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Thread: LSD alters Ni (maybe)

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    Default LSD alters Ni (maybe)

    This article by Scientific American relays a recent study done by Imperial College London on the effects of LSD on the brain as measured through fMRI and MEG. Of the findings, one of particular interest to me is this:

    Results from the studies suggest that LSD simultaneously creates hyper-connections across the brain, allowing the functions of seemingly unrelated regions of the organ to ooze into one another. At the same time, the drug apparently chips away at organization within networks—including a system the brain defers to at rest called the default mode network, which normally governs functions such as self-reflection, autobiographical memory and mental “time travel.”
    Dario Nardi suggests that there are distinct neocortical areas and wiring responsible for the cognition behind type. For INTJs and INFJs (that is, Ni doms) one area that is particular to Ni, as he asserts, is the T6 region (and, in concert, the P4 region) of the brain, which is responsible for mentally traversing timelines, esp. looking toward the future. While the type of thinking involving this region in Dario's research may not be contingent on Default network activation, considering IXI types are conventionally considered to be daydreamers and aloof, it may not be unreasonable to consider that Ni dominance (or any use of Ni and perhaps the T6 region) may be involved with the Default network activation. In addition, it's easy to see how the constituent aspects of the def. network: self-reflection, autobiographical memory, and mental time travel, while not exclusive to IxI's, may have a strong role in the perception and 'use' of Ni information.

    Dario's Ni video (as a note, i'm skeptical of his research):
    If it is the case that LSD alters the organization of the brain's default network then, considering that Ni exists regardless of organization (not withstanding lesions, I suppose), it would be reasonable to expect that long-term LSD use would alter the experience of Ni itself.
    Last edited by Contra; 04-14-2016 at 08:02 PM.

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    I only watched 41 minutes of the video and I can relate to how he describes Ni in a Ni dom. and I agree with his take on Se in relation to Ni. I think he is onto something but what it is I couldn't say for sure. It is a vague impression I have forming into something else. I didn't even get to the LSD part but I used LSD at a very early age (12/13) so I am very interested in watching the rest of the video. I believe it opened up my perception to include dimensions that others do not even sense. Probably enhanced my pattern recognition. I didn't watch that part so I hope he gets into something about that. It is interesting to think about how it might have expanded my consciousness in ways it would not have if I had been older. I feel like I never closed the door between realities experienced before birth. Many children turn off those "imaginary" worlds pretty early but I embraced them even though I was scared when I was really young. LSD helped dispel many of my fears back then.

    I am an abstract, visual, and auditory thinker I explained in the other thread. He talks about the visual and I could really relate to that.


    It was distracting while she translated for Gulenko and slowed everything down. I saw they refer to Gulenko as doctor but when I looked him up I noticed he has a Ph.D. in socionics, not even in psychology. The way people look up to him as a socionics guru is fascinating. I have not related to some of his stuff at all. Maybe it is his way of explaining it that I don't vibe with. I did see a few things that were interesting though. I don't want to get sidetracked by focusing on him right now so I will put that on the back burner and look into it later.

    Dario is also a Ph.D. but his credentials are kind of impressive. I want to watch a video where he explains this without all the others. They are distracting me from his message.


    Editorial Board:

    Editor-in-chief:

    • Aleksandr Bukalov, Ph.D. in Psychology, Ph.D. in Socionics, Director of International institute of Socionics.



    Deputies of
    Editor-in-chief:

    • Olga Karpenko, Ph.D. in Socionics, Vice-Director of International institute of Socionics;
    • Grigory Shulman, Ph.D. in Socionics.



    Advisory Board:

    • Grigory Bukalov, Doctor of Technical Sciences, Professor;
    • Elena Donchenko, Doctor of Sociology;
    • Semen Churumov, Ph.D. in Psychology;
    • Viktor Gulenko, Ph.D. in Socionics;
    • Dmitry Ivanov, MD, PhD.;
    • Yurij Mosenkis, Doctor of Phylology, Professor;
    • Victor Novikov, President of International Academy of Psychology, Doctor of Psychology, Professor;
    • Nikolay Obozov, Academician of International Academy of Psychology, Doctor of Psychology, Professor;
    • Yury Saenko, Doctor of Economics;
    • Grigory Reynin, Ph.D. in Psychology, Ph.D. in Socionics;
    • Vladimir Yermak, Ph.D. in Socionics;
    • Ivan Zyazyun, Ph.D., Professor, Academician of Ukraine Academy of Pedagogical Sciences, Director of Institute of Pedagogic and Psychology of Professional Education.






    Going to finish the video now. It is actually easier to listen than watch this one.

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    Dario's understanding of Ni is much more sophisticated than Gulenko's.

    While listening to this I keep thinking there is some connection to my RFI (bioenergies) reading (image in link) The right side of my brain shown as overstimulated in black. There is a strong mind-body connection and I am very aware of Si stuff even if it is not supposed to be valued.

    Cerebral Bioenergy Analysis - Predominant Thoughts

    The regions of bioelectrical field around the head consist of electromagnetic brain waves. The left head (on right side of chart) shows left brain activity, the right head (on the left side of the chart) shows right brain activity, and the regions on the top of the head show integrated brain activity. The brain waves in these cerebral regions reveal inherent characteristics of the person, particularly their predominant thoughts and mental preoccupations.

    Distribution of detected bioenergies within the Cerebral Regions:

    20% Yellow; 20% Black; 40% Blue; 20% Navy

    Yellow: Happiness and well-being, with a healthy measure of balanced caution.

    Black: Passion, obsession, hatred, intense negative or destructive emotions.

    Blue: Communication, perspective of reality, search for and expression of truth. Open-minded communication with good intentions.

    Navy: Leadership. Expression of intellectual ideas which involve or influence material or social situations.
    I am trying to understand the two Ni perspective thing and it seems he is linking it to Ni in the ILI or IEI. I look from the future to the past and past to future but either way I have a more positive understanding either way. Not that I don't get a bit pessimistic too but generally more optimistic that negative past events led to positive outcomes, in hindsight. There is synergy involved in reconciling the two.

    My MRIs have all been good btw even though I have problems with the T6 area and sometimes pain. Dario says Ni types have many dense connections there. I feel P4 is a strong area for me too. Another area in the top right, FP2, of his chart is a source of migraines with aura for me.
    Last edited by Aylen; 04-14-2016 at 10:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I only watched 41 minutes of the video and I can relate to how he describes Ni in a Ni dom. and I agree with his take on Se in relation to Ni. I think he is onto something but what it is I couldn't say for sure. It is a vague impression I have forming into something else. I didn't even get to the LSD part but I used LSD at a very early age (12/13) so I am very interested in watching the rest of the video. I believe it opened up my perception to include dimensions that others do not even sense. Probably enhanced my pattern recognition. I didn't watch that part so I hope he gets into something about that. It is interesting to think about how it might have expanded my consciousness in ways it would not have if I had been older. I feel like I never closed the door between realities experienced before birth. Many children turn off those "imaginary" worlds pretty early but I embraced them even though I was scared when I was really young. LSD helped dispel many of my fears back then.

    I am an abstract, visual, and auditory thinker I explained in the other thread. He talks about the visual and I could really relate to that.


    It was distracting while she translated for Gulenko and slowed everything down. I saw they refer to Gulenko as doctor but when I looked him up I noticed he has a Ph.D. in socionics, not even in psychology. The way people look up to him as a socionics guru is fascinating. I have not related to some of his stuff at all. Maybe it is his way of explaining it that I don't vibe with. I did see a few things that were interesting though. I don't want to get sidetracked by focusing on him right now so I will put that on the back burner and look into it later.

    Dario is also a Ph.D. but his credentials are kind of impressive. I want to watch a video where he explains this without all the others. They are distracting me from his message.
    My only wish is that Dario would've understood how socionics thinks of Ni and some of the nuances with socionics so that he could explain a little better. It seems he knew the basics of the theory but not a whole lot. It would really come through when people would ask him questions. Im not sure any of the socionists really deserve reverence. I take what i can get from them and discard what seems weird or wrong.

    also, I found the translation painful as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Dario's understanding of Ni is much more sophisticated than Gulenko's.

    While listening to this I keep thinking there is some connection to my RFI (bioenergies) reading (image in link) The right side of my brain shown as overstimulated in black. There is a strong mind-body connection and I am very aware of Si stuff even if it is not supposed to be valued.



    I am trying to understand the two Ni perspective thing and it seems he is linking it to Ni in the ILI or IEI. I look from the future to the past and past to future but either way I have a more positive understanding either way. Not that I don't get a bit pessimistic too but generally more optimistic that negative past events led to positive outcomes, in hindsight. There is synergy involved in reconciling the two.

    My MRIs have all been good btw even though I have problems with the T6 area and sometimes pain. Dario says Ni types have many dense connections there. I feel P4 is a strong area for me too. Another area in the top right, FP2, of his chart is a source of migraines with aura for me.
    What spurred the connection with the RFI bioenergies thing? or what do you think is connected?

    In some ways his ideas of Ni doms as people might be too superficial. I actually wonder if he is a socionics ILI. He's very different from me, but I cant tell if it's in a way that matters to the theory.

    I'd like to get an MRI of my brain just for the hell of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Contra View Post
    My only wish is that Dario would've understood how socionics thinks of Ni and some of the nuances with socionics so that he could explain a little better. It seems he knew the basics of the theory but not a whole lot. It would really come through when people would ask him questions. Im not sure any of the socionists really deserve reverence. I take what i can get from them and discard what seems weird or wrong.
    Agree and really agree with last part.

    also, I found the translation painful as well.
    It got worse and I found myself distracted about an hour in. I was passive listening while doing other things. I seem to absorb it faster that way, sometimes. Like listening to informational videos while I sleep and later things are easier to understand. I never made it to the end. I am going to try to listen again but this time watch it too.


    What spurred the connection with the RFI bioenergies thing? or what do you think is connected?/
    I don't know exactly why but while I was listening to him I kept seeing a visual of my chart (which I had not thought of in a long time). I think it must have sparked a memory of the interpretation the guy, who did the FFI, gave me at the time. It just seemed connected. He told me I had a lot of activity in that area and it could be related to obsession and passion. He also said something about negativity toward my situation in that area but I think I tuned that out because I don't consider myself negative. I was dealing with the death of a close friend when I had it done. I was going over it wondering if I did something wrong and could have prevented it. I was focused on contacting her (supernaturally) which is probably why all the "black". I get obsessive about contacting the dead, when a friend dies, but it passes after a few months. I can't remember exactly so I have to read the computer output.


    In some ways his ideas of Ni doms as people might be too superficial. I actually wonder if he is a socionics ILI. He's very different from me, but I cant tell if it's in a way that matters to the theory.

    I'd like to get an MRI of my brain just for the hell of it.
    I had an MRI that apparently showed artifacts and I thought I had a lesion for a couple of months. I was somewhat dramatically (on the inside) preparing to die. I wrote many last "letters" in my mind to people. Explaining everything I ever wanted them to understand about me that I would not get a chance to tell them. I never put it on paper but I still remember each one. lol

    Turned out it was nothing since it didn't show on the subsequent MRI. Maybe it healed? I was having some visual and auditory disturbances when I got the first one. Now I just think it is part of how I process information. Most of my life I thought my brain was weird but now I can blame socionics and accept it as just another way of experiencing the world. I am somewhat of a medical mystery to my doctors as I have experienced very rare conditions over the years that spontaneously healed. One doctor called it a "miracle" when he had no explanation. That was not in relation to my MRI though.

    Dario's approach to Ni doms is kind of detached or clinical to me but he could be using Ni himself. All descriptions of Ni are pretty superficial (except for Jung but I read a lot into his work and interpret with my own symbology) since it is really hard to relate to others as there is nothing really tangible about it so I guess we just do the best we can making ourselves understood. Sometimes it takes the form of art, music, literature, etc... and even science. I think every type has their own issues with being understood on some level.

    Have you ever just thought to yourself, why can't this person see what I am seeing or understand what seems so simple in your own head? I think people get the wrong impression about Ni doms missing details, and in the case of IEI, being "airheads". It is pretty insulting actually. I can call myself that, even my friends can, playfully, but when it is said seriously it just makes me feel indignant toward the idiot, who has such limited perspective, that they write me off as an "airhead". I think that is why I tone down Fe around some people. Not just Fe polr types.

    We see details (I am going by what other IEI tell me so I can use "we" loosely) but they are blended into a big picture and can be dismissed rather quickly in favor of the most useful information. I am not blind to things. I can even do Te. I do not consider it painful, it can be annoying, maybe, sometimes, because I do not favor it over my own intuition, ever. I just don't always find details important aspects to understanding. They just bog me down in endless speculation.

    I like what he said about seeing multiple timelines all at once. I do that but not like an Ne dom see possibilities. Hard to explain. I still see them as distinct but overlapping timelines and I do see what is most probable according to how the situation is unfolding. I am not likely to share it with anyone unless asked.

    I am aware that there could be other factors that can shift the timeline and probabilities. Like someone mentioned recently, Ni is not omniscient. For me it really comes down to probability > possibility. I could possibly learn to fly a plane but it is not within my probabilities. I have no interest even though I do think I have an aptitude for it, if I applied myself. I am embarrassed to admit I did not get a handle on direction, north, south, east and west, until I was in my late 20s. I had not thought about it until then but now I use the sun as my guide. It was so simple, yet I was scared to learn. I used to get lost a lot driving until I learned that. I had panic attacks if I had to take unfamiliar routes as I had no experience. Now I have driven long distances, alone, with little problem. I have more problems driving with people who keep pointing out where to go. I find that distracting and makes me panicky when there is no need. Some people disturb my flow and will get us both lost by shouting out random instructions like, "turn here now!" when I already have my turn timed. I just need enough of an information base and then I can figure things out. I am good at predicting traffic flow and timing lights when no one is distracting me. I am a really good driver when people leave me alone. Fortunately for me my friends and family trust me enough not to back seat drive. Hmm, I went off track here for a moment.

    Continuing...

    Sometimes I see something that seems trivial, to others, and it turns out to be the most important aspect of a solution . I have been praised for seeing a solution that I was not even aware of giving but the other person knew and would explain it to me. I would say something like, " don't know how I knew. It just came to me". When someone actually understand something I am explaining it is a really comfortable feeling. This can happen with all types and with some effort I can understand most people.

    I had problems with algebra for most of my life. I also had a problem with fractions. An ILI would help me and I would retain it for a short period, long enough to pass tests. Then years later an SLE explained it and it was like a light turned on for me and it clicked. I think I do that for some people with different ideas.

    Sorry, I got on a roll. hahah

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    There's definitely a lot of Ni- "relatedness" in some of the default mode network descriptions. But of course, it seems to be involved in a lot of other things as well. Interesting stuff anyways.

    I have a lot of respect for Nardi, if for no other reason than he's one of the few people in Western academia trying to advance Jungian ideas from the empirical / measurement side. I don't have the neuro chops to actually evaluate his work. In the brief part of video I watched Gulenko seems a lot more interesting than Nardi, could just be me though.

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    From what I have read about LSD effects itself in general sounds a lot like being on Ne. It makes you more childlike wonder and you start to see people as more aggressive than usual. Story of my life.
    This is why it can be a very powerful drug to use as springboard for trajectorial Ni life if you can consciously use it for your own good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by unsuccessfull Alphamale View Post
    From what I have read about LSD effects itself in general sounds a lot like being on Ne. It makes you more childlike wonder and you start to see people as more aggressive than usual. Story of my life.
    This is why it can be a very powerful drug to use as springboard for trajectorial Ni life if you can consciously use it for your own good.
    dunno where this idea of aggression is coming from?

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    Dropped acid once and I've been more of a sensor since. It's like years worth of intuition exploded inside of me at once and left me with a clearer mind. (Yeah, as a Se-dom, I do like not having Ni or Ne complicating shit. )
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