The Phenomena of Dual by I/O

[Rebelondeck]

Dual partners are similar in that their respective control-systems are both steered by either input or output processes. The p-types would center around input acquisition while j-types focus on output production. Most importantly, all types measure success by how well either the input or output imperatives are achieved; and they measure their partners by their contribution to that success. It's takes a lot more personal energy for p-types to fulfill j-type expectations, and vice versa.

Duals understand their partner's thinking patterns because they adopt that same pattern as a secondary mode of operation (particularly when under stress). Even their superego traits have a dual quality. To have ones secondary processing configurations ever present in a partner is subconsciously very comforting.

Duals have opposite processing preferences, but juxtaposed, there are root similarities that facilitate communication. F-processes are and produce N-information while T-processes are and produce S-information. F and N are of a relative nature while T and S deal in absolutes. The output processes of one dual partner feed and supplement the input processes of the other.

One dual partner has an externally-referenced modus operandi while the other is internally-referenced, which in partnership, provides broader perspectives of and more diverse tools for the environment. Separate sets of references also facilitate independent space where each partner can operate unhampered by the other. The adaptable nature of one partner supports the stabilizing effects provided by the other, and vice versa. Stability and adaptability are key to the success of all relationships.

One dual partner primarily uses closed-loop processes while the other functions open-loop. Open-loops act according to prescribed plans or visions while closed-loops perform best ad hoc, adjusting as they go. Two closed-loops or two open-loops can partner successfully but they'll struggle over who takes the lead and what are the priorities. Two closed-loops may fight for center stage while open-loops would tend to sit tight on their separate respective islands and fail to communicate.

Dual partnerships have the most complementary, information-processing structures but it is only one of many necessary ingredients. It's interesting to note that mirror partnerships are the least complementary. However, so many other factors have to exist to ensure long-term success of any partnership such as need, conducive environment, equal self-worth, distinct roles, physical attraction, common vision, and most of all, trust. Each partner also has to be able to put up with all the baggage that the other brings into the relationship. It's not surprising that there is such a high percentage of break-ups........

[ouronis]

.

Duals understand their partner's thinking patterns because they adopt that same pattern as a secondary mode of operation (particularly when under stress). Even their superego traits have a dual quality. To have ones secondary processing configurations ever present in a partner is subconsciously very comforting.
..

Can you explain what you mean here by secondary mode of operation and what pattern refers to in this context?

[Beautiful sky]

Baggage is hard very hard for me to deal with right now.

[Beautiful sky]

How about the ones who know socionics and just say "you're not my dual" and but up a wall That has hhappened. One other thing physical attraction trumps all things for a lot of people who can't understand that MINIMAL attention is needed not a full scale

[Rebelondeck]

ouronis,

Note that I don't adhere to Socionics models. My perception of secondary mode is covered here:

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Stress-by-I-O?

a.k.a. I/O

[Beautiful sky]

There's no such thing as finding a dual that's your style. What is this a candy machine? You get a dual be happy with it or shut up and get another type. I hate how shallow and baseless people can be

[Rebelondeck]

How about the ones who know socionics and just say "you're not my dual" and but up a wall That has hhappened. One other thing physical attraction trumps all things for a lot of people who can't understand that MINIMAL attention is needed not a full scale

Maritsa,

Basic instinct usually trumps cognitive behaviour. Ethics or lack thereof is in the software over top of type. And, many people often want more of what they don't need, and they'll lie to get it..........


a.k.a. I/O

[Rebelondeck]

There's no such thing as finding a dual that's your style. What is this a candy machine? You get a dual be happy with it or shut up and get another type. I hate how shallow and baseless people can be

Maritsa,

I have been very happy with other types (some of them duals) but they weren't content with me; that's life for one INTj. I found my current dual ten years ago by accident and if she didn't take the initiative, I would have certainly missed it. Our 'style' and interests are polar opposite and at our age, there's a lot of baggage; however, the timing was right. I'm regularly surprised about how easily we co-exist and seem to read each others mind, right from the beginning - and our interests have found some common ground but mostly we trust each other. In tense situations like air travel, I turn into her type (become chatty) and she turns into a reflective INTj - both of us on different occasions have remarked about the phenomena.......

a.k.a. I/O

[Jeremy8419]

This is off-topic, but I just realized that your moniker looks like a penis and a vagina.

[Rebelondeck]

Jeremy8419,

Wasn't there also the image of a prophet seen in the stains on someone's house siding, and many believed that it was a sign......

a.k.a. I/O

[Jeremy8419]

I was more thinking like a Freudian Slip of humanity lol

[Aylen]

Jeremy8419,

Wasn't there also the image of a prophet seen in the stains on someone's house siding, and many believed that it was a sign......

a.k.a. I/O

and I had Jesus on toast for breakfast!



Not really. I don't eat breakfast.

[Rebelondeck]

To all,

I had meant to post this thread under the Alpha Quadra but I do not know how to correct my error. Some of the words may be applicable to other Quadra but I was not thinking beyond Alpha.

a.k.a. I/O

[Sol]

closed-loop, open-loop = heresy loop

[Rebelondeck]

Sol,

Loops are programmed in that language but no. I think I have an explanation in comments C3 and C5 to another article I had written. See:

http://www.socionics.com/advan/comme...ml?mytake.html

a.k.a. I/O

[Aylen]

Sol,

Loops are programmed in that language but no. I think I have an explanation in comments C3 and C5 to another article I had written. See:

http://www.socionics.com/advan/comme...ml?mytake.html

a.k.a. I/O

The IXXp compare everything and everybody to internalized references - their knowledge bases. One may think of them as introverts because they prefer input, but they do need interactive engagement (with others and or things) in order to be productive. They need to touch, debate and or spar with subjects, colleagues and or confidants. To change genre, they would need to expand their circles of exposure and acquaintances. Input (this could be reading) is natural for them but output (say writing a novel) would not, especially if the task required long periods of isolation. They seem to like immediate results upon which they can get feedback (from someone?); writing short dense pieces such as commentaries or poetry would be easier for them. I know an INFp who dislikes reading, writing and anything else considered boring but can spend hours drawing, an interactive activity that woud be considered boring for other IXXp. You would need to talk with others of your own particular type in your field about specific strategies. -- I/O

I relate to the parts I put in bold. I also need enough alone time to develop and process ideas. I don't want to be interrupted while writing since I may lose something, that is taking form, forever. Sometimes listening to music is enough input to be productive and other times I prefer it from actual people. I am more reclusive lately but that could change as it runs in cycles.

[Rebelondeck]

Alyen,

I would have thought that an Ip would have phrased your sentences something like: "I also need enough alone time to scrutinize important information. I don't want to be interrupted while acquiring this information since I may lose something, that is taking form, forever." The way the sentences were phrased seemed a little Ij-ish. The "runs in cycles" is definitely Ip-ish.

a.k.a. I/O

[Rebelondeck]

Alyen,

The way that you expressed yourself could also be interpreted as Ep-ish. I could see this if you are Ip and feel under pressure to write.

a.k.a. I/O

[Jeremy8419]

So, I/O, what are you trying to do anyways? Crack the code? To what ends? Your dual-seeking function involves using people to get what you want. That's not exactly the sort of thing people are willing to help with.

[Rebelondeck]

Jeremy8419,

I think I've cracked it. It's just difficult to get soft scientists to pursue an engineering approach. This is a learning excursion and I don't take it very seriously because I know I would be pushing against the end of a rope. I'm looking for insight rather than quotes from current literature by people who don't have their own opinions. And yes, in career, my bosses and people reporting to me have never liked it when I've gotten serious about projects; I was a highly successful but very demanding closer.

a.k.a. I/O

[Jeremy8419]

Jeremy8419,

I think I've cracked it. It's just difficult to get soft scientists to pursue an engineering approach. This is a learning excursion and I don't take it very seriously because I know I would be pushing against the end of a rope. I'm looking for insight rather than quotes from current literature by people who don't have their own opinions. And yes, in career, my bosses and people reporting to me have never liked it when I've gotten serious about projects; I was a highly successful but very demanding closer.

a.k.a. I/O

You have to state why you inherently want to crack it.

[Aylen]

Alyen,

I would have thought that an Ip would have phrased your sentences something like: "I also need enough alone time to scrutinize important information. I don't want to be interrupted while acquiring this information since I may lose something, that is taking form, forever." The way the sentences were phrased seemed a little Ij-ish. The "runs in cycles" is definitely Ip-ish.

a.k.a. I/O

I don't think word choice has much to do with my type or type in general. English was not my first language. I was taught to read and write by an Aunt who I am pretty sure now was ESI. I didn't start public school until I was 7. I picked up things from various teachers and authors over the years. Like I said in the other thread, I have used almost every phrase/word that is attributed to various types, more times than I can count.

I would have felt pretentious if I said "scrutinize" in that sentence. It usually isn't someone else's information when this happens. It is when I am writing my own stuff. I don't scrutinize my poetry or stories. I allow them to develop out of the ethers. I have had writer's block for some time so I grab every moment of inspiration.

I have become a lazy writer on forums and it really does run in cycles. I probably should use commas more.

It is a part of socionics that I decided isn't very important in relation to me, or anyone else here, after scrutinizing it. Maybe we might type a robot by it. Most people I know can adequately use the following list of words and phrases. I would sound simple-minded if I limited myself to the Ni approved semantics.

Introverted Intuition Ni
Related words


* anticipate, expect, envision, await, sense, foresee
* causation, influence, consequence
* reflect, mirror, signal, indicate, point to (''all figurative'')
* clear, muddy, muddled, foggy, hazy, murky, blurry, fuzzy, faint (''all figurative'')
* bode, foreshadow, predict, promise, dream, echo (''figurative''), calamity
* disturbing, troublesome, troubling, worrisome, troubling, foreboding, sinister, ominous, fateful
* calm, serene, tranquil, idyllic
* mysterious, cryptic, deep, shallow, obscure
* recollect, remember, retrieve, recall, call up, hark back to
* indefinite, vague, uncertain, unclear, nebulous, unknowable
* mire, quagmire, morass (''all figurative'')
* contemplate, think over, mull over, ponder, chew over, muse, reflect, ruminate, meditate
* transitory, ephemeral, fleeting, passing, short-lived, transient


Real examples of Ni-related statements


* Another week has vanished into the netherness of "history".
* My past is a blur.
* This is highly unlikely.
* I guess it's a matter of interpretation...
* It depends on perspective one takes ...
* The thing I still find unclear is...
* my thoughts are all tangled
* in the spirit of ...
* perhaps we shall meet in person again... indeed time will tell...
* I recently got the clearest vision I ever had in my life
* It was the culmination of the ineffable poignancy of my youth.
* this might seem to suggest that ...
* wait a little, she's taking her time thinking it over
* It flows smoothly between them rather than switching suddenly from one to the other across a gap.
* All there is light. We see not yet just because we are blinded by its holy flame. But thats all there is to come. (Fe-Ni, Ni-creative)
* Actually its not real confession, but more in a way of my belief that the universe through people wants to again find its most glorified position of finding love and oneness through the lack of it. (Fe-Ni, Ni-creative)


Features of Ni speech
Ni types naturally look beyond what happens on the surface to the underlying dynamics and thus omit many specifics in conversation. To Si-ego types this may give an impression that they don't know what they are talking about or are being intentionally vague which evokes suspicion. Ni-ego types may have difficulty putting their thought processes into exact words. Since these are dynamic types, their imagery is not static but evolving due to their progressive thought process. When you hear to them tell a story, it is similar to watching a video i.e. one easily sees how one thing leads to another (if-this-then-that).


Ni types may talk in terms of probabilities and likelihoods when referring to past situations and information. When talking about future course of events, instead of using conditional tense ("what might happen") they will more frequently use affirmative future tense ("this will happen").

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ation-Elements

Information Aspect Semantics by Prokofieva

Full article: http://en.socionics.ru/index.php?opt...254&Itemid=137

Logic of Actions Te

Action – movement, activity, transfer, deed, achievement.
Knowledge – qualifications, method, skills, fact, erudition.
Work – business team, instrument, mechanism, process of production, technology, ability to work, functioning.
Reason – adequacy, profit, common sense, use, pragmatism, reasonable actions, rationality, rationalism, expediency, effectiveness.
Economics – enterprise, worth, ability to do with money, price.

Logics of Relationships Ti

Dimension – more-less, long – short, parameter, distance, commensurability, comparison, standard.
Understanding – analysis, detail, synthesis, universality.
Order – leveling, classification, control, sequence, to range, strictness, register.
System – regularity, hierarchy, organization, cause and effect relations, theory.
Structure – positional relationship of objects, interrelations, construction, subordination, position, correlation, chart.
Formal logics – algorithm, distance, proof, “if – then”, law, instruction, informatics, cybernetics, mathematics, official relations, rights and duties, rules (including etiquette), programming, equality, justice, statistics, equation.

Ethics of Emotions Fe

Agitation – fervour, indignation, nervousness, dormancy, pressing, emotional experience, depression, calmness, passion, ecstasy.
Stimulus to action – inner impulses, mood, determination, fanaticism, energy, enthusiasm.
Expressing emotions – artistry, hot temper, impetuosity, intonation, use of superlatives in speech (ugly, sinister, remarkable, disgusting, charming, marvelous, spectacular), weeping, restraint, ability to control emotions.
People’s emotions - admiration, wrath, mood, insult, panic, sorrow, joy, romanticism, fear, anxiety.

Ethics of Relationships FiMoral categories – good – evil, ideology, morals, morality, decency, religion, conscience, good – bad.
Attraction – obtrusiveness, tiresomness, dislike, repulsion, attachment, psychological distance, inclination.
Feelings expression – undue familiarity, tactfulness, diplomacy, mercy, tenderness, indulgence, tolerance, ability not to hurt, humaneness.
Feelings – kindness, envy, anger, love – hatred, sympathy – antipathy, compassion.
Peoples’ relationships – animosity, friendship.

Intuition of Opportunities Ne

Seeing opportunities – insight, feeling of unity and interrelation of processes, striving for coming to the point, integral perception.
Opportunities – viability, potential, resource, abilities, talent, chance.
Uncertainty – suddenly, “pie in the sky”, somebody, polysemy, maybe, perhaps, unusual, unexpectedness, paradox, something.
Search – choice, hypothesis, guess, intention, ideas, invention, find, irradiation, optimality, discovery, supposition.
Gist – inner structure, real feature, basis, openness, contents, essence, publicity, simplicity, purity.

Intuition of Time Ni

Time – future – past, time interval, uptime, some day, moment, pause, period, later, duration, timeliness, deadline.
Doing with time – to wait – to catch up, generations relationships, time esteem, planning, prevention, accuracy, time management, to hurry, strategy.
Prognosis – perspective, foresight, retrospective.
Processes development in time – genealogy, changeability, history, youth – old age, be about to happen, sequence of events, the present, getting experience, development, earlier – later, epochs changing, evolution.
Speed – fast – slowly, deceleration, rhythm, soon – long, tempo, acceleration.

Will Sensorics Se

Possession – wish, ownership, to defend, alignment of forces, striving, sphere of influence, tactics, territory, ability to take the area, feeling of being a master, expansion, “I want”.
External qualities – looks, contrast, beauty, form, colour, brightness.
Mass – many, gathering, crowd.
Manifestation of will qualities – readiness to use one’s energy, to reach (to get), goal achievement, to conquer, to make smb. do smth., to give orders, leadership, complete readiness to action, to suppress, to subdue, decisiveness, to assault.
Force – weight, ponderability, power, will to win, pressure, violence, repulse, will-power, resistance, confidence, physical strength.
Status – authority, ambitions, standing, importance.

Sensorics of Sensations Si

Sensations – gustatory (bitter, sour, sweet, salt), tactile (prickly, soft – hard, sharp, fluffy, rough), colour tones, pliant, pleasant, firm, resilient.
State of health – health, delight, rest, relaxation, satisfaction.
Taste to life – harmony, design, quality, “a real bird in the hand”, convenience, pleasure, cosiness, aesthetic satisfaction, comfort.
Sensing oneself in space and time – here and now, sense of area, sense of one’s relations with area, quality of area, ability to render area. Reliability.[/QUOTE]



Information Element Semantics from Wikisocion


Extraverted Intuition Ne
Related words

* in general, basically, for the most part, more or less, pretty much
* general, overall, basic, main, core, fundamental, overview
* guess, suppose, imagine, reckon, conjecture, venture, hazard
* possibility, potential, likelihood, opportunity, chance, luck, fortune
* important, key, critical, crucial
* origin, crux, root, source
* initially, recently, any moment now, at the moment, until, since, later, once again, sometimes, occasionally, frequently, often, all the time, every time
* sudden, abrupt, unpredictable
* option, alternative, choice, crossroads, juncture
* coincidence, concurrence
* come together, fall into place (''of events'')

Real examples of Ne-related statements:

* get to the root of
* you basically imply that...
* What I really meant was more that...
* Here's another idea.
* I have a prospect/opportunity for you.
* Here is another option...
* Just some random thoughts...
* in the long run it makes more sense to...
* ... and discovered lots of parallels with other things
* Within a week or so...
* that's the main commercial activity I've been involved in here recently since...
* it seems that things are coming together to allow me to do this
* Any ideas where we can...?
* ... has real potential
* You seem to have found a great niche
* Imagine that!
* Something really interesting is...
* Now just imagine for a second that...
* Suppose we go there and...
* I happen to have just spoken to him.
* Now is the critical moment.
* If I had gotten there earlier, I would have had time to figure things out first.
* One thing I have noticed is that...
* It has become clear to me lately that...
* I'm starting to realize...
* I'm pretty good at figuring out...
* So hypothetically...
* Well I think in that situation I would have responded in such-and-such a way.
* I just had one of those breaking-through-a-layer-of-the-matrix twilight-zone like experiences (creative Ne)

Features of Ne speech
Ne-ego types have a tendency to use the conditional tense frequently, ex: "would be", "what might happen," etc.


Introverted Intuition Ni
Related words

* anticipate, expect, envision, await, sense, foresee
* causation, influence, consequence
* reflect, mirror, signal, indicate, point to (''all figurative'')
* clear, muddy, muddled, foggy, hazy, murky, blurry, fuzzy, faint (''all figurative'')
* bode, foreshadow, predict, promise, dream, echo (''figurative''), calamity
* disturbing, troublesome, troubling, worrisome, troubling, foreboding, sinister, ominous, fateful
* calm, serene, tranquil, idyllic
* mysterious, cryptic, deep, shallow, obscure
* recollect, remember, retrieve, recall, call up, hark back to
* indefinite, vague, uncertain, unclear, nebulous, unknowable
* mire, quagmire, morass (''all figurative'')
* contemplate, think over, mull over, ponder, chew over, muse, reflect, ruminate, meditate
* transitory, ephemeral, fleeting, passing, short-lived, transient

Real examples of Ni-related statements

* Another week has vanished into the netherness of "history".
* My past is a blur.
* This is highly unlikely.
* I guess it's a matter of interpretation...
* It depends on perspective one takes ...
* The thing I still find unclear is...
* my thoughts are all tangled
* in the spirit of ...
* perhaps we shall meet in person again... indeed time will tell...
* I recently got the clearest vision I ever had in my life
* It was the culmination of the ineffable poignancy of my youth.
* this might seem to suggest that ...
* wait a little, she's taking her time thinking it over
* It flows smoothly between them rather than switching suddenly from one to the other across a gap.
* All there is light. We see not yet just because we are blinded by its holy flame. But thats all there is to come. (Fe-Ni, Ni-creative)
* Actually its not real confession, but more in a way of my belief that the universe through people wants to again find its most glorified position of finding love and oneness through the lack of it. (Fe-Ni, Ni-creative)

Features of Ni speech
Ni types naturally look beyond what happens on the surface to the underlying dynamics and thus omit many specifics in conversation. To Si-ego types this may give an impression that they don't know what they are talking about or are being intentionally vague which evokes suspicion. Ni-ego types may have difficulty putting their thought processes into exact words. Since these are dynamic types, their imagery is not static but evolving due to their progressive thought process. When you hear to them tell a story, it is similar to watching a video i.e. one easily sees how one thing leads to another (if-this-then-that).

Ni types may talk in terms of probabilities and likelihoods when referring to past situations and information. When talking about future course of events, instead of using conditional tense ("what might happen") they will more frequently use affirmative future tense ("this will happen").


Extraverted Sensing Se
Related words

* people's appearance, looks: beautiful, gorgeous, ugly, fat, skinny, ripped, blonde, red-head, tall, short
* physical properties of objects: shape, size, mass, weight, dimensions, length, width, height, depth, big, huge, tiny, small, enormous, large, round, square, bent, straight, flat, stretched out, wide, high, low, narrow, thin
* physical modifications: throw, take, pull out, push, stuff, open, let out, hang, pick up, set, squeeze, crush, pick, shake, grab, snap up, bend, shove, stick, jab, yank, whack, fling, thrash, bang, bump, slice, cut, break, crush, beat
* rip into, size up, take down, bring down, tear down, build up, tackle, hold up, withstand, take, handle
* lock on, target
* flinch, vacillate, crack, collapse, cave in, give in, crumble
* protect, fight, strengthen, weaken, intrude, defend, put up with, resist
* restrain, control, submit, subdue (''all figurative as well as literal'')
* pop up, flash by, disappear, look around, immediately noticed
* shiny, flash, sparkle, twinkle, light up, glitter, glare
* this high, this low, this much, this little (''while showing with your hands'')
* inside, around, behind, far away, across, in the middle, backwards, at a slant, from the side, nearby, right in front of
* that one, this one, this thing, that one over there, here, there, from here, over here
* solid, limp, weak, strong, active, relaxed, restrained, energetic, mobilized, ready

Real examples of Se-related statements

* don't throw words around
* amorphous butts
* Shove that into your mind.
* Get a life!
* my restless desire to just graduate is getting the best of me
* on the ball
* People just want to see me crumble.
* When life throws you a curve ball, you've got to handle it.
* Just sit down!
* Oh shut up, man! (''in jest'')
* I have to take a lot of crap.
* Don't cry over spilled milk.
* They cornered me
* No matter what, I'll be on top.
* fold under pressure
* clean up your act
* We need to keep our eyes on the ball.
* How dare you!
* She looks strong enough.
* you had a pretty controlled reaction to it
* you don't have a life off the screen!
* anything you come up with is as far from reality as you are from a vagina

Features of Se speech
Statements of Se leading or creative types often reflect what currently *is* rather than how events are evolving (unlike Ni-ego types) since all Se-ego types are static. On forums, Se types may suddenly switch to writing in large font sizes in order to make an impact.


Introverted Sensing
Related words

* sensation, impression
* sense, feel (not emotionally, but physiologically or 'in one's gut')
* get into, adapt, adjust, make oneself at home
* to stomach, to stand, to tolerate
* people's physical characteristics in terms of their physical condition
* digest, swallow (''figurative as well as literal''), chew, cough, sneeze, sweat, blow nose, wheeze, pee, poop, freeze, fatten up, put on weight, shower, rinse off
* aroma, smell, taste, aftertaste, twinge
* sour, sweet, salty, rotten, bitter, putrid, fresh, crisp, juicy (''figurative as well as literal'')
* smooth, rough, sharp, dull, glossy, sleek, slick (''figurative as well as literal'')
* dry, parched, baked, moist, wet, damp, hot, boiling, sweltering, steamy, muggy, toasty, warm, lukewarm, cold, freezing, frigid, cool, refreshing, chilly
* touch, hold, clutch, grip, grasp, tickle, wiggle, pet, caress, stroke, squeeze, scratch, rub
* pain, ache, burning, itch, chafe, chafing, soreness, warmth, rumbling
* bliss, cloud nine, rest, relaxation
* uncomfortable, restless, fidgety
* comfortable, cozy, intimate, snug, soothing, homely
* enjoy, satisfy, sate, humor, indulge
* be hungry, be in the mood for, try, snack, have a bite, have enough, get full, eat, feed, feast, overeat, pig out
* get dirty, soil, clean up, mess up, care for, wash, clean off, cleanse
* dirt, mess, stain, wear and tear, filth, grime, grease
* sticky, gluey, gummy, pasty, runny, stringy, grimey, greasy
* pliable, flexible, elastic, malleable, supple, firm, hard, solid, stiff, steady
* reliable, tangible, stable

Real examples of Si-related statements

* It turned into this squishy mass.
* She looks yummy.
* You look the same as you always did.
* It's blazing hot!
* a flood of spring sunlight
* The heat is about to kill me, but I'm getting used to it.
* ... which you'll get tired of quickly
* get settled {''or'' get settled in}
* at least I feel comfortable in it
* Once life settles into an even rhythm I hope to...
* just enjoying life
* drenched in sweat
* The right side of my head is kind of tender.
* I was weak, sweating, and shaking
* pukey green color
* my body still thinks I need to sleep.
* Music today is like a big bowl of soup.
* I cannot stomach it.

Features of Si-speech
A preference for mentioning details and specifics: instead of saying "a newspaper" a Si-ego type will specify, "my copy of the May 18 edition of the Atlanta Times that I picked up last Tuesday from Lucky's supermarket". Si-egos are dynamic types and will express how something has happened rather than how something is. Their speech can have a flow-like quality to it where they are listing a sequence of events supplying plentiful sensory details and specifics to their stories as they remember them.


Extraverted Logic
Related words

* external sense of doing something: efficiency, effectiveness, reward, productivity
* movement, motion, speed, acceleration, displacement, rotation, process
* production, work, end product
* diligence, industriousness, industry, conscientiousness
* shrewd, sharp, proficient, capable, sensible, adept, venturous, confident, resourceful
* confused, unreliable, impractical, presumptuous, irreverent, contemptible
* direct, objective, dry statements lacking in personal qualifiers
* justified, unjustified, verify, support, refute, confirm, debunk
* reliable, confirmed, observed, unreliable, unconfirmed, hypothetical, unverified

Real examples of Te-related statements

* It provides both usefulness and a way to double-check...
* What are you trying to accomplish?
* You are just talking out of thin air.
* you might get more value for your efforts doing the following ...
* This sounds like a questionable venture. It does not justify the extra time/expenses.
* You'll be able to lift it easier if you move your hands further apart.
* To say that there is consensus is wildly misrepresentative.
* Get a clue.
* You are clearly losing exact definition regarding your own narrative, therefore I'll let you off the hook. Consider it a freebie.
* A man who both claims he doesn't follow any model of socionics and who is also unwilling to specify the model he is using is not worthy as a typology commentator because he is not willing to open himself up to peer review and to reach common conclusions and methods.

Features of Te-speech
All Te-ego types are dynamic, thus they will interconnect events one after another in speech. Thus their speech will have a flow-like quality to it. Content may be lacking in personal elements.


Introverted Logic
Related words

* logical statements of static estimation: "this is true" "this is not valid" "this is incorrect"
* therefore, consequently, thus, hence
* correlation, similarity, distinction, compatibility
* denote, define, mean, signify, designate, refer to, constitute, correspond to, pertain to
* satisfy (''i.e. a requirement''), comply with, match, cohesion
* establish (a rule or principle)
* counterpart, analogue, equivalent
* characteristic of, of a ____ nature
* according to, corresponding to, in view of, in terms of, apart from, given ___, equivalent to, tantamount to
* consider, call, deem, regard, associate ____ with

Real examples of Ti-related statements

* this is inconsistent
* correlates rather poorly/well
* This idea is incoherent.
* You are contradicting yourself...
* Now on that point, I'm going to have to take issue.
* I think this definition is more accurate...
* I can't hate her for this specific reason...
* Why did he do this? What was his reasoning?
* I need a reason to do anything.
* Do you understand what I'm trying to say?
* Only when absolutely necessary.
* Is it or isn't it?
* What does that refer to?
* What did you mean by this?

Features of Ti-speech
In debates and discussions, types that value Ti may inquire about definitions and criteria of their conversation partner. Since Ti is subjective, these types have a sense that other individuals may be using different operational sets of definitions, criteria, laws or premises.


Extraverted ethics
Related words

* personal qualifiers (moods, character traits) as could be observed by person's external behavior and manners with emphasis on qualifiers and actions that are externally harmonious: considerate, charismatic, pleasant, graceful, tactful, unrestrained, uninhibited, well-behaved, patient, understanding, easy-going, responsible, sincere, dishonest, quarrelsome, spiteful, egotistic, risible, sad, happy, moody, morose, brooding, sullen, shy, quiet, demure, vivacious, enthusiastic, excited, energized
* congruity, external harmony in relations
* bedevil, befuddle, discombobulate, dazzle, tantalize, torment
* howl, wail, bawl, roar
* honk, blare, beep, toot

Real Examples of Fe-related statements

* I'm sorry that your situation with John went so poorly
* I was shocked and overjoyed to hear of it!
* It bothers me when people choose ignorance, especially when it hurts others (Fe-Ti)
* God, why is everyone so focused on it!
* You aren't being helpful to our new recruits.
* He deserves anything she could say about him.
* I don't want to criticize her [in person] because I'm afraid of hurting her feelings.
* I *really* love that couch! (Fe-Si)
* He's usually really easy to cheer up.
* You were very rude towards the bus driver.

Features of Fe-speech
Use of illustrative adverbs and superlatives (e.g. ''absolutely amazing!'').


Introverted ethics
Related words

* personal qualifiers that are implicit, implied within the context of external behavior, actions, and manners
* sentiment
* relate to, sympathize with
* support (''i.e. supporting something'')
* community
* share
* to bring (people) together
* to open up (''figurative'')

Real Examples of Fi-related statements

* This bugs me.
* I just don't care for...
* I am truly grateful for...
* This kid gave his heart to us, he gave his heart to University of Florida (Fi-creative)
* It is just exciting to be around things that old (Fi-Si)
* I felt bad about the situation
* I just wanted to say how touched I was that...
* I have a lasting gift from you which some of my friends do not have: the knowledge that you are there when I need you, and the knowledge that you really care.
* I must have the most considerate son. How well he knows me!
* I did not realize how terribly alone and lonely she must have been.
* I sent that old monster off yesterday. (Fi-Ne referring to an appliance)
* What a terrible thought!
* Do you feel differently now?
* I feel so gloomy and depressed
* I am so much looking forward to spending some time with you.
* Wishing you were here...

[Aylen]

Alyen,

The way that you expressed yourself could also be interpreted as Ep-ish. I could see this if you are Ip and feel under pressure to write.

a.k.a. I/O

This is interesting to consider since I often feel pressured to write. :/

[Rebelondeck]

This is interesting to consider since I often feel pressured to write. :/

Alyen,

I agree that phrases don't always fit the person because of environmental effects. I do get impressions of peoples type from the way they write; it's like an impression one would perhaps get from looking at someone's face. I don't get the impression from stock phrases; it's more based on style combined with word choice. Like VI, I don't hold that much stock in it but it sometimes makes interesting conversation. I certainly wouldn't trust the instinct (if it can be called that) with people having limited command of English.

a.k.a. I/O

[Rebelondeck]

You have to state why you inherently want to crack it.

Jeremy8419,

I don't think "crack it" is the right phrase. I really think that a better Socionics model can be created using modern control theory. The problem is that many soft scientists don't seem that interested (proficient?) in engineering. Perhaps the new generation of people working in artificial intelligence will focus on aspects of Socionics. My only goal is to spark interest in a hard engineering approach toward specifying type, which I think is fixed in firmware; someone should study the concept with more rigor than I have. There is no gain for me other than to see a merger of hard and soft science - that would be really special.

a.k.a. I/O

[Jeremy8419]

Jeremy8419,

I don't think "crack it" is the right phrase. I really think that a better Socionics model can be created using modern control theory. The problem is that many soft scientists don't seem that interested (proficient?) in engineering. Perhaps the new generation of people working in artificial intelligence will focus on aspects of Socionics. My only goal is to spark interest in a hard engineering approach toward specifying type, which I think is fixed in firmware; someone should study the concept with more rigor than I have. There is no gain for me other than to see a merger of hard and soft science - that would be really special.

a.k.a. I/O

"Perhaps the new generation of people working in artificial intelligence will focus on aspects of Socionics."

If you read up on the history and scope of applications, this is one of the main uses of Socionics. The theoretical information processing models help them frame their thoughts.

[Jeremy8419]

A 4-Dimensional Fractal of the human mind.

[Aylen]

Alyen,

I agree that phrases don't always fit the person because of environmental effects. I do get impressions of peoples type from the way they write; it's like an impression one would perhaps get from looking at someone's face. I don't get the impression from stock phrases; it's more based on style combined with word choice. Like VI, I don't hold that much stock in it but it sometimes makes interesting conversation. I certainly wouldn't trust the instinct (if it can be called that) with people having limited command of English.

a.k.a. I/O

It is an interesting subject. I want to add that I have no memories before the age of 7 which is probably the point I started speaking English exclusively, other than some stolen moments alone with my mom. I can take on a memory, if that makes sense. If someone tells me a story of my 4 or 5 year old self AND shows me a picture (like a birthday party picture) I can somehow integrate that me, in the picture, into my memory as having happened but it still feels a bit foreign, like I am only pretending it was me for the sake of others. I also have that problem with various points in my life. An example: My EII sister tells me stories of a boyfriend I had when I was in my teens. She was dating one of his friends or maybe his brother, I forget, but I know she is telling me the truth. It happened. I just do not remember the guy at all. I have no pictures of him so I cannot integrate the experience even in a flat, surface level, sort of way.

I have tried to search my memory for anything related to those few months and they are gone. I can't see his face or anything. I used to think she and I had crossed dimensional realities and she was not the sister I grew up with and she had grown up with a different version of me, who lived in an alternate reality. She laughed at that but I am very influential as a big sister and I think I might have implanted an idea in her head. She started researching the subject of alternate realities soon after. lol

I am not sure what I think of my alternate reality theory now since I have been given medical (psychological) reasons for forgetting. I still can't help but think the doctors have it all wrong and I was right all along.

[Jeremy8419]

Edited out.

[Rebelondeck]

I want to add that I have no memories before the age of 7..............I can take on a memory........I can somehow integrate that me, in the picture, into my memory as having happened.....I just do not remember the guy at all. I have no pictures of him so I cannot integrate the experience.......

Aylen;

I think that you describe N-memory where the connections among facts are stored better than the facts themselves - the associative functioning of memory. I have experienced the same thing and because I no longer remember a specific detail but I do remember the connection, I'll unwittingly interpolate between facts filling in false memories. I find that S-memory tends to lose or never see the connections. I wrote about this subject some time ago but I forget where......

a.k.a. I/O