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Thread: Reverse Benefit and Supervison Relationships

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    Question Reverse Benefit and Supervison Relationships

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...nd_Supervision

    "Breaking free" interpretation

    Some authors explain "reverse" benefit and supervision relations as the attempts of the beneficiary or the supervisee to come from under the control of their benefactor or supervisor, to distance by means of starting up arguments, pointing out their mistakes, picking at their flaws and errors. This constitutes rejection of any information or energy pulse coming from them and obstruction of it being passed down the supervision and benefit chains. As such, both benefit and supervision relations can oscillate from "direct" to "reverse" states with the supervisee or beneficiary being either receptive or rejecting of their supervisor or benefactor.
    Came across this today and found it interesting, and after replying to the thread "Supervision relations: how do you feel interacting with your supervisor?", this offers interesting insight into my interactions with LIEs. I'm not sure if this theory is reflected in the below example conversation:

    My family was having a discussion about sororities. Someone asked me for which sorority might I be interested in pledging when I went to college. I said the same sorority to which my mother had pledged. My aunt, LIE, says jokingly, "they're known as a bunch of nerds". I reply "and how exactly is being around nerds or being a nerd a bad thing when in college". From my understanding of supervision, I should've felt belittled (maybe not as I'm not confident on my understanding of this relationship's dynamics).

    Another example, I often find LIEs to lack common sense. An LIE I know often leaves her back door open when at work. She's under the belief that having 3 large dogs and a security system (that's never engaged) will deter any would-be burglar. I've expressed that any burglar serious about burglarizing won't be discouraged by dogs who can be easily immobilized (especially if they know the dogs are huge scary cats, which she shares with everyone. All immediate neighbors know this). Recently, a neighbor's house was broken into during the day, with a security system engaged, small dog in the house AND the homeowners home. She no longer leaves the door open, but doesn't lock it or activate the security system. I think it's playing with fire. In this example I'm picking out mistakes in thinking and living etc.

    I also recognize I might simply be rude, making it appear to be reverse supervision.

    Has anyone experienced this? Any thoughts or examples? Do you even believe this could exist?
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    Well, maybe we LIE's do lack common sense. Personally, I never locked my house before I got married, at which point the SLI wife insisted that it be locked. I never had anything stolen. What are they going to take, the couch?
    Also, if anything were to be stolen, I'd just get another one, if I thought it was important enough to replace.

    The only time I ever had a break in, it was the local police. I had come home late from a long trip, and woke up in my bed near dawn with the impression that someone was in the room. I opened my eyes and saw three cops standing there. I said, "What are you guys doing here?" They said, "We got a 911 call from this house and are investigating". I said, "It didn't come from me." They said, "This happens a lot, false alarm", no apology, the bastards, while showing me how they broke through the window screen and opened the window to get in. Unbelievable. They got in through a front window that faces the street. If I had more presence of mind, I'd have sued the city for trespassing. But, I was still waking up. Weak excuse, I know.

    My point is that an alarm system and a dog are not going to protect your stuff. Better to just buy insurance and live in a nice neighborhood. And sue the bastards if they do it again.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-15-2016 at 04:27 PM.

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    An IEI criticizing an LIE for lacking common sense? That has to be a first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    An IEI criticizing an LIE for lacking common sense? That has to be a first.
    Hey, man. You're not going to get anywhere with that attitude.

    I've noticed that some LIE's can be pretty insensitive to IEI's sometimes, particularly concerning efficiency, achieving goals, practicality, etc. I probably do it, too, but unintentionally, through being an asshole. Regarding IEI's having a lack of common sense, I just don't see that. Or maybe I don't feel comfortable criticizing someone when I have plenty of faults myself. You just have to look for value where it exists, and IEI's have plenty of good points.
    Supervision may give us asymmetric views of each other, though.

    I credit my attitude of valuing IEI's to growing up with my IEI favorite cousin, three weeks apart in age, always together as kids. She is different, but she is OK.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-16-2016 at 12:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Regarding IEI's having a lack of common sense, I just don't see that.
    When it comes to everyday life, IEIs totally lack common sense, haha.
    I've often been criticized for being "unworldly" by my LSE and ESE parents. It's true, there are many everyday things I am clueless about, and uninterested in learning about. It is probably related to my Te PoLR.
    For instance, I would avoid reading maps and figuring out how to get somewhere by train properly up until university, when I finally had to do it. As a kid, I struggled with reading the clock/time for a while. I just never saw the point, nor did my mind "work that way".

    You might say this is me being/playing dumb, but in other areas of life I'd show above average intelligence. So, this is how weak Te can show itself. It is a certain kind of stupidity regarding objective structures and rules/laws in the real world, and how to deal with them – as the PoLR, it is also the avoidance of such.

    To come back to the dog/door situation: She sounds like someone who has little E6 influence in her personality. (I would not attribute this behaviour to her being LIE at all – LIEs with strong E6 will most likely act differently.) E6 is typically very vigilant, especially when it comes to burglary and alarm systems, etc. My mother has got a strong E6 in her tritype, and she is regularly anxious about such things, the alarm system has to be engaged each single night, otherwise she feels uncomfortable with sleeping. Recently my brother who is either 7w6 or 6w7 started closing the windows whenever it is getting dark outside.

    I have no E6 influence in my personality, and I never really worry about such things. I don't see the world as being a scary and uncertainty inducing place like E6 does. Having a stronger E5 influence, I can see the world as being overly intrusive and energy-robbing, however. So, I might keep windows or doors open, but when someone demands my time and attention when they have not told me in advance (like unexpected visitors), I can freak out a bit and will immediately withdraw.

    At last, this is what I have written about how "Reverse Supervision" tends to play out in my blog:
    From the Supervisor’s perspective, the only real annoyance in the relation is their Supervisee’s occupation with their Creative function – especially when the subtypes are mismatched, many fights will revolve around the Supervisor being negligent of their Role function, which the Supervisee occasionally seems to "push“ unto them, trying to paradoxically ”teach” their Supervisor (and by that reversing the "flow“), seeing that this is their Supervisor's (seemingly) only weakness.
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    Well, both LIEs and IEIs can be too idealistic. They are both not really sensor practical world types- it might seem like the LIE is like that, but they are faggy intuitors. Not str8 man sensors.

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    Yes, great thread. It happens all the time. Everybody has weaknesses and can be hit with criticism. It's also possible for your supervisee to make you feel insecure inadvertently because they have greater strength than you do in some areas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Well, maybe we LIE's do lack common sense. Personally, I never locked my house before I got married, at which point the SLI wife insisted that it be locked. I never had anything stolen. What are they going to take, the couch?
    Also, if anything were to be stolen, I'd just get another one, if I thought it was important enough to replace.

    The only time I ever had a break in, it was the local police. I had come home late from a long trip, and woke up in my bed near dawn with the impression that someone was in the room. I opened my eyes and saw three cops standing there. I said, "What are you guys doing here?" They said, "We got a 911 call from this house and are investigating". I said, "It didn't come from me." They said, "This happens a lot, false alarm", no apology, the bastards, while showing me how they broke through the window screen and opened the window to get in. Unbelievable. They got in through a front window that faces the street. If I had more presence of mind, I'd have sued the city for trespassing. But, I was still waking up. Weak excuse, I know.

    My point is that an alarm system and a dog are not going to protect your stuff. Better to just buy insurance and live in a nice neighborhood. And sue the bastards if they do it again.
    wtf

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    wtf
    before I had an LSE bf my doors were mostly unlocked and he had an overprotective LSE moment lol Can you picture it?

    Reason...why bother! If they're going to come and take it they probably needed it and Oh well good bye nice stuff...room for more

    Okay, okay. I won't do it again.

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    Maybe I just grew up in not so nice areas, plus, a paranoid EIE mother doesn't help.

    Do IEIs lack common sense, maybe (don't know any IRL, including myself). I've never thought of IEIs as lacking common sense, but more lacking the desire to function as an adult according to their culture. Common sense revolves around the ability to perceive, understand and judge people and their actions, both overt and covert (motives), Ni + Fe does that.
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    It might be so, that the supervisee think their supervisor is "ok" but the supervisor really think the supervisee is putting out a lot of energy on stuff they would never do and therefor think very good of them. Unnecessary good. Therefor the supervisor show extra gratitude to the supervisee which then think the supervisor is very kind in this regard.

    I have too little experience being the benefactor.

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    On the subject of security and safety I think its worth depends a lot on who you are. If you are a rich dude who has gotten in to a lot of fights with people in the past then security is obviously going to have to be on your agenda. If you are just average dude living in an average place then you can probably get away with a few unlocked doors here and there. I'm pretty sure the large majority of burglaries are done by people who know the owner of the house in some way, so if you are a ghost like me who doesn't know anybody in town then your chances of being robbed are probably too insignificant to be worth investing resources for. So while it might be common sense for one person to always protect their stuff, it might not for another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    before I had an LSE bf my doors were mostly unlocked and he had an overprotective LSE moment lol Can you picture it?

    Reason...why bother! If they're going to come and take it they probably needed it and Oh well good bye nice stuff...room for more

    Okay, okay. I won't do it again.
    I'm like that too, people around me tell me I'm too careless with my wallet, laptop, locking house etc. But I really rather lose stuff then stress about stuff.

    Incidentily I have crazy luck when I lose thing it always comes back and I never really got mugged or robbed or broken into.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    On the subject of security and safety I think its worth depends a lot on who you are. If you are a rich dude who has gotten in to a lot of fights with people in the past then security is obviously going to have to be on your agenda. If you are just average dude living in an average place then you can probably get away with a few unlocked doors here and there. I'm pretty sure the large majority of burglaries are done by people who know the owner of the house in some way, so if you are a ghost like me who doesn't know anybody in town then your chances of being robbed are probably too insignificant to be worth investing resources for. So while it might be common sense for one person to always protect their stuff, it might not for another.
    Nah, most burglaries are crimes of opportunity, unless you're talking real heists. Also I think rich people get burglarized less often because their neighborhoods are safer; more cops, more social control, more money to get security.

    rich people are also more likely to be well insurer and so care less about losing the stuff, but they will still get a lot of stress out of it happening.

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