Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 51

Thread: Do "Childlike" types take advantage of "Caring" types?

  1. #1
    Airman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,556
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Do "Childlike" types take advantage of "Caring" types?

    Based on my last two strong connections to infantile women I think so.

  2. #2
    killer wolf lemontrees's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    emotionz
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    1,114
    Mentioned
    100 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    i took advantage of an infantile yesterday

    (J/K)

  3. #3
    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Canada
    TIM
    9w8
    Posts
    3,272
    Mentioned
    124 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    How?
    "If this to end in fire, then we should all burn together. Watch the flames climb higher into the night."

  4. #4
    SongOfSapphire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    513
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    How?
    Seconded.
    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

  5. #5
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    ILI ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,876
    Mentioned
    728 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Airman View Post
    Based on my last two strong connections to infantile women I think so.
    Be more selective, or not. There are people, of all types, who use and take advantage of others. Ideally shouldn't this kind of thing be pretty balanced if both people are healthy? I think romance styles need some revision.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  6. #6
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    ILI ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,876
    Mentioned
    728 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    i took advantage of an infantile yesterday

    (J/K)

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  7. #7
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    No. Caregivers can take advantage of other caregivers to care for people they love or themselves. Infantile get into a super rot and try to fender for themselves by whatever meager ways that they can get by. Also Vicims too can take advantage.

  8. #8
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    How?
    It's sort of like when aggressors rape their victims. Only gentler (with lube).
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  9. #9
    Airman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,556
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    How, by getting lots of attention.

  10. #10
    Airman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,556
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Infantiles and Victims also know that they can manipulate people emotionally ppl who like them a lot can be somehow manipulated

  11. #11
    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Canada
    TIM
    9w8
    Posts
    3,272
    Mentioned
    124 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    It's sort of like when aggressors rape their victims. Only gentler (with lube).
    I'm really trying to see what is meant by this?
    "If this to end in fire, then we should all burn together. Watch the flames climb higher into the night."

  12. #12
    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Canada
    TIM
    9w8
    Posts
    3,272
    Mentioned
    124 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Airman View Post
    Infantiles and Victims also know that they can manipulate people emotionally ppl who like them a lot can be somehow manipulated
    If it feels like manipulation and it doesn't feel good....make it known.
    "If this to end in fire, then we should all burn together. Watch the flames climb higher into the night."

  13. #13
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    ILI ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,876
    Mentioned
    728 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default


    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  14. #14
    SongOfSapphire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    513
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I asked my husband whether he feels like I take advantage of him, and he looked baffled and said maybe he takes advantage of me, at which point I probably looked baffled.
    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

  15. #15
    End's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    TIM
    ILI-Ni sp/sx
    Posts
    536
    Mentioned
    86 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Airman View Post
    Infantiles and Victims also know that they can manipulate people emotionally ppl who like them a lot can be somehow manipulated
    Manipulation isn't really intended. The infantile wants someone to show that they will take care of them so that they can make a show of earnest gratitude (least they disappoint their caregiver and show contempt or an unappreciative attitude towards the one offering their care, and the last thing a good infantile wants is for the caregiver to feel unappreciated and thus make them search for someone who will give them the appreciation they crave), and the victim wants the aggressor to have to put in a bit of effort (least they themselves bore the aggressor of course, for easy conquests do not delight aggressors as much as a seemingly hard-won victory, and the last thing we victims want is to bore our conqueror and thus cause their eye to wander towards "new" lands as it were).

    It's really just nature running its course on this front. The "manipulation" only looks like it is from the outside looking in if we assume the relationship is otherwise healthy and stable. Romance, in my eyes, is more linked to instinct stackings and attachment styles. Yet, in the end, the aggressors will hunt down their victims and the caregivers will search for a good infant. Each erotic style draws its complimentary style towards itself. Victims attract aggressors, infantiles attract caregivers. It's just how things happen, and smart people know how to roll with it. It's not really manipulation in many cases, it's just the dynamic the couple has developed. Outright malign manipulation is usually the result of one or both sides having an unhealthy and unstable attachment style.

  16. #16
    Airman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,556
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Yes I agree w you. If I were to think in terms of big conquests I'd be an aggressor then. I prefer a big conquest. It also puts some extra strain on my part. I don't think anyone finds an easy conquest as interesting as a small conquest.

  17. #17
    Haikus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,060
    Mentioned
    223 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't really buy ppl being strict orientations like babies and mommies- so I will take your question a bit deeper to mean 'Is it easy to take advantage of somebody that cares about people?'

    There is a heartwarming scene I like on Once Upon a Time that I often post to people, where Cora thinks Emma will be easypickins for manipulating because she's a heartfelt goody goody, but instead this is what happens:




    No, it's not a weakness to care- just always make sure you are also caring about yourself.

  18. #18
    SongOfSapphire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    513
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    I don't really buy ppl being strict orientations like babies and mommies- so I will take your question a bit deeper to mean 'Is it easy to take advantage of somebody that cares about people?'

    There is a heartwarming scene I like on Once Upon a Time that I often post to people, where Cora thinks Emma will be easypickins for manipulating because she's a heartfelt goody goody, but instead this is what happens:




    No, it's not a weakness to care- just always make sure you are also caring about yourself.
    Ah, w b&d's post in mind, I will put in that I can see how SLIs could be taken advantage of. LSEs too, possibly, but to a lesser degree imo bc they seem less soft to me. I have ascribed this to weak, valued Fi, though.

    I was in a relationship w a kind SLI (now married to someone else, and still a close friend) whom I saw other women take advantage of in relationships, and I could imagine my husband's even deeper kindness and loving nature being taken advantage of as well. I did not and do not do that, though, bc it would just seem...dirty and wrong. Not all SLIs are so sweet, ofc, but the ones who are could probably be taken advantage of (just like everyone can be, but possibly more easily if they believe they are loved).
    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

  19. #19
    Chains's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,290
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Infantiles need to learn and develop life skills so that they aren't dependent on someone else or risk taking advantage of them. Caregivers need to relinquish control and make others responsible for performing their own duties. Relationships and the duties required should be split as evenly as possible.

  20. #20
    rien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Canada
    TIM
    Delta NF
    Posts
    42
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Skeptikon That doesn't sound fun at all

    Wouldn't it be more psychologically comfortable if infantiles/caregivers just let their personalities play out in their relationships naturally? It wouldn't work very well in the long term if we weren't able to be recognized for our contributions and had to constantly do things we hate/are awful at. I'd imagine this give and take between caregivers and infantiles is what would draw them together in the first place!

  21. #21
    netflix and don't touch me Emmym's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Midwest
    TIM
    EII-Ne
    Posts
    286
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Taking advantage happens across the board, but I do think some Se-polr and Se-DS types are extremely inclined to it. You just have to learn to bail as soon as they show signs. Anyone who "needs someone to make them want to" do what's necessary in their lives is going to latch on and suck you dry. If they can't be bothered to even try taking care of themselves, they don't deserve for someone else to do it for them. They aren't OWED a perfect cozy life where they get to do all the things that matter to them, though quite a few of them believe this and will find any rhyme or reason to become someone else's dependent. Rather than going for types, go for people who are independent and you should be fine.
    someday the grapes will be wine
    and someday you will be mine


    EII-Ne 2w3 - 9w1 - 7w8 so/sx

  22. #22
    Owl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    TIM
    IEE-9Fi
    Posts
    780
    Mentioned
    84 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think I do take an advantage of caregivers, it does not happen consciously or by a force, but it does happen somewhere in the subtitles.
    INFP
    4w3-5w6-1w9
    Hyper introverted extrovert
    Melancholic

  23. #23
    Airman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,556
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fay View Post
    I think I do take an advantage of caregivers, it does not happen consciously or by a force, but it does happen somewhere in the subtitles.
    Of course. That may be the norm in some cultures.

  24. #24
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    IDK
    Posts
    6,470
    Mentioned
    169 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    didn't you say you have a diagnosis of NPD @Airman?

    I have read that people with NPD are quite easy to take advantage of because they see everyone else as existing to serve them, and they are so stuck in that mentality that it doesn't occur to them that someone else might be using them instead, until it's too late and they've been used.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  25. #25
    Fembot Olimpia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    IEI-1Ni
    Posts
    6,514
    Mentioned
    536 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    It's really just nature running its course on this front. The "manipulation" only looks like it is from the outside looking in if we assume the relationship is otherwise healthy and stable. Romance, in my eyes, is more linked to instinct stackings and attachment styles. Yet, in the end, the aggressors will hunt down their victims and the caregivers will search for a good infant. Each erotic style draws its complimentary style towards itself. Victims attract aggressors, infantiles attract caregivers. It's just how things happen, and smart people know how to roll with it. It's not really manipulation in many cases, it's just the dynamic the couple has developed. Outright malign manipulation is usually the result of one or both sides having an unhealthy and unstable attachment style.
    I mostly agree with what you said. I just wanted to add the fact I've been attracting Childlike types too, not just Aggressors.
    Whenever a Childlike type tried to "lure me in" with their Childlike tactics, I have usually responded negatively and confused, haha.

    I believe that we will attract the complementary (or identical, sometimes) Romance Style the more we are in our own element. Meaning, the more we are being ourselves.

    It is too easy sometimes to be mistaken for the wrong Romance Style when you are exhibiting your Role function too much in superficial encounters. I think those Childlike guys picked up on my (superficial) Si, thinking I would provide it to them once they have shown their childlike enthusiasm. Oh, how they were wrong, haha. The big reveal was always irritating for both.

    Regarding Infantiles "taking advantage" of their Caregivers: It might seem that way to the Infantile, because they are focusing on bringing forth their Ne in order to get Si back. However, this is a mutual exchange. The Caregiver will take care of the Childlike, in exchange of receiving childlike enthusiasm, idealism and the like. If both people are healthy, mutually and sincerely interested in the other, the exchange of Ne-Si will be symmetrical and not one-sided. Hence no one takes advantage of the other in total. Benefitting from someone's strengths to override one's weakness is not automatically "taking advantage" of them. If it goes both ways, it is a mutual and positively reinforcing exchange.

    P.S.: This feeling of someone taking advantage of the other would technically be the strongest in Benefit relations, because the information exchange is asymmetrical there, and the Beneficiary receives more of what they need than the Benefactor. In that manner, I could see how an ILE might feel they were "taking advantage" of an LSE's caregiving (Si), same for IEE with ESE. Having said that, the Beneficiary is actually rather unaware of them "taking advantage" of their Benefactor's Creative function. Additionally, the Benefactor is perceived to be in a "higher" position (by both) and less prone to being influenced by their Beneficiary's demands. So, there is not much ground for true conscious manipulation.
    Last edited by Olimpia; 11-20-2015 at 11:23 AM.

  26. #26
    I've been waiting for you Satan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Behind you
    TIM
    sle sp/sx 845
    Posts
    4,956
    Mentioned
    137 Post(s)
    Tagged
    15 Thread(s)

    Default

    i think caregivers like to be taken advantage of.

  27. #27
    Airman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,556
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    I mostly agree with what you said. I just wanted to add the fact I've been attracting Childlike types too, not just Aggressors.
    Whenever a Childlike type tried to "lure me in" with their Childlike tactics, I have usually responded negatively and confused, haha.

    I believe that we will attract the complementary (or identical, sometimes) Romance Style the more we are in our own element. Meaning, the more we are being ourselves.

    It is too easy sometimes to be mistaken for the wrong Romance Style when you are exhibiting your Role function too much in superficial encounters. I think those Childlike guys picked up on my (superficial) Si, thinking I would provide it to them once they have shown their childlike enthusiasm. Oh, how they were wrong, haha. The big reveal was always irritating for both.

    Regarding Infantiles "taking advantage" of their Caregivers: It might seem that way to the Infantile, because they are focusing on bringing forth their Ne in order to get Si back. However, this is a mutual exchange. The Caregiver will take care of the Childlike, in exchange of receiving childlike enthusiasm, idealism and the like. If both people are healthy, mutually and sincerely interested in the other, the exchange of Ne-Si will be symmetrical and not one-sided. Hence no one takes advantage of the other in total. Benefitting from someone's strengths to override one's weakness is not automatically "taking advantage" of them. If it goes both ways, it is a mutual and positively reinforcing exchange.

    P.S.: This feeling of someone taking advantage of the other would technically be the strongest in Benefit relations, because the information exchange is asymmetrical there, and the Beneficiary receives more of what they need than the Benefactor. In that manner, I could see how an ILE might feel they were "taking advantage" of an LSE's caregiving (Si), same for IEE with ESE. Having said that, the Beneficiary is actually rather unaware of them "taking advantage" of their Benefactor's Creative function. Additionally, the Benefactor is perceived to be in a "higher" position (by both) and less prone to being influenced by their Beneficiary's demands. So, there is not much ground for true conscious manipulation.

    This makes me remember that all human relations have a political side to them. On the benefit relation yes it corresponds to my exp with ILEs irl. The EII doesn't only demand Si back but Se and Te as well from an LSE.
    Basically putting this as an equation she's giving Fi and Ne and demanding 3 IEs so 3>2 she's receiving more than giving.

  28. #28
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    &*self
    Posts
    866
    Mentioned
    42 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    They would only truly take advantage of them if they were acting in a dishonorable way and taking advantage of a lack of critical judgement on the part of the caretaker. Sometimes people need help. Why not get people to help you?
    salmon

  29. #29
    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Canada
    TIM
    9w8
    Posts
    3,272
    Mentioned
    124 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Airman

    you get three IE's in return. They give you their demonstrative as well. At least they should if they want to be making a favourable impression.
    "If this to end in fire, then we should all burn together. Watch the flames climb higher into the night."

  30. #30
    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    EII-Ne Sp/So
    Posts
    14,931
    Mentioned
    243 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Based on my own limited observation, Infantile types may certainly seem to take advantage of more practically-inclined types, if only because what the Infantile offers in return seems less readily apparent. (The same is also probably true of Victim types, in general). The nature of the relationship will also affect exactly how the situation is perceived of course.
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

  31. #31
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    2,230
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Infantiles take advantage of non-caregivers. There is a blur between inantile/non-caregiver and Infantile/Caregiver duals. Such is the case with all romance styles.
    If the person seemed to be of the most benefit, they either aren't your dual, simply deeper into their style than yourself due to previous relationships, or aren't your corresponding romance style. That's from least likely to most likely.

  32. #32
    sorrows's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    TIM
    ESE- Fe 4w3
    Posts
    514
    Mentioned
    50 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    This is very interesting post, I tend to take advantage of caregivers. However, as an ESE I am a caregiver. I never related to the description of caregiver, yet completely related to the infantile description.
    In my romantic relationships, I really need a tremendous amount of support, Ti (or Te), advice, wisdom, household help, and tend to take advantage. I just offer a lot of cuddles and affection in return!
    I do find my dual, the LII to be a wonderful friend, but an LII would not be able to offer me the guidance I am seeking in a romantic relationship, and I would need to care for them, as I do in friendship.
    I cook for my LII friend, and take her to the doctor appointments.

  33. #33
    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Canada
    TIM
    9w8
    Posts
    3,272
    Mentioned
    124 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Good insights in this thread.
    "If this to end in fire, then we should all burn together. Watch the flames climb higher into the night."

  34. #34
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    6,609
    Mentioned
    156 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    Based on my own limited observation, Infantile types may certainly seem to take advantage of more practically-inclined types, if only because what the Infantile offers in return seems less readily apparent. (The same is also probably true of Victim types, in general). The nature of the relationship will also affect exactly how the situation is perceived of course.
    Agreed, it may seem that way, especially to types that don't value Si.

    Si types can become dependent on others for their interests and overall life plans, for example.

  35. #35
    Pookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    TIM
    IEI-Ni 6w5-9-2 So/Sx
    Posts
    2,125
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Learn to spot the quality in the root. That way you can lift her and pull her from the garden. Otherwise you get weeds.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

  36. #36
    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Canada
    TIM
    9w8
    Posts
    3,272
    Mentioned
    124 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Learn to spot the quality in the root. That way you can lift her and pull her from the garden. Otherwise you get weeds.
    I think I read this on a flower pot once.
    "If this to end in fire, then we should all burn together. Watch the flames climb higher into the night."

  37. #37
    Soupman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Grand Britain
    TIM
    Dyslexic 17
    Posts
    326
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sorrowsofyoungwerther View Post
    This is very interesting post, I tend to take advantage of caregivers. However, as an ESE I am a caregiver. I never related to the description of caregiver, yet completely related to the infantile description.
    In my romantic relationships, I really need a tremendous amount of support, Ti (or Te), advice, wisdom, household help, and tend to take advantage. I just offer a lot of cuddles and affection in return!
    I do find my dual, the LII to be a wonderful friend, but an LII would not be able to offer me the guidance I am seeking in a romantic relationship, and I would need to care for them, as I do in friendship.
    I cook for my LII friend, and take her to the doctor appointments.

    You are an infantile then given that you look for someone to provide stability whilst you bring all the fun to the table.

    This is very interesting insight, thanks for responding

  38. #38
    Soupman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Grand Britain
    TIM
    Dyslexic 17
    Posts
    326
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Manipulation isn't really intended. The infantile wants someone to show that they will take care of them so that they can make a show of earnest gratitude (least they disappoint their caregiver and show contempt or an unappreciative attitude towards the one offering their care, and the last thing a good infantile wants is for the caregiver to feel unappreciated and thus make them search for someone who will give them the appreciation they crave), and the victim wants the aggressor to have to put in a bit of effort (least they themselves bore the aggressor of course, for easy conquests do not delight aggressors as much as a seemingly hard-won victory, and the last thing we victims want is to bore our conqueror and thus cause their eye to wander towards "new" lands as it were).

    It's really just nature running its course on this front. The "manipulation" only looks like it is from the outside looking in if we assume the relationship is otherwise healthy and stable. Romance, in my eyes, is more linked to instinct stackings and attachment styles. Yet, in the end, the aggressors will hunt down their victims and the caregivers will search for a good infant. Each erotic style draws its complimentary style towards itself. Victims attract aggressors, infantiles attract caregivers. It's just how things happen, and smart people know how to roll with it. It's not really manipulation in many cases, it's just the dynamic the couple has developed. Outright malign manipulation is usually the result of one or both sides having an unhealthy and unstable attachment style.
    @Maritsa What do you think about this?

    Maritsa, I also read about attachment theory and realised my mom quintessentially gave me successful caregiving. However, another interesting note is that INFJs offer excellent caregiver support, the emotional and psychological growth often the ESTJ instinctively lacks and needs nurtured like a child (or being in the position of a willing subordinate).

    Quote Originally Posted by attachment theory
    The most important tenet of attachment theory is that an infant needs to develop a relationship with at least one primary caregiver for the child's successful social and emotional development, and in particular for learning how to effectively regulate their feelings. Fathers or any other individuals, are equally likely to become principal attachment figures if they provide most of the child care and related social interaction.[3] In the presence of a sensitive and responsive caregiver, the infant will use the caregiver as a "safe base" from which to explore. It should be recognized that "even sensitive caregivers get it right only about 50 percent of the time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_theory

  39. #39
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    eastern U.S.
    TIM
    ENFp, IEE
    Posts
    2,520
    Mentioned
    233 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Airman View Post
    Yes I agree w you. If I were to think in terms of big conquests I'd be an aggressor then. I prefer a big conquest. It also puts some extra strain on my part. I don't think anyone finds an easy conquest as interesting as a small conquest.
    This makes a lot of sense to me. "A man needs a few hurdles to jump" is a word of wisdom I heard a long time ago and there is always turht to this, IMO. In romance, yes, and speaking as a mom and a teacher, I see it in male children too - not talking about romance there but in activities and subtle conversation. ("Last one in's a rotten egg!" is a big boy motivator, i.e.). In general, girls like relating and boys like little challenges

    Some women seem to habitually overlook the hurdle thing and thereby continually sabotage what could have been something.

    But, then, maybe in many cases these were the wrong guys for them, anyway. One of the forum members (I forgot who/where - please let me know if you remember) recently commented that some types in romance seek to love and others seek to be loved. Those seeking to love might be more bold and more frustrated by "dating rules" that say they should hold back a bit.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  40. #40
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    eastern U.S.
    TIM
    ENFp, IEE
    Posts
    2,520
    Mentioned
    233 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eureka View Post
    Infantiles need to learn and develop life skills so that they aren't dependent on someone else or risk taking advantage of them. Caregivers need to relinquish control and make others responsible for performing their own duties. Relationships and the duties required should be split as evenly as possible.
    In other words, everybody needs to grow up!
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •