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Thread: Maladaptive Covert Narcissism Scale (MCNS)

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    High Priestess glam's Avatar
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    Default Maladaptive Covert Narcissism Scale (MCNS)

    Taken from http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...ive-introvert/

    Below the text is a test to see how much of a "covert" narcissist you are. the difference between the two faces of narcissism ("grandiose" narcissists vs "covert" narcissists) is explained here:
    Have you ever met someone who constantly tells you how "sensitive" and "introverted" they are, but all you actually see is selfishness and egocentricity? I'm sure you have, because these people exist in spades.

    When most people think of narcissism, they think of the public face of narcissism: extraversion, aggression, self-assuredness, grandiosity, vanity, and the need to be admired by others (see "How to Spot a Narcissist"). But as far back as 1938, Harvard psychologist Henry Murray noticed another breed of narcissist among his undergraduates: the covert narcissist. While the "overt" narcissists tended to be aggressive, self-aggrandizing, exploitative, and have extreme delusions of grandeur and a need for attention, "covert" narcissists were more prone to feelings of neglect or belittlement, hypersensitivity, anxiety, and delusions of persecution.

    In the 90s, psychologist Paul Wink analyzed a variety of narcissism scales and confirmed that there are indeed two distinct faces of narcissism, which they labeled "Grandiosity-Exhibitionism" and "Vulnerability-Sensitivity". He found that both shades of narcissism shared a common core of conceit, arrogance, and the tendency to give in to one's own needs and disregard others. But that's where the similarities ended.

    While Grandiosity-Exhibitionism was associated with extraversion, aggressiveness, self-assuredness, and the need to be admired by others, Vulnerability-Sensitivity was associated with introversion, hypersensitivity, defensiveness, anxiety, and vulnerability. Further research by Jonathan Cheek and Jennifer Odessa Grimes at Wellesley College found a moderate correlation between covert narcissism and the Highly Sensitive Person Scale developed by Elaine Aron.

    In other words, while introversion, sensitivity, and narcissism are all partially separate traits, hypersensitive covert narcissists are more likely to report that they are introverted and sensitive.
    23-QUESTION TEST (add up the points for your score)

    1 = very uncharacteristic or untrue, strongly disagree
    2 = uncharacteristic
    3 = neutral
    4 = characteristic
    5 = very characteristic or true, strongly agree


    1. ___ I can become entirely absorbed in thinking about my personal affairs, my health, my cares or my relations to others.
    2. ___ My feelings are easily hurt by ridicule or the slighting remarks of others.
    3. ___ When I enter a room I often become self-conscious and feel that the eyes of others are upon me.
    4. ___ I dislike sharing the credit of an achievement with others.
    5. ___ I feel that I have enough on my hand without worrying about other people's troubles.
    6. ___ I feel that I am temperamentally different from most people.
    7. ___ I often interpret the remarks of others in a personal way.
    8. ___ I easily become wrapped up in my own interests and forget the existence of others.
    9. ___ I dislike being with a group unless I know that I am appreciated by at least one of those present.
    10. ___ I am secretly "put out" or annoyed when other people come to me with their troubles, asking me for their time and sympathy.
    11. ___ I am jealous of good-looking people.
    12. ___ I tend to feel humiliated when criticized.
    13. ___ I wonder why other people aren't more appreciative of my good qualities.
    14. ___ I tend to see other people as being either great or terrible.
    15. ___ I sometimes have fantasies about being violent without knowing why.
    16. ___ I am especially sensitive to success and failure.
    17. ___ I have problems that nobody else seems to understand.
    18. ___ I try to avoid rejection at all costs.
    19. ___ My secret thoughts, feelings, and actions would horrify some of my friends.
    20. ___ I tend to become involved in relationships in which I alternately adore and despise the other person.
    21. ___ Even when I am in a group of friends, I often feel very alone and uneasy.
    22. ___ I resent others who have what I lack.
    23. ___ Defeat or disappointment usually shame or anger me, but I try not to show it.


    RESULTS (keep in mind that there is "some overlap between this scale and other tests that measure introversion and sensitivity")

    Below 40: Very low in covert narcissism
    Mid-upper 60s: Average in covert narcissism
    82 and higher: High in covert narcissism
    97 and higher: Very high in covert narcissism - "you might want to own yourself as a card-carrying covert narcissist, instead of constantly telling people to stop criticizing you because your sensitive, introverted soul can't handle it."

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    23-QUESTION TEST (add up the points for your score)

    1 = very uncharacteristic or untrue, strongly disagree
    2 = uncharacteristic
    3 = neutral
    4 = characteristic
    5 = very characteristic or true, strongly agree


    1. 5__ I can become entirely absorbed in thinking about my personal affairs, my health, my cares or my relations to others.
    2. 4__ My feelings are easily hurt by ridicule or the slighting remarks of others.
    3. 2__ When I enter a room I often become self-conscious and feel that the eyes of others are upon me.
    4. 3__ I dislike sharing the credit of an achievement with others.
    5. 4__ I feel that I have enough on my hand without worrying about other people's troubles.
    6. 4__ I feel that I am temperamentally different from most people.
    7. 3__ I often interpret the remarks of others in a personal way.
    8. 5__ I easily become wrapped up in my own interests and forget the existence of others.
    9. 1__ I dislike being with a group unless I know that I am appreciated by at least one of those present.
    10. 3__ I am secretly "put out" or annoyed when other people come to me with their troubles, asking me for their time and sympathy.
    11. 4__ I am jealous of good-looking people.
    12. 3__ I tend to feel humiliated when criticized.
    13. 1__ I wonder why other people aren't more appreciative of my good qualities.
    14. 1__ I tend to see other people as being either great or terrible.
    15. 1__ I sometimes have fantasies about being violent without knowing why.
    16. 3__ I am especially sensitive to success and failure.
    17. 4__ I have problems that nobody else seems to understand.
    18. 3__ I try to avoid rejection at all costs.
    19. 3__ My secret thoughts, feelings, and actions would horrify some of my friends.
    20. 1__ I tend to become involved in relationships in which I alternately adore and despise the other person.
    21. 2__ Even when I am in a group of friends, I often feel very alone and uneasy.
    22. 3__ I resent others who have what I lack.
    23. 1__ Defeat or disappointment usually shame or anger me, but I try not to show it.


    total = 64

    RESULTS (keep in mind that there is "some overlap between this scale and other tests that measure introversion and sensitivity")

    Below 40: Very low in covert narcissism
    Mid-upper 60s: Average in covert narcissism
    82 and higher: High in covert narcissism
    97 and higher: Very high in covert narcissism - "you might want to own yourself as a card-carrying covert narcissist, instead of constantly telling people to stop criticizing you because your sensitive, introverted soul can't handle it."

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    High Priestess glam's Avatar
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    i score in the low-mid 50's. honestly i thought i'd score a little higher - maybe some of my "2" answers should be "3"s? but i guess it makes sense, because while i'm sensitive and worry about what others think of me, etc., i don't think i'm super defensive, i don't have delusions of persecution, and i'm not so self-absorbed that i forget about/dismiss other people.

     

    (5) I can become entirely absorbed in thinking about my personal affairs, my health, my cares or my relations to others.
    (4) My feelings are easily hurt by ridicule or the slighting remarks of others.
    (4) When I enter a room I often become self-conscious and feel that the eyes of others are upon me.
    (1) I dislike sharing the credit of an achievement with others.
    (2) I feel that I have enough on my hand without worrying about other people's troubles.
    (1) I feel that I am temperamentally different from most people.
    (5) I often interpret the remarks of others in a personal way.
    (1) I easily become wrapped up in my own interests and forget the existence of others.
    (3) I dislike being with a group unless I know that I am appreciated by at least one of those present.
    (2) I am secretly "put out" or annoyed when other people come to me with their troubles, asking me for their time and sympathy.
    (4) I am jealous of good-looking people.
    (3) I tend to feel humiliated when criticized.
    (1) I wonder why other people aren't more appreciative of my good qualities.
    (1) I tend to see other people as being either great or terrible.
    (3) I sometimes have fantasies about being violent without knowing why.
    (4) I am especially sensitive to success and failure.
    (1) I have problems that nobody else seems to understand.
    (4) I try to avoid rejection at all costs.
    (1) My secret thoughts, feelings, and actions would horrify some of my friends.
    (1) I tend to become involved in relationships in which I alternately adore and despise the other person.
    (2) Even when I am in a group of friends, I often feel very alone and uneasy.
    (1) I resent others who have what I lack.
    (1) Defeat or disappointment usually shame or anger me, but I try not to show it.

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    salmon

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    23

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    I want to make love to all the good looking people by hyper cloning myself. I think I'm super narcissistic.

    And I have various strange fetishes @leckysupport would agree.

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    67

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    52, but the numbers could go up or down depending on how I felt that day. I figured out what the test was getting at pretty quickly and probably subconsciously gamed it to look better. Or maybe worse. Narcissists are proud of their narcissism and don't hide it.

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    I don't even have to take this test to know that I am one but covert narcissism isn't even a 'thing' clinically.. probably most depressed/anxious/borderline people will test highly in it. Just because I do, does that mean I meet any type of clinical standard for NPD? Hardly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    52, but the numbers could go up or down depending on how I felt that day. I figured out what the test was getting at pretty quickly and probably subconsciously gamed it to look better. Or maybe worse. Narcissists are proud of their narcissism and don't hide it.
    I was up all night and slept sort of strangely so I feel too drained today to even notice what the test was getting at. I was like woohoo another test. It only reflects my current state which may change by the end of this song.


    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    High Priestess glam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by summerprincess View Post
    I don't even have to take this test to know that I am one but covert narcissism isn't even a 'thing' clinically.. probably most depressed/anxious/borderline people will test highly in it. Just because I do, does that mean I meet any type of clinical standard for NPD? Hardly.
    i don't think it's claiming to be clinical, but I do think it's describing a real phenomenon. even if it isn't clinically official, I think it's a useful categorization to use when recognizing a certain type of narcissist. besides, each new version of the DSM has modified its categorizations of personality disorders - it's not as if these ways of understanding PDs remains static over time.

    and yes, i agree that a lot of the people you mentioned might have narcissistic traits (whether they know it or not), even if they aren't full-blown NPD. however, I'd also point out that some traits I have probably fall into some kind of Cluster C/Anxious spectrum, but I didn't score highly on this. i think there's a certain kind of self-absorption and victimized mentality that sets "covert narcissists" apart from others.

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    71 (not as bad as i assumed it could be)

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    35 - guess I'm just a better person than y'all. Incidentally, I score 100 on overt, queen-bitch narcissism.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Can you empathize with other people, and do things for others when it isn't preferable? If the answer is yes, you're healthy.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If itís a disease, itís nobodyís fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    i don't think it's claiming to be clinical, but I do think it's describing a real phenomenon. even if it isn't clinically official, I think it's a useful categorization to use when recognizing a certain type of narcissist. besides, each new version of the DSM has modified its categorizations of personality disorders - it's not as if these ways of understanding PDs remains static over time.

    and yes, i agree that a lot of the people you mentioned might have narcissistic traits (whether they know it or not), even if they aren't full-blown NPD. however, I'd also point out that some traits I have probably fall into some kind of Cluster C/Anxious spectrum, but I didn't score highly on this. i think there's a certain kind of self-absorption and victimized mentality that sets "covert narcissists" apart from others.
    I see what you mean; I just read all the questions and it honestly seems like a test of BPD traits/Cluster B (explains why you would not score highly!)..and not all people with BPD are narcissists at all... I''m not a 'narcissist' and as someone with BPD traits (subclinical however) I resent being called one on the basis of this test.. I want people to be happy and I'm trying to make the world a better place; just bc these questions happen to characterize me sometimes doesn't mean I'm an evil manipulative person, cus I'm not.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by summerprincess View Post
    I don't even have to take this test to know that I am one but covert narcissism isn't even a 'thing' clinically.. probably most depressed/anxious/borderline people will test highly in it. Just because I do, does that mean I meet any type of clinical standard for NPD? Hardly.
    Narcissism been around a bit longer than "clinical psychology". I mean Narcissus and Echo are classic Greek literature.

    Echo would be the borderline side of this greek tragedy.

    It's funny you take this particular topic rather personally and defensively, it's not about you.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by summerprincess View Post
    I see what you mean; I just read all the questions and it honestly seems like a test of BPD traits/Cluster B (explains why you would not score highly!)..and not all people with BPD are narcissists at all... I''m not a 'narcissist' and as someone with BPD traits (subclinical however) I resent being called one on the basis of this test.. I want people to be happy and I'm trying to make the world a better place; just bc these questions happen to characterize me sometimes doesn't mean I'm an evil manipulative person, cus I'm not.
    Why are narcissist evil? They're just narcissists. Are BPD evil too? Or Antisocial/histrionic? Do we need to stigmatize them, put them in a cage?

    There's plenty of monsters in the world and they might not even fall into narcissism or borderline or any cluster B disorder, and there's a lot of people who are subclinical who are just people with relationship problems and a damaged self-image.

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    1. 1__ I can become entirely absorbed in thinking about my personal affairs, my health, my cares or my relations to others.
    2. 3__ My feelings are easily hurt by ridicule or the slighting remarks of others.
    3. 5__ When I enter a room I often become self-conscious and feel that the eyes of others are upon me.
    4. 2__ I dislike sharing the credit of an achievement with others.
    5. 5__ I feel that I have enough on my hand without worrying about other people's troubles.
    6. 4__ I feel that I am temperamentally different from most people.
    7. 2__ I often interpret the remarks of others in a personal way.
    8. 5__ I easily become wrapped up in my own interests and forget the existence of others.
    9. 2__ I dislike being with a group unless I know that I am appreciated by at least one of those present.
    10. 3__ I am secretly "put out" or annoyed when other people come to me with their troubles, asking me for their time and sympathy.
    11. 3__ I am jealous of good-looking people.
    12. 4__ I tend to feel humiliated when criticized.
    13. 2__ I wonder why other people aren't more appreciative of my good qualities.
    14. 2__ I tend to see other people as being either great or terrible.
    15. 5__ I sometimes have fantasies about being violent without knowing why.
    16. 3__ I am especially sensitive to success and failure.
    17. 3__ I have problems that nobody else seems to understand.
    18. 3__ I try to avoid rejection at all costs.
    19. 4__ My secret thoughts, feelings, and actions would horrify some of my friends.
    20. 2__ I tend to become involved in relationships in which I alternately adore and despise the other person.
    21. 3__ Even when I am in a group of friends, I often feel very alone and uneasy.
    22. 2__ I resent others who have what I lack.
    23. 4__ Defeat or disappointment usually shame or anger me, but I try not to show it.
    Last edited by Muddy; 10-06-2015 at 04:33 PM.

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    4 I can become entirely absorbed in thinking about my personal affairs, my health, my cares or my relations to others.
    3 My feelings are easily hurt by ridicule or the slighting remarks of others.
    2 When I enter a room I often become self-conscious and feel that the eyes of others are upon me.
    2 I dislike sharing the credit of an achievement with others.
    3 I feel that I have enough on my hand without worrying about other people's troubles.
    4 I feel that I am temperamentally different from most people.
    2 I often interpret the remarks of others in a personal way.
    4 I easily become wrapped up in my own interests and forget the existence of others.
    5 I dislike being with a group unless I know that I am appreciated by at least one of those present.
    1 I am secretly "put out" or annoyed when other people come to me with their troubles, asking me for their time and sympathy.
    1 I am jealous of good-looking people.
    2 I tend to feel humiliated when criticized.
    2 I wonder why other people aren't more appreciative of my good qualities.
    2 I tend to see other people as being either great or terrible.
    4 I sometimes have fantasies about being violent without knowing why.
    3 I am especially sensitive to success and failure.
    2 I have problems that nobody else seems to understand.
    2 I try to avoid rejection at all costs.
    2 My secret thoughts, feelings, and actions would horrify some of my friends.
    1 I tend to become involved in relationships in which I alternately adore and despise the other person.
    2 Even when I am in a group of friends, I often feel very alone and uneasy.
    4 I resent others who have what I lack.
    3 Defeat or disappointment usually shame or anger me, but I try not to show it.

    Total 60. I was probably much higher as a kid.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

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    23-QUESTION TEST (add up the points for your score)

    1 = very uncharacteristic or untrue, strongly disagree
    2 = uncharacteristic
    3 = neutral
    4 = characteristic
    5 = very characteristic or true, strongly agree



    5___ I can become entirely absorbed in thinking about my personal affairs, my health, my cares or my relations to others.
    5___ My feelings are easily hurt by ridicule or the slighting remarks of others.
    4___ When I enter a room I often become self-conscious and feel that the eyes of others are upon me.
    3___ I dislike sharing the credit of an achievement with others.
    4___ I feel that I have enough on my hand without worrying about other people's troubles.
    4___ I feel that I am temperamentally different from most people.
    5___ I often interpret the remarks of others in a personal way.
    4___ I easily become wrapped up in my own interests and forget the existence of others.
    5___ I dislike being with a group unless I know that I am appreciated by at least one of those present.
    4___ I am secretly "put out" or annoyed when other people come to me with their troubles, asking me for their time and sympathy.
    4___ I am jealous of good-looking people.
    4___ I tend to feel humiliated when criticized.
    4___ I wonder why other people aren't more appreciative of my good qualities.
    2___ I tend to see other people as being either great or terrible.
    2___ I sometimes have fantasies about being violent without knowing why.
    5___ I am especially sensitive to success and failure.
    4___ I have problems that nobody else seems to understand.
    5___ I try to avoid rejection at all costs.
    4___ My secret thoughts, feelings, and actions would horrify some of my friends.
    2___ I tend to become involved in relationships in which I alternately adore and despise the other person.
    1___ Even when I am in a group of friends, I often feel very alone and uneasy.
    4___ I resent others who have what I lack.
    4___ Defeat or disappointment usually shame or anger me, but I try not to show it.


    Total: 88, very high in covert naricissism.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by mu4 View Post
    Narcissism been around a bit longer than "clinical psychology". I mean Narcissus and Echo are classic Greek literature.

    Echo would be the borderline side of this greek tragedy.

    It's funny you take this particular topic rather personally and defensively, it's not about you.
    Yeah narcissism has been around but in its modern form not since Greek times..the word may originate from that myth but the diagnosis and psychoanalysis of narcissism is def not that old. 'Covert' narcissism in my opinion doesn't really exist. Also narcissists are often sociopaths and are pretty evil to me; they are the reason why BPD gets such a bad reputation, because a significant percentage of people with BPD are also narcissists and ruin lives, families, and spouses.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by summerprincess View Post
    Yeah narcissism has been around but in its modern form not since Greek times..the word may originate from that myth but the diagnosis and psychoanalysis of narcissism is def not that old. 'Covert' narcissism in my opinion doesn't really exist. Also narcissists are often sociopaths and are pretty evil to me; they are the reason why BPD gets such a bad reputation, because a significant percentage of people with BPD are also narcissists and ruin lives, families, and spouses.
    The clinical definition is DSM but that doesn't mean narcissism is something we can only discuss in clinical terms.

    Covert narcissism may not be clinical but is it psychological? Psychology <> pathology, it encompasses far more. Yet what is the harm covert narcissism can cause to others as well as to themselves?

    Stigmatizing narcissism prevent people from properly identifying their weaknesses as does stigmatizing borderline traits.

    Are you trying to control the discussion of narcissism because you think somehow this analysis of the topic disturbs your sensitivities? Who are you determine what is valid psychology? And for what? Because narcissists are often sociopaths and pretty evil to you? What if most narcissist is just petty vanity, often not monsters or demons but self absorbed children who perhaps need the world to teach them a lesson in humility?

    The pathology of narcissism is perhaps recently constructed in psychiatry, but the human condition, perhaps it's more universal then we think, perhaps it is something merely rooted in petty delusions and vanity, which we sometimes necessarily maintain and other times catches us in it's reflection, distracting us from the real. And sometimes it is monstrous.

    Perhaps with something real, some can snap out of this mode of self-absorption.

    Anyways so what if this is true or false, if you fall into this category, does it stop you from being good and decent. Is the label more important than the real, and if you are just as bad as the label suggest, what can you do to change it.

    And this isn't about you, but if it is, why?

  23. #23
    strangeling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    1. __2_ I can become entirely absorbed in thinking about my personal affairs, my health, my cares or my relations to others.
    2. __2_ My feelings are easily hurt by ridicule or the slighting remarks of others.
    3. __5_ When I enter a room I often become self-conscious and feel that the eyes of others are upon me.
    4. __1_ I dislike sharing the credit of an achievement with others.
    5. __2_ I feel that I have enough on my hand without worrying about other people's troubles.
    6. __3_ I feel that I am temperamentally different from most people.
    7. __3_ I often interpret the remarks of others in a personal way.
    8. __3_ I easily become wrapped up in my own interests and forget the existence of others.
    9. _5__ I dislike being with a group unless I know that I am appreciated by at least one of those present.
    10. _3__ I am secretly "put out" or annoyed when other people come to me with their troubles, asking me for their time and sympathy.
    11. _2__ I am jealous of good-looking people.
    12. ___3 I tend to feel humiliated when criticized.
    13. ___1 I wonder why other people aren't more appreciative of my good qualities.
    14. ___1 I tend to see other people as being either great or terrible.
    15. __1_ I sometimes have fantasies about being violent without knowing why.
    16. __1_ I am especially sensitive to success and failure.
    17. __3_ I have problems that nobody else seems to understand.
    18. __4_ I try to avoid rejection at all costs.
    19. __4_ My secret thoughts, feelings, and actions would horrify some of my friends.
    20. _2__ I tend to become involved in relationships in which I alternately adore and despise the other person.
    21. __3_ Even when I am in a group of friends, I often feel very alone and uneasy.
    22. __1_ I resent others who have what I lack.
    23. __1_ Defeat or disappointment usually shame or anger me, but I try not to show it.
    56, supposedly, unless I lied to myself, possible

  24. #24

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    I scored 49 in this test.

    I do score high on egocentrism in big5 tests and that fits me, though I do not meet the criteria for overt narcissism because I don't care for unrealistic notions of grandiosity and don't rely on admiration by others. Also like to help people just fine if it doesn't involve too much submissive self-sacrificing. As for covert narcissism, this test did give me a realistic score as I do not see myself as sensitive at all. It would be silly to call myself sensitive and then go on crying about how I'm victimized and be envious of people instead of going out and doing things that have a point. If you want self esteem this is what you need to do instead of sitting on your ass crying all day about how people suck for not admiring you.

    Btw! There is a one-question test to test how narcissistic you are: https://iupui.co1.qualtrics.com/jfe/...ufhcONa8r4VlUV

    I scored slightly above average by agreeing that I'm more egocentric than selfless though being vain is not something I relate to much.


    Quote Originally Posted by summerprincess View Post
    I don't even have to take this test to know that I am one but covert narcissism isn't even a 'thing' clinically.. probably most depressed/anxious/borderline people will test highly in it. Just because I do, does that mean I meet any type of clinical standard for NPD? Hardly.
    Why do you relate to covert narcissism? If you are just anxious and sensitive but you do genuinely care for other people too and you don't care to get jealous over silly shit and don't rely on other people's validation overall for self-serving purposes then I don't think you'd score that crazy high in this test. If you do answer those other items with "yes" then yes you have more going on than just anxiety and depression.

  25. #25
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    67, average

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    __5_ I can become entirely absorbed in thinking about my personal affairs, my health, my cares or my relations to others.
    __3_ My feelings are easily hurt by ridicule or the slighting remarks of others.
    _5__ When I enter a room I often become self-conscious and feel that the eyes of others are upon me.
    _1__ I dislike sharing the credit of an achievement with others.
    _4__ I feel that I have enough on my hand without worrying about other people's troubles.
    __3_ I feel that I am temperamentally different from most people.
    __2_ I often interpret the remarks of others in a personal way.
    _5__ I easily become wrapped up in my own interests and forget the existence of others.
    _4__ I dislike being with a group unless I know that I am appreciated by at least one of those present.
    __3_ I am secretly "put out" or annoyed when other people come to me with their troubles, asking me for their time and sympathy.
    __2_ I am jealous of good-looking people.
    _3__ I tend to feel humiliated when criticized.
    __1_ I wonder why other people aren't more appreciative of my good qualities.
    __1_ I tend to see other people as being either great or terrible.
    _1__ I sometimes have fantasies about being violent without knowing why.
    _5__ I am especially sensitive to success and failure.
    _3__ I have problems that nobody else seems to understand.
    _5__ I try to avoid rejection at all costs.
    __1_ My secret thoughts, feelings, and actions would horrify some of my friends.
    _1__ I tend to become involved in relationships in which I alternately adore and despise the other person.
    __3_ Even when I am in a group of friends, I often feel very alone and uneasy.
    _1__ I resent others who have what I lack.
    __1_ Defeat or disappointment usually shame or anger me, but I try not to show it.

    63
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

  27. #27
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    __4 I can become entirely absorbed in thinking about my personal affairs, my health, my cares or my relations to others.
    __4 My feelings are easily hurt by ridicule or the slighting remarks of others.
    __4 When I enter a room I often become self-conscious and feel that the eyes of others are upon me.
    __3 I dislike sharing the credit of an achievement with others.
    __3 I feel that I have enough on my hand without worrying about other people's troubles.
    __2 I feel that I am temperamentally different from most people.
    __3 I often interpret the remarks of others in a personal way.
    __4 I easily become wrapped up in my own interests and forget the existence of others.
    __4 I dislike being with a group unless I know that I am appreciated by at least one of those present.
    __3 I am secretly "put out" or annoyed when other people come to me with their troubles, asking me for their time and sympathy.
    __2 I am jealous of good-looking people.
    __3 I tend to feel humiliated when criticized.
    __2 I wonder why other people aren't more appreciative of my good qualities.
    __2 I tend to see other people as being either great or terrible.
    __2 I sometimes have fantasies about being violent without knowing why.
    __4 I am especially sensitive to success and failure.
    __2 I have problems that nobody else seems to understand.
    __5 I try to avoid rejection at all costs.
    __2 My secret thoughts, feelings, and actions would horrify some of my friends.
    __2 I tend to become involved in relationships in which I alternately adore and despise the other person.
    __4 Even when I am in a group of friends, I often feel very alone and uneasy.
    __3 I resent others who have what I lack.
    __2 Defeat or disappointment usually shame or anger me, but I try not to show it.

    71

  28. #28
    xerx's Avatar
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    did it for real... got between 65 - 75.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

  29. #29
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    the thing that doesn't make sense to me about this test is, if a quality being presented is "uncharacteristic and very untrue, strongly disagree", why does that still earn you a point? shouldn't that subtract points?
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  30. #30
    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
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    perhaps the +1 is because everyone is assumed to be a little like that anyway. but then we ask, why not just do a 1-4 scale instead.

    higher numbers are more dramatic. higher numbers are h i g h e r .

  31. #31
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    23-QUESTION TEST (add up the points for your score)

    1 = very uncharacteristic or untrue, strongly disagree
    2 = uncharacteristic
    3 = neutral
    4 = characteristic
    5 = very characteristic or true, strongly agree


    1. _3__ I can become entirely absorbed in thinking about my personal affairs, my health, my cares or my relations to others.
    2. _3__ My feelings are easily hurt by ridicule or the slighting remarks of others.
    3. _2__ When I enter a room I often become self-conscious and feel that the eyes of others are upon me.
    4. _1__ I dislike sharing the credit of an achievement with others.
    5. _1__ I feel that I have enough on my hand without worrying about other people's troubles.
    6. _1__ I feel that I am temperamentally different from most people.
    7. _4__ I often interpret the remarks of others in a personal way.
    8. _1__ I easily become wrapped up in my own interests and forget the existence of others.
    9. _1__ I dislike being with a group unless I know that I am appreciated by at least one of those present.
    10. _1__ I am secretly "put out" or annoyed when other people come to me with their troubles, asking me for their time and sympathy.
    11. _1__ I am jealous of good-looking people.
    12. _1__ I tend to feel humiliated when criticized.
    13. _3__ I wonder why other people aren't more appreciative of my good qualities.
    14. _1__ I tend to see other people as being either great or terrible.
    15. _1__ I sometimes have fantasies about being violent without knowing why.
    16. _2__ I am especially sensitive to success and failure.
    17. _1__ I have problems that nobody else seems to understand.
    18. _1__ I try to avoid rejection at all costs.
    19. _1__ My secret thoughts, feelings, and actions would horrify some of my friends.
    20. _1__ I tend to become involved in relationships in which I alternately adore and despise the other person.
    21. _1__ Even when I am in a group of friends, I often feel very alone and uneasy.
    22. _1__ I resent others who have what I lack.
    23. _1__ Defeat or disappointment usually shame or anger me, but I try not to show it.



    Total: 34

    But scoring is suspect. imo neutral should be 0, uncharacteristic should be -1, and very uncharacteristic should be -2.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  32. #32
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    60 pts. +/-12 for the questions I could've answer differently

  33. #33
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    1. _5_ I can become entirely absorbed in thinking about my personal affairs, my health, my cares or my relations to others.
    2. _5_ My feelings are easily hurt by ridicule or the slighting remarks of others.
    3. _4_ When I enter a room I often become self-conscious and feel that the eyes of others are upon me.
    4. _2_ I dislike sharing the credit of an achievement with others.
    5. _4_ I feel that I have enough on my hand without worrying about other people's troubles.
    6. _4_ I feel that I am temperamentally different from most people.
    7. _5_ I often interpret the remarks of others in a personal way.
    8. _5_ I easily become wrapped up in my own interests and forget the existence of others.
    9. _4_ I dislike being with a group unless I know that I am appreciated by at least one of those present.
    10. _4_ I am secretly "put out" or annoyed when other people come to me with their troubles, asking me for their time and sympathy.
    11. _5_ I am jealous of good-looking people.
    12. _5_ I tend to feel humiliated when criticized.
    13. _3_ I wonder why other people aren't more appreciative of my good qualities.
    14. _2_ I tend to see other people as being either great or terrible.
    15. _2_ I sometimes have fantasies about being violent without knowing why.
    16. _5_ I am especially sensitive to success and failure.
    17. _3_ I have problems that nobody else seems to understand.
    18. _5_ I try to avoid rejection at all costs.
    19. _4_ My secret thoughts, feelings, and actions would horrify some of my friends.
    20. _2_ I tend to become involved in relationships in which I alternately adore and despise the other person.
    21. _4_ Even when I am in a group of friends, I often feel very alone and uneasy.
    22. _5_ I resent others who have what I lack.
    23. _5_ Defeat or disappointment usually shame or anger me, but I try not to show it.



    92, but I don't believe in covert narcissism. I'm a burger.

  34. #34
    suedehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mu4 View Post
    The clinical definition is DSM but that doesn't mean narcissism is something we can only discuss in clinical terms.

    Covert narcissism may not be clinical but is it psychological? Psychology <> pathology, it encompasses far more. Yet what is the harm covert narcissism can cause to others as well as to themselves?

    Stigmatizing narcissism prevent people from properly identifying their weaknesses as does stigmatizing borderline traits.

    Are you trying to control the discussion of narcissism because you think somehow this analysis of the topic disturbs your sensitivities? Who are you determine what is valid psychology? And for what? Because narcissists are often sociopaths and pretty evil to you? What if most narcissist is just petty vanity, often not monsters or demons but self absorbed children who perhaps need the world to teach them a lesson in humility?

    The pathology of narcissism is perhaps recently constructed in psychiatry, but the human condition, perhaps it's more universal then we think, perhaps it is something merely rooted in petty delusions and vanity, which we sometimes necessarily maintain and other times catches us in it's reflection, distracting us from the real. And sometimes it is monstrous.

    Perhaps with something real, some can snap out of this mode of self-absorption.

    Anyways so what if this is true or false, if you fall into this category, does it stop you from being good and decent. Is the label more important than the real, and if you are just as bad as the label suggest, what can you do to change it.

    And this isn't about you, but if it is, why?
    >Narcissist
    >Schizoid-esque solipsism and hermitry

    Pick one.

    Most of these supposed covert npd's that you bandy on about are just autists whom you're projecting malicious intent onto.

  35. #35
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    35
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If itís a disease, itís nobodyís fault. Yay empiricism.

  36. #36
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    55. Kind of in self-centered phase right now 'cause working on some stuff.

  37. #37
    what is essential is invisible to the eye fox's Avatar
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    Covert Narcissism at it's finest.




    Another example of Covert Narcissism: Kim Kardashian's reaction to her sisters pregnancy bluff.

    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

  38. #38
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    Kim is 100%ESE

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Kim is 100%ESE
    Yup : )

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    Covert Narcissism at it's finest.




    Another example of Covert Narcissism: Kim Kardashian's reaction to her sisters pregnancy bluff.

    ER: Aspergers with some Narc traits and Psychosis

    KK: The real deal

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