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Thread: Please type me clever socionics nerds. :O

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    lilac's Avatar
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    Exclamation Please type me socionics peoplez :3

    Block I - Te

    1. What is work in your opinion? Why do people go to work? Are there any parameters where you can distinguish whether you can do this work or not?

    Work is anything you would not be doing without compensation.

    People work to survive.

    I can't handle work I am not mentally and physically fit for, like theoretical physicist, or a marine. As for middle range, anything with too much paperwork and mindless data would make me commit suicide.

    2. How do people determine the quality of work? How do you determine such quality? How well you can determine the quality of any purchase, do you pay any attention to it?

    High quality work is seen trough the high quality end product of said work. By people in general and me. What our biases are is another matter.

    Quality of purchase is determined trough -high quality'n'quantity/-low cost ratio.

    3. There is a professional right next to you. You always see that you can't perform the way they do. Your feelings, thoughts and actions?

    I'm glad to meet specialists. They make our society a better place and are a sign of prosperity. I enjoy the fact that they are around me as it brings out feelings of reverence and appreciation. I am inclined to ask them about their jobs in order to learn and get to know them as people to see what kind of person goes into said profession.

    4. If you struggle to do something, what can you say about such a task? Tell us your next steps and give examples. Compare with actions of others in a similar situation.

    Depends on the point of task. Struggling to do something meaningful/useful (like say running 5 miles, writing a story) makes me determined and passionate.

    Struggling with pointless nonsense makes me drop it/procrastinate. (like learning 500 pages of human anatomy, 90% of which I'll never use)

    5. You need to build a pyramid exactly like in Egypt. Your thoughts, feelings and actions?

    If they gave me money, I hire smart people to plan it for me and skilled people to build it for me.
    If no money, I sit on the sand, cry and get kidnapped...



    Block II - Ti

    1. General to specific, specific to general – what does it mean? Give examples.

    General speaks about the majority. It's the (general) rule. "Humans have legs."
    The specific is one unit. Can be an exception, but tends to follow the rule. "This particular human has no legs."

    From general, we make assumptions about the specific, from the specific we make general rules...


    2. What does "logical" mean? What is your understanding? Do you think that it correlates with the common view? Is it is easy for you to be logical?

    Logical is anything that follows rules of logic. Exp: If every a is b, and b always leads to c, then every a leads to c.

    Common view is common sense. Logic is not it. Logic is math of thought, common sense is often reason as a whole.

    logic + understanding of meaning = reason

    Yes it is easy for me to be logical.


    3. What is hierarchy? Give examples of hierarchies. Do you need to follow it? Why or why not? Give example of hierarchy of systems, what is it?

    A ranking system of agreed upon value. Like rich and poor, rewarded athletes in the Olympics, students and professors...

    I don't have a choice in being in a hierarchy if I wish to participate in any community that expects me to engage in their activities (making money, doing sports, engaging with science).
    No one can remove themselves from a hierarchy because a hierarchy is there to reward success and punish failure thus making a society prosper. You'd have to be a delusional hippy to think you can just ignore one and it'll make it disappear.

    4. Choose one of the following tasks and give a detailed answer. Explain your choice.
    If A is not B, and B is not C, therefore A is C. Is it correct? Why?


    I am not given a positive statement so I don't know what A can be and what B can be. We call that unknown set of each, because we don't know if their sets contain the same value, we only know they both don't contain B.

    A = unknown set1 - B
    B = unknown set2 - C or C = unknown set2 - B

    if I presume A = C

    unknown set1 - B = unknown set2 - B <=> unknown set1 = unknown set2 (translation: I DON'T KNOW if the two sets are the same, so dunno if A=C.)


    5. Do you frequently feel the need to structure information? For what purpose? How do people usually do it? How do you do it?

    Yes I need to structure it. For the purpose of not sounding like an idiot and not living my life without rhyme or reason.

    People compartmentalize life's input into sections that have different thinking standards applied to them.
    For example: compartment "Religion" has faith and feeling applied to input, while the compartment "Job" has a cost benefit analysis applied to input.

    I do the same.



    Block III - Se

    1. Can you press people? What methods do you use? If so, how does it happen?

    I don't put pressure on people directly. I don't have the heart to ever apply the force I could use if I went rouge, and most people have more force than me anyway. Also, long term this is not a smart approach as it makes people lift their guard and I don't want to do this all the time...

    I use positive incentive. Making them want what I can give them if they do what I want, then subtly threatening to take it away. <3
    And indirect pressure. I have a knack for manipulating people by subtly planting ideas in their heads that lead them to believe they want to do the things I intended they do.

    2. Are there strategies of attack? Can you use them? When is it justified? Do you think it's ok to occupy someone else's territory? In what situations?

    There is no need to have a whole strategy of attack if you maintain your boundaries and standards. This will filter all the sociopaths and morons out, so someone you would have to ACTUALLY attack will never be an issue.

    If I should fail in maintaining and I have no one to protect me when I do, I sink to my opponent's level, then lower, and hit back twice as hard. The fucked up shit I can think of, but would never have heart to do would have to be done...

    You can occupy another's territory only when in position of authority. Authority is power that you are given to care for and protect others. Like police, or parents, or tax collectors. They intrude on your territory to make the society run, the child healthy, the city safe...


    3. How do you protect yourself and your interests?

    Intuitive assessment, unbreakable boundaries and morals, charm, rapport with others, objective value making people need me.


    4. Describe your behavior in the situations of opposition and if you have to use some force?

    I am scared, excited, I appear to be calm standing firmly in my place and all of my aggression is entirely faked, employed only to meet the aggression of my opponent. It is not created with the incentive to "win right now", it is created with intention of deterring the person from fucking with me in the future.


    5. Do others think of you as a strong person? Do you think you are a strong person?

    Others think I'm strong, some think I am not. I'm sensitive, frail, cute-gentle looking, so mostly no.
    I don't think I'm a strong person either. Merely a frail person who knows how to put the pieces back together really quickly.


    Block IV - Si


    1. What is beauty? Do you change your opinion about beauty? Does your understanding correlate with the generally accepted notion? What goes beyond the generally accepted notion?

    I once heard a definition of beauty I really liked: Beauty is something everyone will find pleasing, without the strict desire to posses it.
    Other than that, this is to broad of a topic to give classifications.

    Anything that resonates with my soul is beauty to me.

    2. Is there a template of understanding what beautiful means for everyone to use? Is there such a term as "classic beauty"? If so, what is it?

    There are general beauty standards that people in majority respond positively to across time and culture, mostly when these beauty standards that creates something more enjoyable than other alternatives. Something harmonious.

    It is a manifestation of virtue.

    (a perfectly trained ballet dancer showing perfect harmony of movement to enchant us in a story, or a beautiful fit body displaying virtues of discipline and education, a symmetrical, big eyed, feminine face displaying health and fertility, a painting where each color and movement of the brush had its place...)

    3. How do you create your comfort and coziness? How do others evaluate your skill in doing so? Do you agree with them?

    Comfort for me is found in the proximity of people I love in a clean, aired, warm, orderly, smaller space with comfy, yet pretty(girly) clothes on and fuzzy carpets, wooden surfaces all around. Others think I should open windows more, but I don't want to be cold.

    4. How do you pick your own clothes? Do you follow fashion? Why? Do you know how to select clothes for different types of figures?

    Body type + fashion + color matching + design combinations + taste.
    I don't follow fashion into detail, but modernize my look while insisting on my personal taste.

    I've advised friends, but been given advice. I'm ok but meh.

    5. Tell us how you'd design any room, house or an office. Do you do it yourself or trust someone else to do it? Why?

    I have some skill to make it look nice, but it's not my forte.




    Block V - Fe

    1. Is it acceptable to express emotions in public? Give examples of inappropriate expression of emotions.

    Absolutely. More people express themselves, more they connect. Those who refrain remain empty and alone. As many environments as possible should be permeated with emotion, even professional ones as far as said profession allows it.

    2. Think of such negative emotional states as sadness, gloom, and despondence. Can you, at your own will, enter these states? If not, then when do you feel them? How long can you stay in such states? How can you withdraw from them? Can they be pleasant, soothing? How do you feel after you have experienced them?

    I'm extra sensitive during PMS and I can cry almost on Q. Just think sad thoughts.
    Normally, I can't cry on purpose, but I can bring myself down if I give it time.

    If I am brought to tears while praying, while letting go of something, while forgiving, I feel relief and elation.
    If I am brought to tears while sinking into my pain feeling hopeless, I feel tired and hollow after.

    3. How quickly can you change emotional state? To what side – positive or negative?

    I'm quite emotionally reactive. Push my buttons and I'll switch from one to another.

    4. What emotional state is usual for you? Does your internal emotional state correlate with what you show externally?

    Normally I'm smiling and amused by people. Generally cheerful. And it's honest because others bring that out of me. I can be sad, but seeing people I respond to them and change mood.

    5. Tell us about your moods over the last day.

    Neutral in the morning over my ex checking up on me again, and work to be done, happy in the afternoon for test well done and fun group outing with colleagues, nervous and sad over one of them mockingly teasing me- calling me crazy, surprised with myself for being nervous over something so dumb. Happy in the evening over hanging out online with friends and family and relaxing.




    Block VI - Fi

    1. Tell us, how did you build relationships with others over the last day?

    Battled a female friend in a phone game over bluetooth, teased her for losing, got teased back when loosing, hugged goodbye and smiled. Talked to male classmates, bantered and laughed with them, shared stories about other people we hang out with. Called their soccer talk boring before leaving the hang out, making it out as if I was bored by them. Made them "beg" me and friend to return. Arranged a hang out soon with friend. Planned a mafia organisation with brother and common friend in Facebook comment section, sent dumb hearts to few people, told the guy I am considering as a bf I admire his hardworking spirit when he contacted me late after being done with work, while gently sending him away so I can finish answering these.

    2. What is sympathy? When do you need to express it? When is it advised not to? How do you express it?

    Feeling what another person feels. You express it when someone wants to be understood, you restrain it when someone is dangerous for your mental health overall. People who need to leave your life use sympathy to latch onto you. It can be dangerous.

    You listen, you feel and you stay there intuiting what the person needs you to do. Sometimes they even need you to gtfo.

    3. Are there any standards of behavior or interpersonal relationships in the society? If so, do you adhere to them? Do people always have to maintain them? Why?

    Yes, it's called manners and civilized behavior. I do adhere to them, they exist to make as many people as possible enjoy my presence, or not be bothered by it at least.
    Personal relationships that are very intimate run on feeling and intimate understanding of one another, so these rules can be broken in close relationships with no issue.

    4. What does moral mean? What is immoral? How do you understand these terms and does your understanding correlate with the others? How can you evaluate the correctness of your own understanding?

    Morality is a standard of behavior aimed to make me virtuous, thus ensure a happier life as well as spiritual and emotional well being.
    Immoral behavior is breaking of standards your soul, emotions and reason tell you is right. It leads to lessening of quality of one's life, if not, then those around them, effecting them by proxy later on.

    I don't have certainty about my morality, but I do have a set morality I adhere to, for lack of a better alternative if there is one.

    5. Somebody is giving you a negative attitude – what is your reaction? Could you show your own negative attitude toward someone else? If so, how? Could you feel ill-disposed towards somebody for a long time? How easily do you forgive people?

    If the person is someone I respect and whose respect I desire, I gently repair the issue between us. If the person is someone I don't respect, or someone simply too young to respect, I teasingly ridicule their negative attitude and/or ignore it, not showing I see it as something that matters at all.

    I never feel ill-disposed to someone for a long time. I forgive fast.



    Block VII - Ne

    1. Is there a meaning of life? In what? Is it the same for everybody?

    You can imagine meaning to your life to be many things, but until you speak to God himself, you cannot know where it is all headed and why you, here, like this, right now.

    2. When you meet a stranger, what can you say about them right away? How do you know what this person is all about? Does it take long to understand someone's traits?

    Someone's traits are a bit harder to gauge completely, but their motivations are often readily apparent. Many say them quickly if you know how to listen.

    3. 'Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.' (Albert Einstein). What is the core of stupidity? Explain the reason for its infinity. How does thinking of a fool differ?

    Stupidity is a combination of laziness, arrogance and lack of mental capacity. Too lazy to research what they know, to arrogant to question how they think and lacking in mental capacity even if they could research and question.

    4. Truth, half-truth and lie: where is the borderline between these concepts? Are "pure" states possible, and how can collection of true facts turn into lies?

    There is only one truth. Half-truths are nothing but lies by omission.
    True facts create lies, when used for dishonest reasons. I can desire to be the authority on truth and use true facts about science to dishonestly dismiss all thought but empirical thought while presenting myself as a philosopher. (look at Dawkins)

    5. Ideas do not have to be correct in order to be good. What's your attitude towards this statement?

    Ideas are not a matter of "correct", but possible. It's true, but an unnecessary statement.



    Block VIII - Ni

    1. How do people change? How do you feel about those changes? Can others see the changes?

    People change when punishment for bad behavior and reward of prospective love are BOTH at the same time, strong enough to allow them to face themselves and move in the right direction, while at the same time being gently lifted on their feet if they've been too broken to move.

    2. What is time? How do you feel time? Can you waste time?

    Time is the most precious resource we have. I feel time presuming how fast it's running out, but I'm sometimes wrong. It slips trough my fingers when I get lost in my world.

    I can waste time for sure, but looking back I never feel I've wasted time. I feel grateful for all the bad things that happened because they too made me better than I was.

    3. Do you need help creating forecasts and determining how something will end? Do you trust those forecasts?

    I often see the end to many things even before they start. I trust my presumptions because I'm often right.

    4. Are you normally late? How do you react if someone is late?

    I am often late and I'm forgiving of others who are late as well. I overestimate how much time I need to do things I intend to do, because I overestimate my motivation to do them fast.

    5. Tell us your thoughts on the topic of "Influence of fortune on my life.”

    I don't think there is a luck in that sense. More like a cosmic karma binding all things into one, evening everything out. Maybe God?
    Whatever it is, all luck and lack of it seems to me to have a certain meaning that is life's way of offering us a limited number of paths to walk, while not inhibiting our free will over whether or not we are going to walk them. We are ALL far too bound into one for randomness to be entirely random.
    Last edited by lilac; 06-11-2016 at 04:19 AM.

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    it's better to make videointerview
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1096450
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
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    I personally suggest taking some tests: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ocionics-Tests
    I don't think it is easy to use answers to such set questions to type a third person (I tend to think the questions are rather leading).
    However, my general impression is that you are an irrational type (i.e. a perceiving-dominant type), possibly -leading, and perhaps IEI.
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

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    Chacha's Avatar
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    I would suggest an ethic + sensing type, due to the clear focus on feelings and very low intuitive blocks.

    Have you considered SEE?

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    lilac's Avatar
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    No, SEE descriptions sound like an antithesis of me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilac View Post
    SEE descriptions sound like an antithesis of me.
    "If no money, I sit on the sand, cry and get kidnapped"

    there is some of IEI in this sentence
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
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    I suggest standing on your head and consuming a watermelon while flashing gang signs with your right hand. Video the entire thing and make sure you time yourself. We'll need as much information as you can gather so we can determine your function preferences and guess at your most likely types.

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Well, I read through about 1/3 of your answers, and my initial impression is introverted Delta (attraction to coziness, religion, virtue), probably EII because of admiration of Te and description of spectacular inner life of Feeling Fi. Plus, your avatar VI's that. (FWIW) When I have more time (in a day or two), I'll give you a more detailed explanation of why I think so.

    P.S. I also get the impression you might be sx-first, but I might be misinterpreting a few things.

    P.P.S. I just noticed you posted a profile picture. Gamma or Delta, with high probability of Delta. I'm really thinking EII.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-12-2016 at 03:10 PM.

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    lilac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capitalist Pig View Post
    I suggest standing on your head and consuming a watermelon while flashing gang signs with your right hand. Video the entire thing and make sure you time yourself. We'll need as much information as you can gather so we can determine your function preferences and guess at your most likely types.
    I lost the phone I used to video myself. My head hurts now.

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    Taking into account profile picture, seems I-N type. So +2 cents to INFP assumption.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capitalist Pig View Post
    I suggest standing on your head and consuming a watermelon while flashing gang signs with your right hand.
    Seems common typing methods don't give to Capitalist Pig the useful effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by lilac View Post
    I lost the phone I used to video myself. My head hurts now.
    It's bad, when you are the only man with a smartphone in town.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
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    edit: need to look more closely
    Last edited by thehotelambush; 06-12-2016 at 07:38 PM.

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    I am pretty sure I have seen you before.

    Welcome to the forum.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
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    I would say LSI is the most likely. Everything you write is constructed very precisely, and orderliness is also a major theme in the content of your answers. Your answers for Ti and Se were quite sophisticated.

    and when you say "Work is anything you would not be doing without compensation." this is really a definition, and it seems like you put some thought into it. Many people offer something that is more like a description that may not be totally correct or general.

    "No one can remove themselves from a hierarchy because a hierarchy is there to reward success and punish failure thus making a society prosper. You'd have to be a delusional hippy to think you can just ignore one and it'll make it disappear."

    Not many types would say something like this...if you are another type it would have to be Beta. (Personally I find there are many ways to remove oneself from a hierarchy if you don't like it )

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    I would say LSI is the most likely.
    Logic is the reasonable way to come to wrong decisions.

    The situation reminds how it's important to give video, not only questionnaire.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Some IxFx type. Ethics very apparent. SEI/IEI?

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    I say SEI because she likes people to get information and resources for her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I say SEI because she likes people to get information and resources for her.
    Actually this is very true about me. I was famous for bugging my teachers with questions and bugging others to explain things to me being too lazy to search things myself. I've had at least 4 teachers who rolled their eyes by the end of the class when I was raising my hand, too lazy to look stuff up, or figure it out for myself. xD

    But to be completely fair, a big part of my questioning in class was manipulation making me seem more learned and interested in the subject, when I rarely was. This made (most) teachers more inclined to assume I know my lesson well and grade me with all A's during oral examinations even though I studied a lot less than half the people who got worse grades than me.

    I can also bullshit my way out of trouble sometimes. I'm good with words. You know like a politician. Talk for hours, look smart and say two things. xD

    Though my information-search laziness stands. I'm never too proud to ask as long as it's quicker to get info that way.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilac View Post
    Actually this is very true about me. I was famous for bugging my teachers with questions and bugging others to explain things to me being too lazy to search things myself. I've had at least 4 teachers who rolled their eyes by the end of the class when I was raising my hand, too lazy to look stuff up, or figure it out for myself. xD

    But to be completely fair, a big part of my questioning in class was manipulation making me seem more learned and interested in the subject, when I rarely was. This made (most) teachers more inclined to assume I know my lesson well and grade me with all A's during oral examinations even though I studied a lot less than half the people who got worse grades than me.

    I can also bullshit my way out of trouble sometimes. I'm good with words. You know like a politician. Talk for hours, look smart and say two things. xD

    Though my information-search laziness stands. I'm never too proud to ask as long as it's quicker to get info that way.
    lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilac View Post
    a big part of my questioning in class was manipulation making me seem more learned and interested in the subject
    +1 to F

    even though I studied a lot less than half the people who got worse grades than me
    P types often study not systematically, what may make such impression. And it's easier to study for N types, as they better operate with abstractions, what helps to get higher grades.

    I'm good with words. You know like a politician. Talk for hours, look smart and say two things
    it's closer to IEI, than SEI
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    +1 to F



    P types often study not systematically, what may make such impression. And it's easier to study for N types, as they better operate with abstractions, what helps to get higher grades.



    it's closer to IEI, than SEI
    why you think SEI can't talk one up? not a good response if you say "no"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    why you think SEI can't talk one up?
    I said the other thing - it's less probable for ISFP than INFP. It needs fantasy, understanding of the opponent and quick reaction, which is better at N types. ISFP generally too simple and slow for this. ISFP are better for kitchen, than for intellectual talking.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    I said the other thing - it's less probable for ISFP than INFP. It needs fantasy, understanding of the opponent and quick reaction, which is better at N types. ISFP generally too simple and slow for this. ISFP are better for kitchen, than for intellectual talking.
    my SEI friend is a lawyer
    she can talk one up better than your girl in your kitchen

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    I said the other thing - it's less probable for ISFP than INFP. It needs fantasy, understanding of the opponent and quick reaction, which is better at N types. ISFP generally too simple and slow for this. ISFP are better for kitchen, than for intellectual talking.
    while you were busy making stereotypes you missed "I'm lazy" "I want others to do some things for me" "Please help me help you conserve some energy" "while I avoid expanding my energy "

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilac View Post
    Actually this is very true about me. I was famous for bugging my teachers with questions and bugging others to explain things to me being too lazy to search things myself. I've had at least 4 teachers who rolled their eyes by the end of the class when I was raising my hand, too lazy to look stuff up, or figure it out for myself. xD

    But to be completely fair, a big part of my questioning in class was manipulation making me seem more learned and interested in the subject, when I rarely was. This made (most) teachers more inclined to assume I know my lesson well and grade me with all A's during oral examinations even though I studied a lot less than half the people who got worse grades than me.

    I can also bullshit my way out of trouble sometimes. I'm good with words. You know like a politician. Talk for hours, look smart and say two things. xD

    Though my information-search laziness stands. I'm never too proud to ask as long as it's quicker to get info that way.
    do you want someone to give you will power or to motivate you? push you or inspire?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    do you want someone to give you will power or to motivate you? push you or inspire?
    Someone to give me will power. To push me for sure. I love that in guys I date especially.
    Last edited by lilac; 06-16-2016 at 11:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilac View Post
    Someone to give me will power. To push me for sure. I love that in guys I date especially. Makes me feel loved.
    Now let's see what @Aylen would say

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilac View Post
    Someone to give me will power. To push me for sure. I love that in guys I date especially.
    Se in super-id
    INFP
    Last edited by Sol; 06-17-2016 at 09:57 AM.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Now let's see what @Aylen would say
    I will just quote from the descriptions I personally relate to, and bold what I relate to most, since I see where you are going with this.

    IEIs have little natural or automatic awareness concerning their ability to make use of their willpower or position and exercise their will in opposition to others. Such a task is bothersome [Especially when I don't want to be bothered] and they appreciate someone taking up the role for them and executing it well. [I do appreciate it but I would like to be part of the team and not sit by and let someone fight all my battles. I will watch their back, while they have mine, so to speak. I might have been more clueless as a teen but I was raised in an Se valuing environment so learned rather quickly that I have to use my own will if my other skills fail to get me where I want to be. I might not be as good at it but I can get by when I have to.

    I do have a problem doing weird stuff like speaking up in places where I know no one, like at the immigration office (for example). I am not very vocal when it comes to practical stuff. I just wait and wait and wait. I like it when someone else is with me and will speak up if they see I am not going to. If I am familiar with the place or people I am not as timid. I am just bad when it comes to situations where I have little to no experience. I appreciate someone who can get a quick read on the situation and confidently take over when I am not sure how it works or what I should do when things aren't going my way. Someone who makes me stand up for myself.

    I also want to add that Fe makes a fine substitute for Se when I need to deal with people and can't be as forceful as I might like to be but I am less likely to use Fe when I am in unfamiliar situations. I need to observe for awhile. See who I can approach and who to stay away from.]


    IEIs are awed in the face of someone adept at using their willpower or position and exercising their will in opposition to others. IEIs are drawn to people who exude this self-confidence and personal presence; just being with them is enlivening. These are the people who dream big dreams and are capable of achieving them, who aren't fazed by the obstacles that so often stand in the IEI's path. [Pretty much but not always awed... I am too used to it to be awed all the time. hahah More like moderately impressed and/or amused which kind of makes me want to impress them, in some way, in return unless I don't vibe with them or in a really bad mood. Then I kind of want to oppose them in some way.]

    The IEIs' own world is one of indecision and hesitation when it comes to taking action and striking out on their own. [I guess this works when I look back but I never realized I was responding to other people's desires because I really wanted my freedom anyway and I thought I was being my own person.] What best removes this hesitation is when someone else really wants them to do something. The IEI then relies on [enthusiastically (sometimes) responds to] the other person's strong desire to mobilize them to action, as if the force of their desire were their own. [There have been people who made me feel like I had no will of my own and I liked it that way. It is like I willingly gave mine over to them, usually when I am completely infatuated. That kind tends to wear off over time. I kind of assumed a lot of people are like that in the early stages of relationships. I can take someone else' desire for me, into myself. It can motivate me when I feel I have no energy of my own. My best friend was SLE and she could get me out of bed and out the door faster than anyone and I didn't resent it.]
    The individual is often characterized by his inertia. If left to his own devices, he may choose to do relatively little to interact with the outside world. When he does interact with the outside world, he often finds his activities to be empty and unfulfilling. To this individual, life is often characterized by periods of stimulation. For him, however, true stimulation is often spontaneous, and interludes between periods of stimulation are often characterized by tedium, inertia, and apathy. He is often not very adept at finding new areas of interest, and may seek to continue to reproduce past experiences instead of moving on to new things. In order to break out of this cycle, he requires an outside stimulus of spontaneity and activity. With such a degree of spontaneity introduced into his life, the tedium and perceived meaninglessness is replaced by a constant state of activity in which he can experience new things and escape from the confines of his own mind.

    He is additionally very indecisive. He may lack the ability to make important decisions, especially with regards to his own future. He may know what he wants to achieve out of life in a broad or long term sense, but will find it very difficult to set and finish the short term projects leading to it. In order to be able to act, he needs a tangible and definite stimulus from somebody well grounded in external reality and who has a clear picture of what must be done in a certain situation.
    I don't want to be nagged though and there is a difference. Whiny people and parents nag. I don't need a parent or a whiner. I guess I want to be motivated and inspired to action by someone's else's strength and power. Nagging bugs the hell out of me and I will refuse to budge. I also don't like being babied and nagging someone is treating them like a child.

    It also depends on the person. Some people will try to push me and I will just tune them out. Another person can push me and I respond to their desire for me to do something and I will actually believe I really want to do it, even if I didn't think I did before. The right person can get me to do just about anything. The wrong person will get nothing (drive your own getaway car!).

    I was actually telling a couple forum members this morning about a situation where someone else wanted me to do something and despite me thinking "no way, not gonna happen." I did it and not only did I do it, I liked it. The more wishy washy someone gets with me, the less motivation I have to follow through with an action or follow their lead and I will withdraw completely. I do sort of need them to want it enough for both of us, until I build my own momentum. Wishy washiness in others kind of leaves me empty and cold. I know that is hypocritical but it is what it is.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I guess I want to be motivated and inspired to action by someone's else's strength and power. Nagging bugs the hell out of me and I will refuse to budge. I also don't like being babied and nagging someone is treating them like a child.
    "strength and power" is part of authority, plus some forcing (cookie or whip motivation). All this is uncluded in parrents work. You have no escape from "treating them like a child", want it and like it.
    Everything what you want and get from others may be called as "care", essencially close to what you've gotten from parents and other adults of your family. There is no other psychical model. Your boss, teacher, trainer, spouse, friends, - all have association with parrents in your subconsciousness. Even your care about yourself has it. The better your parrents were, the more similarity you'll find with what is called friendship.
    In past, in pre-industrial time, when individualism was not so significant, association of authorities and friends with family relations was more clear, - your boss could be directly called as "father" and your friends as "brothers", you could do ritual of mixing your blood with them, etc. You may find these terms reading about past. Today situation is historically short and is unnatural, these associations just more go to your subconsciousness.
    Super-id in Socionics is sometimes called as "child block", - it's where you want to get help and care from others. Because the main association with care is parrents' care. And your archaic behavior in weak functions reminds children's behavior in significant degree, because it's close to the level children have. You feel other when you see in T types naive and primitive emotional expression? You don't get from them the impression "men are like children"? I'm sure you do.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    "strength and power" is part of authority, plus some forcing (cookie or whip motivation). All this is uncluded in parrents work. You have no escape from "treating them like a child", want it and like it.
    Everything what you want and get from others may be called as "care", essencially close to what you've gotten from parents and other adults of your family. There is no other psychical model. Your boss, teacher, trainer, spouse, friends, - all have association with parrents in your subconsciousness. Even your care about yourself has it. The better your parrents were, the more similarity you'll find with what is called friendship.
    In past, in pre-industrial time, when individualism was not so significant, association of authorities and friends with family relations was more clear, - your boss could be directly called as "father" and your friends as "brothers", you could do ritual of mixing your blood with them, etc. You may find these terms reading about past. Today situation is historically short and is unnatural, these associations just more go to your subconsciousness.
    Super-id in Socionics is sometimes called as "child block", - it's where you want to get help and care from others. Because the main association with care is parrents' care. And your archaic behavior in weak functions reminds children's behavior in significant degree, because it's close to the level children have. You feel other when you see in T types naive and primitive emotional expression? You don't get from them the impression "men are like children"? I'm sure you do.
    sle are good about not treating their mate like a child. they leave someone who doesn't feel like doing something alone until ready

    she doesn't have to want it or like it. her mates not a caregiver. sle don't order people around. they ask "could you please get this for me?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilac View Post
    Someone to give me will power. To push me for sure. I love that in guys I date especially.
    hum i still don't know still seems more sei

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    "strength and power" is part of authority, plus some forcing (cookie or whip motivation). All this is uncluded in parrents work. You have no escape from "treating them like a child", want it and like it.
    Everything what you want and get from others may be called as "care", essencially close to what you've gotten from parents and other adults of your family. There is no other psychical model. Your boss, teacher, trainer, spouse, friends, - all have association with parrents in your subconsciousness. Even your care about yourself has it. The better your parrents were, the more similarity you'll find with what is called friendship.
    In past, in pre-industrial time, when individualism was not so significant, association of authorities and friends with family relations was more clear, - your boss could be directly called as "father" and your friends as "brothers", you could do ritual of mixing your blood with them, etc. You may find these terms reading about past. Today situation is historically short and is unnatural, these associations just more go to your subconsciousness.
    Super-id in Socionics is sometimes called as "child block", - it's where you want to get help and care from others. Because the main association with care is parrents' care. And your archaic behavior in weak functions reminds children's behavior in significant degree, because it's close to the level children have. You feel other when you see in T types naive and primitive emotional expression? You don't get from them the impression "men are like children"? I'm sure you do.
    Let's take a journey into this...

    I had very good parents but they were not perfect. Even though my stepdad is dead I still admire him and see him as a role model. I also admire my mom, now, but we were in a constant battle of wills when I was a teen. I wanted my freedom from family and adult rules. I think you just inspired an insight though. I always thought my mom was battling against my will alone but it is more likely she was battling my will which had been emboldened by whoever I was spending time with. Usually a boyfriend. Most of my rebelliousness centered around one boy or another.

    Before I liked boys I was a nerdy little angel who sat in her room reading romantic literature, like Shakespeare, or playing with Barbie dolls for hours. I created very deep and meaningful lives for my dolls. They had sorrow and heartbreak and they had major victories. They worked out their problems. They talked about philosophy and psychology. My dolls taught me a lot about life. Their lives were very symbolic of all the information I had soaked up, like a sponge, by eavesdropping on adults. lol I even had them have affairs and break up. Then they would co-parent their children and get along for the sake of. My dolls had a lot of drama in their lives and I saw myself as their "GOD" because I made good and bad things happen. I do hope they are happy now that they are no longer part of the "Aylen" religion.

    My mom was stressed a lot before she remarried so she was a NAG. My stepdad was not a nag but he was strict and if you didn't live by his rules you could go somewhere else. I give him credit for not wanting to kill me, in the beginning. I was already out of control when they met. I was 13. She is LSI and she was not very comfortable giving affection, at least to to her first set of kids. She was way more affectionate with the second set and much calmer with my stepdad around. I was grateful she found him, since he chilled her out. He was ILI and not comfortable giving affection. He would have us girls comfort my little brother when he realized his punishment was too harsh. He had a heart. He just wasn't sure how to be affectionate.

    I know my parents loved us all more than life itself and would do anything for is. They just didn't baby us. My mom did however baby my little brother who was part of the second set of children. He is also IEI and she didn't do him any favors because he still acts like a baby so yes I see some men acting like children.

    If I close my eyes, and use my imagination, I can kind of see my mom reaching out to hug or comfort us (my middle sister and me) once, without it feeling unnatural. She was an excellent provider and protector of us though. She did not let other kids get away with hurting us and she would also go after their parents and tell them exactly what she thought about them and their kids.

    She had a blindspot when it came to me. It was never my fault. She blamed all my bad behavior on bad influences/my friends. I think my mom would probably be arrested if she had young children and intervened in their fights now. Times have changed. I saw her pull a boy around by his ear until he was screaming. The kid had hurt my sister and made my her cry. My mom made him cry and embarrassed him too. She was unapologetic about it. I thought she was going to kill a boy she caught me kissing in the back seat of her car, when I was 12. I guess I would do the same if it were my child since he was 18 and shouldn't have been in the car with me. Lots of other stories like that before she got remarried.

    My aunt helped raise me and she was more authoritarian in the traditional sense of the word. I now type her ESI after going through a couple Fi types. She is also the authority figure I was most scared of, until I hit 12 years old and I went rebel child on my family. I have been kind of anti-authority for as long as I can remember so it is interesting you bring up authority. You are right I was still following some kind of "authority" but because I was willing it did not feel like authority.

    I do not like to babied or talked down to and I never have. I always wanted to know what the adults were up to. I don't want someone repeating themselves over and over telling me what to do. Once or twice is fine. I am an adult and I know when some things need to be done. When someone nags it is because they want something done when they want it done but I also have my own stuff to do. Tell me once then leave me a post it note (seriously they are great). If I haven't done it yet, there is a reason. Some things do not need an immediate response. If they would take a breath, and think for a moment, they would see it too. Chill baby chill, I will get to it and most likely meet any deadlines.

    I don't need micromanagement. I need space to think and sort things out. I have a good sense of the timing. I always have. Nags are not welcome. I also have no problem asking for help, like an adult. I don't whine and nag when I want something from someone. I might bribe, sincerely flatter or even threaten (like I have to do with my brother) to get something done but I won't nag.

    I prefer to simply ask and then wait for it. Knowing what people respond to and using it is the best way to get them to do what you want. I wish people paid attention to what I respond to and used that to get me to do things. They would be much happier for it and so would I. Some people are VERY good at noticing what moves me to action and I like that they take full advantage of it as long as it is not meant to hurt me or anyone else.

    I do like to be taken care of when I am sick or just feeling blah. I feel weak like a little child when I am sick and I can get a bit whiny myself. I also like when people make dinner and do other little things that I am not inclined to do for myself. I appreciate that and I don't see it as babying me. I do my share as well.


    Edit: @lilac if you are who I think you are then you are probably Beta NF. I think I typed you IEI, sx first, before. If you are not the same person then I will have to wait and see how things unfold before making a guess.
    Last edited by Aylen; 06-17-2016 at 03:44 PM.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    hum i still don't know still seems more sei
    My quick first impression was Alpha SF. I had not read everything. But I saw her profile picture and I associated her with someone else. I am not sure, of my first impression, now since that person was probably Beta NF. lol

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    I like people I trust directing me, even lecturing me. As long as it's done with my acceptance of their influence/"authority" because I trust they can do it in a way I find respectful, consistent and fair.

    Meaning if my mum tells me what to wear at 17, to study, I obey as I accept her authority being a minor, but if she does so at 18 when I leave for college, I begin negotiations and gradually set my boundaries. Or if I'm dating a guy and he likes teaching/telling me what to do, if I trust that he is smarter than me (I don't date any other way) I will genuinely enjoy that. A lot. But if said guy imposes on an area I don't want touched like say what I read, or who my friends are, I draw boundaries and remove him if he does not accept that.
    And if he (or anyone I accept as authority) is trying to take control in an area I think I do/know BETTER, I gently let him know he is wrong and leave it be. As his pride slowly relaxes, I then convince him my idea is his idea.

    If I don't trust the person to "be in charge", or "tell me what to do", I don't mind being lectured, but only because I validate them as far as I can while giving me the lecture, and just ignore them later. If so called "nagging" persist I explain to stop and oppose, if it still persists, I slowly push the person away.
    If said person I don't see as "someone I can trust to push me forward" is trying to aggressively/passive aggressively control me, I push back but "only enough" and no more... Doing my best to keep the peace, but clearly letting them know they are crossing the line. If you are clear and 100% consistent, it will rarely escalate into a problem.


    So it's how I handle people I bring into my life and those I have no choice with. Not sure if this helps you guys.

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    lilac may look at her duals among ESTP. she'll have not much choice to allow them something or not. it's not the type which respects the freedom of personality
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    lilac may look at her duals among ESTP. she'll have not much choice to allow them something or not. it's not the type which respects the freedom of personality
    The part in bold is a joke, right? I am not always sure how to take you when you make these comments, because of your archaic beliefs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilac View Post
    I like people I trust directing me, even lecturing me. As long as it's done with my acceptance of their influence/"authority" because I trust they can do it in a way I find respectful, consistent and fair.

    Meaning if my mum tells me what to wear at 17, to study, I obey as I accept her authority being a minor, but if she does so at 18 when I leave for college, I begin negotiations and gradually set my boundaries. Or if I'm dating a guy and he likes teaching/telling me what to do, if I trust that he is smarter than me (I don't date any other way) I will genuinely enjoy that. A lot. But if said guy imposes on an area I don't want touched like say what I read, or who my friends are, I draw boundaries and remove him if he does not accept that.
    And if he (or anyone I accept as authority) is trying to take control in an area I think I do/know BETTER, I gently let him know he is wrong and leave it be. As his pride slowly relaxes, I then convince him my idea is his idea.

    If I don't trust the person to "be in charge", or "tell me what to do", I don't mind being lectured, but only because I validate them as far as I can while giving me the lecture, and just ignore them later. If so called "nagging" persist I explain to stop and oppose, if it still persists, I slowly push the person away.
    If said person I don't see as "someone I can trust to push me forward" is trying to aggressively/passive aggressively control me, I push back but "only enough" and no more... Doing my best to keep the peace, but clearly letting them know they are crossing the line. If you are clear and 100% consistent, it will rarely escalate into a problem.

    So it's how I handle people I bring into my life and those I have no choice with. Not sure if this helps you guys.
    I may have mistaken you for someone else who no longer posts (she was outspoken, feisty and you seem more passive and controlled). You certainly look a lot like her. I think. Maybe, consider alpha SFs, like @Maritsa suggested AND all the NFs, including EII. It is probably going to be a process of elimination. Read about the functions and not just the behaviour. Then post insight in this thread, if you don't lose interest in it.

    Certain behavior can apply to several types. Read Jung's interpretation of the functions too. It seems you highly value intelligence and authority. You want someone who knows what they are lecturing you about. Maybe even an intellectual. SLE is not the first type that comes to mind when I think intellectual and lecturing. No offense to SLE, you guys are awesome and very intelligent. I just don't see you guys as intellectual types, usually. I associate the word "lecture" with academia so there's that too. SLE can read people pretty well and they can usually see through manipulations. They may accept it from their duals but they are just as likely to call it out for what it is. Often with a smile on their face. Think of sensing both Si and Se as a type of body intuition.

    I don't see much Fe in your posts (we are online so I am not putting much weight on that) so Alpha SF might be totally off. I actually think you may have stronger Fi. Have you considered your enneagram type yet? That might explain why I am getting certain vibes from your op. You do not come off as Te polr and I am not exactly feeling ESE in your posts either. I don't see you as Ni polr.

    This post even makes me think you would be fine with an LSE taking charge, instructing/guiding you if you accept their authority. You would be gentle if they crossed your boundaries and give them time for their pride to relax, then you would guide them in what is appropriate. EII are good at this with their duals. This reminds me of things Maritsa has said. You also mention age appropriate boundaries and negotiations. A lot of what you say here would also apply to a couple of EII I know.

    There is one other person you kind of remind me of, a little bit. Fay. I am unsure of her type as well. I think she is an NF. She used to type EII but she is not around lately, so I am not sure what she is self typing these days. I feel her values are more delta than beta but she could be IEI. As I read your op, I felt this person values logic, highly, so I am not sure what to do with that either. If you post more in other threads I think it may become clear what your values are.

    Edit: I went through a phase where I highly valued "intellectual" types. It was a phase though. When you reference 17-18 years old, it made me think you are still in your late teens to very early 20s.
    Last edited by Aylen; 06-18-2016 at 05:19 PM.

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    lilac reminds tuathe
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I may have mistaken you for someone else who no longer posts (she was outspoken, feisty and you seem more passive and controlled). You certainly look a lot like her. I think. Maybe, consider alpha SFs, like @Maritsa suggested AND all the NFs, including EII. It is probably going to be a process of elimination. Read about the functions and not just the behaviour. Then post insight in this thread, if you don't lose interest in it.
    Hmmm.. I did read functions too, I self typed before. Dumas SEI, Yesenin IEI and Dostoevsky EII all came into consideration based on descriptions. IEI was most attractive function wise, but EII description hit home with me the most. Only I found EII to be more like my surface self presentation, as on the inside I enjoy excitement and am much more attracted to provocative, passionate and "out there" ways of thinking and living (tho I rarely live that way). EII seem, forgive me but, quite boring, too sensitive and just restrained overall. I know I look fragile, polite and meek, but I'm a goofball, childlike for purposes of messing with people and charming them, dreaming of excitement and travel and very fond of everything provocative and controversial if said idea/activity is not dumb.
    I am also sensitive, a crybaby and expect a certain level of gentleness and sensitivity from people when they deal with me, but if treated TOO politely and tenderly, I get bored and go looking for a bear to poke... (only to end up crying again if the bear decides to get really angry)

    Certain behavior can apply to several types. Read Jung's interpretation of the functions too. It seems you highly value intelligence and authority. You want someone who knows what they are lecturing you about. Maybe even an intellectual. SLE is not the first type that comes to mind when I think intellectual and lecturing. No offense to SLE, you guys are awesome and very intelligent. I just don't see you guys as intellectual types, usually. I associate the word "lecture" with academia so there's that too. SLE can read people pretty well and they can usually see through manipulations. They may accept it from their duals but they are just as likely to call it out for what it is. Often with a smile on their face. Think of sensing both Si and Se as a type of body intuition.
    Intellectuals (especially self proclaimed ones) annoy me intensely. People who put all their pride in their intellect and go above and beyond to demonstrate how intellectually superior they are, are usually nerds with strong memories and low IQs overcompensating for the fact that they don't have any common sense.

    People who I have found to be the smartest I have ever met, have all been people with simplest, to-the-point expression without the need to SOUND smart, because they simply are smart. People with ability to cut trough mental masturbation, not afraid to clarify and defend their stance without pride involved (read: people who don't pretend to be dispassionate when they are not).

    I don't see much Fe in your posts (we are online so I am not putting much weight on that) so Alpha SF might be totally off. I actually think you may have stronger Fi. Have you considered your enneagram type yet? That might explain why I am getting certain vibes from your op. You do not come off as Te polr and I am not exactly feeling ESE in your posts either. I don't see you as Ni polr.
    Enneagram 2 I am pretty sure.

    This post even makes me think you would be fine with an LSE taking charge, instructing/guiding you if you accept their authority. You would be gentle if they crossed your boundaries and give them time for their pride to relax, then you would guide them in what is appropriate. EII are good at this with their duals. This reminds me of things Maritsa has said. You also mention age appropriate boundaries and negotiations. A lot of what you say here would also apply to a couple of EII I know.
    Their description on that wikisocion page really did hit home with me. I actually joined a Delta group on Facebook, but they said I was a Beta fox in the chicken coop and then kicked me out because I hurt their feelings. Now I could still be Delta and people I met on there were just too sensitive as I didn't do anything else but disagree with them. I can't tell you.
    I moved to the Beta group by force and people there are much more understanding. We hung out on Skype it was nice.

    There is one other person you kind of remind me of, a little bit. Fay. I am unsure of her type as well. I think she is an NF. She used to type EII but she is not around lately, so I am not sure what she is self typing these days. I feel her values are more delta than beta but she could be IEI. As I read your op, I felt this person values logic, highly, so I am not sure what to do with that either. If you post more in other threads I think it may become clear what your values are.
    Mostly forget to post on forums, but I will make a mental note to come here and participate in the future more. ^^

    Edit: I went through a phase where I highly valued "intellectual" types. It was a phase though. When you reference 17-18 years old, it made me think you are still in your late teens to very early 20s.
    Me too, in my early teens. 13-15 y/o.

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    I should also note that all the guys I have ever found attractive have been somewhat stoic/serious, 80% of them socially introverted, very handy-capable-physically skilled, daredevil/break your limbs for the sake of adventure/training/adrenaline, impressive strong personalities without actually being constantly imposing and flashy on purpose... Not sure if this helps as well?

    I might be an extrovert if I like socially introverted guys? But if I were to go the extrovert route, I'd never know where to look.

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