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Thread: Hidden Agenda as Second Creative Function

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    Default Hidden Agenda as Second Creative Function

    So from what I've come to understand per experience, the hidden agenda almost serves as a second creative function to an individual developing in their psyche. And actually, it's the hidden agenda, rather than the creative, which individuals consciously realize within themselves is an area where they would like to further their abilities. Most people realize that their skills associated with their hidden agenda offer the most obvious route for personal development, and will make some at least semi-serious attempt in their lifetimes to do something to aid in its growth. While the creative function acts with information flowing out creatively, second-nature to an individual, as water in a river... information generated by the hidden agenda also flows out with some degree of creativity, albeit more like a periodically glitchy factory pumping out a product with fixed and limited parameters.

    Any thoughts on this?

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    The hidden agenda becomes available as a creative outlet as the dual-seeking function becomes conscious. This happens naturally over time, as you use your role function. Although simultaneously your creative function becomes less accessible, it gets pushed into the subconscious and starts to manifest automatically. So you basically become more like your dual.
    Last edited by ConcreteButterfly; 05-12-2016 at 10:23 PM.

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    squark's Avatar
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    The following things people have written regarding Ni HA I find to be true and good representations:

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    A typical manifestation of Ni HA is the ISXj who knows they have to do something and they have some time to do it; but they keep thinking about it so they do it immediately. It's the reason for ISXjs being "hard workers" and "responsible" -- that actually they are not comfortable about leaving things for later.

    A way of seeing Ni HA is that their Se keeps pulling their thoughts into reality.

    While a Ni person is comfortable about going, in their minds, wandering off, "yes -- I should do that -- it's a good idea -- maybe if I do this, or that, to improve it -- maybe if I wait for that to happen? Yes -- " the ISXj will go, "yes -- I should do that -- it's a good idea" ---> ok, I'll do it right now!

    Their Se keeps overruling their Ni. It's both a bad and a good thing (as everything in socionics).
    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl80
    ISTJ,ISFJ = To believe

    Skeptical, critical, independent, determined, paranoid, sometimes stubborn… yep, that's me!

    My family has joked that I BELIEVE NOTHING AND NOONE. Although I don't have to see and feel everything to believe it, I do require overwhelming proof and a healthy respect for your intelligence to be persuaded.

    Also If I believe that someone has a malevolent slant to him or her it would take an act of God to ever dissuade me from that opinion about the person forevermore. Of course...that may just be stupidity.

    I pity the men that want to date me! Intimacy is a place of serious insecurity for ISTJ’s. I’m way too tough on guys. But that is only when I perceive them to be highly secretive or just plain sneaky. Very open and forthright people put me generally at ease.
    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    I hesitantly think that Ni Hidden Agenda might involve
    a) trying to find meaning...from life, experiences, ideas, personal relationships, etc.
    and/or b) trying to find how things, people, ideas, or events interrelate with each other. Like wanting to find the patterns and cycles that occur in interactions.
    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    DS vs HA

    As a person attempts to obtain a picture of reality and/or connect with their environment, The DS Element compliments the Base Element. Together they compose the center of one's socionics personality. But the DS is limited to personally experiencing patterns and generalizations relevant to it's Element, with difficulty thinking and communicating about it...and when tries to, is sensitive to criticism. So while this info makes up a major influence on the socionics personality, it plays more of a behind the scenes support role to the Base Element.

    The HA Element mobilizes the Creative Element into molding the picture of reality (obtained by the Base & DS). The HA not only utilizes personal experiences and generalizations related to its Element, but the HA also helps in recognizing and applying environmental standard practices of its Element. A person has an easier time thinking and communicating about this Element, and actively seeks this activity out as they try to understand their world around them. It is, however, a Vital Element, not a Mental one. A person may be reliant on reciting in some way what others have said about the related info, particularly if the other person is familiar with dealing with that type of Info.*The focus, however, isn't so much on the HA Element...but in using the HA Element in molding an image of reality.

    Basically, the DS & HA play supporting roles in understanding reality,
    But the HA is not quite as behind-the-scene as the DS Element.
    Quote Originally Posted by lungs
    socionics on my brain too much, but something last night reminded me of this. i was reading reviews of the picture of dorian gray and they were talking about the homosexual undertones in the book. and while i was reading the book i picked up on those undertones and dismissed them as probably just being my own brain creating implications that weren't there, so i was surprised to see that i was actually right to begin with. and there are other times i pick up on implicit currents and run too far with them even though they really ARE just in my head and end up making an ass of myself in a conspiracy theorist way. so there's an under/overconfidence when it comes to picking up on that sort of stuff. related, i think?
    For me, what lungs wrote applies particularly in people-relations, thinking I see things that aren't there, conspiracy type things, like someone is trying to manipulate or undermine me or someone else. Other times I'm blatantly oblivious to things that actually are there. And I think it's this under/over-confidence that creates the kind of suspicion that Pearl80 was talking about in her post. Someone has to be really open for me to trust them, and any kind of holding-back or secretiveness can create doubts and suspicions in my mind. Mostly because I don't trust myself to see things, but also because it's hard for me to know how people feel about me - so there may be some Fi weakness there mixed in for me.

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    @squark

    One of my best friends who is LIE once said something to me which I think might be a meaningful statement to hear from one Se-Ni valuing type to another:

    "Perception is reality."

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    I think the idea makes sense. I have noticed, e.g. several XLEs who have developed enough proficiency w Fe to make up for their weak Fi -- they come across (when they choose to) as charming, polite, down-to-earth, etc...today I talked w an ILE about this, and he laughed about it and acknowledged that he can control how he comes across to impact how people will feel to meet whatever end he has in mind (not in a devious way, though I guess that's always a possibility).

    I don't know whether the HA is like a second creative function, but maybe it's close in people who have put in the effort and had the oplortunity to develop it.
    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

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    Quote Originally Posted by sapphire View Post
    I think the idea makes sense. I have noticed, e.g. several XLEs who have developed enough proficiency w Fe to make up for their weak Fi -- they come across (when they choose to) as charming, polite, down-to-earth, etc...today I talked w an ILE about this, and he laughed about it and acknowledged that he can control how he comes across to impact how people will feel to meet whatever end he has in mind (not in a devious way, though I guess that's always a possibility).

    I don't know whether the HA is like a second creative function, but maybe it's close in people who have put in the effort and had the oplortunity to develop it.
    Yup, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Adding to your example, a lot of XLEs like to make people laugh when they want to, injecting their own Fe into the atmosphere in a sense. And from what I've seen, xEE types enjoy taking on projects of their own sometimes and like to share their knowledge and get stuff done (Te). It won't ever be as strong or as available creatively as the creative function, but from behaviours like all of these things mentioned, it makes the HA function in practice act like a "lower level" or "lower tier" creative function.

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    It's focused on as something to be developed simply because it is valued.

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