have any exe's to ask questions of or share stories to aid my understandings. Thank you for sharing the above, and the story. I bet your friends feel way more validated and cared for than mine. And I'm glad your friend in the story has you on her side. Did she get the doula?
    1. Friends feeling cared for. Not necessarily! I expect it's a matter of personal styles dovetailing, and I've always found you to be a very sympathetic person. I think your friends probably know that this is your way of understanding where they're coming from?

    2. Doula. She said she's applying for one today through a kind of doula clearinghouse. We'll see if she actually does, though. She's afraid of making waves in the hospital, I think. She feels like she has to just go along with everything.

  39. #39
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,970
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Person View Post
    While there are some pretty good concrete examples of Fe here, this is a quite limited take on the IE itself. Ime, plenty of types will not attend to these types of information. Fe is a whole orientation to the external realm of feeling values, while is the subjective take on feeling. Both are aiming for opposite perspectives, and it is essential to take into consideration all feeling types from a large sample--as you'll find lots of feelers to not fit your definitions.
    A good point.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •