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    Default Building self esteem

    Do any of you have any tips on how to build self esteem?
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Personal development books, therapy, acting classes.
    Also try to put on a paper your positive sides. Reread them every day and actualize the list every week.
    Make another list with traits you want to improve (not negative sides!) and actualize the list every week.
    You will see that with time you will start actualizing less often.
    Also fake it untill you make it can work as well.

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    My on-the-fly suggestions:

    Set small goals, accomplish them, and congratulate yourself

    Keep a notebook where every night bf bed, you write 3 things you did well that day. Do this for 40 days+ (No tme to look up source at the moment, but this is backed by research, and said to be very effective. You can do the same thing, but write 3 things you're grateful for that day as well, and it's supposed to make you a more thankful, joyful person...research has been done on this as well)

    Go for daily walks (in nature, if possible), and try to empty your mind as you move. Even if you aren't able to get into a meditative state, you will feel better having exercised.

    Help other people

    Learn something new, and master it

    Make your bed and get dressed every day, even if you aren't going out and/or will be alone. It's a very small accomplishment, and easy to accomplish, but always helps ime.

    Keep your personal space neat and free of extra stuff (this one may be just me, and I'm not always good at it...but being in a clean and de-cluttered space feels much better and less stressful than being in a cluttered space w too much stuff around me, and helps me feel more ready and energetic to do whatever I need or want to do. In turn, I actually accomplish things and then feel better about myself)

    Here are more suggestions:

    http://thinksimplenow.com/happiness/...nk+Simple+Now)

    http://zenhabits.net/25-killer-actio...lf-confidence/

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...nd-self-esteem
    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

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    Building self esteem is liking and accepting yourself the way that you are and next communicating to others that that you are a certain way and in that regard prompting others to accept you that way. For example when someone opens a bag of chips in front of me I say "you know I love chips and I can consume the entire bag by myself. It would be best to let me have a few and then take them away from me because eating a whole bag is not good for me and it's something that I don't want to do"

    Good communication is the key.

    I love you Starfall, by the way.

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    Thanks, guys. Coming out of an abusive relationship and my confidence is pretty shattered right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    Thanks, guys. Coming out of an abusive relationship and my confidence is pretty shattered right now.
    *hugs*

    It takes a lot of strength to recognize and then leave an abusive relationship. I hope you realize that and give yourself credit for it <3
    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

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    Go someplace where you can have peace by yourself. Close your eyes. And think. Clear everything else from your mind. And think about the person you envision yourself as you were naturally meant to be. Paint a picture in your mind of you in a scene that makes you think "yes, this is the real me." Hold on to it. Ask yourself what in the world is worth giving that up for. Envision it. Hold on to it. Then open your eyes. Set out into the world knowing the second image is what you are meant to do in it. And no matter how well or poorly you succeed at that... The first image can never be taken from you.

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    solve tasks, do what you like, know yourself, interact with people you like
    don't be too self-accented: feel yourself as part of bigger, have interests about global things, care about tasks of community - make life better on your part, care about other people, have co-feeling with others
    have good feelings to someones and somethings
    Last edited by Sol; 12-23-2015 at 10:27 AM.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Try self-compassion instead of self-esteem.

    There's a famous incident that happened at a conference in Dharamsala, India in 1990 between a group of Western meditation teachers, psychologists, and scientists, and the Dalai Lama. Sharon Salzberg, a well-known American meditation teacher, asked the Dalai Lama: "What do you think of self-hatred?" The Dalai Lama then looked extremely confused and had several back-and-forths with his translator (who also seemed bewildered) before asking the group "How can one hate oneself? I find this very strange." He then asked how many in the room had experienced such a thing, and almost everybody raised their hand.

    This exchange points to the conditioned nature of our minds: the way we think of ourselves and others is highly dependent on the culture we grow up in. That self-hatred is so pervasive in our culture, but completely incomprehensible to someone from another culture, points to something in the water here. The human mind is naturally inclined toward social comparison. It was evolutionarily advantageous for us to be sensitive to any way in which we fell short of or violated the mores and expectations of our tribe, for fear of being ostracised or rejected. For most of human history, being outcast by our group was a matter of life and death: we would lose the benefit of collective knowledge, collective labor, and safety in numbers.

    However, this natural tendency of the mind seems to have become exacerbated by our current culture. Late Capitalism, whatever its merits may be as an economic system, has been poisonous to the human mind. For one thing, it encourages people to view themselves and their lives in commodified terms: we see ourselves as products with a "worth" (or, more baldly put, "market value"); as things to be justified and marketed to everyone from potential romantic partners to employers to friends. This used to operate under the surface, but nowadays we even have people explicitly telling us to "brand ourselves" like corporate entities. It seems that every moment of our lives is an opportunity to judge how "good" of a person we are, like how good a particular brand of ice cream is.

    When we apply to logic of consumerism to our human relations, it creates a very toxic situation mentally. We feel constantly in need of maintaining our market value: to justify to ourselves and to others that we are worthy. But the very idea that we should apply the concept of "worth" in such a nonliteral sense only exists because the culture we live in sanctions such thinking. As it happens, self-esteem is a relatively recent concept. And the emergence of this concept coincides with the emergence of capitalism in the era of mass media. I believe that the self-esteem movement emerged out of a necessity to preserve human sanity in a quickly dehumanizing culture -- the culture of consumerism. In order to survive in this society, we had to construct a way of relating to our world that essentially mimicked narcissism.... because who thrives in this society? Bombastic egotists like Donald Trump.

    This sounds melodramatic, but this is actually the reason psychologists have recently started moving away from self-esteem as an end in itself. The research over the last two decades is showing that self-esteem actually correlated with narcissism and aggression. And there are other studies that show the opposite. How can this be? It's because both low self-esteem and high self-esteem are two sides of the same exact toxic coin: the coin of self- and other-)judgment.

    In the classical Buddhist texts, it is said there are three forms of conceit: 1.) thinking yourself better than another, 2.) thinking yourself worse than another, and 3.) thinking yourself equal to another. When I first heard this teaching, I was kind of blown away. If I can't even think of myself as equal to another, what am I supposed to even do?? The truth is, there is no need to play the game of judging your own worth or value. Instead, try self-compassion: that is, allowing yourself to be perfectly human. It is estimated that over 107 billion people have ever existed on the face of this earth. Every one of them has been imperfect. You are not going to be the first perfect human. Every one of them has dealt with limitation and inadequacy, pain, regret, and the frustration of their own human folly. They still lived out their lives as well as they could. You could rate them all according to some arbitrary value scale... but why bother?

    If you want to learn how to train yourself in self-compassion, there is a really excellent workshop on Youtube of Dr. Paul Gilbert on Compassionate Mind Training. Here is the first video (there are 4):

    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    Try self-compassion instead of self-esteem.

    There's a famous incident that happened at a conference in Dharamsala, India in 1990 between a group of Western meditation teachers, psychologists, and scientists, and the Dalai Lama. Sharon Salzberg, a well-known American meditation teacher, asked the Dalai Lama: "What do you think of self-hatred?" The Dalai Lama then looked extremely confused and had several back-and-forths with his translator (who also seemed bewildered) before asking the group "How can one hate oneself? I find this very strange." He then asked how many in the room had experienced such a thing, and almost everybody raised their hand.

    This exchange points to the conditioned nature of our minds: the way we think of ourselves and others is highly dependent on the culture we grow up in. That self-hatred is so pervasive in our culture, but completely incomprehensible to someone from another culture, points to something in the water here. The human mind is naturally inclined toward social comparison. It was evolutionarily advantageous for us to be sensitive to any way in which we fell short of or violated the mores and expectations of our tribe, for fear of being ostracised or rejected. For most of human history, being outcast by our group was a matter of life and death: we would lose the benefit of collective knowledge, collective labor, and safety in numbers.

    However, this natural tendency of the mind seems to have become exacerbated by our current culture. Late Capitalism, whatever its merits may be as an economic system, has been poisonous to the human mind. For one thing, it encourages people to view themselves and their lives in commodified terms: we see ourselves as products with a "worth" (or, more baldly put, "market value"); as things to be justified and marketed to everyone from potential romantic partners to employers to friends. This used to operate under the surface, but nowadays we even have people explicitly telling us to "brand ourselves" like corporate entities. It seems that every moment of our lives is an opportunity to judge how "good" of a person we are, like how good a particular brand of ice cream is.

    When we apply to logic of consumerism to our human relations, it creates a very toxic situation mentally. We feel constantly in need of maintaining our market value: to justify to ourselves and to others that we are worthy. But the very idea that we should apply the concept of "worth" in such a nonliteral sense only exists because the culture we live in sanctions such thinking. As it happens, self-esteem is a relatively recent concept. And the emergence of this concept coincides with the emergence of capitalism in the era of mass media. I believe that the self-esteem movement emerged out of a necessity to preserve human sanity in a quickly dehumanizing culture -- the culture of consumerism. In order to survive in this society, we had to construct a way of relating to our world that essentially mimicked narcissism.... because who thrives in this society? Bombastic egotists like Donald Trump.

    This sounds melodramatic, but this is actually the reason psychologists have recently started moving away from self-esteem as an end in itself. The research over the last two decades is showing that self-esteem actually correlated with narcissism and aggression. And there are other studies that show the opposite. How can this be? It's because both low self-esteem and high self-esteem are two sides of the same exact toxic coin: the coin of self- and other-)judgment.

    In the classical Buddhist texts, it is said there are three forms of conceit: 1.) thinking yourself better than another, 2.) thinking yourself worse than another, and 3.) thinking yourself equal to another. When I first heard this teaching, I was kind of blown away. If I can't even think of myself as equal to another, what am I supposed to even do?? The truth is, there is no need to play the game of judging your own worth or value. Instead, try self-compassion: that is, allowing yourself to be perfectly human. It is estimated that over 107 billion people have ever existed on the face of this earth. Every one of them has been imperfect. You are not going to be the first perfect human. Every one of them has dealt with limitation and inadequacy, pain, regret, and the frustration of their own human folly. They still lived out their lives as well as they could. You could rate them all according to some arbitrary value scale... but why bother?

    If you want to learn how to train yourself in self-compassion, there is a really excellent workshop on Youtube of Dr. Paul Gilbert on Compassionate Mind Training. Here is the first video (there are 4):

    THIS

    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

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    That's basically the beta/gamma world. Consumerism of Beta and Capitalism of Gamma. Security by collectivism of Beta and dominance of relationships by Gamma. It's basically taking your Se out of the equation to replace it with Ne; focusing less on the psychological boundary that grows or shrinks in comparison to others due to interactions and focusing more on the potentials you carry that are limitless, be it by freedom of beliefs, compassion unto the self, focus on ones own physical well-being, sense of personal accomplishment, or freedom of emotional expression. In Socionics terms, hang with Alpha/Delta some if Beta/Gamma broke you.

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    Self-compassion is good, and in a way it will let you gain self-esteem as you begin to do good things for yourself.

    Get some food that's warm and comforting. Hug batman with love(not as "your" cat but as a living organism deserving of it's own life) then hug yourself inside with the same love.

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    I'm like the last person to ask about self esteem. But coming from a couple years ago, I feel your pain Doll - I was so shattered from shitty, controlling relationships, I could barely BREATHE on my own, let alone make a life for myself. I remember those days..I remember how if feels if I brush up against a past co-abuser and it is....surreal. Surreal that I let them treat me this way, but - I can only go forward. You are aware, I am sure. I appreciate that you Starfall are reaching out to others, because quite simply, you need to cleanse yourself of the negativity of the past. You don't have to hold onto it anymore. Let your wounds bleed and scab and fester, as long as you keep tending them. There is nothing wrong with you. Personally I've found an antidepressant and a sleep aid to be invaluable. Of course I've been criticized from those who don't believe in meds, but no one knows me but me so I get to decide. Meds give me energy and soothe my anxiety - I've actually probably been on some psychotropic or another antidepressant since 17 after a horrible bout of Prednisone, depression, and steroid induced acne. So yeah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    That's basically the beta/gamma world. Consumerism of Beta and Capitalism of Gamma. Security by collectivism of Beta and dominance of relationships by Gamma. It's basically taking your Se out of the equation to replace it with Ne; focusing less on the psychological boundary that grows or shrinks in comparison to others due to interactions and focusing more on the potentials you carry that are limitless, be it by freedom of beliefs, compassion unto the self, focus on ones own physical well-being, sense of personal accomplishment, or freedom of emotional expression. In Socionics terms, hang with Alpha/Delta some if Beta/Gamma broke you.
    Meh... I don't think this is particularly type related, and I find quadra values overemphasized and reductive. I hang out with and have close friends in all four quadras and I don't feel particularly "broken" by my interaction with any of them. Toxic attitudes can exhibited by people of all types, and people of all types can exhibit prosociality or feel uncomfortable with the larger forces which shape society and the psyche.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    Meh... I don't think this is particularly type related, and I find quadra values overemphasized and reductive. I hang out with and have close friends in all four quadras and I don't feel particularly "broken" by my interaction with any of them. Toxic attitudes can exhibited by people of all types.
    I meant it more as "all types have purpose, if you only chill in beta/gamma, it, too, will be toxic." Too much cake makes people sick.

    Edit: The statements I made were accurate and congruent with Socionics, regarding the Quadra, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    I meant it more as "all types have purpose, if you only chill in beta/gamma, it, too, will be toxic." Too much cake makes people sick.
    Fair enough. Although, IME, it's not necessarily toxic to hang out with people from only one quadra, but it may simply foster a lopsided perspective on the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    Edit: The statements I made were accurate and congruent with Socionics, regarding the Quadra, though.
    Sure. The thing is, I've been on this damn forum for 10 years and long ago exhausted Socionics, so forgive me if I'm ornery about the stuff. Too much Socionics, like too much cake, will give you indigestion.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    Fair enough. Although, IME, it's not necessarily toxic to hang out with people from only one quadra, but it may simply foster a lopsided perspective on the world.
    Well, the others still exist in society. If I am chilling with my Delta homies, and my dual finds need of Fi+Se, and I hauled arse away from every SEE supervisor I met, and have no Fi+Se information, then my Dual will go "D=", and if the dual goes "D=" too much then she may go away, and then I will go "D="


    Sure. The thing is, I've been on this damn for 10 years and long ago exhausted Socionics, so forgive me if I'm ornery about the stuff. Too much Socionics, like too much cake, will give you indigestion.
    Made me constipated. Must be too much cheese in socionics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    I meant it more as "all types have purpose, if you only chill in beta/gamma, it, too, will be toxic." Too much cake makes people sick.

    Edit: The statements I made were accurate and congruent with Socionics, regarding the Quadra, though.
    Lol was gonna mention that but looks like @Animal got there 1st. How long you been around here? Animal is at 10 years and I've been here since 2007. Sorry to pull age but we old timers know for a fact Socionics is toxic to your neurons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily View Post
    Lol was gonna mention that but looks like @Animal got there 1st. How long you been around here? Animal is at 10 years and I've been here since 2007. Sorry to pull age but we old timers know for a fact Socionics is toxic to your neurons.
    I'm from the year 2727 and my brain processes 10 times faster than that of you mere 2015 gentlemen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    I'm from the year 2727 and my brain processes 10 times faster than that of you mere 2015 gentlemen.
    Everyone from the future is always smarter than us anyway

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily View Post
    Everyone from the future is always smarter than us anyway
    Ees okay. Plants like water.

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    I realized my attraction to typical self confident muscular bad boys was me just wanting more self confidence in myself... to dualize with something that was missing. I still need a lot of work on my self-confidence, but basically the more I try to do things that I told myself I couldn't (out of weakness or fear) the more my confidence improves.

    You gain confidence via being more direct w/o crossing the line into bullying. Less of a diplomatic people pleaser, which I think is something we both might suffer from.

    As I'm sure you already know, asshole cruel & inhumane people and people who lack self confidence are drawn to each other like magnets as it is two sides of the same coin. Happy healthy people attract happy healthy people... and so it's something to strive for, some inner value that is more important than physical attractiveness.

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    Go to a bar or night club, find the hottest guy there, hit on him reallllly hard, have him thinking hes in love, then leave him with blue balls. Self-esteem = through the roof.

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    The best way to gain self-esteem/confidence is to become capable. A lot of people with low self-esteem have something in their life which is telling them they are not capable, whether it be an abusive partner/parent/friend or an internal "voice" they have created which tells them they can't do something. The best way forward is to eliminate that by questioning it then achieving in order to put that person/voice in place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonare View Post
    The best way to gain self-esteem/confidence is to become capable. A lot of people with low self-esteem have something in their life which is telling them they are not capable, whether it be an abusive partner/parent/friend or an internal "voice" they have created which tells them they can't do something. The best way forward is to eliminate that by questioning it then achieving in order to put that person/voice in place.
    Damn

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonare View Post
    The best way to gain self-esteem/confidence is to become capable. A lot of people with low self-esteem have something in their life which is telling them they are not capable, whether it be an abusive partner/parent/friend or an internal "voice" they have created which tells them they can't do something. The best way forward is to eliminate that by questioning it then achieving in order to put that person/voice in place.
    And the ones with debilitating daddy fixations? Achieving healthy transference to a more appropriate object of desire?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    And the ones with debilitating daddy fixations? Achieving healthy transference to a more appropriate object of desire?
    Women that have/had a crush on their father don't particularly have low self-esteem from what I've seen, in fact they tend to have rather good standards. It's typically the ones who didn't recieve enough male attention that end up with low self-esteem. In this case women want to feel capable of getting high value male attention so they can fill the void left by their father's lack of it, ideally by finding a man whose attention is very difficult to acquire at first, but is consistent enough to fill the void in her self-esteem afterward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonare View Post
    Women that have/had a crush on their father don't particularly have low self-esteem from what I've seen, in fact they tend to have rather good standards. It's typically the ones who didn't recieve enough male attention that end up with low self-esteem. In this case women want to feel capable of getting high value male attention so they can fill the void left by their father's lack of it, ideally by finding a man whose attention is very difficult to acquire at first, but is consistent enough to fill the void in her self-esteem afterward.
    Well, I was more thinking of the ones who would have low self-esteem unconsciously competing with their mother for their father deep into adulthood, rather than the more normal moving on to other males.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    Well, I was more thinking of the ones who would have low self-esteem unconsciously competing with their mother for their father deep into adulthood, rather than the more normal moving on to other males.
    I'm not too sure tbh, but I still think what I said before still applies here. Low self-esteem can be countered by becoming more capable, and if a woman has low self-esteem and competes with her mother for her father then chances are it's because she doesn't think she can get the same level of attention or greater from elsewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonare View Post
    I'm not too sure tbh, but I still think what I said before still applies here. Low self-esteem can be countered by becoming more capable, and if a woman has low self-esteem and competes with her mother for her father then chances are it's because she doesn't think she can get the same level of attention or greater from elsewhere.
    Potentially, but objects of desire are close to the heart. If the child becomes deeply attached to the parent, someone else simply not being the same exact person as the parent prevents the movement to a more appropriate and available object of affection.

    I've encountered your previous example, with a "vision of a father" as the object of attraction in cases of absence or neglect, but I've also encountered this as well. The direct achievement is denied by obvious reasons, then pushed back into the recesses of the psyche, so the correct form of achievement which is transference to an appropriate mate is blocked by the inability to trace back to the source. They may see "the mother conflict is the bad," and attempt to change it, but the underlying issue of the father still remains.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    Potentially, but objects of desire are close to the heart. If the child becomes deeply attached to the parent, someone else simply not being the same exact person as the parent prevents the movement to a more appropriate and available object of affection.

    I've encountered your previous example, with a "vision of a father" as the object of attraction in cases of absence or neglect, but I've also encountered this as well. The direct achievement is denied by obvious reasons, then pushed back into the recesses of the psyche, so the correct form of achievement which is transference to an appropriate mate is blocked by the inability to trace back to the source. They may see "the mother conflict is the bad," and attempt to change it, but the underlying issue of the father still remains.
    Those issues will always remain, but just like how wounds heal but leave scars, the hole left by an absentee parent can be filled but not cease to exist.

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    Yeah. Good discussion. I've enjoyed it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    And the ones with debilitating daddy fixations? Achieving healthy transference to a more appropriate object of desire?
    Has this been a problem with women you date?

    I have known more men with debilitating mommy fixations than women with daddy issues since several of my friends ended up in such situations. I have heard a lot about these strange kind of attractions to the mother that never end. It is enough to make someone's self esteem plummet if a man wants to spend more time with a parent, than them, especially his mom. If they are prone to low self esteem that is.

    These were/are (?) the kind of men who would call their mom when they were sick to come take care of and baby them, even when their partner was willing to care for them. They would call their mom when they needed advice on little things (like what to wear or what movie to see) before going to their partner/wife. Men who call their mom to bring them food behind their partner's backs because they don't want to cook for themselves. Men who trusted their mom to take better care of their children than the child's mother.

    My previous best friend was in such a situation and it drove her crazy because they had a child and her bf's mother did nothing but interfere. She later married this guy because she invested a few years already, I told her it was a bad move and asked, "what about the years you have left... " She knew it was a mistake and agreed with me but married him anyway. She is ESI and he is EII. The sweetest guy ever but always depressed. Real clinical kind of depression too so I have empathy for him. He was bullied in most relationships before he met my friend and he had poor self esteem even though his mother treated him like god's gift to the world and never forced him to fend for himself. He even took their laundry to his mother, instead of doing it himself, while my friend worked all day and he stayed home with the daughter.

    My friend was treated like dirt by her own father and hated him. She left home at 15 but she still went to her mother for everything and ignored her dad when she was there. She ended up venting for hours to her mother, and sometimes me, over this guy for years. She attributed her own low self esteem to the way her dad treated her growing up (he was a drunk who called her ugly and useless). Her self esteem only got worse once she got into a relationship with a momma's boy. I heard through a friend she is now separated and he has the child at his mom's. She finally gave up the battle against her mother in-law.

    I think being able to respect and appreciate the advice and help of your parent, of either gender, whether you are male or female, makes romantic relationships easier and healthier but going to a parent before a so, once you're in a committed relationship, is just weird to me. I wonder if this is more common in infantile men and women without caregiver partners? I have not been in a relationship with an infantile man.

    I didn't let my parent, of either gender, come between me and a partner. The guys I got into relationships with, as an adult, put me before their mothers, in appropriate ways, without me asking. I would not ask someone to choose a parent over me but I am pretty vocal about what I would and wouldn't put up with and I can't do momma's boys.

    I can "compete" with other women but I sure as hell will not compete with a man's mother for his affection. However, I do believe that a man's opinion and respect for his mother can be indicative of how he treats you in the relationship. Pay attention to how a guy speaks about and treats his mother and you will learn a lot about what you are in store for. This hasn't failed for me yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Has this been a problem with women you date?

    I have known more men with debilitating mommy fixations than women with daddy issues since several of my friends ended up in such situations. I have heard a lot about these strange kind of attractions to the mother that never end. It is enough to make someone's self esteem plummet if a man wants to spend more time with a parent, than them, especially his mom. If they are prone to low self esteem that is.

    These were/are (?) the kind of men who would call their mom when they were sick to come take care of and baby them, even when their partner was willing to care for them. They would call their mom when they needed advice on little things (like what to wear or what movie to see) before going to their partner/wife. Men who call their mom to bring them food behind their partner's backs because they don't want to cook for themselves. Men who trusted their mom to take better care of their children than the child's mother.

    My previous best friend was in such a situation and it drove her crazy because they had a child and her bf's mother did nothing but interfere. She later married this guy because she invested a few years already, I told her it was a bad move and asked, "what about the years you have left... " She knew it was a mistake and agreed with me but married him anyway. She is ESI and he is EII. The sweetest guy ever but always depressed. Real clinical kind of depression too so I have empathy for him. He was bullied in most relationships before he met my friend and he had poor self esteem even though his mother treated him like god's gift to the world and never forced him to fend for himself. He even took their laundry to his mother, instead of doing it himself, while my friend worked all day and he stayed home with the daughter.

    My friend was treated like dirt by her own father and hated him. She left home at 15 but she still went to her mother for everything and ignored her dad when she was there. She ended up venting for hours to her mother, and sometimes me, over this guy for years. She attributed her own low self esteem to the way her dad treated her growing up (he was a drunk who called her ugly and useless). Her self esteem only got worse once she got into a relationship with a momma's boy. I heard through a friend she is now separated and he has the child at his mom's. She finally gave up the battle against her mother in-law.

    I think being able to respect and appreciate the advice and help of your parent, of either gender, whether you are male or female, makes romantic relationships easier and healthier but going to a parent before a so, once you're in a committed relationship, is just weird to me. I wonder if this is more common in infantile men and women without caregiver partners? I have not been in a relationship with an infantile man.

    I didn't let my parent, of either gender, come between me and a partner. The guys I got into relationships with, as an adult, put me before their mothers, in appropriate ways, without me asking. I would not ask someone to choose a parent over me but I am pretty vocal about what I would and wouldn't put up with and I can't do momma's boys.

    I can "compete" with other women but I sure as hell will not compete with a man's mother for his affection. However, I do believe that a man's opinion and respect for his mother can be indicative of how he treats you in the relationship. Pay attention to how a guy speaks about and treats his mother and you will learn a lot about what you are in store for. This hasn't failed for me yet.
    Well, it depends on the "class" I am pulling from. Lower income brackets and associated social indicators are more prone to it. It's pretty easy to pick up on pretty quickly.

    What you're describing is more like regular dependency and attachment issues than psychosexual.

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    Try challenging yourself by not relying on externals (money, looks, etc).

    For example, try chatting it up with a hot girl with messy hair, a plain t-shirt, and dirty shoes if you're used to relying on your looks.

    You do this enough, and you'll develop strong internals/self-esteem over time.

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