Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 50

Thread: I'm Se PoLR type 9 and I hate the thought of being weak

  1. #1
    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    my own personal bubble
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,108
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default I'm Se PoLR type 9 and I hate the thought of being weak

    Do any other Se PoLRs relate? Do you have trouble coming to terms with your PoLR, fully 'accepting' it?

    I hate to think of myself as 'weak' or passive. I feel like even though deep down there is some truth to it, I still cannot fully embrace it or come to terms with it. It could also be some enneagram type 9 stuff too. I'm about 80% confident of being type 9 now but it took me a long time to come to terms with accepting it as my base type. I just felt better about being a type 5 with a 9 fix but maybe I was just making an 'excuse.'

    It's just that passivity really sucks as a personality trait. Passive people typically go underappreciated and get the short end of the stick. They don't stand out much, they don't seem very interesting. It's almost like in a way they aren't living their lives to the fullest because what they do is dictated by others too much. Maybe it's also because I'm from the United States which seems to embrace Se valuing and aggressive triad types, so I tend to devalue my gentle, mild demeanor. I would like to be more 'edgy' and 'out there.'

    On the socionics Facebook group I was debating with some others about what Se PoLR is or isn't. I said Se PoLR isn't necessarily about being weak but hardly anyone sided with me on that. Someone said she personally saw Se PoLRs as rather weak and even though it was a subjective opinion I couldn't help but get offended. So that in itself makes myself 'weak', the fact that I care so much about someone's opinion.

    Basically my argument is that Se PoLR can be very stubborn and strong minded in the right circumstances. LII will stand up to things that violate their principles or sense of justice. EII will stand up to things that they see as morally wrong. So I think in that sense they are strong- standing up for things that other types overlook or don't care enough to bother with. (This kind of gets into another topic, perhaps people tend to 'stand up' for the things pertaining to their base function because after all it is their 'foundation.')

    I think the problem is when you have to use 'forceful' means to get your point across- make others do things, get them to do your bidding. Or in situations when others are putting alot of pressure on you, Se PoLRs are not going to be at their best. But I think in a situation where neither of these apply, the Se PoLR can be quite strong and resilient.

    Of course people did not agree with that and it made me wonder if I'm just doing some wishful thinking, wanting to make my PoLR look better than it actually is. I just cannot fully come to terms with being a weak-willed wimp and I want to feel like there is some hope or some cases that are the exception. I want to be that exception. I want to beat the odds.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



  2. #2
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Why don't you just do some comfortable Si?

  3. #3
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    On the socionics Facebook group I was debating with some others about what Se PoLR is or isn't. I said Se PoLR isn't necessarily about being weak but hardly anyone sided with me on that. Someone said she personally saw Se PoLRs as rather weak and even though it was a subjective opinion I couldn't help but get offended. So that in itself makes myself 'weak', the fact that I care so much about someone's opinion.

    Basically my argument is that Se PoLR can be very stubborn and strong minded in the right circumstances. LII will stand up to things that violate their principles or sense of justice. EII will stand up to things that they see as morally wrong. So I think in that sense they are strong- standing up for things that other types overlook or don't care enough to bother with. (This kind of gets into another topic, perhaps people tend to 'stand up' for the things pertaining to their base function because after all it is their 'foundation.')

    I think the problem is when you have to use 'forceful' means to get your point across- make others do things, get them to do your bidding. Or in situations when others are putting alot of pressure on you, Se PoLRs are not going to be at their best. But I think in a situation where neither of these apply, the Se PoLR can be quite strong and resilient.

    Of course people did not agree with that and it made me wonder if I'm just doing some wishful thinking, wanting to make my PoLR look better than it actually is. I just cannot fully come to terms with being a weak-willed wimp and I want to feel like there is some hope or some cases that are the exception. I want to be that exception. I want to beat the odds.
    The Se polr people I have known can be strong-willed and remarkably persistent. I don't think of them as weak. Sometimes they can even go overboard and batten down all the hatches in a somewhat paranoid way (I've seen this in some LIIs), or get really emotionally heated and hang on to an issue like a pitbull on a pants leg (EII). This makes me wonder if SE polr is more about not knowing precisely where to apply force to be most effective. It can feel like the person has put up a huge, general wall.

    Furthermore, an upset, angry 9 can scare me. No, thanks.

    I also think that people can dig into their HAs to make up for their polr. I wonder if Si-HA might somehow lead to a kind of inner resilience and a refusal to accept violation of one's equilibrium.

  4. #4
    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    954
    Posts
    5,989
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Need ?

    There are people out there who can help.

  5. #5
    Muddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,230
    Mentioned
    67 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    I'm unsure if I'm Se ignoring/role/polr but I also have both 5 and 9 in my tritype so I can relate a lot with what you wrote. I agree that it suck always getting table scraps sometimes. In my childhood I always was around older adults who would strictly punish any bad behavior instead of being around people my own age, so I guess I developed more passive behavior as a result. Those evil witches must of put a curse on me I swear.

  6. #6
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Actually when I'm talking about something I miss external information and if stuff is moving fast I notice that I haven't seen them. Se is activity levels that I can't stand. To me I would much rather not be impulsive and plan things also I would rather someone update me on the actions that are going about around me then just having me overwhelmed with sensory experience. A little activity but in a relaxing way.

    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    The Se polr people I have known can be strong-willed and remarkably persistent. I don't think of them as weak. Sometimes they can even go overboard and batten down all the hatches in a somewhat paranoid way (I've seen this in some LIIs), or get really emotionally heated and hang on to an issue like a pitbull on a pants leg (EII). This makes me wonder if SE polr is more about not knowing precisely where to apply force to be most effective. It can feel like the person has put up a huge, general wall.

    Furthermore, an upset, angry 9 can scare me. No, thanks.

    I also think that people can dig into their HAs to make up for their polr. I wonder if Si-HA might somehow lead to a kind of inner resilience and a refusal to accept violation of one's equilibrium.
    Yes. I can get overwhelmed very easily especially. I'll stick it out persistently to try to convey my point because I feel (I don't know what I feel is actually valid) that I'm not being heard or understood. So I'll repeat myself till someone says stop and that I've said it too many times. it's troubeling to me.I can look angry and aggressive but often it's just a look. If you saw me in real life you'd laugh.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 10-25-2015 at 05:40 AM.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    5,085
    Mentioned
    384 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    I hate to think of myself as 'weak' or passive.
    Most are generally weak by social standards in their weak functions regions.
    While you may to be INFP.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  8. #8
    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    EII-Ne Sp/So
    Posts
    14,937
    Mentioned
    243 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I hate the thought of my opinion being considered of no value on account of me being perceived as a "soft touch", or indeed, not even being worthy of being discussed.

    I also hate it when others take advantage of my focus on correctness, consistency, due process etc., whether as a means to "defeat" me, or as a way of slowing me down or forcing me to speak at great length and with laboured emphasis, in order that they gain an "advantage" of some kind.

    I also dislike it when others hard press me about an apparent inconsistency in thought or in behaviour, typically as a quick way to appear right in their own argument (or rather, more "right"), even when I usually have a good rationale for something.
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    ESI 684
    Posts
    661
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    Need ?

    There are people out there who can help.
    WHAT'S THE NAME OF THAT MAGIC CARD???

    OH OH, I FOUND IT:

    http://cdn1.mtggoldfish.com/images/g...5BPLC%255D.jpg

    Can't fool me !

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    ESI 684
    Posts
    661
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    Do any other Se PoLRs relate? Do you have trouble coming to terms with your PoLR, fully 'accepting' it?

    I hate to think of myself as 'weak' or passive. I feel like even though deep down there is some truth to it, I still cannot fully embrace it or come to terms with it. It could also be some enneagram type 9 stuff too. I'm about 80% confident of being type 9 now but it took me a long time to come to terms with accepting it as my base type. I just felt better about being a type 5 with a 9 fix but maybe I was just making an 'excuse.'

    It's just that passivity really sucks as a personality trait. Passive people typically go underappreciated and get the short end of the stick. They don't stand out much, they don't seem very interesting. It's almost like in a way they aren't living their lives to the fullest because what they do is dictated by others too much. Maybe it's also because I'm from the United States which seems to embrace Se valuing and aggressive triad types, so I tend to devalue my gentle, mild demeanor. I would like to be more 'edgy' and 'out there.'

    On the socionics Facebook group I was debating with some others about what Se PoLR is or isn't. I said Se PoLR isn't necessarily about being weak but hardly anyone sided with me on that. Someone said she personally saw Se PoLRs as rather weak and even though it was a subjective opinion I couldn't help but get offended. So that in itself makes myself 'weak', the fact that I care so much about someone's opinion.

    Basically my argument is that Se PoLR can be very stubborn and strong minded in the right circumstances. LII will stand up to things that violate their principles or sense of justice. EII will stand up to things that they see as morally wrong. So I think in that sense they are strong- standing up for things that other types overlook or don't care enough to bother with. (This kind of gets into another topic, perhaps people tend to 'stand up' for the things pertaining to their base function because after all it is their 'foundation.')

    I think the problem is when you have to use 'forceful' means to get your point across- make others do things, get them to do your bidding. Or in situations when others are putting alot of pressure on you, Se PoLRs are not going to be at their best. But I think in a situation where neither of these apply, the Se PoLR can be quite strong and resilient.

    Of course people did not agree with that and it made me wonder if I'm just doing some wishful thinking, wanting to make my PoLR look better than it actually is. I just cannot fully come to terms with being a weak-willed wimp and I want to feel like there is some hope or some cases that are the exception. I want to be that exception. I want to beat the odds.
    Se PoLR:

    "Don't ask me about the physical details(the tinier, the more painful) or hassle me with simple physical chores. LIKE NEVER!"

    idk where from does socionics get that Se = brute power / aggression. /shrug

  11. #11
    Fembot Olimpia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    IEI-1Ni
    Posts
    6,528
    Mentioned
    536 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)

    Default

    Here come the observations from someone who is Se-seeking:

    I've usually seen Se PoLR people as being "frail" somehow. Not necessarily always physically, strictly speaking (though that too), but it is like their body language expresses a certain frailty. As if one blow could easily knock them out. It is like their being is permeable, not resistant enough. Se-seeking/activating people may also possess a similar kind of frailty, but it is less pronounced. I believe this boils down to them being actually "open" to Se, whereas Se PoLR is not. And I can see it somehow, as someone who is unconsciously looking for Se.

    In comparison, my ESI E9 friend is pretty small and an outsider may describe her body stature itself as "frail". However, she still looks physically resistant and "well-grounded", which I admire. It makes me feel good and safe. This has applied to all other ESI people I've known. Many of them are rather thin people (not always, of course), but they still have seemed so much more physically "resistant" than any Se PoLR people I've known.

    I believe this is what Se PoLR basically boils down to. It is partly about the relationship your body has to the external world, how it moves there, how resistant or open it is to outside invasive stimuli, etc. Given it is Se PoLR, that particular relationship is rather negative. Whereas Se-seeking people will have an "open" attitude towards it, somehow, which expresses itself in a "positive" way. So much so, them being weak at Se is sometimes not even noticeable.

    Finally, Se PoLR will tend to appear to be (physically) "weak" to Se ego types and some Se-seeking types. Simply because those types value strong Se, strongly.

    But hey, there is no use in worrying about that. It is like worrying about not being able to appease your Conflictor. You cannot please everyone. For example, Ni PoLR people often negatively comment on my "inactivity" whenever I am "going deep" in my mind, introspecting while not moving around much. Seeing me engage in that sort of "dream-like"/meditative state makes them uncomfortable.

    Personally, I don't find Se PoLR people to be weak in their character categorically. As others have mentioned before me, Ti and Fi doms "compensate" physical weakness with ideological strength.
    Having said that, I do get the sense Se PoLR people are not strong (enough for me) physically. But that comes from someone who has weak Se themselves and is looking for strong Se in others.

    P.S: @chips and underwear , rather don't define yourself by your weakness. You don't give your strengths any justice by doing so. Focus on your strengths, and shine.
    Last edited by Olimpia; 10-28-2015 at 01:53 PM.

  12. #12
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    Here come the observations from someone who is Se-seeking:

    I've usually seen Se PoLR people as being "frail" somehow. Not necessarily always physically, strictly speaking (though that too), but it is like their body language expresses a certain frailty. As if one blow could easily knock them out. It is like their being is permeable, not resistant enough. Se-seeking/activating people may also possess a similar kind of frailty, but it is less pronounced. I believe this boils down to them being actually "open" to Se, whereas Se PoLR is not. And I can see it somehow, as someone who is unconsciously looking for Se.

    In comparison, my ESI E9 friend is pretty small and an outsider may describe her body stature itself as "frail". However, she still looks physically resistant and "well-grounded", which I admire. It makes me feel good and safe. This has applied to all other ESI people I've known. Many of them are rather thin people (not always, of course), but they still have seemed so much more physically "resistant" than any Se PoLR people I've known.

    I believe this is what Se PoLR basically boils down to. It is partly about the relationship your body has to the external world, how it moves there, how resistant or open it is to outside invasive stimuli, etc. Given it is Se PoLR, that particular relationship is rather negative. Whereas Se-seeking people will have an "open" attitude towards it, somehow, which expresses itself in a "positive" way. So much so, them being weak at Se is sometimes not even noticeable.

    Finally, Se PoLR will tend to appear to be (physically) "weak" to Se ego types and some Se-seeking types. Simply because those types value strong Se, strongly.

    But hey, there is no use in worrying about that. It is like worrying about not being able to appease your Conflictor. You cannot please everyone. For example, Ni PoLR people often negatively comment on my "inactivity" whenever I am "going deep" in my mind, introspecting while not moving around much. Seeing me engage in that sort of "dream-like"/meditative state makes them uncomfortable.

    Personally, I don't find Se PoLR people to be weak in their character categorically. As others have mentioned before me, Ti and Fi doms "compensate" physical weakness with ideological strength.
    Having said that, I do get the sense Se PoLR people are not strong (enough for me) physically. But that comes from someone who has weak Se themselves and is looking for strong Se in others.

    P.S: @chips and underwear , rather don't define yourself by your weakness. You don't give your strengths any justice by doing so. Focus on your strengths, and shine.
    I agree with regard to most of this. I love SLE but I would never get stronger by working with them or being with them. I shrug and shrink away and resistance only makes me more sick. God doesn't live in the details.

  13. #13
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    When I'm around SLE I look away I shrug. I look down and I don't make direct eye contact. I feel like they just turn and focus on me like a laser. I had a few breakouts a few years ago and this one SLE never failed to mention it. When the same happened around an LSE he never dared . I mentioned it saying "I breakout when I get stressed." The LSE was like "yeah!" And no other attention was called to that. LSE make me feel gorgeous beautiful and pretty just in the way of non emphasis. I love that.

  14. #14
    netflix and don't touch me Emmym's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Midwest
    TIM
    EII-Ne
    Posts
    286
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    All Se-polr and Se-DS types are weak and passive. I think the difference is that in an Se state of mind, there's a desire to interact with your environment much more than there is with Si-valuing people. Even though my Se-DS friends are just as shitty at Se as I am (sometimes even more so), they want that relationship with Se that I don't really desire. I am into maintaining myself and my environment to keep up appearances and attract the right kind of company, but I don't get a sense of fulfillment from Se for its own sake, and people who do seem kind of childish to me.
    someday the grapes will be wine
    and someday you will be mine


    EII-Ne 2w3 - 9w1 - 7w8 so/sx

  15. #15
    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    my own personal bubble
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,108
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nondescript View Post
    Se PoLR:

    "Don't ask me about the physical details(the tinier, the more painful) or hassle me with simple physical chores. LIKE NEVER!"

    idk where from does socionics get that Se = brute power / aggression. /shrug
    Oh I hate being asked about small physical details I never paid attention to in the first place. I also can't stand to be hassled with chores. I do them anyway because they need to be done but don't hassle me about it.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



  16. #16
    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    my own personal bubble
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,108
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Emmym View Post
    All Se-polr and Se-DS types are weak and passive. I think the difference is that in an Se state of mind, there's a desire to interact with your environment much more than there is with Si-valuing people. Even though my Se-DS friends are just as shitty at Se as I am (sometimes even more so), they want that relationship with Se that I don't really desire. I am into maintaining myself and my environment to keep up appearances and attract the right kind of company, but I don't get a sense of fulfillment from Se for its own sake, and people who do seem kind of childish to me.
    ALL of them weak and passive???? That's real black and white thinking. Thanks alot for trying to make me feel better.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



  17. #17
    Fembot Olimpia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    IEI-1Ni
    Posts
    6,528
    Mentioned
    536 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    ALL of them weak and passive???? That's real black and white thinking. Thanks alot for trying to make me feel better.
    You are taking the entire issue too much to your heart, I feel.

    What is the real problem? Why does it bother you so much? Is there any Se dom in your life that makes you feel guilty for your Se PoLR?

  18. #18
    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    my own personal bubble
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,108
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    You are taking the entire issue too much to your heart, I feel.

    What is the real problem? Why does it bother you so much? Is there any Se dom in your life that makes you feel guilty for your Se PoLR?
    I explained it in my original post, basically this paragraph gets to the core of it:

    It's just that passivity really sucks as a personality trait. Passive people typically go underappreciated and get the short end of the stick. They don't stand out much, they don't seem very interesting. It's almost like in a way they aren't living their lives to the fullest because what they do is dictated by others too much. Maybe it's also because I'm from the United States which seems to embrace Se valuing and aggressive triad types, so I tend to devalue my gentle, mild demeanor. I would like to be more 'edgy' and 'out there.'

    It might be a cultural thing maybe.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



  19. #19
    Muddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,230
    Mentioned
    67 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    When my thinking gets too bogged down by Se-related things my strategy is to play some kind of choice making RPG and be the biggest dick possible to NPCs. Works wonders for me.




  20. #20
    Fembot Olimpia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    IEI-1Ni
    Posts
    6,528
    Mentioned
    536 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    Maybe it's also because I'm from the United States which seems to embrace Se valuing and aggressive triad types, so I tend to devalue my gentle, mild demeanor. I would like to be more 'edgy' and 'out there.'

    It might be a cultural thing maybe.
    Yeah, that is probably it.
    Practically speaking, it would be best for you if you simply mostly hung out with fellow Ne valuing types and ignored the Se propaganda.

  21. #21

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    256
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    I explained it in my original post, basically this paragraph gets to the core of it:

    It's just that passivity really sucks as a personality trait. Passive people typically go underappreciated and get the short end of the stick. They don't stand out much, they don't seem very interesting. It's almost like in a way they aren't living their lives to the fullest because what they do is dictated by others too much. Maybe it's also because I'm from the United States which seems to embrace Se valuing and aggressive triad types, so I tend to devalue my gentle, mild demeanor. I would like to be more 'edgy' and 'out there.'

    It might be a cultural thing maybe.
    Culture definitely has a lot to do with it. In the USA at least, life is something like a video game that you have to win, everything has to be turned into a contest, and if you aren't spending every minute of your waking life trying to kick someone else down so you can get above them or trying to find allies (the dreaded networking crap), then you must be relegated as worthless. I think Te/Se overlap each other in a lot of this.

    I think also that mature, well-rounded Se-valuers don't necessarily see those lacking in Se as being weak. Think of Bruce Lee who said you have to be like a reed bending with the wind, or be like water taking the form of what hits it. Such Se-valuers probably would respect someone who might not be able to deal the punches, but can avoid them or absorb them.

  22. #22
    netflix and don't touch me Emmym's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Midwest
    TIM
    EII-Ne
    Posts
    286
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    ALL of them weak and passive???? That's real black and white thinking. Thanks alot for trying to make me feel better.
    Lol sorry I couldn't say what you wanted to hear, I guess.
    someday the grapes will be wine
    and someday you will be mine


    EII-Ne 2w3 - 9w1 - 7w8 so/sx

  23. #23
    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    954
    Posts
    5,989
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    i think i consider all of my weakness as an ongoing life struggle. i just hope i'm not a tough ass bitch when i'm 80 (if i'm even alive then) as perhaps that would mean i went too far...

  24. #24
    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    my own personal bubble
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,108
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Emmym View Post
    Lol sorry I couldn't say what you wanted to hear, I guess.
    Well you could have just not said it in the first place then. You're just rubbing salt into the wound.


    I suppose you also think ALL Si PoLRs are bad cooks, all Fe PoLRs hate fun, festive occasions, all Ti PoLRs can't grasp logical systems like model A, etc.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



  25. #25
    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    my own personal bubble
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,108
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    i think i consider all of my weakness as an ongoing life struggle. i just hope i'm not a tough ass bitch when i'm 80 (if i'm even alive then) as perhaps that would mean i went too far...
    I'm not sure if an 80 year-old tough ass bitch would be cool or scary. I remain undecided.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



  26. #26
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    ALL of them weak and passive???? That's real black and white thinking. Thanks alot for trying to make me feel better.
    Yes. Just like me.

  27. #27
    rien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Canada
    TIM
    Delta NF
    Posts
    42
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    What I like about socionics is that it demonstrates how every type has its strengths and areas of vulnerability. It is inaccurate and even dangerous to say that some types are completely weak or strong. In my view, and apparently in others' as well, it simply comes down to values. Some personalities value and actively seek out Se, and may therefore view Se polr personalities as weak. Also, perhaps because Se dominance is more noticeable than dominant Ti or Fi on a shallow level, people are not really having the opportunity to recognize the unique strengths of Se polr personalities.

    I absolutely do not think you are 'passive' or a 'weak-willed wimp' (nice alliteration, by the way!). It takes an unbelievable amount of courage and strength of character to continually reflect upon personal characteristics that you feel are weak. Few people are willing or even have the capacity to challenge themselves about things that make them feel vulnerable. The fact that you are reflecting upon it and even describing it openly, I feel, is a telling sign that you are as strong and resilient as you say you aspire to be

  28. #28

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    ESI 684
    Posts
    661
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    Oh I hate being asked about small physical details I never paid attention to in the first place. I also can't stand to be hassled with chores. I do them anyway because they need to be done but don't hassle me about it.
    Now, if you don't?

    ...yeah, that sounds like a Se PoLR.

    Just a final question to 100% it. "How would you feel working as a...policeman, sculptor etc?"

  29. #29
    Fembot Olimpia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    IEI-1Ni
    Posts
    6,528
    Mentioned
    536 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rien View Post
    What I like about socionics is that it demonstrates how every type has its strengths and areas of vulnerability. It is inaccurate and even dangerous to say that some types are completely weak or strong. In my view, and apparently in others' as well, it simply comes down to values. Some personalities value and actively seek out Se, and may therefore view Se polr personalities as weak. Also, perhaps because Se dominance is more noticeable than dominant Ti or Fi on a shallow level, people are not really having the opportunity to recognize the unique strengths of Se polr personalities.
    Right. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. No type is inherently superior nor inferior to all other types. It is merely a matter of interaction that makes one type appear "weaker" or "stronger", depending on who they are confronted with.

  30. #30
    Muddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,230
    Mentioned
    67 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    The grass is always greener. As @rien mentioned Se is a heavily externally focused IE therefore it may appear to casual observers that these types (Se bases) have it made. Their personal/inner lives however may be in complete shambles but this is not something that is immediately apparent in the same way the benefits of Se are. You would need to step in someone else's shoes for a little bit to really get a grasp of how their lives are. What you see on the surface doesn't always give you the full picture. (Well, maybe it can actually, if you are perceptive enough )

  31. #31
    rien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Canada
    TIM
    Delta NF
    Posts
    42
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Also, I want to clarify that I wasn't at all suggesting that everyone has their own strengths and areas of vulnerability and therefore you are overthinking this or are taking too much to heart. It's a painful thing to notice that people don't seem to be recognizing your strengths as much as others'. I think this is something a lot of people in this thread are not really acknowledging.

  32. #32
    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    my own personal bubble
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,108
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nondescript View Post
    Now, if you don't?

    ...yeah, that sounds like a Se PoLR.

    Just a final question to 100% it. "How would you feel working as a...policeman, sculptor etc?"
    It's weird but I actually fantasized about being a policeman when I was a kid. I guess I was attracted to it for capturing the 'bad' guys and making them pay for what they did. Which I could see as Ti wanting it's justice. I know in reality now that I would make a lousy policeman. I'm not observant enough on peoples' physical details that would be needed to identify criminals. It's hard for me to use aggression to make someone stop doing something and then have them get aggressive back at me.

    Sculptor, I would also be lousy at. I can visualize in my head how I might want something to look, but to physically create it to make it look like how I envisioned I would be lousy at. I've always been bad at drawing and painting too. And then to try to extend that to 3-D, worse yet.

    I suppose this confirms Se PoLR for me?
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



  33. #33
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    Here come the observations from someone who is Se-seeking:

    I've usually seen Se PoLR people as being "frail" somehow. Not necessarily always physically, strictly speaking (though that too), but it is like their body language expresses a certain frailty. As if one blow could easily knock them out. It is like their being is permeable, not resistant enough. Se-seeking/activating people may also possess a similar kind of frailty, but it is less pronounced. I believe this boils down to them being actually "open" to Se, whereas Se PoLR is not. And I can see it somehow, as someone who is unconsciously looking for Se.

    In comparison, my ESI E9 friend is pretty small and an outsider may describe her body stature itself as "frail". However, she still looks physically resistant and "well-grounded", which I admire. It makes me feel good and safe. This has applied to all other ESI people I've known. Many of them are rather thin people (not always, of course), but they still have seemed so much more physically "resistant" than any Se PoLR people I've known.

    I believe this is what Se PoLR basically boils down to. It is partly about the relationship your body has to the external world, how it moves there, how resistant or open it is to outside invasive stimuli, etc. Given it is Se PoLR, that particular relationship is rather negative. Whereas Se-seeking people will have an "open" attitude towards it, somehow, which expresses itself in a "positive" way. So much so, them being weak at Se is sometimes not even noticeable.

    Finally, Se PoLR will tend to appear to be (physically) "weak" to Se ego types and some Se-seeking types. Simply because those types value strong Se, strongly.

    But hey, there is no use in worrying about that. It is like worrying about not being able to appease your Conflictor. You cannot please everyone. For example, Ni PoLR people often negatively comment on my "inactivity" whenever I am "going deep" in my mind, introspecting while not moving around much. Seeing me engage in that sort of "dream-like"/meditative state makes them uncomfortable.

    Personally, I don't find Se PoLR people to be weak in their character categorically. As others have mentioned before me, Ti and Fi doms "compensate" physical weakness with ideological strength.
    Having said that, I do get the sense Se PoLR people are not strong (enough for me) physically. But that comes from someone who has weak Se themselves and is looking for strong Se in others.

    P.S: @chips and underwear , rather don't define yourself by your weakness. You don't give your strengths any justice by doing so. Focus on your strengths, and shine.
    In our "program function" we also have instincts. We act instinctually. This corresponds with EII's acceptance of duty and responsibility instead of introspective spacy daydreaming responding to Ni polr.

    Did I mention that I love LSE?

  34. #34
    Kim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    TIM
    IEE e7 783 sx so
    Posts
    6,857
    Mentioned
    380 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    As a sidenote, I always somehow perceive IEI as the most "passive" type.
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

  35. #35
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I hate the thought of my opinion being considered of no value on account of me being perceived as a "soft touch", or indeed, not even being worthy of being discussed.

    I also hate it when others take advantage of my focus on correctness, consistency, due process etc., whether as a means to "defeat" me, or as a way of slowing me down or forcing me to speak at great length and with laboured emphasis, in order that they gain an "advantage" of some kind.

    I also dislike it when others hard press me about an apparent inconsistency in thought or in behaviour, typically as a quick way to appear right in their own argument (or rather, more "right"), even when I usually have a good rationale for something.
    LSE will do this. Because they are not discussion focused. They are working and duty focused. That means make your point quickly and move on.

  36. #36

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    ESI 684
    Posts
    661
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    It's weird but I actually fantasized about being a policeman when I was a kid. I guess I was attracted to it for capturing the 'bad' guys and making them pay for what they did. Which I could see as Ti wanting it's justice. I know in reality now that I would make a lousy policeman. I'm not observant enough on peoples' physical details that would be needed to identify criminals. It's hard for me to use aggression to make someone stop doing something and then have them get aggressive back at me.

    Sculptor, I would also be lousy at. I can visualize in my head how I might want something to look, but to physically create it to make it look like how I envisioned I would be lousy at. I've always been bad at drawing and painting too. And then to try to extend that to 3-D, worse yet.

    I suppose this confirms Se PoLR for me?
    It does confirm 1D Se. Now the only thing you need to be aware of would be whether you prefer it or not. Like: "Does drawing annoy you AND you want to avoid it" or "Does drawing annoy you because you're clueless about it and need help with it". Regardless, I wouldn't exactly link drawing to Se. Scultping, sure(also with Te). Paper collage etc? Sure. But drawing...drawing can show which P IE you prefer / use. Here:

    Se drawings: ULTRA realistic ( Carravagio etc? )
    Si drawings: Picasso
    Ne drawings: ??? Something showing the hidden potentials / things about people
    Ni drawing: Chagall

    edit: forgot to mention, I am defining Si most closely to the way Jung defined it. IE seeing things through a sort of lens. So, it gets completely distorted, just like Pablito.
    Last edited by nondescript; 10-30-2015 at 12:13 PM.

  37. #37
    squark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,116
    Mentioned
    140 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Se polr does not make someone weak. And I concur with Golden's observations about the stubborness of LIIs and EIIs. Weakness is a character flaw imo that ANY type can have, and I've seen some damn weak SLEs. Physicality alone is not strength, nor is forcefulness or aggression. Strength can come in many forms, and sometimes the most strength is shown in a person's ability to show humility or kindness. Especially at times when those things are very difficult for most to muster up.

  38. #38
    Haikus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,060
    Mentioned
    223 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I would start first by valuing yourself for being a gentle woman.

    You're a bunny not a wolf, why not just embrace it? Just be the bunny that gets away from the predator- it's a tug of war. Prey isn't necessarily inferior- only weak stupid prey get eaten. The smart prey gets away and passes on their genes to survive. Also dumb predators can't catch up with the good prey and they die of starvation.

    America might overly value aggression and being an annoying dbag but does it really pay off? The rest of the world really doesn't respect us for that- and we aren't the best country to live in by any means.

    This advice sounds so corny and maybe even Oprah-y but really, love you for you. And the rest will fall into place. So many women can't like themselves for who they are and instead they have to live voraciously through an asshole sadist. Avoid the cliche. Love yourself. And the rest will follow.

    Also remember, without fear there can be no courage. Take small gentle risks every day. Show up to places even if you are just a shy widdle LII librarian woman. That's actually a lot more bad-ass then some person who is naturally not afraid of anything and just charges through with no thought. For them it's nothing... for them it would actually be braver if they would be more like you. Just show ur gentle compassionate sweet str8 female face to the world. If more ppl like us simply showed up, we could gently encourage the world to be kinder. But instead we hide too much and complain about how the rest of the world is.

  39. #39
    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    my own personal bubble
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,108
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nondescript View Post
    It does confirm 1D Se. Now the only thing you need to be aware of would be whether you prefer it or not. Like: "Does drawing annoy you AND you want to avoid it" or "Does drawing annoy you because you're clueless about it and need help with it". Regardless, I wouldn't exactly link drawing to Se. Scultping, sure(also with Te). Paper collage etc? Sure. But drawing...drawing can show which P IE you prefer / use. Here:

    Se drawings: ULTRA realistic ( Carravagio etc? )
    Si drawings: Picasso
    Ne drawings: ??? Something showing the hidden potentials / things about people
    Ni drawing: Chagall

    edit: forgot to mention, I am defining Si most closely to the way Jung defined it. IE seeing things through a sort of lens. So, it gets completely distorted, just like Pablito.
    The bolded is what applies to me. I don't the process of drawing itself to be enjoyable.

    I cannot draw to save my life, especially ultra realistic drawings.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



  40. #40
    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    954
    Posts
    5,989
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    i tend towards being quite passive, quite often, and i'm ambivalent about whether or not this bothers me. i suppose part of it is that i don't feel entirely passive - i have an assertive side, and also an aggressive one. being passive seems to be my default, and i can struggle with being assertive, but i guess i see this as something to get better at. also, although type-related somewhat, it's fairly obvious that anyone can learn how to assert themselves (there are plenty of assertive and decisive XIIs). you don't need to become a more assertive person.

    i often feel stressed out around certain polrs because of how helpless they act. i avoid helpless people as much as i can, except for at work, where they are everywhere and i can't get away. the combination of flailing about helplessly and going on and on about all the possibilities, can really get on my nerves; as well as not actually directly stating what one wants or expects. really it's that they're trying to wring assistance out of others, and maybe i just don't like .

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •