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Thread: Examples of dual couples

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    Between the Lines Pink's Avatar
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    I originally thought Martina was IEE and Simon SEI, but this video definitely confirms ILE for Martina, based on the way she responds to Simon's Fe. It's absolutely adorable. (:

    B e a u t i f u l S i l e n c e ・ 。☆・

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    Martina - ISFP
    Simon - some F, mb ISFP too

    my similar theme
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...nd-conflicters
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    @Maritsa, way to go girl. You look cute together.

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    Attachment 6579Attachment 6580

    typical look right here...? ----->

    Attachment 6581


    worth 8 minutes.


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    Thank you

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    Martina does seem SEI from the little I viewed.

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    Kevin McKidd - ESTP
    Sandra Oh - T type

    Maritsa's own type is not INFJ as she thinks, but ENFJ or less probably ENFP. Similarly her current dude is doubtful to be ESTJ as typed by her - what's good in her case. On that photo I suspect F type for him. If she'll give more data (video is better), then his type will be more clear.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Maritsa, I love this pic! You both look very happy and connected. You, of course I have no doubt are INFj. You not only appear so but more importantly to me, you have all the characteristics. And though I do not consider myself great at VI, I am not thinking ESTj at all for your sweetheart. On VI alone, my thought is ExFx.

    But also from bits you have said here, he never sounds to have the marks of LSEs I know. I don't see you describing that constant drive to work and accomplish, that juggling of overtime hours with seemingly insatiable appetite for more and more productive work, more involved projects, hobbies and occupations, which is the LSE stand-out thing I see in my LSE brother and also a longtime LSE (woman) friend. However, he looks kind and protective - I like that - and its good for you.

    If he were not your Dual, but some other compatible type, then, why not? I can think of many good, true long-lasting, happy, fulfilling marriages (my parents are one) that are non-Dual. Commitment, effort and of course love and attraction can make anything work - even Conflictors! Though that might be the hardest.

    Yet, even the difficult Conflictor relations can work. I know three longtime conflictor-couples (in each case, married, with children) who are making it work great, even though its been a rocky road at times. (Two are femaleESTj w/ maleINTp, one is female INFj w/ male ESTp) I think their long history of holding it together in hard times is making them want to stick with what they invested in. Certainly commitment to marriage vows, so no affairs*, makes a huge difference in these couples, too. They have built something with hard work and endurance, and they do have some good times to recall, too. And their children are blessed.

    * ALL six of the spouses in these three couples had families of origin where their parents were true to each other - longtime, happy marriages of rock-solid commitment. I think it helps in hard times to have grown up with that example. Because if one decides to seek happiness elsewhere in unhappy times, its a LOT harder later to heal the rift and stay together.

    _

    P.S. I am not seeing ESTp in his VI! (phew!)
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Maritsa, I love this pic! You both look very happy and connected. You, of course I have no doubt are INFj. You not only appear so but more importantly to me, you have all the characteristics. And though I do not consider myself great at VI, I am not thinking ESTj at all for your sweetheart. On VI alone, my thought is ExFx.

    But also from bits you have said here, he never sounds to have the marks of LSEs I know. I don't see you describing that constant drive to work and accomplish, that juggling of overtime hours with seemingly insatiable appetite for more and more productive work, more involved projects, hobbies and occupations, which is the LSE stand-out thing I see in my LSE brother and also a longtime LSE (woman) friend. However, he looks kind and protective - I like that - and its good for you.

    If he were not your Dual, but some other compatible type, then, why not? I can think of many good, true long-lasting, happy, fulfilling marriages (my parents are one) that are non-Dual. Commitment, effort and of course love and attraction can make anything work - even Conflictors! Though that might be the hardest.

    Yet, even the difficult Conflictor relations can work. I know three longtime conflictor-couples (in each case, married, with children) who are making it work great, even though its been a rocky road at times. (Two are femaleESTj w/ maleINTp, one is female INFj w/ male ESTp) I think their long history of holding it together in hard times is making them want to stick with what they invested in. Certainly commitment to marriage vows, so no affairs*, makes a huge difference in these couples, too. They have built something with hard work and endurance, and they do have some good times to recall, too. And their children are blessed.

    * ALL six of the spouses in these three couples had families of origin where their parents were true to each other - longtime, happy marriages of rock-solid commitment. I think it helps in hard times to have grown up with that example. Because if one decides to seek happiness elsewhere in unhappy times, its a LOT harder later to heal the rift and stay together.

    _

    P.S. I am not seeing ESTp in his VI! (phew!)
    He's LSE. I know his face is peculiar, like an F type. It confused me too at first encounter. but if you saw other pictures of him, he's stern and stands upright at 6'5" he's been into all sorts of dynamic sports since he was born which include flying airplanes, motorcycle driving, fixing and repairing about anything including plumbing and appliances; he can clean and detail a car like no yesterday as well as other things. His Ej temperament begs him to do things in a planned fashion and he often talks about the plan of events in the morning, early morning or in the evening when we're relaxing.

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    I found those two in the video annoying and somewhat silly. If that's typical alpha behavior, I'll have to cross alpha off the list for myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Maritsa, I love this pic! You both look very happy and connected. You, of course I have no doubt are INFj. You not only appear so but more importantly to me, you have all the characteristics. And though I do not consider myself great at VI, I am not thinking ESTj at all for your sweetheart. On VI alone, my thought is ExFx.

    But also from bits you have said here, he never sounds to have the marks of LSEs I know. I don't see you describing that constant drive to work and accomplish, that juggling of overtime hours with seemingly insatiable appetite for more and more productive work, more involved projects, hobbies and occupations, which is the LSE stand-out thing I see in my LSE brother and also a longtime LSE (woman) friend. However, he looks kind and protective - I like that - and its good for you.

    If he were not your Dual, but some other compatible type, then, why not? I can think of many good, true long-lasting, happy, fulfilling marriages (my parents are one) that are non-Dual. Commitment, effort and of course love and attraction can make anything work - even Conflictors! Though that might be the hardest.

    Yet, even the difficult Conflictor relations can work. I know three longtime conflictor-couples (in each case, married, with children) who are making it work great, even though its been a rocky road at times. (Two are femaleESTj w/ maleINTp, one is female INFj w/ male ESTp) I think their long history of holding it together in hard times is making them want to stick with what they invested in. Certainly commitment to marriage vows, so no affairs*, makes a huge difference in these couples, too. They have built something with hard work and endurance, and they do have some good times to recall, too. And their children are blessed.

    * ALL six of the spouses in these three couples had families of origin where their parents were true to each other - longtime, happy marriages of rock-solid commitment. I think it helps in hard times to have grown up with that example. Because if one decides to seek happiness elsewhere in unhappy times, its a LOT harder later to heal the rift and stay together.

    _

    P.S. I am not seeing ESTp in his VI! (phew!)
    Agreed, duality ain't everything. I think it's more related to instinct stackings and attachment styles. If those two are favorable then the actual type won't matter as much, though of course you're also going to want to hit the lotto and have everything match up. Which is, IMO, a very unlikely scenario. Hope for it yes, search for it yes, but please, do settle if you land a mostly favorable outcome. Fairy Tale romances are a lie, endlessly searching for one is a recipe for loneliness, and people shouldn't be alone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Fairy Tale romances are a lie, endlessly searching for one is a recipe for loneliness.
    I disagree. Hold up for one because it might then change your life. It just might not last forever, but then again, nothing is this world was meant to last that long.

    Fairy-tale romances are absolutely real. Is it not art that imitates life? Not the other way around?

    That truth has become lost in our modern media-saturated cultures. To much romance overload has created a generation of cynics. Being a realist, you must also take into account that romantic love can also be just as real as anything else.

    Just wait till the big R-word hits you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    I disagree. Hold up for one because it might then change your life. It just might not last forever, but then again, nothing is this world was meant to last that long.

    Fairy-tale romances are absolutely real. Is it not art that imitates life? Not the other way around?

    That truth has become lost in our modern media-saturated cultures. To much romance overload has created a generation of cynics. Being a realist, you must also take into account that romantic love can also be just as real as anything else.

    Just wait till the big R-word hits you.
    Yeah, well, people still win the lotto, but you're a fool if you base your life around hitting the jackpot. People's standards are too friggin' high, good, honest, real people are being abandonded by their SO's because "I'm not happy" (i.e. this other person excites my unhealthy attachment style more than the current stable SO does). Many times relationships aren't even pursued. They're "out of my league", or "I'm not good enough for them", and other such bullshit. And even if approached the other party won't even consider it. They see the approach as a measure of desperation and just reject it out of hand.

    It's all a bunch of bullshit, I just hope people realize this in time before our species goes extinct and/or filled with morons who don't know the first damned thing about real intimacy (which will also lead to extinction).

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Yeah, well, people still win the lotto, but you're a fool if you base your life around hitting the jackpot. People's standards are too friggin' high, good, honest, real people are being abandonded by their SO's because "I'm not happy" (i.e. this other person excites my unhealthy attachment style more than the current stable SO does). Many times relationships aren't even pursued. They're "out of my league", or "I'm not good enough for them", and other such bullshit. And even if approached the other party won't even consider it. They see the approach as a measure of desperation and just reject it out of hand.

    It's all a bunch of bullshit, I just hope people realize this in time before our species goes extinct and/or filled with morons who don't know the first damned thing about real intimacy (which will also lead to extinction).
    Might as well just go for it then. Consequences be damned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    Might as well just go for it then. Consequences be damned.
    Now you're getting the proper attitude .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    He's LSE. I know his face is peculiar, like an F type. It confused me too at first encounter. but if you saw other pictures of him, he's stern and stands upright at 6'5" he's been into all sorts of dynamic sports since he was born which include flying airplanes, motorcycle driving, fixing and repairing about anything including plumbing and appliances; he can clean and detail a car like no yesterday as well as other things. His Ej temperament begs him to do things in a planned fashion and he often talks about the plan of events in the morning, early morning or in the evening when we're relaxing.
    Okay, then - those things certainly do sound LSE!
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Maritsa that man you're with is quite obviously ESFJ OR ESE how can you not interpret it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Kevin McKidd - ESTP
    Sandra Oh - T type

    Maritsa's own type is not INFJ as she thinks, but ENFJ or less probably ENFP. Similarly her current dude is doubtful to be ESTJ as typed by her - what's good in her case. On that photo I suspect F type for him. If she'll give more data (video is better), then his type will be more clear.
    Maritsa is clearly ENFJ

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airman View Post
    Maritsa is clearly ENFJ
    No. One way to tell is she is clearly not Beta. Someone else explained it here better than I (was it @golden?), but I will give it a shot. Beta's are sort of "more interesting"* socially than Deltas. Their social presence is more desired, more universally appealing, IMO. They have knowledge of the pulse of the social situation around them, and do not say things that puzzle people, making some people wonder "what the heck? where did that come from?" This is Fe related probably. INFj are strong in Fi so their social responses are sometimes more personal, and people don't get where they are coming from, since they are not in their heads.

    Maritsa is in my Quadra and I do get what she says (I am never asking "what the heck?"). So, when she has been wrongly provoked (or supervised) here, she can lash back, or basically, give back just what she got (even if the insult was not recent - she remembers, and if there has been no repair of that at all, its as if it just happened). Probably because I am her Mirror and also a fellow NF, I always seem to see what she says/how she reacts in context, and understand the place its coming from - a personal response. Whereas others, at home socially with Fe (a good place for Fe to be!), just can't reconcile that which makes no sense to them, and they take to mislabelling her (not just her type, but her character and her motives, too) in all kinds of wrong ways...

    I think I am right on this.

    *["more interesting" = I am referring to the fact that we Deltas are sometimes referred to as boring, domesticated creatures as we are. And example of a Delta response is #2 here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...51#post1111351 ]


    Quote Originally Posted by Airman View Post
    Maritsa that man you're with is quite obviously ESFJ OR ESE how can you not interpret it?
    Actually, I do consider this a good possibility, too. I am working with basically the same info you are, too - the pic and the explanation. While the explanation -

    "dynamic sports since he was born which include flying airplanes, motorcycle driving, fixing and repairing about anything including plumbing and appliances; he can clean and detail a car like no yesterday as well as other things"

    - has strong parallels with the LSEs I know. But I realize that I am with you on this, Airman. Yes, because the above description ALSO fits with my ESE ex. Except my ex had a phobia of tight places - he would panic attack on a plane - so he would not be learning to pilot. Otherwise, maybe yes.

    But besides being on board with that lists of interests and activities, my ESE ex (also tall at 6'1"), also had large round blue eyes and a gentle yet extroverted smile. And also his form was similar - he also has a soft layer of fleshiness on a strong, solid, muscular body (which differs from the 3 LSEs I know well who are fit, lean, and a bit gangly, even). And in spite of good warm social smile, my ex also has permanent frown lines (even more pronounced), in part from the constant effort he was always determinedly exerting at life.

    When I think "LSE guy", I do think of "the guy in a suit with a jerky gait", which, when I see Maritsa's guy here, its hard to imagine him like that. It just doesn't fit.

    So, I am leaning to Maritsa's guy being ESE now. And its a good pairing with EII. A good Alpha /Delta pairing! The caregiver/child works, and it sure helps to fit nicely in that department! Illusionary/Mirage is one of the better relations in the Socion. Knowing the patterns of Mirage relations can help overcome the humps, which aren't serious at all. Better still, Mirage relations are equal, unlike what I was in, the bad end of the unequal Benefit relation.

    [ @Maritsa - I am tagging you!]
    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 11-09-2015 at 05:01 PM.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Gulenko's prescription for smooth sailing in Mirage relations!

    "These relationships can be classified as spontaneous. It is meaningless to wait for or demand some orderliness in behavior or to force your partner to act against his will. Relations allow for joint work of technical nature, but general entrepreneurial business activity in them is quite problematic.

    Do not search for logic in behavior of your mirage partner. It is better not to argue about who is right, but have a heart-to-heart discussion about life and its complexities. Relations are conducive to relaxation and dreaming. They benefit from humor, from optimistic mood. They are characterized by interaction within small social circles with elements of sophistication and refined aesthetics.

    Do not request hard commitments from each other. These relations are stable under mild conditions and gentle forms of behavior. Pay close attention to the mood of the other partner and adapt yourself accordingly. It will become evident who is the leader and who is following. Discuss strange, mysterious phenomena that inspire curiosity. When one partner picks up an activity, the other should try to join in and provide support without asking questions."

    From: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...rage-Relations
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    No. One way to tell is she is clearly not Beta. Someone else explained it here better than I (was it @golden?), but I will give it a shot. Beta's are sort of "more interesting"* socially than Deltas. T
    It wasn't me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    It wasn't me.
    Maybe it was, but I did such a poor job of interpreting it that you don't recognize it.

    You did say this:
    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    It seemed to me like a foregone conclusion that there'd be some typing disagreement between you two (Sol and Maritsa).

    Anyway, Maritsa, I will always agree that you are INFj. Some reasons why: You're quite caught up in your private, subjective Fi estimates of people and situations and you describe the world in terms of personal relationships. You emphasize recognizing and cultivating opportunities. I also think you look IJ. I've seen you on camera once or twice and you had a quiet, drawn-in energy and a fair amount of internal tension. You think in a linear way and you appear drawn to structure and not all that adaptive.

    Some things you don't do: You don't trade in metaphor, you don't display logical detachment, you don't appear to care about social atmosphere, you don't focus on aesthetics.
    Which is well said.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Maybe it was, but I did such a poor job of interpreting it that you don't recognize it.
    No worries. I was asked about in chat, as well, and it's possible I said something in a joking or offhand way. I mean, I'm Beta, so yes, I find Beta more interesting. "Delta is boring" is a stereotype I don't bother to take seriously, since on the one hand it's kind of a given, and on the other there are plenty of exceptions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    No worries. I was asked about in chat, as well, and it's possible I said something in a joking or offhand way. I mean, I'm Beta, so yes, I find Beta more interesting. "Delta is boring" is a stereotype I don't bother to take seriously, since on the one hand it's kind of a given, and on the other there are plenty of exceptions.
    But I am not insulted at all if someone thinks I am boring. l like boring. I appreciate the fine-tuned subtleties of things that others find boring.

    Think about the romance styles of Alpha and Delta and how these styles are truly comparatively "boring" to the Beta and Gamma styles. Yeah, you guys can shock us!

    So if half or more of the types naturally find me rather boring at times, that's good, because I want to be left alone some, to savor the simple things. I do want some socializing, but not LOTS of it. Yes, that some might find me not such interesting company is a good thing.

    I really enjoy watching my ENFj sis-in-law in a social situation. She truly does "light up"; she is in her element, and she is a gem. Her delight in all is infectious. She and my ISTj brother like to entertain, and they have a bunch of kids, and they invite other families with bunches of kids (and those with few or none - everybody is welcome) and with her ideas and my brothers cooperative and disciplined work, and the way they enjoy working together, they make great hosts, and put on great parties. Yes. Beta parties are nice!

    I love those gatherings they do so well, but my personal favorite gatherings to put on myself are having extended family over - well-planned and prepared so everyone is comfortable, or, just a few friends at a time, for good food and good conversation, a great time for really getting to know people better.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  26. #26
    silke's Avatar
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    LII-ESE - Chris Siegfried and Desiree Hartsock




    LII-ESE - Josh Beech and Shenae Grimes-Beech (their friend' is IEI-Ni).




    ILE-SEI - Vienna Girardi and Gregory Michael




    EIE-LSI - Carly Waddell and Kirk DeWindt




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    Chris Siegfried - LII, agree
    Josh Beech - ENTP
    Carly Waddell - ESFP, ISFP
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    The Ubiquitous Mr Lovegrove Subteigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    No. One way to tell is she is clearly not Beta. Someone else explained it here better than I (was it @golden?), but I will give it a shot. Beta's are sort of "more interesting"* socially than Deltas. Their social presence is more desired, more universally appealing, IMO. They have knowledge of the pulse of the social situation around them, and do not say things that puzzle people, making some people wonder "what the heck? where did that come from?" This is Fe related probably. INFj are strong in Fi so their social responses are sometimes more personal, and people don't get where they are coming from, since they are not in their heads.

    Maritsa is in my Quadra and I do get what she says (I am never asking "what the heck?"). So, when she has been wrongly provoked (or supervised) here, she can lash back, or basically, give back just what she got (even if the insult was not recent - she remembers, and if there has been no repair of that at all, its as if it just happened). Probably because I am her Mirror and also a fellow NF, I always seem to see what she says/how she reacts in context, and understand the place its coming from - a personal response. Whereas others, at home socially with Fe (a good place for Fe to be!), just can't reconcile that which makes no sense to them, and they take to mislabelling her (not just her type, but her character and her motives, too) in all kinds of wrong ways...

    I think I am right on this.
    You consider me ILI, so not a type that is especially at home with , so you are probably not referring to me here.

    I think traits you attribute to Maritsa could just as easily be typical of other types other than EIIs, including -Egos (although different types will perhaps have different focusses).

    Consider for example this type description:
    (it is a rough translation, from here: http://www.socionics.org/type/Defaul...type_gul3.html)
    Ethics - intuitive extrovert, ENFJ.

    STRENGTHS.

    Emotional, feels the mood of others. He knows how to express their feelings sublime: from the sublime to the subtle inflections of irony. It may inspire people with their emotions, to lead them. Worries about the danger that lurks in the development of the situation, is able to take the necessary steps to avoid it. The prudent and far-sighted, able to properly distribute events in time. She believes in the unlimited possibilities and abilities. Try to understand the motives of the people standing on the moral stance educator and mentor. Punctual, has developed a sense of responsibility. Typically, a wide range of humanitarian interests.

    PROBLEMS.

    He barely gives inner balance. Inclined to dramatize the event. Self-esteem, vulnerable, is set to the correct, polite attitude towards him, for a long time remember the resentment. He does not like to be interrupted in a hurry. Stung by their failure and frustration. It is categorical in his judgments and conclusions, is not inclined to compromise. By nature aristocratic, can tolerate extremes in clothing, so samovyrazhayas (extravagance or, on the contrary, the elements of negligence). He does not like to do many things at once. Distrustful of unverified information. Criticism of her appearance and habits in the home brings painful. It can prevent negligence in the design of business documents.

    FROM HIM can not demand and expect:

    - Constant optimism;
    - Quick return in specific cases;
    - Sober, objective, unemotional view of things;
    - The ability to reliably analyze the situation;
    - Democracy and ease of communication.
    RECOMMENDED occupation.

    The humanitarian sphere, where it is necessary to promote any idea, philosophy, religion. It may be a good sales agent, or insurance, where you have to emotionally engage the customer. It may work well in the arts, where to play, to express emotions (theater, pop music, oratory).
    I think naturally, that each type will have its comparators in various aspects. Such is human behaviour.
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Yeah, well, people still win the lotto, but you're a fool if you base your life around hitting the jackpot. People's standards are too friggin' high, good, honest, real people are being abandonded by their SO's because "I'm not happy" (i.e. this other person excites my unhealthy attachment style more than the current stable SO does). Many times relationships aren't even pursued. They're "out of my league", or "I'm not good enough for them", and other such bullshit. And even if approached the other party won't even consider it. They see the approach as a measure of desperation and just reject it out of hand.

    It's all a bunch of bullshit, I just hope people realize this in time before our species goes extinct and/or filled with morons who don't know the first damned thing about real intimacy (which will also lead to extinction).
    God I hate the "Im not happy" excuse. Like what? Anways sorry for jumping in the conversation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaein View Post
    God I hate the "Im not happy" excuse. Like what? Anways sorry for jumping in the conversation.
    "I'm not happy" in truth means "I have an unhealthy attachment style, how dare you be stable and not be the other unhealthy style that's supposed to light my fire and lead to an abusive home!" Such utter bullshit, if you're not happy then fucking say so before we get into a committed LTR and most certainly say it before we walk down the damned isle of matrimony! Gah!

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    @Maritsa I love your face in that picture. It's sooo 'my hubby is such a real logical manly man and I'm his EII supportive humanist.'

  32. #32
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    You consider me ILI, so not a type that is especially at home with , so you are probably not referring to me here.
    No,. I am referring to you. Looking at the description of the placement of Fe in Model A for ILI, I do understand how it fits for the ILI's I know, yet, I will say that the ILI's I know well are not socially awkward, even if they may feel so, and worry inside how they come across. In each case they just fit fine in conventional social situations. But they would choose a quiet evening over a party if they had a choice, most times.


    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I think traits you attribute to Maritsa could just as easily be typical of other types other than EIIs, including -Egos (although different types will perhaps have different focusses).
    I see, but I disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    Consider for example this type description:
    (it is a rough translation, from here: http://www.socionics.org/type/Defaul...type_gul3.html)
    - I did not look at this yet, but will later for you...


    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I think naturally, that each type will have its comparators in various aspects. Such is human behaviour.
    True. But there are certain distinctions between them always, that can make it pretty clear which you are and which you are not.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  33. #33
    Haikus wacey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Now you're getting the proper attitude .
    Now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    Now?
    Just saying that such is the proper attitude. If you like someone romantically, approach. Best case scenario, they agree to a date. Worst case, you get rejected. Rejection sucks but it's better than playing the "what if" game. Best to just get it all out of the way and find out for sure if there's anything going on there.

    Though perhaps you may wish to be the party that gets approached. In which event, it's easy to contrive coincidences. To be "aggressively submissive" as I like to put it. It is possible to come on to someone without actually coming on to them. Leading them to places where it's just you and them, intentionally dropping things or otherwise being a klutz in such a way as to expose and accentuate the "sexy" parts of yourself, etc. Won't be as effective on the ladies but there are girls who can read between the lines as it were.

    Hoping to meet one myself but I'm still well aware that, as a dude, my role is pretty much set. I will have to approach one way or another, girls don't know how lucky they are in this department. Nothing is without cost of course, a hot girl will be approached by all manner of disgusting pigish men who only see her as a pump and dump sex toy (fuckers ruin it for us good dudes who want more than just a bangin' body), but just being in the position of being approached... damn that'd make things so much easier. Once known interest is established you can filter quite easily. The difficult thing is working up the courage to show the other that there is an interest. I guess it's all biology in the end, the cold facts of the matter of Natural Selection and Reproductive Roles are dark arbiters in the matter of mate selection.

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    Haikus wacey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Just saying that such is the proper attitude. If you like someone romantically, approach. Best case scenario, they agree to a date. Worst case, you get rejected. Rejection sucks but it's better than playing the "what if" game. Best to just get it all out of the way and find out for sure if there's anything going on there.

    Though perhaps you may wish to be the party that gets approached. In which event, it's easy to contrive coincidences. To be "aggressively submissive" as I like to put it. It is possible to come on to someone without actually coming on to them. Leading them to places where it's just you and them, intentionally dropping things or otherwise being a klutz in such a way as to expose and accentuate the "sexy" parts of yourself, etc. Won't be as effective on the ladies but there are girls who can read between the lines as it were.

    Hoping to meet one myself but I'm still well aware that, as a dude, my role is pretty much set. I will have to approach one way or another, girls don't know how lucky they are in this department. Nothing is without cost of course, a hot girl will be approached by all manner of disgusting pigish men who only see her as a pump and dump sex toy (fuckers ruin it for us good dudes who want more than just a bangin' body), but just being in the position of being approached... damn that'd make things so much easier. Once known interest is established you can filter quite easily. The difficult thing is working up the courage to show the other that there is an interest. I guess it's all biology in the end, the cold facts of the matter of Natural Selection and Reproductive Roles are dark arbiters in the matter of mate selection.
    Preach.

    Haha, anyway, you think I have trouble approaching potential dates?

    Although, I pretty much agree with everything you said, except the natural selection and reproductive roles bit. Don't you think man stepped out of biological ---> A equals B; centuries ago?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    Preach.

    Haha, anyway, you think I have trouble approaching potential dates?

    Although, I pretty much agree with everything you said, except the natural selection and reproductive roles bit. Don't you think man stepped out of biological ---> A equals B; centuries ago?
    I don't think you do but I don't know you very well personally. You appear to have confidence which would mean little trouble in approaching. And while people have largely stopped caring about the whole biology thing it is still a great influence. Most girls wanna be dominated and protected somehow, most guys wish to dominate and protect in turn. Society still reinforces these notions by and large as well so outliers are still ostracized if their dirty secret gets out somehow.

    I don't think we'll ever be truly free of "traditional" gender roles as it were, they'll always be there. It is hard to ignore the crushing weight of over 200,000 years of evolution. Man expendable, woman precious. One man and a hundred women can double the population in a single generation, the reverse is not true. Mother Nature, like Fate, is a bitch as illustrated by that dark fact and the science backing up the "sperm war" problem. One must deal with that dark reality or be doomed to various forms of unhappiness.

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    Haikus wacey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    I don't think you do but I don't know you very well personally. You appear to have confidence which would mean little trouble in approaching. And while people have largely stopped caring about the whole biology thing it is still a great influence. Most girls wanna be dominated and protected somehow, most guys wish to dominate and protect in turn. Society still reinforces these notions by and large as well so outliers are still ostracized if their dirty secret gets out somehow.

    I don't think we'll ever be truly free of "traditional" gender roles as it were, they'll always be there. It is hard to ignore the crushing weight of over 200,000 years of evolution. Man expendable, woman precious. One man and a hundred women can double the population in a single generation, the reverse is not true. Mother Nature, like Fate, is a bitch as illustrated by that dark fact and the science backing up the "sperm war" problem. One must deal with that dark reality or be doomed to various forms of unhappiness.
    Fair enough. How does that play out in the real time? It seems to me that the "approaching" stage is so brief and short-lived as to make it really a non-issue in an individual scenario. I mean, if chemistry was going to happen, its not going to be greatly effected by who approached who, male or female.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    Fair enough. How does that play out in the real time? It seems to me that the "approaching" stage is so brief and short-lived as to make it really a non-issue in an individual scenario. I mean, if chemistry was going to happen, its not going to be greatly effected by who approached who, male or female.
    I guess that's where type related things would come into play. The erotic styles attract the ones that fit. Victims draw in Aggressors, Infantiles draw in Caregivers, and vice versa. The approaching problem is when you have a gender role mismatch in those departments. An aggressor girl, for instance, may suppress her desire to approach a victim male because every "good girl" knows that it's the man who ought make the first move. Otherwise you're correct, if the approachee has any romantic interest in the approacher things will go smoothly as they just accept the welcome advances. After all, you were interested in them, them saying they are too is a huge relief no matter the circumstances.

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    Haikus wacey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    I guess that's where type related things would come into play. The erotic styles attract the ones that fit. Victims draw in Aggressors, Infantiles draw in Caregivers, and vice versa. The approaching problem is when you have a gender role mismatch in those departments. An aggressor girl, for instance, may suppress her desire to approach a victim male because every "good girl" knows that it's the man who ought make the first move. Otherwise you're correct, if the approachee has any romantic interest in the approacher things will go smoothly as they just accept the welcome advances. After all, you were interested in them, them saying they are too is a huge relief no matter the circumstances.
    I just doubt an adult aggressor female would at that point in her life, be suppressing her desire to approach a man because of some sense of cultural impropriety. I'm I wrong?

    When it comes to the erotic attitudes, I think the bulk of the inter-play occurs in an erotic setting. For instance, after two people have already met? Between the sheets is where the distinction between the different styles is going to be found. Not in the initial approach, as we are discussing here. I guess I am arguing that its not a simple, black and white style of interaction, initially.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    I just doubt an adult aggressor female would at that point in her life, be suppressing her desire to approach a man because of some sense of cultural impropriety. I'm I wrong?

    When it comes to the erotic attitudes, I think the bulk of the inter-play occurs in an erotic setting. For instance, after two people have already met? Between the sheets is where the distinction between the different styles is going to be found. Not in the initial approach, as we are discussing here. I guess I am arguing that its not a simple, black and white style of interaction, initially.
    I'm in general agreement, but one must remember that culture is always important. For instance, in the west a girl approaching a boy isn't really seen as strange 9/10, it has little to any impact on her social standing, but depending on where you live in the world this could be a major taboo that's strictly enforced socially if not perhaps legally. Girls are more social than dudes, it's how they seem to be wired (eg. they're better at learning through spoken instruction, dudes learn best by making connections to visual events i.e. they learn faster with hands-on teaching and visual aids over just spoken instruction), but the social standing within any group is affected by an approach as well as the outcome of the approach.

    From a general standpoint the approacher is the one taking the higher risk, as if they get rejected others will feel better/find it easier to reject them as someone finally did it first. Fascinating facet of human behavior is that in general people don't wanna do something negative "first" if they've been properly civilized. They wait for someone else to do it "first" then the cascade starts (could be an introvert vs. extrovert thing). Thus, if you get rejected, your social standing will at the very least be called into question. Of course, *how* you were rejected will also matter. The harsher the rejection, the more potential social damage is done. "Polite" rejections won't deal much damage, and them already being taken is about as polite as you can get. This is why a girl will say she has a boyfriend, even if this is not true if rejecting a dude to minimize damage. I would assume guys do this too, I know it's what I'd say to a girl I didn't wanna date (real reason: really bad attitude and subpar looks, but saying this is a "harsh" rejection and is thus kinda mean).

    Damage potential is mitigated if in the company of "friends" who can reassure you that your standing among them hasn't been damaged. Thus re-emboldened, you can then initiate another approach or approach a different person hoping for a more positive result which will be met with the accolades and congratulations of said friends. The approachee is the lucky one, as by simply being approached their social standing goes up. After all, if this stranger/other person is into them they must have some positive qualities. Assessment by other parties goes up, preselection is a thing. The fact that you got "selected" makes other people reassess and want to "select" you too. Of course, the approachee, if seeking an approach, is risking their individual ego and pride (especially if they're knowingly doing it). You would obviously adopt a series of behaviors to attract the attention you desire, if you fail to get it then that's a big blow to the ego personally. If that happened to an extrovert I'd imagine the psychic damage would be devastating. Introverts, well, they're already used to being alone.

    That's just me overthinking things like usual though, so there's always that.
    Last edited by End; 12-07-2015 at 03:05 AM.

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