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Thread: Another Minde friend

  1. #1
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Default Another Minde friend

    - Very inventive, but in an understated natural way. As if it's the most normal thing in the world. (From stories told, his parents are inventive and don't always march to all of society's drums.)
    - Owns and drives a mini-van and appears to be a little embarrassed about it, but he's renovated the interior to be a cozy little space - taking out the middle and back seats, put down carpet, made a little couch that can fold out into a mattress. He stocks snacks and light sabers.
    - One time I said something about how that particular evening I was feeling exhausted and would probably sit in the corner of the group feeling / being emotionally numb. He said something like, "Oh, you mean how most males are." Not sure if that's how most males are, but he apparently identified with it.
    - A DIY king, basically. But, again, seems almost embarrassed about it.
    - We have a shared value of learning new information and can connect over it.
    - Smiles a lot and is at least superficially friendly to everyone. Often makes a point to say something and engage with each of the individuals around him.
    - Has said to me that he doesn't feel strong in creating and maintaining long-term friendships / relationships. Which at first seemed odd to me since he seems to have so many long-standing friendships. He's one of the oldest members of a group of friends that's been around for years. He seems to know everyone and everyone likes him.
    - Will do joking "lies", which I unfortunately fall for far too often.
    - Doesn't mind being goofy, but then seems to be slightly embarrassed.
    - Is definitely ok being unconventional. But in a personal sense; he never really seems to want or expect others to be so.
    - Claims to be frugal, and I haven't seen too many contradictions in that so far.
    - Doesn't have a career, per se. A self-described jack-of-all-trades. His current source of income is as a sort of one-man geek squad, helping people and companies fix their various technology-related issues, particularly as it relates to managing the physical devices and their setup.
    - Seems to enjoy being helpful, more than the average person.
    - Takes things to heart more than he shows. I kind of had to watch for it, but little things show it. For example, one time I asked his advice on a project I was thinking about. He said he'd check into a particular resource. Several days passed and I heard nothing from him, so I began to fear I'd been forgotten. I run into him a bit later and after talking a bit ask about that resource. He said it had fallen through. Then he says in passing how he noticed something funny in his sketches of my idea and goes on about that funny thing. What stood out to me in that moment, though, was that he certainly had not forgotten and had in fact been thinking a lot about it. (It helped a lot with my trust, too.)
    - Appears to have overall positive relationships with his family. Traditions, while not vital and unmovable, seem valued. Many of his stories involve family members including extended relatives.
    - Enjoys researching a topic and then teaching others about it. Gains satisfaction from the pupils' enjoyment of the process and absorption of the topic.
    - Flabbergasted at my relative lack of exploring-the-local-area experience.



    So far I'm thinking extroverted Ne/Si type.

    What else should I describe? What do you think so far?
    Last edited by Minde; 04-02-2016 at 10:12 PM. Reason: Removing an offensive sentence
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    typing without videointerview is rather useless
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    typing without videointerview is rather useless
    It's almost endearing how predictable you are.
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    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Hard for me to type, because I'm getting a lot of how you see him, and losing maybe a bit of his identity from the descriptions.

    I would guess some Ne-Si valuer.

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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mu4 View Post
    Hard for me to type, because I'm getting a lot of how you see him, and losing maybe a bit of his identity from the descriptions.

    I would guess some Ne-Si valuer.
    Argh, yes, you're right. I even wrote a note to myself as I put together my list that with this one it feels like I have a particularly skewed description. My head is not straight right now. Very insightful observation, Mu.

    *sigh* I'm still curious about his type. I need to figure out how to be more objective..
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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    A couple of "negatives" (as I perceive them):
    - Can show flashes of hidden impatience with others. So far this is usually when faced with people who are not curious enough or who slow him down. For example, he spoke with some disdain of a girl who refused to go into a snakes and insects exhibit. And he spoke with annoyance about someone on a hike who was overly slow. I get the impression he (successfully?) hid his feelings from those people.
    - He told a story of getting pulled over once (unfairly, in his opinion) and thinking to himself of all the inventive ways he could get back at the officer. Which he admitted was a terrible thing.
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    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    Contra's Avatar
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    Sounds a lot like my LSE roommate. Almost everything you said could apply to him. I'm actually not 100% sure he is LSE but it's the only thing that makes any sense because he is too friendly and Fe-ish to be SLI, despite seeming irrational. He is very friendly and makes small-talk and tries really hard to come off as this normal good/nice guy to outsiders, which I see as normalizing Fe. Extremely dependent on others and very sensitive which i guess i take to be 1D Fi so not IEE. Also, to add to this he is very child like in his emotion and has these white-knight caretaking tendencies. He gets embarrased over messiness. He is a jack of all trades and good with mechanical tasks. Into exploring the local area and fills his time with hobbies and activities. He is a bit judgmental (actually very judgment but you wouldn't know it when you first meet him). He definitely doesn't seem to be Alpha. I take him to be a sort of ethical LSE.
    Last edited by Contra; 04-02-2016 at 05:20 AM.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Contra View Post
    Sounds a lot like my LSE roommate. Almost everything you said could apply to him. I'm actually not 100% sure he is LSE but it's the only thing that makes any sense because he is too friendly and Fe-ish to be SLI, despite seeming irrational. He is very friendly and makes small-talk and tries really hard to come off as this normal good/nice guy to outsiders, which I see as normalizing Fe. Extremely dependent on others and very sensitive which i guess i take to be 1D Fi so not IEE. Also, to add to this he is very child like in his emotion and has these white-knight caretaking tendencies. He gets embarrased over messiness. He is a jack of all trades and good with mechanical tasks. Into exploring the local area and fills his time with hobbies and activities. He is a bit judgmental (actually very judgment but you wouldn't know it when you first meet him). He definitely doesn't seem to be Alpha. I take him to be a sort of ethical LSE.
    LSE are proud of what they have. I don't think they would be embarrassed

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    darya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    I might share photos privately with those of you who I consider decent humans.
    I was thinking of replying, but I'm not sure if I'm in decent human category. High horse much

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willyum Take4 View Post
    If you want me to remove quotes, just let me know.

    From points above, I also lean towards extroverted Ne/Si. So let's start there, on the parts/perceptions we agree with. Now, personally, from the parts you mentioned about DIY, rearranging the back-seat of the mini-van, he seems to be very comfortable and confident in the physical environment and with hands-on things, so it makes me think generally sensing over intuitive - I can't imagine an IEE or ILE that comfortable rearranging the physical environment. That leaves only 2 other types that fit extroverted/sensor/ Ne/Si-valuing, being ESE and LSE. He seems much more LSE to me - ESEs aren't as naturally good at the DIY things. In addition, your friend generally not showing how much he cares about things or takes things to heart seems Fe-devaluing.



    The "hidden impatience" you described with your examples is clear Ni-PoLR in my opinion, feeling time pressure. Both ESEs and LSEs have a tendency to go in super-charged hyper-turbo mode sometimes because we know that distractions can get us off of our plans --- but our inability to understand time, or how little things don't really get in the way of big-picture plans, leads to the impatience with other people and a perception from others sometimes that we are cruel or uncaring.

    The 2nd example about thinking of different ways to 'get even' seems much more Te / objective logic to me. ESEs tend to manage our emotions or put emotional pressure on others when they feel threatened, while LSEs tend to think more along the lines of this guy for actual "things" they can do to get even, along the same lines that you mentioned this guy is good at DIY stuff and seems to be better at mastering the physical environment with different direct actions he can take.

    So ultimately I say LSE. Hope this helps.
    ESE would not be embarrassed either because they make something simple their home THEIR home.

  11. #11
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    I was thinking of replying, but I'm not sure if I'm in decent human category. High horse much
    I'm sorry, you're right, that was condescending, wasn't it. I'll edit it out.

    I would appreciate your input, but I realize you might be put off now. Thanks.
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    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  12. #12
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Contra View Post
    Sounds a lot like my LSE roommate. Almost everything you said could apply to him. I'm actually not 100% sure he is LSE but it's the only thing that makes any sense because he is too friendly and Fe-ish to be SLI, despite seeming irrational. He is very friendly and makes small-talk and tries really hard to come off as this normal good/nice guy to outsiders, which I see as normalizing Fe. Extremely dependent on others and very sensitive which i guess i take to be 1D Fi so not IEE. Also, to add to this he is very child like in his emotion and has these white-knight caretaking tendencies. He gets embarrased over messiness. He is a jack of all trades and good with mechanical tasks. Into exploring the local area and fills his time with hobbies and activities. He is a bit judgmental (actually very judgment but you wouldn't know it when you first meet him). He definitely doesn't seem to be Alpha. I take him to be a sort of ethical LSE.
    I know several people that I fairly confidently type as LSE and, at least superficially, he doesn't really match up with them. He does sound like your roommate, except I don't know if he's super dependent on others or having childlike emotions. But, yeah, one of those "you aren't fitting into one of my predetermined categories, darn it!" people.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  13. #13
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willyum Take4 View Post
    If you want me to remove quotes, just let me know.
    I might at some point, yes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Willyum Take4 View Post
    Now, personally, from the parts you mentioned about DIY, rearranging the back-seat of the mini-van, he seems to be very comfortable and confident in the physical environment and with hands-on things, so it makes me think generally sensing over intuitive - I can't imagine an IEE or ILE that comfortable rearranging the physical environment. That leaves only 2 other types that fit extroverted/sensor/ Ne/Si-valuing, being ESE and LSE. He seems much more LSE to me - ESEs aren't as naturally good at the DIY things. In addition, your friend generally not showing how much he cares about things or takes things to heart seems Fe-devaluing.
    But what if it's Fe-valuing in that he doesn't want to offend the group atmosphere? LSEs, in my experience, don't care so much about rocking the emotional atmosphere boat if they're upset by something. Unless it's with people they care about, then they're more careful. Or if they're actively wanting to be a part of a group because they're lacking Fi (and the group seems a possible place in their minds to get it). Also, I disagree that ESEs can't be good at DIY.

    Not that I'm arguing for ESE. Just throwing things out there.



    Quote Originally Posted by Willyum Take4 View Post
    The "hidden impatience" you described with your examples is clear Ni-PoLR in my opinion, feeling time pressure. Both ESEs and LSEs have a tendency to go in super-charged hyper-turbo mode sometimes because we know that distractions can get us off of our plans --- but our inability to understand time, or how little things don't really get in the way of big-picture plans, leads to the impatience with other people and a perception from others sometimes that we are cruel or uncaring.
    I know a number of people who would get annoyed at slow fellow hikers (in fact it's what makes me self-conscious about hiking in groups - I'm a slow hiker and I hate annoying people like that). Hiding the annoyance is the "polite" thing to do. Part of what struck me about his reaction, though, is this certain sort of personal dislike and the statement that he'd never want to go hiking with that slow person again. It was a sort of "cutting of the Fi line" thing, if that makes sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by Willyum Take4 View Post
    The 2nd example about thinking of different ways to 'get even' seems much more Te / objective logic to me. ESEs tend to manage our emotions or put emotional pressure on others when they feel threatened, while LSEs tend to think more along the lines of this guy for actual "things" they can do to get even, along the same lines that you mentioned this guy is good at DIY stuff and seems to be better at mastering the physical environment with different direct actions he can take.
    Well, I doubt he expressed his anger openly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Willyum Take4 View Post
    So ultimately I say LSE. Hope this helps.
    I appreciate the analysis, thanks!


    Quote Originally Posted by Willyum Take4 View Post
    Haha Beta/Delta communication gap? I think she just meant she would share photos with people she's personally close with more. I don't think she really meant that the people she's not close with, she doesn't consider them 'decent people' overall or judges them as less than her. I'm sure she would appreciate more feedback and thoughts about the type of her friend for this thread, even if she won't share their photo with everyone. Correct me if I'm wrong @Minde
    As far as I can tell 95%+ people on this forum I'd trust with personal stuff, to one degree or another. Darya definitely falls into that group. There are certain others that I don't trust, though, which is why I included the caveat. But she was right in that it really did more harm than good to say it like that.

    And, yes, you're right about how I'm more comfortable with people I actually know and have a connection with - because that means I can know more for sure if they're trustworthy.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  14. #14
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    ...
    I know a number of people who would get annoyed at slow fellow hikers (in fact it's what makes me self-conscious about hiking in groups - I'm a slow hiker and I hate annoying people like that). Hiding the annoyance is the "polite" thing to do. Part of what struck me about his reaction, though, is this certain sort of personal dislike and the statement that he'd never want to go hiking with that slow person again. It was a sort of "cutting of the Fi line" thing, if that makes sense....
    Minde, I have not read through this thread yet because when I do I want to do it carefully, And I need to take a break from this reading and typing, for several days actually, however long it takes to get on track. But I have been curious about your thread and saw this, and just had to comment!

    This reminds me of a lovely, beautiful EII suite-mate in college. She had a long-term I believe LSE boyfriend. They were a curiosity as they were a very, very close and harmonious, contently-attached couple and attracted-to-each-other couple, due to her Catholic views, no sleepovers, and any little kisses between them was something private no one saw. I remember people in the dorm, people she was not friends with - outright bolding asking her - "AREN'T you sleeping with him?!?". You can imagine how you would take a stranger demanding you explain your private business and plans. She would blanche, but not answer. And I didn't dare ask her abut what was clearly her business. But without saying so, it was clear she/they wanted to wait for that, til after graduation and the engagement/wedding then soon to follow, however unusual that is in this day and age.

    Her boyfriend invited a suite-mate and I on for a rappelling adventure one day, on Canadian cliffs above Niagara Falls. It was a bit of a hike through he woods to the rapelling spot; LSE led the way and the other suitemate and I had no trouble keeping up with his vigorous, determined pace. But EII girlfriend lagged well behind, moving steadily, but at her own pace, a familiar slow one. At one point LSE turned around, and across the growing distance expressed his impatience (after all, the other two of us kept up fine, he must have thought) and made some annoyed reference to her lagging. EII answered just as loudly, "Hey, you go your pace and I go mine. Remember?" She was not troubled by his annoyance, she made her response, and that was that, she continued on with her content pace. Later I expressed to her my admiration for this, as, people-pleaser that I am/was, I would push myself to be pleasing. She said her grandfather told her that, and I got the impression he had really given her confidence that who she was just as she was was okay. And, its the truth.

    I feel particularly sure he is LSE, an engineering student there at college (like my LSE brother) and the way he was on the hike reminds me of how my LSE brother would be, pretty much exactly. A LSE would in fact be a strident, efficient hiker, and at least one of the EIIs I know does take a particularly slow pace in life, something I chalk up to a Carribean way, but she says her elementary principal called her "Methusulah", a funny thing to call a cute little girl. EII just does not take on activity to the intense degree LSE does, as far as I can tell. There is opposite-ness there, just like, I often think, how Lordwilling my SLE son will connect someday with a IEI wife - he likes to go out and do, and socialize, and IEI is a homebody, generally. But, they will work it out. Duals are opposite in a lot of ways. Apparently this LSE/EII Dual couple, in college, having dated four years and become best friends, had learned to deal with each others occasionally clashing approach-to-life, so that when LSE criticized her, it was no problem for her to calmly tell him how it was - it did not upset her.

    So that's how you can be with your friend, if he turns out to be LSE. Calmly tell him how it is. (He can take it!)

    Hope that story was helpful. Gotta go now!
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
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  15. #15
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Minde, I have not read through this thread yet because when I do I want to do it carefully, And I need to take a break from this reading and typing, for several days actually, however long it takes to get on track. But I have been curious about your thread and saw this, and just had to comment!

    This reminds me of a lovely, beautiful EII suite-mate in college. She had a long-term I believe LSE boyfriend. They were a curiosity as they were a very, very close and harmonious, contently-attached couple and attracted-to-each-other couple, due to her Catholic views, no sleepovers, and any little kisses between them was something private no one saw. I remember people in the dorm, people she was not friends with - outright bolding asking her - "AREN'T you sleeping with him?!?". You can imagine how you would take a stranger demanding you explain your private business and plans. She would blanche, but not answer. And I didn't dare ask her abut what was clearly her business. But without saying so, it was clear she/they wanted to wait for that, til after graduation and the engagement/wedding then soon to follow, however unusual that is in this day and age.

    Her boyfriend invited a suite-mate and I on for a rappelling adventure one day, on Canadian cliffs above Niagara Falls. It was a bit of a hike through he woods to the rapelling spot; LSE led the way and the other suitemate and I had no trouble keeping up with his vigorous, determined pace. But EII girlfriend lagged well behind, moving steadily, but at her own pace, a familiar slow one. At one point LSE turned around, and across the growing distance expressed his impatience (after all, the other two of us kept up fine, he must have thought) and made some annoyed reference to her lagging. EII answered just as loudly, "Hey, you go your pace and I go mine. Remember?" She was not troubled by his annoyance, she made her response, and that was that, she continued on with her content pace. Later I expressed to her my admiration for this, as, people-pleaser that I am/was, I would push myself to be pleasing. She said her grandfather told her that, and I got the impression he had really given her confidence that who she was just as she was was okay. And, its the truth.

    I feel particularly sure he is LSE, an engineering student there at college (like my LSE brother) and the way he was on the hike reminds me of how my LSE brother would be, pretty much exactly. A LSE would in fact be a strident, efficient hiker, and at least one of the EIIs I know does take a particularly slow pace in life, something I chalk up to a Carribean way, but she says her elementary principal called her "Methusulah", a funny thing to call a cute little girl. EII just does not take on activity to the intense degree LSE does, as far as I can tell. There is opposite-ness there, just like, I often think, how Lordwilling my SLE son will connect someday with a IEI wife - he likes to go out and do, and socialize, and IEI is a homebody, generally. But, they will work it out. Duals are opposite in a lot of ways. Apparently this LSE/EII Dual couple, in college, having dated four years and become best friends, had learned to deal with each others occasionally clashing approach-to-life, so that when LSE criticized her, it was no problem for her to calmly tell him how it was - it did not upset her.

    So that's how you can be with your friend, if he turns out to be LSE. Calmly tell him how it is. (He can take it!)

    Hope that story was helpful. Gotta go now!
    Aw, thank you, Eliza I appreciate how you try so much to be encouraging.

    I've behaved similarly to your EII roommate on some hiking excursions, saying "Go ahead without me; I'll be fine back here," though it's usually with friends or family that I know well, so they already know what to expect of my pace. My IEE sister usually offers to stay back with me. She's so patient and non-demanding and we have fun together.

    I do in general need to remember to feel ok expressing "my true self" - my real opinions and likes and dislikes. Thank you for that reminder. I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts!
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  16. #16
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    - Is very neat and orderly and clean. He sometimes shows flashes of annoyance at people (or the thought of people) messing with his personal space, particularly dirtying it or breaking things.
    - Did I mention inventive and good with hands-on things? Recently a friend asked him to fix her car's headlight, which wasn't working. He said he'd never fixed a headlight and didn't know much about cars but he'd take a look. He fiddled around, pulled out the bulb with the wiring, commented "The last guy did this kind of funky," changed the bulb, fiddled around to put it back, "Oh, that's why he did it like that," then went to his car to get a plastic fork with which he did some wedging and propping that'd keep the light in place until a mechanic with more tools could do it more securely. To my EII self, the whole thing appeared to be magic. He later semi-jokingly bemoaned the loss of that "good fork" that he'll now have to replace. "Fortunately, I do have a few more at home."
    - Appears to be prepared for all sorts of things, and in comfort-enhancing ways. On one psuedo-hike activity he brought iced tea in his camelbak. See also: keeping utensils handy in his car. This, however, can backfire in that he ends up packing too much and regrets the weight or hassle of the excess.
    - The more I talk with him, the more opinionated he reveals himself to be. He has some pretty particular, concrete likes and dislikes, especially as it relates to how it impacts himself. Like in terms of tastes and processes.
    - He's also health-conscious, and takes care of his body, though he doesn't seem to take it to any extremes. He appears to be the most healthy of his immediate family.
    - Back on the hiking thing, while friends have described him as a very good hiker he says he doesn't actually enjoy it much and will only want to go if there's something worthwhile at the destination.

    I'm going to venture into more Minde-is-speculating land again: As I learn more about him, I think he used to be shyer when he was younger. He described himself as often being involved in activities in the background, e.g. sound technician for school performances. However nowadays he doesn't seem to have many hesitations striking up (superficial level) conversations with anyone he runs into, though he's more likely to talk with someone who either is interesting or has something he could use.


    Someone very helpful suggested E7 for him.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  17. #17
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    ...I do in general need to remember to feel ok expressing "my true self" - my real opinions and likes and dislikes. Thank you for that reminder. I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts!
    Yes, it helps a lot, like my EII suitemate, to have had someone truly loving in her life, like her grandfather, who even affirmed her just as she is, and probably gave her the words to say - "I go my way and you go yours". He gave her confidence that her way is okay. We need to be as kind to ourselves as we would be to another. In fact we are kinder to others if we are kind to ourselves. When I said she "yelled" to her boyfriend above, that was so she could be heard over the distance, but her voice was calm; she was not perturbed, she was just stating a fact, which is why I was admirably struck by it.

    I noticed my LSE brother (since divorce) has dated some that can keep up with him in his vigorously-paced long-distance biking/hiking/skiing, but they are not EIIs, and these sporting relationships, while seeming to have a possible spark, have not lasted. And from what you say, you would be more like my EII friend. So just remeber, your LSE dual needs a dual for a partner, not a sporting buddy to keep up with him.

    I'l read more later, I have a busy week...
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  18. #18
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    - [1]... (From stories told, his parents are inventive and don't always march to all of society's drums.)...
    [2]- Owns and drives a mini-van and appears to be a little embarrassed about it, but he's renovated the interior to be a cozy little space - taking out the middle and back seats, put down carpet, made a little couch that can fold out into a mattress. He stocks snacks and light sabers.
    [3] - One time I said something about how that particular evening I was feeling exhausted and would probably sit in the corner of the group feeling / being emotionally numb. He said something like, "Oh, you mean how most males are." Not sure if that's how most males are, but he apparently identified with it.
    [4]- A DIY king, basically. But, again, seems almost embarrassed about it.
    [5]- We have a shared value of learning new information and can connect over it...

    [6] ... he seems to have so many long-standing friendships. He's one of the oldest members of a group of friends that's been around for years. He seems to know everyone and everyone likes him.
    [7]- Will do joking "lies", which I unfortunately fall for far too often.
    [8] - Doesn't mind being goofy, but then seems to be slightly embarrassed.

    [9]- Claims to be frugal, and I haven't seen too many contradictions in that so far.
    [10]- Doesn't have a career, per se. A self-described jack-of-all-trades. His current source of income is as a sort of one-man geek squad, helping people and companies fix their various technology-related issues, particularly as it relates to managing the physical devices and their setup.
    [11]- Seems to enjoy being helpful, more than the average person.
    - Takes things to heart more than he shows. I kind of had to watch for it, but little things show it. For example, one time I asked his advice on a project I was thinking about. He said he'd check into a particular resource. Several days passed and I heard nothing from him, so I began to fear I'd been forgotten. I run into him a bit later and after talking a bit ask about that resource. He said it had fallen through. Then he says in passing how he noticed something funny in his sketches of my idea and goes on about that funny thing. What stood out to me in that moment, though, was that he certainly had not forgotten and had in fact been thinking a lot about it. (It helped a lot with my trust, too.)
    [12]- Appears to have overall positive relationships with his family. Traditions, while not vital and unmovable, seem valued. Many of his stories involve family members including extended relatives.

    ..
    I haven't typed him but my strongest impression is of my ESE-ex. Particularly, from the above, which I numbered, these things relate to that ESE unless noted :

    1. - Not particularly inventive but did tell stories about his family.
    2. - adept at making himself a home anywhere, well stocked with necessities but no fancy. And I don't see a LSE into a light saber, no way. What is the practical use of that? LSEs don't have emotional attachment to objects really; its practical value they hold higher. Also, LSE are not embarrassed about what they do (or what you do) under most circumstances. They will tell you if you did something wrong, unpractical, wasteful, not enough, too little, etc., but not something embarassing.
    3. - Possibly a Fe statement.
    4. - LSE is DIY but just does it and is BOTH not embarrassed OR apologetic about it. Making a value/feeling judgment about his own normal activities says Fe or Fi not Te or Ti, to me.
    5. - FWIW, ESEs are adept at finding shared values or interests or shared anything with their interlocutors.
    [took out the part here that sounds like a lot of types]
    6. - sounds exactly like my ESE ex
    7. - I don't know if this is ESE humor of not, but it happens this is exactly how my ESE joked (he joked a lot) and also I fell for it all the time. He would say a thing perfectly seriously.
    8. - Also like my ESE ex. My LSE brother not like this. Again, rarely apologetic. Just is who he is.
    [took out what not related to my ESE ex]
    9. - ESE ex and ESE friends all frugal noticeably but can all splurge on their favorites. For two, its travel far and wide, for my ex, his amazing workshop and vacations. Otherwise - all notably frugal.
    10 - This is where he reminds me of a longtime EII friend's SEE husband. The jack of all trades, and DIY (except when getting too ADHD then he starts a ton of DIY things at once leaving them unfinished) but no career, also, a lot of education, not applied. LSE instead would be involved in a career, or two, and lots of other busyness and interesting hobbies. I say this of my LSE brother and my LSE niece and my LSE friend.
    11. - Not my LSE brother at all (who taught his kids to be as FIERCELY independent as he, but IMO he should have HELPED them more (but they are doing fine, very well, so) also same with those other two LSEs. And they WILL help if asked specifically, but not because they love helping, and they won't ask, "Is there anything else I can do?" like they were eager to help or anything... The type I have seen love to help the most is SEI, but I have seen very helpful ESEs too. Yes, even my ex - helpful to everyone but NOT me particularly (except when were were dating) but this was NOT due to type but disorder, which any type can have.
    12. - EXTREMELY notable in my ex (with his family of origin, whom he always talked about an idealized, which me when dating but not immediately after we married or ever again, but always the rest of his family or origin all his life and still bragged how the "Smiths" were the best, #1]. Also both those ESE friends, one in particular.
    [last things I did not find too particular to type]

    If I see more I will post more, or edit this and add to it.
    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 04-07-2016 at 04:53 AM.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  19. #19
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Hi @Contra, I see ESE in your roommate. I put why in green in your quote here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Contra View Post
    Sounds a lot like my LSE roommate. Almost everything you said could apply to him. I'm actually not 100% sure he is LSE but it's the only thing that makes any sense because he is too friendly and Fe-ish.... He is very friendly and makes small-talk and tries really hard to come off as this normal good/nice guy to outsiders, which I see as normalizing Fe.[I agree] ...has these white-knight caretaking tendencies.[ah, caregiver] He gets embarrassed over messiness.[LSEs rarely show embarrassment over their own doings, and this is more an ethical thing than a thinking thing] He is a jack of all trades and good with mechanical tasks.[so was my exESE, not expert though, and not as good as my SLI husband or my L:SE brother. Thinking for ESE its because of Sensing vs. INtuitive] Into exploring the local area and fills his time with hobbies and activities. [ESEs also always busy - they fill all their time, even over-book it] He is a bit judgmental (actually very judgment but you wouldn't know it when you first meet him).[sounds just my EX and other ESEs. You don't see it til you know them a bit] He definitely doesn't seem to be Alpha.[why?] I take him to be a sort of ethical LSE.
    I really, really get ESE from this!
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  20. #20
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    A couple of "negatives" (as I perceive them):
    - Can show flashes of hidden impatience with others. So far this is usually when faced with people who are not curious enough or who slow him down. For example, he spoke with some disdain of a girl who refused to go into a snakes and insects exhibit. And he spoke with annoyance about someone on a hike who was overly slow. I get the impression he (successfully?) hid his feelings from those people.
    - He told a story of getting pulled over once (unfairly, in his opinion) and thinking to himself of all the inventive ways he could get back at the officer. Which he admitted was a terrible thing.
    I like how Willyum described this as being ESE and LSE. Well done. My experience with this impatience is especially yes, with my ESE ex, but also I have seen it in all the ESE girlfriends I know at times, which surprised me, because they are more generous than me socially, usually, but I wouldn't display this sort of impatience, except on some rarest occasion***, if ever, which is why I noticed. The LSEs too but in a different way. (The ESEs are more dramatic in their impatience when expressing it, though its short-lived.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    LSE are proud of what they have. I don't think they would be embarrassed
    I agree, they would NOT be embarrassed. That's a value judgment that LSEs just don't make about something like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Willyum Take4 View Post
    Now, personally, from the parts you mentioned about DIY, rearranging the back-seat of the mini-van, he seems to be very comfortable and confident in the physical environment and with hands-on things, so it makes me think generally sensing over intuitive...That leaves only 2 other types that fit extroverted/sensor/ Ne/Si-valuing, being ESE and LSE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Willyum Take4 View Post
    The "hidden impatience" you described with your examples is clear Ni-PoLR in my opinion, feeling time pressure. Both ESEs and LSEs have a tendency to go in super-charged hyper-turbo mode sometimes because we know that distractions can get us off of our plans --- but our inability to understand time, or how little things don't really get in the way of big-picture plans, leads to the impatience with other people and a perception from others sometimes that we are cruel or uncaring.

    The 2nd example about thinking of different ways to 'get even' seems much more Te / objective logic to me. ESEs tend to manage our emotions or put emotional pressure on others when they feel threatened, while LSEs tend to think more along the lines of this guy for actual "things" they can do to get even, along the same lines that you mentioned this guy is good at DIY stuff and seems to be better at mastering the physical environment with different direct actions he can take.

    So ultimately I say LSE. Hope this helps.
    I agree with all this Wm says except for his final conclusion on LSE! Three ESE girlfriends fit all this except the DIY, though, all 3 are better at DIY than me. My ESE was basically competent at this (thought not as good as SLI or LSE) and in my ESE-ex's case, e, his Dad had LITTLE to offer him, but his friends' Dad from youth, was very DIY AND taught his sons well in this, and my ex, chipped in and learned. So my ex considered this guy "like" a Dad to him, and that he was a model for the kind of guy he wanted to be. So he had the inspiration to make the DIY effort and not be like his own Dad, who didn't fix ANYTHING. (What a house of disrepair. The next owner tore down this grand-in-its-day house, after ex's family of 10+ left it). Also, I think a lot of guys work at DIY as a guy-thing to do... in the same way a women would learn to bake/cook.

    [@Willyum Take4, One reason you say LSE not ESE is the DIY thing, and I wonder, if you, now tying ESE again -- possibly devalue your won DIY ability because, possibly (only you can say), you have DIYers in your life who are exceptionally good, making you devalue yourself in this area by comparison??]

    ___________
    ***correction: I just saw my denial and need to correct it. I do show an impatience, and like these ESE girlfriends, I also show it rarely. But the distinct difference between my ESE girlfriends in me is when I show my impatience, its over a moral trespass or an untruth - some principle has been violated (that I deem should be obvious) and that causes the impatience in me.
    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 04-07-2016 at 04:51 AM.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  21. #21
    UDP's Avatar
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    When you have a negative personal opinion or sentiment about something, how does he react?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    You describe the things that he does. Listen to the things he says.

    Next time ask him if he trusts people easily.

    So far seems more SEE from his liking to research things.

  23. #23
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    When you have a negative personal opinion or sentiment about something, how does he react?
    Usually an "Oh, hm" sort of reaction. Or if it's something he likes, sometimes an, "Oh, why not?" requesting more information and reasons from me. So far I haven't felt him trying to pressure me away from an opinion or even really require an airtight reason. In fact, sometimes it's like he simply takes it and incorporates it into how he interacts with me.

    Here's a hopefully helpful albeit rather basic example: He knows I don't enjoy very spicy foods and he even knows approximately my cutoff point for spiciness. One time we all were at a restaurant and I said I was planning on getting a particular dish, one that was new to me. He interrupted a small-talk conversation I was having with someone else and said, "Have you had [ingredient] before?" I said, "No." He kind of made a face so I said, "Why?" He kept making the face and looked to be searching for words so I guessed, "Is it spicy?" He replied, "Yes, you might not like it." I thanked him and chose something else. Someone else got something with the same ingredient and let me have a taste; it wasn't over-the-top spicy but I was glad to not have it as my whole meal.

    So that's what I consider one reaction to a negative opinion of mine. It's like he filed my preference away as practically applicable fact, and then felt concern that I stay unbothered by whatever it was that I didn't like to the point where he'd insert himself into the situation to prevent it.

    Granted, that's something sensing-based. As far as moral opinions or boundaries that I don't feel like crossing, so far he seems to have a same sort of "taking into account" approach.

    For example, he likes to explore and sometimes that (apparently) involves going through "do not enter" doors or through boundaries that many would consider "do not cross" requests. I, on the other hand, have almost always been a rule-following individual since childhood. So unless I have a compelling, even moral reason to flout others' boundaries, I usually stick to what I "should" be doing. The exception might be if I sense that the rules in a particular context are flexible anyway, e.g. driving the speed of traffic instead of strictly the posted limits. For me, it's respecting others' wishes, which is something I would like done for myself.

    Anyway, that's a difference between us, and he seems to treat that preference of mine (and those of others) similarly to the food one. He'll suggest, say, "Let's see what's over here" or "Do you want to check this out?" but when I've hesitated he doesn't push and then seems to assume that henceforth we'll avoid whatever it was. (He doesn't know me well enough to know that sometimes I just need to ruminate on an idea for awhile, then be comfortable with trying it.)
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  24. #24
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Next time ask him if he trusts people easily.
    I haven't asked yet. I will.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  25. #25
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Next time ask him if he trusts people easily.
    Ok, I finally had a chance to interject this question into a conversation. A couple other people answered first: One guy said that he bases trust off of who he knows, like if a friend says this person is trustworthy he's more likely to trust them himself. Another said that he'd like to trust people, but he always has in the back of his mind that they could be bad. The girl next to me said she trusts people when she sees their character, which happens with quality time.

    Then this particular friend said that he feels he trusts people fairly easily. "I think you can feel it out. [...] I'm pretty trusting. [...] I do have a pretty good bologna sensor."
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  26. #26
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Yesterday I drove some friends, including him, to a dinner place. Mid-conversation, he says, "You might want to check your steering fluid."

    I say, "What?"

    "It sounds like your steering fluid is low. Hear when it makes that sound as you turn?"

    "Ummm... No, I don't hear it. How do you check the steering fluid?"

    "I can show you later."

    Later it's too dark, so he says to ask my mechanic to check the fluid level when I take it in for an oil change. Then, after a pause and with a half smile, he asks, "How long... do you wait for it to make sounds before you say, 'Oh, I should do something about this'? Do you wait until it gets so loud you can't ignore it anymore?" I hadn't noticed any unusual sounds plus I don't often notice those sorts of things anyway, and told him as much. He said something like, "Hm, well, maybe it always makes that sound and I'm wrong. But it's easy enough to check." Then he launches into a story, which appeared to amuse him greatly, about a YouTube video he saw once where someone's brakes were worn down to a ridiculous level.

    Now I feel like a bad car mom, lol.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  27. #27
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Most of you might be familiar with this, but sometimes in group settings (or, more rarely, even in one-on-one settings) you can have two or more levels of conversation going on at once - the spoken, obvious one and one that's within phrases, wording, and shared expressions / eye contact. IME, this happens mainly with other intuitives, but sometimes briefly with sensors that I know well. My IEE sister and I do this best (we can have whole hidden conversations). This is also more likely to happen with Alphas and Deltas, as a second level of conversation is sometimes more joking. Not that Betas and Gammas don't joke, but their second levels seem to be either more about pathos or assassination--or at least it feels like that to me, lol--and I'm not as much into that.

    My ESE best friend will catch / send things sometimes, but then she plays it up to the point where it stops being subtle.

    Do any of you relate to this / know what I'm talking about?

    One thing that throws me off from XSE for this guy is that I've found myself able to do that second level convo with him. I don't know him super well yet so it's still limited, but it can still happen fairly easily every so often compared to others. For example, our mutual (most likely) ESI friend is very smart in her own ways but will miss conversational subtleties sometimes. Puns, brief references to other conversations or ideas, etc. (Granted, I miss my own swath of conversational elements, so I'm not putting her down at all.)
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  28. #28
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    I can relate a bit to what you wrote above and experience has led me to think that more people can engage in this when the person in the spotlight is being contradictory by displaying thoughts or behaviour to others which are a bit faulty compared to the thruth/reality.
    Being able to have another with whom you can regularly interact this way with is a real positive thing in life as it brings a fast forming bond which includes humour and of course a need to not verbalise everything.
    Last edited by Shay; 04-26-2016 at 01:18 AM.

  29. #29
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayden View Post
    I can relate a bit to what you wrote above and experience has led me to think that more people can engage in this when the person in the spotlight is being contradictory by displaying thoughts or behaviour to others which are a bit faulty compared to the thruth/reality.
    That's definitely one scenario, yes. Often my sister and I will "talk" about how we're feeling about something or decide to do something together.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shayden View Post
    Being able to have another with whom you can regularly interact this way with is a real positive thing in life as it brings a fast forming bond which includes humour and of course a need to not verbalise everything.
    Yes, it can help foster person-to-person connections. Though I try to be careful that it doesn't get too blatant or over-the-top, so others don't feel excluded or hurt. That does the opposite of what I want!
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    UDP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Most of you might be familiar with this, but sometimes in group settings (or, more rarely, even in one-on-one settings) you can have two or more levels of conversation going on at once - the spoken, obvious one and one that's within phrases, wording, and shared expressions / eye contact. IME, this happens mainly with other intuitives, but sometimes briefly with sensors that I know well. My IEE sister and I do this best (we can have whole hidden conversations). This is also more likely to happen with Alphas and Deltas, as a second level of conversation is sometimes more joking. Not that Betas and Gammas don't joke, but their second levels seem to be either more about pathos or assassination--or at least it feels like that to me, lol--and I'm not as much into that.
    Ha....... yeah............................... yeah.

    Do any of you relate to this / know what I'm talking about?

    One thing that throws me off from XSE for this guy is that I've found myself able to do that second level convo with him. I don't know him super well yet so it's still limited, but it can still happen fairly easily every so often compared to others. For example, our mutual (most likely) ESI friend is very smart in her own ways but will miss conversational subtleties sometimes. Puns, brief references to other conversations or ideas, etc. (Granted, I miss my own swath of conversational elements, so I'm not putting her down at all.)
    I think it's mostly outside of socionics but I hadn't consider quadratic implications before.
    For certain things, deltas are way better.

    Ne POLRs, much much less so than "average", ime. Delta NFs basically at the top, surprise. It's probably a good sign for you and this XSE person.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Ok, I finally had a chance to interject this question into a conversation. A couple other people answered first: One guy said that he bases trust off of who he knows, like if a friend says this person is trustworthy he's more likely to trust them himself.
    This seems more like an Fe valued.


    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Another said that he'd like to trust people, but he always has in the back of his mind that they could be bad.
    negativistic type

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    The girl next to me said she trusts people when she sees their character, which happens with quality time.
    Negativist probably

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Then this particular friend said that he feels he trusts people fairly easily. "I think you can feel it out. [...] I'm pretty trusting. [...] I do have a pretty good bologna sensor."
    Positivist but also a sensory type? There's a slight chance of Negativist because he could be LSE who comes from a background where he hasn't been used and taken advantage of thus making him trusting. Norm is that LSE don't trust people

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Yesterday I drove some friends, including him, to a dinner place. Mid-conversation, he says, "You might want to check your steering fluid."

    I say, "What?"

    "It sounds like your steering fluid is low. Hear when it makes that sound as you turn?"

    "Ummm... No, I don't hear it. How do you check the steering fluid?"

    "I can show you later."

    Later it's too dark, so he says to ask my mechanic to check the fluid level when I take it in for an oil change. Then, after a pause and with a half smile, he asks, "How long... do you wait for it to make sounds before you say, 'Oh, I should do something about this'? Do you wait until it gets so loud you can't ignore it anymore?" I hadn't noticed any unusual sounds plus I don't often notice those sorts of things anyway, and told him as much. He said something like, "Hm, well, maybe it always makes that sound and I'm wrong. But it's easy enough to check." Then he launches into a story, which appeared to amuse him greatly, about a YouTube video he saw once where someone's brakes were worn down to a ridiculous level.

    Now I feel like a bad car mom, lol.
    He's got practical knowledge and a good ear. Also Delta st if estj will show you rather than ISTp who tend to take care of those things for you

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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    I tentatively type the girl as ESI. He and she seem to get along comfortably enough, though I don't sense any attraction between them. But they're able to spend significant time together amicably.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Positivist but also a sensory type? There's a slight chance of Negativist because he could be LSE who comes from a background where he hasn't been used and taken advantage of thus making him trusting. Norm is that LSE don't trust people
    Ok, so there's something odd that I'm trying to figure out how to describe. As far as I can tell, he and his family don't take advantage of or cheat anyone, as in they're not malicious, but they do seem to all feel perfectly fine doing things unconventionally that could be seen as "working the system" or... is there a word or phrase for entrepreneurial legal grifting? Whatever it is a couple of times the stories he's told felt kind of on the edge of ethics for me, though technically it might not be wrong. For example, he told me a story about how his clan used to go camping at Yosemite and they'd start off with several average camping spots all spread out and end up all together on a large plot in the best spot AND with enough extra money to pay for the whole trip. They'd do this by making deals with the other campers and moving everyone around, all apart from the rangers and the official system. It sounded like everybody ended up happy enough with their situations, but his family definitely ended up better off. He never partook in these maneuverings, his elders did, and as he told the story he seemed to be aware it could be seen as sketchy, but he still thought it was a good plan.

    He's said at one point that he might have gotten into white collar crime if he wasn't a Christian. Breaking rules that don't serve him (or other people, when he's being ethically-minded) seems to be ok with him.

    Speculating now: Maybe, having grown up around people who can ad-lib and maneuver, he feels confident in detecting such. Thus, less worry about if he can trust people. His family, while opportunistic, doesn't seem evil, either. So, yeah, I don't seem to have heard anything about his own trust getting broken in any scarring ways.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    I asked some friends a couple questions recently while at a dinner:
    1) What fictional character do you relate to?
    2) Which fictional character would you marry?

    The above-mentioned ESI-possible girl said 1) the main character from Alias and 2) an esoteric character whose main appeal was that he helped a woman become internally stronger.

    The friend who this thread is about said 1) Indian Jones and 2) Belle or Anne of Green Gables.

    (For the curious, I said 1) Jane Eyre and 2) not sure but a placeholder is Captain America.)
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Ok, ask me questions, people. I want to figure this one out and my logics aren't cooperating. Tell me what to do.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Ok, ask me questions, people. I want to figure this one out and my logics aren't cooperating. Tell me what to do.
    You are not good at typing Minde. Just take me along lol

    For starters how much does the person like to talk? What is there sense of humor like? When you ask them about what their ideas of improving social are what do they say? Are their answers more subjective or objective

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    So, why do you not think this guy is LIE?

    As I was reading through your descriptions of the guy, I was thinking LIE or LSE for about 20% of them, LIE for 100% of them.

    Er, wait. You said he was Christian. That is LSE, not LIE. However, white collar crime is LIE.

    I could go on, on a sentence-by-sentence basis, but I think the guy is LIE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    - Is very neat and orderly and clean. He sometimes shows flashes of annoyance at people (or the thought of people) messing with his personal space, particularly dirtying it or breaking things.
    - Did I mention inventive and good with hands-on things? Recently a friend asked him to fix her car's headlight, which wasn't working. He said he'd never fixed a headlight and didn't know much about cars but he'd take a look. He fiddled around, pulled out the bulb with the wiring, commented "The last guy did this kind of funky," changed the bulb, fiddled around to put it back, "Oh, that's why he did it like that," then went to his car to get a plastic fork with which he did some wedging and propping that'd keep the light in place until a mechanic with more tools could do it more securely. To my EII self, the whole thing appeared to be magic. He later semi-jokingly bemoaned the loss of that "good fork" that he'll now have to replace. "Fortunately, I do have a few more at home."
    - Appears to be prepared for all sorts of things, and in comfort-enhancing ways. On one psuedo-hike activity he brought iced tea in his camelbak. See also: keeping utensils handy in his car. This, however, can backfire in that he ends up packing too much and regrets the weight or hassle of the excess.
    - The more I talk with him, the more opinionated he reveals himself to be. He has some pretty particular, concrete likes and dislikes, especially as it relates to how it impacts himself. Like in terms of tastes and processes.
    - He's also health-conscious, and takes care of his body, though he doesn't seem to take it to any extremes. He appears to be the most healthy of his immediate family.
    - Back on the hiking thing, while friends have described him as a very good hiker he says he doesn't actually enjoy it much and will only want to go if there's something worthwhile at the destination.

    I'm going to venture into more Minde-is-speculating land again: As I learn more about him, I think he used to be shyer when he was younger. He described himself as often being involved in activities in the background, e.g. sound technician for school performances. However nowadays he doesn't seem to have many hesitations striking up (superficial level) conversations with anyone he runs into, though he's more likely to talk with someone who either is interesting or has something he could use.


    Someone very helpful suggested E7 for him.
    I'm getting a SLI-Te impression so far through these mini-portraits of him - could be Social instinct first, which may create a superficial impression of Fe (especially in the so/sx stacking and ease with which they make connections and strike up contacts with other people).

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    So, why do you not think this guy is LIE?

    As I was reading through your descriptions of the guy, I was thinking LIE or LSE for about 20% of them, LIE for 100% of them.

    Er, wait. You said he was Christian. That is LSE, not LIE. However, white collar crime is LIE.

    I could go on, on a sentence-by-sentence basis, but I think the guy is LIE.
    hm Adam I've considered LIE too as I was reading Minde's descriptions, however, I don't think LIE's "store" other people's sensory preferences the way she has described of this guy below, and warn them away from unpleasant experiences - that's prescribed to -Si, especially when used as a base function. sans the Si, SLIs and LIEs do seem similar in a way ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Usually an "Oh, hm" sort of reaction. Or if it's something he likes, sometimes an, "Oh, why not?" requesting more information and reasons from me. So far I haven't felt him trying to pressure me away from an opinion or even really require an airtight reason. In fact, sometimes it's like he simply takes it and incorporates it into how he interacts with me.

    Here's a hopefully helpful albeit rather basic example: He knows I don't enjoy very spicy foods and he even knows approximately my cutoff point for spiciness. One time we all were at a restaurant and I said I was planning on getting a particular dish, one that was new to me. He interrupted a small-talk conversation I was having with someone else and said, "Have you had [ingredient] before?" I said, "No." He kind of made a face so I said, "Why?" He kept making the face and looked to be searching for words so I guessed, "Is it spicy?" He replied, "Yes, you might not like it." I thanked him and chose something else. Someone else got something with the same ingredient and let me have a taste; it wasn't over-the-top spicy but I was glad to not have it as my whole meal.

    So that's what I consider one reaction to a negative opinion of mine. It's like he filed my preference away as practically applicable fact, and then felt concern that I stay unbothered by whatever it was that I didn't like to the point where he'd insert himself into the situation to prevent it.

    Granted, that's something sensing-based. As far as moral opinions or boundaries that I don't feel like crossing, so far he seems to have a same sort of "taking into account" approach.

    For example, he likes to explore and sometimes that (apparently) involves going through "do not enter" doors or through boundaries that many would consider "do not cross" requests. I, on the other hand, have almost always been a rule-following individual since childhood. So unless I have a compelling, even moral reason to flout others' boundaries, I usually stick to what I "should" be doing. The exception might be if I sense that the rules in a particular context are flexible anyway, e.g. driving the speed of traffic instead of strictly the posted limits. For me, it's respecting others' wishes, which is something I would like done for myself.

    Anyway, that's a difference between us, and he seems to treat that preference of mine (and those of others) similarly to the food one. He'll suggest, say, "Let's see what's over here" or "Do you want to check this out?" but when I've hesitated he doesn't push and then seems to assume that henceforth we'll avoid whatever it was. (He doesn't know me well enough to know that sometimes I just need to ruminate on an idea for awhile, then be comfortable with trying it.)

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Sli

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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    For starters how much does the person like to talk? What is there sense of humor like? When you ask them about what their ideas of improving social are what do they say? Are their answers more subjective or objective
    He talks more in a one-on-one setting than in a group. But overall I'd call him a medium talker.

    His sense of humor is light and silly with a dose of clever.

    He seems cautious about talking about controversial subjects, which includes what to do about society, but I've been working on that. I haven't asked that particular question. His idea of contributing to society seems to center mainly around those he already knows. Like he helps out his family a lot, and he volunteers with community-centered projects that friends run.


    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    So, why do you not think this guy is LIE?
    His focus on comfort and convenience? General lack of Gamma-y values?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    As I was reading through your descriptions of the guy, I was thinking LIE or LSE for about 20% of them, LIE for 100% of them.

    Er, wait. You said he was Christian. That is LSE, not LIE. However, white collar crime is LIE.

    I could go on, on a sentence-by-sentence basis, but I think the guy is LIE.
    Maybe that's another reason my subconscious was saying "Ask Adam questions."

    Twice now he's taken his knife out to quietly shave off rough spots on pieces of furniture that he encountered, once at a party and once in a restaurant. It was more important to get it fixed than it was to avoid the mildly annoyed glances of other patrons. Have you ever done this? Would you?

    Comfort is very important to him. And convenience. I'm no longer surprised when the topic of bathtub/shower and bed setup comes up. Fans, bed heaters, remote controls for lights and audio, space for candles, etc. Yes, he's single and has been for awhile, so this is all for just himself.


    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    I'm getting a SLI-Te impression so far through these mini-portraits of him - could be Social instinct first, which may create a superficial impression of Fe (especially in the so/sx stacking and ease with which they make connections and strike up contacts with other people).

    hm Adam I've considered LIE too as I was reading Minde's descriptions, however, I don't think LIE's "store" other people's sensory preferences the way she has described of this guy below, and warn them away from unpleasant experiences - that's prescribed to -Si, especially when used as a base function. sans the Si, SLIs and LIEs do seem similar in a way ...
    I could possibly go with SLI with the exception of his overall friendliness and ease around people, yes.

    A complaint an IJ (probably LII) friend of mine has about him is that he will get delayed and distracted in a mission because he stops to talk to people.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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