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Thread: Process/Result Reinin Dichotomy in Relationships

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    Default Process/Result Reinin Dichotomy in Relationships

    Why are duals the same on the process/result dichotomy? I'm working with someone i type ILI and it seems to me that this contrast could be complementary, but maybe I'm attributing the wrong things to it.

    Examples of process types and result types butting heads over this dichotomy could be illuminating but any sort of input about this is welcome.

    (The term 'relationships' in the title is meant in a broad sense not limited to people who are intimate.)

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    I've know result types who get submerged in something that they like and look like a process type because they have a hard time walking away.

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    Evolutionary types are more inclined to procedure, which involves careful study of details. They are subject to the logic of the development process, which assumes motion from beginning to end and top to bottom.
    Involutionary types rush to obtain a result, frequently neglecting details of the process, which reduces overall quality. Such behavioral patterns lead to a tolerant attitude towards returns and corrections. They don't mind accepting suboptimal, but convenient solutions. They are characterized by backward motion, from end to beginning and from bottom to top.
    Let me illustrate this by an example of reading books. Glancing immediately at the end or bottom part of the page is characteristic for Involutionary types. Reading in reverse order does not deprive them pleasure of novelty, on the contrary, it stimulates their activity in assimilating information. Involution shouldn't be confused merely with impatient skimming ahead, after which one continues smooth reading.
    Sharpness of movement is observed in Involutionary types, along with sporadic shifting from one activity to another. These sudden shifts overtly contrast to the smoothness of Evolutionary types. In traditional Socionics, sharp movements are attributed to Rationality. In my opinion, however, this quality is more determined by Involution. For counterexample, consider the Evolutionary Rational types LSI and EII, whose motions are characteristically soft and smooth. Yet the nature of movement in Involutionary Irrationals SLE and IEE is so sharp that training them smooth movement is practically impossible.
    To clarify the fundamental distinction between Involution and Evolution, the following analogy will help. In biology, catabolism and anabolism are the two sides of organic metabolism. Catabolism—the breakdown of complex compounds to release energy and the elimination of decay products from the organism—corresponds to the role of Involutionary types in group dynamics. Anabolism—the assimilation from the external environment of substances necessary for life and their transformation into more complex compounds—corresponds to the communicative role played by Evolutionary behavior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    Why are duals the same on the process/result dichotomy? I'm working with someone i type ILI and it seems to me that this contrast could be complementary, but maybe I'm attributing the wrong things to it.

    Examples of process types and result types butting heads over this dichotomy could be illuminating but any sort of input about this is welcome.

    (The term 'relationships' in the title is meant in a broad sense not limited to people who are intimate.)
    I know what you mean. With LSI who is my activity and process oriented, I find myself being more process oriented, which I think is good for me. It makes me check myself when my mind is rushing to the end, to the next thing, or asking what's the point of this, and instead makes me more grounded in the moment. That has made me more stable in general, I think. (he's also my partner and companion in most things, so that helps.)

    With SLE there's lots of rushing around and it's OK when we're together but it feels unstable when we part - but maybe it allows for being more cohesively connected psychologically.

    edit: actually tbh it's not "OK" rushing around with an SLE, I love it. I harmonize effortlessly with my dual when we are in the midst of *movement*

    and to give you an answer of opposing dichotomies butting heads -
    I used get really annoyed by this thing my LSI does. Say we're driving somewhere, and we park. I'm out of the car and ready to go. And for some reason, LSI always lingers around for like 5 mins, doing idk what. Maybe checking for his wallet, other accessories, and to me it seems like he's taking forever and it kills my momentum.

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    They have different goals and different processes for such. After time, the wrong dichotomy on this one seems to be going in the wrong direction in life.

    Evolution – Involution
    Trait reflects the inclusion of methods in the creative process:

    1. Evolution ( "+" sign in front of the information element) - an advantage of creative construction; focus on the quality and the process of undertaking ( "it is important to do everything correctly from the very beginning, so you do not have to alter, create problems of endless corrections, lots of hard negotiated amendments, endless search for alternatives, etc.").

    2. Involution ( "-" sign in front of the information element) - an advantage over the design of the reconstruction; focus on high-quality completion of the process ( "just cannot be foreseen, is the most important result," "it is never too late to correct mistakes and look for alternatives").

    Evolutionary ("+") and Involutional ("-") information elements complement each other, in mutual correction and mutual constraint, on each level of the model "A" (in the pair of vertical and horizontal blocking) and reflect the basic laws of their development, in accordance with which Evolutionary (constructive, creative) processes are complemented, corrected and limited by Involutional (reconstructive, destructive), and vice versa. One without the other: evolution without involution, the destruction without creation, alternatives to search without taking constructive, positive decisions (not to be confused with the sign of positivism - negativity) as pointless and destructive, as well as creation without correction and reconstruction, as the search for positive solutions without considering alternatives.

    Evolutionary and Involutionary TRENDS information elements in Socionics and IN SOCIETY.

    The 16 elements of the information stream form the 16 dominant leading programs (EGO - programs), which is programmed in the 16 TIM’s Socion, and develop them in the course of evolution of TIM, constructive society (evolutionary), and reconstructive (involutionally).

    Involutional (design) and evolutional (construction) direction of the elements observe the minus signs ("-") and the plus signs ("+").

    Reconstructive position of Involution: "break - not to build"

    Involutionary needs to look for alternative and, as such, often presents and manifests itself in a position to "break - not to build," (which can withstand the most simple method: "Listen involutionary and do the opposite"). For example, involutional program LII is often manifested in the persistent desire to prove otherwise, contrary to the obvious, (the principle of "do not care what the alternative would be, only…"). Involution properties of chaotic selection of alternatives observed in the program element of the IEE, which often leads to irreversible destructive consequences.

    The design includes the conversion of existing, the making of corrections, achieving reevaluation, and searching for alternatives in the implementation, all of which significantly slows down the process of development in society, although it carries out the necessary preparations for the trial. Therefore, reconstructive (involutional) is to slow down, brake (making you come back) the development elements in socionics and is indicated by a minus sign ("-").

    Constructive (Evolutionary) direction information element involves its effective and intensive development in view of the results achieved using the most advanced tools, which greatly speeds up the development process. Therefore, the structural (Evolutionary) development elements in socionics are indicated by a plus sign ("+").

    For example:
    Before effectively (methodically) developing the capacity (the prerogative of the evolutionary aspect of intuition of potentials, +Ne) is the ability to identify the need and find (the prerogative of the aspects of involutional intuition of potentials, -Ne).

    Before effectively developing and learning the environment, the territory, and the living space (evolutionary aspect of sense of sensations, +Si), this area still need to find an environmental investigation (involutionary aspect of sensory sensations, -Si) in which the function is to search for ecological alternatives, alternative living spaces, alternative living conditions, etc.

    Before efficiently distributing any ideology or shaping public opinion (the problem of the evolutionary aspect of the ethics of emotions, +Fe), you need to create a social mood, an alternative to the existing, anger public masses, to sow panic and create a stir, spread the discrediting rumors come up with sharply criticized the existing ideology, etc. (involutional ethics of emotions, -Fe).

    Before distributing the rights and privileges at all levels of the hierarchy (the evolutionary aspect structural logic, +Ti), you need to install the same fair treatment at each of its levels, carefully verifying and correcting the distribution of rights and responsibilities (the involutionary aspect structural logic, -Ti).

    Before you fill out personal time work or urgent matters (aspect evolutionary intuition of time, +Ni), you need to find time for such cases, to release it, separated from the time required for the maintenance of vital processes, to restore vitality and emotional tone, sleep, food, holiday (aspect involutionary intuition of time, -Ni).

    Before you extend power and influence onto the surrounding systems and facilities (the problem of the evolutionary aspect of volitional sensing, +Se), you need to grab and retain power in its system, to concentrate, to centralize power in his hands (involutionary aspect of volitional sensing, -Se).

    Before you bring a person to moral perfection (the prerogative of the evolutionary aspect of the ethics of relations, +Fi), you need to take it with the necessary ethical standards, identify gaps, eradicate vices, etc. to optimize the process to prepare for the future of moral perfection (involutional ethics of relations, -Fi).

    Before improve methods and technologies (the prerogative of the evolutionary aspect of the business logic, +Te), you need to optimize them and review, revise, reject outdated, look for better alternatives (involutionary aspect of business logic, -Te).

    In this regard, the signs "+" or "-" are treated more as a way of expanding the field of information involutional and evolutional aspects, as ways of development and transformation of living space. The sign (+) - involves the expansion of the aspect of the field due to the accumulation of benefits and concentration of information and expertise building. The sign (-) involves the development of an information field due to the shortfall of this aspect in society, as well as expansion of it due to rethinking or re-evaluation of existing (in the field or in the surrounding area) values. In connection with the "minus" are considered as aspects of alternative corrective program search and selection of alternative solutions, analysis and processing program adverse experiences.

    Limits of development trends of information aspects of society due to the potential environmental, biological and historical conditions of its development, environmental viability criteria, as a result of which the over-development of certain aspects in the society becomes destructive to society - leads to its degradation, decay, decline.

    Limits the development of information society in the aspects and individually are also subject to the environmental viability criteria, identified and set out in the so-called principle of "Occam's Razor", according to which one should not invest more and more effort, where you can get smaller. Based on this principle, a mutual correction and mutual audit evolution and involution aspects in models of development in society and the turnover in the quadra.

    Accordingly, there is a need to switch directions, and the aspect of the field from the involutionary to the evolutionary. Infinitely long "hang" on the involutionary or evolutionary lines leading to the crisis and the subsequent destruction of society, to the chaos of the information field in it. So, for example, in an effort to simplify (involutionary aspect) there is a risk of degradation (individual, society, the idea), and the endless search for randomly put forward alternatives, instead of a real application the optimal ones, as dangerous as widespread initiative (evolutionary aspect) adventure insufficiently thought-out projects.

    Evolution (programming, EGO and leading element of TIM - evolution), having exhausted its constructive potential of the project, it considers it inappropriate to continue and may choose to further its development of other (also very promising) undertakings. Because of this, it seems that evolutionary is more focused on the initiative and process.

    Involution (programming, EGO and leading element of TIM - involution), having exhausted its potential reconstructive project, considers it inexpedient continuation of alternative means of searching and finalizing the selection of the best tools and techniques. (Do not complete the work, he can not, because it started it would not be complete reconstruction - "not worth breaking, if you can not recover,") Because of this, it seems that involutional is more focused on the completion and results.

    Evolution and involution AS dyadic TRAIT

    Evolution and involution - derived from the name of the trait: evolution and involution introduced by VV Gulenko (in the mid 90-ies.) Instead of the previous name of the same sign, "left / right", the entered Aushra Augustinovichute in the "Theory of signs Reinin".

    LEFT (Evolutional) - these are the dyad has "+" sign in the model where a leading function (left aspect of the ego level).
    RIGHT (Involutional) - those dyads in which the creative function model (right aspect of the ego level) has a "+" sign, and the left - a software aspect is the sign "-". In the future, the name of the evolution / involution changed on the process / results.

    Evolutional - because of their orientation program at the initiative and process - became known as the Process; Involutional - because of their programmatic orientation of the correction in the process, and the completion of its reconstruction - were called Results.

    “Seizing” in the process of selecting alternatives without the adoption of effective solutions (process for the process without entering the result) - a pathological deviation from the norm, "crash" program attribute involution. (Example: carried away by the selection of possibilistic alternatives in the process of self-critically ill six-month child, mother-IEE four days sat chatting, discussing on the forum folk remedies treat the symptoms described by her not getting timely medical aid for those four days, without waiting for the result of its decision and. subsequent effective action, the child died. The mother-IEE condemned for failure to render assistance to terminally ill child.)

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    Forget about Reinin's dichotomies. They are baseless fantasy and not classic socionics.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Forget about Reinin's dichotomies. They are baseless fantasy and not classic socionics.
    So you don't study procedure?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Forget about Reinin's dichotomies. They are baseless fantasy and not classic socionics.
    Well, all mine match, as do those for people close to me that I've typed. Did them all via blind test too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Forget about Reinin's dichotomies. They are baseless fantasy and not classic socionics.
    A theory that cannot evolve as new information, and ways to interpret and expand on the original information, comes along, is doomed to go extinct. A lot of the Russian translations are so outdated, and sexist, that my grandma would even give them some kind of life support. Part of the confusion when reading them comes from the poor machine translation to English which many have relied on.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I've know result types who get submerged in something that they like and look like a process type because they have a hard time walking away.
    I can get immersed in the process of something I enjoy but that doesn't mean I don't have my eye on the "prize" the whole time.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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