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Thread: LSE and not liking

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    Default LSE and not liking

    LSE don't like someone questioning them. "Why won't you decide to do this?" Ect what is it about people who need to feel that sense of authority acting like complete ass holes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    LSE don't like someone questioning them. "Why won't you decide to do this?"
    Rational T types should not to have difficulties to explain why they do or do not do something.

    what is it about people who need to feel that sense of authority acting like complete ass holes?
    From types side the main reason for systematic behavior which you perceive as outside of "rules of play" is not the best IR.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Rational T types should not to have difficulties to explain why they do or do not do something.



    From types side the main reason for systematic behavior which you perceive as outside of "rules of play" is not the best IR.
    I don't have rules of play. Relationships to me are not a game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Rational T types should not to have difficulties to explain why they do or do not do something.



    From types side the main reason for systematic behavior which you perceive as outside of "rules of play" is not the best IR.
    Maybe it's not type related. Maybe it has to do with lack of consideration for someone else

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I don't have rules of play.
    It's what you think as fair, good, reasonable behavior. Any IR, except duals, have permanent conflict of "rules of play".
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    It's what you think as fair, good, reasonable behavior. Any IR, except duals, have permanent conflict of "rules of play".
    Yes That's called morals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    It's what you think as fair, good, reasonable behavior. Any IR, except duals, have permanent conflict of "rules of play".
    So what is the "rules of play" for LSE

    You seem to have a generalised concept that all LSE have the same rules of play. So tell me what is that rule

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    The rule is "don't question me because I'm all knowing and I'm always right"?

    Hum, if that's the case how many times have they been wrong and not admitted it? Could they have set themselves up to be right with cooperative listening that more often they could have actually been right as opposed to flat out WRONG.

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    I forgot, I think this is attributed to childish stubbornness to be right against like odds that they are wrong only wanting other to patiently waiting until the right that denied proves to be true indeed. Stubbornness and unwilling to see the bigger implications wins.

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    ......time for coffee

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Yes That's called morals.
    Moral is more objective term, social thing. "Rules of play" - it's yours rules, in spite what others think or say. It's what you like, what is good for you, what you wish to see in others. Something can be thought as moral where you live, but you may don't like it anyway and vice versa.

    Maybe it's not type related.
    What you described is not common for LSE, while you say about typical behavior. Rational T types more than other types have in consciousness the reasonalbe basis for what they do, and hence easily may give the explanation.
    It's similarly as one would ask you what do you think about moral side of your behavior. Taking into account your rational F type, I'm sure you'd have no difficulty to answer.

    You seem to have a generalised concept that all LSE have the same rules of play.
    Same rules related to types. Duals - too. But this is outside of the theme.
    As you are changing the theme, I suppose you've gotten the all needed answers. As I said earlier, your "LSE" is doubtful to be it.
    Last edited by Sol; 06-06-2016 at 06:43 PM.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Actually, LSEs often have been willing to listen to my point of view. Sometimes they have given me sincere appreciation for my ideas and abilities. The problem has been that they usually haven't been able to incorporate what I say into their actions, because we're operating in very different frameworks. LSEs and I often arrive at the same conclusions, but our ways of getting there differ somehow.

    My point is that I'm not sure what you're describing is about LSEs per se. Maybe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    Actually, LSEs often have been willing to listen to my point of view. Sometimes they have given me sincere appreciation for my ideas and abilities. The problem has been that they usually haven't been able to incorporate what I say into their actions, because we're operating in very different frameworks. LSEs and I often arrive at the same conclusions, but our ways of getting there differ somehow.

    My point is that I'm not sure what you're describing is about LSEs per se. Maybe?
    I think that you misunderstood the post, Golden.

    Example an LSE won't take their gf to their place of work. When asked why may say "don't question why I'm not doing that"

    That's just an example

    When an explanation is sought after...this is a typical response.

    It's "I've decided why I don't want to do this and I don't want my authority questioned."

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    Hi Maritsa, I hope you don't feel like I am stalking you, telling you your LSE commentaries aren't LSE all the time, but here I go once again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I think that you misunderstood the post, Golden.
    I agree with what Golden said about LSE. What she said is 100% consistent with the LSEs I know. Particularly using my LSE brother as an example since he is so very completely LSE, also, the husband of new couple friends we know from church (pretty sure he:LSE and she:SEI) who is also "very LSE" - LSEs are willing to listen to other's point of view. They do not tell people what to do or not do or say or not say, unless its for a good practical reason. It woudl have to be a VERY compelling reasonable reason, too. Also, I have a long time girlfriend who is LSE, and she also would never deny a person their say, or not respond to the thing they were saying but use her "authority" to deny it. And she is authoritative!

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Example an LSE won't take their gf to their place of work. When asked why may say "don't question why I'm not doing that"
    No. LSE woudl NOT say that. If he didn't want to take his girlfriend to work he woudl start questioning HER: "Why do you wan tto come to work? What woudl you do?" Etc. But he woudl NOT be authoritarian about it. The authoritarian way of the response you got is a ANOTHER red flag for this not-LSE, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    That's just an example

    When an explanation is sought after...this is a typical response.
    LSE would not give that response. Ask @Director Abbie !

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    It's "I've decided why I don't want to do this and I don't want my authority questioned."
    Wow. That sounds my Narcissist ESE ex. Its very dismissive and I can tell you its really depressing to be married to a guy like this. I am not blaming this behavior on him being ESE type which is what I have often thought for your guy - because my ESE friends who are not like this at all. However, this LSE guy that I consider not LSE but ESE - he has a lot of traits like my Narcissist ESE ex.. Too many! So that I was very sorry to see you are "on again" with him. I would rather you be single, so that when your Mr. Right comes along, you aren't tied up with Bozo. I feel I have to say it because I know that all of the EIIs have made the mistake of hanging on to the wrong guy for WAY too long. In two cases: married the wrong guy, despite warning signs others could see, too. You EII's hang on TOO LONG when its too clear its wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    You EII's hang on TOO LONG when its too clear its wrong.
    Ahaha. Haha. Ha...

    That's Ij, Fi+Ne for you. Or even just Ij Fi. Kind of built for hanging onto the tough ones. It's just, which are the right tough ones? That can be difficult to establish when you're in the thick of it. That's where it can be helpful to have friends who share values but are separate from the situation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Moral is more objective term, social thing. "Rules of play" - it's yours rules, in spite what others think or say. It's what you like, what is good for you, what you wish to see in others. Something can be thought as moral where you live, but you may don't like it anyway and vice versa.



    What you described is not common for LSE, while you say about typical behavior. Rational T types more than other types have in consciousness the reasonalbe basis for what they do, and hence easily may give the explanation.
    It's similarly as one would ask you what do you think about moral side of your behavior. Taking into account your rational F type, I'm sure you'd have no difficulty to answer.



    Same rules related to types. Duals - too. But this is outside of the theme.
    As you are changing the theme, I suppose you've gotten the all needed answers. As I said earlier, your "LSE" is doubtful to be it.
    I'm sure that he has a reasonable basis for what he does. He just won't tell me what those are

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Ahaha. Haha. Ha...

    That's Ij, Fi+Ne for you. Or even just Ij Fi. Kind of built for hanging onto the tough ones. It's just, which are the right tough ones? That can be difficult to establish when you're in the thick of it. That's where it can be helpful to have friends who share values but are separate from the situation.
    All kinds of types stick around for all kinds of reasons. The traditional types do so because of commitment, inertia of Ej energy; the experience types create distance by doing their own things. The Ip because they adapt and go along. And, the ij because I'm stable in my commitment to someone and don't back out easily. Mostly Fi for love. I do complain about some things to my friends for support but I won't ruined my relationship over it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I'm sure that he has a reasonable basis for what he does. He just won't tell me what those are
    I will admit this worries me a bit, too. What would be a legitimate reason to not explain why a gf can't come to the workplace? If he has a reasonable basis for decisions, there is no reason not to explain.

    This does not sounds LSE to me, but rather like someone who either has something to hide or gets off on being "an authority" and controlling. Please don't use Socionics to excuse crappy behavior (I say this because I have done this plenty of times).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I think that you misunderstood the post, Golden.

    Example an LSE won't take their gf to their place of work. When asked why may say "don't question why I'm not doing that"

    That's just an example

    When an explanation is sought after...this is a typical response.

    It's "I've decided why I don't want to do this and I don't want my authority questioned."
    I would definitely think he has something to hide. There is no reason not to tell you unless it is "top secret" which I don't think is the case here. It if fine not to bring anyone to your place of employment because it is not common to do so or it would be a distraction. It would be too simple to tell you that it is not acceptable to bring romantic partners or anyone else to his job. Don't put up with this. You deserve better than that.

    I don't think this is points to him being LSE, ESE, (the ESE I know do not behave like this) or any other type, other than a controlling type with a sadistic streak. If he does not care it is hurtful to you then something is seriously wrong. You DO NOT intentionally hurt people you love (unless some kind of sado/masochistic/master/slave thing agreed upon)... period. If you do you need help. He does not respect you. This is very disconcerting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I'm sure that he has a reasonable basis for what he does. He just won't tell me what those are
    I worked with an LSE for a while. He was a mechanical engineer, just out of grad school, and was dating a woman who was obviously devoted to him. She would sometimes come to get him at work, and as soon as she showed up, he would rush her out without introducing her to anyone. I thought he showed her some disrespect, but she either didn't see it or didn't seem to mind. He talked as if he wanted to date other women and wasn't ready to settle down, but I never saw him with anyone else. He talked far more about his collection of mechanical watches than he did of her. In fact, he never mentioned her at all.

    After a few months of this, he and I were talking in the parking lot when she pulled up to pick him up, and he quickly introduced us, but then he hurried off with her.

    I asked him why he didn't marry her, since he was obviously going with her and she really looked up to him, and he evaded answering the question.

    Eventually, he quit and a few months later, when I called him about some issue, he mentioned that they were married.

    I think it is safe to say that most LSE don't talk about their personal life very much, and their feelings not at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    All kinds of types stick around for all kinds of reasons. The traditional types do so because of commitment, inertia of Ej energy; the experience types create distance by doing their own things. The Ip because they adapt and go along. And, the ij because I'm stable in my commitment to someone and don't back out easily. Mostly Fi for love. I do complain about some things to my friends for support but I won't ruined my relationship over it.
    I agree that people stay for many reasons including things like financial security. Keep in mind that you are not the one ruining the relationship. It sounds like he is doing a good job on his own. You two have a serious communication problem and if you don't sort it out soon, nothing will change and it will probably escalate. If he does not show you the respect of listening to your concerns and feelings then you might need to get some counseling. He does not seem the type to go for that though. Your posts about him almost seem like there is an element of fear on your part. Maybe it is time for introspection first, then communicate what you discover to him. If he does not listen then I think you have the answer.

    I am assuming you are the reasonable one in this relationship and not bugging him constantly to the point that he has just shut down and does not want to talk to you. Obviously I don't know his side but I really don't feel I need to hear his side, in this case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    All kinds of types stick around for all kinds of reasons. The traditional types do so because of commitment, inertia of Ej energy; the experience types create distance by doing their own things. The Ip because they adapt and go along. And, the ij because I'm stable in my commitment to someone and don't back out easily. Mostly Fi for love. I do complain about some things to my friends for support but I won't ruined my relationship over it.
    Its true all kinds of types stick around for different reasons. I think the "Fi for love" is the most persistent reason, and I think that is why I have noticed again and again EIIs being fools for love, toughing it out with the tough guys who are tough because they really aren't cut out for relationships, for one reason or another, and are not worth Ij's commitment. Its as if EIIs think love conquers all, or that if they love well enough the guy will become better??

    @Aylen, I want also to make sure I do not leave the impression that the Lumox's behavior is characteristic of ESE - just characteristic of my Narcissist-ESE ex. I have ESE friends I have known well and long who are not all, not one bit like this, ever, which I why I qualified it with "narcissist"...
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    LSE would not give that response. Ask @Director Abbie !
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Example an LSE won't take their gf to their place of work. When asked why may say "don't question why I'm not doing that"

    It's "I've decided why I don't want to do this and I don't want my authority questioned."
    Wouldn't give this response? I wouldn't necessarily say an LSE would never give a response like that. They might if feeling stressed, snappish, and/or disrespectful.

    I do like to be questioned. But I also like for my answers to be accepted readily. Like if my SEI brother asks why I'm adding onions to a dish, and I say it's because I don't want to add celery, he'll just say "okay" and move on. If someone demands a lengthy explanation when I'm busy, it might irritate me. (So I'll offer other quick explanations that have less and less to do with reality until they get the idea. "Because they're white." "Because food." "Because I'm not a Communist." "Because of shoes.")

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Wouldn't give this response? I wouldn't necessarily say an LSE would never give a response like that. They might if feeling stressed, snappish, and/or disrespectful.

    I do like to be questioned. But I also like for my answers to be accepted readily. Like if my SEI brother asks why I'm adding onions to a dish, and I say it's because I don't want to add celery, he'll just say "okay" and move on. If someone demands a lengthy explanation when I'm busy, it might irritate me. (So I'll offer other quick explanations that have less and less to do with reality until they get the idea. "Because they're white." "Because food." "Because I'm not a Communist." "Because of shoes.")
    Did you really say "communist" lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Did you really say "communist" lol
    Probably not, but that's not something I wouldn't say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Probably not, but that's not something I wouldn't say.
    That's exactly what a communist would want us to think!

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