Ti-Seeking vs. Ti PoLR?

[Gypsy]

Hey there. I would like to hear from some ExFj's and ExFp's on this. I find descriptions on the internet are too vague on these subjects.

ExFj's, why exactly do you seek Ti? What do you Ti-dom duals (if you've interacted with one) do that intrigues you?

On the flip-side, Ti PoLR's. What is it about Ti that you hate? What has you conflictor done that has irritated you?

I'd like for this to stick to real-life examples, if possible.

Thanks.

[Gypsy]

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[SongOfSapphire]

Re: your question about what a LXI has done that irritated me -- a LII I know once argued w me, saying that an action should be prohibited if it is illegal, but permitted if it is legal and that the law is the only reason it should be prohibited or permitted, so if the law changes so should the right to perform/commit an action (whereas I prefer to judge an action as ethical or not myself and act accordingly [for the record, this does generally mean I conform to laws, w exceptions such as speeding which I do, and often my moral code is actually stricter than the law allows for); ethics didn't factor in at all, he said. This baffled me and struck me as putting the cart before the horse, since for me at least, ideally an illegal action should have been made illegal bc it is unethical, not the other way around.

[ClownsandEntropy]

Re: your question about what a LXI has done that irritated me -- a LII I know once argued w me, saying that an action should be prohibited if it is illegal, but permitted if it is legal and that the law is the only reason it should be prohibited or permitted, so if the law changes so should the right to perform/commit an action (whereas I prefer to judge an action as ethical or not myself and act accordingly [for the record, this does generally mean I conform to laws, w exceptions such as speeding which I do, and often my moral code is actually stricter than the law allows for); ethics didn't factor in at all, he said. This baffled me and struck me as putting the cart before the horse, since for me at least, ideally an illegal action should have been made illegal bc it is unethical, not the other way around.

Well that's just stupid! What, so the law makes things legal?

So if there were a country where a dictator says it is legal for her to take whatever she wants, then that would not only be the law, but it would also be morally laudable?

And when people argue for a change in the laws, they are immoral (they are promoting something which should be prohibited), but as soon as they succeed, they are suddenly moral?

Your LXI friend is stupid. Tell them that they are stupid.

I think IEEs and SEEs often have an implicit belief about how things work - even if they can't articulate it - and they don't like that LIIs can create structured arguments that they can't articulate why they disagree. ESEs normally don't have the same belief about how things work, or they put less confidence in them, so they're willing to hear one LIIs perspective.

And maybe EXEs respond differently. If they disagree, they relay an experience which they feel contradicts or doesn't mesh well, and an LXI either tries to fit into their framework or they think "oh, maybe this doesn't work... maybe if I tweak my framework it will be OK," and then everyone is happy and the structure works better.

[SongOfSapphire]

I didn't say he was a friend....

[Muddy]

There is a person I work with whom I believe to be EIE. He always wants other people to follow the rules and organize things around the warehouse for him and I think that is how his Ti-seeking manifest. Order and rules are important to Fe base types since they help create and maintain the social institutions in which Fe types thrive in. Fe is pretty useless in the wild west.

Ti polrs come across very differently, with the prevailing attitude among them being something like," Fuck off I'll do what I want when I want to" when pressured to follow a strict set of orders.

[Beautiful sky]

Oh poop. Did I just post in another thread?

[Beautiful sky]

I posted in here

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...NFps-and-ESFps

[Gypsy]

There is a person I work with whom I believe to be EIE. He always wants other people to follow the rules and organize things around the warehouse for him and I think that is how his Ti-seeking manifest. Order and rules are important to Fe base types since they help create and maintain the social institutions in which Fe types thrive in. Fe is pretty useless in the wild west.

Ti polrs come across very differently, with the prevailing attitude among them being something like," Fuck off I'll do what I want when I want to" when pressured to follow a strict set of orders.

I can understand that some. But I think Enneagram might have a little bit to do with that as well.
I know an IEI 7 who has that "fuck off" attitude and a phobic 6w5 SEE who follows rules pretty well.