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Thread: Do super-ego types have identical social missions but opposing methods of achieving them?

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    Default Do super-ego types have identical social missions but opposing methods of achieving them?

    One thing I find interesting about super-ego relations is how both types are trying to achieve the same goal, but go about doing it in completely opposite ways. I'll make a list so you can see what I mean.

    Both EIE and LSE live their lives with a sense of altruism towards society. EIE does it by inspiring grand change vs LSE taking responsibility for all the little things that need to be done.

    Both LII and ESI fight a battle against against corruption and injustice. LII does it by the search and spread of knowledge, truth, wisdom vs ESI enforcing existing ethical principles.

    Both ILE and SEE seek to live life to the fullest. ILE does it by constantly searching for things that may give him pleasure vs SEE working towards a position of power and success.

    Both LSI and EII desire order and stability in their surroundings. LSI does it by creating and imposing a strict set of rules for others to follow vs EII appealing to other's conscious and sense of right and wrong.

    Both ESE and LIE fill their lives with activities that give themselves a sense of worth. ESE does it creating and organizing events for other people vs LIE engaging in activities that advance their own position.

    Both IEI and SLI want to fill life with a sense of romanticism. IEI does it through the development of their mental world vs SLI harmonizing with their physical surroundings.

    Both SLE and IEE seek to overcome obstacles that inhibit themselves and others. SLE does it by honing in on their own strengths and forcing themselves through vs IEE creating a social circle that will do it for them.

    SEI and ILI... idk I'm all out someone else please do this one for me.
    Last edited by Muddy; 12-12-2015 at 10:41 AM.

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    ILI and SEI both are easygoing, that's what I like about them, they also like to have a harmony in social settings, just fun. Just my opinion...

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    SEI and ILI might both be content to see and understand the world as it is more than other types. Other types might feel a strong need to impose on it in some way.

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    social mission is among valued functions, mostly strong ones
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    social mission is among valued functions, mostly strong ones
    To build on this, I reckon that the type of social mission is always the same. E.g. ESI and LII will both want to remove injustice and corruption.

    However, what they select as their battle is different and that depends on valued functions.

    E.g. An ESI I know is a more interested in "SJW-stuff": She has strong empathy and concern for certain groups of people and wants to help defend them. That's Fi. She's not afraid to stand up for what must be done and easily disregards or looks down on people who are not willing to take the line that she does*. That's Se and Ne-Polr. Strong Gamma values.

    I would consider myself more theoretical. I want to create a system which is fair for everyone and gives everyone equal opportunity. That's Ti with a bit of "you have the potential!" Ne. I also don't know what the answer is (maybe because my question is more complex), and I'm still interested in what new research and ideas are suggesting. That's Ne. Strong Alpha values. Also, perhaps my weakness is that, although I want to help people generally, there are many groups which I am not good at feeling empathy for, which I think is a sign of bad Fi.

    But both want to make the world a better place for people.

    *She isn't careless in this, though. She's thought through her position a lot and I would not call it extreme or illogical. It's like vegetarianism for social justice: It's logical and a bit out of the mainstream, but it's probably the most logical action based on pretty ordinary assumptions and moral sentiments.
    Warm Regards,



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    Goal? Yes. Manifestations are different, though. EII focus on Relationships, Fi, as a whole, independent of the self, and may or may not have typical relationships. LSI has normal, average relationships due to normative Fi. Almost all married and have kids in life. Most logical systems and uses of EII will be pretty dang standard. LSI on the other hand may or may not have logical systems that are just plain weird compared to most people, and their rules and regulations may seem ridiculous compared to normal people.

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    Man i'd say that's more akin to Quasi-identical relations.

    Super-Ego, in my experience, understand each other really well but tend to disagree pretty hardcore about it.
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    Take EII and LSI again... Both Fi+ and Ti+ are concerned with equalizing and normalizing. Fi+ with energy, and Ti+ with matter. Particle-wave duality. It's the same but with different focus.

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    Like I feel like they have respect for each other's approach to life but then they get to talk to them and know them better and they realise they have completely different views on what that actually means. They're like the same archetypal character in a story, but in a different movie where not only are their goals different, but the world they inhabit and how it operates is also different.
    Warm Regards,



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    That sounds about right, clown.
    Have you read Clocks of the Socion? Super-ego's always have the same position within the Quadra progression in it.

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    Muddytextures,

    I think super-ego relations are potentially second strongest next to duals because goals and thought patterns can be very similar, which would facilitate familiarity and trust. Each partner would have to fully understand and accept the aspects that the other partner would consider important, which will frequently be opposite. Even though one partner thinks a home should be structurally sound while the other thinks it needs to be well decorated, differences aren't necessarily bad; on the contrary, super-ego differences are complementary. Major concerns would be Ijs failing to notice or communicate, Ejs competing too much or trying to be boss, Ips sniping from behind walls or getting defensive, and Eps losing interest or not committing, but such potential weaknesses are not insurmountable - even duals have hurdles to overcome.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Yes, I think this is the case, and I think it goes to PoLR being the differing "method" we tend to disregard. I think in the case of ILI is goes something like, "if everyone operated in a sufficiently complex and integrated Ni/Te/Fi way, Fe (and what it aims at: utopia, basically) would take care of itself." Whereas, in the case of SEI its something like "if everyone payed sufficient attention to Si/Fe/Ti, Te would likewise take care of itself and be rendered superfluous." Each personality on the whole seems to represent a kind of approach to the world that is sufficient to get by and contribute something meaningful but also has a concomitant blind spot (PoLR). PoLR seems to be at the root of personality in some way because it entails a deep seated judgement about preference-towards-the-world that is embodied in the entire (expressed) personality. The super ego seems to be the kind of inner voice of balance that tries to moderate that inner prejudice so it doesn't become too one sided, but its ultimately a reflection of the same goal-but differing approach. In other words, the voice of the super ego is likewise informed by a common ideal endstate, hence the common ground whereby which it has meaning to the ego. If it were not the case that super ego and ego did not in some sense share identical goals then they would have no grounds to mediate one another.

    I'm probably biased, but it has always struck me how SEI and ILI both implicitly seem to be working towards an incredibly high minded ideal--SEI through more piecemeal means and ILI more explicitly and theoretically grand, but still. I feel like the shared conviction that more is at stake than some of these other "pair goals" is what unites us (some of those other ones, and I don't mean this in a bad way, but just as a sincere expression--seem kind of self centered, small minded, or otherwise trivial... and I think SEI would agree (although maybe not in the presence of the other)).

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    Well, a lot of Reinin dichotomies converge among Super-Egos.

    static/dynamic
    aristocratic/democratic
    positivist/negativist
    process/result
    asking/declaring

    IEIs often think that SLIs are really fuckin' cool, and SLIs probably think the same way about IEIs. From a distance, at least.
    Inductivism (observation-based process) doesn't work, and cannot work. Things repeated in the past do not necessarily repeat indefinitely in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ares View Post

    Both SLE and IEE seek to overcome obstacles that inhibit themselves and others. SLE does it by honing in on their own strengths and forcing themselves through vs IEE creating a social circle that will do it for them.
    OP: Great idea!

    I see it like this. IEE's social mission: recruitment of talent. IEEs maximize and point out what's already there to achieve 100% potential release while the SLE would push the person as they want it. IEEs /make/ the person want to develop themselves through showing them their strengths. SLE would be the substitute engine for the person, strength transfer is probably the word.
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    Also the super-ego are of the same stress type. And in model G for example IEI have a Ni+ Fe+ (introverted preciving + and extroverted judging +) and SLI Si+ Te+. Also there might be some similarities in how they VI.

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    I've wondered if Super-Ego relations are just very neutral "meh" relations because you don't care about what they are saying but at the same time it doesn't conflict with you and you don't really care to correct them. It's just like you can accept them as they are but there's not much you can learn from each other. But at the same time, they might be more receptive on the surface level than say Activator relations because with Activators you share same Inert/Contact functions which to me says that you're more likely to either agree or disagree with the other person but you won't take their ideas into consideration because you've already thought it through anyways... I imagine these relations just being two people sharing their own conclusions but not really caring to process the other person's thoughts... and since they share contact functions there wouldn't be anyone to take charge, like with two Contact Fe functions (LII-SEI activation) there's no one to really to take lead and manipulate the emotional exchange of the relationship so with an LII and SEI they would over time just completely stop using their Contact functions and will end up being emotionally dry by the time they get old, and they'll be stuck in their old ways without any desire to search for new possibilities. That's why the Inert function needs to be connected to the Contact function IMO. So is Super-Ego better than Activator for this reason?

    Basically what I see is that Super-Ego relations = "You can do it your way and it doesn't hurt me since I don't pay attention to such things, but you really should be focusing on this!"
    And Activator relations = "Wow I can't believe someone actually agrees with me on this! No I don't believe that... that's not right. *monologue about why they're right, then proceeds to curtail the conversation and order their favourite food in hopes of not having to go back to the conversation*" Just either you agree and stick with it or you just can't get beneath the other person's thinking and end up feeling ignored or alone, and the relationship lacks energy and movement so you end up being an unhappy depressed couple with little ability to have a conversation that benefits the both of you. Idk what I'm talking about this is just what I imagine with LIIs and SEis, that's how my grandma and grandpa turned out anyways...



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    Quote Originally Posted by Ares View Post
    One thing I find interesting about super-ego relations is how both types are trying to achieve the same goal, but go about doing it in completely opposite ways. I'll make a list so you can see what I mean.

    Both EIE and LSE live their lives with a sense of altruism towards society. EIE does it by inspiring grand change vs LSE taking responsibility for all the little things that need to be done.

    Both LII and ESI fight a battle against against corruption and injustice. LII does it by the search and spread of knowledge, truth, wisdom vs ESI enforcing existing ethical principles.

    Both ILE and SEE seek to live life to the fullest. ILE does it by constantly searching for things that may give him pleasure vs SEE working towards a position of power and success.

    Both LSI and EII desire order and stability in their surroundings. LSI does it by creating and imposing a strict set of rules for others to follow vs EII appealing to other's conscious and sense of right and wrong.

    Both ESE and LIE fill their lives with activities that give themselves a sense of worth. ESE does it creating and organizing events for other people vs LIE engaging in activities that advance their own position.

    Both IEI and SLI want to fill life with a sense of romanticism. IEI does it through the development of their mental world vs SLI harmonizing with their physical surroundings.

    Both SLE and IEE seek to overcome obstacles that inhibit themselves and others. SLE does it by honing in on their own strengths and forcing themselves through vs IEE creating a social circle that will do it for them.

    SEI and ILI... idk I'm all out someone else please do this one for me.
    Not bad, there is something to this. I think I would rephrase the SLI/IEI as just harmony though.

    Also - IEEs seek to improve themselves and their qualities (molding oneself) like SLE seeks to mold and control the outside world.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frogman View Post
    .......end up feeling ignored or alone, and the relationship lacks energy and movement so you end up being an unhappy depressed couple with little ability to have a conversation that benefits the both of you. Idk what I'm talking about this is just what I imagine with LIIs and SEis, that's how my grandma and grandpa turned out anyways...
    Many times I have had various types say to me: "You really should be focusing on this!" However, it required concrete action on my part to benefit from the advice. I find that Ijs are the worst at listening to advice so need lots of practice - but it's doable. Feeling alone, unhappy and depressed are functions of personal choices and or medical conditions; intertype relations are insignificant when compared with the baggage (the black hole) that accumulates over the years. Baggage isolates not type differences.
    a.k.a. I/O
    Last edited by Rebelondeck; 02-07-2017 at 04:52 PM.

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    Both ILE and SEE seek to live life to the fullest. ILE does it by constantly searching for things that may give him pleasure vs SEE working towards a position of power and success.
    Just to compare my sister and me. No, she is not power hungry person in terms of getting to the top. She is pretty pissed off at people's way of doing things ie not really honing on socially fair ways. She want's things here and now. I want to be also OK here and now. We both try to achieve it in our own ways. She works with older people to satisfy their daily needs. Maybe she just wants to place for retirement. I actually might have something similar in mind. For me it's actually pretty satisfying to make people interested in stuff they find too dull and make it roll forwards.
    extrospection > introspection

    Head type as in being truly head type and probably 7>5. Too divergent, scattered and expressive for typical 5 and that is the preferred way although long term focus usually helps.

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