ISFp vs INFp

[VladNk]

Hi,

I've been wondering if you guys could tell me what are the key differences between the two types. I tried reading some of the descriptions (mostly the ones on Sociotype), but besides narrowing my Quadra to either Alpha or Beta (definitely not Delta like I assumed *cough cough* EII cough*) I'm still not certain. Both IEI and SEI seem to describe some aspects of myself (also EIE, and to an even lesser extent IEE) but I'm still not 100% sure....

I'm kinda leaning towards SEI actually (though I've always assumed I'm intuitive just because I feel 'detached' from everything, but that's a bull**** reason, I think)

Quadra wise, I think I relate more to Alphas, but I really don't see myself as Si-valuing (Don't like the idea of "fun" activities/ideas unless they go somewhere). But also, I've never considered myself seeking control within a hierarchical structure or liked the idea of engaging in 'competitive' activities... still, I doubt I've ever been in a group of Betas before...

What I'd really like to know is how does the Si manifest itself in SEI as a leading function, and, likewise, how does Ni manifest itself in IEI?

Also, If it's not too much trouble, I'd also like to know how one's leading function acts as the others Role function? (Ni in SEI and Si in IEI)

If anyone can clear this up for me, it would be a big help I think (though knowing me, I'll probably come back again, asking to be retyped )

Thanks!

[Jeremy8419]

4D functions are actually the last one you should focus on, since their actual nature is beyond modern Socionics. Due to the fact that 4D are a full two dimensions higher than the norm of society, it is the least clearly understood. Your Role function will be a mask you tend to wear in front of Society at large. It is the one that you will say "most people think I am 'this', but I know I am more 'that' when I really just 'be me.'"
All 2D functions maintain a strict adherence to the norms of society. Whereas Role is conscious and on the social circuit, Mobilizing is very individualistic in it's own use, despite it's acknowledgement of societal norms.

oLR will be what others say you do "less good" than normal people, and don't seem to care about such. Role will be what everyone generally thinks you're average with in public. Creative will be that which is like Role, but that you situationally/occassionally transcend past the average norm of society to "shine." The 4D functions should only be considered after such, and will mostly be like Creative, but that you know, somehow, you transcend even past 3D with, and that most people will never even realize exists.

A common fallacy in The western communities is of typing someone as their Role function.

[VladNk]

Thanks Jeremy! Definitely did give me a lot to think about. Guess I'll really have to focus more on my weaker functions if I am going to find my real type (and you've didn't over-complicate the whole dimensionality thing, thank God )

Though, one thing: You've mentioned that the Mobilizing function is very individualistic in its own use. What exactly did you mean? How is it individualistic if it's still only capable of adhering to social norms?

Sorry, I'm really new to Socionics so forgive my ignorance It's really interesting though, I'll give it that

(I do wish there was more content on it...)

[Jeremy8419]

Ah. Sorry. I misspoke.

The ROLE function recognizes and processes societal norms, and is in the Mental (social) Superblock. As a 2D function, it never really generates any new information that could be of value to society. As a 2D function, it's usage is either "correct" or "incorrect" in society, and one typically cannot break it's bounds. For instance, I am often called logical, and it is often said that I am bound by Ti in society/general public. This is not evidence of a Leading function. It is evidence of a Role function. Similarly, others say, I cannot be Fi base, because I do not always act ethically or in regards to Fi; however, I often do stick to the ethical norms of society when a part of society, but I am not BOUND by such. Because others stating such essentially are saying there is only one "correct" way to deal with Fi, they are most likely 2D Fi.

The Mobilizing function recognizes and processes societal norms, and is in the Vital (individual) Superblock. As a 2D function, it never really generates any new information that could be of value to the self. As a 2D function, it's usage is either "correct" or "incorrect" for the individual, and one typically cannot break it's bounds. Whereas Mental is based on Society, Vital is based on the individual. It is that which you accrue over your life and is very differently manifested from individual to individual. That is... Your Mobilizing is your own, personal, "bound by 'correctness'" version of the element. For example, my Mobilizing of Si is such that all things related to Si either "work for me" or "don't work for me." Different cultures foods? Do they taste like the food I grew up with? No? Then I'm not going to eat it. Different types of clothes? Are they like the same clothes I've been wearing basically my entire life? No? Hate them and won't wear them.

Overall, the Super-Id is of such a nature that they filter out "a good individual match" from "a good TIM match." Someone can be a dual, but if the individualistic traits of your super-id don't match up with the dual's ego fast enough, you won't find them attractive. Over time, the intertype relationship CAN perfectly synch to minimize such to negligence, but it requires time. If an identical, activity, or mirror (or any type really) happens to have had a very similar life, they may attract you into a relationship more quickly than different duals; however, since the TIM's aren't perfectly in-synch, over time, they may lose out to non-relationship duals who are closing the gap of information much faster.

[Sol]

video
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1096450

[VladNk]

Well this... will take some time to sink in . Not that it's too difficult to understand, just that I didn't expect that much information all at once. Hell, I'm not even sure I fully understand what every element does in the first place

Oh well, I'm sure I'll wrap my head around the whole thing eventually ...

*sigh*

Anyway, thanks Jeremy. Your posts are really insightful.

[VladNk]

video
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1096450

Yeah, I actually already have posted a video here (two parts actually) though I'm reluctant to post it on this thread since, well, in retrospect, I kind of dislike it. Too much pretentious rambling, almost feels rehearsed/fake (though maybe I was just nervous and didn't know what to talk about...) Plus it's long...

If you want, the video's on this thread: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...s-in-advance-) (It's at the bottom)

But again, I would take it with a grain of salt.... I might upload a better video later I think. One where I'm a little less, umm, theatrical?

[Jeremy8419]

Well this... will take some time to sink in . Not that it's too difficult to understand, just that I didn't expect that much information all at once. Hell, I'm not even sure I fully understand what every element does in the first place

Oh well, I'm sure I'll wrap my head around the whole thing eventually ...

*sigh*

Anyway, thanks Jeremy. Your posts are really insightful.

Well, let's take your posts in this thread for example... If I was a coworker and you knew I had experience in Socionics, and you approached me about it, would the first post have been basically what you would have said and the way you would have said it? The subsequent ones as well?

[Beautiful sky]

IEI is the romantic who expresses love through poetry or music. She will take an idealized view of reality as she is a romantic and an N type. She's also a Lyracist who finds expression of such feelings through the intellectual and written medium. On forums you may observe people like our very own IEI Aylen who post poetry.

SEI are Mediators. They try to resolve conflict and through their tool Peacemaking they will change their opinion to match that of everyone involved. They will also remain drawn back in conflict as to not escalate the issues at hand. In trying to reconcile adversaries they may try self identification like saying "I see what you're saying though...I'm just saying X ."

I believe that SEI are far more able to take care of their sensations and satisfy them than IEI who look for a strong and protective partner. SEI can tough things out themselves

[VladNk]

Well, let's take your posts in this thread for example... If I was a coworker and you knew I had experience in Socionics, and you approached me about it, would the first post have been basically what you would have said and the way you would have said it? The subsequent ones as well?

Probably not... In a sense, I'm a little more calculated when I write (considering it's not in real time). I feel like I try not to make a fool out of myself when I write my posts, and, in a sense, use the smileys in an almost self-deprecatory way, as though saying: "Well, I'm really not sure whether I'm being correct in what I'm saying, so I'll put a bunch of dumb smileys, hoping you won't take my posts too seriously, and won't judge my intellectual capacities based on them"

...

In reality, my questions would be more vague and scattered and my responses would be even shorter "Aha, yeah, I get it. Okay..." *nods head mechanically*

Also, in the past I would nod my head even if I felt I didn't fully understand what the other person was saying. I do it less now, but it still happens

Wow, that was still long and stupid...

Hope I made sense

[Jeremy8419]

Well, let's consider that your entry into the thread, your original post, was you being "activated" into this specific social setting...

You enter and begin with a lot of possibilities and possibilities (Ne), and then proceed into how this all logically fits into things (Ti). After a few of these posts... Upon having such, you say, "okay, that's it for me, no more" and so place a boundary (Se), and turn such into an affirmation of a good relationship (not in the romantic sense) with myself (Fi).

So, taking from the School of System Socionics, you have this completed Vital Superblock for start-to-finish of the initial conversation (which easily would have been the "end" of this social setting) up until my last post...

Super-id
Unusual features, ideas and opportunities in a broad sense and outstanding personalities attract him much. Sometimes he has difficulties in situations with rich potential.

He would like to act justly, reasonably, logically in concrete situations, but in the same time he needs assessment of those skills. Unconsciously activated by the need to build a logical justification that helps in realizing a significant potential.

Id
In everyday life he has its own level of claims, wealth and influence in every situation. Flexible and without hesitation he applies his natural ability to establish good relations, to negotiate. Unconsciously use this ability to strengthen its position, advance their interests.

This is as opposed to IEI, who would most likely enter into the discussion with logic to make themselves appear "better" to others. E.g., would enter with no practical information, spin some logical thing to say, and essentially give out the "yeah, I'm sooo good" vibe. This is due to Se (Force, influence, how they "appear" to others) being valued in them, which is quite different than the Suggestive Ne of SEI.

Super-Id
Attracts information on the power side of life, and especially the specific methods to protect their living space, their interests. Feeling of lack of skills and information on how to protect and display the influence.

It claims to be a proper assessment of its ability to analyze, the ability to think collectively. Needs assessment of this skill.

Unconsciously activated when necessary to use analytical, logical abilities, especially if it leads to a strengthening of its influence.

So, as there was no declaration of Force (Se) in your OP, it would be highly unlikely that you are IEI. In a similar situation (from experience), IEI seems more like they are declaring that they have found their type and that they are awesome for doing such.

As another example, we can take a look at my own:

Super-Id
Attracts any information about the practical points of activity, properties and parameters of the objects, the optimal organization of business in general, trends in technology development. Own practical activities organized only on the basis of the acquired individual experience.

I would like to believe that it has the taste, able to organize the space around them, to create a comfortable environment. Needs assessment of this skill. Unconsciously activated when needed to optimize any process through the development of facilities in operation.

So, as we can see in our exchange compared to this quote, I enter (activated into) this social situation (thread) to provide practical information to make your journey work more smoothly.

Should enough time continue, eventually we would wind up in our Egos.

No worries. I spend a lot of time reading through such things (so my Suggestive has greater range of application), and Socionics information availability is a total mess. :/

[VladNk]

IEI is the romantic who expresses love through poetry or music. She will take an idealized view of reality as she is a romantic and an N type. She's also a Lyracist who finds expression of such feelings through the intellectual and written medium. On forums you may observe people like our very own IEI Aylen who post poetry.

I do enjoy writing. I doubt I'm good at it and I do tend to procrastinate. But I don't feel like writing stories/poetry indicates a certain type. Just like two people could be of the same Socionics type but a different Ennea-type...

SEI are Mediators. They try to resolve conflict and through their tool Peacemaking they will change their opinion to match that of everyone involved. They will also remain drawn back in conflict as to not escalate the issues at hand. In trying to reconcile adversaries they may try self identification like saying "I see what you're saying though...I'm just saying X ."

Again, (and correct me if I'm wrong) this is just too broad a stereotype. I mean, I draw back when conflict arises between two people (I dislike conflict a lot), but I usually don't like interfering since I believe the argument will resolve on its own (besides, who am I to get in the way?)

Also, I consider myself to be quite individualistic so I don't change my opinions often (especially just to accommodate others)

I believe that SEI are far more able to take care of their sensations and satisfy them than IEI who look for a strong and protective partner. SEI can tough things out themselves

I'd like to believe I can take care of myself. I hate the feeling. I have a very, very, very large threshold for tolerating other people's d*ckishness. But I'll hold my own if I have to.

Anyway, thanks Maritsa. I appreciate your input.

[yeves]

different reining traits:
ISFp is strategic, declaring, democratic, evolutionary, judicious.
INFp is tactical, asking, aristocratic, involutionary, decisive.
This is too much to write about, so look though these and compare them yourself
http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...omies#Overview

different intertype relationships:
ISFps have dual-seeking Ne and are attracted to Ne Ego types (LII, IEE, ILE, EII). They supervise EIEs, get supervised by LSEs, benefit LSIs and are beneficiaries of EIIs.
INFps have dual-seeking Se which pulls them to Se Ego types (SEE, SLE, ESI, LSI). They supervise ESEs, get supervised by LIEs, benefit LIIs and are beneficiaries of ESIs.

different styles of thinking:
ISFps are Dialectical-Algorithmic while INFps are Vortical-Synergetic.
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...thmic-thinking
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ical-Cognition

[Sol]

Too much pretentious rambling, almost feels rehearsed/fake

Only video give information close to normal typing. If you did not hoped to get Oscar, the videos are not bad.

I might upload a better video later I think. One where I'm a little less, umm, theatrical?

You may, but it's doubtful to add significant for me.

[VladNk]

You know, the description of the ISFp on School of Socionics (especially in the Super-Ego and Super-Id section) sound eerily like me. Maybe I did try convincing myself that my Role (Ni) was my lead like you said (kinda hurts actually )

And with regards to Ne, yeah, I am very attracted to weird/unusual people, while at the same time, have a hard time assessing my own abilities and coming up with "ideas" for the future.

Freaky...

I'm not going to say I don't doubt my type anymore (seems kinda suspicious that you were able to figure me out in such a short time ). But I definitely feel something is there. I'll try learning more about this, see what I can dig up...

Thanks again, Jeremy. But this isn't a definitive thank you, by any means...

(Also, I'm convinced you're possessed by a demon or something ...... but that's a different story)

[Beautiful sky]

I do enjoy writing. I doubt I'm good at it and I do tend to procrastinate. But I don't feel like writing stories/poetry indicates a certain type. Just like two people could be of the same Socionics type but a different Ennea-type...



Again, (and correct me if I'm wrong) this is just too broad a stereotype. I mean, I draw back when conflict arises between two people (I dislike conflict a lot), but I usually don't like interfering since I believe the argument will resolve on its own (besides, who am I to get in the way?)

Also, I consider myself to be quite individualistic so I don't change my opinions often (especially just to accommodate others)



I'd like to believe I can take care of myself. I hate the feeling. I have a very, very, very large threshold for tolerating other people's d*ckishness. But I'll hold my own if I have to.

Anyway, thanks Maritsa. I appreciate your input.

Any type can write poetry but the idealized romantic aspects and outlook are a typical mindset.of this type. SEE write poetry too but theirs describe events and scenes not make romantic overtures of their feelings.

[yeves]

(Also, I'm convinced you're possessed by a demon or something ...... but that's a different story)

[Jeremy8419]

Well, you said "super-ego" so this is probably pointless to link, but just in case lol... http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tem-Socionics)

A demon? LOL! Oh yes, I am Daemon Jeremiah from the Planet Mind-rape-yo-buns-o-saurus! Mwahahaha

The Suggestive is called such for a reason. For instance, people sometimes display that they need my super-id services. Five bajillion years later, I look around and think, wtf? Why am I doing this cr*p? Lol. When I got on Socionics forums, I was like, wtf? This all works terrible! This isn't practical! This doesn't work! Ahhhh!!!! A year or so of reading and thinking ravenously, I'm finely somewhat close to being able to help people with it on a practical level which eventually leads toooooo..... FIIIIIII!!!! YAY! *sunshine farts and rainbows*

[VladNk]

Only video give information close to normal typing. If you did not hoped to get Oscar, the videos are not bad.

I'll settle for a Razzie, thank you...

You may, but it's doubtful to add significant for me.

Whatever you say. I'm not too enthusiastic about the idea myself

[yeves]

A year or so of reading and thinking ravenously, I'm finely somewhat close to being able to help people with it on a practical level which eventually leads toooooo..... FIIIIIII!!!! YAY! *sunshine farts and rainbows*

you're so much like an Fe-ESE in this post.. an ESE possessed by a demon shitting rainbows--a worrying thought

[VladNk]

Hmm, so we went from finding my type to talking about rainbow-shitting demons...

...I hate to say it, but that somehow makes sense to me



(Goddammit I need sleep...)

[yeves]

haha this typing exercise went down well --in that case, have a good rest!

[VladNk]

Umm... Not entirely well, per say.... I still don't relate at all to Si and the whole "Need to create physical and emotional comfort for myself and others" bit. But I guess that's my super-ego Ni f****ing with me

[Jeremy8419]

Fi powerssssssssss...... Assymetrical Relations/Benefactor powerrrrrrssssssss...... ACTIVAAAAAATEEE!!!!

Form of.....

A canoe!

Wait. What?

[VladNk]

Are... are you dying?

Jeremy?

Please don't die....

[Jeremy8419]

Umm... Not entirely well, per say.... I still don't relate at all to Si and the whole "Need to create physical and emotional comfort for myself and others" bit. But I guess that's my super-ego Ni f****ing with me

Well, it's in the Leading, so one will generally not display it in the general public, as doing so involves putting aside the protective layer of the self (Role). Family and close friends may know of it, though.

There is an article floating around somewhere on Developmental Age of TIM. It states that people don't begin to realize their Egos until somewhere in the age range of 21-28. Age range 28-something is when people begin the developmental process of making the Ego and Super-Ego work together in-synch to allow them to reach their full potential. After that, it goes onto the global level or something.

[Jeremy8419]

Are... are you dying?

Jeremy?

Please don't die....

Nope lol. Off work and just got home, though. Time to get liquored up and pet kitties while watching Disney movies.

[VladNk]

[Warning: The skeptic in me rears its ugly head once more! Proceed long, irritating rant with caution]

You know, Jeremy, The more I think about it (don't kill me please ) the more I'm skeptical about your SEI conclusion. I'm not 100% certain, but looking at the intertype relationships, it just feels off...

Like for instance, you said you're an EII. Now I believe my boss also happens to be an EII (i.e. extreme dislike of conflict, a very, stiff serious but "dream-like" demeanor , a very moralistic stance on everything and concerned with unlocking her/others potential). But frankly? While I won't say we get along all that well (no offense), I hardly see her as my supervisor. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I, as a supervisee should, on the one hand despise her (because she's pushing my PoLR), yet on the other hand I should sorta look up to her (Because her creative is my lead). But I just don't see it. I'm usually more dismissive of what she has to say, rather than trying to accommodate her. I mean, sure, she's my boss, and I'd rather follow her orders rather than have her fire me. But again, there's never that desire to go back to her and prove my worth or even hatred towards her because she's pressing on my weak spots. (more like she's having a temper tantrum really )

Also, a friend of mine, I'm pretty certain is an SLI, and we hardly get along (I know, I know, keep reading) . We often joke that we're complete opposites because we can never really see where one is coming from (the joking part usually happens only at the beginning, and descends to head-against-wall-pounding annoyance towards the end). Now I know this isn't the best comparison, since Kindred relationships aren't all that great to begin with. But I'm pretty certain there's a more Super-Ego/Supervisor/Conflict thing going on...

A final example is an ESI (or so I think, he seems like a Fi-ego to me) who's a co-worker of mine . It's really weird, but I have a hard time refusing his requests. He's a very nice guy (if not a bit too reserved). And the strange part is, I always have this desire to help him out because, despite his very meek nature, I feel like he knows what he wants or what he's talking about (though he never really outright displays it). And he's always approaching me with this sort of attitude of "I think you should do this because it'll help both of us in the end." and so I find it difficult to refuse him, yet never really that annoyed with him (yet...)

PLUS HE'S TOO FRIGGIN' NICE TO REFUSE HIM!!!

(Paradoxically, it seems like he's more confident in his personal views of what is right/wrong (that lends to the air of confidence). But he always seems anxious about anticipated events "man, I'm so worried this won't work out for me..." and that's when I come in, all sympathetic and tell him everything will work out in the end... but that just seems like an anxiety problem on his part)


...I'm still having difficult time seeing how Si is anything but a weak(strong?)/unvalued function for me. Besides maybe resting to recharge, I see little point in wasting my time on simply "being in the moment" and even grow very irritated when people (family members mostly) emphasize the need for comfort, embracing the "tiny", mundane pleasures of life, or keeping everything "tidy" and in its place. At least I can sometimes understand the need for Te (getting something done effectively is necessary sometimes), but I can't even begin to explain how Si could be of any benefit to someone

Maybe my role-Ni really does cloud my perception that much.... or maybe I'm still not sure what Si truly is... I dunno... you said we're not able to fully comprehend our 4D functions so I won't make assumptions..

Sorry, if this is annoying. Guess I won't be satisfied until I researched enough to find my type on my own Til then, you will suffer at the hands of my uncertainty!

On a side note, I definitely did learn a lot from this thread... And I definitely need to embrace uncertainty more in my life... this is getting stupid...

[Jeremy8419]

Doh! Well, let's look at the previous stuff. The SEI stuff for typing is creepy accurate and it suits you. The role function had been doing it's job, like it should.

Oddly enough, two SEI friends I have in real life independently developed the habit of saying "ahhhhhhh! Get out of my miiiiiiiind!" but ees too late... I'm already inside... Me and my nine Jeremy compadres.... River dancing! Proudly brought to you by Daemon Jeremiah Dance Company. Serving all your mind-humpity needs since 1984. All rights and similarities are a Trademark maintained by Daemon Jeremiah Inc.

So what you're saying is.... *rubs chin whilst placing corn cob pipe in mouth* .... You've applied Socionics TIM's to yourself... But haven't done so yet for others in your life, and are instead focused on which particular set of elements they happen to display the most.... *blows bubbles from pipe*

Wrong! *corn cob pipe bonk on your head*

To accurately assess the situation *developes nerdy lisp* we must first triangulate the neuroprocessing of the information paradigm into the quasi-modal perplexion that rests in the prenatal cortex of the individual multiplied by the time of linguistic macadamia nuts.... Yup yup.

Which means... You've found your type, but it's currently meaningless and worthless, because you haven't yet applied your new understanding capabilities of Socionics to others. The intertype relationships are all wonked out, because you don't necessarily know what the people's TIM's are, just that which you most readily see about them. It could be their super-ego, their super-id, their id, their ego, their role + creative. Who knows?! TIS A MYSTERY!!! Mwahahahaha

Anyways, running through it some for some information.

I am ILE supervisor and SEI benefactor, not SEI supervisor. Me and my dual, plus you and your dual, equals how the four of us best transfer information from Delta to Alpha and vice versa. PoLR is also misused here, as it is not "point of always ouchies." Generally, it's ignored, and it is only when it reaches dangerously low levels that we start to hurt (cuz we need all our elements candies). It's like if you got jelly beans and hated licorice flavor, and loved green flavor. You want more green flavor, so you find some weird guy that likes licorice, and you trade away the nasty ones for more of the green ones. You and weird guy then are good jelly bean buddies. But, what's this?! They stopped making licorice flavor! Huzzah! And the weird guy is now forever friendless... And you don't get as much green ones.... So, your Leading function actually gets MORE by giving away the PoLR. Can't give it all away or make it cease to exist, though, because it's for everyone's benefit if you keep at least a little.

If the EII always comes in saying, "we should blah blah blah for morality's sake," then wouldn't that actually be his super-id? And the way he seems in general, wouldn't that be his super-ego? When you meet someone, and start to get to know them, there is always the inevitable point where the curtains part, and you see the real person, and think "why didn't I see this before?" Such is the nature of when the Role eventually falls.

Is the SLI joking Socionics' Ne'ish? Because if it his role.... And you are SEI... Could be SEE.....

That's not ESI. ESI has Se (Force, Power, Attack, etc.) as Creative, and even when in Role is more likely to use Se than to use PoLR Ne. That's more like EII or another Delta.

Not Si Leading? As I said before, Leading and Demonstrative are the LEAST well-studied. When placing any element as 4D, you're using definitions/classifications for the element that was written from around a 2D level. Why? Well Ti is what makes those classifications and definitions, and guess what anyone with most elements in Ego has? Weak or unconscious Ti. This is why the logic definitions are so precise, and the rest are increasingly "wtf is the difference?" Because the ones capable of making such don't actually have strong conscious Si, Fi, Ni, whatever to even be able to Ti it into something that is accurate. This is why you start with 1D and 2D for typing, and then cautiously type 3D, because, even though Si is "this" and "that," that's what Si is generally around the 2D level. I usually just 2D it as physical sensations, health and physical well-being, aesthetics. But, that's my dingy 2D version from 2D Ti classification abilities lol.

Look just at the post you made. Lots of talk about Dom. But, Dom is mbti. Leading in Socionics is NOT the thing you should look at for typing the self or others. If I had to give something of practical nature... *rubs chin*.... I think I would say that after for certainty placing the 1D-3D, the Leading is what is left that you Consciously do (translated into simplistic element terms if you want to discuss it with others) and demonstrative is what is left that you Unconsciously do. Hmmm.... Yeah, that could work.

No worries. Beneficiary Cookies are deliiiiiicioousssss..... Mmmm.... They're so moist.

/river dances

[VladNk]

*shakes head*

Are you sure you're not an Fe-ego type? Your sense of the theatrical/random kind of gives off that vibe. Did give me a laugh quite a few times.

Regardless, as much as you probably want me to admit defeat and accept my ISFp title (your enthusiasm is noted), I'm going to have to look into this whole thing more thoroughly. Hell, a large sum of what you wrote makes a lot of sense. However, you're channeling this overly-confidant vibe that I can't help but take with a grain of salt (Not that I doubt your knowledge or anything, yes?)

I mean, who knows? Maybe everything you're saying is 100% correct, but I refuse to believe that anyone can infer so much about a person with that little amount of personal information. There's a reason, I believe, why those ridiculously long 80Q questionnaires were made (and even then I'd be skeptical), and why it's so hard for people to actually find their types - it just takes more than a few arbitrary posts on a forum and more time, that's all...

*takes deep breath*

Sorry. I'm getting too worked up over this. You okay, Jeremy?

Please don't incinerate me...

[On a side note, you may have actually found my type, man. Otherwise, why would I be so defensive about it? Truth be told, I really just need to figure out my type on my own through careful self-reflection. Otherwise, I'll always keep doubting everything]

[Of course, knowing me, I'll get bored/angry with it and just switch back to the Enneagram (eventually finding THAT boring and useless and switching back to Socionics again]

[Sol]

Now I believe my boss also happens to be an EII

It's rare case, so it's doubtful.

a very moralistic stance on everything and concerned with unlocking her/others potential

I may be thought kind of moralistic too, but have Te type. Fe types may pose as moralistic ones too on public.

[Jeremy8419]

Of course. That's what I do LOL.

I "am" ESFj in our talks a lot, because that is what works (Te).

What if you said, "hey, I like people with blue eyes." And someone with blue eyes said, "omgerdz! I like people with green eyes!" And Bill say, "Vlad! YOU HAZ GREEN EYES O_O" You would be like

But, nope. You remember you don't have green eyes. Why? Because you look in a mirror all the time.

When you look at the personality, think about if it was a part of your body. You look down at your arms, your legs, your feet. Where is that sucker? Well, what if you ask an Identical? Well that would just be you looking through his world, at his own arms, legs, and feet, and it's still not there.

Enter. The Mirror.

*dramatic organ. No, wait. Fanciful bagpipes*

By viewing the reverse flow of information, we are looking at the reverse image, just like in a mirror. And so then you can see, "hey, so that's what my personality looks like!" True, it may not be exactly how you look, since it's reversed, but it's so close... You can almost taste it... mmmm smell that delicious SEI bacon, all hot and tingly, doesn't it just want to melt in your coroneted arteries? You know it does....

For myself, all I do is simply enter a minor-autopilot (Vital) of sensations and emotional warmth, an energetic and heartfelt barftasticness, thereby psychologically mimicking the ESE, by acting in my Ignoring+Mobilizing.

With the mirror comes the view of the self and the realization of the dual. As you want someone who instantaneously gives sensations and emotions, while you give novelty and logic, before y'all flip flop, and in doing so, you've finally got all the possibilities for great things that "make sense" from your dual.

You see, when we see ourselves in others, that is, we see our own reflection (be it in any type), we realize that that reflection, that similarity towards you, exists within the other, and in doing so... We fiiiiiiiinnnnndddd.... FIIIII!!!! YAY! Peace and love and daffodil buttsecks for all!!! *got that jelly time madness*

[VladNk]

Okay, are you sure you're not Fe-lead/creative?!?

And anyways, I'm pretty convinced I found my type. I mean, I really can't say why I haven't noticed it before but, dayum, that IEE description on Sociotype really hits the nail on the head. I'm almost, almost completely sure. Besides maybe "refusing to try something new on the menu" (I need to try everything once!) and "loving Mathematics" (Agh...) it really seems to fit - at least more than the other ones I found. (Plus there's that one Reinien dichotomy I managed to sort of understand: Static/Dynamic, and I think Static fits better)

Of course I'll keep doubting and learning more about the damn thing, but I definitely have a strong feeling I'm an IEE

So yeah, hate to be a mood killer, Jeremy, but I think IEE's where it's at

[Jeremy8419]

Sociotype.com is out of Washington (the state) U.S.A.

School of System Socionics is out of Kieve, Ukraine.

[VladNk]

Ahm, it's not that I'm questioning the validity of the site. Like I said before, I kinda doubt your ability to assess my personality based on barely two days of questionable information about me. You're very knowledgeable definitely, but it seems to fit better (and despite how absent-minded I can be in real life, I would still like to think I understand my preferences better.)

Again, I don't want you to take this the wrong way or anything. I'll definitely look into this, read more sources, learn the theory better (and maybe even realize I'm an SEI all along... that would be awkward .... hell, knowing myself, I'll change my opinion the next morning ffs)

but... til then I'll focus more on IEE

[VladNk]

or maybe I'm sei...

[Beautiful sky]

That may make sense since they both often pick.a type and keep doubting it. Problems with objective reality maybe

[Jeremy8419]

I was just pointing out that Sociotype.com isn't authentic lol. I actually had a thread for Resource Ranking over on another forum with it in the "not recommended" section lol.

The descriptions run into issues, because they often don't recognize the reality of the Role Function. If, lets say, your "EII" boss perfectly matches the EII descriptions, how do you know if you're not just seeing the mask he is wearing? Lol.

So, Sociotype.com... Well, you did say you like the weird and unusual

Maybe you don't want to be typed?

Ooooohhhhh!!!! I got it!!! What you want is the logic that makes you be unable to be typed due to the endless possibilities!!! This must be your super-id!!!

Doh. Wait. Nope. That's just silly 'ol SEI again

[VladNk]

*sigh* Okay, dude, you asked for it. The bold parts I relate to, and even more so the underlined ones. Though in general, 90 percent of it sounds like me.

Knock yourself out...


Extroverted Intuition (Ne, )

IEEs are predominantly motivated by their feelings of interest and boredom. They are attracted to novel ideas, unusual or peculiar goings-on in day-to day life, and new experiences. They may have a tendency to frequently engage themselves in novel life "projects," which can and often consist of novel concepts or fields of thought, new activities, and new lifestyles (this list is not all-inclusive). These types of projects often take the form of activities that are uncommon, concepts that are unknown or avocations that have not been done or tried before. Regardless of the nature of their interests, they often have a tendency to try to accumulate as much knowledge about the field as they can, and sometimes to improve the field by finding new ways of conceptually framing its basic principles (needs an example). Eventually, once there is nothing left to discover, or when they simply become bored, they will follow their curiosity and find a new topic of interest.Many IEEs require a certain degree of freedom from obligation in order to do their work and pursue their sometimes idiosyncratic interests, to the point where they may dramatically eschew conventional lifestyles. Some IEEs may have an irrational dread of working at a desk job or an office where they do not have the opportunity to pursue their whimsical hobbies. However, they often overestimate the torturous ordeal of having to perform specific chores that are not in line with their interests, and many IEEs that are acclimated to the reality of their obligations may not share this trepidation at having to fulfill them.IEEs are often spontaneous and sometimes quite distractible individuals whose natural energy level leads them to be working on something or doing something most of the time (in contrast to dominant types whose natural state is one of inertia and contemplation). However their work is often periodic in nature rather and tends to be on whatever projects they have involved themselves in at the moment, or whatever they are interested in doing at the moment, rather than a consistent schedule or routine. Many IEEs routinely have spur-of-the-moment ideas or curiosities, and may be inclined to look up random information or do arbitrary things that have occurred to them in lieu of whatever they might have been working on previously.IEEs, perhaps more than any other type, often have a tendency to seek out multiple perspectives and viewpoints on controversial matters. They are rarely tied down to any particular ideology and often have an implicit sense of faith that others are as intellectually open as they are. IEEs frequently have a innately optimistic disposition (despite how bleak they perceive the facts of any situation to be), and often earnestly believe in the value of a process of thorough, respectful, and politically correct discussion of controversial matters, and often that through a such due process of formal exposition of viewpoints, most reasonable people will come to a consensus as to the essential facts and truth of the debate.IEEs often tend to mentalize and verbalize matters of personal development, individual qualities, and significant personal experiences, and often develop connections best with others through disucssing matters of personal development that are close at heart to them. They may have a sort of innate tendency to spontaneously try to help others find an appropriate outlet for their particular talents, focusing on the potential positive aspects of their character; they may become engrossed over what people might become rather than what they are currently, and thus have a tendency to be able to see the positive side of everyone.

Introverted Ethics (Fi, )

At first glance, IEEs are usually friendly, propitious and accepting people. They often enjoy interacting and learning from all types of people and tend to enjoy cultivating a sincere atmosphere of passive good will, where others can feel comfortable and accepted for who they are.Like SEEs, IEEs are usually aware of and highly influenced by their emotional responses towards other people, things, or situations, but unlike SEEs they are less likely to be driven by their emotional reactions quite as viscerally; instead, their emotions are more likely to drive them to be a bit avoidant. They are often disturbed by conflict or aggression, and rather than espousing a confrontational or accusatory attitude, when possible they often prefer to politely smile and avoid being drawn into contentious arguments. They may be also somewhat fettered by and avoidant of situations replete with feelings of social awkwardness or situations in which their autonomy over their activities or choices is threatened.They may be inclined to keep track of a large network of social acquaintances with whom they feel a significant connection. Many IEEs share a common pattern in that for them mental stimulation is often interpersonal; they may extensively enjoy interacting with many different people and find a situation boring if there are no interesting people with whom to engage in conversation.Super-Ego Block

Extroverted Sensing (Se, )

IEEs have the capability and ability to be direct and firm with others in such activities as giving direct commands or making categorical statements about things perceived. However, the period of time when this occurs in an IEE is generally short-lived. As soon as the IEE starts to think about and starts to seriously consider the negative connotations of their directness or firmness (Se), for example, fear of instilling fear in another person in such a way that it would cause the person to be timid to or even scared to approach the IEE thereby distorting the personal bonds the IEE has with the person (Fi), the IEE will back away from making such statements. Therefore these direct and categorical statements are quite difficult for an IEE to make, even if the IEE understands the benefits of being direct or firm with others, such as the benefits of being firm or direct with children in parenthood.If an IEE is directly challenged or if an IEE observes a task a person demonstrates that is subsequently performed by the IEE or a group that the IEE is in (such as a teacher showing a classroom how to put together a widget, and the classroom then is instructed to put together their own widget), the IEE will consciously want to show their propensity and ability in performing the task as good as, if not better or faster than the original person or at least better than the group that the IEE is in. Anything less is considered a failure. IEEs will want to show proficiency in any task that is given to them, even if novice failure is understood. This, again is to demonstrate visibly to others that "I can do it" or "I can do this satisfactorily". Failing at accomplishing this and then subsequently being shown how to do the task is embarrassing for the IEE since they feel like they "should" have been able to accomplish the task if they were shown how to do the task at least once.IEEs will struggle with things that require sustained willpower and self-motivation. Because of fluctuating interest levels in self-pursuits, these tasks are difficult to sustain. These tasks include (but are not limited to) staying motivated to keep a workout regimen, sticking with a diet, sticking to a routine of doing a particular errand at the same time periodically, and other similar tasks. If the willpower is not there, it cannot be artificially manufactured to get the IEE to "push through". Concordantly, attempts by other people to get the IEE to "push through" is met with resistance. Though, it may be that the IEE will heed the call begrudgingly, this is not sustainable; the IEE will find a way out if this external push persists.

Introverted Logic (Ti, )

IEEs tend to have a difficult time describing a concept or system in a manner in which the essential facts are all that is needed to understand or describe it. The IEE's focus in describing a concept or system is in how they themselves came to understand and see what they are describing. If an IEE is asked to describe or explain something, their natural tendency is to describe the pieces of the concept, system or idea that are related to the subject as a foundation before explaining the actual concept itself. The IEE will often describe details or aspects of a system that are unnecessary to the understanding of the system's properties, but the IEE views these details as essential functions of a sequential system (as opposed to describing the concept or system and only the concept or system as an independent entity). In other words, even if a detail is deemed outside of the IEE as extraneous, the IEE that is describing it will see it as a vital and significant part of a chain in order to paint the full, "proper" picture of the system the IEE wants to describe. An IEE will tend to start off explanations with a tremendous amount of detail, energy and patience and will move towards a more general explanation as they tire out (if they tire out). If something in the IEE's chain is broken or questioned, the description (in the IEE's mind) halts or falls apart.When an IEE understands a logical concept or system, they are much better at describing anecdotal experiences with the concept or system that help to illustrate the concept or system. They would prefer to do this rather than describing the concept or system as described in the previous paragraph -- describe the essential facts of a concept or system.IEEs will demonstrate inconsistent behavioral patterns to the objective, outside world. But to the IEE, these behavioral patterns are as a result of a relativist view of how they make their decisions. For example, an IEE might be steadfastly against going to a particular branch of a bank to deposit a check that is easily accessible and only 2 miles away, but is perfectly content going to a different branch of the same bank that is 25 miles away and requires a roundabout route to get there (Happened more than once) To the outside world this would not make sense; why not just go to the branch that is easier to access that can handle the same function? But to the IEE, this does not matter. Something at the closer branch bothers the IEE enough to justify going to the further one. Maybe a particular person works there that the IEE wants to avoid, maybe one time the IEE did something embarrassing while at the closer branch and they are embarrassed to show their face again. Regardless of the reason, the IEE will justify circumstances to dictate the decisions they make in their behavioral patterns.The IEE is keenly aware of societal structures and affiliations that they belong to. These structures can be small entities such as "family" and large entities such as "political affiliation". As such, an IEE will naturally speculate about how these societal structures they belong to would interact if they mingled (Ne+Fi). With a propensity to be involved in a diverse number of interests, IEEs find themselves in a position where they would deem that members of certain societal structures would clash if they met. This will, at times, cause IEEs to hide their affiliations to parties that they feel might cause scrutiny or criticism of their affiliations. They would rather not be judged by others based on their affiliations. Also, if an IEE is cast into an "incorrect" category, this can cause deep wounds in the IEE especially if the IEE believes that the person doing the casting will not change their position about the IEE's affiliation, and as a result of that, believes it to be a negatively connoted statement of their own character.Super-Id Block

Introverted Sensing (Si, )

The IEE tends to be chronically unaware of his own bodily processes, including physiological sensations and a sense of balance and alignment with one's true desires. He sometimes has peculiar preferences or tastes, which he himself is unable to understand or fulfill. In terms of physical sensations, an IEE will almost always choose the familiar over the novel (The only part I totally don't agree with) , because they know that the familiar is reliable in the positive sensation it delivers. An IEE will typically have a single item he orders at certain restaurants without fail (No); if he isn't in the mood for that item he doesn't eat there. He will stubbornly refuse to eat anything that he knows he does not like, refusing to try a "new recipe" of anything that he did not like before (Wait, a new recipe "of" anything? I thought "or" anything. yep that's me...) . The IEE would much rather sleep in his own bed than anywhere else as a matter of familiarity, but this preference never enters his mind when a friend invites him to stay the night, sometimes resulting in a lack of quality sleep that the IEE will forget about the next time around. IEEs almost never emphasizes his attractiveness or sexuality overtly and publicly, but dreams of being pleasing to the senses to at least a small circle of trusted friends and partners who are able to develop and enhance his sexuality and attractiveness in a trusting atmosphere. He often will obsess about his looks in front of the mirror, trying to get the right combination of preparedness and liberated comfort. It is embarrassing to come to an event overdressed, as the IEE would rather look like they simply came on a whim rather than over-prepared. They will usually undermine the time spent in preparation and will avoid speaking on the topic altogether. When getting sick, the IEE may stubbornly refuse or "conveniently forget" to take any sort of medicine. Their chosen method of dealing with sickness and physical discomfort is ignoring it until it can no longer be ignored. An IEE will frequently forget meals and sleep when excitedly working on a new project or in some sort of social gathering. Exhaustion, hunger, thirst, and full bladders will be ignored until the need is overwhelming and affects the IEE's concentration

.Extroverted Logic (Te, )

The IEE is keen on accumulating factual knowledge on subjects of personal interest and those that help him be more efficient and productive, but he's often unsure of his ability to find and select the correct information and is therefore attracted to people whom he sees as competent in that area and reassure him. He prizes efficiency, and berates himself secretly for his own inefficiency. He takes care to explain the justifications behind his actions. He loves accumulating and sharing trivia to make himself seem educated. IEEs believe firmly that knowledge should be shared freely. Asking an IEE to keep a secret is a burden on him. He can also be a little too trusting of information sources, because spreading falsehood is seen as a foreign and repulsive idea. IEEs love scientific and mathematic concepts (No, Math bad...), but practical application will soon bore them

.Id Block

Introverted Intuition (Ni, )

The IEE thoroughly understands discussions and arguments focused on following present trends into the future and their possible implications, as well as on exploring one specific imaginative vision of personal meaning, but he much prefers to explore many possibilities, starting from a present point in time and reality, rather than to concentrate on just a few specific visions or trends. He understands that the present moment may be changeable or not be as it seems, but refuses to think too much on the matter, choosing instead to keep a more practical view. To an IEE, the question "What if?" usually applies to something that the IEE can do to change his future, not some sort of alternate reality, such as "What if I bike instead of drive to work?" as opposed to "What if gravity didn't exist?"

Extroverted Ethics (Fe, )

The IEE appreciates situations where people are enjoying a positive emotional atmosphere as in having fun and joking together, and is quite adept at creating them himself, but does not see creating or promoting them a top priority, nor does he actively look for people who maintain or need such an atmosphere; too high a focus on that is seen by an IEE as overdone. He can be very empathetic and will frequently comfort his friends and acquaintances, mostly letting them vent to him, offering suggestions as to what to do about it. These are usually practical. The IEE may offer a more optimistic viewpoint , but will not press the matter if the optimism is not received well. He is usually genuinely concerned, but refuses to let the negative energy affect him. This may eventually become tiring if it persists as he will feel guilty for being happy in the face of those close to him being miserable. The IEE does not like conflict between people one bit; he would rather stay on everyone's good side and keep in good terms with both sides of a conflict, preferring not to be judged by his affiliation with one side or another. In such situations he says very little that would give away where he truly sides on an issue.



Everyone probably hates me now

[Jeremy8419]

What's that have to do with anything? Lol. That could be your Suggestive+Demonstrative (Ne-Fi). All you did was unconsciously adopt a view that placed you as Benefactor to ESFj I been playing. You've just mirrored you and I's actual relation. LOL