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Thread: Is the term "conflict" better suited for extinguishment relations?

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    Default Is the term "conflict" better suited for extinguishment relations?

    It is commonly believed that conflict relations is where most of the fights, heated arguments and headbutting occurs. However, I believe this to be a more applicable description for extinguishment relations, while the "conflict" in conflict relations is manifested more as inducing a sense of wariness, distaste or even neurosis in the other.


    The reason I think this is because the psychological distance between extinguish types is very close, as one's extinguish type shares a very similar style of cognition with one's dual. This causes information to flow in one another in a very direct manner. However, extinguishment type is in the opposite quadra and therefore has opposing values, The result is a very direct flow of opposing information which predisposes these types towards open fighting and headbutting. In conflict relations this direct flow of information does not occur and therefore they are much easier to ignore then one's extinguishment type even though conflict type expresses one's vulnerabilties more . Therefore unease between conflict types will usually manifest in a more subtle but deeper form then extinguishment.





    Anything to add?

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    I've had these same thoughts before as well. In terms of quality of relations, I still think that the conflictor is the worst possible and extinguishment is to some extent better. However, in terms of the relationship traits suggested by the names themselves I agree with everything you mentioned.

    In the past, when I was noob at typology and had a lower level of self awareness, I erroneously thought that I was EIE. I had actually managed to get into a relationship with a real EII for two years (don't ask). As I'd just started to be reading up on socionics at the time, the relationship dynamics between my then-boyfriend and I had reinforced the idea that I thought I was EIE, as we seemed to be slowly "extinguishing" each other over time from my perception of things.

    But, I now know that he was in fact my conflictor type. So reinforced by my experience, I've always felt like intuitively, (wait.... "reinforced by my *experience*, I've felt intuitively"?.. hmm haha nevermind), the names for conflictor and extinguishment would be better off having been given switched around, in addition to some of the descriptors for those relations. "Conflictor" just sounds bad. Like, it sounds like you'll get into some conflicts from time to time. But "extinguishment", sounds like you'll be wiped off the planet, your ego will be snuffed out from it, which is precisely what ends up happening in the presently named conflictor ITR lmao, so "extinguishment" sounds like it matches it way more. And just because something like the presently named extinguishment ITR can seem bad at first, doesn't mean overall it's going to be an extreme level of crappiness over time. The presently named conflictor ITR is still the worst ITR lol. I've experienced it first hand.
    Last edited by niffer; 05-11-2016 at 03:50 PM.

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    I had an experience similar to @niffer's, with thinking that a Conflictor might be a dual. When I was new to typology, I picked up on some superficial, attractive-seeming signs (your Conflictor can look like your Dual at a distance) and tried to get closer to a Conflictor. The results were classic. She now smiles at me by baring her teeth, and rejoices when things go wrong in my life and makes sure everyone knows what a jerk I am. She once was forced by circumstance and politeness to give me a ride to lunch, and she gave me the impression that I was polluting her car, and that at any moment I would do something horrible, like strangle and gut her just for the hell of it.
    With a second Conflictor, I simply maintain both a physical (never closer than five feet) and a psychological ("It’s a beautiful day", and "Those flowers on your desk look great") distance, and we get along fine.

    My favorite younger sister is LII, my (LIE) Extinguishment partner. I love her dearly, but we do exactly zero things together, aside from talking on the phone every six weeks or so. She recently told me that when growing up, she thought we were the same person (our function stacks are both T-N-S-F), but now she thinks we are nothing alike (Ti-Te, Ne-Ni, Si-Se, Fe-Fi). I think we found out early on that we don’t really agree on what we see or how to do anything in the real world. We still love and support each other, though.

    My LSI GF (Illusionary relations with a LIE) is a curious mix of Dual and Extinguishment partners (and I for her). Her Perceiving functions are exactly those of my Dual, an ESI, and just hanging out with her, comparing our impressions of the world and talking about random stuff, is pretty sweet. The best I’ve ever encountered, in fact.
    However, we have the Judging functions of our Extinguishment partners, so when we try to actively do something together, we completely disagree. Actually, it is worse than simply disagreeing. If we are not very careful, we extinguish each other’s initiatives. “That is the wrong approach.” “That will never work. You don’t know how this works. I do.” “That’s not how things are done”. And she feels this strain as much as I do.

    Contrast this with my semi-dual, the EII, who has my Dual’s Judging functions (and for whom my impression is: “This woman is really smart and sensible and she has great advice for my career, I would be happy taking her anywhere”) but who has my Extinguishment partner’s Perceiving functions (“but I don’t want to live with her – not at all”).

    Of course, it is possible to control your Judging (rational) functions more easily than your Perceiving (irrational) functions, so Mirage (Illusion) is better than Semi-Dual for getting along in intimate relations where your guard is down, but Semi-Dual is better for business and non-intimate friendships.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 05-11-2016 at 05:41 PM.

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    I find a better term for Extinguishment would actually be "Mirage", because there are many ways in which an Extinguishment partner can manage to appear like one's Dual from afar.

    Not "conflict", no.

    With Conflict partners, psychological stress accumulates over time which suddenly erupts like a volcano on both ends – often times the extrovert will be more vocal about it, and the introvert will respond. That is how the fights are often more psychologically damaging and "open". The eruption of the volcano cannot be avoided – it inevitable happens and is destructive. Once the fight/eruption is over, you are still mourning your losses, but you have a certain amount of peace when you are away. But you know for certain the volcano will erupt again in the future...

    With Extinguishment, there is a slow but sure accumulation of resentment or annoyance, which makes both people draw away from each other – sometimes suddenly and abruptly. They just want to avoid the other for some unclear reason, they feel like retreating. If both people don't have the chance to retreat, they may become more snarky, or simply sulk about it. But as far as I know, there is a big lack of a direct confrontation of any kind. That is why there is rarely any "true" conflict. If both people happen to talk about their problems with the other, the resulting "conflict" is at a much lower level energetically – it is not nearly as psychologically threatening as with a Conflict partner, because the PoLR is not being "hit". The arguments also tend to dissolve rather quickly and/or in some kind of nothingness. In this vein, the "real" issue at hand never gets truly resolved. The issues pile on, until the people feel like parting ways – for a certain amount of time, or indefinitely.

    Conflict is more like a slap to the face, whereas Extinguishment is like a smell that initially is pleasant but has the potential to become sour the closer you get – around a certain point, you will flinch naturally.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    With Conflict partners, psychological stress accumulates over time which suddenly erupts like a volcano on both ends – often times the extrovert will be more vocal about it, and the introvert will respond. That is how the fights are often more psychologically damaging and "open". The eruption of the volcano cannot be avoided – it inevitable happens and is destructive. Once the fight/eruption is over, you are still mourning your losses, but you have a certain amount of peace when you are away. But you know for certain the volcano will erupt again in the future...
    This sounds like what I have experienced and witnessed.

    I know a pair of EII-SLE conflictors, and their relationship (finally dissolved as a marriage after 30-something years) went a lot like this, in continuous cycles. I think each of them developed a combination of some certainty that their own way was better than the other's, alongside an even greater insecurity in their respective weakest areas (SLE is extra insecure about Fi, and even his ability to have or deserve good relationships, and EII is extra insecure about standing up for herself when she needs to or even that she has or deserves the right to do so).

    My own experience w conflict relations is that they can look very nice at first, but things end badly w misunderstanding and even resentment on both sides bc of feeling both misunderstood and let down. An LSI woman I used to work w hated me, and for the life of me I never knew why, but knowing socionics I wonder if I simply rubbed her the wrong way without being aware of it. W an LSI guy I went on a few dates w, we ended up mutually annoyed w each other's shortcomings which became obvious only when we tried to connect on a deeper level. I don't think fondly of either of them now, and I don't doubt it's mutual.

    With Extinguishment, there is a slow but sure accumulation of resentment or annoyance, which makes both people draw away from each other – sometimes suddenly and abruptly. They just want to avoid the other for some unclear reason, they feel like retreating. If both people don't have the chance to retreat, they may become more snarky, or simply sulk about it. But as far as I know, there is a big lack of a direct confrontation of any kind. That is why there is rarely any "true" conflict. If both people happen to talk about their problems with the other, the resulting "conflict" is at a much lower level energetically – it is not nearly as psychologically threatening as with a Conflict partner, because the PoLR is not being "hit". The arguments also tend to dissolve rather quickly and/or in some kind of nothingness. In this vein, the "real" issue at hand never gets truly resolved. The issues pile on, until the people feel like parting ways – for a certain amount of time, or indefinitely.

    Conflict is more like a slap to the face, whereas Extinguishment is like a smell that initially is pleasant but has the potential to become sour the closer you get – around a certain point, you will flinch naturally.
    My experience w EIE women is that it seems like we'll get along okay at first bc we seem somehow similar, but when we try we just irritate each other tremendously, to the point of disgust at times. Also, at least one EIE I used to work w would give me advice I'm sure she saw as needed, but that I saw as intrusive (bc we weren't close, and it was none of her business) and redundant (bc I was already doing similar things, just not as obviously as she would have been). I wondered a couple of times if maybe she saw me as a defective version of herself.

    Re: OP, most of the intertype relationship names are probably a little off due to having been translated.

    It's hard to say, from my experience, which is the worse relationship. Both are bad, but while I have had trouble w some EIEs at a closer distance (or, trying to get closer) I have had difficulty w LSIs even without trying to get closer; it's harder to maintain distance from conflictors, I think, because you see glimpses of what you value and enjoy and they fool you from time to time (and vice versa). I think it's easier to protect yourself from extinguishment bc they also mostly suck at what you suck at, even if they're better at faking it sometimes.
    Last edited by SongOfSapphire; 05-11-2016 at 06:20 PM.
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    My mom's boyfriend is LSE. He yells at me for what I think are stupid reasons, and I don't react well to being yelled at for stupid reasons (I get yelled at for stuff like talking about my emotions or not participating in family time) I will get an additude with him right back and usually leave, but other than that I don't have much of an issue with him. He and my IEE mom have a very good relationship and they're happy, so that's all that matters.
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    It has often been said that Super-ego is the real "conflict" relation, and I tend to agree with that. Conflictors mostly just annoy each other, but their life strategies are so far apart that they are able to avoid conflicting head-on, for the most part. On an informational level, the most conflicting elements are and , and , etc. But when it's lead vs suggestive it's far more painful than lead vs lead. Extinguishers tend to just not listen to each other and continue to do what they do while thinking the other is completely misguided. Superegos try to conform to each other's expectations but they can only do so painfully and sporadically, in a way that inhibits their normal behavior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sapphire View Post
    My experience w EIE women is that it seems like we'll get along okay at first bc we seem somehow similar, but when we try we just irritate each other tremendously, to the point of disgust at times. Also, at least one EIE I used to work w would give me advice I'm sure she saw as needed, but that I saw as intrusive (bc we weren't close, and it was none of her business) and redundant (bc I was already doing similar things, just not as obviously as she would have been). I wondered a couple of times if maybe she saw me as a defective version of herself.

    Re: OP, most of the intertype relationship names are probably a little off due to having been translated.

    It's hard to say, from my experience, which is the worse relationship. Both are bad, but while I have had trouble w some EIEs at a closer distance (or, trying to get closer) I have had difficulty w LSIs even without trying to get closer; it's harder to maintain distance from conflictors, I think, because you see glimpses of what you value and enjoy and they fool you from time to time (and vice versa). I think it's easier to protect yourself from extinguishment bc they also mostly suck at what you suck at, even if they're better at faking it sometimes.
    Did you mean IEI instead of EIE? If you're IEE, your extinguishment is IEI, not EIE. EIE would be your quasi-identical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    Did you mean IEI instead of EIE? If you're IEE, your extinguishment is IEI, not EIE. EIE would be your quasi-identical.
    Nope, I meant EIE, which is of course my quasi-identical as you say, which makes my post mostly worthless. I don't have a ton of experience w people who I know are IEI, and w the one I did know well things ended badly (bc she was crazy and stole from me > intertype relations, though). So...thanks for catching that, @niffer. Carry on
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    More fight is with superego. Conflictors are too different.
    Extinguishment relations are less problematic than quasi-identity, as have less possibilities for contact and are more understandable.
    At least, in my experience I remember only extraverts causing meaningful troubles.
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    I don't have deep and meaningful relationships with EIE. I've tried to build a few but seems like we're on two different waive lengths and when they cross it's just for a few hours of silence at a time.

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    The term "conflict" or any variation thereof should not be associated with type structures. Variations in ideologies, ethos, culture, etc. are the sources of most conflicts, and these are independent of type. Type interaction can be subject to process interferences (lack of sync or miscommunication) due to differences in directions, perceptions and priorities but conflict needs one other ingredient: intolerance. Intolerance is not a characteristic of type; Socionics can only predict the ways in which types will dish out intolerance if they're so inclined.

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    After some thought I think that "complementary temperaments" e.g (Je-Ji/Pe-Pi) don't necessarily equate to better quality of relations as many believe, but rather that the flow of information aka psychological distance is the most direct. Relations with the complementary temperament are the most distinct and contrasting to each other. Duality is the most cooperative relationship, extinguishment is the most combative. Mirage mixes these in two in a way that creates true neutrality while semi-dual mixes them in the opposite manner which makes semi-dual a rollercoaster between cooperation and conflict.

    In addition I don't think rationals and irrationals conflict as much as they simply don't understand each others manners and behaviors as much as members of the same rationality. Meaning fulfill cooperation is more difficult with opposite temperament but I also think the bad between them can be more easily be overlooked as well. So in Mirror relations partners behave very differently but share the same values. This creates curiosity to understand one another hence why mirrors often become friends. Conflict types also behave very differently but have opposite values which leads to lack of desire to understand them, thus conflict types have the most the psychological distance and are the least likely to have any interaction of any kind between partners due to lack of innate understanding of one another combined with lack of desire to interact with an other.
    Last edited by Muddy; 05-26-2016 at 02:38 AM.

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    Extinguishment types just seem like that, because they have similar strengths, so they appear to have a fighting chance against you.

    Regardless of what types you encounter, the most important factor will simply be total intelligence. Whoever has the greater total intelligence will "win" any conflicts that arise most of the time. In example, in real life, I shut down all Betas who pressure me. Had an LSI superior at work pressure me a couple of times last week, and now I'm going to sink him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    In example, in real life, I shut down all Betas who pressure me. Had an LSI superior at work pressure me a couple of times last week, and now I'm going to sink him.
    lol

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