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Thread: open question: how do you feel about complaining?

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    Default open question: how do you feel about complaining?

    I find some kinds of complaining much more tolerable than others. There's a kind of venting which everyone does and needs to do, basically, but in its sense of letting off steam, I don't see it as complaining at all.

    I think the most agitating complaining is when people assume or act as if the very act of them speaking about something is an accomplishment, or they don't realize how they are doing the same things over and over again The gratification or indulgence factor, that's weird and feels inherently unhealthy to me.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Also feel like there is a general difference between how the quadras complain. Betas seem to complain or bitch about things or people in a particular attempt to try to change your mind, or state something for you to agree with or disagree with, and I find that rather frustrating - sometimes they even put things in such terms that your actual opinion is at odds with what they are trying to promote or get you to agree with, although its more so the unhealthier ones that do this. (and I'm sure delta has its own version of this that agitatates betas, see "deltas not talking about things that bother them" etc) . But when what I said happens, I have become accustomed to disregarding their whole narrative, and it frustrates them but I don't really care anymore.

    Gammas on the other hand, seem particularly unconcerned about what you think, and much more interested in the sovereignty and the severity of everyone's opinions (democratic / aristocratic?) . Sure, some of them might try to make a case about something, but they seem on the whole less bound to bitching-as-influence. I feel a little bit like sometimes gammas (maybe with exception to LIEs) sometimes run off of their discontent or bitching, almost as if it was the mainstay of socializing, or, you have to complain to really get your point across. OH YEAH WHO SUCKS TODAY, etc. But this is less annoying by far than betas, as it is more so just.... expressing negative opinion about things or people with very little comparative guilting - it's more just a matter of how much or to what degree you might agree or disagree.

    Alpha complainting seems so weird as they often appear veiled or constrained when they do it. Clearly not as "well versed" in the art of freely expressing hate or disgust as gammas, there's often an element of struggle, and even sometimes an uncomfortable feeling that it is MY problem that they are having to deal with something that bothers them - simply because I brought it up or am related to it.

    Alpha and Beta somewhat tie for me in terms of the ineffectiveness of their complaints, in that Betas seem mostly concerned with convincing themselves or getting a group of people to have some sort of consensus (often without concern for accuracy, it feels), whereas Alphas seem more just inept or caught in some kind of complaining about how things are uncomfortable and things should 'just go away'. Gammas, on the other hand, seem entirely unable to get over some things or, perhaps more so, might over attribute one thing, even if it is true, and not be able to get beyond it or even conceive that such maneuverability is possible. A classic example that you will assuredly come across is the ESI who endlessly complains about a coworker or person in their life but does almost nothing to augment the situation, or the ILI who will simply be content with you being a terrible person forever and never inputting anything further into their perfect intuition of who you are.

    Which of course, leaves us Delta. Overall, sure, the easiest to sort out. The STs sometimes bitch about things that could easily be solved with some extending from themselves and showing minimal degrees of diplomacy or benevolence, and the NFs have the inverted problems of being able to avoid so much stress just by being ok with telling people no or not feeling like a bad person because they don't give someone something. So I suppose it's not so much that deltas have less problems, but perhaps that the arena for their problems feels more sane than the other quadras.

    On the whole, I don't think any quadra really has it better than the others here, but I think it's an interesting lens to look through to see what / why / how the nature of some forms of complaining can feel how it does.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Everyone complains. I complained a lot about the medical protocols in place when my dad needed to have his first amputation. Now that his second is nearing I hope that all my complaining would have made them reevaluate the urgency of a quick and speedy procedure.

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    When I hear the word "complaining" I can't help but remember the verse "Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world." Which sounds like it appeals a bit to the holier-than-thou side of things, but I believe in context has more to do with being humble and caring for others. There's a lot of ugliness in the world, and justice and kindness and goodness is beautiful.

    Anyway, I do think that keeping complaining and arguing to a minimum is best. Being able to say what you think and feel is good. Aptly expressing opinions and feelings is good. Art is good. Even letting steam off (in the right situation and to the right people) can be good. Taking a stand for what you believe is right is good. Communicating is good. Going on uselessly about what you don't like... meh. Lots of arguing... I don't actually like it.

    It's not appealing in other people and it eventually makes me feel gross.

    The kind of gray area for me personally is when I complain about how I'm physically feeling, particularly to people who've shown they might care. Like is it complaining or informing? Probably more the former, but I do it a bit anyway when I'm feeling uncomfortable...
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    It depends on the person and my closeness to her, I have a certain threshold for people I don't know very well. I lean easily towards negativity, so it puts me into a sour mood and I start feeling like something's wrong with the world. It has to do with taking the complaint at face value, which doesn't happen when I know the person because I see it more as the expression of feelings that I understand (instead of a statement about the world making me uncomfortable). Also, I can't stand people whining just to arouse feelings, it's one of the few things that can make me lose my temper.

    Otherwise, I believe that people should do what they feel like doing and not force themselves to be positive when they are not. There's a ratio though, you should complain within reason or see a therapist.
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    Probably a Merry/Serious related thing.

    Merry wants to emotionally vent, do nothing to change it, and rationalize why they must endlessly vent while doing nothing.

    Serious doesn't want to vent, wants to do something to change it instead, and gives their rationale behind their behaviors if questioned.

    My complaining, which isn't even really complaining, is most likely to end with basically "*shoulder shrug* oh well, that's me."

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    I think it's a necessary part of processing the emotion and something that can be healthy for the mind, though it seems to he shunned by many. I've heard people apologising for not being happy while having relatives dying of cancer, which is absolute bullshit. You're allowed to not be happy all the time, and forced happiness is horrifying.

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    Complaining should be outlawed. I really can't stand people who complain so much. Who do you think you are? Do you think people are going to listen to you? Why are you wasting your time? Why must you be so petty? So intolerant? So rude? Who cares that the shirt you like doesn't come in your favorite color? Who cares if I end if a sentence in a preposition or TYPE IN ALL CAPS. Everytime a person complains on here, they should get an infraction. 3 infractions and you're permanently banned.

    I don't know about you but I feel better already.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    I have never been much of a complainer about anything. I am practically pain intolerant but somehow I can smile and bear it it around other people. The main reason is I don't like to bring unwanted attention to myself.

    I can become a bit whiny when sick but only around people I know care that I am sick. If I am complaining it is not just to hear myself talk. I think of the effects/affects it will have on others. I usually tolerate a lot of nonsense and try to lighten up a situation before I have had enough and complain about it.

    Isn't beta supposed to be the quadra least likely to spoil other people's good time less likely to complain? Serious quadras seem more likely to complain about conditions or vent their own frustrations without thinking about the influence on other people's moods in group situations. Also beta value Se so more likely to take action to fix a problem than complain about it. I might get annoyed a little if people keep loading the dishwasher wrong but instead of harping on it I will rearrange it myself or just let it be. I can't focus energy on other people's mistakes. I have my own to deal with.

    If you want to hear a real complainer, check this person out. lol I wonder what type he is. Too rigid and uptight compared to any beta I know. He uses humor but there is something very strange about it to me. Not that I didn't laugh a couple times.







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    I would say the above videos are beta ST. Lots of logical Ti inconsistencies he points out but does it in a very forceful, aggressive manner.

    I found them hilarious but found his use of the 'F word' quite excessive.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    I would say the above videos are beta ST. Lots of logical Ti inconsistencies he points out but does it in a very forceful, aggressive manner.

    I found them hilarious but found his use of the 'F word' quite excessive.
    I have watched a few more and some are really funny but then others are annoying and too critical for my taste. I don't mind the "F word" as much as the criticism he shows in some videos. My mom is the biggest beta complainer I know but it is complaining more than criticism. I think Te can be overly critical. I am not sure which types complain more or if it is type related. More likely temperament related than quadra.

    Complain more. Criticize less.

    Criticism is a destructive global attack on a person's personality, childhood, history, or character. Complaints, however, are about a person's behavior--a specific thing, time, and place. With complaints there is no attack, but there is emotion and a direct focus on the actual problem. The marriage research of John Gottman points to criticism as one of the basic relationship poisons that breeds contempt, also known as hatred. High levels of contempt for your partner is the number one predictor of unhappiness and divorce. It is at this simple but powerful crossroad of criticism and complaint that the actual life or death of your marriages lies.

    For example, a productive complaint would be, "I am so mad at you for not doing the dishes last night like you said you would. I had to deal with them this morning and was late for work!" Stop there. Shut up. This will focus her and you on what really happened. You see complaints aren't happy and positive. They are direct about how you really feel about what is actually happening or just happened. You need to keep the conversation on the working-out-the-dishes problem to find out what is possible with that frustration.Now, it is easy to turn a complaint into poisonous criticism by just adding, "What is wrong with you?" or "Don’t you love me?" or "How many times to I have to tell you to do something?" "You are just like your mother." "Your therapy isn't working." See the difference? Yes, I know her behavior is frustrating you. Yes, I know she does these things often. But, criticizing her won’t change her behavior. In marriage, all criticism is destructive and a deadly poison.Every relationship with a long-term commitment, especially marriage, has issues to complain about. Some of those issues are resolvable, and some aren't.




    Is there such a thing as constructive criticism?

    Not really?

    Criticism seems more like a punch in the stomach than a helpful hint. Complaints are a different animal altogether. The major difference between a criticism and a complaint is that a criticism is a personal attack and a complaint is about who we are.

    Criticism creates defensiveness.

    How could it be otherwise?

    Defensiveness is a knee jerk response to criticism; it’s payback. A complaint on the other hand aspires to loftier goals; it’s about your inner world.

    In my work I have to say things to people that are really hard to hear. I must provide insights without judgment or criticism.

    Otherwise, they are up and out the door, never to be seen again. Criticism is always about the past but complaints can be about the future.

    You did the wrong thing as opposed to this is what I want moving forward. Whenever you express your complaint as a wish, need or a want, you are creating the possibility of a positive outcome.

    Criticism is always negative whereas a complaint can be quite positive.

    Complaints give your partner something to do whereas a criticism paints them into a corner. They are bad and there is no way out. A proper complaint is an exit strategy.

    John Gottman, the author of The Seven Principles for A Happy Marriage interviewed over 12, 000 couples. He describes the “four horsemen” of a failed marriage as criticism, defensiveness, contempt and stonewalling.


    Highly critical couples are doomed to failure because criticism is a disconnect and ultimately a shut down.

    The difference between a criticism and a complaint might look like:

    1. Criticism: “If you could ever think of anyone besides yourself you would know that I needed your help today. You bailed and left me holding the bag.”

    2. Complaint: “Next time we have a function in our home could we sit down and plan, so we are on the same team. I need your help.”

    3. Criticism: “Are you so selfish that you can’t even remember my birthday. You can’t get anything right?”

    4. Complaint: “I know how busy you are, but it really would mean a lot to me if next year on my birthday we worked out a plan so we could celebrate, it would mean the world to me.”

    Criticism and complaints have one thing in common, they both relate to differences between people. Differences create conflict which is natural and unavoidable.

    Differences can be about life-style, culture, past experiences, morals and values. It’s not that we will never get angry or have conflicts; it’s about how we handle them.

    http://relationshipadvicecafe.com/cr...and-complaint/
    This video I found more annoying than the rest.


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    Depends on how one is defining complaining. I see some in the thread go for more serious examples of people simply expressing their unhappiness that has been caused by dire circumstances. That is what it is, sometimes it's a genuine display of articulating distress and thus a means of minimizing one's egotistical concerns and confronting deeper needs. Sometimes it can be framed in a way that seems pity/attention seeking and thus I find that to be a bit much. I take complaining more along the lines of some self centered expression of aggrieved entitlement. For example: oh no, someone said or did something that offended me, now let me harangue everyone I know about how my fragile little ego couldn't take that. Petty ego shit. That shit leaves me filled with contempt. If it's more along the lines of complaining in the context of being in a job or being a consumer then it typically depends on how reasonable the complaints are, to what degree one's interests are being protected and so on.

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    It destroys the Soul.
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