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Thread: The common style of Enneagram descriptions in Socionics quadra perspective

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    Caim's Avatar
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    Default The common style of Enneagram descriptions in Socionics quadra perspective

    As I see the descriptions of the Enneagram among most authors and researchers out there,
    I have found some tendencies that they do describe in particular way.
    The thing is, their explanations are not always accurate in terms of characteristics(not the motives or core fears in each types).
    I have wondered why this happens and the reason that I've been sometimes had a hard time adjusting the whole theory was their style of communication(to some extent their personalities as well).

    What I've mostly occurred was that they usually describe in a way that Delta quadras do.
    Those stereotypes of enneagram were mostly saying about the types of Deltas(and some alphas).
    I think that the authors of enneagram would be mostly in delta quadras too.


    Below I'll list some stereotypes of enneagram related to Socionics(I meant stereotypes!) :

    1 : LSE
    2 : ESE
    3 : LSE
    4 : EII
    5 : SLI, LII
    6 : All(but mostly LSE)
    7 : IEE, ILE
    8 : LSE
    9 : SLI, SEI

    These types mostly represents the type descriptions of the enneagram including the famous Don Richard Riso and Russ Hudson(I think they are also Delta as well).
    Their explanations might work well with themselves, but does not apply to every quadras in Socionics.
    Even I am interested in the theories of enneagram, their descriptions made some confusions understanding them fully.

    What I have concluded was their perspective came from Ne-Si axis explaining things.
    Because their observation derives from the Ne way, their explanations were not always came from the reality but their own ways of seeing things which was somewhat vague and abstact(This applies to Socionics as well too although Socionics are more close to Alpha realm).

    So it is not alway applicable to Se-Ni users everytime because we see reality in a different angle. because of this, I suppose some of you guys would have a hard time figuring out your true enneagram type.

    But not only enneagrams but also other typologies including Socionics describe in Ne-Si ways so sometimes I find it hard to understand even for Socionics descriptions.

    So I suggest if you are having problems finding your true self, don't be fooled by the whole descriptions of some types thus they may misguide you. Instead, try to focus on the core essence of the types and fucntions(although this would not be easy too). In order to do this, you might actually need some time and experience to sort it out what your true essence is, rather to succumb on the stereotypical explanations(So sometimes it would be hard especially to Se-Ni users bacause they have to validate on their own everytime in their life experience).

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    Contra's Avatar
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    If it invalidates enneagram, I'm ok with it.

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    ??? Speak for yourself, I'm a Se Ni user and have zero problems with understanding it. Also, your type correlations are bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Contra View Post
    If it invalidates enneagram, I'm ok with it.
    Well partly, but not totally. Still I think enneagram is quite useful in a way that understands your motivation,
    yet the interpretation from some authors(well most of them for me) do sometimes confuses and doesn't fully apply to everyone.
    I think it is because that nuance we perceive differs as a language itself.

    "One measure of test accuracy is that all the test questions that measure a specific personality attribute are highly correlated with each other. Unfortunately it turns out that much of this consistency in descriptive preference tests lies in our language, not in ourselves. This part of psychological test research, called the trait language domain, is very well understood. We know which self descriptive words are correlated with each other; enneagram therapists just string together these related words as a single type narrative. This makes the types easy to understand and apply in therapeutic improvisation."

    http://www.handprint.com/HM/ENN/homewk.html

    I've copied some part of article here and this is the page I linked. You may check it if you want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    ??? Speak for yourself, I'm a Se Ni user and have zero problems with understanding it. Also, your type correlations are bad.
    Haha maybe so. In that case, you may be quite aware of your own motivation with having zero problems. Well that's good for you, cuz you'll know yourself better than anybody. But I'm talking about the possibilties of mistyping due to some unclear notions of the descriptions. You think you may understand it fully but what about the rest of the people? Will they always succeed in knowing their own type as well? I don't think so. I didn't say it wasn't totally comprehensible, but the authors of enneagram have some particular ways of explaining it and so not everybody will apply to themselves fully.

    And you mentioned about type correlations. As I said, it is the stereotypical ways of explaining certain enneagram type regarding Socionics types, but I never said that those types are the only types that are related to each numbers. If you see the explanations in each types in enneagram books, they are quite similar to mostly Delta groups in Socionics. And of course the other quadras do fit in some descriptions since they are also included in the personality type. I am not being unawared about it, I just don't think that they're not the stereotypes of what enneagram is talking about(If you missed it you may check the part 'I meant stereotypes!). I just limited the types intentionally to make the point(And I find those types are the closest of the types related to enneagram descriptions).
    Those views were from the Ne-ego users so they may unconsciously have colored with it.

    Well if you still disagree I don't have anything to say about it, but I want you to see the point I'm making
    (and I'm quite eager to see your Ni function since I lack of it myself and in my real life people).
    Last edited by Caim; 04-24-2016 at 12:29 PM.

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Deltas tend to type me a core 9 when I am clearly a 4 within the system. I think it comes down to best fit not perfect fit. No need to box yourself in to apply it to yourself.

    Tritypes and instincts add dimension to socionics type.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Deltas tend to type me a core 9 when I am clearly a 4 within the system. I think it comes down to best fit not perfect fit. No need to box yourself in to apply it to yourself.

    Tritypes and instincts add dimension to socionics type.
    Exactly.

    I was trying to comprehend the whole stuff and relate to other things to make sense to me. My conclusion was that enneagram itself(or at least how they described) wasn't enough to see the big picture(well also the other typologies such as socionics too). I grew quite tired of doing this relentlessly but still wanted to make things clear. As you mentioned, tritypes and instincts really helped me to solve some of the problems I had, and that kinda made my identity quite firm. However, type confusions and misidentifications still happened to quite many of people I have seen. I was curious about it and as I get to know things more, I found that it was because the perception of each individual differs from each other quite much. So I think some problems stem from the communication style of people as they see the reality differently.

    Well thanks for the comment though
    And I think your self-typing fits you well cuz when I saw your posts, it had 4 vibes to me quite clearly(just my thoughts though haha).

    P.S I also find this very helpful to find my self. It is called 'Strengthfinder'. I wonder you've heard about it

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metal89 View Post
    Well thanks for the comment though
    And I think your self-typing fits you well cuz when I saw your posts, it had 4 vibes to me quite clearly(just my thoughts though haha).

    P.S I also find this very helpful to find my self. It is called 'Strengthfinder'. I wonder you've heard about it
    You're welcome and thank you for noticing.

    I looked up "Strengthfinder" thinking it was that VIA thing but I see it is not the same. https://www.viacharacter.org/www/

    I will check out the one you mentioned.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    You're welcome and thank you for noticing.

    I looked up "Strengthfinder" thinking it was that VIA thing but I see it is not the same. https://www.viacharacter.org/www/

    I will check out the one you mentioned.
    Love of Learning 95%
    Judgement 82.5%
    Prudence 82.5%
    Honesty 82.5%
    Enthusiasm 82.5%
    Curiosity 80%
    Fairness 80%
    Creativity 80%
    Humor 80%
    Leadership 77.5%
    Awe 77.5%
    Wisdom 75%
    Optimism 72.22%
    Gratitude 70%
    Perservance 65%
    Self-control 60%
    Capacity for love 60%
    Kindness 57.5%
    Humility 55%
    Social intelligence 55%
    Teamwork 50%
    Forgiveness 47.5%
    Spirituality 45%
    Courage 40%
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Caim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    You're welcome and thank you for noticing.

    I looked up "Strengthfinder" thinking it was that VIA thing but I see it is not the same. https://www.viacharacter.org/www/

    I will check out the one you mentioned.
    Sorry for the late reply.

    Well actually I was referring to "Gallup Strengthsfinder". http://www.strengthsfinder.com/home.aspx

    Although I've checked the website which you've linked here and I found that it is one of those things based from "positive psychology" founded by Martin Seligman.

    There are several tests and surveys of it and I took some of those too(one of them was in the UPenn homepage).

    My result of those tests were like :

    Honesty
    Wisdom
    Judgement
    Enthusiasm
    Curiosity
    Self-control
    Courage
    Capacity for love
    Fairness
    Optimism
    Kindness
    Leadership
    Spirituality
    Awe
    Prudence
    Creativity
    Humor
    Perservance
    Love of Learning
    Social intelligence
    Gratitude
    Teamwork
    Forgiveness
    Humility

    And I also did "Gallup strengthsfinder" test with all 34 strengths report. Whether the viacharacter test shows you some general aspects of yourself, Gallup has more specific and targeted approach to your strengths which is more practical. So I do recommend Gallup then Via(if you want I can reveal my 34 strengths report from Gallup )
    Last edited by Caim; 04-29-2016 at 02:25 PM.

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    Caim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    Love of Learning 95%
    Judgement 82.5%
    Prudence 82.5%
    Honesty 82.5%
    Enthusiasm 82.5%
    Curiosity 80%
    Fairness 80%
    Creativity 80%
    Humor 80%
    Leadership 77.5%
    Awe 77.5%
    Wisdom 75%
    Optimism 72.22%
    Gratitude 70%
    Perservance 65%
    Self-control 60%
    Capacity for love 60%
    Kindness 57.5%
    Humility 55%
    Social intelligence 55%
    Teamwork 50%
    Forgiveness 47.5%
    Spirituality 45%
    Courage 40%
    So you did the via test

    I think from the result you've shown, you look a bit more INTP then INFP(still Se PoLR though? Apology that I'm a Se dominant ).

    And your Hogwarts house is kinda interesting too.

    Did you register in Pottermore?

    I got Slytherin there haha

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metal89 View Post

    And I also did "Gallup strengthsfinder" test with all 34 strengths report. Whether the viacharacter test shows you some general aspects of yourself, Gallup has more specific and targeted approach to your strengths which is more practical. So I do recommend Gallup then Via(if you want I can reveal my 34 strengths report from Gallup )
    Sure, you can post them in this recent thread.

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...hs-Finder-test

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Caim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Sure, you can post them in this recent thread.

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...hs-Finder-test
    Roger that!

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