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Thread: LSEs/ESTjs being difficult by being blunt

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    Default LSEs/ESTjs being difficult by being blunt

    Following is the way in which LSE are difficult by being blunt

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neeh...NtD6aEWBTpJUPT

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    I wonder if Maritsa understands what an abusive person or relationship is like, or that trying to rationalize it a personality theory is a huge problem.
    Whatever type this guy is, he's not "being difficult" or blunt, he's being an asshole and apparently a lot of people like to listen to him trash talk all the time.

    If this his how all his shows are (which the 3 clips I listened to briefly appeared as such), I'm not sure he's delta, but I would hope anyone reading this does not come to expect that from a LSE or ever see this kind of behavior as normal or acceptable for someone of a particular type.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    I wonder if Maritsa understands what an abusive person or relationship is like, or that trying to rationalize it a personality theory is a huge problem.
    Whatever type this guy is, he's not "being difficult" or blunt, he's being an asshole and apparently a lot of people like to listen to him trash talk all the time.

    If this his how all his shows are (which the 3 clips I listened to briefly appeared as such), I'm not sure he's delta, but I would hope anyone reading this does not come to expect that from a LSE or ever see this kind of behavior as normal or acceptable for someone of a particular type.
    Don't talk to me in the third person

    And you are not LSE so you would not know

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    I think you're both right, @Maritsa and @UDP

    I agree he's LSE, based on this and having previously watched his shows and interviews. He is being a jerk in the clip linked above, and probably often irl. He's aware of it, but is sort of like a spoiled kid acting out. He knows exactly what he's doing, and I agree may actually be abusive.
    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

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    I watched a couple of these yesterday and my only impression is that they are both playing to the target audience (which isn't me) and exaggerating everything. She is probably the "boss" at home. Not sure why I think that other than a hunch. I have had similar conversations with guys where we are both going on about the other gender and it is meant playfully and neither of us believe it. I did catch a glimpse of one titled ugly women or something similar that I didn't bother to look at because it seemed like it would just be stupid.

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    So you think this is more an act for the audience, @Aylen? I could see that. He definitely knows what he's doing, imo, whether she's in on it or not. I can't tell if he's being a jerk for the sake of the show or his own amusement (and make-up sex?). Seems like what he's saying might have actually hurt her feelings, but I don't know... we do live in an era of fighting for views, shares, etc.


    I know an LSE woman who will make her EII husband mad kind of on purpose (I say "kind of" bc sometimes I wonder if it was actually accidental at first and she just went too far) and they will have a little tiff before eventually making up. They don't fight, exactly, but mostly bc the EII doesn't react w fire; he just tells her off in a quiet way and then gives her the cold shoulder until it passes. He does seem to run things in their relationship, at least in terms of Fi. Like, the LSE will get herself into the doghouse and then kind of enjoys having to earn her way back into the EII's good graces after she's pissed him off. (I realize it might sound like a Beta romance the way I'm describing it, but they're definitely LSE and EII. They're also pretty low-key even in the midst of these tiffs...and it's like neither one takes it too seriously).
    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

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    LSE love getting a reaction, playing little games to win . Look at @Sol here. He doesn't it you me all the time for kicks and giggles but he knows I'll forgive him which makes him want to do it more

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    Quote Originally Posted by sapphire View Post
    So you think this is more an act for the audience, @Aylen? I could see that. He definitely knows what he's doing, imo, whether she's in on it or not. I can't tell if he's being a jerk for the sake of the show or his own amusement (and make-up sex?). Seems like what he's saying might have actually hurt her feelings, but I don't know... we do live in an era of fighting for views, shares, etc.

    I know an LSE woman who will make her EII husband mad kind of on purpose (I say "kind of" bc sometimes I wonder if it was actually accidental at first and she just went too far) and they will have a little tiff before eventually making up. They don't fight, exactly, but mostly bc the EII doesn't react w fire; he just tells her off in a quiet way and then gives her the cold shoulder until it passes. He does seem to run things in their relationship, at least in terms of Fi. Like, the LSE will get herself into the doghouse and then kind of enjoys having to earn her way back into the EII's good graces after she's pissed him off. (I realize it might sound like a Beta romance the way I'm describing it, but they're definitely LSE and EII. They're also pretty low-key even in the midst of these tiffs...and it's like neither one takes it too seriously).
    I don't think his wife has any problem with the way he expresses himself from what I heard. Her laugh seems genuine. I have seen both IEI-SLE and EII-LSE banter in this way but it was among friends. Sometimes the EII was hurt when he went too far. I don't take these kinds of interactions seriously with an SLE or even an ILI because I can give it right back. I did have some conflict with an SLI because I was not always sure when he was teasing me or trying to hurt me so I would get more defensive with one particular SLI until he would say something that made me feel a bit better. I do believe it is part of their "act".

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    LSE love getting a reaction, playing little games to win . Look at @Sol here. He doesn't it you me all the time for kicks and giggles but he knows I'll forgive him which makes him want to do it more
    It is hard to tell with sol sometimes because I believe him when he says he does not see you as his dual. That tends to annoy me when he dismisses you by saying you are not EII and I kind of wish you would respond with a bit more fire. <3

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    This kind of thing reminds me of Rick's old (classic) post about each person's roles in a dual relationship. One of the F type's roles was smoothing over misunderstandings. I think we can see w LSE-EII and SLI-IEE how that also means putting limits on the T type's rude or potentially hurtful behavior, and/or engaging in the game to an extent. When I read the description I assumed it meant the F type was kind of sweet and understanding all the time, but my irl experience and what I hear from others suggests the F type is often more strong and willing to fight than the descriptions say...at least, it's one thing I don't recall reading much about in descriptions, but people seem to post about a fair amount.

    Maybe this is how it is in all quadras, of course.
    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    It is hard to tell with sol sometimes because I believe him when he says he does not see you as his dual. That tends to annoy me when he dismisses you by saying you are not EII and I kind of wish you would respond with a bit more fire. <3
    I don't respond with fire. I'm not like that. I've told him when he's nearing crossing the line with me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sapphire View Post
    I think you're both right, @Maritsa and @UDP

    I agree he's LSE, based on this and having previously watched his shows and interviews. He is being a jerk in the clip linked above, and probably often irl. He's aware of it, but is sort of like a spoiled kid acting out. He knows exactly what he's doing, and I agree may actually be abusive.
    Because Nia is SEE she gives the wrong reaction calling him an asshole and storming out. I would react with walking away and giving the cold shoulder until he notices that I'm upset and comes to me to say "I was only joking babe"

    In my sensitive and quiet ways LSE develope sensitive qualities too and will calm their nonsensical saying. The SEE is a light hearted happy go have fun type who laugh a lot so they react differently

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    LSE love getting a reaction, playing little games to win
    I agree. My husband does this too, but I can see how other people, like @Aylen, aren't always sure it's a joke. I have one friend, for example, who sometimes takes his joking seriously and has gotten her feelings hurt. It's partly Fe PoLR -- he doesn't emote enough for it to be clear he's joking unless you are in on it enough to know.

    You are loving Bill Burr lately, huh @Maritsa. You're making me want to watch one of his specials again
    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I don't respond with fire. I'm not like that. I've told him when he's nearing crossing the line with me.
    Fire was probably the wrong word. I guess I mean like the way you respond more assertively when you interact with other EII, sometimes. You do not respond as assertively with sol that you do with others.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by sapphire View Post
    I agree. My husband does this too, but I can see how other people, like @Aylen, aren't always sure it's a joke. I have one friend, for example, who sometimes takes his joking seriously and has gotten her feelings hurt. It's partly Fe PoLR -- he doesn't emote enough for it to be clear he's joking unless you are in on it enough to know.

    You are loving Bill Burr lately, huh @Maritsa. You're making me want to watch one of his specials again
    Yes I am. I wish he would toner down the cursing though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Fire was probably the wrong word. I guess I mean like the way you respond more assertively when you interact with other EII, sometimes. You do not respond as assertively with sol that you do with others.
    Really I thought I did by saying he won't talk to me But every time I tell someone they won't I end up talking to them .

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    Quote Originally Posted by sapphire View Post
    I agree. My husband does this too, but I can see how other people, like @Aylen, aren't always sure it's a joke. I have one friend, for example, who sometimes takes his joking seriously and has gotten her feelings hurt. It's partly Fe PoLR -- he doesn't emote enough for it to be clear he's joking unless you are in on it enough to know.

    You are loving Bill Burr lately, huh @Maritsa. You're making me want to watch one of his specials again
    I learned to tone it down around Fe polr because my stepdad and ex were both ILI (both dead now). I suppose there is an argument to be made that it is a super-ego or conflict thing between me and some people but I don't like to let socionics limit my choices on how to interact with others.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Really I thought I did by saying he won't talk to me But every time I tell someone they won't I end up talking to them .
    You have a big soft heart.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    @HotSauce what do you think about this interaction?

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    Maritsa,

    I think LSE may say many things that you'd like to say but you may be too diplomatic to deliver the goods in that way. What's worst: to embarrass oneself or someone else with the truth or to think one way but diplomatically say something else to protect sensitivities; with one, you may anger and with the other, you may promote delusion. I think LSE are very open to forthright correction of their actions even though they may fight back during the process; other's can be far more intransigent and devious. And, all types make terrible decisions, even those that do not create a scene or rub people the wrong way.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Maritsa,

    I think LSE may say many things that you'd like to say but you may be too diplomatic to deliver the goods in that way. What's worst: to embarrass oneself or someone else with the truth or to think one way but diplomatically say something else to protect sensitivities; with one, you may anger and with the other, you may promote delusion. I think LSE are very open to forthright correction of their actions even though they may fight back during the process; other's can be far more intransigent and devious. And, all types make terrible decisions, even those that do not create a scene or rub people the wrong way.

    a.k.a. I/O
    the other day I said "these investors got weird names" and my LSE cousin said "they got effed up names" I didn't have the heart to say effed up because they achieved great things despite their names and I have an ethical issues with making fun of people with odd names

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    Bill Burr is other type


    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    You have a big soft heart
    it's hard for exrtaverts to keep silence
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    it's hard for exrtaverts to keep silence
    If you can't help it, don't be so hard on yourself.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Bill Burr is LSE? That explains why I like him as a comedian and his podcasts even though he's probably an asshole, lol.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Bill Burr is other type




    it's hard for exrtaverts to keep silence
    Let's look at this:

    1. "I'm being a professional."
    2. "I've done this and that...."
    3. "That is the second time you say this..."
    4. "I don't do that..."
    5. "I don't feel like this is happening to someone else..." Si
    6. "That was tremendously unprofessional." TeSi
    7. "That became a style...you see the people in the crowd making the videos" Action all of it observation of action
    8. "I try to use those tools when I do the act." Who else uses tools as a tactical move?
    9. "the way they shot that show was this here that there and that there and when I watched it at home." Sequence of events and actions are described

    So what other type is he? I can think of SiTe SLI but no other type.

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    I couldn't find a video of it but that part in season 5 episode 5 of The Walking Dead when Abraham wants to blindly charge through a massive hoard of zombies and then goes berserk when the others refuse to follow is a perfect example of how LSEs can sometimes be difficult IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Bill Burr

    it's hard for exrtaverts to keep silence



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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Don't talk to me in the third person

    And you are not LSE so you would not know
    I wasn't talking to you, it was directed at other readers.
    I'm quite alright with not actually interacting with you here.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Showing disdain and being abusive are not the same thing.

    If you think taking down equals questioning what someone knows, or clarifying that I wasn't speaking to her (because we often avoid interacting), then so be it.

    I think much of what she said is very problematic, and I stand by that belief.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    He's not being abusive. He's messing with her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    He's not being abusive. He's messing with her.
    Not to break any unspoken mutual avoidance truces, but I have to say I love this response. Well done. Elegant, simple, peace-making, yet non-aggressively maintains your position.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Not to break any unspoken mutual avoidance truces, but I have to say I love this response. Well done. Elegant, simple, peace-making, yet non-aggressively maintains your position.
    Thank you

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    Merit he doesn't want to be seen as having done something wrong because it's not his intention to make her feel bad. He just says things which are not pretty and flowery but he cares and provides. He's still being difficult

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    I see how I phrased things takes away from my actual goal; no I was not trying to be "abusive" or dismissive, but I suppose the less problematic way to say it is that much of the advice given I find highly problematic. I regret the .... confusion or offense.... such might have caused.

    Overly positive or negative behaviors, elements of respect, shouldn't be excused or overlooked or expected because of someone's type or intertype relationship. That can be very dangerous, especially if someone is in a bad situation - the last thing needed is more justification to stay in a place, "because my dual just isn't supposed to be good at that, and I am just supposed to be able to deal with it".



    --


    re yen.
    If you particularly want to talk about type stuff we can somewhere else.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    The dad in Shit My Dad Says is LSE, I believe. I have been reading this and cracking up
    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

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    I think Bill Burr looks a lot like Joe McHale but Paul Harvey comes up as his physical match a lot, in various percentages.

    http://www.celebslike.me/match?imgur...56928&y=0.4305

    I looked him up and I think maybe Paul was LSE too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Harvey

    These matches are based on facial structure—think jawline, eye spacing and nose shape—and not things such as hair length or color. That means your matches will share the same facial structure, but perhaps include a mix of gender and races.

    How The Tech Works: Prepare to Geek Out

    The Bing team built one of the largest vision-recognition engines in the world, leveraging face and vision APIs that are part of the perceptual intelligence capabilities of Cortana Analytics. This recognition engine recognizes celebrity faces, like Tom Hanks and Keira Knightley, for example, in web images on a large scale with extremely high accuracy. The engine then links these entities to both the Bing Satori knowledge graph, where we have information about the entity, and Image Graph, where we have knowledge based on visual features and web presence of the image. The engine, in communicating with Bing databases and using state of the art deep learning, functions as an end-to-end simulation of human behavior in understanding and learning. It continues to build and provide comprehensive knowledge on the appearance of a huge number of celebrity images, including those nominated for Oscars. Check out this paper to learn more about what it takes to recognize one million celebrities in the world.


    The performance of our recognition engine is better than that of human beings in certain vision tasks, and is continuing to improve. We have some exciting stuff coming soon and will share more details in the near future.


    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  38. #38
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I think Bill Burr looks a lot like Joe McHale but Paul Harvey comes up as his physical match a lot, in various percentages.

    http://www.celebslike.me/match?imgur...56928&y=0.4305

    I looked him up and I think maybe Paul was LSE too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Harvey
    Harvey is LSE

  39. #39
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willyum Take4 View Post
    I think Bill Burr might be SLE. SLEs can also be critical of things which are unprofessional and observant of styles, trends, actions, tools, etc. Bill Burr reminds me of Donald Trump who I believe is SLE and a bit like Kobe Bryant, who I think is also Beta ST.

    Regarding the generalization of LSEs being difficult, per thread topic directly, I find LSEs tend to give personal ultimatums when they want to 'be difficult', or will expect a certain level of professionalism from someone and refuse to interact with them until it is up to par - similar to their dual's nature, the EIIs nature, of regulating emotional distance. In this moment LSEs can show flashes of anger occasionally when revealing their direct feelings that they are uneasy with, but it tends to be short-lived as they make their points and what they want directly clear in a non-joking manner.

    SLEs being difficult I think is similar, but they tend to 'play' with the other person's emotions a bit more, almost like a cat-and-mouse sort of game, similar to their dual, IEI. In the first video of the thread when Bill told his girlfriend Nia to get out of the room with the podcast, since he was annoyed by her, her smell, music, etc., he was joking/messing with her. I feel a serious or 'difficult' LSE would have simply demanded she leave immediately, and it would be over in 10 seconds. Bill Burr purposefully drew it out for comedic purposes for the podcast for several minutes. Bill Burr is very sanguine and wants to be seen as 'fun' and tries to joke to take control of the situation - in my opinion in the same manner as Donald Trump will joke about things in order to express his honest opinions without coming across as a complete asshole, so that they can be justified then in saying whatever they want under the excuse that 'it's a joke'.

    In my opinion, Bill Burr even VIs very similar to Donald Trump as SLE. He has the trademark "puffiness" around his eyes that older male SLEs tend to get, even though Bill is 22 years younger than Donald:





    And when SLEs try to be "animated" and "fun" or attempt to express Fe, they tend to do so incredibly dramatically and over-the-top, again in the same manner of commanding attention and thus control of the situation and their influence over others:






    And when SLEs say something that they then realize upsets the emotional atmosphere or people's inner feelings (Fi-devaluing), they can 'shrug' it off, or like somewhat confused even how others would be upset, but then ultimately not really care as much and just keep going with their humor.





    But in the end, their smugness and authority they no problem showing off and gloating at times, when they personally feel that they are better than other people:






    So long story short, I think Bill Burr is SLE. I think his behavior in the first video with the podcast and his girlfriend interrupting showed his controlling and bossy tendencies expressed in a way I see SLEs do that LSEs don't do. LSEs can sometimes mess with people for fun, too, but it tends to be short-lived and more to-the-point, imho, while SLEs tend to revel in the fight itself and all the nuances of 'bettering' the other person. Bill Burr reminds me heavily of Donald Trump in the same manner/thought-process as well as visually. SLE is my vote for him.


    I have always had a pretty good eye for noticing similarities in faces but since playing with facial recognition I am getting better. Structurally Bill and Donald do not appear to look the same to me so I ran some comparisons, and of the few I did, I only got 33% match between Trump and Burr. I could have done more but I used three from different angles and thought it was sufficient for this exercise. I am not invested in him being any type. Not surprisingly there is greater similarity between Trump and Newt.




    and this guy, Larry Wilcox.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  40. #40
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    @Willyum Take4, I think VI can be useful and even illumunating, but despite the photo match-ups you posted (some of which are remarkable), Burr and Trump VI differently to me (apart from the tremendous differences in their personalities and the impressions of them I get from watching and listening to them).

    @Aylen -- That's an interesting tool. I like that
    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

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