Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 100

Thread: chips and underwear's type

  1. #1
    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    my own personal bubble
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,108
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default chips and underwear's type

    Quote Originally Posted by TJay View Post
    Since I've read up on Si subtype. It is all making sense. Te polr =/ inability to use Te. I feel an incredible amount of internal tension when pressed with Te. It's a source of much of my stress. Te users really, honesty are too gung-ho about the most efficient way to do things that it drives me crazy! I'm willing to do things efficiently, but not for the sake of efficiency, but because I may let other people down if I'm not as efficient as they expect me to be.

    I really prefer a more leisurely way of life and feel that people are too much in a hurry and that they need to slow down and enjoy life more.

    ***edit*** I get really expressive around people I know well. I used to be much more expressive, but I was raised in a working class household and working class men aren't suppose to emote, you know what I mean?
    I still haven't totally ruled out SEI as a possibility for myself. I think LII/EII is most likely but I have had my share of issues with strong Te people. I resent being told to do things a better or more efficient way. The way I'm currently doing it is comfortable for me and it works. I care about efficiency to some extent but I far prefer a more leisurely approach.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



  2. #2
    Chains's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,308
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    I still haven't totally ruled out SEI as a possibility for myself. I think LII/EII is most likely but I have had my share of issues with strong Te people. I resent being told to do things a better or more efficient way. The way I'm currently doing it is comfortable for me and it works. I care about efficiency to some extent but I far prefer a more leisurely approach.
    I think it could make sense for you. I think an SEI with good logic abilities and a higher education could see themselves as LII. LIIs are quick to point how these SEIs are not LIIs. Same with EII. Si subtype would have strong emotions that they don't display often, kind of like an EII. It's just that the ethics of SEI is more flexible. So, I could see SEI-Si identifying with LII and EII. I have often felt like an outsider trying to get into both the LII and EII club, among a few others. They'll take my money, but still won't give me a bracelet, lol.

    It's not that you are or aren't LII. That isn't for me to decide. It's that I could see where you're coming from.

  3. #3
    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    my own personal bubble
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,108
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TJay View Post
    I think it could make sense for you. I think an SEI with good logic abilities and a higher education could see themselves as LII. LIIs are quick to point how these SEIs are not LIIs. Same with EII. Si subtype would have strong emotions that they don't display often, kind of like an EII. It's just that the ethics of SEI is more flexible. So, I could see SEI-Si identifying with LII and EII. I have often felt like an outsider trying to get into both the LII and EII club, among a few others. They'll take my money, but still won't give me a bracelet, lol.

    It's not that you are or aren't LII. That isn't for me to decide. It's that I could see where you're coming from.
    I just feel like I'm not as 'hardcore' logical as the LIIs are. Other LIIs poorly tolerate errors in someone's reasoning, are quick to point out any logical fallacy and for the most part I don't really care. I love learning, I love it when things make logical sense. I love the process of just thinking and putting things in logical categories. Yet I'm not overly categorical because I know very well that not everything can neatly fit although I would prefer it too. I would prefer things be logically consistent but sometimes it's not always possible and anyone can make some logical error. We don't need it shoved down our throats everytime we're wrong about something.

    Sometimes what some of the LIIs write is hard to comprehend and digest. It would be better with more specific examples. The thinking is so obvious to them that they don't stop to think that it might not be at all obvious to someone else. But to be fair, I've been guilty of that too. Moreso in the past. I resent it when people say "it's obvious." It's an insult of someone's intelligence. What's obvious to you is not necessary obvious to someone else even if you think it should be. We all come in with different strengths as well as different life experience. In particular, those with strong Ti subtypes I tend to have more issue with.

    I also see to be more ethically oriented than most LIIs I've observed. Feelings in general seem more important to me. I sometimes find myself standing up for what I think is ethically correct. If I witness someone making a remark towards someone that's rather harsh and hurtful, it's difficult for me to remain silent about it. I feel like I must do something to stop the 'perpetrator.' It's like I feel that person's feelings if they were my own. I know it would hurt me if things like that were said to me so I assume the same for the other person. But that person isn't always hurt or offended even if I feel s/he should be. I guess sometimes I need to have a thicker skin.

    Yet, I still feel like I resonate alot with the LII descriptions overall and I'm not quite ready to change over my sig quite yet. Well I'm probably Harmonizing subtype so that might have to do with the above somewhat. People getting along and being comfortable sense of well being is more important than being logically correct all the time. Or maybe I am mistyped. If I'm SEI, I'm probably Si subtype and Harmonizing too.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



  4. #4
    Chains's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,308
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    I just feel like I'm not as 'hardcore' logical as the LIIs are. Other LIIs poorly tolerate errors in someone's reasoning, are quick to point out any logical fallacy and for the most part I don't really care. I love learning, I love it when things make logical sense. I love the process of just thinking and putting things in logical categories. Yet I'm not overly categorical because I know very well that not everything can neatly fit although I would prefer it too. I would prefer things be logically consistent but sometimes it's not always possible and anyone can make some logical error. We don't need it shoved down our throats everytime we're wrong about something.

    Sometimes what some of the LIIs write is hard to comprehend and digest. It would be better with more specific examples. The thinking is so obvious to them that they don't stop to think that it might not be at all obvious to someone else. But to be fair, I've been guilty of that too. Moreso in the past. I resent it when people say "it's obvious." It's an insult of someone's intelligence. What's obvious to you is not necessary obvious to someone else even if you think it should be. We all come in with different strengths as well as different life experience. In particular, those with strong Ti subtypes I tend to have more issue with.

    I also see to be more ethically oriented than most LIIs I've observed. Feelings in general seem more important to me. I sometimes find myself standing up for what I think is ethically correct. If I witness someone making a remark towards someone that's rather harsh and hurtful, it's difficult for me to remain silent about it. I feel like I must do something to stop the 'perpetrator.' It's like I feel that person's feelings if they were my own. I know it would hurt me if things like that were said to me so I assume the same for the other person. But that person isn't always hurt or offended even if I feel s/he should be. I guess sometimes I need to have a thicker skin.

    Yet, I still feel like I resonate alot with the LII descriptions overall and I'm not quite ready to change over my sig quite yet. Well I'm probably Harmonizing subtype so that might have to do with the above somewhat. People getting along and being comfortable sense of well being is more important than being logically correct all the time. Or maybe I am mistyped. If I'm SEI, I'm probably Si subtype and Harmonizing too.
    Yup, prob. just harmonizing LII-Ne. I think the focus on logical correctness is more of an online phenomenon, where many just want to conform to the stereotype because if you aren't as stereotypical as possible people will doubt your type and call you an F of some sort. They are just puffing their brain out. I bet many are much more accommodating in real life. Of course, the other stereotype is to say the fuck with any and all stereotypes and act how ever you feel, which is more courageous.

  5. #5
    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    my own personal bubble
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,108
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TJay View Post
    Yup, prob. just harmonizing LII-Ne. I think the focus on logical correctness is more of an online phenomenon, where many just want to conform to the stereotype because if you aren't as stereotypical as possible people will doubt your type and call you an F of some sort. They are just puffing their brain out. I bet many are much more accommodating in real life. Of course, the other stereotype is to say the fuck with any and all stereotypes and act how ever you feel, which is more courageous.
    Here’s something that has been on my mind lately. When someone posts something I find rude or harsh, I feel offended by it and I feel like I have to call out that person on it, to tell them it’s rude or inconsiderate. This has happened several times on online forums when someone says something that kind of pisses me off, that I think is a hurtful comment. Furthermore, I get bothered when it seems like no one is taking my side on it. When no one comes to say I’ve raised a good point or ‘likes’ the post I made. Then I wonder if it’s even valid to be thinking such a thing when no one seems to agree. Also, when the person who makes the comment doesn’t even apologize. At least say, ‘yeah, you’re right. I went a little too far in that comment. I’ll try to be more careful next time.’ Usually it's things like 'your type descriptions are terrible' or 'how can you be so ignorant to not know your type after studying the system for 2 years?"

    It’s true I’m hypersensitive to criticism and harsh comments, even if they’re not directed at me personally, I can feel them as if they were. I imagine how I’d feel if the comment was directed at me. Most people probably aren’t as sensitive themselves so as a result maybe they don’t see things as being offensive where I would see it as such? Anyway, this is the one thing I hate the most about myself, that I would change in a heartbeat if I could. To be thicker skinned. To let criticisms and slights just roll right off my shoulder. To not care so much what other people think? I mean what practical benefits do I get from being the way I am? I suppose it makes me a kinder and more considerate person, but that benefits other people. It’s not benefitting myself. It’s not making me a happier person.

    So based on this, can I still even be an LII? Because this sounds rather un-LII-like. Most LIIs I know, do not get worked up over such comments like these. Most LIIs are less emotional and thicker-skinned. Most LIIs don’t seem to care enough about ethics to get involved in debating about such things. This sounds more ethical. Whether it’s more Fi or Fe, I’m not sure. I think it could be both. Fi if it’s emphasizing the ethics and morals more. Fe if it’s more about mood and atmosphere. I am considering both EII and SEI as possibilities. I think the former is more likely because I do think I have strong Ne and weaker Si but I’m open to SEI or any other type.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



  6. #6
    Chains's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,308
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    Good. We can be duals then. I'm a conspicuous unadventurous type.
    What dual pair do you want to be?

  7. #7
    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    my own personal bubble
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,108
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TJay View Post
    What dual pair do you want to be?
    All of them!
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



  8. #8
    High Priestess glam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,388
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    Hereís something that has been on my mind lately. When someone posts something I find rude or harsh, I feel offended by it and I feel like I have to call out that person on it, to tell them itís rude or inconsiderate. This has happened several times on online forums when someone says something that kind of pisses me off, that I think is a hurtful comment. Furthermore, I get bothered when it seems like no one is taking my side on it. When no one comes to say Iíve raised a good point or Ďlikesí the post I made. Then I wonder if itís even valid to be thinking such a thing when no one seems to agree. Also, when the person who makes the comment doesnít even apologize. At least say, Ďyeah, youíre right. I went a little too far in that comment. Iíll try to be more careful next time.í Usually it's things like 'your type descriptions are terrible' or 'how can you be so ignorant to not know your type after studying the system for 2 years?"

    Itís true Iím hypersensitive to criticism and harsh comments, even if theyíre not directed at me personally, I can feel them as if they were. I imagine how Iíd feel if the comment was directed at me. Most people probably arenít as sensitive themselves so as a result maybe they donít see things as being offensive where I would see it as such? Anyway, this is the one thing I hate the most about myself, that I would change in a heartbeat if I could. To be thicker skinned. To let criticisms and slights just roll right off my shoulder. To not care so much what other people think? I mean what practical benefits do I get from being the way I am? I suppose it makes me a kinder and more considerate person, but that benefits other people. Itís not benefitting myself. Itís not making me a happier person.

    So based on this, can I still even be an LII? Because this sounds rather un-LII-like. Most LIIs I know, do not get worked up over such comments like these. Most LIIs are less emotional and thicker-skinned. Most LIIs donít seem to care enough about ethics to get involved in debating about such things. This sounds more ethical. Whether itís more Fi or Fe, Iím not sure. I think it could be both. Fi if itís emphasizing the ethics and morals more. Fe if itís more about mood and atmosphere. I am considering both EII and SEI as possibilities. I think the former is more likely because I do think I have strong Ne and weaker Si but Iím open to SEI or any other type.
    chips, this really does sound EII to me, and not LII. i think i've mentioned thinking EII for you in the past too. i've had a hard time seeing you as LII, because i never see hard Ti analysis in your posts. your communication and verbalization is usually more Fi-oriented, you seem confident in making Fi evaluations and acting upon them (as you describe in the 1st paragraph in the quoted post), and you always talk about "relating" or "not relating" to things. also, i see you often asking for feedback, seeming unsure about your ideas and conclusions (weak Te). i think LIIs tend to be much more sure on their opinions about such things - they don't need anyone to "confirm" their ideas (not that they won't talk about them with others). and you're right that LIIs don't typically display the kind of sensitivity you mention. there's a reason why IxTx communication style is called "Cold-blooded"

    it also sounds like you'd be an Oldham Sensitive type, which i would guess tends to correlate more to the Sincere (IxFx) communication style.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    23
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    Here’s something that has been on my mind lately. When someone posts something I find rude or harsh, I feel offended by it and I feel like I have to call out that person on it, to tell them it’s rude or inconsiderate. This has happened several times on online forums when someone says something that kind of pisses me off, that I think is a hurtful comment. Furthermore, I get bothered when it seems like no one is taking my side on it. When no one comes to say I’ve raised a good point or ‘likes’ the post I made. Then I wonder if it’s even valid to be thinking such a thing when no one seems to agree. Also, when the person who makes the comment doesn’t even apologize. At least say, ‘yeah, you’re right. I went a little too far in that comment. I’ll try to be more careful next time.’ Usually it's things like 'your type descriptions are terrible' or 'how can you be so ignorant to not know your type after studying the system for 2 years?"

    It’s true I’m hypersensitive to criticism and harsh comments, even if they’re not directed at me personally, I can feel them as if they were. I imagine how I’d feel if the comment was directed at me. Most people probably aren’t as sensitive themselves so as a result maybe they don’t see things as being offensive where I would see it as such? Anyway, this is the one thing I hate the most about myself, that I would change in a heartbeat if I could. To be thicker skinned. To let criticisms and slights just roll right off my shoulder. To not care so much what other people think? I mean what practical benefits do I get from being the way I am? I suppose it makes me a kinder and more considerate person, but that benefits other people. It’s not benefitting myself. It’s not making me a happier person.

    So based on this, can I still even be an LII? Because this sounds rather un-LII-like. Most LIIs I know, do not get worked up over such comments like these. Most LIIs are less emotional and thicker-skinned. Most LIIs don’t seem to care enough about ethics to get involved in debating about such things. This sounds more ethical. Whether it’s more Fi or Fe, I’m not sure. I think it could be both. Fi if it’s emphasizing the ethics and morals more. Fe if it’s more about mood and atmosphere. I am considering both EII and SEI as possibilities. I think the former is more likely because I do think I have strong Ne and weaker Si but I’m open to SEI or any other type.
    I agree with you on the bad manners. Some people do not realise, others do not care about it. Typically there is some Se posturing involved with these types of comments and behaviours you observe, more so done by the Se seeking types rather than those with the Se in their ego, but if it occurs in the Si types, it usually for different reasons.

    I still think you can be LII and not appreciate it, based on this reasoning, but I will make a point of reading your posts when I come across them in threads, and see what I think about your type.

  10. #10
    Chains's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,308
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    I see Ti in her posts and in her humor, which she has a lot of. LII-Ne with strong role Fi would also explain why she is more harmonizing. LII without Fi role is the stereotypical LII. Non-stereotypical =/ not-LII. Only an LII with no Fi and an EII with no Ti can't be confused with one another. These types can look much alike.

  11. #11
    High Priestess glam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,388
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TJay View Post
    I see Ti in her posts and in her humor, which she has a lot of. LII-Ne with strong role Fi would also explain why she is more harmonizing. LII without Fi role is the stereotypical LII. Non-stereotypical =/ not-LII. Only an LII with no Fi and an EII with no Ti can't be confused with one another. These types can look much alike.
    i know that they're lookalike types, but an LII having a pronounced Fi role doesn't really explain what i see as defining behavior and functional strengths for chips. i see her consistently using Fi-related semantics in her communication, and by her own description in this post, she is comfortable making Fi judgments and acting on them. explaining away this Fi focus doesn't somehow make her LII. and i think her sense of humor is very Ne (which makes sense given that Ne is her Creative function and likely her subtype).

    another thing: in another thread (forgot which), i remember her mentioning that the quadra she relates to the least is Beta. seems strange for an Alpha type to say that.

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    3,394
    Mentioned
    340 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    Hereís something that has been on my mind lately. When someone posts something I find rude or harsh, I feel offended by it and I feel like I have to call out that person on it, to tell them itís rude or inconsiderate. This has happened several times on online forums when someone says something that kind of pisses me off, that I think is a hurtful comment. Furthermore, I get bothered when it seems like no one is taking my side on it. When no one comes to say Iíve raised a good point or Ďlikesí the post I made. Then I wonder if itís even valid to be thinking such a thing when no one seems to agree. Also, when the person who makes the comment doesnít even apologize. At least say, Ďyeah, youíre right. I went a little too far in that comment. Iíll try to be more careful next time.í Usually it's things like 'your type descriptions are terrible' or 'how can you be so ignorant to not know your type after studying the system for 2 years?"

    Itís true Iím hypersensitive to criticism and harsh comments, even if theyíre not directed at me personally, I can feel them as if they were. I imagine how Iíd feel if the comment was directed at me. Most people probably arenít as sensitive themselves so as a result maybe they donít see things as being offensive where I would see it as such? Anyway, this is the one thing I hate the most about myself, that I would change in a heartbeat if I could. To be thicker skinned. To let criticisms and slights just roll right off my shoulder. To not care so much what other people think? I mean what practical benefits do I get from being the way I am? I suppose it makes me a kinder and more considerate person, but that benefits other people. Itís not benefitting myself. Itís not making me a happier person.

    So based on this, can I still even be an LII? Because this sounds rather un-LII-like. Most LIIs I know, do not get worked up over such comments like these. Most LIIs are less emotional and thicker-skinned. Most LIIs donít seem to care enough about ethics to get involved in debating about such things. This sounds more ethical. Whether itís more Fi or Fe, Iím not sure. I think it could be both. Fi if itís emphasizing the ethics and morals more. Fe if itís more about mood and atmosphere. I am considering both EII and SEI as possibilities. I think the former is more likely because I do think I have strong Ne and weaker Si but Iím open to SEI or any other type.
    I know an LII-Ne who does this. Really conflict avoidant LII, that one. Really strong in Ne too. Ti is still the leading function tho' because he takes it seriously.

    Also you are identifying with enneagram 5... it makes LII much more likely than SEI or EII.

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    3,394
    Mentioned
    340 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    chips, this really does sound EII to me, and not LII. i think i've mentioned thinking EII for you in the past too. i've had a hard time seeing you as LII, because i never see hard Ti analysis in your posts. your communication and verbalization is usually more Fi-oriented, you seem confident in making Fi evaluations and acting upon them (as you describe in the 1st paragraph in the quoted post), and you always talk about "relating" or "not relating" to things. also, i see you often asking for feedback, seeming unsure about your ideas and conclusions (weak Te). i think LIIs tend to be much more sure on their opinions about such things - they don't need anyone to "confirm" their ideas (not that they won't talk about them with others). and you're right that LIIs don't typically display the kind of sensitivity you mention. there's a reason why IxTx communication style is called "Cold-blooded"

    it also sounds like you'd be an Oldham Sensitive type, which i would guess tends to correlate more to the Sincere (IxFx) communication style.
    She says: "Then I wonder if it’s even valid to be thinking such a thing when no one seems to agree"

    How is that confidence in Fi as in lead Fi types?... Nope.


    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    i know that they're lookalike types, but an LII having a pronounced Fi role doesn't really explain what i see as defining behavior and functional strengths for chips. i see her consistently using Fi-related semantics in her communication, and by her own description in this post, she is comfortable making Fi judgments and acting on them. explaining away this Fi focus doesn't somehow make her LII. and i think her sense of humor is very Ne (which makes sense given that Ne is her Creative function and likely her subtype).
    Again, try not to confuse Fi role with Fi base. I noticed people do make that mistake sometimes. I've seen her make judgments out of Ti however, instead of Fi.

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    3,394
    Mentioned
    340 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TJay View Post
    I see Ti in her posts and in her humor, which she has a lot of. LII-Ne with strong role Fi would also explain why she is more harmonizing. LII without Fi role is the stereotypical LII. Non-stereotypical =/ not-LII. Only an LII with no Fi and an EII with no Ti can't be confused with one another. These types can look much alike.
    I do also see her as having Ti in her posts, the way of reasoning she uses is much more Ti in origin than Fi, and yeah the jokes seem rather Alphaish. My LII-Ne friend I mention above makes similar jokes lol

  15. #15
    Chains's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,308
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    i know that they're lookalike types, but an LII having a pronounced Fi role doesn't really explain what i see as defining behavior and functional strengths for chips. i see her consistently using Fi-related semantics in her communication, and by her own description in this post, she is comfortable making Fi judgments and acting on them. explaining away this Fi focus doesn't somehow make her LII. and i think her sense of humor is very Ne (which makes sense given that Ne is her Creative function and likely her subtype).

    another thing: in another thread (forgot which), i remember her mentioning that the quadra she relates to the least is Beta. seems strange for an Alpha type to say that.
    I disagree. None of the LII descriptions include even a mildly strong Fi role, so there is very little to go by in terms of how one would identify it. Including all the ways LII could use functions other than TiNe would lead to a more diversified group of LIIs.

    She uses Fi, but it does not seem that this is something other people would depend on her providing(no offense).

  16. #16
    High Priestess glam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,388
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Myst i think it's easy to slap the "Alpha" label on her brand of humor due to stereotypes, but i don't think it's always that simple - i've seen Deltas whose humor isn't that different. and again, the fact she said Beta is the quadra she relates to the least seems significant.

    however if you think she could be Fi role like yourself, then i won't dismiss that.
    Quote Originally Posted by TJay View Post
    I disagree. None of the LII descriptions include even a mildly strong Fi role, so there is very little to go by in terms of how one would identify it. Including all the ways LII could use functions other than TiNe would lead to a more diversified group of LIIs.

    She uses Fi, but it does not seem that this is something other people would depend on her providing(no offense).
    i don't base everything i know about types and their functional use on descriptions alone - type descriptions are other people's observations about how functions manifest in any given type, and there are things i've seen IRL that aren't always noted in these descriptions. here you are arguing that nobody really knows what Fi role in LII really looks like (which i disagree with), and then you use this supposed lack of understanding to justify why chips is LII?

    btw i could be wrong in thinking she could be EII-Ne, i'm not here to argue it to the death or anything. it's just that i see Fi as pronounced in her somehow, and i don't see LII/Alpha as an "obvious" typing, even though many others seem to agree with it, or at least go along with it.

  17. #17
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Sli

  18. #18
    High Priestess glam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,388
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TJay View Post
    Yup, prob. just harmonizing LII-Ne. I think the focus on logical correctness is more of an online phenomenon, where many just want to conform to the stereotype because if you aren't as stereotypical as possible people will doubt your type and call you an F of some sort. They are just puffing their brain out. I bet many are much more accommodating in real life. Of course, the other stereotype is to say the fuck with any and all stereotypes and act how ever you feel, which is more courageous.
    where did this come from? nobody said that chips should act differently from herself. if someone thinks that chips could be an Ethical type, it doesn't necessarily mean they "want her to conform to the stereotype" are "puffing their brain out" lol. i wonder why you are being so presumptuous about how other people think about typing? :/

    if anything i'm often hesitant to "question" people's self-typings, because i know a lot of people on this forum are dealing with non-socionic psychological issues often related to a crisis of identity, and that's a sensitive matter. i only did it here because chips herself said she's reconsidering her type atm.
    Last edited by glam; 10-06-2015 at 06:01 PM.

  19. #19
    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    EII-Ne Sp/So
    Posts
    14,945
    Mentioned
    243 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think you (@chips and underwear) perhaps associate your skills and your mindset as being highly "logical", and the correct way of being, even when it comes to dealing with personal judgements (perhaps especially because you consider all or most evaluations you make as reasonable, qualitative approximations based on well-considered thought processes: you will typically know exactly what your view is on a position, or why you think a certain way, or at least you are able to say that you cannot make a definitive judgment on the matter...and expressing exactly why!: not all individuals are able to readily do this), and so readily identify with : speaking from my own experience, I could not readily comprehend , seeing it as a poor imitation of I also saw myself as being far more "rational" than the vast majority of people (which I probably am).

    is just as much about a focus on an internalised systematic, evaluative thought process as . I think also that -types in fairly impersonal and/or bookish fields can still excel, although they may find it difficult to have little or no "human" element whatsoever.

    whatever you decide, it may be best to simply stick to understanding which information elements and people you value rather than focusing on the exact implications of whatever your type is, and thus trying to live optimally. (It is a very peculiar process to undergo a type change and suddenly seeing that you are scoring differently on tests despite you being the same person! - speaking personally).
    Last edited by Subteigh; 10-06-2015 at 07:22 PM.
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

  20. #20
    Chains's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,308
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    where did this come from? nobody said that chips should act differently from herself. if someone thinks that chips could be an Ethical type, it doesn't necessarily mean they "want her to conform to the stereotype" are "puffing their brain out" lol. i wonder why you are being so presumptuous about how other people think about typing? :/

    if anything i'm often hesitant to "question" people's self-typings, because i know a lot of people on this forum are dealing with non-socionic psychological issues often related to a crisis of identity, and that's a sensitive matter. i only did it here because chips herself said she's reconsidering her type atm.
    I don't mean to be presumptuous. What I was referring to was not related to chip directly or anyone trying to type her. It was observing that many logical types tend to overdo their logic online. I know many LIIs in person and none talk and behave in person as online; the ones I know are way more fun and easy going and accommodating, irl. Not like an ethical type, but still more than they present online. Online there is a lot of effort into proving your type and this often occurs by people behaving in stereotypical ways. This is easily observed on NT forums. When you do not behave as such you are rejected as NT. It is a social phenomenon. Any talk of ethical concerns, if not done right, will make you suspect. If they really are an ethical type, then so be it. I'm only saying that it is entirely in the realm of possibility that an NT can express ethical sentiments and still be an NT. That's all. It's in the theory.

    I thought "brain puffing out" was funny
    Last edited by Chains; 10-07-2015 at 09:26 AM. Reason: grammar

  21. #21

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    3,394
    Mentioned
    340 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    @Myst i think it's easy to slap the "Alpha" label on her brand of humor due to stereotypes, but i don't think it's always that simple - i've seen Deltas whose humor isn't that different. and again, the fact she said Beta is the quadra she relates to the least seems significant.
    These are far from definitive points for typing. The humour thing and the quadra thing as well. What I said about how chips displays low confidence in his ethical judgments seems far more relevant, you didn't comment on that.


    however if you think she could be Fi role like yourself, then i won't dismiss that.
    She is different from me due to the Se PoLR, but yes, Fi role makes sense still.


    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I think you (@chips and underwear) perhaps associate your skills and your mindset as being highly "logical", and the correct way of being, even when it comes to dealing with personal judgements (perhaps especially because you consider all or most evaluations you make as reasonable, qualitative approximations based on well-considered thought processes: you will typically know exactly what your view is on a position, or why you think a certain way, or at least you are able to say that you cannot make a definitive judgment on the matter...and expressing exactly why!: not all individuals are able to readily do this), and so readily identify with
    Yes, Ti is an external IE, more explicit than Fi, able to express the why's. This is where I see Ti in chips.

    You in comparison to her sound more vague, less clear, less explicit, less consistent in expressing your thoughts overall. You are somehow rambling, the impression of which I never get from her.

    Note this is my Ti ego POV You may not sound vague to some other people. But I find it relevant for typing her.


    speaking from my own experience, I could not readily comprehend , seeing it as a poor imitation of I also saw myself as being far more "rational" than the vast majority of people (which I probably am).

    is just as much about a focus on an internalised systematic, evaluative thought process as .
    Why don't you define Fi a bit more clearly than this. From the viewpoint of you as EII. It may help chips.


    Quote Originally Posted by TJay View Post
    I don't mean to be presumptuous. What I was referring to was not related to chip directly or anyone trying to type her. It was observing that many logical types tend to overdo their logic online.
    I do that too but not because I want to appear X type, I do it because it's easy for me to entirely forget about the human element of interactions when the person is not there IRL showing their non verbal expressions.

    Also, I do it outside typology too, I did it before discovering socionics, so most certainly not because of wanting to be whatever type.


    I though "brain puffing out" was funny
    I actually laughed at it a bit

  22. #22
    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    EII-Ne Sp/So
    Posts
    14,945
    Mentioned
    243 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Yes, Ti is an external IE, more explicit than Fi, able to express the why's. This is where I see Ti in chips.

    You in comparison to her sound more vague, less clear, less explicit, less consistent in expressing your thoughts overall. You are somehow rambling, the impression of which I never get from her.

    Note this is my Ti ego POV You may not sound vague to some other people. But I find it relevant for typing her.




    Why don't you define Fi a bit more clearly than this. From the viewpoint of you as EII. It may help chips.
    I suppose for me (when combined with ), is somewhat impressionistic: it manages to capture the whole without being too rigid. But I don't see why this would apply any less to a LII than an EII. So I think the distinction must be more down to areas of competence, as usually associated with type stereotypes. But as I say, not especially useful as a distinction if you consider yourself competent across the board.

    It is possible (although I am not sure) that many of my decisions are based more on gut impressions and then are justified more on an ad-hoc basis. I think this may be more in instances where more than one option seems approximately acceptable. In those cases again, I still generally have my reasons for making one decision over another: it is often vital to me e.g. in cases where I must re-evaluate for whatever reason. But again, I don't see this as necessarily alien to a LII.
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

  23. #23
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think that you are good at telling people what to do. That you don't think everything can be placed into a system makes you delta values already and I think you confuse T types not being able to feel and have emotions maybe that's why you're looking into ethical type. Your speech is so often Si..."comfort, comfortable, comfortable to me, to make you and others feel comfortable"

    Si can feel hypersensitive because it disrupts comfort

  24. #24
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 641 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,628
    Mentioned
    635 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    i'm not going to try to verbalize where this is coming from because i'm bad at doing so & because others in this thread have already more or less put words to my thoughts fantastically - but EII does definitely fit very comfortably with the way i see you.

  25. #25
    High Priestess glam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,388
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TJay View Post
    I don't mean to be presumptuous. What I was referring to was not related to chip directly or anyone trying to type her. It was observing that many logical types tend to overdo their logic online. I know many LIIs in person and none talk and behave in person as online; the ones I know are way more fun and easy going and accommodating, irl. Not like an ethical type, but still more than they present online. Online there is a lot of effort into proving your type and this often occurs by people behaving in stereotypical ways. This is easily observed on NT forums. When you do not behave as such you are rejected as NT. It is a social phenomenon. Any talk of ethical concerns, if not done right, will make you suspect. If they really are an ethical type, then so be it. I'm only saying that it is entirely in the realm of possibility that an NT can express ethical sentiments and still be an NT. That's all. It's in the theory.

    I thought "brain puffing out" was funny
    yea i agree some people are like the bolded, but not all. some people don't attach much to their self-typings, others very much do. i don't necessarily assume that people are "trying" to act like their type (though sometimes it's obviously the case). i know very well that NTs can express "ethical sentiments" and still be NT - and yes, i've thought about that when thinking about chips' type, and i still lean EII because of various factors. i'm sorry if my post came across as harsh.

  26. #26
    High Priestess glam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,388
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    These are far from definitive points for typing. The humour thing and the quadra thing as well.
    i disagree, i think those things can be important indicators. curious, why did you point out the supposed "Alphaness" of her humor if you didn't find it relevant?

    What I said about how chips displays low confidence in his ethical judgments seems far more relevant, you didn't comment on that.
    ah yea, i meant to respond. i've been thinking more about it and i'm not sure if it's socionics related or not - it could be related to her high sensitivity, which has been noted. also we may have interpreted her comment differently, i didn't see that comment as "displaying low confidence" in her judgments, rather, i saw it indicative of some kind of anxiety about what other people think of her (being sensitive). her judgments themselves seem rather confident. but perhaps chips could clarify, idk.


    ETA: i forgot to mention that from my POV, the person chips reminds me most of on this forum is Subteigh, an EII who previously self-typed LII. (this is just IMO, not reflective of anyone else's opinion)
    Last edited by glam; 10-07-2015 at 08:26 PM.

  27. #27

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    3,394
    Mentioned
    340 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I suppose for me (when combined with ), is somewhat impressionistic: it manages to capture the whole without being too rigid. But I don't see why this would apply any less to a LII than an EII.
    You don't see why? Do you even understand what it means for Ti to be an external IE?


    It is possible (although I am not sure) that many of my decisions are based more on gut impressions and then are justified more on an ad-hoc basis. I think this may be more in instances where more than one option seems approximately acceptable. In those cases again, I still generally have my reasons for making one decision over another: it is often vital to me e.g. in cases where I must re-evaluate for whatever reason. But again, I don't see this as necessarily alien to a LII.
    You are getting fuzzy again, LIIs never do this.


    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    i disagree, i think those things can be important indicators. curious, why did you point out the supposed "Alphaness" of her humor if you didn't find it relevant?
    I just mentioned it as a datapoint but it is not a decisive factor.


    ah yea, i meant to respond. i've been thinking more about it and i'm not sure if it's socionics related or not - it could be related to her high sensitivity, which has been noted. also we may have interpreted her comment differently, i didn't see that comment as "displaying low confidence" in her judgments, rather, i saw it indicative of some kind of anxiety about what other people think of her (being sensitive). her judgments themselves seem rather confident. but perhaps chips could clarify, idk.
    I'd rather not try to read anything into the lines that can be really off so I'd like @chips and underwear to clarify, yeah.


    ETA: i forgot to mention that from my POV, the person chips reminds me most of on this forum is Subteigh, an EII who previously self-typed LII. (this is just IMO, not reflective of anyone else's opinion)
    They don't seem similar to me in a cognitive sense. Subteigh as I said seems fuzzy while chips is never like that.

    Maritsa's suggestion of SLI is interesting but I don't buy Fi ego. For the reasons outlined earlier.

  28. #28
    darya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    TIM
    EIE-Ni 3w4 sx
    Posts
    2,793
    Mentioned
    245 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Cannot place you, but ethical is one of the first things that pops up when I think of you.

    Actually, you kinda remind me of @Suz.

  29. #29
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    SLI

  30. #30
    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    EII-Ne Sp/So
    Posts
    14,945
    Mentioned
    243 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    You don't see why? Do you even understand what it means for Ti to be an external IE?




    You are getting fuzzy again, LIIs never do this..
    I really don't see why you find it difficult to read my posts at face value. I thought I was perfectly clear. If you wanted specific examples, perhaps you could suggest a scenario?
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

  31. #31

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    3,394
    Mentioned
    340 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I really don't see why you find it difficult to read my posts at face value. I thought I was perfectly clear. If you wanted specific examples, perhaps you could suggest a scenario?
    It is not about the lack of specific examples, LIIs don't exactly give many examples either so I don't know how you ended up at this guess. This is about the difference between Ti base vs Fi base with Ti role, the point being that Ti is an external IE while Fi is not. You didn't answer me on whether you understand what that means.

  32. #32
    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    my own personal bubble
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,108
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    another thing: in another thread (forgot which), i remember her mentioning that the quadra she relates to the least is Beta. seems strange for an Alpha type to say that.
    One of the reasons why I'm considering delta.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post

    Also you are identifying with enneagram 5... it makes LII much more likely than SEI or EII.
    I relate alot to the 5 description but I'm not totally sure I'm a core type 5 anymore. I also relate quite a bit to every type except 2, 7, and 8. Other than 5, I probably relate to 9 the most.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    She says: "Then I wonder if it’s even valid to be thinking such a thing when no one seems to agree"

    How is that confidence in Fi as in lead Fi types?... Nope.

    Again, try not to confuse Fi role with Fi base. I noticed people do make that mistake sometimes. I've seen her make judgments out of Ti however, instead of Fi.
    Why couldn't an Fi say such a thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by TJay View Post

    She uses Fi, but it does not seem that this is something other people would depend on her providing(no offense).
    I can't recall anyone ever asking me advice on Fi related matters.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



  33. #33
    tejing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    California
    TIM
    LII-H
    Posts
    166
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I've always been somewhat skeptical about you being LII, because although you do a fair amount of , it's never seemed like it has the central place in your cognitive structure that the base function would have. Also, I never sense the cold-blooded communication style from you; there always seems to be an undercurrent of sincerity and personal connectedness. Have you considered EII with a Normalizing DCNH subtype?
    Valued | Devalued
    < | < | Conscious
    < | < | Unconscious

  34. #34
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 641 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,628
    Mentioned
    635 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    She says: "Then I wonder if it’s even valid to be thinking such a thing when no one seems to agree"

    How is that confidence in Fi as in lead Fi types?... Nope.
    this is exactly what i sometimes think and verbalize when it comes to socionics since there aren't any reliable "facts" to fall back on. i could very easily see it as a lack of confidence in Ti.

  35. #35
    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    EII-Ne Sp/So
    Posts
    14,945
    Mentioned
    243 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    It is not about the lack of specific examples, LIIs don't exactly give many examples either so I don't know how you ended up at this guess. This is about the difference between Ti base vs Fi base with Ti role, the point being that Ti is an external IE while Fi is not. You didn't answer me on whether you understand what that means.
    I understand what it means for Ti to be "an external function", but it seemed totally irrelevant for you to bring it up (apart from such language being needless in itself). First I was asked to describe in my own understanding after I had said I have historically had problems in conceptualising it, especially in relation to , then after being asked to describe that very same IM, you mentioned that I was "getting fuzzy again" after being perfectly clear about my typical thought process.
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

  36. #36

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    5,115
    Mentioned
    386 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    One of the reasons why I'm considering delta.
    You need to check IR for this.
    Descriptions of beta I saw are a little "dark" and impressionable N-Fe types may don't like this image and then reject the possibility to be beta just because "beta is bad". As I think you are introvert according to your video, INFP variant is among possible there (ISTJ is too doubtful).
    Recently I saw here INFP Fay wich thought INFJ as her type, then she wrote xNFP in profile.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  37. #37
    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    my own personal bubble
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,108
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    You need to check IR for this.
    Descriptions of beta I saw are a little "dark" and impressionable N-Fe types may don't like this image and then reject the possibility to be beta just because "beta is bad". As I think you are introvert according to your video, INFP variant is among possible there (ISTJ is too doubtful).
    Recently I saw here INFP Fay wich thought INFJ as her type, then she wrote xNFP in profile.
    I'm not clear if you mean MBTI type or socionics type because MBTI types use all capital letters and the socionics types puts the j/p in lower case to distinguish it from MBTI. I guess you probably mean INFP as socionics INFp (IEI) but just wanted to clarify.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



  38. #38

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    ESI 684
    Posts
    661
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    I'm not clear if you mean MBTI type or socionics type because MBTI types use all capital letters and the socionics types puts the j/p in lower case to distinguish it from MBTI. I guess you probably mean INFP as socionics INFp (IEI) but just wanted to clarify.
    They are the same types just explained through different phenomena. Who is to say that NiTe isn't really LI? Who is to say that NiTe is TP? I and a bunch of others just take it for granted that MBTI type = sociotype. Another example: Just because I call a cow, die Kuh, are they different? Don't be silly! As long as they come out the same, they are the same! ffs smh fml!

  39. #39
    tejing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    California
    TIM
    LII-H
    Posts
    166
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nondescript View Post
    They are the same types just explained through different phenomena. Who is to say that NiTe isn't really LI? Who is to say that NiTe is TP? I and a bunch of others just take it for granted that MBTI type = sociotype. Another example: Just because I call a cow, die Kuh, are they different? Don't be silly! As long as they come out the same, they are the same! ffs smh fml!
    They aren't just the same types by different names. MBTI thinks about the I/E and J/P dichotomies rather differently than socionics, and there isn't really a 1-to-1 mapping between them. Though now as I write this, it occurs to me you may have been being sarcastic, in which case nevermind me.
    Valued | Devalued
    < | < | Conscious
    < | < | Unconscious

  40. #40
    hatesyardwork's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    USA
    TIM
    Gamma
    Posts
    236
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I read your 80 page questionnaire thread......very sincere and long answers with a very Ethical Fi slant imo. (I was too lazy to fill one out myself.....I can tell you are sincere in trying to narrow your type down) Lead Fi I believe which means Ne or Se ego.....I say Ne. EII.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •