Results 1 to 35 of 35

Thread: Reasons duals fall out / split / encounter difficulties

  1. #1
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Amongst the stars
    TIM
    EII/INFj E9w1sp
    Posts
    4,078
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Reasons duals fall out / split / encounter difficulties

    What are examples of reasons why duals can end up distant from each other?

    Initial lack of attraction is "normal" within the theory, and we already know how that works (opposing clubs, etc.). What I'm more interested in is what can happen after a relationship / friendship is already begun, particularly if it's a long-standing one. We've had tons of dual-related threads (it is a huge motivator behind the development of the theory, after all), but I don't remember seeing one focused on this aspect.

    Preferably share real life examples and stories, but theoretical ones are ok, too. And I do want to know NTR factors. So if you know of a failed dual relationship, describe it here. Feed me data, please.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    2,230
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Both sticking to super-ego out of self-preservation, never giving in to Creative and causing loss of HA to the other.

  3. #3
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    ILI ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,876
    Mentioned
    728 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Off f the top of my head...

    Culture, religion, maturity levels, any kind of betrayal and lies.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  4. #4
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    IDK
    Posts
    6,470
    Mentioned
    169 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    interesting you should bring this up... I kind of had a temporary falling out with a (suspected) dual recently.

    OK, attraction-wise... it's apparently one-sided. I'm attracted, he's not (I think). He has to date within a certain ethnic group which i am not a member of.

    We had become fairly good friends over about a period of 4-5 months or so. A few weeks ago I revealed my feelings for him. As I said, it wasnt mutual, but he (and I) reacted in a way that maintained our friendship; both of us wanted that. This was not the falling out.

    Last weekend when i was out of town, we had an unfortunate texting conversation that just went wrong on too many levels. Texts were coming in the wrong order, etc. I got insulted, he got defensive, etc etc, misunderstandings on both ends. When I got back in town, i called him out on the thing i felt insulted by. We talked about it. Turns out, he didn't mean it that way. Turns out, he misinterpreted something i said too. After a couple more conversations about it, we reconciled easily, forgiven completely. However, if we didn't talk about it, it's possible we may have ended our friendship. But I felt this extreme urge to discuss the situation with him, and he did as well. Maybe because we are close enough to feel comfortable to have those conversations, idk. If we were more distant perhaps it wouldn't have happened, but also perhaps we wouldn't have had that text conversation in the first place.

    Something i am learning is that in-person conversations are way way way preferable to texting or even over the phone. Especially with a dual.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  5. #5
    Muddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,219
    Mentioned
    67 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    For me its the same reason why I drift apart from everyone else dual or non-dual, I almost never initiate social contact with people I don't routinely interact with due to shyness and not feeling "liked" enough to be permitted to invade people's space in order to get to know them better. Only hope for me is if I run into someone who REALLY wants to get to know me, which has yet to happen.

  6. #6
    lynn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    TIM
    IEI-Fe 4-5/6-9 so/sx
    Posts
    763
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    i never developed a friendship or close relationship with a SLE. usually when SLEs display shitty behaviour (in my eyes) or just are not my taste for some reason i put it under the category "i dislike this but i wish that you find happiness in life" and keep my distance. they can't really offend me in a personal way. the closest i've come to a fall out with a SLE was someone i was attracted to (and vice versa). the first time i met him (we met in a work evironment and there were always long breaks in between) i just assumed we would end up in a sort of superficial friendship mode, have fun, very simple, but what actually happened was the most bizarre, stupid cat-mouse game and for a very long time. in the end he would go to great lengths to avoid me and he put an unnecessary amount of effort in not noticing that i exist. it didn't made sense in the context of our interaction at all...

    edit:
    an IEE so/sp friend of mine broke up with her SLI sp/sx boyfriend because he craved too much one-on-one time for her taste, never wanted to leave the house and join her in various social settings. also he gave higher priorities to his work/income than his social environment, which she didn't like ...
    Last edited by lynn; 03-03-2016 at 10:57 AM.

  7. #7
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    IDK
    Posts
    6,470
    Mentioned
    169 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    For me its the same reason why I drift apart from everyone else dual or non-dual, I almost never initiate social contact with people I don't routinely interact with due to shyness and not feeling "liked" enough to be permitted to invade people's space in order to get to know them better. Only hope for me is if I run into someone who REALLY wants to get to know me, which has yet to happen.
    One thing to keep in mind though is that if someone who really wants to get to know you is always having to initiate, they may get the impression you arent that into them (this applies platonically too, not just romantically). They may grow tired/discouraged by your lack of reaching out.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  8. #8
    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Canada
    TIM
    9w8
    Posts
    3,272
    Mentioned
    124 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Goals. Life goals. Those were the reason for some encountered difficulties and subsequent split for me.
    "If this to end in fire, then we should all burn together. Watch the flames climb higher into the night."

  9. #9
    Haikus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,060
    Mentioned
    223 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Usually it's just different interests. SLEs are much more energized and amused by external stimuli.... they are going to want to go out and do stuff and be a go getter instead of be like some pathetic weak and faggy housewife ish IEI. IEIs can be amused by external stimuli too- but usually that's just the SLE's penis. The energy is kind of in this narrow vacuum, whereas with the SLE there is tons of breadth.

    The sex is so great though because OMG OPPOSITES ATTRACT!!! and they are kind of the same ppl deep down inside, just flipped in reverse and using different shells to attract the person- but similiar goo inside. (I often enjoy the same type of music as SLEs do for example) SLEs are outgoing bad boy/girls though- and IEIs are shy and sensitive artists. Unless I am in the mood for sex or to make some sort of sighing pining romantic gestures- I will not really want or care for an SLE tbh. Why would I? Instead of sitting on their ass and playing a video game with me, they will wanna go out clubbing or something.

  10. #10
    bolong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    626
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Usually it's just different interests. SLEs are much more energized and amused by external stimuli.... they are going to want to go out and do stuff and be a go getter instead of be like some pathetic weak and faggy housewife ish IEI.
    Is that just your sense of humor or something? Don't blame it on being gay, male homosexuals speak in a much more empowered way these days.

  11. #11
    Muddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,219
    Mentioned
    67 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    One thing to keep in mind though is that if someone who really wants to get to know you is always having to initiate, they may get the impression you arent that into them (this applies platonically too, not just romantically). They may grow tired/discouraged by your lack of reaching out.
    I'm aware of this but I'm not really sure what I can do about it. I have been deprived of social interaction throughout my life and have never gotten comfortable with striking up conversions with people unless I know them extremely well, which is pretty much limited to my mother and brother. When I do try to talk to people I struggle finding things worth talking about to keep the conversion going and it just kind of ends with awkward silence. Most of my interest are things like socionics which are too complicated or niche to talk to someone about in a casual conversion. Initiation and maintaining small talk are my achille's heel.

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    5,048
    Mentioned
    381 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    What are examples of reasons why duals can end up distant from each other?
    As for marriage or romantic relations - it's common for people to make a pair for limited time. Then their interest decreases and they seek for other one to make a pair. Such happends in many cases and the reason is biology and social norms. Duality gives basis for friendship, it does not change people. With dual you have more chances for long relations, better relations, but they may end too.

    Initial lack of attraction is "normal" within the theory
    Initial attraction is often caused by physical attractiveness, - this have no strong relation to types. As persons duals look as cute and worthy people from the beginning. And people wich differ from you are always interesting. That "theory" said by you is based on nothing.

    So if you know of a failed dual relationship, describe it here.
    IRL I met 3 dual pairs marriages. One is long good marriage. About other 2 I know a few, but nothing bad.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  13. #13
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Amongst the stars
    TIM
    EII/INFj E9w1sp
    Posts
    4,078
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Thanks for your input, @Sol. You're a little limited in terms of actual data / examples, but it's still something and I appreciate varying opinions. However...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Initial attraction is often caused by physical attractiveness, - this have no strong relation to types. As persons duals look as cute and worthy people from the beginning. And people wich differ from you are always interesting. That "theory" said by you is based on nothing..
    To disagree and offer alternative ideas is one thing; the bolded not only is illogical (to prove the absence or negative is basically impossible, even if you tried, which you weren't) but smacks of a personal insult, which I'm not too keen on.

    Here is an example of this "nothing" of which you speak:

    However, nature has played a little trick on us. It is difficult to notice your Dual partner among all the other types and even easier to pass them by. Usually during first contact extroverts think about their introvert Dual as ordinary and simple, therefore not deserving their personal attention. In return introverts consider their extrovert Dual to be too good for them and therefore unattainable. Both positions usually belong to people who had a lack of Duality interaction during childhood.
    From http://www.socionics.com/rel/dlt.htm, last paragraph.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    5,048
    Mentioned
    381 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Here is an example of this "nothing" of which you speak
    The text written there is wrong and baseless, as I said. There is nothing in theory to say that.
    As duals differ from you they are not "ordinary and simple", they are interesting and pleasant as persons. Also it's not common for introverts to think "extrovert Dual to be too good" - they similarly just see interesting and pleasant persons. To think about someone with most friendly character as "to be too good for you" is senseless and there is no such thing.

    to prove the absence or negative is basically impossible, even if you tried, which you weren't
    Besides my opinion based on not so small experience, there were arguments: "As persons duals look as cute and worthy people from the beginning. And people wich differ from you are always interesting."
    I'll expand them. People wich are "cute and worthy" should catch your attention. Duals may give this impression from the beginning - you see cute woman and that catches you. Also your attention is catched by what differs from you, while duals are rather such. It's not typical for nature to play senseless tricks - as duals are good for you, your instincts make them interesting and pleasant for you.

    P.S.
    If you'll know your real type, it will be easier for you to notice how different IR are sensed, for example with my types examples. Your style of communication on the forum is not common for INFJ, so this version is possibly wrong.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  15. #15
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    ILI ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,876
    Mentioned
    728 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    P.S.
    If you'll know your real type, it will be easier for you to notice how different IR are sensed, for example with my types examples. Your style of communication on the forum is not common for INFJ, so this version is possibly wrong.
    It's kind of funny that the only person I recall you typing INFJ on this forum is summerprincess and I think it is because you saw her pics and were physically attracted. You hounded the poor girl for weeks trying to get her to agree with you even when she outright disagreed with you and gave you reasons to doubt your own judgment and typing of her. You dismissed it. So if summerprincess gives no weight to your opinion of her type yet you have great "sympathy" for her what does that mean?

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  16. #16
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Not a shared life path

    one person is massively unhealthy or toxic in ways the other person can't (or shouldn't) try to endure.

    different identity affiliations that they are more bound to or ego-fixated than relationships or giving and growing as a couple.

    significant lack of emotional literacy.

    immaturity, lack of commitment to whatever relationship goal is (monogamy, open relationship, etc)

    jack harkness or UDP is in one or more of their lives and they are hopelessly succumb to desire to be with such a person.

    - - -

    Extreme enneagram incompatibility (there are some enneagram types that I feel I just don't have a good chance with, like 4s, and I can see my nature as being hard for some people to handle)

    age differences, life situations being very different, etc.

    ...

    In general I don't really see socionics to blame, nor do I think that intertype relations, in their most stereotypical and fixed interpretation, are basically very useful for describing what actually happens.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  17. #17
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    IDK
    Posts
    6,470
    Mentioned
    169 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    I'm aware of this but I'm not really sure what I can do about it. I have been deprived of social interaction throughout my life and have never gotten comfortable with striking up conversions with people unless I know them extremely well, which is pretty much limited to my mother and brother. When I do try to talk to people I struggle finding things worth talking about to keep the conversion going and it just kind of ends with awkward silence. Most of my interest are things like socionics which are too complicated or niche to talk to someone about in a casual conversion. Initiation and maintaining small talk are my achille's heel.
    I think even just taking initiative with planning an outing with a friend who has been inviting you, is fine. Just the initiative speaks for itself. Dont worry too much about how the conversation will go. Silences are OK, and conversation will happen one way or another. If you're worried about it, plan an activity that doesn't require much talking.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  18. #18
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Amongst the stars
    TIM
    EII/INFj E9w1sp
    Posts
    4,078
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    The text written there is wrong and baseless, as I said. There is nothing in theory to say that.
    Perhaps you and I define "theory" differently. I see it as the general recorded discussions, suppositions, speculations relating to the principles of socionics. Therefore, whether you agree with it or not my opinion (and its supporting pieces) is still part of the general theory.

    How do you define it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    As duals differ from you they are not "ordinary and simple", they are interesting and pleasant as persons. Also it's not common for introverts to think "extrovert Dual to be too good" - they similarly just see interesting and pleasant persons. To think about someone with most friendly character as "to be too good for you" is senseless and there is no such thing.
    I, too, have some experience, including successfully interfacing with actual human beings. I have, multiple times, heard introverts say exactly that about their extroverted duals and vice versa. To ignore what I'm saying of my experiences is to limit your own understanding, and if you do that then I lose respect for your opinions.



    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Besides my opinion based on not so small experience, there were arguments: "As persons duals look as cute and worthy people from the beginning. And people wich differ from you are always interesting."
    I'll expand them. People wich are "cute and worthy" should catch your attention. Duals may give this impression from the beginning - you see cute woman and that catches you. Also your attention is catched by what differs from you, while duals are rather such. It's not typical for nature to play senseless tricks - as duals are good for you, your instincts make them interesting and pleasant for you.
    This is disjointed and hard to understand, plus rather wishy washy. All I really got is that differences can attract attention, which I agree with. This can be seen in many fields, including graphic design. If you're trying to say more, try again and with better spelling / grammar, please. And evidence (more than "because I say so").

    And, no, you still cannot prove a negative.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    P.S.
    If you'll know your real type, it will be easier for you to notice how different IR are sensed, for example with my types examples. Your style of communication on the forum is not common for INFJ, so this version is possibly wrong.
    Do you want to start a discussion on my type? We can do that if you want, but not here. I would be interested to see if you have any helpful input.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  19. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    2,230
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    I'm aware of this but I'm not really sure what I can do about it. I have been deprived of social interaction throughout my life and have never gotten comfortable with striking up conversions with people unless I know them extremely well, which is pretty much limited to my mother and brother. When I do try to talk to people I struggle finding things worth talking about to keep the conversion going and it just kind of ends with awkward silence. Most of my interest are things like socionics which are too complicated or niche to talk to someone about in a casual conversion. Initiation and maintaining small talk are my achille's heel.
    Ever listen to an SLE talk? They just keep yapping even after it is past the point of making no sense lol. Try that lol. Just remain positive with whatever falls out your mouth lol.

    Also, get more common hobbies so you have something to talk about.

  20. #20
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    one reason duals might not work out is because they just can't get how great the other person is,


    which sometimes happen because they have so little experience with people like that being that way (very common for STs to not really understand the NF realm at all or have little exposure)

    or because, for one party, they have been very conditioned (family, early / lingering social scenes), to have a lot of self repression or lack of being rewarded for who they are (or for being someone who is comfortable 'with their type" -- and I don't mean they need to know socionics. I mean, not everyon is used to being rewarded or accepted for the kind of lopsidedness they actually have) .

    So finding a person who might actually gel with that pretty well, it might not matter, if you yourself are unaccustomed to or have shame or negative experiences in operating or receiving love in particular ways.


    I know this is a possibility because I have lived it and seen it impact relationships close around me also.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  21. #21
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    [QUOTE=Minde;1123693]

    Do you want to start a discussion on my type?/QUOTE]


    I think that's about as closed to "U wanna make something of it??" as Minde gets.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  22. #22

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    5,048
    Mentioned
    381 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Perhaps you and I define "theory" differently.
    There is basic general theory, like 8 functions, model A, dichotomies etc. And just some text written in a socionics book or article without resonable links to basic theory or anything else convincing. One of such is the strange assertion about introverted duals are not interesting to extraverts. Why this may be wrong I've offered: 1) senseless from poit of view of psychology (people have interest to what differs from them significantly, while duals are such), 2) senseless from point of view of nature (instincts) - it's useful to get interest to most possible friends. Another part of bullshit was that dual extraverts look as inaccessible for introverts. The essence of duality is friendship, while friendship is relations of equal, so perception of duals as "higher people" is senseless too.
    And my practice is other. The ones near me wich I later typed as duals/semi-duals/mirages got my interest and sympathy very quickly. I never felt they perceived themselves lower then me as personalities.

    Do you want to start a discussion on my type?
    As I significantly doubt that your type is INFJ, I recommend you to create a typing theme with videointerview fitting to conditions. Then me and others may say assumptions about your type. Discussions about someones types are too speculative to take part in them seriously.
    Last edited by Sol; 03-04-2016 at 09:37 AM.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  23. #23
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Amongst the stars
    TIM
    EII/INFj E9w1sp
    Posts
    4,078
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    There is basic general theory, like 8 functions, model A, dichotomies etc. And just some text written in a socionics book or article without resonable links to basic theory or anything else convincing. One of such is the strange assertion about introverted duals are not interesting to extraverts. Why this may be wrong I've offered: 1) senseless from poit of view of psychology (people have interest to what differs from them significantly, while duals are such), 2) senseless from point of view of nature (instincts) - it's useful to get interest to most possible friends. Another part of bullshit was that dual extraverts look as inaccessible for introverts. The essence of duality is friendship, while friendship is relations of equal, so perception of duals as "higher people" is senseless too.
    And my practice is other. The ones near me wich I later typed as duals/semi-duals/mirages got my interest and sympathy very quickly. I never felt they perceived themselves lower then me as personalities.
    Basically you seem to be saying that according to your subjective logic and experiences I am wrong about my opinion. That's fine in and of itself and if I liked you a little better I might be inclined to debate a little further. What I don't like is the name-calling, though. Your approach is too harsh.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    As I significantly doubt that your type is INFJ, I recommend you to create a typing theme with videointerview fitting to conditions. Then me and others may say assumptions about your type. Discussions about someones types are too speculative to take part in them seriously.
    First, you're not making sense again. If video typing is the only way you feel confident about typing someone, how can you have significant doubts as to my self-typing when you've only seen me write a few times?

    Second, you first. Where's your typing video?
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  24. #24
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Amongst the stars
    TIM
    EII/INFj E9w1sp
    Posts
    4,078
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    I think that's about as closed to "U wanna make something of it??" as Minde gets.
    Lol, yes, I'm annoyed at Sol. This is me being prickly and offended. Though upon some calming down and further reflection I don't sense malice in him so much as carelessness and clumsiness in human relations.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  25. #25
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Lol, yes, I'm annoyed at Sol. This is me being prickly and offended. Though upon some calming down and further reflection I don't sense malice in him so much as carelessness and clumsiness in human relations.
    the force (of enneagram 9 energy) is strong in this one
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  26. #26
    killer wolf lemontrees's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    emotionz
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    1,114
    Mentioned
    100 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I have an ILE ex I haven't spoken to for a while. Granted, we were never "in love"- we were more like friends who hooked up during a bad period of time for both of us. Anyway, he's pretty mentally ill, and unmedicated, and sort of verbally attacks people. The last time we met up as friends it felt like... the way some incompatible couples get after years, both feeling constantly on edge and not trusting the other's words b/c you feel they will misunderstand and "bite" you for just being yourself. So it can get that bad, with duals, although I think it's an extreme case.

    Other dual friendships I have have drifted due to living in different cities, time constraints, separate lives, etc, but not really conflict.

  27. #27
    summerprincess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    US
    TIM
    IEI 4w3 sx/sp
    Posts
    517
    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    In my limited experience, duals falling out would be the same reasons as most couples, but there is a magnetism apparent that makes it difficult for duals to completely stop seeing each other. Reasons I can think of that are definitely probable: religious differences (I know some religious SLEs and I am not religious); the extrovert partner does not want to 'settle down' and still wishes to play the field; mental problems on either side (as in any couple, these can be destabilizing factors). Also I think duals can annoy each other sometimes if they don't make an effort to stay on the same wavelength, because dual types are quite different from each other.

  28. #28
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    IDK
    Posts
    6,470
    Mentioned
    169 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    Ever listen to an SLE talk? They just keep yapping even after it is past the point of making no sense lol. Try that lol. Just remain positive with whatever falls out your mouth lol.

    Also, get more common hobbies so you have something to talk about.
    You're advising an Se-POLR to be more like an Se-Dom here.
    @Muddytextures shouldn't worry too much about awkward silences. The ESE will do the yapping, dont you worry . Or you can just have cute awkward silences that add to the charm of the experience. Just embrace it!
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  29. #29
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    2,230
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    You're advising an Se-POLR to be more like an Se-Dom here.
    @Muddytextures shouldn't worry too much about awkward silences. The ESE will do the yapping, dont you worry . Or you can just have cute awkward silences that add to the charm of the experience. Just embrace it!
    Well of course. What was written was being too far into Se -PoLR land to have normal interactions with people. Taking a lesson from SLE will counter balance that problem.

  30. #30
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    IDK
    Posts
    6,470
    Mentioned
    169 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    Well of course. What was written was being too far into Se -PoLR land to have normal interactions with people. Taking a lesson from SLE will counter balance that problem.
    socionics is all about many different "normals".
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  31. #31
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    2,230
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    socionics is all about many different "normals".
    Except there's still an average between the 16 lol

  32. #32

    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    TIM
    SEE! Type 7
    Posts
    69
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    One of them gets really, really fat.

    I'm just an effin ray of sunshine

  33. #33
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    2,521
    Mentioned
    374 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Since Duality is only a description of information exchange, and does not specifically say anything about what a person desires from life or who they are as a person, I have to assume that Duals “fall out” for the same reasons (except poor communication) that any couple would experience. Differences in geographic location, life goals, social class (although this matters less in America than it used to), age, personal desires, social intelligence, all can contribute to two people electing to not pursue or continue a relationship.

    If a person finds someone who has some, but not all, of the desired characteristics they are looking for in a partner for a long term relationship, they are also faced with the “Stopping Problem”. This is the problem of determining the point at which you say, “This one is good enough. I can stop searching.” (This problem is optimally solved by estimating the number of people you can interview for the position, then see and reject the first 37% of this number and finally, choose the very next person who is better than any of the first 37% interviewees. We are assuming that you can’t return to someone you’ve already passed by. (This method also works for hiring and for finding a place to have lunch.) However, while the method is an optimal strategy on average, it does not guarantee that you will not pass over your ideal dual if you encounter them in the first rejected 37%. Alternately, your ideal Dual may or may not exist, or you may not meet them before your interviewing process runs out of interviewees. Since this kind of selection process occurs in real life, Duals can be rejected (or fall out) because a person hopes to find someone better.

    This process is part of the reason I am interested in Socionics. I had been trying the random search-and-try method, without having any clear idea of what characteristics would be optimal for me. How do you know when you can’t do any better? (Most people will know what they want better than I did.) Socionics provides a description of what is out there – a map of the territory, so to speak. As Yogi Berra said, “If you don’t know where you’re going, you will probably end up somewhere else.” And I was ending up somewhere else a lot.

    This lack of general knowledge of what is available is probably responsible for the large number of long marriages in previous centuries.

    Most of my relationships (buds or potentially romantic) with Duals have been Failures to Start. Some have been failures of a more normal sort. Some continue unabated. All have been platonic, so far. Here is a list:
    Dual #2 Guy in a local Astronomy club OK, but ultimately not smart enough.
    Dual #3 Girl at the lunch counter Too young
    Dual #4 Girl Artist Too young, but otherwise, I’d close the deal.
    Dual #5 Girl yard worker Social class diff, would not let me meet her dad
    Dual #6 Guy at work Good guy, gay.
    Dual #7 Girl at Customer’s company Nice, but lives too far away.

    Dual #1
    I (LIE-Te) had a friendship with a guy whom I retroactively type as ESI-Se. We met in high school. He was my best friend, although I think he valued another guy more than me in some ways. In any case, we would talk after school at his house for hours almost every night. We shared an interest in Astronomy, and we talked about that and where we were going in life. Eventually, we went to different universities, and talked less and less as life happened. I attended his wedding to an ILI, and he attended mine to an SLI, but we talked even less after that. A year ago, I visited him and his wife in Arizona, and we had a great conversation over lunch. He eventually said that he wished we could talk all the time, just like we did in high school. I thought, “Well, that’s not possible.” Nevertheless, I was amazed at rediscovering how great the guy is, and how well we still get along.
    This was probably my best ESI relationship so far, and perhaps my best relationship, period. We were psychologically compatible, from the same socio-economic class, similar in age, and together we planned our future lives, because we had shared goals.

    I realize that this story is not what the OP had in mind when she asked for breakup stories. In truth, all the duals whom I personally know, who also got along well enough to “see” each other, are still on good terms with each other.

    I think, in order to have a long term relationship, you have to have the above factors working in your favor. It helps to be healthy and mature and past most of your issues, if you have any, but those things are not actually as important as being there when your partner needs you and respecting their needs. It also helps to have the same world-view. (The Enneagram has more to say about this.) Finally, you have to separate the people, whom you merely like and get along with and perhaps find fairly compatible, from those with whom you will commit to building a life together.

  34. #34

    Default

    It's usually because they're not sensitive enough to each others' signals, and that's because of a lack of prior dual contact. The dual partner will keep their role mask on for longer if they're insensitive to your base, but that is going to (subconsciously) repel you.

    eg
    SEE keeps their Ne role function mask on, ILI ignores and resists them through Ne observing. Relationship falls apart unless SEE uses their Se base.
    Last edited by ConcreteButterfly; 03-07-2016 at 11:22 PM.

  35. #35
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Duals don't attract each other initially for very obvious reasons If they haven't grown up knowing the other party and their needs they may not care about them much. Take LSE. LSE doesn't pay attention to smarts and clever person. They note the woman who dressed well, he's an aesthetic person who notes the woman's shape and dress. How can he be attracted to the Empath EII. His dual who would rather be in service in humble service of his fellow human beings? The EII lives in humble circumstance and dresses practically. Being loose in ones body also means even if she's a knockout she doesn't really care about her physical existence that much. So you have an LSE who raised you like I do who gets mad at me when I don't dress well and makes me look presentable. And this same dual will love me because I don't reject their long talking . Comfort zone is crossed on both sides uniting them.

    They can fall out because they weren't duals, because one of the parties isn't ready, cheating, anything that exists is possible. I fell out with a dual because he didn't care about my emotional health and unleashed people like dogs to attack me I'm sure he lives in his shame as he should.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •