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Thread: The Skinner Box: A Totalitarian's Wet Dream

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    Default The Skinner Box: A Totalitarian's Wet Dream

    Well now, I thought about this possibility some years ago and prayed the PTB wouldn't figure this particular nightmare out, but Satan's been putting in some overtime it would seem. See, putting us all in camps is a bit too expensive and outrageous. Instead, go with Huxley at his finest and just incentivize being a "model" citizen who doesn't dare think outside the box or contrary to the party line . Obey and get free food! Dissent and be ostracized by friends and family who are all about the free food. Get even more free food by socially forcing the dissenting relative to get with the party line! Genius! Here's a vid that sums it up too.



    I need drinks. Lots of drinks. In fact, I am now going to walk into a bar and drink it. We're fucked, and they're gonna socially murder my ass in about 10 years and nobody will bat an eye because hey, new achievement unlocked: Ostracize a doubleplusungood citizen . Here's to knowing that just by talking to me your "Sesame Score" will take a nosedive in the not too distant future .

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    Actually, I just realized something. This isn't exactly new, but it is "new" in a sense in how it intends to operate. Do "X" and yay, do "Y" and boo. There was only one very big difference...

    Don't know where I'm going yet? Well, lemme spell it out for y'all. See, it all comes down to the timelines on judgement. In one system you get judged only after the time of death. This is actually a good thing, as you can argue and debate endlessly within that framework. You both have a truly neutral arbiter in that debate. Only one way to find out who is right in the end, and we all do that eventually. It's quite fair, and not even the most post-human wannabees can avoid it .

    Then there's "instant" karma handled by very, VERY, mortal actors who delude themselves into believing themselves as gods. This system... Is kinda their own wet dream. No need for concentration camps, assassination attempts, or other such "messy" problems. Just incentivize the isolation of dissidents. This will spawn a counter app where dissent gets points....

    The ultimate divide and conquer scheme is now in place. It's the loyalists vs. the rebels all over again. Only this time, the loyalists actually learned a lesson... FUCK .

    P.S. It's a RELIGION people. Only far more bullshit. At least a religion doesn't go full retard. This coming system... goes full on retard. You really expect me to not see the connection? Dear lord almighty you have gravely underestimated my intelligence and I will make that fact known in the worst way for you ya PTB fucktards .

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    China freaks me out. This is very creepy. And it sounds like something they would do. They already censor anything that disagrees or shows dissention to what the government does. So I guess this is the next logical step for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reactance View Post
    China freaks me out. This is very creepy. And it sounds like something they would do. They already censor anything that disagrees or shows dissention to what the government does. So I guess this is the next logical step for them.
    It's like the vid said, why put em' in camps if you can introduce a system that has it all built in? Oh, you no like the current policies? Well now, you best start liking them, for the sake of your friends and family you see. You'll drag their score down if you don't fall in line, which will make their lives harder, and you wouldn't like that right? It's not that hard, just fall in line, stop spouting your radical ideas, stop doing "bad" things like consume dissident/foreign fiction, saying our "official" numbers don't match reality, and other such unpleasant things. You're so unpleasant in your dissent, so stop it for the sake of all your friends and family! Oh and while your at it please watch intently the advertisements sent out by our favorite megacorporations instead of reading a book as they play (my favorite tactic in defeating Hulu's BS ads, just got through 2 awesome books doing that, hence why I sincerely recommend it as a tactic as you get double culture points ), triple bonus points if you buy the thing mentioned in the ad right after it plays as well, etc... Just be a good sla *cough* I mean "citizen" and everything will be fine!

    I sincerely hope the developers of this rot eternally in hell. They deserve it for trying to manufacture an evil neon god which compels us all to be but cogs in the machine the elite are constructing around us. Be a good serf, the best serf you can be! Maybe, just maybe (actually no not ever if you know how these sick twisted evil fucks actually think), you can be one of the big boy nobles who get to actually benefit from your own blood, sweat, and tears. We need a revolution, before it's too late.
    Last edited by End; 12-23-2015 at 01:55 PM.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    The funny thing is that everyone that clicked like on this post gamified themselves.

    So Reactance, Shay, End, you kind of got owned by the16types.info system.

    The reality is gamification is just a new way of designing the world, and instead of delusions like heaven, we replace them with games which produce things like coins and whatever private currency people wish to invent for their system, it's just a bit of fun, the alternative is always existential conflict, but I prefer to avoid that. It could be like, constructive, warning, whatever. And in every system you encounter this will occur, the mass movement towards private currency isn't new, it's because that system wants control of you in some way.

    The funny thing is that corporate gamification is going to be vastly more powerful in your life then the Chinese system, instead of being a ward of a state you're just going to be a ward of your corporate overlords.

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    This is pretty clever. Social engineering turned up to eleven.

    But to be honest, this barely fazes me because once I realized that life itself (no matter if you're looking at modern life, medieval times or the prehistoric age) is just a huge Skinner Box, there's not much of a difference anymore. But that's just my philosophical view on it. While I'm not denying the fact that this new system could be the immediate cause of very unpleasant consequences for dissidents, it's still the same old oppression in a new packaging.

    Yes, some people will jump on the train an become what can essentially be described as "Kapos" for the communist party, but there will be a group of people who won't buy it. Actually, this system could also make it easier to find like-minded, equally low scoring people (if they don't disable this function at some point, which will probably happen).
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by mu4 View Post
    The funny thing is that corporate gamification is going to be vastly more powerful in your life then the Chinese system, instead of being a ward of a state you're just going to be a ward of your corporate overlords.
    We pretty much already are, and it sickens me that so many are OK with that. They're OK with the notion of just being "taken care of" and not allowed to starve at the cost of their freedom. They're slaves, willing slaves who get nothing out of the system except toxic food, piss poor medical care that doesn't actually cure them of anything (so they must constantly buy megacorp pills), etc. And they're OK with that.

    That's the extinction event. Once that gets going, if it gets going (praying to God this is stopped somehow), H.G. Wells will have essentially become a prophet. I don't much like the notion of my descendants being Morlocks, pisses me off. Oh well, at least their fate sucks too. Morlocks, you see, take the phrase "eat the rich" quite literally, I hope Eloi meat is tasty and tender . So I guess, in the end, Karma always wins. I just may not much like the how of it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pa3s View Post
    Actually, this system could also make it easier to find like-minded, equally low scoring people (if they don't disable this function at some point, which will probably happen).
    You know they would. In fact, that will never be a feature because if ya did you'd have the low score people (i.e. Dissidents) networking. Potential revolutions fomenting and the fact that just the very fact they can network and thus avoid the greater effects of social isolation (which triggers the same centers in the brain as extended torture, fun fact) would actually make the system impotent from a social engineering standpoint. Thus, it's a no go from the overlords from the word go. In fact, by even suggesting that such a function be added to the interface you have proven that you are a potential doubleplusungood citizen, -500 points for you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    We pretty much already are, and it sickens me that so many are OK with that. They're OK with the notion of just being "taken care of" and not allowed to starve at the cost of their freedom. They're slaves, willing slaves who get nothing out of the system except toxic food, piss poor medical care that doesn't actually cure them of anything (so they must constantly buy megacorp pills), etc. And they're OK with that.

    That's the extinction event. Once that gets going, if it gets going (praying to God this is stopped somehow), H.G. Wells will have essentially become a prophet. I don't much like the notion of my descendants being Morlocks, pisses me off. Oh well, at least their fate sucks too. Morlocks, you see, take the phrase "eat the rich" quite literally, I hope Eloi meat is tasty and tender . So I guess, in the end, Karma always wins. I just may not much like the how of it.

    You know they would. In fact, that will never be a feature because if ya did you'd have the low score people (i.e. Dissidents) networking. Potential revolutions fomenting and the fact that just the very fact they can network and thus avoid the greater effects of social isolation (which triggers the same centers in the brain as extended torture, fun fact) would actually make the system impotent from a social engineering standpoint. Thus, it's a no go from the overlords from the word go. In fact, by even suggesting that such a function be added to the interface you have proven that you are a potential doubleplusungood citizen, -500 points for you!
    The world isn't going to end, just you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    We pretty much already are, and it sickens me that so many are OK with that. They're OK with the notion of just being "taken care of" and not allowed to starve at the cost of their freedom. They're slaves, willing slaves who get nothing out of the system except toxic food, piss poor medical care that doesn't actually cure them of anything (so they must constantly buy megacorp pills), etc. And they're OK with that.
    I really don't think it's that bad (yet?). In general, people are lazy opportunists. If the society they live in grants the security they crave and an okay life standard, they're not going to rebel against it. They're focused on their own life and try to make the best of it.

    I can imagine that many people share the need to be free, or at least they'll say that. But what does it actually mean to be free? Living in anarchy?
    What kind of society allows people to be - genuinely - free?
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Four years ago, we seized the opportunity to overthrow a ruthless dictator. Now we have 2000 dictators. --- from an anonymous resident of Raqqa, capital of the Islamic State.
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mu4 View Post
    The world isn't going to end, just you.
    On a long enough timeline the survival rate drops to zero.--Tyler Durden

    I know that Mu, I am not eternal nor do I wish to be in any way. However, the world will change in one of two ways and it will play out even if we don't live to see the deciding moment. Freedom for the common man will die out and we'll get Eloi and Morlocks ruling the Earth in 800,000 A.D., or the PTB will be overthrown and eliminated and for the first time in history humanity will be truly free. How we get to either of those end games is anyone's guess, but that's the dichotomy we face. I pray for the latter, and see the former as a Lovecraftian Nightmare. Sorry, I love freedom, and I'll only surrender when I'm dead. If I die, so be it, but at least I'll have died knowing I tried my best.

    That's what it means to be a real human IMO. No matter what, ya gave it your best shot. Fate's a bitch, Mother Nature's a raging narcissistic cunt, and Darwin is the coldest motherfucker in the universe, but at least ya did your best to flip every one of those people off. That's commendable, a life well spent .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa3s View Post
    I really don't think it's that bad (yet?). In general, people are lazy opportunists. If the society they live in grants the security they crave and an okay life standard, they're not going to rebel against it. They're focused on their own life and try to make the best of it.

    I can imagine that many people share the need to be free, or at least they'll say that. But what does it actually mean to be free? Living in anarchy?
    What kind of society allows people to be - genuinely - free?
    The way I see it, freedom is only a state of mind. People in prison claim to feel freer than they ever did on the streets. I imagine myself as free as I want to be but I am sure others could point out all the ways they think I am not. Other people's ideas of freedom are very different from mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    On a long enough timeline the survival rate drops to zero.--Tyler Durden
    http://phys.org/news/2015-02-sun-won...ion-years.html

    I think humans might want to focus on any Mars projects. It is probably the most viable alternative to earth and doable with the right technology. At least as a short term solution to a sun that will eventually die. A billion years can pass rather quickly and apparently Earth will be uninhabitable way before the sun dies. I think Aliens are more likely to visit before we evolve or devolve into Eloi and Morlocks (or brain eating zombies) though. Zombies are just the "thing" right now. It wasn't long ago when vampires were the "thing". What's next? Aliens will trend again.

    As a sidenote: I just watched Childhood's End. I really liked it. It could have explained some things more in depth but that's ok since it gave me something to think about. I didn't like it so much for the entertainment value but for the philosophical questions that it inspired.

    http://www.syfy.com/childhoodsend <- don't click link if you haven't seen the series and don't want to know what the aliens look like until they are revealed on the show.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    I think society was always something of a big skinner box. Get rewarded for staying in your place and doing what your told.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uncivilized View Post
    I think society was always something of a big skinner box. Get rewarded for staying in your place and doing what your told.
    Right up until you aren't. It works until it doesn't. Pick the wrong side at that moment and behold the guillotine. That's why I still have a shred of hope. The PTB are getting exposed left and right. The revolt is building and I doubt they can stop it. That's the thing about absolute tyranny. See, you can't keep it covert forever. Eventually, you reach a point in which you *must* break out the Jackboots and all the finery of totalitarianism in such a way that you can't hide it anymore.

    At that point, well, all bets are off. Once that point is reached there's no telling who will win out. However, that shit will hit the fan at that moment is a fact. I just wish it'd happen already. I'm getting tired of waiting, I wanna see who wins already!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellyan View Post
    What's next? Aliens will trend again.
    If Aliens ever do invade or reveal themselves I'll have a long list of questions for them. It'll be very important for them to answer correctly, too many wrong answers and I'll conclude that they are malicious. At that point, well, let's just say that primitive tech works just as well today as it did a thousand years ago. Arrows still work, high powered crossbows rival a firearm, and I'd be packing one hell of a hand cannon, so lets see if that body armor/force field can stop this bad motherfucker .

    Actually not sure how it'd all turn out in the end. They would hold high-orbit, the highest ground there is. They could just glass us off the map, hope they don't do that but they'd have that option. Here's to hoping they're nice people who see us as future trading partners as opposed to future slaves and/or an inconvenience to their mining companies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uncivilized View Post
    I think society was always something of a big skinner box. Get rewarded for staying in your place and doing what your told.
    Yeah, that was my point in my earlier post. But it's not just society, everything which has anything to do with (higher) animals is basically governed by those mechanics we can observe in a Skinner Box. Whatever you do, you will either be rewarded or punished by your body chemistry. This is what guides your actions: hormones and your experience with them. That means that you'd refrain from an action if you know that it has caused distress before, or you seek to repeat an action which once proved to be enjoyable. To me, there is not much more to it.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Congratulations, you see the world as it is. Your award ceremony will be on Friday.

    (Big deal)

    You think your epiphany is special or unique?

    Come back in ten years when the existential angst runs its course and you realize you still need to chop wood and carry water like the rest of us.
    "If this to end in fire, then we should all burn together. Watch the flames climb higher into the night."

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    Quote Originally Posted by mu4 View Post
    The funny thing is that everyone that clicked like on this post gamified themselves.

    So Reactance, Shay, End, you kind of got owned by the16types.info system.

    The reality is gamification is just a new way of designing the world, and instead of delusions like heaven, we replace them with games which produce things like coins and whatever private currency people wish to invent for their system, it's just a bit of fun, the alternative is always existential conflict, but I prefer to avoid that. It could be like, constructive, warning, whatever. And in every system you encounter this will occur, the mass movement towards private currency isn't new, it's because that system wants control of you in some way.

    The funny thing is that corporate gamification is going to be vastly more powerful in your life then the Chinese system, instead of being a ward of a state you're just going to be a ward of your corporate overlords.
    Yeah, I mean I guess honestly though we've always had gamification. I mean we get hired for jobs based on work history and how other people rate us, how people feel about us, and how we help other people. I guess that's why I'm looking to do odd jobs for a living once I get out of the Army. I just don't want to be tied into it all like that. Life is too short to have to care so much about what other people think, want, or expect of me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    However, the world will change in one of two ways and it will play out even if we don't live to see the deciding moment. Freedom for the common man will die out and we'll get Eloi and Morlocks ruling the Earth in 800,000 A.D., or the PTB will be overthrown and eliminated and for the first time in history humanity will be truly free.
    Why could it change in only two ways? As far as I know, there are billions of actors in this game, all of which have freedom of choice, if you choose to believe in such.

    How on earth would humanity be free from control, as long as humans themselves exist? Aren't humans the source of the most oppressive systems of control, restrictions of freedoms and will-imposure there ever walked on this planet? You say nature is a bitch, I say at least nature doesn't judge and oppress the way humans do.

    When I was writing this I noticed how clear my asking dichotomy is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neneth View Post
    Why could it change in only two ways? As far as I know, there are billions of actors in this game, all of which have freedom of choice, if you choose to believe in such.

    How on earth would humanity be free from control, as long as humans themselves exist? Aren't humans the source of the most oppressive systems of control, restrictions of freedoms and will-imposure there ever walked on this planet? You say nature is a bitch, I say at least nature doesn't judge and oppress the way humans do.

    When I was writing this I noticed how clear my asking dichotomy is.
    Oh but it does, nature does indeed judge and oppress. Only the fastest, the smartest, the luckiest survive to adulthood to pass on their genes. All subpar sequences are... eliminated. Thing is it's random, prepare all you want then one thing comes in you didn't expect and kablooie, where once you had the best sequences the apparent "loser" is now suddenly the overwhelming winner. Have a nice death!

    At least oppression has a set of rules to follow and, for now at least, a pathway of escape (i.e. move to a country that doesn't hate your guts or doesn't have as totalitarian a government as the one you are fleeing). They are moving to close that loophole of course, but at least it holds true for now. Humans may never be truly free of social control mechanisms (indeed, they cannot help but form them), but at least the mechanisms can be limited to social control. Ostrichization is an effective regulator of group behavior and, as it does not involve violence, a superior one. Hence, why they're trying to harness that power for the purpose of oppression and the elimination of dissent. Killing dissidents causes revolutions and creates martyrs. If they were all simply ignored and limited to the margins of society... now that's the promised land for tyrants and control freaks, and they currently hold power.

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