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Thread: Prayer styles for different temperaments - NT, NF, SJ, SP

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Default Prayer styles for different temperaments - NT, NF, SJ, SP

    Based on the four temperaments. When I first heard of the correlation between prayer styles and temperaments I was not interested, as, prayer is so personal. My thinking was that prayer was just talking to God, so there is not analyzing that. But of course there is. We can analyze people (and often discover their type) by how they talk. Also how we talk most comfortably to God says something of us. So after reading the different temperament types of prayer, I concede that our personality type affects what sort of prayer life appeals to us.

    I did not expect Augustine for me but when i read it, it makes perfect sense. I guess I really didn't know about Augustine like I knew of St. Francis, who would have been my pick. Or the great St. Thomas Aquinas, but I must admit I do not approach thought with systematic logic like he. So I am Augustine, the one who prayed as a young man, "Lord, make me chaste, but not yet!" Yes, we want to do what we want to do, now, and we'll do the perfect thing some time later. We NFs must be the ones who particularly need to pray: "Lord, help me want to do your will." I do pray that a lot, as I need to. And God answers that prayer!]

    Here is a link to where I got this info and below I will summarize. http://www.msgr.ca/msgr-3/personalitytypeprayers.html

    You can see below that these are four very different approaches and they really do coincide with the temperaments. You can see each Saint is "pre-Reformation", in case that matters to you. So these are saints for everyone. And Happy Holy Saturday. I call this "Serious Saturday". And blessed Easter to all. Everyone here is in my prayers. Here is a summary of prayer approaches:



    thomas-2-sized.jpg
    NT-Thomistic - St. Thomas Aquinas b.1225 A.D.
    [No surprise the NT's get this prayer-style of this great intellectual, great logical mind, St. Thomas Aquinas. The NT thinks through things logically, arriving at his understanding through logic.] Like this:

    You consider a virtue, a fault, a theological truth and "walk around it", studying it from every possible angle. To enable you to get the full grasp on the topic chosen for Thomistic Prayer, it is recommended that you use the seven auxiliary questions: WHAT, WHY, HOW, WHO, WHERE, WHEN, WITH WHAT HELPS and apply each of them to the topic selected.

    By way of example, you might take the virtue of faith as the subject of your meditation. You would then ask the following questions:

    What do we mean by faith?

    What is entailed in the practice of faith?

    What are the reasons to justify the pursuit of faith?

    Why should I have faith?

    What is the value of it?

    How might I practice faith?

    When and where should it be practiced?

    Who are some of the people in the Scriptures and in history who are examples of the practice of faith?

    Finally, what aids can I use to help me practice faith?

    The whole exercise should conclude with suitable resolutions of how you are going to practice the virtue of faith.
    __________________________________________________ __



    st-augustine-1.jpg
    NF - Agustinian prayer (St. Augustine of Hippo, b.354 A.D. )

    Remember that Augustinian Spirituality makes use of your imagination by transposing the words of the Scriptures and applies them to your situation today. This provides you with a personal reflection on the presence of God in his Word.

    Luke's Gospel is of particular interest to the iNtuitive-Feeling personality type. Jesus' compassion for sinners... for women... and outcasts finds a responsive chord.

    Of all the temperaments, the iNtuitive-Feeling personality needs more time in prayer and quiet meditation than any of the others. For the iNtuitive-Feeling personality such time is not a luxury but a necessity as far as personal development and relationship with God is concerned.

    "What do these words of Scripture mean to me in my present situation?"

    "What message is the Lord trying to convey to me in these ancient words of the Bible?"

    By using their iNtuition in this transposition, the iNtuitive-Feeling personality makes the Bible relevant to current personal and community problems and needs. In order to practice the Prayer of Transposition, which we call Augustinian Prayer, the iNtuitive-Feeling personality needs to open him/herself to one's creative imagination. Usually good with words, both in speaking and writing, the iNtuitive-Feeling personality type finds journal keeping not a chore but a joy.


    ________________________________

    ignatius.jpg
    SJ - Ignatian Prayer (St. Ignatius of Loyola, b.1491)

    [IMO, the picture above of St. Ignatius looks like an ISTj. Ignatius is the founder of the rule of order for monastic life. Most monasteries and convents have their rules connected to him. Also Ignatius if known for his retreats that bring us closer to our walk with God. He seems very good at creating order. Oh, and founder of the Jesuits who have an amazing history of holiness and intellectual and scientific and educational advances - we owe much of our civilisation's advances to them - but of course, they are human, and Jesuits as a group, particularly these later years, also exemplify some HUGE falls from grace and departure from the ideals and teachings of their venerable founder. Anyway, what an organizer. I guess maybe that's an SJ thing?] Here is Ignatian prayer style:

    The Ignatian Method of prayer places oneself in the Biblical scene where you become a part of it by way of your imagination. Try to imagine what you might see... what you might hear... and what the persons in the scene might being doing. At each point in the contemplation, try to draw some practical fruit from the reflection for your own life today. What changes and challenges does your reflection on the event furnish?

    The pattern is especially appealing to the Sensing-Judging personality and can be found reflected in the Epistle of James where a sense of duty is strongly presented. He insisted that Christianity should keep faithful to the ancient traditions of the Jews. We can also see this in the Gospel of Matthew, where the evangelist emphasizes how Jesus is the fulfillment of the Old Testament hope and the continuity we have with the past in the Hebrew Scriptures.

    In your devotional reading of Scripture, you may find a passage in James' Epistle particularly helpful. Write down the reference in your Prayer Journal and look it up. Read it several times through and reflect on it. There may be several such passages that come to mind for you in the Gospel of Matthew. Write down those references and look them up during your prayer time. When the passage lends itself to an imaginative reflection, listen and discover what God is saying to you...

    A deliberate, conscious effort has to be made to develop hope and trust and to look on the optimistic side of the Good News of the Gospel. Frequent meditation or reflection on the Resurrection of Jesus rather than constant recall of the Passion and Death is recommended to the Sensing-Judging personality.

    _____________________________

    st_francis_big.jpg
    SP - Franciscan (St. Francis of Assisi b.1182 A.D.

    Franciscan Spirituality is characterized by its application. It is very popular among ordinary people, those men and women of action who want and need to do things for others. Acts of loving service can be a most effective form of prayer. Franciscan Spirituality is very optimistic and sees the beauty, goodness, and love of God everywhere. When you consider that a Sensing-Perceiving person like Francis of Assisi makes contact with God primarily through their sense impressions … what we see, smell, touch, hear and taste … it would follow that since the Incarnation is the visible, audible, tangible presence of God upon earth, the Sensing-Perceiving personality could relate quite well to Jesus' life and teachings through the parables.

    The Sensing-Perceiving personality type does not respond well to the symbolic but is primarily interested in the real and literal. Franciscan Prayer makes full use of the five senses and will be flexible and free-flowing. It is what is sometimes referred to as "spirit-filled prayer", totally open to the presence and voice of the Holy Spirit present in each one of us. Since Sensing-Perceiving persons can see God in the whole of creation, they are able to make a fruitful meditation on the beauty of a flower, a meadow, a lake, a waterfall, a mountain, the ocean, or any event in nature such as sunrises or sunsets, the changes of the seasons, Spring, Fall, a fresh snow in Winter.

    Much of their prayer is called virtual prayer, or the prayer of good works. A prayerful Sensing-Perceiving person will find the thought of God predominates every waking moment.

    The famous Jesus Prayer: "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me, a sinner," and other such prayers are readily used by Sensing-Perceiving persons and enable them to live constantly in the presence of God and see His hand in everything.


    The Sensing-Perceiving persons dislike formal prayer and prefers a free-flowing informal communion with God.
    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 03-26-2016 at 10:20 PM.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

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    .
    .


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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    NT, St.Thomas: 6ea4b9eb18c2a8b8f6bd38f1e30e1271.jpg


    NF, St. Augustine: Attachment 7310


    SJ, St.Ignatius: Attachment 7308


    SP, St. Francis: Attachment 7311
    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 03-26-2016 at 10:53 PM.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    This is great. I relate to NF

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    For some reason, I had been led to believe that Thomas Aquinas was LSI.

    From what I recall of Augustine, if he was a NF type, EIE would be most likely, but it does not seem to sit right.
    EII-Ne
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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Glad you like it, @Maritsa! I agree it fits NF very well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    For some reason, I had been led to believe that Thomas Aquinas was LSI.

    From what I recall of Augustine, if he was a NF type, EIE would be most likely, but it does not seem to sit right.
    Hi Subteigh! I thought of you the whole time I was writing abotu St. Thomas Aquinas, thinkign how he fit you. Because you are a logical thinker. You have done more than me as far as thinking of these personality types for thme which I have not done til today. But St. Thomas is considered "THE Philosopher" and you really need "N" to get far with philosophy, do't ou think. And he is the LOGICAL philosopher, which fits with NT.
    ARISTOTLEAQUINAS.jpg
    A good friend with whom I like to talk theology is an INTj. I can really see her following Aquinas thought with ease. Her thought is logically easy to follow - well, as easy as complex ideas can be to follow. She, like Aquinas, can take very complex ideas and communicate them clearly to regular folks. The fact that she is also a holographic panoramic like me makes it easier for me to follow than the logic of say, and INTp. I found this on St. Thomas Aquinas today:

    "After reading Thomas's thesis and thinking it brilliant, his professor, St. Albert the Great, proclaimed in Thomas's defense, "We call this young man a dumb ox, but his bellowing in doctrine will one day resound throughout the world!"

    More St. Thomas Aquinas memes:

    7432b3dfdc7e68fa49b1e256dca13e1f.jpg
    (See, Subteigh? You NEED St. Thomas.)

    63820548.jpg

    56eb0b23a973786e21406498cf6fa492.jpg

    Now the memes for St. Augustine, I see how they fit me and how I think better. I never thought of him as my type, but maybe EIE like you say. Some kind of NF certainly seems possible. But these memes refer to justice and mercy - two concepts that hold my attention, too, since they are important to me:
    meme-augustine.png
    15980ddf5aa7418947bc33892d7d1c9f.jpg

    Here, for St. Ignatius, are memes for a more sturdy soul. He seems maybe ISTj to me, because he had that forceful incredible FULL attention to a thing. He was all-in what he was in. And rather than N qualities - ideas and philosophy - his are memes refer to his stalwart toughness, in his personality:
    ignatiusofloyola3.png
    1011355_220657531417330_374945488_n.jpg
    and in his thought:
    Saint-Ignatius-Quotes-5.jpg
    Saint-Ignatius-Quotes-4.jpg

    St. Francis memes are harder to find. Whats most powerful about him is his living in truth. I have known many secular Franciscans and they always appeal to me. The meme's below aren't really memes but they are like Francis and those who practice his spirituality:
    721964d920890cf20fda8124a98d644a.jpg
    st_francis_of_assisi_by_daxxbondoc.jpg
    Francis-of-Assisi-Quotes-3.jpg
    francissm.png
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayden View Post
    Hi @Eliza Thomason, while I appreciate your thoughts on this topic I find what is posted so far very limiting with more of a Myers Briggs slant by placing people in groups based on NT, NF etc rather than functions at use.
    For the record though I agreed with a little bit here and a little there from those descriptions for myself in regards to prayer, while husband agreed with a little of SJ and a little of SF for himself.

    Early life experience including the culture raised in effects our view on spirituality, religion and therefore prayer.

    Here are links to the culture I was raised in with a high focus on everything connected, history and ways of the tribe and Anglican influences. There is focus on objects, people and geographical features having meaning, signs or a spiritual purpose.

    http://youtu.be/KwoXR7K0pEw

    http://youtu.be/y6_74CBpNwc

    http://youtu.be/nwZoQuOgRaY
    Hi Shay! Those videos look like something completely unique to anything I have seen. By that I mean I did a quick glance only at the first minute of each. I want to give them the time and focused attention they deserve so I will look properly later! I have spent way too much time looking at those memes and now I need to make scalloped potatoes... they taste better 2nd day, Dh says, so I am doing them that way, tonight, and it will make tomorrow easier. (Dh's daughter can't wait for the potatoes tomorrow, and I hope everyone else is just as happy with them too!)

    Its so neat that both you and your husband looked at this. Thanks. You are right; it is based on MBTI - yet, I do think there is something to those temperaments, and doesn't it correlate to Socionics? (I don't understand why they are broken up into those four, though, do you? Does it correlate to sanguine, melancholic etc.??). I have seen this temperament/prayer thing before but only now find it of particular interest. Yes, early life and culture affects what feels at-home to us as far as prayer. Yet, one can discover anew culture later that feels even more right to us, particularly with temperaments, if one discovers one more compatible with it than the previous way. At any rate, I am interested in those curious videos and will look at them later.

    (editing to add: Even though my prayer/spirituality style is Augustinian, the life God has me in right now calls for more practical Franciscan spirituality - pure, practical, continual service. Its what I admire when I see others doing it, but its not how I am most comfortable living - being constantly alert for ways to minister practically. Its my husband's style though, and it seems to come more natural to him. I guess in the same way we don't all marry our Duals or have children who are Duals so we have to relate in the way appropriate to the person or vocation we are in, instead of the easier way for us, the way we prefer to relate.)
    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 03-27-2016 at 04:25 AM.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    I don't get the SJ one. SP makes more sense. (Though none of them are very clear to me.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    For some reason, I had been led to believe that Thomas Aquinas was LSI.

    From what I recall of Augustine, if he was a NF type, EIE would be most likely, but it does not seem to sit right.
    They're not actually accurate. It's more of a "for fun" thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    For some reason, I had been led to believe that Thomas Aquinas was LSI.

    From what I recall of Augustine, if he was a NF type, EIE would be most likely, but it does not seem to sit right.
    I read the "Confessions of St Augustine" from a couple different translators and this is why I say the person writing or translating the history will shift the perception of the type. The last one I read (which I can't find at the moment) basically convinces me that he was hedonistic mama's boy who finally was guilt-ed into changing. I may even read another version in the future. The last one was recommended to me by an ILI who related to him on many levels. Except he didn't give up his "sinning" even though his mom prayed for him daily to. I listened to them debate for hours about Augustine and it was very entertaining.

    "O Lord, help me to be pure, but not yet." Saint Augustine

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Glad you like it, @Maritsa! I agree it fits NF very well.




    Hi Subteigh! I thought of you the whole time I was writing abotu St. Thomas Aquinas, thinkign how he fit you. Because you are a logical thinker. You have done more than me as far as thinking of these personality types for thme which I have not done til today. But St. Thomas is considered "THE Philosopher" and you really need "N" to get far with philosophy, do't ou think. And he is the LOGICAL philosopher, which fits with NT.
    ARISTOTLEAQUINAS.jpg
    A good friend with whom I like to talk theology is an INTj. I can really see her following Aquinas thought with ease. Her thought is logically easy to follow - well, as easy as complex ideas can be to follow. She, like Aquinas, can take very complex ideas and communicate them clearly to regular folks. The fact that she is also a holographic panoramic like me makes it easier for me to follow than the logic of say, and INTp. I found this on St. Thomas Aquinas today:

    "After reading Thomas's thesis and thinking it brilliant, his professor, St. Albert the Great, proclaimed in Thomas's defense, "We call this young man a dumb ox, but his bellowing in doctrine will one day resound throughout the world!"

    More St. Thomas Aquinas memes:

    7432b3dfdc7e68fa49b1e256dca13e1f.jpg
    (See, Subteigh? You NEED St. Thomas.)

    63820548.jpg

    56eb0b23a973786e21406498cf6fa492.jpg
    The doctrine of the Catholic Church is especially dogmatic, but Thomas Aquinas even more so. I could certainly see him as -dominant, but especially as a LSI.

    I do not consider Aquinas to have proved the existence of god even one way, nevermind five.

    "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." - this does not sound like a very NT-like thing to say.
    EII-Ne
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Now the memes for St. Augustine, I see how they fit me and how I think better. I never thought of him as my type, but maybe EIE like you say. Some kind of NF certainly seems possible. But these memes refer to justice and mercy - two concepts that hold my attention, too, since they are important to me:
    meme-augustine.png
    15980ddf5aa7418947bc33892d7d1c9f.jpg
    I'm surprised you think those fit you better than me, considering how I consider Damnation a fundamental evil (utterly unjust, lacking in mercy, inherently cruel etc.), whereas you don't. The fact that you do not consider the matter of primary significance I would have thought was rather telling.

    In regards the second image: that is of course completely self-serving of Augustine, as he lived rather outrageously when he was younger. I see a lot of similarities between him and Leo Tolstoy actually, although when typing people when limited by their religious dogma, it is very difficult.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    They're not actually accurate. It's more of a "for fun" thread.
    Considering the seriousness that Catholics revere their "Saints", I doubt it.
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    Regardless of my type, I find each sections 'prayer' rather empty.

    They do not sound at all like the sort of questions an individual with a personal relationship with god would ask. You don't need to ask what faith is, or ask what the practice of faith requires ("NT" questions), if god has proven his existence to you.

    The "NF" questions to me are also empty, if an individual does not believe in a moral god. If I was to ask those questions, it would be like asking them of Charles Manson, except that Charles Manson is alive and certainly exists. He is also less evil. I get my idealistic values from other places, having rejected the "ethics" of the bible at a very young age precisely because the god of the bible did not speak to me in my present situation, and did not justify his actions, despite all attempts by me to find a satisfactory answer. I have frequently raised the issues of the evil god with religious people throughout my life, and of course, it would not make any sense for me to "pray" to other humans by these supposed "NF" questions: humans are inherently subjective, and cannot explain away the evilness of the bible except by fluffy appeals, such as "god will speak to you", or "you know in your heart it's true", or "you should pray more", or "seek and ye shall find!". My relationship with god is deeply personal (even if his isn't): it is not for others to answer my questions or respond to my private feelings. The "NF" prayer just seems to be recognizing that at face value, the bible is a code of ethics, and that "NF" types are especially associated with such global ideologies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I'm surprised you think those fit you better than me, considering how I consider Damnation a fundamental evil (utterly unjust, lacking in mercy, inherently cruel etc.), whereas you don't. The fact that you do not consider the matter of primary significance I would have thought was rather telling.

    In regards the second image: that is of course completely self-serving of Augustine, as he lived rather outrageously when he was younger. I see a lot of similarities between him and Leo Tolstoy actually, although when typing people when limited by their religious dogma, it is very difficult.
    I myself have always preferred C.S. Lewis's view on the matter. Upon your death God gives you two choices. Either you say to him "thy will be done", or he says to you "thy will be done". You get to pick with both eyes opened. God's right there, he's showing you the choices and isn't really telling you what to do. You can accept the lord, or you can reject him. Acceptance brings you into paradise as you actually display your ability to be humble by saying it and admit that there is an existence that is superior to your own. You can admit that someone's better than you in some regard. Good! Humility is such a rare trait you get a free pass for actually having it!

    You can still pick to follow in the footsteps of Lucifer of course, and assert how you are a superior existence to the creator. To which he merely shrugs and says "so be it, don't forget that you chose this path" and gives you exactly what you wished for. A world where you're the supreme being... Well, of course you're supreme in this world, you're the only one there. Not even God goes there so you really are the supreme being within this infinite void. Gee, bet you're feeling vindicated and think you're all kinds of awesome for having proven God himself wrong eh? You have become a God... in a world where only you exist. Not very satisfying once ya think about that.

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    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    I myself have always preferred C.S. Lewis's view on the matter. Upon your death God gives you two choices. Either you say to him "thy will be done", or he says to you "thy will be done". You get to pick with both eyes opened. God's right there, he's showing you the choices and isn't really telling you what to do. You can accept the lord, or you can reject him. Acceptance brings you into paradise as you actually display your ability to be humble by saying it and admit that there is an existence that is superior to your own. You can admit that someone's better than you in some regard. Good! Humility is such a rare trait you get a free pass for actually having it!
    I would not consider that a fair and reasonable choice, for many reasons (the fact that C.S. Lewis is resorting to wishful thinking is another matter). I do not believe that saying I have better morals than the Abrahamic god is at all arrogant: it isn't even an especially high standard. I am greater than god, even if god happens to exist. I believe that having principles should be the primary reason any qualifies for paradise: being humble on something I should not be humble about, and on something of no consequence should not be rewarded.

    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    You can still pick to follow in the footsteps of Lucifer of course, and assert how you are a superior existence to the creator. To which he merely shrugs and says "so be it, don't forget that you chose this path" and gives you exactly what you wished for. A world where you're the supreme being... Well, of course you're supreme in this world, you're the only one there. Not even God goes there so you really are the supreme being within this infinite void. Gee, bet you're feeling vindicated and think you're all kinds of awesome for having proven God himself wrong eh? You have become a God... in a world where only you exist. Not very satisfying once ya think about that.
    The story of Lucifer is too implausible to be true. It does not make sense that an eternal being with the benefit of having certainty about the existence of god, and the power of god, would rebel knowing full well they would be cast out of paradise. The only logical conclusion is that Lucifer had doubts: but then, why is Lucifer being punished for acting according to how he was made? And of course, if Lucifer has doubts, it only solidifies the conviction that the Abrahamic god (as depicted in texts) is a human invention, because clearly, the whole story is incoherent. On top of this, it only furthers the knowledge that the god depicted is utterly inhumane: a god for example who punishes those have genuine doubts. That is not the mark of a moral being.

    In regards becoming a god in a world where only I exist: I do not know why you consider this any less satisfying than the position of an Abrahamic god that is presumably infinitely greater than any of the vessels he has created to worship himself. Of course strictly, if I was a god, I would be free to do whatever I liked, which makes C.S. Lewis's dreamt up offer especially idiotic. It is the mark of a man who claimed to believe in god, but seemed to know nothing about him.
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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayden View Post
    Hi @Eliza Thomason, while I appreciate your thoughts on this topic I find what is posted so far very limiting with more of a Myers Briggs slant by placing people in groups based on NT, NF etc rather than functions at use.
    For the record though I agreed with a little bit here and a little there from those descriptions for myself in regards to prayer, while husband agreed with a little of SJ and a little of SF for himself.

    Early life experience including the culture raised in effects our view on spirituality, religion and therefor prayer.

    Here are links to the culture I was raised in with a high focus on everything connected, history and ways of the tribe and Anglican influences. There is focus on objects, people and geographical features having meaning, signs or a spiritual purpose.

    http://youtu.be/KwoXR7K0pEw

    http://youtu.be/y6_74CBpNwc

    http://youtu.be/nwZoQuOgRaY
    This was interestign adn a very unique culture to be raised in. More rich in culture than what most of us experience.
    first video: I learned ANZAC is the New Zealand Veteran's Day and I think Te Houhanga Marae is someone they are memorializing? It is also very windy there!

    2nd video: A very beautiful forest and what a tree! Do they actually think the tree is God? Or instead are they just honoring as tehmagnificent creation of God?

    3rd video: Rose Pere - sounds like a very spiritual person.

    Are you still in NZ, Shay? So far away from where I am!
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    This was interestign adn a very unique culture to be raised in. More rich in culture than what most of us experience.
    first video: I learned ANZAC is the New Zealand Veteran's Day and I think Te Houhanga Marae is someone they are memorializing? It is also very windy there!

    2nd video: A very beautiful forest and what a tree! Do they actually think the tree is God? Or instead are they just honoring as tehmagnificent creation of God?

    3rd video: Rose Pere - sounds like a very spiritual person.

    Are you still in NZ, Shay? So far away from where I am!


    Te Houhanga is the name of the marae in the video and belongs to the Ngati Whatua people. There are lots of maraes for the different families and tribes across NZ. This particular one is fairly near the sea so yes it gets a bit windy there.

    I thought the marae clip worthy to link as it embraces both Maoritanga and the Christian culture which found it's way into Maori life mainly through the Anglican and Roman Catholic churches.

    Dr.Rangimarie Turuki Rose Pere has done much good for the culture through educating, language revitalisation and her community development work but there are many others who are doing similar.

    I no longer live in NZ but have lived there off and on throughout my years and have much family residing there. My son and his fiancé are currently visiting NZ for a family wedding.

    Maoritanga is worthy of respect and even those things which seem a bit barbaric- like today or deemed as wrong or simple etc served important purposes.
    I think some or all higher Maori priests (tohunga ahurewa?) believed all gods were one who had many names but thought that people shouldn't be informed of this. That there was one parent of all things, one God, one lord, one spirit'.

    Many of the Maori 'gods' are associated with creation myths and legends. When Christianity arrived the traditional religious beliefs began to fade away a bit. They do however provide a heritage rich in myths, legends and imagination.
    For example, Tane is the universal fertilizer who fertilized earth mother and caused her to produce vegetation. Light is what he represents and what he brought to this world. His name varies according to his functions. When called Tane Mahuta (second video clip) he is representing the trees.
    Adding an old photo of myself with Tane Mahuta
    http://s1325.photobucket.com/user/De...D=1&sort=1&o=0

    I am thankful for my years spent experiencing Moaritanga, I have learnt the basics of the culture and it's language and it has enriched my spiritual life.
    Last edited by Shay; 04-01-2016 at 05:09 PM.

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayden View Post
    Te Houhanga is the name of the marae in the video and belongs to the Ngati Whatua people... ...
    I am thankful for my years spent experiencing Moaritanga, I have learnt the basics of the culture and it's language and it has enriched my spiritual life.
    I want to say I put a lot of thought into this that you shared, researched things mentioned, - (and love the pic!) - and actually wrote quite a bit, but need to reign in my thoughts, so, saved it elsewhere for a review and rewrite. A Lent without writing much has maybe made me too anxious to put thoughts into written word. Anyway, I saved it, and sometime later I will write if you want. Really, if you want. I don't want to impose thoughts on people who don't care, that's for sure. I really have to discipline my time, and writing (and reading) too much, while interesting to me, is is time-consuming, and not prudent use of my time and I must reign it in.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    I want to say I put a lot of thought into this that you shared, researched things mentioned, - (and love the pic!) - and actually wrote quite a bit, but need to reign in my thoughts, so, saved it elsewhere for a review and rewrite. A Lent without writing much has maybe made me too anxious to put thoughts into written word. Anyway, I saved it, and sometime later I will write if you want. Really, if you want. I don't want to impose thoughts on people who don't care, that's for sure. I really have to discipline my time, and writing (and reading) too much, while interesting to me, is is time-consuming, and not prudent use of my time and I must reign it in.
    No problem, I too understand the time and thought needed for responses and the burden it can create so never think that you need to.
    Sometimes a 'like' covers much :-)

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    One a side note @Eliza Thomason do you find our interactions on the forum particularly draining or is it just in general?
    I ask as am beginning to once again think I may be ENXj and know that to a degree I too find it draining and therefor this could fit quasi identical relations between us but then again I guess there's a fear in me that dreads being quoted here by anyone. Maybe I'm attempting not to cause potential conflicts as this wouldn't benefit any of us or to have meandering conversations with no real need.
    Last edited by Shay; 04-20-2016 at 12:42 PM.

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayden View Post
    One a side note @Eliza Thomason do you find our interactions on the forum particularly draining or is it just in general?
    I ask as am beginning to once again think I may be ENFj and know that to a degree I too find it draining and therefor this could fit quasi identical relations between us.
    Interesting. I don't know. I don't think its you, though. This last conversation got me strung out for my very own reasons. Thinking about cultural differences, the value of old cultures yet Christianity being universal.. many thoughts, but I did not want to take the conversation there if that was not your interest. And the Rose Pere in that video, sitting in that chair talking, like a sort of guru - and I thought of dear Mother Angelica, who is very much on my mind and heart this week, likewise on her chair, but on TV in front of millions, and likewise saying whatever came in her mind at the moment. Pontificating you might say. And I compared them. Also I read words of Rose Pere and had a LOT to say on what I read and then backed off, as I did not want to share where there is no interest .. there is a need to check for interest before you go blabbing. And IRL, face to face, you can see if interest is there. Not being clear, I decided to step back for now and let it come to me. Yeah, so I drained myself, all by myself.

    As to type, that's interesting. But gee, well, what about your dear husband? You being his Benefit is rather different from being his Dual. Its a good match though. Does it seem to fit? Romantically, its pretty much the same. Helps to have that "fit". But what about Quadra Values? Do you think you fit in Beta values better than Gamma values? And, look at what Beta's think of Gammas. Do you think you see your Dh that way?*(see below)

    Also Merry and Serious, and Aristocratic vs. Democratic. Some of the differences will really stand out to you, I think. Especially when its a question if you and your husband are different or the same on those.

    As to our being Quasi's, I don't have strong Quasi relations in my life to compare with. My brothers wife is one, but lives far away we've never been able to interact day to day. But I see how the way Beta's view Delta and Delta views Beta fits in that relation. Particularly like this: "Equally mixed groups of Betas and Deltas get along just fine. Nothing great, nothing horrible. Deltas tell their personal views, but they don't feel comfortable enough to get too personal and Betas make general jokes to entertain others but don't feel playful enough to make loud jokes that might offend Deltas." **(see below at bottom)
    ______________________
    *from the linked article: "Betas tend to regard Gamma types as stand-offish and occasionally emotionally hostile, judgmental, and inclined to not seeing the "big picture" in political or work situations, a combination of political nativity and moral stiffness which may end up jeopardizing the Betas' goals. Socially boring, "can't take a joke", vindictive. A group consisting of Betas and Gammas does not mix well. Betas try to make general jokes, but Gammas make extremely personal sharp jokes. Gammas like everyone to take care of their own needs and people are constantly moving and forming small groups but Betas want people to stay together. Gammas feel that Betas are trying to restrict their fun and Betas feel that Gammas are just trying to break the fun group. However, on a personal level Betas and Gammas often get along very well - they discuss politics, religion, nature, etc. They both see the general trends and they compare predictions of what will happen next. Betas view the general emotions motivating the events and Gammas view the objective facts so they might not agree but the conversations are intriguing nonetheless."

    Oh, lets take this further. As a Gamma, you would see me, Delta, like this:

    " Betas tend to regard Delta types as noncommittal in their unwillingness to support goals decided in a group, lack of drive, and ethical self-righteousness. Rather than back group efforts that require vision and concentration of effort, Delta types prefer to just work on personal projects. Equally mixed groups of Betas and Deltas get along just fine. Nothing great, nothing horrible. Deltas tell their personal views, but they don't feel comfortable enough to get too personal and Betas make general jokes to entertain others but don't feel playful enough to make loud jokes that might offend Deltas. But when there's a quadra dominance, things go bad very fast. The Beta group is too loud and impersonal for Deltas and the Delta group is too muted and personal for Betas. Betas want to express their views and opinions very openly, while Deltas want everyone to keep any possibly offensive views to themselves.[<-]"

    but if you are Gamma, you would see me like:

    Gammas tend to perceive Delta types as kindly, well-meaning and creative people, but perhaps too present-focused and lacking ambition with a longer-term perspective, as well as being overly welcoming and forgiving of people whom Gammas may regard as undeserving."
    ________________
    **Hmm, maybe I was doing this with that this religion conversation above. I was writing so much, and I thought, maybe I shouldn't share this much (might not be interesting/welcome - and possibly even offensive, if I were misunderstood, which its easy to be when you are writing). And I feel that way with my EIE sis-in-law. A little restraint, a little reluctance to go too deep because the interest might not be there. And I've seen a little restraint from her - as if she feels cautious, like she better not get to rowdy or bawdy, better behave. And then I feel bad, because I don't want to restrain her and I wonder what I am doing to make her think she can't be all-herself. Yet I don't see her often enough to know if this is just in my head.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    @Eliza Thomason, ^ regarding the above.

    This is assuming that the type husband thinks he is, is correct, which I would not take for granted as overall his belief is we are duals.
    We score in nearly every test as dual types no matter what that pairing is...
    And I do find your assumption overstepping some mark I have for I would not make such assumptions regarding your partner if you were in my shoes.
    As far as quadra descriptions for myself...I see a part of me in all quadras and types, but despite that I always score especially high in intuitive types and agree with this for myself.

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayden View Post

    And I do find your assumption overstepping some mark I have for I would not make such assumptions regarding your partner if you were in my shoes....
    Oh, dear, it sounds like I overstepped in assumptions with the husband Q's?? I did not mean to, at all. So sorry. I thought I was just giving you questions to consider, to help you if you were digging into your type. Not assuming any answers to the questions! Just being a Ne-machine, to be helpful. Thanks for explaining - I totally believe you about the Duality thing - you just know it. (You told me before, and when I wrote this I had not considered the possibility that your husbands type would be different as well, leaving you both Duals. .)

    Also I would guess INxx for you, because you seem like deep waters to me. (and as an "I", I hope you will please understand that I, an "E", write my thoughts as they occur, and they don't always come out neatly, and the possibilities for how they might be perceived aren't all considered, even though I try).
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post

    Well, I hope I explained it above. The LSE example might help. I don't "first, second" it. Its just two parts of who I am. I have in-common with Christians, and in-common with IEEs. I think that's why that spiritual -styles article appealed to me, because there are so many different Catholic spiritualities (ways of practicing your spirtuality), and yes, they suit different kinds of people. Hmm, what would you be, Aylen? Maybe Benedictine - spiritual battles. If I have characterized that correctly. Yes, you need a Benedictine Cross, Aylen. Keeps you safe. Here: Attachment 7335
    (I would be more than happy to send you a blessed one, if you want).

    Interesting that Benedict created order for the monastic orders, still practiced/lived to the letter the world over these 15 centuries - and I see you, like me, tending to be more the "sail needing a rudder". Benedict had a sturdy rudder. And he sailed - so high.

    I moved this here. Hope you don't mind. Thank you. It is lovely. I have always felt a drawn to the creative visionary saints like Hildegard Von Bingen and Catherine (of Siena) and ended up getting Catherine on a quiz.

    I also find St Augustine fascinating.

    Other than the creative visionaries I have no clue what style but they would probably suit me best. You inspired me to look for some quizzes. I found 3, well took more than 3 but some were lame and just kept giving me non-denominational. I then searched for saint personality type quiz and found these.



    Which Patron Saint Has Your Personality Type?

    INFJ - St. Catherine (of Siena)



    Defining Attributes: Complex, Introspective, Caring, Sensitive

    As an INFJ, you strive for peace and seek to develop and guide others. You value self-control and the pursuit of the greater good. A natural born counselor, you live your life with great purpose, and devote yourself to causes you firmly believe in. INFJs are also characterized by their ability to connect with the essence of others - and the innate ability to identify the strengths and weaknesses of individuals.




    http://www.playbuzz.com/williambaggins10/which-patron-saint-has-your-personality-type

    Certificate: Test results

    Which type of Catholic Saint are you?



    For 40 % you are: You are a Hidden Saint!

    Very few people know you and your holiness in this lifetime, but long after you die people will discover your holy life and will seek to emulate you!

    There are perhaps millions of Catholic saints who remain unknown except to God. Those whom we do know include St. Christopher and St. Phiolmena.
    19 % of 10640 Quiz participants had this profile! Profile A

    You could also get this result:
    For 20 % you are: You are a Scholastic Saint!

    You enjoy deepening in your understanding of Catholic beliefs. You also are determined to ensure that the correct beliefs are being taught.

    St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas are two major Scholastic Saints. Profile B

    Or even this one:
    For 20 % you are: You are a Monastic Saint!

    You have a strong prayer life. You believe in the power of prayer and do not hesitate to make use of it!

    St. Benedict, St. Dominic and the Blessed Julian of Norwich and St. Elizabeth of Hungary are but a few key Monastic Saints. Profile C

    Or even this one:
    For 20 % you are: You are a Martyr Saint!

    You are willing to suffer for your beliefs. You believe that the best way of spreading your Faith is through example, by suffering as Christ and the Apostles suffered.

    St. Ignatius of Antioch, St. Polycarp, St. George, St. Jude, St. Edmund Campion and St. Dymphna are but several of the hundreds of Martyr Saints. Profile D

    Or even this one:
    For 0 % you are: You are a Missionary Saint!

    You enjoy spreading the Faith. You are not afraid to discuss your Faith with those who at first might not understand it.

    St. Paul, St.'s Cyril and Methodius and St. Francis Xavier are but a few of many Missionary Saints. Profile E

    Take this quiz: Which type of Catholic Saint are you?



    Which Saint Are You?

    You got: Saint Augustine



    An intellectual giant, you are one of the deepest thinkers of all time. Your confessional style makes you a compelling writer and a persuasive converter of sinners by letting them know we all come from humble beginnings.

    https://quizsocial.com/which-saint-are-you/

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Oh, dear, it sounds like I overstepped in assumptions with the husband Q's?? I did not mean to, at all. So sorry. I thought I was just giving you questions to consider, to help you if you were digging into your type. Not assuming any answers to the questions! Just being a Ne-machine, to be helpful. Thanks for explaining - I totally believe you about the Duality thing - you just know it. (You told me before, and when I wrote this I had not considered the possibility that your husbands type would be different as well, leaving you both Duals. .)

    Also I would guess INxx for you, because you seem like deep waters to me. (and as an "I", I hope you will please understand that I, an "E", write my thoughts as they occur, and they don't always come out neatly, and the possibilities for how they might be perceived aren't all considered, even though I try).
    No problem for I can see @Eliza Thomason has a heart of gold :-)

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayden View Post
    No problem for I can see @Eliza Thomason has a heart of gold :-)
    Aw, thanks. I would not go that far about my heart, which I am too aware is far from perfect, but I do try hard not to offend. God bless you.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Éminence grise mikemex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    I don't get the SJ one. SP makes more sense. (Though none of them are very clear to me.)
    It's because it doesn't make sense.
    [] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)

    You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life.
    - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.

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