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Thread: Last time I do this. No sperging out this time.

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    Default Last time I do this. No sperging out this time.

    Perfectly honest, using an actual questionnaire. Assuming anyone's still looking at this who doesn't have me on ignore, thank your for your input.


    Member Questionnaire (manchild brat)

    What is beauty? What is love?
    Beauty is perfection, symmetry. To me, perfection is defined by 1) immense, cosmic, unimaginable scale, and 2) unattainability and distance.

    I remember the foreword for Tolkienís First Book of Lost Tales said that Tolkienís lore seemed so fantastical because in the LotR series, the characters described the kingdoms and gods of Arda as ancient legends within the very legend of the series itself; this created an effect of distance from the past lore of the universe to make it seem only grander and stranger. The foreword went on to say that the Silmarillionís almost poetic tone of lore gave the same effect within the description of this lore itself as it is first introduced: the distance of long-forgotten times.

    Part of it could be that I am a very directionless person, and the idea of the journey being more satisfying than the prize at the end justifies this.


    What are your most important values?
    I fall short of most of my ďvalues.Ē I believe you shouldnít abandon a cause or process just because it seems counterintuitive or takes a frustrating amount of time to complete, just so long as itís showing some sort of progress.

    I also believe internal resentment is worse than external hostility. Hidden hatred just festers and lasts forever, and youíre less likely to detect it so itís less of a fair game. When hatred is overt, the battle lines are drawn and itís a fairer fight. Thereís also a greater likelihood that youíll see the error of your ways when someoneís openly taking issue to it. Alternately, outward conflict can be energizing and even build fortitude, but pondering who might silently loathe me can drive me mad.

    I believe that people who use moral systems that justify inner hatred are inherently worse than those who are hostile out of negligence, no matter who produces more actual hostility in the end. Chaotic Neutral (or even Chaotic Evil) is always better than Lawful Evil.


    Do you have any sort of spiritual/religious beliefs, and why do you hold (or don't) those beliefs in the first place?
    I was pretty spiritual for a while, but never really involved in structured religious social programs (charities, etc.). I was non-denominational Protestant earlier in life. Used to think I had the archetypal work ethic, but I really donít.

    I still believe a greater sense of destination and the moral direction of the world are important, even if science and logic make an intelligent creator redundant. My number one belief is that a strong sense of guilt determines whether one is moral or damnable. A guilty person may show anger but regret it, ultimately striving for perfect patience and humility. At the same time, shame, very distinct form internal guilt, can make people deceitful and sinful in their hearts, regardless of their actual actions in this world.

    I believe this world will always be inherently counterintuitive and futile. Displays of pride Ė especially the less capricious and the more deliberate Ė are unadvisable, even if merited by oneís achievements.

    But again, a lack of personal power and intelligence prevents me from seriously acting upon this sense of destination.


    Opinion on war and militaries? What is power to you?
    War? I donít want to be on the receiving end.

    Iíve never experienced power and I have little understanding of it. I rarely have any significant impact on other people, let alone the ability to control them. Iíve always a remembered a distinct frustration at my inability to control my environment and my position in it, a frustration that I believe coalesced into arrogance and narcissism.

    When it comes to sway over other people, I believe that a truly strong person could do on his own whatever he could force others to do. To me, strength is the ability to withstand external influences.


    What have you had long conversations about? What are your interests? Why?
    Iím an amateur guitar player as a minor hobby, but who isnít. Iíve actively avoided getting too involved in any one pursuit for fear of it absorbing me and dominating my life, because thatís what Iím prone to. Consequently Iím seriously invested in very few pasttimes.


    Interested in health/medicine as a conversation topic? Are you focused on your body?
    Among the scarce things that make me genuinely cringe are depictions of physical pain or injury, particularly to the genitals and the brain. Probably normal.

    Iím told I have good balance. Like I would perch on things when I was a little kid. But other than that, I have shitty proprioception and I could never play team sports.


    What do you think of daily chores?
    When I remember to do them, I enjoy them. Theyíre simple but productive tasks that allow me to tune in to the rhythm and flow of life in ways I canít really get elsewhere. Flow states are important to me, probably more than anything else.

    I often forget some household chores, mainly because theyíre so minor and recur so often itís almost a waste of energy to do them until a buildup (e.g. of laundry, dishes) occurs. Iím the type to store clothing on the floor; if Iím out of laundry, Iíll recycle something I wore once in a row; if Iím really desperate, I can drench an overused piece in deodorant and hope it works. Though Iím called a verbal thinker (and thatís where most of my skillset lies), I let my environment visually organize things for me and I act upon tasks when they physically present themselves. I consider a task much more rewarding if I can see physical results, which is probably part of why I keep up so badly with academics even when Iím good with the content. On the other hand, my clumsiness and lack of accuracy often leads me to break things or do steps of a project in the wrong order, which is probably why I have so few interests.

    I really love running errands. Just running around to buy shit and do things alone, cruising down the road blasting the radio. Get to let some energy out. Of course Iíve gotten more and more socially cautious over the last couple years and Iím constantly worried about derping out in public at a cash register or a grocery aisle or something.


    Books or films you liked? Recently read/watched or otherwise. Examples welcome.
    The Silmarillion
    Catcher in the Rye. Holden seems angry but also very vulnerable, to which I relate.


    What has made you cry? What has made you smile? Why?
    I save actual crying for states of physical pain, I think. If Iím distressed Iíll resort to raising my voice in panic. I used to react to any apparent slight, perceived or otherwise, with externally-directed anger. It made me look like an idiot (nothingís going to stop that now, since I actually am), but I was so chickenshit of the world I didnít care. Or maybe I just gave zero fucks. Iím not sure.

    Sometimes, when Iím watching a movie or thinking about an event that happened, Iíll tear up for about a second over some relatively insignificant good thing that happens to the protagonist or positive outcome for the scenario in my mind. And I donít usually cry at movies. Itís totally anomalous, and it lasts about a second. Usually over things that wouldnít normally affect me. Weirds me out.

    I laugh at unfunny jokes that I remember in my head, even though I donít normally laugh at things when I see them.



    Where do you feel: at one with the environment/a sense of belonging?
    When I need to think about a complex problem or ruminate on future plans I usually have to retreat back into my home, where I feel strongest. Alone for too long, Iíll require the presence of other people, or the stimulation of leaving my home, to be energized again. I wouldnít be surprised if most people were this way, more or less. Iíd say Iím at my best when Iím alone immediately after social interaction, when I have the mental space to process the new ďenergyĒ Iíve taken in.


    What have people seen as your weaknesses? What do you dislike about yourself?
    Most people write me off as too stupid to even bother interacting with, though I havenít realized this until recently.

    Should be obvious, but Iím also long-winded. Use too many adjectives.

    In my natural state, Iím very impulsive. Acting on it proves Iím a retard and/or gets me in trouble; constantly suppressing it drains my energy and puts me at odds with the people around me. I guess I donít adapt very well, even though I think I try to. Either Iím pure chaotic explosive energy or Iím a dead rock who stares into space, no grey area.

    Iím known for being stubborn. Iím working on it.


    What have people seen as your strengths? What do you like about yourself?
    People say I have an active imagination, which is fucking wrong.

    Iím also told Iím a workhorse, meaning that Iíll doggedly persist at a task until I get results. However, I have trouble with tasks that canít be completed with blind force of will alone. I try to develop my own patterns for completing more intellectual work so that I can get into a better flow state with it.

    Iíve learned to step back and observe all possibilities in a given scenario before charging in and doing it, which further limits my ability to make the right inferences quickly.


    In what areas of your life would you like help?
    Time management. Due dates are responsible for a lot of my failures. In some respects my mind freezes up under pressure. Even when given a week or so to go home and work on a project in my own inner sanctum, the scarcity of time remaining can block out a lot of my ingenuity and Iíll stall.

    Social skills, but thereís little to be done here. While I think my problems are more about poor organization/management and social skills, most people I know attribute my angst to emotional delusion. I know off the bat that psychs/councilors would offer little real aid to my case Ė probably give me the same old barrage of ďbeliebe in urslefĒ bullshit that Iím sick of hearing whilst getting no real results.

    Currently my biggest problem is realizing what Iím doing wrong in a given situation. I think I need people openly calling me out on my bullshit, because I canít know the desires of people who donít want to be around me Ė which is unfortunate, since I donít really want them calling me out. Last time somebody did, I realized changes needed to be made. Intuitively I donít understand humility or shame very well, but Iíve recently started caring, I think.


    Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.
    If my work isnít too intellectually intensive or detailed, I can easily snap out of a rut by just doing things. Otherwise I stay there forever.

    I have seeds for many ambitious ideas but lack the mental organization to remember when to work on them. Iím most likely to finish a project if it involves a change in environment or if it involves other people, since I need stimulation to keep going. The latter isnít usually an option since I have few friends, zero social skills, and zero cooperative skills. Basically I need people but I canít get them.

    But I really see results when I use enough caffeine at once. When Iím in a ďrut,Ē I think I let my mind float about with little direction, allowing me to parse new ideas and vaguely explore concepts to expand upon.

    When Iím energized, I just keep pushing and pushing ahead to the finish, often at the expense of quality and innovation. As a result, I try to be careful to hit every detail along the way and only invest in a prospect that shows real value against intensive intellectual scrutiny, yet another factor of my procrastination.


    What qualities do you most like and dislike in other people? What types do you get along with?
    I hate impatience and lack of transparency. I also hate when people jump to one inference instead of considering all possible interpretations of a piece of information.

    I hate when people refuse to explain themselves. I donít know why anyone would. It strikes me as really egotistical. Iím even known for being stubborn, but I at least try to back up my lack of compliance with reasoning, however poorly I express it.

    I hate selective hearing. More specifically, when someone takes a very specific message and breaks it down into its simplest form to meet their internally predefined qualifiers. I think this is something Ti-Se users are archetypally known for, but Iím not sure.
    When I hear someone say ďThis man has a dissociative personality disorder and is losing his sense of identity,Ē I literally hear it as ďthis man has a dissociative personality disorder and is losing his sense of identity,Ē not ďthis fuckerís crazy.Ē I do not care about the speakerís intent, I do not care about my own personal feelings. I care about the literal word-for-word information being presented.

    Irony kinda puts me on edge. Especially when a statement is said with the implication of irony but no apparent indication of irony, as if youíre expected to see some inherent flaw in the idea in a vacuum. In a vacuum, no idea can be right or wrong Ė it depends entirely upon its relationship with other things. Objects are distinguished by their qualities; qualities are determined by interactions between objects.

    But on the topic of irony, I have trouble handling the cognitive dissonance. I shouldnít.


    How do you feel about romance/sex? What qualities do you want in a partner?
    Turns out I have a shitty sex drive. Good thing the relationship in question is intact. I suspect I could try to manipulate what it is that I like, but Iím not certain and TMI.

    All I really want is loyalty. Beggars canít be choosers, itís the sad truth for my case.


    If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?
    I donít want my pissy genes to survive. That would be torture for the heir. No thanks.


    A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward and outward reaction?
    Earlier in life Iíd get really ardent about my own pissy little belief systems that no one cared about. In retrospect I realize it was a psychological defense mechanism of sorts, a projection of my own social alienation and a proposed mystical path to heal it via magical thinking. Basically I wouldíve gotten TRIGGERED because it gave me an adrenalin rush.

    Now I couldnít care less. I deliberately cleansed myself of most of my opinions in the vain hope of becoming more normal. Baby steps. I wouldnít really react these days unless it was a personal attack. But as I see more and more reminders of how despised and suckish I probably am, it builds up. I try to fight my anger because it makes me do fucktarded shit and no one respects me, but it still comes out.


    Describe your relationship to society. How do you see people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.
    I need people around me very badly. People energize me. I push people away.

    Perusing over the shit posted on forums and websites, Iíve realized that people care about the stupidest bullshit. I hear everyone whining and ranting over what video games they donít like, quibbling over which sex acts they want to use, and going up each otherís asses about whatís socially awkward. Iíve held a shitty spot on my social totem pole basically my whole life, at least in terms of where Iím from, but itís taught me that people are too impatient, too picky, too quick to pass judgments based on impulses that Iím forced to restrain. And theyíre not transparent enough.


    How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them?
    Havenít had enough friends to know conclusively. But I know Iím conflicted on who Iíd pick. I wouldnít want someone who sugarcoats or patronizes me, but I naturally drive away anyone more overbearing than that. I would want someone who puts up with my innate shittiness, doesnít pretend these traits arenít there, will stay with me no matter how much punishment I put them through, and, preferably, can advise me on overcoming some of these traits. In the past, even when I had people who could put up with me, Iíd neglect spending time with them because I took so long to do simple tasks and I couldnít really manage my life.

    More recently, Iíve grown suspicious of the few people who can stand to be around me, namely because absolutely no one should want to. But they always come back when I test them. Iíve grown too paranoid.


    How do you behave around strangers?
    Until now, itís like it had never occurred to me that a ďpublicĒ existed.
    My gf and I went to get Chinese takeout and I was literally trying to plan how weíd enter the restaurant and approach the cashier to take our orders. At the counter there was this bench where we sat waiting for our food to be delivered. She was making the same chitchat Iím known for about superficial details in the restaurant environment (e.g. the typography on the menu), and I was just staring into space. Then I moved my head to look in a different direction, and I guess the jerky movement startled the woman at the counter or something. She was all like ďWeíll get your order in a minuteĒ or something, as if Iíd just banged my fist on the counter.
    TL;DR my nervous energy draws negative attention.

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    You're most likely Fi PoLR. Only other option would be Fi DS, and you don't seem emotive enough for Fe Role.

    I'll take a guess and say ILE.

    You turned a Si question into Ne at the start, then skipped the Love question lol.

    Ne is the X/Y axis for time, and Ni is the Z axis. As you move forward in time on the Z axis, you can also move on the X/Y axis as that is your potential direction. As time moves, you get squiggly line going up, as well as a dotted line going up for likely outcomes. The more you Ne, or the more Ne available, the greater the potential changes to time. As an example, Tolkien's setting in LoTR had a great deal of Ne. There were so much potentiality to the world, that the potential outcomes when you first read on Frodo are immeasurable. The story, however, the actual flow forward of time leading to an outcome, was Ni. Early on, Ni says, okay, Frodo is going to keep getting more homo until the end and then have a really homo moment. As a non Ni valuer, I thought the story blew ass. As a Ne valuer, I liked the scope of the world and the potential it contained. Silmarillion had a story/plot that was almost unfollowable due to it encompassing lots of time skips and bajillions of years; however, I preferred it to LoTR, because it was all about building potentiality.

    Here, I fixed this:
    and I was just staring into space. Then I moved my head to look in a different direction, and an Asian girl turned her head looking at me, with the same facial expression I had. Then our eyes both got wide as we both knew that we were both thinking "wtf is wrong with all these people, and since when did so many people exist." Then I ate her tuna.

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    ILE keeps going through my head as I'm reading this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    ILE keeps going through my head as I'm reading this.
    /high five!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    You're most likely Fi PoLR. Only other option would be Fi DS, and you don't seem emotive enough for Fe Role.

    I'll take a guess and say ILE.

    You turned a Si question into Ne at the start, then skipped the Love question lol.

    Ne is the X/Y axis for time, and Ni is the Z axis. As you move forward in time on the Z axis, you can also move on the X/Y axis as that is your potential direction. As time moves, you get squiggly line going up, as well as a dotted line going up for likely outcomes. The more you Ne, or the more Ne available, the greater the potential changes to time. As an example, Tolkien's setting in LoTR had a great deal of Ne. There were so much potentiality to the world, that the potential outcomes when you first read on Frodo are immeasurable. The story, however, the actual flow forward of time leading to an outcome, was Ni. Early on, Ni says, okay, Frodo is going to keep getting more homo until the end and then have a really homo moment. As a non Ni valuer, I thought the story blew ass. As a Ne valuer, I liked the scope of the world and the potential it contained. Silmarillion had a story/plot that was almost unfollowable due to it encompassing lots of time skips and bajillions of years; however, I preferred it to LoTR, because it was all about building potentiality.

    Here, I fixed this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    ILE keeps going through my head as I'm reading this.
    Thanks. Anything on enneagram?

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    I don't follow enneagram, because I think it's an extra retarded way to try and Fi.That said, sx=super-id, sp=super-ego, and so=ego. If I had to guess, you would be either sx/sp or sp/sx, as being So would have you at least moderately conducive to your desires. Super-ego exists as a protection against that which we are not. Ego exists as our natural, and effective way to get our super-id/dual. By admitting the super-ego, we can more clearly see the Ego, and accept that it is our path to our own versions of happiness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by manchild brat View Post
    Thanks. Anything on enneagram?
    As I say to everyone take my insight with a grain of salt because I am not 100% certain, but from a quick scan I would say enneagrams 1,3 and 5 look the most likely. You seem to be moderately concerned about your impact on the world, which suggest enneagram 1. 3 likes the most likely for heart triad because you seem to think a lot about what others think of you, and 5 because I don't see any 6 at all and you don't seem as bouncy as a 7.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    That said, sx=super-id, sp=super-ego, and so=ego.
    I was thinking about what you said here and if you don't mind I'm going to expand upon it with my understanding of it.

    So if you have So first, your Ego takes priority which means you focus on what you already strong at and this creates a lot of excess products from the ego that might as well be shared with society, thus why you become "social". Sx-first focus the most on their inner needs, wants and desires of their super-id, so this is why Sx focus on strong intimate bonds since bonding with a dual can best satisfy our super-id. Sp-first are the most self-conscious of their weakness in the super-ego and take steps to protect themselves against it, thus why they may seem guarded. The Id doesn't have an instinctual stacking because it is not something we have any need to focus on since it is since it strong and when don't want to share it with society either because we don't value it.

    Thinking about it like this makes it more clear in how instinct stackings impact socionic types. For example, thinking about it this way it makes it easier in seeing how a Fe-base type can be So-last. An sp/sx ESE would not be as bubbly and talkative as the stereotypical So-first ESE but you could still their Fe leading in their passionate nature.

    Also, sorry for the minor derail, but would this mean So are more likely to type themselves right the first time since the focus on the ego? Would Sx be more likely to mistype as their duals, activities, semi duals, benefits? Would Sp be more likely to mistype as their quasi-identicals because of the focus on super-ego?

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    Quote Originally Posted by muddytextures View Post
    i was thinking about what you said here and if you don't mind i'm going to expand upon it with my understanding of it.

    so if you have so first, your ego takes priority which means you focus on what you already strong at and this creates a lot of excess products from the ego that might as well be shared with society, thus why you become "social". sx-first focus the most on their inner needs, wants and desires of their super-id, so this is why Sx focus on strong intimate bonds since bonding with a dual can best satisfy our super-id. Sp-first are the most self-conscious of their weakness in the super-ego and take steps to protect themselves against it, thus why they may seem guarded. The Id doesn't have an instinctual stacking because it is not something we have any need to focus on since it is since it strong and when don't want to share it with society either because we don't value it.

    Thinking about it like this makes it more clear in how instinct stackings impact socionic types. For example, thinking about it this way it makes it easier in seeing how a Fe-base type can be So-last. An sp/sx ESE would not be as bubbly and talkative as the stereotypical So-first ESE but you could still their Fe leading in their passionate nature.
    I should point out that these are observations of mine and logical connections between systems, as I don't think Socionists would give even a passing glance to Enneagram. Most of what you say is congruent with my thoughts; however, just using simple definitions highlights the similarities best.

    Ego = Our gift to society
    Super-ego = Our self-preservation in society
    Super-id = Our ideal mate

    Also, sorry for the minor derail, but would this mean So are more likely to type themselves right the first time since the focus on the ego? Would Sx be more likely to mistype as their duals, activities, semi duals, benefits? Would Sp be more likely to mistype as their quasi-identicals because of the focus on super-ego?
    No, not necessarily, as self-awareness in such cases is most likely related to comparisons of essences with society; i.e., Ne and Ji.

    For instance, I identify as sx/sp, or rather mate/societal defense; however, I am consciously aware of both of these, as well as aware of the Ego. Although I spend the primary of my time in the lower dimensions, I am still fully aware of where these things are meant to lead. If one identifies as something, but recognizes no further destination and recognizes the place which he has left, and identifies the two as Ego/Super-ego, then he is most likely correct. If one recognizes where he is and where he is meant to go, and recognizes such as Super-ego/Ego, then he is most likely correct. These distinguishments are most useful for determining fallacies in personal views of the self. One cannot be So/Sx and simultaneously place his "end goal" and current state as super-ego. I haven't really thought through the various fallacies, but if you followed as well as you did in your post, I'm sure you can arrive at them yourself as need be.

    Based upon the article of photo-mashups of instinctual variants, I believe Syn flow is healthy, and contra flow is unhealthy rejection / psychotic state brought upon by forcing oneself into the orthogonal Quadra. The healthiest looking ones are So/Sx, with the correct loop being Sx>Sp>So>Sx, and the most insane looking ones being Sp/Sx. This said, if someone most suredly seems XXX type, and is Contra flow, their "real self" is most likely an Orthogonal type. Sp/Sx types that "seem XXX" in Socionics, are probably actually their conflictor. Or at least, I believe that was the conclusion I came to when I last put thought into it.

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