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Thread: Tritype Variant question

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    Default Tritype Variant question

    I have read that you have a different variant for each of the types in your tritype (so that each of the three tritypes are assigned), and this is in line with your variant ordering for you main enneageam type (e.g. if I believe myself to be 9w1-4w5-6w5, and a 9w1 Sp/So, then I would be 9w1 Sp, 4w5 So, 6w5 Sx).

    Is this correct? (Regardless of whether or not it is, or alernatively, if it is disputed, it would be rather nebulous territory, at least in terms of documentation/description, and ability to determine them in yourself. I ask because I was wondering about how useful it would be to read stacking variants of enneagram types that I believe could possibly be a secondary or tertiary element in my tritype).

    Also, a second, unrelated question: Is it normal to declare whether or not you are phobic or counterphobic if you are of the enneagram 6 type, or is that considered something of a taboo or eyebrow-raising thing to do? (Because it might be highly contentious and essentially a highly subjective appraisal of your mental state & interactions with others, whether favourable or unfavourable). I ask as someone who considers themselves to be a 6 in their tritype, and of the phobic variety! (This may thus be especially inconsequential!).
    EII-Ne
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    I made a post about how I see this but I have to find it. A keyword to search doesn't even come to me in the moment.

    I do see sx as my 4, sp as my 5 and so as my 9. I am pretty sure that was what I concluded in the post or that was the gist of it but I probably made some kind of production of it at the time since it was like a sudden epiphany, I think. Now I want to find it.

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    The theory I've read, loosely paraphrased, says that as the instincts 'operate at a more primitive level than the enneatype', the stacking will underpin your tritype. That implies that you can split a stacking along your tritype, as Aylen did, but you can't spread different stackings on one enneatype, because the enneatype would not underlie the stacking(s).
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    6w5 So <- lol
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Nine With a 1 Wing
    Tend to have been "model children." Instinctively worked to please their parents by being virtuous, orderly, and little trouble. When awakened, they have great moral authority plus good-hearted peacemaking tendencies. Often have a sense of mission, public or private, that involves working hard for the welfare of everyone they are committed to. Principled expression of love. Desire to contribute, do little harm. May be well-liked, modest, endearing, gentle yet firm. Some have great grace and composure with bursts of spontaneity and sweetness. Elegant simplicity.

    When entranced, they tend to be self-neglectful. May go passively dead and operate from a dubious, fractured morality. Dutiful to what they shouldn't be. Play the good child, disappear into contexts, settle for being overlooked or just partly recognized. Passive tolerance of absurd or damaging situations. One-sided relationships where the Nine gives too much. Rationalize, minimize, tell themselves they had a great childhood, everything's fine. Placid numbness creeps over them. Intolerance of their own emotions. Gradually deaden their soul.

    Real-Life Nines With a 1 Wing: Annette Bening, Tony Bennett, Warren Christopher, Connie Chung, The Dalai Lama, Annette Funi-cello, Mahatma Gandhi, Charles Grodin, Patty Hearst, Audrey Hepburn, Anjelica Huston, Grace Kelly, Nancy Kerrigan, Martin Sheen, James Stewart.

    Movie Nines With a 1 Wing: Tom Cruise, Risky Business; Annette Funicello, Back To The Beach; Chief Dan George, Little Big Man; Graham Greene, Dances With Wolves; Audrey Hepburn, Robin And Marian; Eva Marie Saint, Nothing In Common; Wallace Shawn, My Dinner With Andre; Tom Skerritt, The Turning Point; Harry Dean Stanton, Paris, Texas; Donald Sutherland, Ordinary People; Joanne Woodward, Mr. And Mrs. Bridge.

    Self-Preservation
    Preoccupied with physical comfort, maintaining habits and satisfying appetites. The image of the lazy couch potato goes with this subtype. Strategy for getting along is to ask as little of life as possible. Can have a love of the minimal and enjoy the repetition of known routines. Distract themselves with pleasant domestic activities. Live conservatively. Consume food and drink for anaesthesia. May have large appetites, drug addictions, be physically slow moving.

    Many good movie examples including Gary Farmer, Powwow Highway; Albert Finney, Rich In Love; Lillian Gish, The Whales Of August; Elliott Gould, Little Murders; William Hurt, The Accidental Tourist; Wallace Shawn, My Dinner With Andre.

    • Or Alternatively:

     
    Social
    Social Nines tend to gravitate toward groups and then have conflicts about joining or staying apart. Can enjoy group energy and interests but may be also aware of the group's expectations. These the Nine will both play along with and resist.

    When immersed in a group, social Nines can lose themselves, trying to become all things to all people. Gregarious but may start to resist being too heavily influenced, to compensate for their sense of lost identity. Can sometimes resent how the group doesn't really see them. May fixate on what others think of them. Or resent the group and make fun of it. Some social Nines stay basically uninvolved but hang out at the group's edge. Frequently there's lots of activity. May get caught up in roles - a stronger connection to 3 goes with this subtype.

    Movie examples include: Jeff Bridges, Texasville; Sean Connery, The Russia House; Tom Cruise, Risky Business; Imelda Staunton, Antonia And Jane. Bill Clinton would be a real-life social Nine.


    Or Alternatively:
     
    One With a 9 Wing
    Ones with this wing can have an aura of 9-like calm although eruptions of temper are possible. Often have a detached quality and can be mistaken for Fives. Tendency to formulate and embrace principles that have little human content, but this is also their strength. When awakened, may be objective and balanced, cool and moderate in their evaluations. More entranced, might have perfectionistic expectations that are not humanly possible to meet. May hold social or political opinions that are supremely logical but ultimately heartless and draconian. The rules come first no matter what. Can be merciless or unwittingly cruel.
    Often a little colorless in their personal appearance. Many Ones with this wing are plain dressers, preferring functional clothing that is appropriate to context but not flashy. The emphasis on function may extend to their general lifestyle. Practicality is highly valued.

    Real-Life Ones With a 9 Wing: The culture of the Amish, David Brower, Angela Davis, Michael Dukakis, Harrison Ford, Ralph Nader, John Cardinal O'Connor, Colin Powell, the culture of the Puritans, Yitzhak Rabin, Vanessa Redgrave, Bernard Shaw.

    Movie Ones With a 9 Wing: Henry Fonda, On Golden Pond; Harrison Ford, The Mosquito Coast; Alec Guinness, The Bridge On The River Kwai; Katharine Hepburn, Rooster Cogburn; Anthony Hopkins, The Remains Of The Day; Jack Lemmon, Missing; Lilia Skala, Lillies Of The Field; Tom Skerritt, A River Runs Through It.

    Self-Preservation
    Characterized by a tendency towards worry and negative anticipation, especially as it relates to material well-being. Can seem a little like Sixes. They fret about how to avoid making mistakes that could jeopardize survival. Petty, finicky quality; could seem "penny-wise and pound-foolish." Sense of being undeserving or inadequate - try to compensate with worry. As a parent or friend, they might be critical and nurturing by turns, wanting to protect you from the same negative consequences they worry about.

    Self-preservation Ones are not plentiful in movies, but some good examples are Hector Alterio in The Official Story, Melvyn Douglas in I Never Sang For My Father, Joel McCrea in Ride The High Country, and Jessica Tandy in Driving Miss Daisy.

    Or Alternatively:
     
    Social
    Social subtype Ones are everywhere in the movies, probably because they create dramatic friction. Characterized by a preoccupation with rules and how they should apply to (other) people's behavior. Tend to moralize and apply old standards inflexibly to each new situation.

    Believe they are representatives of a larger social order or tradition. They're not, of course - acting as if they represent the rules is their psychological defense. Usually had great uncertainty in childhood, at least one undependable parent. Made themselves rigid to feel strong, aligned with the rules to contain their anxiety. Tend to depersonalize their own feelings, hope to be above criticism.

    Social Ones can have either wing, though a 9 wing brings rules that are more abstract and inhuman-sounding. Examples in the movies include Glenn Close in The World According To Garp, Louise Fletcher in One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Alec Guinness in The Bridge On The River Kwai, Raul Julia in Kiss Of The Spider Woman, Joan Plowright in Enchanted April, Jack Lemmon in Missing, Katharine Hepburn in Rooster Cogburn.


    http://www.thechangeworks.com/ennpri...#anchor2041233
    http://www.thechangeworks.com/ennpri...l#anchor101902
    EII-Ne
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    Four With a 5 Wing
    Healthy side of this wing brings a withdrawn, complex creativity. May be somewhat intellectual but have exceptional depth of feeling and insight. Very much their own person; original and idiosyncratic. Have a spiritual and aesthetic openness. Will find multiple levels of meaning to most events. May have a strong need and ability to pour themselves into artistic creations. Loners; can seem enigmatic and hard to read. Externally reserved and internally resonant. When they open up it can be sudden and total.

    When entranced or defensive, Fours with a 5 wing can easily feel alienated and depressed. Many have a sense of not belonging, of being from another planet. Can get lost in their own process, drown in their own ocean. Whiny - tend to ruminate and relive past experience. Prone to the emotion of shame. Air of sullen, withdrawn disappointment. May live within a private mythology of pain and loss. Can get deeply morbid and fall in love with death.

    Real-Life Fours With a 5 Wing: Diane Arbus, Marlon Brando, Richard Brautigan, Jackson Browne, Kurt Cobain, Leonard Cohen, Isak Dinesen, Pink Floyd, Harvey Keitel, Philip Larkin, Thomas Merton, Sylvia Plath, Edgar Allen Poe, Arthur Rimbaud, Anne Sexton, James Taylor, Vincent van Gogh, Virginia Woolf, Neil Young.

    Movie Fours With a 5 Wing: David Andrews, Cherry 2000; Albert Finney, The Playboys; Claude Rains, The Phantom Of The Opera; Winona Ryder, Beetlejuice; Campbell Scott, Dying Young; Meryl Streep, The French Lieutenant's Woman, Out Of Africa, Plenty.

    Social
    Prone to shame because they compare themselves with the "normal" world around them. Can be highly self-critical and feel ashamed for their deviance from imagined group norms. Sensitive to criticism. May romanticize their defects but feel bad about themselves anyway.

    If they have a 3 wing, may cover their shame with charm. Can also seek status or be driven to achieve to get revenge against those who once laughed at them (Danny DeVito, Batman Returns). With a 5 wing, can grow antisocial and depressed, bearing their shame in solitude (Meryl Streep in The French Lieutenant's Woman).

    • Or Alternatively:

     
    Self-Preservation
    People with this theme are often advocates of risk. Can be reckless, court disaster or just flirt lightly with loss. Take chances to stir up emotional intensity, play out melodrama or to get attention. Can have a desire to punish other through hurting themselves. The logic is, "If I die then they'll be sorry and finally appreciate me."

    Can seem like counterphobic Sixes in their behavior. With a 3 wing this subtype is more flamboyant and makes a show of their daring. With a 5 wing they grow more sullen and self-punishing.

    Movie examples include: Nicolas Cage, Moonstruck; Meryl Streep, Out Of Africa; Judy Davis, Impromptu.


    http://www.thechangeworks.com/ennpri...#anchor1995402
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

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    Six With a 5 Wing
    Sixes with a 5 wing are generally introverted and somewhat intellectual. When healthy, they often have many realms of interest as well as surprising competencies and skills. May have an original and idiosyncratic point of view. Can be bookish; some are interested in history or feel rooted in the past or related to a long tradition. Also good at predicting the future. May test potential friends for a long time but once you're in, you're in - a friend for life.

    When more entranced, they may project a willed remoteness. Have a "tip of the iceberg" quality - they show little but you sense hidden dimensions, intensity and activity. Tension between needing to be seen and withdrawing for protection. Might act arrogant or cryptic or cynical when afraid.

    When phobic, can be diplomatic and say things without saying them. Entranced counterphobics are either cool and loners or argumentative, tending towards violence. Can brood over injustices to them, entertain conspiracy theories, spend time alone building cases. Paranoia in private. May like secretive behind-the-scenes group activity. Sneaky vengeance, passive/aggressive toward others, self-attacking and self-destructive at home.

    Real-Life Sixes With a 5 Wing: Warren Beatty, J. Edgar Hoover, Tommy Lee Jones, J. Krishnamurti, Spike Lee, Steve McQueen, Richard Nixon, Chuck Norris, Lee Harvey Oswald, Anthony Perkins, Robert Redford, Janet Reno, Steven Seagal, James Spader.

    Movie Sixes With a 5 Wing: Keir Dullea, David And Lisa; Gene Hackman, I Never Sang For My Father; Rock Hudson, Send Me No Flowers; Wendy Hughes, Lonely Hearts; Ben Kingsley, Pascali's Island; Martin Landau, Crimes And Misdemeanors; Sheila McCarthy, I've Heard The Mermaids Singing; Sam Neill, The Piano; Anthony Perkins, Psycho; Michelle Pfeiffer, Frankie And Johnny; James Spader, Bad Influence; John Turturro, Barton Fink; Henry Winkler, Night Shift.

    Intimate
    Sixes with this subtype tend to act strong or seductive when insecure. They are much more likely to be counterphobic, especially the men. May seem like Eights, take risks, talk tough. Act powerful and in control at the times when they feel most frightened. Worry about looking weak, having their fears show. May act arrogant but aren't really. Some study martial arts or seek a way of life that makes them strong.

    Beauty is another focus; trying to seem attractive so as to contain fear, get approval, and distract others. May consciously hide behind a seductive mask. Unlike Threes, Sixes know they are hiding. Can act cool and patrician or be flirty. Some have a focus on aesthetics. This subtype often has a stronger connection to the vanity of 3.

    Movie examples include: Humphrey Bogart, Treasure Of The Sierra Madre; Holly Hunter, Broadcast News; Anjelica Huston, The Grifters; Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio, Class Action; Nick Nolte, The Prince Of Tides; Janine Turner, Northern Exposure. In Batman Returns, Michelle Pfeiffer turns from a meek phobic Six into a fiesty counterphobic Six. When phobic, she is a social subtype (see below). Her alter ego, the counterphobic Catwoman, is an intimate subtype.

    http://www.thechangeworks.com/ennpri...nn9styls2.html
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

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    The 6 Sx variant description (for my presumed third part of my tritype) seems rather alien to me, although as a peripheral description, it may not be problematic (but that perhaps shows the limits of the theory & descriptions, and essentially gives me something that could be a random "Forer effect" profile.

    The 4 Sx description (presuming that 4 is a core part of my tritype) does not especially feel like me either: perhaps even less so. A possibility might be to replace the 6w5 with 5 Sx (w4 or w6 I cannot say), with it probably remaining in the third spot of my tritype at least until I can have the patience to examine the topic again.
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    I've never heard of the theory working that way. I think the instinctual variants kind of flavor the whole of the type. That being said, I'm no expert in any of this.

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    (Alternative enenagram tritype for me (hypothesised, but I'm also interested in exploring if there is an large Fore effect element)

    1. Five With a 4 Wing
    The difference between the 4 wing and the 6 wing in Fives is like the difference between Art and Science. 4 wing brings an abstract, intuitive cast of thought, as though the Five were thinking in geometric shapes instead of words or realistic images. May be talented artistically and inhabit moods like Fours do. Combine intellectual and emotional imagination. Enjoy the realm of philosophy and beautiful constructs of thought. The marriage of mental perspective and aesthetics is the best of life for them.

    When more defensive may seem a little ghostly, have a whisper in their voice. Fluctuate between impersonal withdrawal and bursts of friendly caring. Can get floaty and abstract. Act like they're inside a bubble, sometimes with an air of implicit superiority. Cliché of the "absentminded professor" applies especially to Fives with this wing.

    Environmentally sensitive and subject at times to total overwhelm. Touchy about criticism. Can be slow to recover from traumatic events. Melancholy isolation and bleak existential depression are possible pitfalls.

    Real-Life Fives With a 4 Wing: Laurie Anderson, Samuel Beckett, Paul Bowles, Tim Burton, David Byrne, Agatha Christie, Daniel Day-Lewis, T.S. Eliot, Albert Einstein, Jeremy Irons, Philip Kaufman, Gary Larson, George Lucas, David Lynch, Peter Matthiessen, Ian McEwan, Thelonious Monk, Georgia O'Keefe,

    Movie Fives With a 4 Wing: Jeff Bridges, The Fabulous Baker Boys; Kerry Fox, An Angel At My Table; Glenda Jackson, Turtle Diary; Gena Rowlands, Another Woman; Dean Stockwell, Tucker - A Man And His Dream.

    Self-Preservation
    Chief defensive tendency is to withdraw. Sensitive to feeling saturated by the world, Fives with this subtype lose their sense of privacy easily. Can feel knocked over by people's expectations. In isolation they refind their lost sense of balance and build up to the next round of social stresses. More alienated than the other subtypes. May hide in books, live alone or need their own room where they can close themselves off. Take little from others. Sometimes thin. Likely to hoard time and space. Have solitary hobbies and interests, seek comfort and solace alone.

    Examples include: Kerry Fox, An Angel At My Table; Gena Rowlands, Another Woman; Robin Williams, Awakenings.

    • Or Alternatively:

     
    Social
    Social Fives connect with groups of like-minded people. Enjoy living in the flow of a group interest, sharing knowledge and affiliations. May prefer specialized or esoteric areas of knowledge that exclude all but the initiated. Could live in high society, know the "right" people, belong to the best clubs. Might enjoy speaking a professional language that few people understand. Can be quite friendly but, at times, terrific snobs. Romanticize secret elitist group membership; concerned with titles, degrees, credentials, etc. Realm of academia.

    Peter O'Toole in Goodbye, Mr. Chips is a good movie example. Also, Anthony Hopkins in 84 Charing Cross Road.

    http://www.thechangeworks.com/ennpri...#anchor1998933

    2. Four With a 5 Wing
    Healthy side of this wing brings a withdrawn, complex creativity. May be somewhat intellectual but have exceptional depth of feeling and insight. Very much their own person; original and idiosyncratic. Have a spiritual and aesthetic openness. Will find multiple levels of meaning to most events. May have a strong need and ability to pour themselves into artistic creations. Loners; can seem enigmatic and hard to read. Externally reserved and internally resonant. When they open up it can be sudden and total.

    When entranced or defensive, Fours with a 5 wing can easily feel alienated and depressed. Many have a sense of not belonging, of being from another planet. Can get lost in their own process, drown in their own ocean. Whiny - tend to ruminate and relive past experience. Prone to the emotion of shame. Air of sullen, withdrawn disappointment. May live within a private mythology of pain and loss. Can get deeply morbid and fall in love with death.

    Real-Life Fours With a 5 Wing: Diane Arbus, Marlon Brando, Richard Brautigan, Jackson Browne, Kurt Cobain, Leonard Cohen, Isak Dinesen, Pink Floyd, Harvey Keitel, Philip Larkin, Thomas Merton, Sylvia Plath, Edgar Allen Poe, Arthur Rimbaud, Anne Sexton, James Taylor, Vincent van Gogh, Virginia Woolf, Neil Young.

    Movie Fours With a 5 Wing: David Andrews, Cherry 2000; Albert Finney, The Playboys; Claude Rains, The Phantom Of The Opera; Winona Ryder, Beetlejuice; Campbell Scott, Dying Young; Meryl Streep, The French Lieutenant's Woman, Out Of Africa, Plenty.

    Social
    Prone to shame because they compare themselves with the "normal" world around them. Can be highly self-critical and feel ashamed for their deviance from imagined group norms. Sensitive to criticism. May romanticize their defects but feel bad about themselves anyway.

    If they have a 3 wing, may cover their shame with charm. Can also seek status or be driven to achieve to get revenge against those who once laughed at them (Danny DeVito, Batman Returns). With a 5 wing, can grow antisocial and depressed, bearing their shame in solitude (Meryl Streep in The French Lieutenant's Woman).

    • Or Alternatively:

     
    Self-Preservation
    People with this theme are often advocates of risk. Can be reckless, court disaster or just flirt lightly with loss. Take chances to stir up emotional intensity, play out melodrama or to get attention. Can have a desire to punish other through hurting themselves. The logic is, "If I die then they'll be sorry and finally appreciate me."

    Can seem like counterphobic Sixes in their behavior. With a 3 wing this subtype is more flamboyant and makes a show of their daring. With a 5 wing they grow more sullen and self-punishing.

    Movie examples include: Nicolas Cage, Moonstruck; Meryl Streep, Out Of Africa; Judy Davis, Impromptu.


    http://www.thechangeworks.com/ennpri...#anchor1995402

    3. One With a 2 Wing
    This wing generally brings more interpersonal warmth. High standards are tempered by humanism. May understand and partly forgive humanity for not doing its best. Work hard to improve the conditions of others, sacrificing time and energy to do good works.

    When more entranced, can be volatile and self-righteous. Authoritarian inflation and moral vanity on the low side. Can give scolding lectures or display a kind of touchy emotionalism. "Do as I say, not as I do" attitudes possible. Hypocrisy likely because the person is so convinced they have moral good intentions. Overlook inconsistencies in their own behavior. Dependency in relationships. Far more likely to be a jealous intimate subtype than Ones with a 9 wing.

    Real-Life Ones With a 2 Wing: Jane Alexander, William Bennett, John Bradshaw, Susan Brownmiller, Hillary Clinton, Barry Goldwater, Lillian Hellman, Glenda Jackson, Miss Manners, Gregory Peck, H. Ross Perot, Sidney Poitier, Marilyn Quayle, Meryl Streep, Joanne Woodward.

    Movie Ones With a 2 Wing: Norma Aleandro, The Official Story; Glenn Close, The World According To Garp; Katharine Hepburn, Summertime; Glenda Jackson, House Calls; Gregory Peck, To Kill A Mockingbird; Joan Plowright, Enchanted April; Sam Waterston, The Killing Fields.

    Intimate
    May be preoccupied with their romantic partner. Have high expectations based on having idealized their beloved. Their partner is supposed to be perfect man or woman. One's reaction is jealous judgment if their beloved acts in less-than-ideal ways. Jealous Ones may drive partners away with endless criticism.
    Can have a dependent tendency related to the low side of 2. Most intimate Ones have a 2 wing. Also there's a melancholy yearning and fear of abandonment fueling the One's criticism. Connection to the low side of 4.

    I found very few intimate Ones in movies but Geraldine Page in The Beguiled displays some of this theme. In The Official Story, Hector Alterio's basic subtype is self-preservation but he has eruptions of jealousy that are based on his high expectations of his wife. Also Cliff Robertson shows this theme to a degree in the movie Picnic.
    http://www.thechangeworks.com/ennpri...l#anchor101902
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    Four With a 5 Wing
    Healthy side of this wing brings a withdrawn, complex creativity. May be somewhat intellectual but have exceptional depth of feeling and insight. Very much their own person; original and idiosyncratic. Have a spiritual and aesthetic openness. Will find multiple levels of meaning to most events. May have a strong need and ability to pour themselves into artistic creations. Loners; can seem enigmatic and hard to read. Externally reserved and internally resonant. When they open up it can be sudden and total.

    When entranced or defensive, Fours with a 5 wing can easily feel alienated and depressed. Many have a sense of not belonging, of being from another planet. Can get lost in their own process, drown in their own ocean. Whiny - tend to ruminate and relive past experience. Prone to the emotion of shame. Air of sullen, withdrawn disappointment. May live within a private mythology of pain and loss. Can get deeply morbid and fall in love with death.

    Real-Life Fours With a 5 Wing: Diane Arbus, Marlon Brando, Richard Brautigan, Jackson Browne, Kurt Cobain, Leonard Cohen, Isak Dinesen, Pink Floyd, Harvey Keitel, Philip Larkin, Thomas Merton, Sylvia Plath, Edgar Allen Poe, Arthur Rimbaud, Anne Sexton, James Taylor, Vincent van Gogh, Virginia Woolf, Neil Young.

    Movie Fours With a 5 Wing: David Andrews, Cherry 2000; Albert Finney, The Playboys; Claude Rains, The Phantom Of The Opera; Winona Ryder, Beetlejuice; Campbell Scott, Dying Young; Meryl Streep, The French Lieutenant's Woman, Out Of Africa, Plenty.

    Social
    Prone to shame because they compare themselves with the "normal" world around them. Can be highly self-critical and feel ashamed for their deviance from imagined group norms. Sensitive to criticism. May romanticize their defects but feel bad about themselves anyway.

    If they have a 3 wing, may cover their shame with charm. Can also seek status or be driven to achieve to get revenge against those who once laughed at them (Danny DeVito, Batman Returns). With a 5 wing, can grow antisocial and depressed, bearing their shame in solitude (Meryl Streep in The French Lieutenant's Woman).

    • Or Alternatively:

     
    Self-Preservation
    People with this theme are often advocates of risk. Can be reckless, court disaster or just flirt lightly with loss. Take chances to stir up emotional intensity, play out melodrama or to get attention. Can have a desire to punish other through hurting themselves. The logic is, "If I die then they'll be sorry and finally appreciate me."

    Can seem like counterphobic Sixes in their behavior. With a 3 wing this subtype is more flamboyant and makes a show of their daring. With a 5 wing they grow more sullen and self-punishing.

    Movie examples include: Nicolas Cage, Moonstruck; Meryl Streep, Out Of Africa; Judy Davis, Impromptu.


    http://www.thechangeworks.com/ennpri...#anchor1995402
    I am going through the site and these are the parts I can relate to most even though they almost seem contradictory at times.

    Four With a 5 Wing
    Healthy side of this wing brings a withdrawn, complex creativity. May be somewhat intellectual but have exceptional depth of feeling and insight. Very much their own person; original and idiosyncratic. Have a spiritual and aesthetic openness. Will find multiple levels of meaning to most events. May have a strong need and ability to pour themselves into artistic creations. Loners; can seem enigmatic and hard to read. Externally reserved and internally resonant. When they open up it can be sudden and total.

    When entranced or defensive, Fours with a 5 wing can easily feel alienated and depressed. Many have a sense of not belonging, of being from another planet. Can get lost in their own process, drown in their own ocean. Whiny - tend to ruminate and relive past experience. Prone to the emotion of shame. Air of sullen, withdrawn disappointment. May live within a private mythology of pain and loss. Can get deeply morbid and fall in love with death.

    SUBTYPE THEMES

    Intimate

    Fours with this theme tend to be highly competitive in close relationships but also more generally. With a mate they are prone to jealousy. Want to be the most important person in mate's life. Could be jealous of a partner's past relationships, maybe want to be the only person the partner has ever loved. Related to the dependent side of 2.


    Fives - Fine Distinctions

    Five With a 4 Wing
    The difference between the 4 wing and the 6 wing in Fives is like the difference between Art and Science. 4 wing brings an abstract, intuitive cast of thought, as though the Five were thinking in geometric shapes instead of words or realistic images. May be talented artistically and inhabit moods like Fours do. Combine intellectual and emotional imagination. Enjoy the realm of philosophy and beautiful constructs of thought. The marriage of mental perspective and aesthetics is the best of life for them.

    When more defensive may seem a little ghostly, have a whisper in their voice. Fluctuate between impersonal withdrawal and bursts of friendly caring. Can get floaty and abstract. Act like they're inside a bubble, sometimes with an air of implicit superiority. Cliché of the "absentminded professor" applies especially to Fives with this wing.

    Environmentally sensitive and subject at times to total overwhelm. Touchy about criticism. Can be slow to recover from traumatic events. Melancholy isolation and bleak existential depression are possible pitfalls.

    SUBTYPE THEMES

    Self-Preservation
    Chief defensive tendency is to withdraw. Sensitive to feeling saturated by the world, Fives with this subtype lose their sense of privacy easily. Can feel knocked over by people's expectations. In isolation they refind their lost sense of balance and build up to the next round of social stresses. More alienated than the other subtypes. May hide in books, live alone or need their own room where they can close themselves off. Take little from others. Sometimes thin. Likely to hoard time and space. Have solitary hobbies and interests, seek comfort and solace alone.
    I can't decide if the 9 in my tritype has a 1 or 8 wing. I was not the model child, quite the opposite. That was my middle sister, who happens to be a core 9. I got 4w5, 5w4, 9w8 on the tritype test a couple of times.

    Nines - Fine Distinctions

    Nine With an 8 Wing
    Awakened Nines with an 8 wing have a modest, steady, receptive core. They are charged by the dynamism of 8 - when focused on goals they often have great force of will. Get things done, make good leaders. May have an animal magnetism of which they are only partly aware. Can seem highly centered, take what they do seriously but remain unimpressed with themselves. 8 wing can bring a strong internal sense of direction. Relatively fearless and highly intuitive. Generally not intellectual unless they have it in their background.


    When more entranced, they manifest the contradictions of the two styles expressing them in sequence. Could be passively amiable like a Nine and then turn horribly blunt like an 8. One moment they are opinionated or nasty, next moment kindly and supportive. Often don't hear their voices when angry. Can have a sharp, grating edge. May be slow to anger and then explode. Or angry but don't know it; may confuse being assertive with being rude. Placidly callous - both styles support numbness. Tactless and indiscriminate and indiscreet. May be unwittingly disloyal, spilling everyone's secrets. Sexual confusion, sometimes they are driven by lust.


    or

    Nine With a 1 Wing
    Tend to have been "model children." Instinctively worked to please their parents by being virtuous, orderly, and little trouble. When awakened, they have great moral authority plus good-hearted peacemaking tendencies. Often have a sense of mission, public or private, that involves working hard for the welfare of everyone they are committed to. Principled expression of love. Desire to contribute, do little harm. May be well-liked, modest, endearing, gentle yet firm. Some have great grace and composure with bursts of spontaneity and sweetness. Elegant simplicity.


    When entranced, they tend to be self-neglectful. May go passively dead and operate from a dubious, fractured morality. Dutiful to what they shouldn't be. Play the good child, disappear into contexts, settle for being overlooked or just partly recognized. Passive tolerance of absurd or damaging situations. One-sided relationships where the Nine gives too much. Rationalize, minimize, tell themselves they had a great childhood, everything's fine. Placid numbness creeps over them. Intolerance of their own emotions. Gradually deaden their soul.

    SUBTYPE THEMES

    Social
    Social Nines tend to gravitate toward groups and then have conflicts about joining or staying apart. Can enjoy group energy and interests but may be also aware of the group's expectations. These the Nine will both play along with and resist.

    When immersed in a group, social Nines can lose themselves, trying to become all things to all people. Gregarious but may start to resist being too heavily influenced, to compensate for their sense of lost identity. Can sometimes resent how the group doesn't really see them. May fixate on what others think of them. Or resent the group and make fun of it. Some social Nines stay basically uninvolved but hang out at the group's edge. Frequently there's lots of activity. May get caught up in roles - a stronger connection to 3 goes with this subtype.


    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  12. #12
    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
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    This (from Bliss Stream's Descriptions for the 9w1 Stackings):
    sp/so 9w1
    They are the most persona non gratta 9w1s.... They have a warm, gentle and diplomatic feel about them as if nobody is home. Their presence is wimpy and resigned, but occasionally they might erupt in a burst of gut truth like somebody sliding head first into home plate. They sometimes take testy, tough, and immoveable positions with relatives.... But inevitably resign themselves to putting their heads in the sand. They can have an unassuming ambition and fall into depression or bouts of despair not having yet made a mark...They are reliable reporters of what's going on socially and are more stuck to people in their environment than they let on. Unlike sp/sx 9w1, this stack sticks to their routines much longer and more consistently in the details of their activity day in and day out, right down to the conversations they have with people and the inflections and tones they use in their voice. They may seem like 5w6 in their scientific orientation. But they are unshakeable idealists when it comes to their sense of duty and social responsibility. They will do what's necessary without fanfare but can seem cool and aloof as if it's all process. They contain a social motor of willpower that lacks self-awareness. This same aloofness can show up as an indifference towards the needs of family members when they are under stress. They see how everything subjective is ultimately swallowed up into nothing, giving them a long, long view of events. They know when they can move the "templates" of reality forward through their unconscious sense for which way the winds are blowing. But in doing so, they still retain the detachment to narrate events as if they weren't the ones moving them.
    is a reasonably strong description of how I would see myself as a 9w1 if not any other type (it might not seem wholly appealing or particular attractive, but makes me see 9w1 Sp/So at the very least as being strong contender). I do have the general worry about contradictions between different sets of descriptions, vague or catch-all language, as well as a strong propensity to being highly subjective (in regards self-analysis, I mean that many traits are difficult if not impossible to objectively evaluate).
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

  13. #13
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    No this makes no sense to me and seems completely useless. For example, im social last, that means im BAD at social. My last tritype is 8. Im not "bad" at it, I am this tritype. So why should you put your last instinct that you suck at, together with your last type in your tritype, like it doesn't make any sense. Instinct and tritypes are separate things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    No this makes no sense to me and seems completely useless. For example, im social last, that means im BAD at social. My last tritype is 8. Im not "bad" at it, I am this tritype. So why should you put your last instinct that you suck at, together with your last type in your tritype, like it doesn't make any sense. Instinct and tritypes are separate things.
    Totally agree there.

    Your instinctual stacking does not change with your tritype. That is not how it works.

    For example, I am So/Sx and 459.
    So that means I am So/Sx 4, So/Sx 5 and So/Sx 9 (in that order).
    4w5-9w1-5w6 So/Sx

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  15. #15
    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    Totally agree there.

    Your instinctual stacking does not change with your tritype. That is not how it works.

    For example, I am So/Sx and 459.
    So that means I am So/Sx 4, So/Sx 5 and So/Sx 9 (in that order).
    Oh cool. I think that, if true, would make my tritype (whatever that is) combined with the relevant stackings closer to my personality than the alternative.
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Verbrannte View Post
    None of these are set in stone, so feel free to negotiate with and/or fight me here. I simplify my typings a lot to get rid of what I think is redundant information (which I'll explain if you like but it's probably a bit unorthodox). If you want to be typed you can also ask me and I'll edit this. I'll edit it anyways as I type more people. Almost everyone on a typology forum has a 4 and is contraflow, what a surprise

    Alioth - ILE 648 Sp/Sx
    Bled - SEE 748 Sx/So
    Bullets - ILI 487 Sx/So
    Director Abbie - ESE 164 Sx/So
    Ghost - SEI 468 Sp/Sx
    Gypsy - ESI 487 So/Sx
    L25 - ILE 684 Sp/Sx
    Maritsa - SEE 824 So/Sx
    Satan - SLI 853 Sx/Sp
    SisOfNight - IEI 459 So/Sx
    Spider - ILI 863 So/Sx
    Subteigh - EII 541 So/Sp
    totalize - LIE 852 Sx/So
    troubador - EII 459 So/Sp

    My self-typing is not on here yet because I still want to see what some people here have to say without it being a reaction to my self-typing. People will already consider a lot of these impossible but unless there's a good argument I don't know, I don't see any combination as impossible. Internal strife is part of human nature, as unglamorous-sounding as that is.
    I have been thinking recently that if I am a 5 that Sp-leading might be too inward-looking and non-people focused, "even" for me, and thus So/Sp may be better. I have also thought that So>Sp for any other enneagram type I consider for myself is unlikely, because all other So-leading descriptions I believe are too explicitly people-focused compared to how I am. 1>9 (as my primary type or in my tritype) may indeed fit better, and some mild form/aspect of 4 may also cover me. I find the whole enneagram typing process rather tediously impossible however.
    .
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

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