Beta Helping Alpha to Take Charge

[Hiketeia21]

Hello all! I am new to the forum, and I would like the input of others in the forum on this recent problem of mine....

My husband is LII and I am IEI; I am far more dominant than he is, incidentally. At the beginning of our relationship we used to get into many fights mostly consisting of the fact that I am not an ESE socializer who has enough friends to give him instant access to a warm and lively social atmosphere, and he is not an SLE 'git 'er done' empire builder with a power complex and a taste for the dramatic/poetic in me.

After working through some of these issues and trying to change our expectations of each other, Hubby recently brought it to my attention that he would like to try being the dominant one for a while. (Keep in mind that he has a very prominent Se PoLR). The thing is, I was just beginning to accept that he is not a Beta ST. His Ti is really really schmexy and is why I fell for him, but the Se is just not there. He is very much against or suspicious of my love for The Walking Dead, historical fiction about ancient empires ('luxury porn', as he calls it), and other things that I realize are basically Beta-esque longings. How can I possibly see this cynical but lovable sweetheart as a dominant even temporarily?

He mentioned something about leadership skills needing development anyway, which is a really logical reason to try such a project - plus I think my outright refusal hurt his feelings. I'd like to correct this and give him a chance, but what is the best way to help an Alpha learn to be dominant once in a while without hurting his painful function or expecting him to be an SLE of some sort?

[blank]

Dominant sexually? Sorry, there's no helping LIIs with that, they need their butt wiped by mama constantly.

All kidding aside...he's against you watching a fucking TV show? Maybe there are other issues that need to be addressed instead?

[Hiketeia21]

He is hypercritical of things like that, yes. Very prominent PoLR that seems to be hair trigger in response to any situation that devolves from Alpha 'talk you way through situations' to Beta *revs up chainsaw and charges up the Fe base*. It scares the fuck out of him.

Don't worry, it's not like he has the Se to push me around on it, and he is generally against people doing that to others. Freedom and all that. But yeah.

[Sol]

> My husband is LII and I am IEI; I am far more dominant than he is, incidentally

dominant IEI? check your type and husband's too

[Hiketeia21]

> My husband is LII and I am IEI; I am far more dominant than he is, incidentally

dominant IEI? check your type and husband's too

"More dominant than he is," is what I said. It was kind of an 'even I am more dominant than him' kind of statement. Thing is, I happen to be a bit of a control freak given my history of being a victim of psychological abuse (ENTj supervisor father) but am really not very intimidating. Or, rarely. I am more of an ice queen able to manipulate people around me than a truly powerful person in the traditional sense. But I was lowkey obsessed with becoming connected to someone like that my whole life...of being worthy of such a person and they of me.

Then my sweetheart husband came along and chopped me off at my hypergamous knees. I have been in love ever since, which for Beta NFs means pushing for him to do ST acrobatics to prove that they are (still) worthy of my affection. It has taken some growth and self-awareness to stop doing this, but it looks like it came too late - I created a monster who wants to dominate me but is basically a teddy bear that binges on wifi and doesn't adult too well.

This is terribly sweet, and I love him for it, but I don't know what to do now.

[Beautiful sky]

> My husband is LII and I am IEI; I am far more dominant than he is, incidentally

dominant IEI? check your type and husband's too

That's a relationship of benefits where the IEI is the benefactor thus in a superior position and yes they are far more assertive than the sensitive LII who are much like me. You need to check your socionics knowledge

[Beautiful sky]

"More dominant than he is," is what I said. It was kind of an 'even I am more dominant than him' kind of statement. Thing is, I happen to be a bit of a control freak given my history of being a victim of psychological abuse (ENTj supervisor father) but am really not very intimidating. Or, rarely. I am more of an ice queen able to manipulate people around me than a truly powerful person in the traditional sense. But I was lowkey obsessed with becoming connected to someone like that my whole life...of being worthy of such a person and they of me.

Then my sweetheart husband came along and chopped me off at my hypergamous knees. I have been in love ever since, which for Beta NFs means pushing for him to do ST acrobatics to prove that they are (still) worthy of my affection. It has taken some growth and self-awareness to stop doing this, but it looks like it came too late - I created a monster who wants to dominate me but is basically a teddy bear that binges on wifi and doesn't adult too well.

This is terribly sweet, and I love him for it, but I don't know what to do now.

Makes sense

[ouronis]

being a control freak is terrible for people's sense of self-sufficiency, because they either have to give in and allocate their assertiveness to other energies(which disempowers them) or they are constantly fighting with you over it. perhaps try to even the playing field instead of having a dominant-subordinate relationship and see how he feels.

then look at if you need to be dominant, based on if the vision that comes about by behaving fairly with each other is sufficient for producing a life that has what you need in it.

[Jeremy8419]

> My husband is LII and I am IEI; I am far more dominant than he is, incidentally

dominant IEI? check your type and husband's too

That's a relationship of benefits where the IEI is the benefactor thus in a superior position and yes they are far more assertive than the sensitive LII who are much like me. You need to check your socionics knowledge

@Hiketeia21

Both of these are correct. IEI is not dominant, and is one of the least dominant types. Literally the only type that IEI is dominant over is LII. Your DS unconsciously calls to you to be dominant, while you can't be, so this is why you're even with him.

To be dominant all he really needs to do is have you stop trying to be over him. You're weak compared to almost all types. He is weak to only you.

[Hiketeia21]

@Hiketeia21

Both of these are correct. IEI is not dominant, and is one of the least dominant types. Literally the only type that IEI is dominant over is LII. Your DS unconsciously calls to you to be dominant, while you can't be, so this is why you're even with him.

To be dominant all he really needs to do is have you stop trying to be over him. You're weak compared to almost all types. He is weak to only you.

Well that's charitable. :/

Still, this might be good advice. The only problem is my complete Victim's aversion to submitting to someone not 'worthy'. I've rejected or ignored many people, not even maliciously, because they weren't The One.

I have for my husband feelings of compassion and love for something weak and lovely that deserves to be taken care of. I don't mind not being dominant all the time, but submission to *him* will take some doing...

It's not simply a matter of 'getting out of the way' because if I stand aside, he'll like...sit on his ass and argue with people on the internet and ask me to bring him cookies or something. Basically ruin it. Then I'll roll my eyes and revoke domination privileges.

[Jeremy8419]

Well that's charitable. :/

Still, this might be good advice. The only problem is my complete Victim's aversion to submitting to someone not 'worthy'. I've rejected or ignored many people, not even maliciously, because they weren't The One.

I have for my husband feelings of compassion and love for something weak and lovely that deserves to be taken care of. I don't mind not being dominant all the time, but submission to *him* will take some doing...

It's not simply a matter of 'getting out of the way' because if I stand aside, he'll like...sit on his ass and argue with people on the internet and ask me to bring him cookies or something. Basically ruin it. Then I'll roll my eyes and revoke domination privileges.

You typed y'all, correct?

[Hiketeia21]

You typed y'all, correct?

Fair point.

I'm far more sure of my type than his. Though I am fairly certain that he is a TiNe ego, he does have some rigid yet clumsy Fi-resembling rules that I just chalked up to role function.

I'm open to the idea that I mistyped us.

[Jeremy8419]

Fair point.

I'm far more sure of my type than his. Though I am fairly certain that he is a TiNe ego, he does have some rigid yet clumsy Fi-resembling rules that I just chalked up to role function.

I'm open to the idea that I mistyped us.

Mistyped? It's your relationship.

The point is, your view of the relationship is that he is subservient to the weakest female type. This is also correlating to your own psychological profile background you've stated.

That's your view.

I could give you a long dissertation about correct usages of socionics terms, definitions, and models; but considering you're an adult asking about life decisions with your spouse, it would be counterproductive to your real relationship to do such.

Try this... Show him the basic 8 functions on wikisocion, have him pick one from each of the Fi/Fe, Ti/Te, Ni/Ne, Si/Si pairs for him, this will give him a Quadra, then have him read from each type in that Quadra on one of the basic profiles/descriptions for him, pick which one he thinks he is, then have him do the same for you. Have him see if he agrees with the intertype relationship for what he picked. Then, compare his version of the relationship to your own.

Orrrr... Go to a counselor.

Orrrr... Simply sit back, say "I'm listening," and do just that. Listen. No interjections, and just listen. Then request he does the same. No good guys or bad guys. Simply open, honest, and non-combative communication.

[Jeremy8419]

I should also point out, Benefactor doesn't just benefit from the beneficiary. They directly don't care that this is the case. By intertype relationships, you've basically put yourself in a position where you don't care about him or his wants.

[Hiketeia21]

Wait a moment, are implying that the problem is my leaning too heavily on socionics? I specifically refused to type him for quite some time to avoid this. It was only after these issues occurred that I felt more free to use such a tool.

That said, if I could get him to be interested in socionics I would love to see his perspective on it. I've practically begged for the second option to happen, guess I'll try again.

[Jeremy8419]

Wait a moment, are implying that the problem is my leaning too heavily on socionics? I specifically refused to type him for quite some time to avoid this. It was only after these issues occurred that I felt more free to use such a tool.

That said, if I could get him to be interested in socionics I would love to see his perspective on it. I've practically begged for the second option to happen, guess I'll try again.

Only takes 5 minutes to pick the preference for these from the "some themes" section.
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...ation_elements

Then another 5 to pick the right type from the Quadra he chose.
http://en.socionicasys.org/teorija/d...isanie-modelej (under subsection on the left)

[Hiketeia21]

Si, Ne, Fi, Te...he picked EII. It would make sense of the Fi fixation I've noticed, but quasi-identicals? Doesn't feel right.

Also, I typed myself as EIE, then EII when I first started...I still think it takes a bit more than such a cursory method.

[Jeremy8419]

Si, Ne, Fi, Te...he picked EII. It would make sense of the Fi fixation I've noticed, but quasi-identicals? Doesn't feel right.

Also, I typed myself as EIE, then EII when I first started...I still think it takes a bit more than such a cursory method.

He is supposed to pick what he thinks your type is as well.

[Hiketeia21]

He asked to see the descriptions again and switched to LSE, and typed me as SLE. This would make us quasi-identicals again.

???

[Jeremy8419]

He asked to see the descriptions again and switched to LSE, and typed me as SLE. This would make us quasi-identicals again.

???

Hahahaha that pretty funny for some reason lol

So you say you're in charge, and he says y'all have opposite views on things. Basically, you think you're the boss, and he thinks the opposite of that. Get how that works now?

[Hiketeia21]

I see what you're doing. Good job.

Ah, well. Maybe it's the case, but I still have difficulty with seeing the idea of him dominant as anything but...cute. And apparently we agree that his dominance over me isn't ingrained in our personalities - at least, he didn't pick types that would make him my benefactor or supervisor. So, back to square one.

[Jeremy8419]

I see what you're doing. Good job.

Ah, well. Maybe it's the case, but I still have difficulty with seeing the idea of him dominant as anything but...cute. And apparently we agree that his dominance over me isn't ingrained in our personalities - at least, he didn't pick types that would make him my benefactor or supervisor. So, back to square one.

He asked to be the dominant one for a while, after you have been the dominant for a while. That's just sharing. What you say is that you're the dominant one. He isn't trying to dominate you, which was part of your past issues. What he is saying is that y'all do have some things similar, but he would like to have the reigns for a while, but knows that you're the one that is so concerned with dominating, not he. Basically, your hold-ups, due to the past, are the reason why he is being so considerate of your feelings on you being in charge. It has nothing to do with his capabilities of being dominant, just that he's far more concerned with your desire for it than with his own. If he wanted to repeat your bad past, he wouldn't be doing what he's doing now in the first place.

Also, that is your primary concern. You can also do the comparisons of the other elements for each of your views on the relationship as well. For instance, you place more value in your own emotional expressions in his eyes, and less into considering the emotional balance between each of you, that you're not as concerned with physical pleasures as him. You on the other hand, agree that he likes physical pleasures more than you, but you consider you both to be emotionally expressive and not concerned with considering emotional balance. He thinks you're both good at logic and weak at ethics. You think you're good at ethics and he is good at logic.

Able to keep going with this usage of socionics on your own?

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Idk I don't care for the Walking Dead and I'm Beta....

[Neneth]

I would, as well, recommend some caution in using socionics to solve problems in marriages and long-term relationships. Like others pointed out, typing has to be made correctly first anyway. Correct typing, depending on your prowess and methods, might actually take a long time to process. Speaking for myself, at around the 1-2 year mark I was still doubting my typing. For my wife, I doubted for much longer than that. Sometimes I still do.

Anywho, if you guys really are in a relationship of benefits, I wish you the best of luck. I know this type of relationship fairly well from both sides, as I had a long-term relationship with my benefactor for 3½ years before my current wife. My little sister, on the other hand, is my beneficiary. As a beneficiary, I enjoy the company of my benefactor and he can make me feel good. But I often feel ignored, like whatever I say doesn't matter. The pain from this is great. From the other side, as a benefactor, I have the feeling like I just want to be myself and explain things. But it's the beneficiary who wants to grab all the attention and make me listen. Sometimes I rub my fingers together and wonder when will be the time when I can talk again, when can I continue my story again. Beware that it is the beneficiary who will leave first, and you will probably not be able to understand why. As far as I know, the benefactor is pretty oblivious to the needs of the beneficiary. By needs I mean the need to develope and process the creative function, which is ignored by the benefactor, hence the pain train.