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Thread: Ask an SLE woman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I dated an SLE for a short term. I can say the following differences The spontaneity was not adequate for my psyche. I really like the "let's plan it" approach to going somewhere and even plan where we will have dinner and make things predictable. SLE took me with their senses "there's this restaurant at the beach overlooking the surf with big window. We can eat there" It was an overload of sensations. Even when we got back to his place he wanted to play the guitar as we took in the sunset. I just wanted to lay on the couch and relax. So there was no clear cut "relax time" as there is with my dual, which I love so much. I appreciated SLE's connection to his family and the history he shared with me. He was very proud of his heritage and of the crafts that were passed down to him. It made things very rich for Fi types who value family and friendship. I didn't have enough emotional output for him. After a while I just wanted to escape and be at home. I didn't want to go out any more. I didn't want to do things. He was very kind. He made me tea but in all he did there was that element of heightened sensation and will where I wanted to be at home, watch a few shows and listen to someone talk about their work and what had transpired. He talked about his work as he was working. I'm trying to think of specific things. Also SLE are protective, they will reach out to me and ask me what's going on and in what ways can they be of help. I find my duals are there for me but let me do what I want in a "I guided you, you decide."

    I'm just not emotionally varied and I can be quite willful. I'm not changeable, I'm steady and predictable and always very consistent. My duals always get a report of where I am so that they can track my activity. From when I leave for work and i get there I'm texting "I'm at work babe" to going to lunch "I'm going to lunch" when I get home safely "I'm at home." I don't know why and I can't explain to you what it is that I find so even and comforting in this.

    Maybe being Ep and having an Ip dual who can do things spontaneously makes them interact on a day to day basis without tracking on each other's actions so much. IDK

    I also find it sad when SLE cry ( a few females have) and I don't have enough Fe to say "Aww, I'm sorry. I hope you feel better' with that loud and expressive sympathetic tone. All I do is reach in for a hug and say "I'm here for you if you want to start pouring out your troubles. I'll listen"

    SLE define the things that are "real power" "real man" etc. It's the difference between being a commander and a working bee. I'll take my duals
    Respect your efforts, respect yourself. Self-respect leads to self-discipline. When you have both firmly under your belt, that's real power.

    With LSE it's what they enjoy doing and what they do that is the center of most conversations
    What the right ways of doing things are, identifying how others do it the way they do and then saying "I like the way he thinks"
    I enjoy going on motorcycle trips and stopping in small towns and enjoying drinks with the locals. Doing Te and enjoying Si
    I know this is an old post but:
    I am an INFp, but I can be quite unspontaneous too though. My other INFp friend and me like to play safe many times (like we love staying at home and are kinda scared of new experiences etc.) and I remember meeting an SLE guy at a party and I couldn't open up at all at least that fast within a few hours time (too much pressure for an introvert), and even though I am very humourous with my friends and people I trust.. it takes me time to show Fe towards someone that intensely, especially if I am attracted to them and do not want to come across as weird.
    Even other INFps I met are not Fe in your face, I guess it takes a while for introverts to show their Fe at all.. it's often used very subtly. And even though I can be soft and flexible with people I do not wanna piss off or whom I really respect, I am not that diplomatic at all, actually Si and Ne users are much better at being diplomatic and not insisting on things, I as an Ni/Se user am very stubborn and want to reach my goals no matter what, sometimes just waltzing over other people's feelings (I am not Fe dominant afterall but a dominant Ni user). I sometimes do not understand the stereotypes about INFps.. yes, we are soft and stuff.. at the same time we are not as good natured as the internet portrays us and I learned a lot of the social rules from other people as I often just disregarded them to get what I want.. especially as a kid.

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    what make you think you are SLE over LSE?
    if you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaviTilki View Post
    I know this is an old post but:
    I am an INFp, but I can be quite unspontaneous too though. My other INFp friend and me like to play safe many times (like we love staying at home and are kinda scared of new experiences etc.) and I remember meeting an SLE guy at a party and I couldn't open up at all at least that fast within a few hours time (too much pressure for an introvert), and even though I am very humourous with my friends and people I trust.. it takes me time to show Fe towards someone that intensely, especially if I am attracted to them and do not want to come across as weird.
    Even other INFps I met are not Fe in your face, I guess it takes a while for introverts to show their Fe at all.. it's often used very subtly. And even though I can be soft and flexible with people I do not wanna piss off or whom I really respect, I am not that diplomatic at all, actually Si and Ne users are much better at being diplomatic and not insisting on things, I as an Ni/Se user am very stubborn and want to reach my goals no matter what, sometimes just waltzing over other people's feelings (I am not Fe dominant afterall but a dominant Ni user). I sometimes do not understand the stereotypes about INFps.. yes, we are soft and stuff.. at the same time we are not as good natured as the internet portrays us and I learned a lot of the social rules from other people as I often just disregarded them to get what I want.. especially as a kid.
    Precisely why I hate the eternal circle about Duals being "meant to be" going on in this forum. I love IEIs as friends but I know by personal experience, having observed the bolded as true, that they are unsuited to me as romantic partners.

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    @LuckyOne Could you give some specifics about what of the bolded would bother you? What kind of behaviour in a partner would you prefer instead?

    Also, have you ever been in a relationship?

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    @LuckyOne Could you give some specifics about what of the bolded would bother you? What kind of behaviour in a partner would you prefer instead?

    Also, have you ever been in a relationship?
    I have spoken about what kind of romantic partners I like in threads per taking the subject. In the Socionic I'm partial to SEIs.

    And would you even think of asking this? I wouldn't speak of a subject I don't have personal experience with.

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    What I think about duality in this context is that them compulsively fitting like puzzle pieces romantically is not realistic; @Cassandra has written about the many obstacles and "misdirected" (not necessarily "wrong") attractions that prevent this compatibility in the first place.
    "The ENFp outlaw lives in the world of "chaos" meaning that he doesn't get surprised by the mayhem he causes or has to deal with in order to accomplish the goal of staying alive. Unlike the strong Si types who notice every tiny detail of pre-conceived madness, he will quite happily do whatever his experimental intuition dictates to survive even if he has to use himself as a "guinea pig" in the process. [...] Strong Ne types like the ENFp outlaw tend to make serendipitous discoveries like finding a creative way of defying death where others would have died if they stuck to "the rules". The long range vision of Ne with a drug-induced short-range Si tactical foreplay reveals the true nature of one's methodical madness i.e. using chaos to stabilize the chaos." x



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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    What I think about duality in this context is that them compulsively fitting like puzzle pieces romantically is not realistic; @Cassandra has written about the many obstacles and "misdirected" (not necessarily "wrong") attractions that prevent this compatibility in the first place.
    That's the rational way of looking at it, but if there's one thing people will very seldom admit is being irrational about things that matter to them. Specially beliefs that align with their desires. Wish fulfillment is one of the big factors in people getting personality theory wrong, not only in Socionics. A lot of people are looking for confirmation that they are who/how they believe/want themselves to be, not discovering more about themselves, because that can break the illusion.

    Socionics/MBTI also poses as a guide to life for them, a way to navigate a world that scares/eludes them, so it comforts them to believe that they can easily spot people to match them in every area of life, hence so many threads about people of a certain type not behaving like they "should" in relation to the OPs. Not every lid will fit every pot even if they are from the same brand

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    I have spoken about what kind of romantic partners I like in threads per taking the subject. In the Socionic I'm partial to SEIs.
    Would you kindly link me or direct me, here or elsewhere?

    And would you even think of asking this? I wouldn't speak of a subject I don't have personal experience with.
    Hey it happens lol.

    Interesting you mention SEIs. I was in a relationship with an SEI for two years. We discussed marriage. Actually, he was from South Korea. : ) I visited your country twice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    That's the rational way of looking at it, but if there's one thing people will very seldom admit is being irrational about things that matter to them. Specially beliefs that align with their desires. Wish fulfillment is one of the big factors in people getting personality theory wrong, not only in Socionics. A lot of people are looking for confirmation that they are who/how they believe/want themselves to be, not discovering more about themselves, because that can break the illusion.

    Socionics/MBTI also poses as a guide to life for them, a way to navigate a world that scares/eludes them, so it comforts them to believe that they can easily spot people to match them in every area of life, hence so many threads about people of a certain type not behaving like they "should" in relation to the OPs. Not every lid will fit every pot even if they are from the same brand
    Very true, no need to add something. Except maybe referencing @Wyrd's devil's dictionary of socionics, this is gold and even expands on this notion.
    "The ENFp outlaw lives in the world of "chaos" meaning that he doesn't get surprised by the mayhem he causes or has to deal with in order to accomplish the goal of staying alive. Unlike the strong Si types who notice every tiny detail of pre-conceived madness, he will quite happily do whatever his experimental intuition dictates to survive even if he has to use himself as a "guinea pig" in the process. [...] Strong Ne types like the ENFp outlaw tend to make serendipitous discoveries like finding a creative way of defying death where others would have died if they stuck to "the rules". The long range vision of Ne with a drug-induced short-range Si tactical foreplay reveals the true nature of one's methodical madness i.e. using chaos to stabilize the chaos." x



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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    Would you kindly link me or direct me, here or elsewhere?


    Hey it happens lol.

    Interesting you mention SEIs. I was in a relationship with an SEI for two years. We discussed marriage. Actually, he was from South Korea. : ) I visited your country twice.
    From the top of my head:


    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...y-Seeking-Type

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1172574

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-Andy-Biersack

    SEIs are perfect to me, contrary to what Socionics say, it's like they were made just so I could have them lol. We do have a large population of Sensors indeed, the disparity is quite big.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Very true, no need to add something. Except maybe referencing @Wyrd's devil's dictionary of socionics, this is gold and even expands on this notion.
    I can always count on you giving me the good shit that makes me not quit

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    We do have a large population of Sensors indeed, the disparity is quite big.
    From what I saw there, it seems like the country overall has Alpha values? Except the Ne-Si reminded me of Delta Ne-Si more than Alpha. Possibly shifting to more Se valuing recently (beyond just the fetish in entertainment) but not there yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    From what I saw there, it seems like the country overall has Alpha values? Except the Ne-Si reminded me of Delta Ne-Si more than Alpha. Possibly shifting to more Se valuing recently (beyond just the fetish in entertainment) but not there yet.
    No, that'd be Japan the country with which Korea has a serious case of hate/envy. It's definitely a Delta society as of today, the problem is that it mainly exemplifies the worst traits or "dark side" of it to us natives, while foreigners get the nice parts. They wish they were Gamma, though i.e. the projection and idealization of it in its pop culture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    No, that'd be Japan the country with which Korea has a serious case of hate/envy. It's definitely a Delta society as of today, the problem is that it mainly exemplifies the worst traits or "dark side" of it to us natives, while foreigners get the nice parts. They wish they were Gamma, though i.e. the projection and idealization of it in its pop culture.
    Out of curiosity why would you pin Korea as an Fi valuing country over Fe? Generally speaking, most East Asian countries are more collectivist and that seems to be more of a characteristic of Fe valuing on a superficial level anyway.

    I actually think that Japan is Beta at its core / historically. The contemporary media and new tech and anime all has an Alpha vibe, but the weirdness level (tentacle stuff etc.) plus the war-like history (samurai, etc.) in spite of it being a small nation is a lot more Se-Ni than something peaceful and judicious. And plus, with you pinning Korea as Delta, it would make sense to have Japan as Beta to fit the "rivals" concept.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    Out of curiosity why would you pin Korea as an Fi valuing country over Fe? Generally speaking, most East Asian countries are more collectivist and that seems to be more of a characteristic of Fe valuing on a superficial level anyway.

    I actually think that Japan is Beta at its core / historically. The contemporary media and new tech and anime all has an Alpha vibe, but the weirdness level (tentacle stuff etc.) plus the war-like history (samurai, etc.) in spite of it being a small nation is a lot more Se-Ni than something peaceful and judicious. And plus, with you pinning Korea as Delta, it would make sense to have Japan as Beta to fit the "rivals" concept.
    Because that collectivism is completely false. Koreans are many times absurdly selfish and self serving, but society (which was built here by outsiders) oppresses their true natures and forces them into a community type of thinking that only brings bitterness. The large majority of Koreans are deeply unhappy, we are close to the top in suicide rates for a reason, because no one is allowed to actually engage in things they desire or express anything "out of the norm". What people identify as natural (specially in the media) is very forced and hollow, which is why it rubs many the wrong way, there's a histerical element to it, it's creepy.

    Korean/Japan rivality is not caused by different ways of thinking, it's all based in one thing from both sidesride. It's all about the past, not the present.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    Because that collectivism is completely false. Koreans are many times absurdly selfish and self serving, but society (which was built here by outsiders) oppresses their true natures and forces them into a community type of thinking that only brings bitterness. The large majority of Koreans are deeply unhappy, we are close to the top in suicide rates for a reason, because no one is allowed to actually engage in things they desire or express anything "out of the norm". What people identify as natural (specially in the media) is very forced and hollow, which is why it rubs many the wrong way, there's a histerical element to it, it's creepy.

    Korean/Japan rivality is not caused by different ways of thinking, it's all based in one thing from both sidesride. It's all about the past, not the present.
    That's interesting that you've experienced the ethics there as different from an insider point of view. Also explains why I got the unexpected Delta vibes while there.

    Actually interestingly when I was working in Japan for a while, my hiring manager there was a South Korean LIE who married a Japanese man and was working for his family's Japanese company as their vice president. She expressed her interpretation of Japanese culture as being very "fake" and doubting that people really knew "how to treat each other", and she seemed mildly depressed, as if she found it difficult to integrate into the social side of the culture.

    I myself am part Asian (Hong Kong Chinese) and grew up in an area with an enormous Asian population, and I've noticed that in comparing different Asian cultures, Koreans that I talked to seemed to be very "serious" compared to the other Asians and strongly emotional in a way that was unexpectedly different from the cutesy Fe image from Korean media.

    I still maintain that Japan's culture is Beta at its core, based on the things I've said and my experiences there. Collectivism and Fe seems to be much more embraced in the population's psyche and overall culture there, while there is certainly still the element you described of it being somewhat "forced" a lot of the time, where people can't express their true selves, and causing a lot of suicides. Japan is even more reserved in a way than Korea so they force themselves to "hold it in" more, I think... it's kind of seen as a traditional virtue that's still really socially reinforced. I can't see this as being Alpha, which would be more like "do what's comfortable". It's very hierarchical, obviously aristocratic > democratic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    Precisely why I hate the eternal circle about Duals being "meant to be" going on in this forum. I love IEIs as friends but I know by personal experience, having observed the bolded as true, that they are unsuited to me as romantic partners.
    I do not agree actually. The thing is.. that SLEs do have a similar extreme and enduring nature about them, which makes them perfect for IEIs. The thing is that Ni/Se users often run over Si/Ne users by their pressuring or rather extreme nature, which in my experience makes them incompatible for close relationships. For me it takes my equal (someone with force) to "tame" me and to put me in my place. Something an Si/Ne user often does not want to do, they want 'lax' restrictions. Like for example I had some Delta NFs who were interested in me.. but I knew I had to really control myself with them in a close relationship (which is not very comfortable), like I really feel too 'mean' for such nice and easy going people. An EIE friend said something similar.. she gets really mean when people are too submissive (which sounds very 'cruel' I know and she always feels sorry afterwards like I do).
    My SLE best friend told me and I told her that only the two of us can actually convince the other person to do something or make the other person want to do something. SLEs often get bored of consistency, which is very much provided by Si users and which Ne users seek.
    Btw you also bolded the subtle "Fe" part, but SEIs use Fe just as subtly as IEIs, they are Fe creatives as well. Many of them are actually shier than me.. which might be because of my so/sx nature. The thing is even though I am a dreamy and sometimes shy person (depending on the situation and people), I do have a completely different extreme, hard headed and enduring side about me, which is also needed, because we do not break as easily from an SLE's pressure, especially males can be 'divas' in a way, they are betas after all.. and they attract a lot of drama like all of us lol.
    The thing about the not opening up to that SLE guy for example is that being put in an environment with complete strangers puts me under pressure to act and behave 'normal' or very cautious at first, especially with a potential romantic match.. like I really want to observe people at first to get an impression of who they are or might be. In a more relaxed environment with friends and some new people the game usually changes and I actually am pretty capeable of controlling the mood of a whole group as soon as the dynamics are made clear.
    Also I feel that the often sexual nature of ESTps is only matched by another Beta, if not an IEI (who are just as sexual beings as ESTps).
    Also duality only hits after spending quite a long time together, I never had an as intense bond with another ESTp (even though I do find them extremely attractive), because there was no close interaction. Even after talking to some of them it is not enough. You really gotta work together or spend a few hours with them alone. But these were just my two cents.
    Last edited by MaviTilki; 03-17-2017 at 08:12 AM.

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    actually the more thought put into it the culture of a country (!!!!) can not be said to belong to one quadra more than subjective stereotypes. One can say that Sweden have the stereotype of IKEA (SLI) but than say it is ABBA or Carola (SEE), or maybe this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3avE4Zsp14g) SEI. A healthy country is always dynamic. And if there are a lot of delta in a country of beta, are they suppressed?
    if you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against

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    @Tigerfadder How old are you?
    Can you stop spamming?
    I can't believe you would dare to try talking to me in this thread again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    @Tigerfadder How old are you?
    Can you stop spamming?
    I can't believe you would dare to try talking to me in this thread again.
    What?
    if you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaviTilki View Post
    I do not agree actually. The thing is.. that SLEs do have a similar extreme and enduring nature about them, which makes them perfect for IEIs. The thing is that Ni/Se users often run over Si/Ne users by their pressuring or rather extreme nature, which in my experience makes them incompatible for close relationships. For me it takes my equal (someone with force) to "tame" me and to put me in my place. Something an Si/Ne user often does not want to do, they want 'lax' restrictions. Like for example I had some Delta NFs who were interested in me.. but I knew I had to really control myself with them in a close relationship (which is not very comfortable), like I really feel too 'mean' for such nice and easy going people. An EIE friend said somethign similar.. she gets really mean when people are too submissive (and she always feels sorry afterwards like me).
    My SLE best friend told me and I told her that only the two of us can actually convince the other person to do something or make the other person want to do something. SLEs often get bored of consistency, which is very mich provided by Si users and which Ne users seek.
    Btw you also bolded the subtle "Fe" part, but SEIs use Fe just as subtly as IEIs, they are Fe creatives as well. Many of them are actually shier than me.. which might be because of my so/sx nature. The thing is even though I am a dreamy and sometimes shy person (depending on the situation and people), I do have a completely different extreme, hard headed and enduring side about me, which is also needed, because we do not break as easily from an SLE pressure, especially males can be 'divas' in a way, the are betas after all.. and they attract a lot of drama like all of us lol.
    The thing about the not opening up to that SLE guy for example is that being put in an environment with complete strangers puts me under pressure to act and behave 'normal' or very cautious at first, especially with a potential romantic match.. like I really want to observe people and who the are at first to get an impression of who they are or might be. In a more relaxed environment with friends and soem new people the game usually changes and I actually am pretty capeable of controlling he mood of a whole group as soon as the dynamics are made clear.
    Also I feel that the often sexual nature of ESTps is only matched by another Beta, if not an IEI (who are just as sexual beings as ESTps).
    Also duality only hits after spending quite a long time together, I never had an as intense bond with another ESTp (even though I do find them extremely attractive), because there was not close interaction. Even after talking to soem it is not enough. You really gotta work together or spend a few hours with them alone. But these were just my two cents.
    I have no interest in taming anyone, so thanks but no thanks.

    And please refrain from speaking about a sexuality that is not your own. Also, I've know my IEIs for at least three years each, so time's not the issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    I have no interest in taming anyone, so thanks but no thanks.

    And please refrain from speaking about a sexuality that is not your own. Also, I've know my IEIs for at least three years each, so time's not the issue.
    It comes down to individual preferences after all, but with 'sexual' I do not mean only sexuality but also the whole vibe of a person.. like Betas have very sexual natures. They are very intense and it's like a constant struggle or storm. That's what I mean. Deltas for example (our opposite quadra) do not exhibit the same 'external' passion or aggression as Betas. The other two quadras also not as strongly.. at least outwardly. And I do talk about sexuality and stuff, because I know enough people of my kind to see that we are indeed very sexual beings, like I haven't met another IEI (and I met quite a few) who was not secretly as intense or sexual in their way of being as SLEs (at least most SLEs I knew or met.. in an Asian country I can imagine it's different because of the values).
    Last edited by MaviTilki; 03-16-2017 at 09:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    And please refrain from speaking about a sexuality that is not your own.
    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    You clearly don't understand what being a triple assertive or a Ego is like, since the first thing you did was tell me what to do.
    :x

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    :x
    Did your eyes skip the word "please"? That's not an order, it's a request.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaviTilki View Post
    It comes down to individual preferences after all, but with 'sexual' I do not mean only sexuality but also the whole vibe of a person.. like Betas have very sexual natures. They are very intense and it's like a constant struggle or storm. That's what I mean. Deltas for example (our opposite quadra) do not exhibit the same 'external' passion or aggression as Betas. The other two quadras also not as strongly.. at least outwardly. And I do talk about sexuality and stuff, because I know enough people of my kind to see that we are indeed very sexual beings, like I haven't met another IEI (and I met quite a few) who was not secretly as intense or sexual in their way of being as SLEs (at leats most SLEs I knew or met.. in an Asian country I can imagine it's different because of values).
    It's not about being very sexual or not, and ethnicity has nothing to do with it either. It's about saying only an IEI would match us in this area. Which is presumptuous. Sex has got nothing to do IM, if anything is a more instinctual variant thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    Did your eyes skip the word "please"? That's not an order, it's a request.
    Wow, never thought I'd meet someone more literal than I am lol.

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    @LuckyOne huh.. I thought you were talking to me abou the sexual thing.. or were you talking to @niffer ? o.O I do not want to fight though, I just wanted to state what I could see from how things usually played out in my environment in real life and how I saw it play out with other people's experiences stated on different forums.
    I am just trying to be as honest as possible with the descriptions about myself for example, because I feel that this is necessary to get a good overview of the INFp personality. We are often portrayed in such incomplete ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    It's not about being very sexual or not, and ethnicity has nothing to do with it either. It's about saying only an IEI would match us in this area. Which is presumptuous. Sex has got nothing to do IM, if anything is a more instinctual variant thing.
    I never even said that xD like I said it might be more of different values within a different culture in this case an Asian one (I mean people there are more into harmony most of the time, which I could see when I visited Japan for example). Which often does play a very important role for people when they are looking for certain qualities within other people. And as I also already said.. 'sexual' does not mean sexuality. It's the intensity of personalities that I mean. And Betas are veeery intense and dramatic, even INFps. But enough said, I gave my two cents on this thread and I do not want to discuss these things because that's not what I said. I think it's pretty obvious what I mean, so I won't argue about this. The theory doesn't have to work for everyone, I know enough people who have a happy and succesful life and partnership without it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    Sex has got nothing to do IM,
    Actually I disagree with this. I've had enough experience to attest to the idea of the different romance styles holding true.

    I don't think that people are meant to marry every dual they meet, as I've mentioned before on this forum. Far from it. I maintain that people will probably only meet a small handful of duals in their lifetime that they will truly get along with and build relationships with due to NTR factors, and far fewer of those that they meet will be suitable for long term romantic potential. With my experiences, it's seemed like duality has offered the best experiences by far on both the romantic and sexual realms. I also am not someone who would be willing to comment on something I haven't experienced after collecting sufficient evidence firsthand.

    I ask that you guys please refrain from derailing the thread too much by going off topic into the nature of duality itself. It's an ask thread. You're certainly welcome to contribute though @LuckyOne (you too @Herzy ).

    @MaviTilki @Chae
    Last edited by niffer; 03-16-2017 at 09:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    Wow, never thought I'd meet someone more literal than I am lol.
    I've always been apparently, but I've never noticed it until it was pointed ou to me recently.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaviTilki View Post
    @LuckyOne huh.. I thought you were talking to me abou the sexual thing.. or were you talking to @niffer ? o.O I do not want to fight though, I just wanted to state what I could see from how things usually played out in my environment in real life and how I saw it play out with other people's experiences stated on different forums.
    I am just trying to be as honest as possible with the descriptions about myself for example, because I feel that this is necessary to get a good overview of the INFp personality. We are often portrayed in such incomplete ways.
    I'm absolutely not fighting with you or anyone, really.

    What I react badly to was a generalization of something not only intimate, but also that I can't agree with due to personal experience and don't even think is linked to Socionics in the first place.

    I' glad you're offering your IEI input because as you've said, there are a lot of misconceptions about the type (and all others) out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaviTilki View Post
    I never even said that xD like I said it might be more of different values within a different culture in this case an Asian one (I mean people there are more into harmony most of the time, which I could see when I visited Japan for example). Which often does play a very important role for people when they are looking for certain qualities within other people. And as I also already said.. 'sexual' does not mean sexuality. It's the intensity of personalities that I mean. And Betas are veeery intense and dramatic, even INFps. But enough said, I gave my two cents on this thread and I do not want to discuss these things because that's not what I said. I think it's pretty obvious what I mean, so I won't argue about this. The theory doesn't have to work for everyone, I know enough people who have a happy and succesful life and partnership without it.
    That's actually what I alway say about SX first in the Enneagram but no one will listen.

    I don't see how you could have missed Japan being sex obsessed since it's quite blatant, but ok, that helps them attract tourists which is what they want anyway

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    there's definitely something about beta that oozes sexuality. in the men its comes off as homosexuality but its actually beta omnisexuality. its gross and extreme from my perspective, but I can see how from a beta perspective, since its the norm, they don't think of it as such

    also I feel like unless you have a society completely politically dominated by a quadra (i.e. soviet russia), nations are better understood in terms of their prevailing cultural drives which can be best expressed in enneagram types
    Last edited by Bertrand; 03-16-2017 at 09:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    in the men its comes off as homosexuality but its actually beta omnisexuality.
    i loled irl

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    ...

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    @niffer , are you still answering questions here?

    1.How did you arrive at the conclusion that you are SLE? Why the Ti subtype?

    2. How long does it take you to type someone IRL? What process do you follow?

    3. Why do you seem to admire qualities of the EII type (Ashitaka)?

    4. Someone very close to you suddenly breaks off contact with you. How do you deal with this situation?

    5. What's better; to be liked, or loved?

    6. What's worse, to be evil, or to be mean?

    7. Do you have well developed imagination?

    8. Are you fit naturally?

    Thanks in advance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    there's definitely something about beta that oozes sexuality. in the men its comes off as homosexuality but its actually beta omnisexuality. its gross and extreme from my perspective, but I can see how from a beta perspective, since its the norm, they don't think of it as such

    also I feel like unless you have a society completely politically dominated by a quadra (i.e. soviet russia), nations are better understood in terms of their prevailing cultural drives which can be best expressed in enneagram types
    It's interesting you feel that way about Betas, because to me certain types like IEI, ILI and ILEs come across as assexual. Like, zero sexual energy coming from them, and I'm not talking about attraction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Nah, this is exactly why Japan is ISTp... it's the Fe-PoLR. Delta can also be collectivist, in fact I think collectivism is more Aristocratic, socionically. You could say that the cultures of Ancient Japan like samurais etc are Beta ST, but you can say the same for pretty much any militant ancient cultures.

    But anyway, a lot of the problems in Japan and East Asia have more to do with their histories, philosophies, politics, etc. than really anything else.
    YES

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    I've moved @Bertrand's type posts to his intro post. If anyone wants to continue discussing his type, proceed there, unless he wants to start a new typing thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mclane View Post
    @niffer , are you still answering questions here?
    Sure, mclane. Thanks for asking some things that are relevant so respectfully.

    1.How did you arrive at the conclusion that you are SLE? Why the Ti subtype?
    I'd been reading about Jung and MBTI for several years and knew that I was Fe and Ni valuing. I thought that I was EIE for a few years because I tried to just transfer directly over from MBTI ENFJ, but after going through experiences where I got to know myself more (I was 20 at this time) and reading through all the different socionics types, I came across Beskova's Female ESTp description and my mind was blown at how much it fit me, and everything came together after that. I've had some doubts over these past couple years about my typing, but I've concluded that I only fit the SLE TIM.

    I don't subscribe to the idea of subtypes, yet. There's obviously a lot of variation within the types, and some people will easily fit one subtype description more than they do the other one. But from what I've personally observed and experienced, it's ambiguous enough that I can't say there's some kind of cognitive pattern that shuttles peoples traits cleanly into the behaviours of one subtype or the other, nor is there a structural explanation that makes sense to me that I've gathered enough evidence for. Also, subtypes aren't a part of classical socionics.

    Most people want to shuttle me into the Ti sub because I'm obviously more contemplative and introverted-seeming sometimes than a lot of SLE descriptions and stereotypes would suggest, but most people also admit that I have qualities that fit Se sub too.

    2. How long does it take you to type someone IRL? What process do you follow?
    If we're just talking about typing IRL, I would use a very "sensoric" approach. I would take in their appearance, how they move and talk, and their mannerisms. I compare it to the archetypes I sort of have in my head already as a result of compounded knowledge of all the other people I know who I've typed which I constantly update, so over time this gets faster and more accurate. I can type people within seconds this way, but of course it's better if I have more time to observe them and get to know them.

    3. Why do you seem to admire qualities of the EII type (Ashitaka)?
    I'm not going to battletype Ashitaka with you, but I guess by this we can look at traits of being gentle, kind, compassionate, and kind of stoic, which can apply to any introverted type really, but mostly INFx and I would say Ip > Ij. I don't really see EIIs as being pliant and gentle and receptive in an Ip way like this, more like static and immovable and basically rigid, which I wouldn't say I admire or feel any way about except that it's obviously historically not been compatible with me.

    4. Someone very close to you suddenly breaks off contact with you. How do you deal with this situation?
    Based on those who are close with me in reality, I would assume they're in some kind of acute danger or distress, and I would work with people we know and are close to to figure out what's going on.

    5. What's better; to be liked, or loved?
    To be loved.

    6. What's worse, to be evil, or to be mean?
    To be evil I guess. I'm not really sure what the difference is or what you meant.

    7. Do you have well developed imagination?
    I don't know how to gauge the development of my imagination. I wouldn't consider myself to be unimaginative, but I'm still grounded. I'm not exactly churning out fantasy nonstop, and I don't think I could do that as a career, but I do exercise my imagination sometimes.

    8. Are you fit naturally?
    I naturally build muscle easily and have a solid frame, but if I don't eat healthy and exercise I'll be out of shape lol.

    Thanks in advance.
    Np.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Do you talk about socionics with people you know IRL? What about other intellectual topics?
    People who are closer to me all know I'm into socionics and a bit of what it's about, and sometimes they ask me about it. I've only been around like one other person IRL who is actually into socionics like me too ( @Pink , who got me into it and got me to join the forum), but I'm about to meet another person IRL who's into it. She's on this forum too but she doesn't post a lot ( @Deer Woman ). As for other intellectual topics, sometimes I talk to my friends about 'the meaning of life' or discuss and speculate about different things, usually any current events in world news, technology, or culture. It's pretty typical I guess, I'm not sure if those count as being particularly intellectual. When I meet some "expert" people, I'm usually interested in engaging them in some conversation with whatever they're deeply involved in. My best friends IRL are SEE and LIE btw, so you can probably imagine the kinds of things we like talking about (world domination ... jk lol (maybe after we finish our face masks)).

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    Some of these are a little much for a forum so public, and they're also a little overly open-ended.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullets View Post
    sorry if this is too personal but:

    would you be turned on by fucking an IEI male with a strap on? Or are you more into 'top training' an IEI guy? IEI guys- even if they are masculine and forward, are often bitchy/passive as hell so I was wondering how the sexual stuff works out in non-traditional ways from 'grr I'm the male I fuck, you female you get fucked' which is just natural and how sexuality normally operates within heterosexuals. I guess I am wondering now how Kurt Cobain and Courtney Love seduced each other/had sex lel. She seemed bitter about him in later interviews though and said 'he definitely was not an alpha male' but I still think they were in genuine love for a long time. It's just SLE male and IEI woman is so common and classic compared to SLE woman and IEI man- but I think the latter is more potentially interesting.
    In that world I'm surprisingly heteronormative, just more 'sensoric' and taking an active role than average I guess. The aggressor thing is more of a faint overlay. I'm more stereotypically masculine and aggressive when it comes to romance itself, but even then I keep it within the realms of normalness to not seem like a super weirdo. Tldr "no" to all of this, even though I might talk a lot about it as a joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by noaydi View Post
    Hi
    Ive a question, is there things that can offend you in an IRL conversation ? Stay general if you don't want to expose you too much (or feel free to drop me a mp), the reason I'm asking that is that it seem that Ive a bit offended without the intention to do it an SLE friend (girl), I can see a bit why but I would like to have it clearer in order to avoid other error. (hopefully the relation is still okay)

    (My old pseudo was noid, I'm INFJ)
    This seems like an overly specific situation. PM me about it if you still need to know.

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    Please see this thread for a continuation of the Japan discussion/drama above: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-Japan-(split)

    Do note that this thread is in the Beta Quadra subforum, since it's been determined that Japan's national personality is Beta.
    Last edited by niffer; 03-20-2017 at 10:39 PM.

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    @niffer, If you are married or want to be married some day, how do you see the traditional gender roles playing out in your relationship? Do you want your husband to provide the majority of the income and how hands on do you want to be raising your children? Also what combined income would you be happy with?

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