**40q** ESE? EIE? SLE? Something else? All opinions welcome!

[Muddy]

When I'm up for it I'll give an explanation but for now I'm going with EIE.

[wacey]

I don't know, personally don't read these typically. I like your organized tabs, though.

[darya]

Where did you get the idea you're Fe-leading type or even ethical in the first place? Did you test as ESE or something ?

[darya]

I don't have that idea. Like I said in the OP, the types in the title are not more likely than any others. What makes you think I'm not Fe-lead or ethical, though?

Lol, sorry, I haven't noticed the part in bold. Your questionaire makes me think that. There's all this emphasis on gathering knowledge, system buiding, troubleshooting, being afraid of physical confrontations and concerned with security in general- LII maybe? You also sound like you are allergic to Se.

[Sol]

Any help is really appreciated

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1096450

[Sol]

I don't care enough to do all that.

then you don't care enough to be typed correctly with good probability, as there are no other ways

[darya]

No problem, thanks... LII is possible, however, I think my answer is quite superficial, isn't it? Doesn't that suggest lower dimensionality Ne?

Wish I could be some kind of Se type but unfortunately I agree...

You seem to be a mix of e5 and e6 from your answers. I don't see Ni ego and you're clearly logical imo. LSI somehow doesn't fit either, so all I could imagine you as was LII, all else is problematic for one reason or another. But if you say you can't relate to Ne at all, I really don't know : ) Don't you have at least a vague idea which IE's you use and which you don't?

[Sol]

mb ESFP

[Muddy]

@darya @Sol @Muddytextures I caved in and decided to post a video after all! I answered a shorter questionnaire, as a supplement to the 40q. Video is 15 minutes long. What do you think? Any further input/insight is much appreciated! http://vimeo.com/151458184

My impression from the video was also EIE. You have an overflow of energy in your speech and never make any long pauses which to me is a clear indicator of the passionate communication characteristic of Ethical Extraverts. I do not think you are SEE, I know Se when I see it and I am not getting any of that from you. Fe base seems far more likely, and judging from the questionnaire N>S, so that leaves EIE as the most probable type. Visually you also remind me of other EIEs.

[darya]

Lmao, you're completely different than I imagined you. Apologies for my wrong input You seem ExFx, most likely EIE (IEE as a second option) .

[Sol]

Do you think that is consistent with my questionnaire as well?

I don't read questionnaires in common.

[blank]

ESE

You're awesome btw lol, not awkward at allllll

[Sol]

and yet you can type me with high probability?

Sometimes, subjectively. By that video, as you've seen "mb", I have no high certainty.
Nonverbal method gives not less typing match than when people type by big questionnaires (max 30% for both, average is close), so it's not worse than when you'd were typed by questionnaire only. While analysis of big questionnaire needs too much efforts to keep fun. What you've said on video was used in some degree too, so the situation is better than I'd used nonverbal method only.

If you think additional questionnaire analisis gives much higher accuracy, then try to find prove such gives much higher match at least. I have no this data, buddy. Also I have much less trust to what people say, then to what I feel of types related from nonverbal info.

[Sol]

I doubted Ni valuing however as I do not feel the flow of time.

this needs strong Ni, in ego better. not valuing Ni
or trance state for mind (meditation, alcohol, etc) - this may change a little presence of functions in mind

Is this more consistent with Ni/Se valuing or Si/Ne valuing?

if you like to think about time it's more for Ni valuing, then Ne valuing

You got a stat for that 30%? Would be curious to see it. Thanks.

As prelude. There were in 1999 year experiment where people typed during IRL interview. They were not gurus, but enthusiast, and have gotten average match ~17% (in original article % of match was calculated wrongly, but it could be recalculated by raw data in the article). As for gurus wich lead schools and teach Socionics, - I have no data about their high match in such experiments. Some picture of the situation with gurus shows what match they have in typing famouses - far from 100% generally.

I made a couple of match experiments by casual videos with a random forum people on one Russian forum. Other ones did similar by photos and questionnaire. All have gotten average match <20%. If there were more experienced typers probably max match was up to 50%, not close to 80-100% anyway to say about high accuracy.

[Myst]

I come across VERY differently in text than in person lol. The difference is astonishing even to me, no idea why this is. I'm always surprised at how animated and expressive I am on camera. I feel like a robot lol but do not look like one at all!

This is far from the first IxTx typing, btw, because for some reason I have a Ti vibe in text. I don't really have Ti problems though, at least not the way other ExE seem to...
So I understand where that typing comes from!!

So when someone else gives you that typing, you understand it, yet when it comes from me you do not?

Your biases are disgusting.

I'm still giving my vote for alpha NT, if not LII then ILE with Fe HA makes sense fine.

...And then the circle is fully run once more. That is, you are again back to your original typing at ENTP/ENTp. Enjoy this Ne crap tho' if you want. I'm not going to get involved with your games again. I only looked at this thread because you did a mention on my name - which I see has disappeared since then for some reason.

[Muddy]

I'm not really against the ESE suggestions, both of the Fe base types look very probable. I suppose this is matter of Ni vs Si. ESE's with their creative Si often like to take care of others and make them feel comfortable by ways such as making good food or making the environment cozy. EIE also likes to help people but does so in more of a grand scheme kind of way, such as pushing forward positive social reform. ESE prefers to see their efforts with own eyes even if it means doing less in the long run, while EIE prefers to make the biggest overall impact possible even if they don't always get to see the results for themselves.

[Persephone]

OMG 15 seconds and I got fed up. Fe dom.

[darya]

Thanks!! Lol, glad you think I am a passionate communicator as well.

EIE has Se HA though - do you see enough Se for that?



Thanks!!! No worries, that's why I made the video.


To both of you I'd like to ask...

I was leaning towards ESE myself, so looks like I was close. I doubted Ni valuing however as I do not feel the flow of time. I feel outside the flow of time, and see even the past as something with potential to manipulate, like space. I see time as analogous to space. Is this more consistent with Ni/Se valuing or Si/Ne valuing?

Thanks again for your input and to you as well Sol!

Yeah, I didn't get any Ni (or Fe for that matter) from your questionnaire, the only thing I could imagine was some sort of Se-devaluing NT (you sounded very much robotic, accentuating how you don't feel any emotions or show any). I agree with @Myst, that Fe-base is quite ridiculous coming solely from the questionnaire. So I was very surprised at your presentation in the video. Tbh, ESE is not something I would type you even from the video, I think you're intuitive. ILE is imo more probable than ESE. Take my opinion with a graint of salt, because I'm not sure. Let's say I'd type you ENxx for now

[Sol]

lol omg my Fe is too real

offer you:
Compare descriptions of 4 S-F types - wich type fits you more.
Check 4 N-T in my examples (bloggers in the signature), - wich types give you more trust, and wich more feel of extraneous personality. Additionally you may check actors list, but it needs cleaning already.

[Myst]

I hesitate to make another request of you, after all your help - but, based on the video (that I posted in this thread), which would you say is more likely?
I'm not saying video typing is totally reliable or what not, I just think that for cognitive E/I and also for Fe expressiveness, it can be useful.
This is a more normal amount of expressiveness for me than the previous video. I was also less caffeinated.

Looked at that video. Fe HA is quite OK with me based on that. It could be Fe in other positions too, on its own it doesn't decide, but taken together with everything else, Fe HA fits it alright.

I'm not back to ENTP/ILE, actually. Are you? I'm still not really sure.

As for the "Ne crap", I've thought about this a lot and I think the jumping around is due to my Ti, actually, which finds it difficult to make decisions, and when it does make a decision, it finds it very easy to change its decision and its reasoning for any given decision. Also, I'm more comfortable with multiple options on the table than "cornered" into one single option (even if it's the right one! It's still stifling).

Taking into account everything I've seen so far (here and the other forum), which is quite some data.. ILE seems to make the most sense, yes. I will post a bit more on this soon.

Regardless, there are no apologies sufficient for the way I've behaved towards you. So I'm not even going to try. I understand and respect that you want no part of this discussion and I wouldn't ask that of you. (You're welcome to respond again if you want, but I'm not going to ask that of you.)

Thanks again and....I guess I'll see you around the (other) forum.

Apology accepted.

[Myst]

OK so here's why ILE. Possibly ILE-Ne over ILE-Ti. You display stereotypically Alpha quadra values and you have strong N, weak S functions, overall almost stereotypically NT over SF if staying with Alpha quadra. Overvalued Fe HA can account for doubt over the possibility of being one of the Fe base types. It happens often that someone overfocuses on the HA function like that, mistaking it for their base function. EIE could only work if there's such a thing as an EIE with pretty strong Alpha values. Otherwise, high Ne and some degree of Fe use superficially could look like EIE for a short time. I did consider that originally, yeah. But, you don't seem to be into Fe in the way Fe egos are. Ability for expressiveness on its own doesn't mean Fe ego, the idea on Fe as an information element is not as simple as that. Fe egos often aren't even that expressive, especially not over-the-top, when they feel it's better to be more nuanced than that in a situation, with their strong and conscious focus on how they will dynamically affect other people's emotional states by their expressions, words and actions.

[Sol]

I still don't really feel (m)any emotions to be honest, but am/was shocked at how much I express

In video interview you need to be natural, in typical state when in comfort conditions. In other case you make noise wich may impede correct typing.

[Myst]

It is a lot of data indeed and I appreciate you going through all of it with me... You really didn't have to accept my apology (or the previous apologies, haha) after the way I behaved towards you so...yeah... I really appreciate it. Thank you.

Np.

Agreed again - from what we've discussed, I don't think my Fe is cognitively like that of Fe egos - it's just the expressiveness that might be superficially similar.

Yeah. I noticed I'm kinda overexpressive, lol, it's kinda out of control, doesn't really match my words/content. Most of the Fe egos I've known are MUCH more nuanced in their expressions, even if they're excited or w/e, you get a lot more level and refined expressions, not my completely over-the-top and almost disturbing expressions I have in my video ;D

Yep that's what I was talking about.

As for subtype, since I seem more NFish than STish and have an relatively decent/high reliance on Fe, I'd probably be an Ne subtype anyway. Right? How would I tell? Obviously I'm now working off the assumption that I'm ILE at least lol. I don't think a "strong" Ti would automatically mean Ti subtype right.

Not everyone necessarily has a subtype, some people are balanced between the two "extremes" - I was going by the video there when I said possibly Ne subtype but in writing you have also come off more as Ti subtype at times.

[Sol]

Not everyone necessarily has a subtype

there are no subtypes in Jung's typology and normal Socionics

[Myst]

there are no subtypes in Jung's typology and normal Socionics

In Jung's typology there isn't even such a thing as creative function leading to 16 types instead of just 8

[Eliza Thomason]

Well, this is awkward. I think I'm ESE, but others here think I'm "intuitive" and EIE. Yet I think Beta STs are really animalistically gross and need to be blocked up in cages like the animals they are. I'd gladly put a bullet through the head of any SLE/LSI on one of their pathetic testosterone-poisoned rages. Alpha NTs OTOH Ha, exact same here. I have a dual who is actually a gross, vile person who advocates for literal slavery, vs. an activator who I share values with nearly 100% and is basically awesome. Real tough choice there ha ha ha.

My son is SLE and my brother is LSI. They are both really awesome decent people.(okay I am a little bit biased). I am not privvy to their romantic ways! Well, one is my son, and he is 19. I can imagine that being his style though. But romance ways and how you are in every day life are different. Ever since my son was little kids loved him. At a friend's party someone's little brother or sister would take to him and follow him around the whole party. He was always gentle and easy with his cousins who lived nearby, two boys 5 & 7 years younger and they love him. Also my (new) husband's granddaughter who is 5 fell instantly IN LOVE with him, and he is so good with her when they are here together, while she is glued to his side and looking up at him adoringly. My LSI brother is married to his EIE Dual and they have an ideal marraige. They have 4 boys and my brother really is an ideal husband and father who serves his family constantly. By their interactions, they way they tease each other, I can imagine them behaving like Beta Duals.

It might be good to look at your romantic style here (again, if you already have). Because knowing your romantic style will help you decide between ESE and EIE. Agressor/Victim style seems a bit "much" for Caregiver/Childlike. But its not too much for them. Maybe you are an ESE-Caregiver because the Alpha NT's appeal to you particularly.

[Eliza Thomason]

Good for your brother/son. I was talking about my own perceptions of LSI and SLE. I don't know the people you're talking about. My own perception of them is that they are violent, immature people, even when they're 50+ years old, and not at all fit to be parents. I'd be afraid of them to be honest. Beta ST has domestic abuser written all over it. Alpha NTs won't hurt a fly

That Alpha-love makes me think you are Alpha. Maybe you are the ESE like you thought. My ex was/is ESE. He was also a Narcissist, and it was a prolonged sad situation. But I have two friends who are ESE and they are the bee's knees. They are both great Moms, totally devoted to their families and they are true, true friends to all their friends (and they have many). There is not an abusive bone in their bodies.

I agree, a young abusive person can STAY that way their whole life - and in fact that's the norm. I once took care of a paralyzed neighbor who was a multi-millionaire. I was only in high school, and shy. He was blind and paralyzed from the neck down. 80 maybe? He had a 90 year old live in caregiver who he was so mean to. He once wanted me to watch how many teabags she put in her tea because he thought she was being wasteful and using two. Everyone who visited him came out looking downtrodden. Then he started to be mean to me, and I refused to go back. It is amazing that in his extremely helpless condition he was STILL able to make everyone miserable around him.

From your link: I can tell you right now this shit won't fly with me. This description is horrifying. If they really behave like this, they should be locked up in zoos. If they don't behave like this, then this description is really offensive. I would be offended at this if I were a Beta ST. Really offensive way to describe a person.

You must be on the Caregiver/Childlike side of Erotic Attitudes because I have had this same reaction to movies with exaggerated Aggressor/Victim love scenes, and I see that amazingly other people DON'T have this reaction to those scenes. Its just a different style.

[Eliza Thomason]

...
Yeah, that's pretty surprising me too. Aggressor/Victim sounds morally objectionable. I don't accept things as just "different styles" if they are morally objectionable. I think attacking and forcing yourself on your partner is objectionable.

I am seeing ESE as plausible possibility for you in these brief communications BTW! Forcing yourself on your partner - its not actual forcing, its consensual arousal. Like imagine a romance cartoon, dramatic, "Take me!" Excitement. Surrender. Like hot, steamy. Like this:e10eaaa0b674023eea38442d475ff0b8.jpg [@TheJackal : there is your SEE woman/ILI man]

vs.:bea66d04bdafb40f465d1559b56e2528.jpg Which is more sensual, exploring.

...I don't relate to the Caregiver one at all, but ok, sure. I think it's offensive that the Ne egos are called Childlike or even Infantile! Infantile? How do you feel about that? You're an adult (I'm guessing) and have apparently raised children yourself, and you're being called Infantile by this theory.

Its hard to get used to the names. Love is a complex thing sort of (yet simple). Yes, I hated the word "Childlike", too, at first, but actually that is how I flirt and tease with my SLI husband. It sounds funny all written out, but its just natural IRL. There are other articles here on romance styles but I can't look them up at the moment. I remember reading in one of those articles that Beta's like to really SQUEEZE when they hug. LOL. Beta's here confirmed that. Cute. But I prefer the subtleness of a gentle fully-there hug, and a caress...

[Olimpia]

Yeah, that's pretty surprising me too. Aggressor/Victim sounds morally objectionable. I don't accept things as just "different styles" if they are morally objectionable. I think attacking and forcing yourself on your partner is objectionable.

I don't relate to the Caregiver one at all, but ok, sure. I think it's offensive that the Ne egos are called Childlike or even Infantile! Infantile? How do you feel about that? You're an adult (I'm guessing) and have apparently raised children yourself, and you're being called Infantile by this theory.

I actually get the impression you might be a Delta NF or LII at this point.
You like Alpha NTs because they share and valuing and are Logical types.
You dislike Beta STs because one of them is your Conflictor, and in general you find rather obnoxious. (Most likely PoLR.)

Also, you are expressing in your statements regarding how certain actions are "morally objectionable". Ignoring is rarely so concerned with such things. When I ask my ESE mother what she thinks about something (morally), or what she likes in particular, she tends to become quiet all of a sudden and either not answer me at all, or be vague about it.

And, I have known mostly Childlikes (primarily EII) finding the romance style theory unappealing, especially being called "Childlike".

[Olimpia]

Well that's good that it's natural for you. I can never figure out how to approach people in a way that is natural. I spend most of my time alone as a result. I'm afraid of inadvertently offending people. My brother calls me a professional irritant because I irritate people without realizing they are irritated. I don't want to offend people so I just stay at home. So it is not natural to me. I don't know. I was in a relationship once but it was only for about 2 years so we were never in a sexual/sensual contact. I know 2 years is a long time for other people but for me it takes about 6 months to even hug the person. That's another problem I have, I can't hug people honestly, lol, I have some psychological problems, my parents hugged me so warmly growing up, I think my mother is EIE or maybe IEI, actually my dad too, I don't know, they were both strong on Fe, they hugged like Fe is supposed to hug, with warmth and expression, and I hug like a robot, or so I have been told, "My blood is cold as ice or so I have been told", I can't be a caregiver, I am not fit to care for a plant or a pet rock, I think even my cat finds me offensive, I have to be ESE I think as no other type really fits but, I cannot be a caregiver for anyone or anything, sometimes I am glad I was born without functioning reproductive organs (sorry tmi) because it means I won't accidentally have children and then treat them uncaringly, I can adopt children, I might do that some day but at least I would be do it deliberately, no one adopts by accident, I think it would be wonderful, to take in a child who doesn't have a home.

Okay, this sounds a lot like LII, weak/dual-seeking in particular.
(I am also seeing hints towards some kind of E6 inclinations, note: being afraid of ... etc. You might be 5w6 or 6w5.)

(I suppose your statements were likely just Role.)

All in all, it seems to me like you have been mistyped as your Dual.

Would you like the idea of dating an ESE?

[Olimpia]

Highly doubtful. LII? There are no LIIs with 1D Ti DS. Plus I am a social activist which they say is Fe. I currently type as 6w7 btw but 6w5 is possible, I go back and forth about twice a week, haha.



No, definitely not. That sounds like it would be a disaster! Maaaaaaybe an SEI - they make good friends, at least. So do ESEs, but I've found it feels kinda incestuous! LOL

I think EII is even more doubtful as I find LSEs, er, .. not someone I'd want to be around. Te irritates me.

But I would totally date an EII, even though they are not my dual. They are so cute.

Actually, most dedicated social activists I have known of were Fi ego.
If you are not LII, then I'd say you are most likely EII, to be honest.

Just something to think about...
Your previous statements sounded all very Se PoLR, as I have said before.

What about Te irritates you?

[Olimpia]

Te is not Fe, that's why it irrritates me.

Lol, I don't think I've met a single Fi ego in all my activism. The Fi egos I know only care about themselves.

That's not true, haha. Not all Fi egos only care about themselves.
SEEs can be very generous people, for instance.

Just like not all Fi egos are selfish, just so are not all Fe egos truly selfless.

May I ask what exactly you do, activism-wise?

And if you had to pinpoint one thing that is a weakness of yours which you wish you could improve, what would it be?

[Eliza Thomason]

Legal activism, trying to get oppressive laws overturned, like we had this one law that prevented people from adopting their siblings and it was changed (these are extreme cases where the parents are horribly abusive and an older adult sibling can adopt their younger minor sibling)

@SisOfNight is being very helpful here. I admire what you do. I have a LII friend whom I could picture doing this. Working to change laws. To combat injustices. She is very intelligent, and it takes brains and know-how to know a system well enough to go about trying to change it. She does such a thing, taking aims at the system, in proper form, to combat injustice, as well as to raise awareness of issues, in another realm. She dedicates her time, her life, her intelligence, and her considerable resources to her efforts.

People around LII's generally consider them to be quite intelligent.

[Suz]

Beta ST has domestic abuser written all over it. Alpha NTs won't hurt a fly

Yeah... this obviously is said with a bit of hyperbole, but in the context of dating, I feel similarly.

[Suz]

Yes, it was hyperbolic, I hope it is not offensive to the many harmless Beta ST out there. I agree though. Alpha NTs are so....unimposing and unintimidating and...aww

I it too... so much! That gives me a lot of emotional comfort. It's ok that they are unathletic weaklings, i really dont care about that in the least

[FoxOnStilts]

Yes, it was hyperbolic, I hope it is not offensive to the many harmless Beta ST out there. I agree though. Alpha NTs are so....unimposing and unintimidating and...aww

HEY. I can HURT PEOPLE. And be VERY intimidating. You better watch your back, because when you turn around, it'll be me.

And it'll be scary.