EIE Men / ENFj males
So, I recently went with LSI as my type instead of SLE-Ti. So that would make EIE my dual. What should I be looking for in EIE men? And is it true that they can be manipulative? Because that shit won't fly with me. How will I spot them and not scare them off?
LSI-Se 836 Sp/Sx
What should I be looking for in EIE men? Brooding, arrogant assholes seem to fit the bill more often than not. Or more vanilla versions are of the Frasier Crane pedagogical pompous asshole variety you'll find in educational arenas.
Manipulative? Aren't we all in some way? EIEs just do it better. It can either be endearing and charming or narcissistic and abusive. Depends on your own boundaries and how much you put up with it. Some will respect those boundaries once established as a form of stability. The ones who consistently don't? Well then shame on you for staying with them, then.
How to spot them? Don't know because I find it difficult to "spot" my dual, we mostly just gravitate towards one another irl.
Not scare them off? Humor and consistency.
My dual sounds horrible lolOriginally Posted by Bain
LSI-Se 836 Sp/Sx
Oh we are, we are indeed. But so are LSIs, who are basically lifeless turds with eyes, so no biggie.
Quit it!
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Lol quit what?
Lmao
LSI-Se 836 Sp/Sx
Shape them.
What?
LSI-Se 836 Sp/Sx
Just interact like normal to encourage people to behave well.
http://www.hubspot.com/sales/how-to-...people-summary
Don't let their bullshit slide but shift them towards the right track. Less is more. Guide people where you want them to go, and allow them to fall into your grooves.
They like categoriesthey are generally great with children and have a lively external emotionality. They can gauge trustworthiness of people based on their ability to want to read people so that their intentions and motives may be found out. Look for someone who has a wide range of emotions.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
inspiration
like all F typesAnd is it true that they can be manipulative?
You need to have a strong logic. As Satan said, don't let their bs slides, stay true to whatever you think is logical.
My personal experience shows that my interaction with a guy IRL (whom I type LSI) who cannot take bullshit at all and who is really grounded with reality is all good for me. Moreover, he can keep up with all the bs I throw to him, I wonder how the fuck he handles that but w/e.
Main point is what I said above, don't let the bs slides. From the way I see it, if you're LSI you're supposed to act like that by default. My view of the thing is that you are who you are, stay true to w/e the fuck you believe and at some point you'll find something you like. Also, make up your own decisions, stop relying on other people to tell you what to do and all will be fine.
In the end, what I want to say is, socionics is not real life, behave as you want to, at some point you'll meet someone you like.
In addition to that, if you want to try out dem socionics skills, Satan is saying coherent things here from what I've experienced. From what I know, EIE can be moody fuckers who whines like little pussies and 2 mins later act like they are strong and all. IMO, it takes someone special to keep up with that shit lol (ofc, this behaviour may vary in intensities and whatnot, but overall it's how it goes).
Fuck the bullshit. I dumped an EIE (didn't know he was EIE until I read up on it recently), because he was so full of shit. More shit fell from his mouth than an overloaded diaper. I put up with him for two months but there's nothing an LSI can do for a serious narcissist. If that's what I have to put up with to be with my dual than fuck it I'll find a better type.
LSI-Se 836 Sp/Sx
He can to have other type also. Mistyping is not rare.
Even if he'd was your dual, - there is a difference between people of same type, so you may like people of same type with different degree.If that's what I have to put up with to be with my dual than fuck it I'll find a better type.
If you just want to date, let me recommend an LIE. LIE's and LSI's get along pretty well, feel comfortable around each other, and have a great deal of respect for each other. We are each faithful, kind, courteous, brave, practical, no-nonsense, direct, etc., and are compatible in bed. Both the LSI's I have dated are great people, and I think I can say we even have the L-word going. (Once you achieve the L-word in your life, you are capable of doing it with others. It is like learning to dance.) But, be aware that LIE's are LSI's Mirage partners, and as good as it is between Mirage partners, and it can be very very good, there is a reason it is called Mirage.
As for EIE's, my LII sister dated one but did not marry him, but they have stayed lifelong and best friends. (They are semi-duals, and Victim and Care-Receiver are not that sexually compatible). Despite what Bain says, I found the guy to be pretty great. My sister brought him home to meet our parents, and he showed very well, even though I thought he was really nervous and trying desperately to hide it.
At the time, I didn't understand why he did it, but he went out of his way to become friends with me, her brother. (Socionics says that LSI don't connect with someone until that person is friends with their friends - the LSI I'm seeing showed me to her family the fourth time we saw each other - so the EIE was instinctively treating my LII sister's family the way he would treat his LSI dual's family.)
I thought he was so friendly that he had to be a lightweight. He drove this rusty piece of junk car that had broken rear springs, and he asked me if I wanted to visit Sandusky that afternoon (100 miles away), and I said I didn't think I had the time it would take to drive there, and he said, We can take my plane. We drove to the airport and he had an Aztec sitting in the hangar. He did a very thorough flight check, we flew to Sandusky, had a drink, and flew back. It was a blast.
So, not all EIE's are write-offs. Some are very good people. Plus, as Satan said, you are uniquely built to keep an EIE legally between the fences when they tend to go seriously off-road. I see this in the LSI I'm seeing. She keeps expecting to find EIE behavior, and can't believe I'm not doing something behind her back. She checks and verifies and calls me on anything she (mistakenly) thinks is out of the ordinary while at the same time respecting my independence, and is generally smart as hell and a lot of fun. Too bad this is a Mirage, and I can't give Fe and she can't give Fi.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 12-24-2015 at 04:41 PM.
Very well said. You pretty much explained why I' look for LIE but didn't know why. I admire that they tend to have their shit together but I'll have to remind them that they're shirt needs ironing or they might be burning themselves out, sounds kinda Si in a way but it's to maintain external order, not internal homeostasis. But LIE seems to be on the ball with keeping their homes, cars, and appliances in order. They also talk in way that's orderly but interesting, using metaphors sparingly but to the point. Yes, I do like me some LIE from time to time. Very good humored balanced with seriousness.
I most likely wouldn't write off EIE but I sure did write off the guy I mentioned. He might not have been EIE, he could have just mirrored what he suspected I would click with, as the sociopath that he was. I really digged how mature and socially smooth he was, seemed "proper" in dress and talk, but could be a complete clown and have me in stitches. He would have made a great stand up comedian or talk show host, just had a way with people, but, that's what made him just a good con-artist. If I knew then what I know now about sociopaths I would have ignored him but I had fallen for him months before he showed interest in me and when he did I thought it might be love, didn't know he was pulling those strings on a lot of girls I knew at the time. So, he might have just been "pretending" to be my dual (maybe without knowing socionics terms, but knowing them instinctively). Now I have all of these militant rules and obstacles men have to jump through to date me. Friendship first, no wining about the friendzone, I pay for all my meals and if you "forget" your wallet then you're fucked, I drive myself everywhere, we have to get to know each others' friends' and families', we don't meet up at each others' place (don't ever suggest netflix and chill), must get tested for every STD/STI under the sun, show me test results, ALWAYS wear protection, no moving in together, no joint bank accounts, no co-signing any sort of paper, and through all of this I will be listening to and memorizing anything said so as to not miss a single red flag, mixed signals, gas lighting, manipulating, inconsistencies, and it allows me to ask the right questions. Sound extreme? Maybe, but it works, as long as I'm fun to be around and we are getting to know each other it works out, as long as his intentions are good and he's interested in me this is never a problem. If a guy protests and show frustration and trys to "wear me down" I know to move on and find someone better. So, this was long winded but I've found that the more I practice discipline and discernment the less bullshit I have to deal with, I didn't use to filter out people but when I do I end up meeting the coolest people. Hopefully a healthy EIE wouldn't even notice I was "filtering" him through my "scanner". I once compared myself to Gus Fring from Breaking Bad when he was watching Walt and Jesse for the first time without their knowing and he wrote them off lol.
LSI-Se 836 Sp/Sx
Lol I met one like that too not too long ago but as soon as I caught him lying, I was done with him. But no, this isn't type related, being full of shit. It's just that EIE does it differently from other types.
That sounds more soc-first instinct than anything.
I don't know what you mean by "EIE behaviour" here but I don't exactly put up with unreliable guys. So no, this going off-road doesn't work with me unless I misunderstand what you mean by this.Plus, as Satan said, you are uniquely built to keep an EIE legally between the fences when they tend to go seriously off-road. I see this in the LSI I'm seeing. She keeps expecting to find EIE behavior, and can't believe I'm not doing something behind her back. She checks and verifies and calls me on anything she (mistakenly) thinks is out of the ordinary while at the same time respecting my independence, and is generally smart as hell and a lot of fun. Too bad this is a Mirage, and I can't give Fe and she can't give Fi.
So you found out about him doing it with other girls too?
Lol, the part on you listening and remembering everything, you are no more extreme than I am it seemsSo, he might have just been "pretending" to be my dual (maybe without knowing socionics terms, but knowing them instinctively). Now I have all of these militant rules and obstacles men have to jump through to date me. Friendship first, no wining about the friendzone, I pay for all my meals and if you "forget" your wallet then you're fucked, I drive myself everywhere, we have to get to know each others' friends' and families', we don't meet up at each others' place (don't ever suggest netflix and chill), must get tested for every STD/STI under the sun, show me test results, ALWAYS wear protection, no moving in together, no joint bank accounts, no co-signing any sort of paper, and through all of this I will be listening to and memorizing anything said so as to not miss a single red flag, mixed signals, gas lighting, manipulating, inconsistencies, and it allows me to ask the right questions. Sound extreme? Maybe, but it works, as long as I'm fun to be around and we are getting to know each other it works out, as long as his intentions are good and he's interested in me this is never a problem. If a guy protests and show frustration and trys to "wear me down" I know to move on and find someone better. So, this was long winded but I've found that the more I practice discipline and discernment the less bullshit I have to deal with, I didn't use to filter out people but when I do I end up meeting the coolest people. Hopefully a healthy EIE wouldn't even notice I was "filtering" him through my "scanner". I once compared myself to Gus Fring from Breaking Bad when he was watching Walt and Jesse for the first time without their knowing and he wrote them off lol.
mirage is rather boring compared to duals
That's not EIE. He was another type, displaying EIE-like stuff to fulfill his narcissism. Narcissists are typically SLE, in my opinion.
@LSI Stripper
They're manipulative, but not in the conventional way. If you're LSI, you wouldn't consider it to be manipulation. It would just be "acting normal and attractive." Generally speaking, EIE are the ones that crave slavery over themselves. Goes like this: Some emotionally enthusiastic outlook on something that can shape the future for the better, LSI turns this normally fruity and half-baked idea into something that actually makes some sort of realistic sense and can institutionalize it into the existing system, EIE feels like they've just been Dominated and get sexually/emotionally subservient. E.g., EIE: Hey they've had this great thing on TV about Hawaii and this Cultural Festival, and I have all these plans on how great this will be, it's going to be really good for us, and we can go this weekend and ..... LSI: We can't go this weekend, because the flights will be sold out, and it isn't the right time of year for the Cultural Festival, so we need to look at the schedules, find a hotel that costs the right amount of money, make reservations.... The EIE gets forceful structure and the LSI gets to be a part of a happy and significant event. This becomes part of their yearly institutions.
@Jeremy8419
Ohhhhh ok that makes more sense. Yeah that doesn't seem like manipulation to me.
LSI-Se 836 Sp/Sx
@LSI Stripper
"Manipulation" for various people, I believe refers to the destruction of the primary program (Leading) of the individual by means which seem like "breaking the rules."
For instance, my cognition style (and yours) by Gulenko is Casual-Deterministic, a style which is constantly connecting the dots (of whatever it may be). My Conflictor is Holographic, a style which is constantly turning the tables.
For me, some types, such as EIE do appear manipulative, because they are overusing what is in my Id against people who are weak to such (like taking a rocket launcher to a knife fight). Although some, such as Obama, use "Hamlet"-mode to entrap people in emotional cycles, demagoguery, to create a deep and personal "connection," it does not "anger" me, because my Id is stronger than their Ego, and I am easily able to counter their manipulation in my sphere of influence.
However, when someone uses Holographic logic (my logic lacking the situationality to keep up), it seems like manipulation to me and simultaneously makes me angry. Why? Because it is like playing chess, connecting all the dots of what needs to happen, and then having the other player randomly turn the board around and act like it's perfectly normal to play chess and switch sides whenever he wants. Sticking to logic will increasingly make me angry, as the opponent endlessly switches sides, making it impossible to win. Using CD Fi-Ne, however, will instantly make me win at what the OPPONENT sees as "the real game," by connecting all the dots to tell him why he feels the need to change sides. E.g., "Well, you switched sides a few times, so I figured that winning must be really important to you for some reason, so I stopped trying after 3 minutes." "Nuh! Uh! I won! I did! I did! *stomps feet*" "And you wonder why I stopped trying? Lol" "AHHHHHHHH!!!! I HATE YOU!!!!!"
In your case, with EIE, it would never seem like manipulation to use significant events and flow of events situationally to create positive emotional stuff in others to feel connected. Why? Because the only thing your primary programming is "missing" is specifically that.
For example, coworker (EIE) has his day to give a topic at our daily work meeting the other day. Hardass boss (LSI) been feeling rough and getting increasingly stringent in his rule-making and enforcing. Don't believe I had seen him laugh in a few days. Coworker gives topic on drinking and the holidays and safety. He's all smiling while talking about it. Goes off on stories of potential things happening (like a made-up future-story) and the better alternative stories of great holidays. Whole time keeps rementioning drinkin and alcohol. Sounds like a goofy tard trying to make people happy with his oratory, in my opinion. Boss is smiling. Guy keeps talking. At the end, boss says, well, if you keep talking about drinking and the holidays so much, I might have to start worrying about you, and busts out laughing. Coworker laughs. Other betas laugh. Non-orthogonal coworkers grin. Orthogonal ones think its retarded. Boss then says, that is a good topic though... And proceeds to actually structure it into something with a logical point and some foundation other than "hahaha drinking and holidays and lets be happy and not have a bad time." EIE gets some structure enforced to his Hamlet-iness, and LSI gets some emotional joy in his structures. Generally speaking, EIE can accept (and is happy to) all the Rules that are Forced on him, while the LSI can do what he does and accept all the Emotions and Time given towards his ability to Force Rules. Normally, without EIE, the LSI will find that no one is going to do shit he says, no matter what Force he applies, because they aren't Happy and they Remember the Events that have proceeded via his Rules.
In another example, I actually know an EIE stripper. When I act in the Super-Ego, that is, behaving like a logical hardass (LSI), she basically tries to make-out with me and start halfway having sex while she is on stage. She is sensing that I have strict rules and force behind them. Basically, she gets "daddy issues" in my presence, and wants hang on me and be called a bad/good girl, and be told exactly what she's going to do and that's simply how it's going to be. She's nice, and I'm not actually LSI, so if she starts getting too into our interactions, I just switch to Ego and she cools her jets once she sees that I am about imploring (Ne) emotional understanding (Fi) and not about forcing (Se) logical systems (Ti.)
You'll find that your Super-Ego type, EII, ACTUALLY EII, are good to talk to and deal with. Their end goals and means may be seemingly opposite, but the end-results are quite similar. Both want stable relationships, one of matter and one of energy. At work, most my supervisors are LSI. We want things to be stable and progress slowly and uniformly. Only half the people value Ti, so they require EII to stabilize the other half, and vice-versa. EII will generally seem like a quiet, independent, peaceful, soft-hearted version of yourself. Their thought process (CD) and "end effect" will be nearly identical to your own, just meant for the opposite half of society. If they don't make sense, or sound like their brain is broken, or something along those lines, they won't be EII.
@Myst Lol, I should have been this extreme my whole dating career and I'm only going to become more extreme while I simultaneously improve myself to attract higher quality men. And yes, I found out he was paying for cheap hos on backpages and fucking my co-workers on a near daily basis, and wouldn't fuck me and I thought it was my fault. Was devastated, and he gave me an STI and I couldn't fuck until it was cured and when we were together he would reject my advances so during this whole disaster I'm needing a good fuck, so frustrating!! Wasted my time & energy on guy I loved and didn't mind his small dick and him being 19 years older, I really thought he was a sweetheart but I wasted my time on a dud.
@Jeremy8419 He could have been SLE. My brother thought he was ENFp or ESFp for some reason tho, I forget why.
LSI-Se 836 Sp/Sx
Lol, good.
Um, what about love?? Isn't that, like, the most necessary ingredient? You are going no where fast with EIE if they don't love you, or you don't love them. If they don't love you, then they may date you, but there will always be a level of manipulation going on: "victims unconsciously knowing who and what they are looking for."
Your standards are good. Great. You have standards. Everyone who values themselves do. Your standards are born from experience. Good, they should be.
But if they don't jive with EIE feeling love towards you, they are not going to cut loose (a process that happens over time to see that you won't send them off as they reveal themselves to you). Remember this is the romantic quadra, your activator is a god damn poet for christ sakes.
And in regards to "manipulation" blah blah, keep in mind, just because someone is having "feelings", or heaven fucking forbid, some "emotions", does not mean they are emo, nor not genuine and authentic. Nor does it mean they are manipulating you. Duality is equally matched. What you should see happening is so-called manipulation moving further towards equal reciprocity.
People can genuinely feel a spark. If you haven't felt that spark then you do not know yet, what you are taking about.
Love goes without saying. Taking preventive measures against infatuation getting the better of me and being blinded to red flags doesn't mean I'm not looking for love. Like I said "it works as long as I'm fun to be around and we're getting to know each other." Getting to know someone before getting dizzy from oxytocin doesn't mean I did away with love.
LSI-Se 836 Sp/Sx
Cool. I'm glad to see you think that. Because then I could not help but agree with you. I think in general Beta STs at times lack a kind of filter in regards to who is right and wrong for them. They get into these things, then get burned maybe, then have little internal framework in which to work through what happened. So they blame the wrong set of circumstances, they blame the other person, they blame "the fates", when it all could have been a matter of getting in touch with their priorities. Getting in touch with what they want, or even coming to understand what the other person did, or who they are, where they are coming from, and where they want to be going.
(BTW love is not entirely the chemicals - there is a practical side and a spiritual component to it as well)
^ST see these shiny objects and they just have to have them...without considering they might be a pandoras box once opened.
And Beta NFs know they are this pandoras box. So they reveal themselves slowly, incrementally. That is their ethical program - to not be put at a disadvantage. And by the time all the little devils are out of the box its too late for the STs, they are already caught at that point. They have already fallen. NFs know this, and so put on a best face until they can send the feelers out and make sure they won't be sent off with the crazy. And by the time that is revealed sometimes the crazy has been worked through, together, so that it is not so crazy anymore.
@wacey Sounds legit. I'm at that point where I'm like, "Same shit different day? Perhaps I'm the common denominator. I need to upgrade my firewalls and software programs." And you're on point with the Pandora comparison, that has been my experience. As soon as I start reading the small print in the NFs I'm like, "I didn't sign up for this shit! I'm out."
LSI-Se 836 Sp/Sx
Did you leave out a "hahaha" at the end of that? Lol
?
LSI-Se 836 Sp/Sx
When I was reading this
I was expecting thisSounds legit. I'm at that point where I'm like, "Same shit different day? Perhaps I'm the common denominator. I need to upgrade my firewalls and software programs." And you're on point with the Pandora comparison, that has been my experience. As soon as I start reading the small print in the NFs I'm like, "I didn't sign up for this shit! I'm out."
LolSounds legit. I'm at that point where I'm like, "Same shit different day? Perhaps I'm the common denominator. I need to upgrade my firewalls and software programs." And you're on point with the Pandora comparison, that has been my experience. As soon as I start reading the small print in the NFs I'm like, "I didn't sign up for this shit! I'm out." hahaha
Anyways....
Sounds heavily LIE: Seeking ESI to wall off from and protect from bad relationships.Sounds legit. I'm at that point where I'm like, "Same shit different day? Perhaps I'm the common denominator. I need to upgrade my firewalls and software programs." And you're on point with the Pandora comparison, that has been my experience. As soon as I start reading the small print in the NFs I'm like, "I didn't sign up for this shit! I'm out."
I assume you are trying to draw a parallel between the actions of an LSI and an LIE. Seems kind of a stretch to me, especially since I'm seeking ESI because they are so damn' cute.
No, that was me pointing out the post was a request for Fi-Se. Fi-Se breaks relationships by setting up a boundary. ESI turtles.
"Cute" is really not what the "aggressor" types are like, especially the "negativist" aggressors like ESIs. Even the Fi-ESIs, who present themselves as stable, even, balanced and calm, at some point turn to pressing, as I heard an Fi-ESI housemate tell her (non-dual EJ) boyfriend "to obey her" many times - and there's really nothing "adorable" in all this attempt to press him to obey her (although it tends to be unexpected, and perhaps satisfying and sexually inviting to the LIEs).
^ http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ion-(Filatova)If she manages to make someone obey – she secretly feels satisfied but does not openly show this.
She sounds like a bitch. Being a bitch is not type related. Even though there are people (here) that like to pretend it is.
@silke
You can disagree with me and that is fine. I respect your knowledge and experience, greatly, especially giving appreciation towards your large database of translations. I have seen your expressed attitudes towards ESI, for example the Dr Phil episode, for several years. In general the overall feel might be right, but you fail to notice many nuances regarding FiSe and I am, frankly, a little irritated in seeing them.
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