Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Hitta's Multiverse

  1. #1
    The Troll Slayer Hitta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    In your mom's uterus
    Posts
    4,009
    Mentioned
    153 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default Hitta's Multiverse

    Fair warning in advance, I hope I don’t break your brain.

    I start this with a few thought experiments to warm you up, I’ve probably gone over these before but I will be more descriptive here.

    Mind body paradox: Say someone knocks on your door. The person at the door says that they have something that they want to show you. So from behind them they pull forward a box. You open the box, and inside is something you’ve never seen before. Like all things that are new, the object makes an initial impression to you. As you more carefully examine the object, you notice things about it that are similar to other things that you’ve encountered before. Slowly the picture becomes a bit less hazy. You pick up the object. You begin to press and spin all the various things on the object. As you do this, you develop a working idea of how the object works, what it does, etc. This is the process of all learning. The totality of previous environment encounters come together, are scrutinized, and reconfigured in order to interpret novel aspects of the environment. All new things encountered from the point of view of the observer are a reconfiguration of what is already inherent within the observer. Now say that you went all the way back in time, peeling back the layers of all your experiences. Would the origin point not have influenced every single subsequent interaction that occurred and as a result wouldn’t every single interaction that happens within one’s life be observed with personalized meaning attached to it.

    As a result, how could one ever be completely objective? Object definitions that we take for granted as being highly defined in concrete in actuality would be creations of a subjective reference. An everyday chair, when we see a chair we all think… this is a chair. Does every individual see the chair the same way? Do they have the same experiences attached to the idea of a chair? Perhaps the concept of the chair that we hold so dearly to us humans is just our intricate shared periphery of meaning overlapping to create something that is apparently concrete. And this brings me to the next paradox.

    General Relativity and the spatial paradox: This may sound like a bizarre question, but what exactly is space? Can you see space? Is there a physical quality to space? Hold your two index fingers up next to each other about a foot apart. Your fingers would define the spatial boundaries. Can you see the space between your fingers or do you just see your monitor in the background reflecting certain wavelengths back to your eyes. Space is a very odd thing to identify, as really the only known way to qualify it is to say that it is the area between two objects. This is why Einstein defined space-time. Each object in the universe must have 3 criteria in relationship to every single other object in the universe. Relative distance, relative direction (three dimension coordinates), and relative motion (velocity, acceleration, jerk, etc). Now let’s rewind all the way back to the beginning of the big bang. Supposedly there was a singularity (which quite frankly I believe to be a paradoxical state, and is the same problem they have with singularities in black holes). Supposedly in this singularity there was no mass, no volume, and no space. Moments (which saying the word moments is quite frankly a weird thing to say because of the relativity of time) after the big bang, mass came to be. Now I don’t believe this is what happened, but I’m going to use it as a building block for another point I want to make in regards to the universe. The singularity explodes, becomes massive and as a result defines the bounds of space by creating duality. Two becomes four, four becomes 8, 8 becomes 16(I’m stating it this way because there is a very complicated nucleosynthesis process that occurred that I don’t feel like getting into… the point is that things become more and more diverse… plurality/chaos occurs as the universe goes to a state of higher entropy). One thing to understand is that every single object becomes defined by its relationship to every other object within the space time continuum. And as the universe’s entropy has grown, that standard has not changed… every object is still a reflection of all the other objects. The only difference is that the number of objects and connections have changed. Modern science has shown that the big crunch is unlikely (though possible). There are a ton of theories about the ultimate fate of the universe. While I’m not going to get into a discourse of that(Big Freeze, Big Slurp, Big Rip, Big Cock Slap), imagine a state of the universe where every form of mass eventually decays into energy(even the leptons which seem stable and would take an incredibly long amount of time for them to decay if at all possible). As the mass breaks down, the way that time flows would be altered as the relativity would be changed. The concept of space would break down. The rate of time would approach infinity (oddly as a person gets older the rate of time speeds up as well). I’m not going to get deep into Penrose’s cyclical conformal model, which I quite like (also think the Big Slurp is rather plausible as well), but he asserts that at this time, as the relativity that holds the universe together is stressed, the conceptual boundaries of the universe would reorganize. This state of near maximum entropy would effectively become squashed into a singularity in which would have a state of near minimum entropy.

    If you don’t like this discourse, let me summarize the point I’m trying to make. General Relativity is the engine that makes the universe run, not just at a physicals level… but at all levels. All matter is held together by the illusionary components of space and time. Every particle is linked with every other particle. In a sense everything is still the singularity, it is just that the singularity has created apparent distinctions within itself. This can be further demonstrated through quantum entanglement (not going into it).

    Synthesis: The first section of this article promotes an apparent paradox when it comes to Objective reality. The second section of this article is a scientific phenomenon which is dependent on Objective reality. So the real question is… what gives? The answer becomes apparent when one understands reality at the quantum level. And I’m not getting into quantum mechanics here, other than a bit of Schrodinger’s cat and eigenstates. In 1935 Schrodinger came up with a thought experiment that was one of the foundations of quantum thought. Schrodinger asked, if a cat was sealed in a box with a flask of poison connected to a device which detects radioactive decay. If the counter detects radioactive decay, the flask will be shattered killing the cat. The odds of the counter detecting the radioactive decay are about 50%. From outside the box, the observer interprets that the cat is either dead or alive, therefore the cat from the observer viewpoint is in a super position in which the observer has not yet collapsed the wave function. This idea, this concept spun off the many world’s theory. From this point of the supposed cat’s death, the universe branches off into different universes.

    The problem with this theory is general relativity. If everything in the universe is defined by its interconnectivity, then isn’t the quantum state already predisposed? The problem with this is the assumption that there would be obvious differences in macroscopic states due to the subtle changing of quantum states, this is to say, instead of having direct divergence of universes due to macroscopic states, that the divergence is due to the more microscopic world of quantum states. This as a result would create a ridiculously large amount of parallel universes, many of which the cat would live… many of which the cat would die. The framework of general relativity is held together by observer coherency, meaning the observer is constantly flipping back and forth between different parallel universes in order to maintain an observer consistency in order to prevent disruptions. When the observer flips they are literally a different version of the selves that they left behind and the entire universes history has been slightly altered around the different quantum state. Conscious discrepancies between different universe switching causes the matrix(lol) to glitch creating moments of déjà vu.


    The self, a rubix cube of infinity: If you are a big fan of psychological theories (like most of the people on this site are), you’d know that most of them divide the self into at least 2 subsections defined as conscious and unconscious. The conscious self being the active aware identity, and the unconscious being the hidden/tucked away ocean of the self in which the conscious self sits on top of. There are a ton of theories on how these are layered, particularly Freud’s which I quite like. The problem with many of these theories is the scope of the self.

    I preface this by asking, if a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it fall… did it really fall?

    General Relativity makes this question seem nonsensical. The idea of general relativity is that everything is interrelated, everything is linked in space-time. So at least on some level the individual is aware of the tree falling, the tree falling impacts the things around it, those things impact the things around them….. And eventually the energy waves will impact the person (there are no perfect vacuums). Of course I think there is more direct impact, the self is inherently aware of future events, as time is an illusionary component.

    So what exactly does this mean? Well to sum it up, our perceptive reality, is a component of our unconscious mind. The consciousness basically swims in the unconscious ocean that is spatial reality. Components of my unconscious reality make up someone else’s conscious reality. The self is basically composed of all other people and all other things within the universe a varying degrees of subconscious interaction (one is more consciously aware of their own family than they are some random people in some third world country). Not only this, but the self is also composed of all other universes. As a matter of fact, awareness of simultaneous parallel universes allow for us to intuitively predict events based on our analysis of probabilities. The self is basically infinity layered based on conscious awareness of different aspects of it.
    In closing, I hope this doesn’t sound too much like gibberish. I'll probably make adjustments to this.
    Model X Will Save Us!

    *randomwarelinkremoved

    jessica129:scrotums r hot

    :" hitting cap makes me envision cervix smashing"

  2. #2
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    6,625
    Mentioned
    159 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think it is not possible for general relativity to be the "engine of universe" at all levels, in fact far from it. We already know it breaks down at microscopic scales, nor does it take quantum effects into account. Many theorists are trying to reconcile the two theories by redefining what space and time are. Loop quantum gravity uses a discrete model of space as a kind of graph. But personally I find the approach of Julian Barbour to be the deepest: he started with Mach's principle which essentially says that time and space should be derived based on observable, spatial relations. He's been very successful with this project; I think he has re-derived GR or something similar using his framework. It also implies that there truly are distinguished "moments" unlike in GR, called "constant mean curvature" foliations. This is different from 4D spacetime where every "space-like" foliation can represent a moment.

    You are also right that the singularity does not make sense, it's just not mathematically sound. We reconstruct the past based on the present; the singularity is just a representation of our ignorance like the quantum state is.

  3. #3
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    SEER ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,897
    Mentioned
    733 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    "Something" is rippling through the ether today.

    "...we see the sun and the stars proof that light must travel through something that is not air and yet something that fills all space. This all-pervading something was called the "ether." Electrical energy, like light, travels through the ether in waves..."

    "This ether, of which we will all soon, talk glibly, is a restless, rippling, invisible ocean In which stars, planets, human beings, mountains and household furniture are immersed...."

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  4. #4
    The Troll Slayer Hitta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    In your mom's uterus
    Posts
    4,009
    Mentioned
    153 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    I think it is not possible for general relativity to be the "engine of universe" at all levels, in fact far from it. W
    Yes, that is kind of the point of what I wrote. At the macro level things exist via easily correlated relativistic properties. At the quantum level, something a bit more complicated happens,though I do not think that the relativistic properties change per se... it only seems to be violated from our point of view, it is more like the particles are relativistic to all of the parallel universes simultaneously.
    Model X Will Save Us!

    *randomwarelinkremoved

    jessica129:scrotums r hot

    :" hitting cap makes me envision cervix smashing"

  5. #5
    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    5,935
    Mentioned
    122 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)

    Default

    God doesn't exist. Your theory falls apart.

  6. #6
    The Troll Slayer Hitta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    In your mom's uterus
    Posts
    4,009
    Mentioned
    153 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Capitalist Pig View Post
    God doesn't exist. Your theory falls apart.
    It really is like you exist to be annoying.
    Model X Will Save Us!

    *randomwarelinkremoved

    jessica129:scrotums r hot

    :" hitting cap makes me envision cervix smashing"

  7. #7
    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Canada
    TIM
    9w8
    Posts
    3,288
    Mentioned
    124 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The big cock slap ......doesn't sound so bad.
    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

  8. #8
    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Canada
    TIM
    9w8
    Posts
    3,288
    Mentioned
    124 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Shrodinger's cat and the multiverse....

    If a tree falls in the woods sort of thing. The universe carries on wether or not its being witnessed doing so. The cat lived, the cat died, whatever happened was going to happen. It is only man at this stage in development that is left playing catch-up.

    Will we ever know, know, like all the way through, know?

    Probably not. We are organic after all and therefore bound to the singularity we developed inside.

    Maybe it is our consciousness, the aware-state, the state we we know we are alive, that is another, albiet unique and sacred, form of a hologram our emerging brains developed in order not to feel so freightened and alone in a harsh universe full of poisonous gamma radiation and hurtling objects having mass and velocity and organic carbon machines with teeth and fur and gnashing, drooling, jarring mouths bent on consuming our flesh. Maybe our brains, squishy, course, fatty material, is no more capable of quantifying the mystery that was the moment after the big bang then it is separating itself from the concept of a chair. The are both nearly impossible for the masses. Baring some massive stroke, our world is defined according to the current paradigms and unless you want to be some maverick on the hill top pondering places you can never go.....

    Trust it. We are as bound as Hawking to that cruel little wheel chair and there is nothing we can do about it. It's a miracle enough that abiotic cogs turned biotic and through simple rules multiplied into something a million fold more complex.

    So let's work within this reality-spatial universe because the others you can only visit and how do you know you are not deluding yourself?

    Unless it can be tested theoretical physics remains mount Olympus and the gaggle of God's who control the forces and the fates and imbued with everything human as to be created in their own image. Meaning its all "man-centric". Unless we can stop being human we can only see with human eyes. We remember and we predict. That's about as good as our human brain can get. How can we know for sure a multiverse is not some form of complicated and complex remembering and predicting?

    I don't know. I have reached the limits of what I have currently understood about it all.
    Last edited by wacey; 05-23-2016 at 02:27 PM.
    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

  9. #9
    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Canada
    TIM
    9w8
    Posts
    3,288
    Mentioned
    124 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Like I have told you before, I really would like to go to that place though. I really would.
    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •