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Thread: "Brexit" and the EU

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    Default "Brexit" and the EU

    What are your guys' thoughts? I'm especially curious to know the opinions of those from the EU and the UK.
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    I would vote exit as well. But we are deep in shit now so I guess it never gonna happen.
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    One thing for sure, suicide rates will increase here even more

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    I think it was a mistake, they should have remained in the EU. Also, the referendum itself was a mistake. This was not a decision suitable for a popular vote. The Brexit will weaken the position of the united Europe against America and Asia. But at the same time, I wish the separation to be carried out consequently: no concessions for the British, they should be treated like any other non-EU country in trade and politics. Any other reaction would only increase the risk of more countries leaving the union. What I'd like to see in the near future would actually be a dissolution of the UK, with Scotland joining the EU again and Northern Ireland fusing with the Republic of Ireland (even though this may be a bit unlikely). In one way or another, they will pay for this decision.

    On the bright side, the European Parliament might have to deal with less quarrels once the British are gone.
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    A return to nationalism... I dream of a world where every country follows the North Korean model of life. This is real progress toward shrinking the world and building more walls.

    ^ Was that overly dramatic of me.

    "Something inexpressively lovely and wonderful advances through the crystal, nearer, nearer. And, oh, inexpressively terrifying. For if it were to touch you, if it were to seize you and engulf you, you'd die; all the regular, habitual daily part of you would die … one would have to begin living arduously in the quiet, arduously in some strange, unheard of manner."


     






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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa3s View Post
    In one way or another, they will pay for this decision.
    Yes. In one way, and another, and then some. So will we, the EU. Perhaps even more than UK (like, in terms of security - interesting how the only major currency that's not plummeting down right now is Russian ruble...) I've read somewhere today that this is going to be the most expensive divorce in history. Both sides will get the other side of it weakened.
    Unfortunately, I don't believe Brexit will promote the integration of the remaining 27 countries; on the contrary, I'm afraid that given the spreading populist, nationalist tendencies in many EU countries, the fear of further disintegration will - ironically! - paralyze any move towards integration.

    For a number of reasons, I am genuinely and deeply saddened by this development.
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    Only idiots have voted for "EXIT". Various farm scrubs, old farts and other uneducated scum. Your usual clientelle of ultra conservative parties if you will.

    To put "god and country" above the future, above the money, above the betterment of future is selfish and medieval as fuck. It's sad to see that ~50% people still live in the middle ages fml. To sacrifice the future generations and the unity just...just because of "god and country", "pride" etc...UGH.

    It's even worse. ~80% young people voted "STAY" which means that even in the middle run, this decision is self defeating. Really, what's the point?

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    ISIS 'expresses joy' over economic turmoil created by Brexit vote as terror group calls for attacks on Berlin and Brussels to 'paralyse' Europe
    The ISIS message reportedly appeared on an encrypted messaging service
    It 'urged jihadists to strike in Berlin and Brussels' following historic vote
    ISIS said to have 'expressed joy' over economic chaos caused by Brexit...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3658497/ISIS-expresses-joy-economic-turmoil-created-Brexit-vote-terror-group-calls-attacks-Berlin-Brussels-paralyse-Europe.html

    It is obvious those in favor lacked any foresight.

    "Something inexpressively lovely and wonderful advances through the crystal, nearer, nearer. And, oh, inexpressively terrifying. For if it were to touch you, if it were to seize you and engulf you, you'd die; all the regular, habitual daily part of you would die … one would have to begin living arduously in the quiet, arduously in some strange, unheard of manner."


     






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    I am not a political person at all and I don't systematically vote unless it's to get a new president. But I have my opinion. The UK is a strong and rich country. This EU participation was a costly experience. They ended up getting all the Eastern Europe invade London and around. Latvia for plumbery, Poland for hotels etc, salaries of average British people went down. Also the UK lost its independency in political decisions and has strictly no international impact overall. There is a unique European decision, basta. EU controls everything, inner and outer politics. It's great to have equal laws but in practice it does not work. The Brexit result was predictable. The other thing that it will cost a lot to get out of there but ideolody always costs a lot. All the empires and unions are fading at one point of time.... Romans, Charlemagne, USSR... and EU now.
    PS Lol @nondescript I guess I am an idiot.
    Last edited by Persephone; 06-24-2016 at 08:45 PM. Reason: PS2 the UK people I know think the same
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    As I see it, the UK voted to leave the EU for all the wrong reasons. The anti-EU sentiment that can be found all over Europe is the result of the European project being hijacked by a bunch of white collar criminals that implemented 30 years of neo-liberal economic policies, which in many EU countries has marginalized large numbers of people and created vulnerable groups. Guess what? The UK was perhaps the most neo-liberal country of the EU, so if the British (or should I say, the English and Welsh) think they are going to be better off without the EU, they are going to be in for a nasty surprise.

    At least elsewhere in Europe politicians are slowly, very slowly, beginning to realize that marginalizing large numbers of people is what is driving these people in the arms of people such as ****** and Mussolini and their modern counterparts. They are beginning to realize that promotional campaigns in favor of the EU aren't working, because you can fool some of the people all the time, and all people some of the time, but not all people all the time. Real results are required, which in return require dramatic changes to the ways the EU is set up and operates.

    But it will not work. The EU leadership is still thinking in a modernistic mode (the bourgeois-capitalist mode of the Enlightment), while western culture is in the phase of completing the transition to the postmodern age. Ask yourself: how did the Western World make the transition from the feudal to the modern age, and you'll know the answer of things to come.
    Last edited by consentingadult; 06-24-2016 at 09:34 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anglas View Post
    If they vote Trump into office then we will soon regain our higher status.

    "Something inexpressively lovely and wonderful advances through the crystal, nearer, nearer. And, oh, inexpressively terrifying. For if it were to touch you, if it were to seize you and engulf you, you'd die; all the regular, habitual daily part of you would die … one would have to begin living arduously in the quiet, arduously in some strange, unheard of manner."


     






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    70,000 sign petition for London to become independent and rejoin the EU

    ...and counting. Aww! Not that it's serious but I kind of want to hug each and every one of them.
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    Oddy this has me feeling pretty hollow, yet I have some anxiety there, right beneath the surface. A sense of impending doom that I can't shake. I guess I am waiting for something to happen that will be a release of all this really tight, fearful energy that so many people have been pushing out into the world. It seems that many people are going to be experiencing a huge self fulfilling prophecy, bringing about the very things they fear most.

    I don't have a depressed feeling exactly but something. Seems I am more affected by global events than the smaller events that do not hold global implications. It takes more to get my attention. It is interesting because I only found out about all this last night when it was done. I may have heard something but it didn't register until now. I remember my dad talking to my mom about the state of Greece these days but even that did not have the same effect on me even though I have family there. This feels huge in comparison.

    "Something inexpressively lovely and wonderful advances through the crystal, nearer, nearer. And, oh, inexpressively terrifying. For if it were to touch you, if it were to seize you and engulf you, you'd die; all the regular, habitual daily part of you would die … one would have to begin living arduously in the quiet, arduously in some strange, unheard of manner."


     






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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Oddy this has me feeling pretty hollow, yet I have some anxiety there, right beneath the surface. A sense of impending doom that I can't shake. I guess I am waiting for something to happen that will be a release of all this really tight, fearful energy that so many people have been pushing out into the world. It seems that many people are going to be experiencing a huge self fulfilling prophecy, bringing about the very things they fear most.

    I don't have a depressed feeling exactly but something. Seems I am more affected by global events than the smaller events that do not hold global implications. It takes more to get my attention. It is interesting because I only found out about all this last night when it was done. I may have heard something but it didn't register until now. I remember my dad talking to my mom about the state of Greece these days but even that did not have the same effect on me even though I have family there. This feels huge in comparison.
    You sound like Justine from Lars von Trier's movie Melancholia. Typical IEI/ILI response to impending but unavoidable disaster:

    http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.nl...n-by-ilis.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    ^ Was that overly dramatic of me.
    i'm sorry for calling your trump video overly dramatic

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    You sound like Justine from Lars von Trier's movie Melancholia. Typical IEI/ILI response to impending but unavoidable disaster:

    http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.nl...n-by-ilis.html
    I found that movie kind of disturbing.

    I don't really feel pessimistic about the future even if it may sound like it sometimes. I just feel sort of, "hollow" at the moment...waiting... I know I am going to be fine. My family is going to be fine but I do seem to empathically take on the collective energy when it reaches a critical mass and it is oppressive at the moment even though some are celebrating their freedom. This is why I never really watched the news until I heard Trump was running for president. I feel he will only make things worse for everyone here, even those he seems to be championing right now. He is pretty happy about all this, probably playing golf, thinking about all the ways he will personally profit due to people panicking.

    I am letting my investments ride. I am not afraid and I am not going to mess with something that has been working. It runs in cycles and I have plenty of time left for the money situation to sort itself out. It would make me happier to admit to faulty Ni than to have the things I have been imagining manifesting in reality for others. I have had a lot of dystopian dreams for a while and they bother me.

    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    i'm sorry for calling your trump video overly dramatic
    Awww, I was not even thinking of that.

    "Something inexpressively lovely and wonderful advances through the crystal, nearer, nearer. And, oh, inexpressively terrifying. For if it were to touch you, if it were to seize you and engulf you, you'd die; all the regular, habitual daily part of you would die … one would have to begin living arduously in the quiet, arduously in some strange, unheard of manner."


     






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    I voted Remain.

    I very much see myself as European (although this is partly because I am half-English and half-Welsh, and do not especially see myself as either). I consider the UK being a part of Europe politically and economically important in an ever-increasingly globalized world, and very much conducive to peacefully mediating disputes while appreciating our shared common values and culture.

    It is true that the EU very much had problems with various key positions not being directly elected by anybody, and even a pro-EU person like me regularly found the EU carrying out key projects that I certainly felt far removed from in terms of actually voicing consent, but my pro-EU views are such that I was in favour of it for ideological reasons, not been swayed by more mundane flaws. I suppose I had the view that on the whole, it is overwhelmingly a good thing even without considering slight bureaucracy & accountability, and that it could have been reformed for the better, albeit very slowly.

    The next few years will be interesting times, although I feel in this situation, it will be one of the rare instances where it will not be the kind of interesting I look forward to (or at least, there will be a lot of hard times). I think the Brexit result is a price that, although heavily paid (especially for the UK, and to a lesser extent, Europe), it will certainly have a silver lining. I hope that the EU becomes more directly accountable, and that it will be become less keen to homogenise through bills that for example require the assent of all 28 (or 27) countries (such bills are actually not that common, and I actually agree with the EU argument that they, in general, do not get involved in crazy diktats like decreeing that bananas must fit into a narrow range of curvature, or that cucumbers must be straight etc.: (I'm actually thinking more of policies forcing prospective new members of the EU to adopt the Euro currency).
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    @Subteigh, I agree with everything you said above. Personally, I think EU lacks a common constitution first and foremost, then a clear, proportional voting system.
    I do hope EU without UK will push for some solutions that UK had been suppressing (I doubt that but there is a possibility). As for UK, there are also some less ominous perspectives. In hindsight, recent multi-billion pound business deals with China seem like especially good move. Given the portion of British export targeted to EU countries (>50%, if I recall correctly?), diversification was in order. And now UK will have even more free reign in signing contracts, so it might turn out profitable.
    What I mean is, in extremely fortunate turn of events, there are opportunities for both parties to grow while apart. And maybe, someday...
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    Quote Originally Posted by nondescript View Post
    Only idiots have voted for "EXIT". Various farm scrubs, old farts and other uneducated scum. Your usual clientelle of ultra conservative parties if you will.

    To put "god and country" above the future, above the money, above the betterment of future is selfish and medieval as fuck. It's sad to see that ~50% people still live in the middle ages fml. To sacrifice the future generations and the unity just...just because of "god and country", "pride" etc...UGH.

    It's even worse. ~80% young people voted "STAY" which means that even in the middle run, this decision is self defeating. Really, what's the point?
    Lol the only area of the UK that voted to remain was Scotland.
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    It was the best thing that the UK could have done. The US and the EU are both sinking ships, both have fundamentally horrible economics... UK just saved itself by hitting the eject button.
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    What's worse? Nationalism? Or people coming together pretending like we are all connected, like they are some better class of people, screaming about humanitarianism at every corner even though they continually shit on the little guy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitta View Post
    Lol the only area of the UK that voted to remain was Scotland.
    ...and London, Northern Ireland and some smaller regions.

     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitta View Post
    What's worse? Nationalism? Or people coming together pretending like we are all connected, like they are some better class of people, screaming about humanitarianism at every corner even though they continually shit on the little guy.
    Nationalism is the worst. It's pure stupidity unleashed. ...if only people could put it behind them. To die for country? Sorry, but L0L! Only thing I'd die for are my close ones, not some piece of land.

    Fuck nationalism!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nondescript View Post
    Nationalism is the worst. It's pure stupidity unleashed. ...if only people could put it behind them. To die for country? Sorry, but L0L! Only thing I'd die for are my close ones, not some piece of land.

    Fuck nationalism!
    You've bought into the propaganda... I swear I've already seen that word xenophobic thrown around at least 50 times today.

    There are multiple forms of nationalism. The simplest form is just sovereignty. The reason that a push for this would happen is the same reason that many in the US believe in state's rights.... cause it is much easier to government things from a more local government then it is a large globalized conglomerate. There is nothing xenophobic about this...it is taking control of your own local economy and laws.

    I do agree that there are more extreme forms of nationalism which demonstrate patriotism and pride... and even cultural supremacy. These can be xenophobic. The liberal media is trying to overlap both of these into the same category to incite rage in people, they are so angry that they don't have their big world power organization controlling everything for everyone. TBH I'd argue that globalism in this scenario is far more xenophobic. It can't accept that different people desire different things and want to govern themselves.
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    One thing I was opposed to about the EU was trade tariffs (between the EU and non-EU countries): that for me is not what the EU should be about. Similarly, I also cannot understand anti-dumping measures (which has recently been an issue in regards China's steel exports).

    In regards the European presidents (there are three!) not being directly elected (by members of the electorate), that is a peculiar point for British people to make, because their own Prime Minister is not directly elected either. When the Conservatives have their leadership election to decide who to replace David Cameron (who is resigning), it will in effect be the first time that the Prime Minister has been chosen as the result of a popular poll (the reason being that the Conservatives recently change the process by which they select their leader): but in reality, only members of the Conservatives will be allowed to vote, and technically, the office of Prime Minister will still be an unelected one.
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    When did I mention xenophobia? How can a man who denies the importance of nations and glorifies things like cosmopolitism / united Earth etc be xenophobic? In fact, I am a staunch believer in "United in difference". Sure, some people obviously shouldn't be mixed, but...to regress into small tribes? Sure, if it is done in lieu of the US, the EU or Germany(the last one being the best model imo).

    As H.Laurie said "it's easy to find reverse: it's straight and down". nuff said.

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    Suppsedly, this is helping my bitcoins get more value. So yay to making money off other people's stupid decisions.

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    The whole thing has been a shitshow. I never wanted a referendum because I felt too many people wanted to rebel rather than engage in nuanced debate. And certainly I would have wanted the result to depend on a bigger majority either way. It would also have been nice to include 16 and 17 year olds who will have to live with the consequences for a much longer period of time, and who would have been more likely to take advantage of the freedom of movement.

    A lot of Bostonians, (place of the largest exit vote and where I once spent a miserable year) would never have done the work that eastern europeans do there. It's low paid, seasonal, back-breaking work like fruit picking which locals didn't want to do. And many couldn't do such work physically, as Boston is the most obese place in the country (I'm not being mean - that's just a fact. They are not a healthy lot.). As for other jobs? Simply, we need more skilled workers.

    A large part of me thinks Boris Johnson never anticipated a Brexit and he may just have landed himself in hot water by playing that gambit for a good prime ministerial positioning. I wish that felt more satisfying.

    One of my concerns was workers rights, since unions don't hold much power anymore. I know one piece of Brexit rhetoric was that we should be modelling our economy on China. I don't want to see Chinese-style labour here. Maybe that wouldn't happen but I do see it as a possibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squirreltual View Post
    ...It would also have been nice to include 16 and 17 year olds ...
    God forbid that such young and inexperienced people get a say in the democratic process. If things were up to me, the suffrage age would go up to 25. Even better, I would require people to pass an exam first. I mean, the right to vote should go along with a duty to have some basic understanding, and most people's understanding does not go beyond tabloid nonsense they've discussed in the pub while being under influence.
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    USA destroys EU. Britain is the main USA's partner and never was completely integrated to EU (own money, for example)
    Germany partly helps in this, as has limited sovereignty after 1945. Arabs immigrants idiocy is the example of this.

    USA want to be the main political subject in Europe. Hence resist to confederative EU with Brussels, even in their today decorative form.

    Soon will want to depart Eastern European states as the weakest to resist USA's aims. Northern Europe is in strange close relations with USA, they should depart soon too. Departed states will make stronger links with USA or will turn to peripheral trash. Part of this trash will make more links to Euroasian Union, just to get some support. Southern Europe will fight for sovereignty and normal life for some time. It may establish kind of partnership with Eurasion Union against USA, doubtfuly for long.

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    I think the main problem with having a referendum wasn't the danger of acting on "the tyranny of the majority", but that the referendum didn't offer the chance for the electorate to make a more nuanced choice, and that such referendums (in the UK at least) are infrequent (meaning that changes in opinion are not well accounted for, and nuances of thought are not expressed).
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    Quote Originally Posted by nondescript View Post
    When did I mention xenophobia? How can a man who denies the importance of nations and glorifies things like cosmopolitism / united Earth etc be xenophobic? In fact, I am a staunch believer in "United in difference". Sure, some people obviously shouldn't be mixed, but...to regress into small tribes? Sure, if it is done in lieu of the US, the EU or Germany(the last one being the best model imo).

    As H.Laurie said "it's easy to find reverse: it's straight and down". nuff said.
    You are inferring the misguided point though that nationalism means that we should die for our country/land.... and I'm sorry but that's not always inherent in nationalism either. As I said there are different forms of nationalism... the most simple form just meaning sovereignty.... you act as if 52% of the population of the UK chose to leave the EU in the name of nationalism cause they wanted to die for their country... just as many other misinformed people think that those 52% somehow all have xenophobic inclinations. It is just an absurd leap that people are making(mostly it is being made due to the influence of the media).

    If someone wants to argue the logistics of being in the EU v.s. not being in the EU... and the person has some coherent reasons as to why they should have stayed... I'm open ears. This petty buillshit though that people keep going on about is getting tiresome.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitta View Post
    If someone wants to argue the logistics of being in the EU v.s. not being in the EU... and the person has some coherent reasons as to why they should have stayed... I'm open ears. This petty buillshit though that people keep going on about is getting tiresome.
    I agree that most opinions are petty bullshit, but I'll take shot anyway: the thing here is, why do the majority of the British want to leave the EU, what is it they have against the EU? That they have to follow rules decided upon in Brussels, rules they feel hamper their sovereignty, the possibility to decide their own fate? Or could it be that they are fooled by UK politicians who are realizing their own agendas by hiding behind EU policies, which allows them to wash their hands in innocence and say "We can't help it, Brussels requires us to do this!" UK politicians are by no means the only ones that do this, this is how it works all over Europe. It's an effective way to bypass the democratic influence. The UK population imho has now regained the right to decide who fucks them over up their asses, without a convenient scapegoat around to lay blame on.

    In fact, all those people who voted against the EU perhaps were the ones who had the most to gain from the EU, for without the EU there would have been no protection whatsoever against the neo-liberal agendas of UK politicians, and they would have been off worse.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favor of the EU. The sooner that monster falls flat on its face, the better. UK voters did me a favor, not themselves.

    To those people who think Brexit is the first step in creating problems: you're wrong, the Brexit is not the cause of problems, but a symptom of problems already making their mark on Europe. Don't look at the trees, try to see the forest!
    Last edited by consentingadult; 06-26-2016 at 01:30 PM.
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    National boundaries are going to become increasingly irrelevant as time goes on. Keeping that in mind, it is in everybody's interest to be well-represented locally and internationally.

    Having intercontinental and international mediation and co-operation as the default standard and benchmarks in trade bring peace and prosperity.

    In regards the UK and the EU: it is true that the UK would still be part of international be part of intercontinental and international bodies. But if the UK leaves the EU, it will have no say in EU regulations affecting EU trade benchmarks, but UK businesses will nonetheless still be obliged to follow them should they wish to export their products to EU countries.
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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    To those people who think Brexit is the first step in creating problems: you're wrong, the Brexit is not the cause of problems, but a symptom of problems already making their mark on Europe. Don't look at the trees, try to see the forest!
    Personally I think the advantage is when you are working within a system to change it from the inside out. it is far more beneficial than walking away and starting over. Changing a system from within is beneficial for more people, in the long run. Unfortunately there were generations that grew more complacent and didn't look out for their own best interests. It happened in the US too. Even some of the hippies ended up working in corporate America and investing in 401k plans after they had their fun. Some old hippies still hold onto their dreams to this day. Pretty cool actually. They are some of the freest self governing people I know.

    Nationalism and Sovereignty are used interchangeably by some but on a simple level they are not the same. The only thing you can have complete sovereignty over is yourself and even then you could find yourself in prison for daring to to be so bold. For better or worse there is safety in numbers. ISIS and Al Qaeda have a strategy and it is to divide and conquer. Those who don't think xenophobia plays a huge part in all this have their heads stuck in the sand. People are scared. Understandable. But divide and conquer is a great and simple strategy that children use on their parents all the time. It is a strategy that has worked throughout history. I find it interesting that it was after the vote that google searches in the UK went way up. Questions like, "What is the EU?' Shouldn't you be informed on what you are voting for.

    If you want to take your toys and go home that is fine but don't whine about it when you are the kid getting bullied or ignored on the playground because you decided you can't play nice with others. I am not saying this to you, general statement.

    When the world is united, ideally, they look out for the weakest. Nationalism is another way to say "not my problem". You are still being ruled by some governing party no matter how you spin it. I don't know if it is better to be part of the ruling classes or just another peasant in those situations. When the people rise up against the ruling class it is never pretty. History is full of examples. I wonder if it will happen in North Korea in my lifetime.

    I am not politically savvy but I know what I am seeing from a bird's eye view.

    I am just watching to see how things will unfold...I can't even vote in the US so I have to maintain my own sovereignty when it comes to government to the best of my ability but I know how to work within and change systems. Maybe in another time and place I might have been so idealistic to follow someone like Che Guevera or a similar type. Now I follow myself. My teens were all about rebellion. Now I am about looking out for those I care about. I have some in my family now who thought Bernie was the answer. I didn't think that but I saw the appeal. I do not know the answer but a united world seems better to me than a divided one. I know I will not live to see it and I plan to live to age 86, unless my plans change.

    I am not fully awake yet so think of this response as a rough draft of my thoughts on these things.
    Last edited by Aylen; 06-26-2016 at 05:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitta View Post
    If someone wants to argue the logistics of being in the EU v.s. not being in the EU... and the person has some coherent reasons as to why they should have stayed... I'm open ears. .
    I'm not inclined to argue (I'm terrible at that) but I can think of a few potential problems that might arise:

    1. There are 1.26 million UK citizens living outside the UK in the EU's other 27 member states. Their situation may become unclear.
    2. Young people, whom Brexit will affect the most, voted mostly Remain. Understandable, since they want to enjoy studying, living and working where they please.
    3. Roughly half of British export goes to the EU countries. As @Subteigh pointed out, the regulations for that will hold, only after Brexit the UK will have no say in establishing those regulations.
    4. I am not sure what kind of deal is the UK going to try to negotiate with the UE but it is speculated that Norwegian model is most likely. Norway, not an EU member, is granted access to the free market but in return they send money to Eauropean budget and allow free movement - two things that the voters were unhappy about. If the UK refuses that, why should the EU acquiesce to free of duty trade? Whereas it's not good for either party, the UK would take the burnt of it.
    5. The EU was on it's way to finalize TTIP talks by the end of 2016 - something that the UK was pushing for the most. Now, best case scenario, TTIP is going to be massively postponed for the UK (for the EU as well, probably). Really not good for anybody but Russia and China, maybe.
    6. Scotland is quite determined to remain in the EU and their First Minister is already in contact with the EU politicians about this. "A second referendum on Scottish independence is now "on the table". From the legal standpoint, many say that Scotland may block Brexit but understandably, it is not something that the EU seems to want now. "Out means Out, or we would never hear the end of complaints about how the English got cheated."
    7. Financial institutions are most likely to move from the City of London to the continent.
    8. Arguably, it is easier and more beneficial to negotiate huge business and political matters with bigger countries from inside the EU.
    9.

    10. I, for one, take pride in the EU citizenship. As I am sure many Britons do.

    These are probably just the tip of the iceberg. Some of what I listed may be less than 100% accurate, I am by no means an expert on the matter, just inquiring.

    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    To those people who think Brexit is the first step in creating problems: you're wrong, the Brexit is not the cause of problems, but a symptom of problems already making their mark on Europe. Don't look at the trees, try to see the forest!
    Yes, this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by malna View Post
    10. I, for one, take pride in the EU citizenship. As I am sure many Britons do.
    I have EU citizenship due to my country of birth, even though I live in the US. I remember when I was told this I thought it was pretty cool because if I had to leave the US (due to things outside my control) there were many options available. I still had my eye on Canada though since it seemed the most culturally similar. I do remember having a feeling of pride associated with that knowledge.

    "Something inexpressively lovely and wonderful advances through the crystal, nearer, nearer. And, oh, inexpressively terrifying. For if it were to touch you, if it were to seize you and engulf you, you'd die; all the regular, habitual daily part of you would die … one would have to begin living arduously in the quiet, arduously in some strange, unheard of manner."


     






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    Quote Originally Posted by malna View Post
    5. The EU was on it's way to finalize TTIP talks by the end of 2016 - something that the UK was pushing for the most. Now, best case scenario, TTIP is going to be massively postponed for the UK (for the EU as well, probably). Really not good for anybody but Russia and China, maybe.
    Actually, I recently read a political commentary that the EU leadership is getting fed up with TTIP negotiations, because the way they see it, the US is negotiating a lopsided treaty. Over here in the Netherlands, even big companies are now expressing skepticism about TTIP, because to them it seems the US is not willing to open up their markets for certain types of businesses. I would not be surprised if lack of progress in the TTIP negotiations is going to be framed in such a way that Brexit conveniently takes the blame.
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    One oversight of the Brexit vote: https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...lism?CMP=fb_gu

    Recklessly, casually, with barely a thought, English nationalists have planted a bomb under the settlement that brought peace to Northern Ireland and close cordiality to relations between Britain and Ireland. To do this seriously and soberly would have been bad. To do it so carelessly, with nothing more than a pat on the head and a reassurance that everything will be all right, is frankly insulting.
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