Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: self preservation fours - socionics Si?

  1. #1

    Default self preservation fours - socionics Si?

    This description of self preservation fours made me think of socionics Si:

    Self-Preservation 4 - Seeking Safety/Comfort

    • Udit Patel "The Sensualist (Ichazo's "Reckless/Dauntless")"

      Self-Preservation Fours focus their envy and hypersensitivity on their concerns about their immediate environment and on their quest for physical comfort. They attempt to deal with emotional issues by surrounding themselves with as much luxury and beauty as they can afford, by indulging in their favorite foods, and by giving themselves "consolation prizes" for their suffering. They might be disappointed about a job situation or a failing relationship, and so stay up late at night drinking expensive cognac and watching a favorite movie. Self-Pres Fours are particularly sensitive to comfort issues—the temperature of a room, the quality of the lighting, the humidity or lack of it, the weather—all produce powerful emotional responses. Self-Pres Fours become frustrated that the environment is insufficiently attuned to their personal needs. Attempts to control the environment and self-indulgence in rich foods, drink, drugs, or other sensual distractions can exhaust Self-Pres Fours, leaving them unable to function well outside of their own narrowing world.
    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    everywhere at once
    Posts
    8,449
    Mentioned
    203 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    By that logic, every sp-first type will sound Si.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    By that logic, every sp-first type will sound Si.
    I looked up the other sp type descriptions to compare, only the four description talks specifically about being sensitive to room temperature, lighting, etc. and wanting to attune the environment to one's own needs, which I'd associate with Socionics Si. The others are more generally about health and security. Maybe sp-4 is Si base in socionics and others are Si conflated with some other function, or weak/unvalued Si, eg. sp-1's could be Te + Si, so ESTj in socionics, sp-2 could be Fe+Si (ESFj), etc.


    Self-Preservation 1
    - Seeking Saftey/Comfort

    • Udit Patel Self-Control (Ichazo's "Anxiety")

      Self-Preservation Ones focus their resentment and perfectionism in areas of health, self-management, and homemaking. They are not necessarily worked up about the plight of refugees in the Third World but may have very firm convictions about proper diet and exercise or the best way to maintain one's household or family budget. Self-Pres Ones like to be organized, to have their life structured, and their possessions put in their proper place. They are neat, punctual, and fastidious—sometimes to a fault. They believe that controlling the "dirt" and chaos in their lives will enhance their well being, even their survival. It seems to them that a well-ordered life is the best hedge against chaos and danger, and they are concerned that any mistakes on their part could have dire consequences. Thus, they tend to be careful and meticulous in the planning of their lives. Many Self-Pres Ones also take an active interest in preventative health matters: vitamins, cleansing diets and fasts, exercise routines, alternative medicine, and cutting-edge medical knowledge.



    Self-Preservation 2 - Seeking Saftey/Comfort

    • Udit Patel Entitlement (Ichazo's "Me First")

      Twos typically deal with their own self-preservation needs by first taking care of others' self-preservation needs. They feel that they will win others' love by providing them with nurturing and caretaking. They derive a great deal of satisfaction from feelings of service to others or to causes. They are able to anticipate people's needs and then try to fulfill them. ("You poor thing, you look hungry.") Of course, after taking care of others for a while, Self-Pres Twos begin to expect that others will reciprocate and take care of their needs. But because they are Twos, they feel that they cannot ask directly for what they need. They must drop hints and continue to take care of the other person with the hope that he or she will eventually respond with care for the Two. Over time, this gives Self-Pres Twos a feeling of entitlement. ("After all I've done for them, I deserve this treat.") The problem is that Self Pres Twos feel ashamed of having physical needs. Thus, when others fail to reciprocate in the way that Twos hope, they may privately overindulge in self-preservation "goodies"—comfort foods, sweets, drink, and prescription medicines are frequent choices. They keep hidden stashes of their favorite indulgences as a way of compensating for feelings of loneliness and rejection. Unfortunately, the rewards that Self Pres Twos give themselves often endanger their health and well being, which ironically, undermines their ability to help others.



    Self-Preservation 3 - Seeking Saftey/Comfort

    • Udit Patel The Workaholic (Ichazo's "Security")

      Self-Preservation Threes feel their value is dependent on their ability to take care of basic security needs. They strive to be practical and to make sure that they and their family have more-than-adequate resources. For many Threes this means some kind of financial success. Thus, Self Pres Threes work constantly to ensure they are building up a solid foundation. The problem is that they often find themselves unable to stop working. Because they believe their personal value is at stake, they cannot easily slow down or lighten their workload. To even take a weekend off could lead to financial failure—or so they believe. This lifestyle eventually takes its toll on their health and relationships. They may fit regular work-outs at the gym into their busy schedules in order to stay healthy but frequently neglect to rest and take quiet time. Others can find it difficult to make intimate contact with Self-Pres Threes once they are caught up in their drive for security and success.

      Of the three instinctual variants of this type, the Self-Pres Three has the most difficulty contacting feelings. They tend to express affection through accomplishing things for their partner and by meeting practical expectations. But they may begin to see all of their relationships in terms of functional roles, transactions, task lists, and how well they and the people in their lives are fulfilling these roles. While this can be efficient up to a point, it often ends up creating distance between Self-Pres Threes and the people they care about.


    Self-Preservation 4 - Seeking Safety/Comfort

    • Udit Patel "The Sensualist (Ichazo's "Reckless/Dauntless")"

      Self-Preservation Fours focus their envy and hypersensitivity on their concerns about their immediate environment and on their quest for physical comfort. They attempt to deal with emotional issues by surrounding themselves with as much luxury and beauty as they can afford, by indulging in their favorite foods, and by giving themselves "consolation prizes" for their suffering. They might be disappointed about a job situation or a failing relationship, and so stay up late at night drinking expensive cognac and watching a favorite movie. Self-Pres Fours are particularly sensitive to comfort issues—the temperature of a room, the quality of the lighting, the humidity or lack of it, the weather—all produce powerful emotional responses. Self-Pres Fours become frustrated that the environment is insufficiently attuned to their personal needs. Attempts to control the environment and self-indulgence in rich foods, drink, drugs, or other sensual distractions can exhaust Self-Pres Fours, leaving them unable to function well outside of their own narrowing world.



    Self-Preservation 5 - Seeking Saftey/Comfort

    • Udit Patel Isolation (Ichazo's "Castle")

      Self-Preservation Fives are the most introverted Fives—the Fives most likely to seek long periods of privacy and solitude. The hoarding of the Five is focused in the areas of practical resources, living quarters, and personal space. Self-Pres Fives attempt to find out how few self-preservation needs they can subsist on, likely agreeing with Thoreau's statement that "A man is rich in proportion to what he can do without." They are intensely private people who seem to require few comforts, even if they have substantial personal wealth. To some degree, they enjoy the company of trusted others and enjoy sharing their knowledge with people. They can also be counted on for their sense of whimsy and oddball humor. Nonetheless, Self-Pres Fives need lots of time by themselves to regenerate their energy. Many choose to live alone, or if they are in a partnership, they require personal space (such as a study or a nook in the basement) into which others, even loved ones, will not intrude. They also tend to hoard personal effects, stockpiling their homes like castles preparing for a siege. As much as they may like and admire others, they attempt to keep their relationships few and simple, so that they can focus on what holds interest for them.

    Self-Preservation 6 - Seeking Saftey/Comfort

    • Udit Patel "Responsibility (Ichazo's "Affection")"

      Self-Preservation Sixes find their security through safeguarding resources—money, food, property, shelter, and so forth—and tend to chronically worry about these things. ("Have the bills been paid?" "Have the car's brakes been checked recently?" "Do we have enough insurance?") They care a great deal about safety and thrift. Indeed, Self-Pres Sixes feel most secure when they are responsible for financial matters, and believe that their effective running of these affairs is something they can contribute. When they are less secure, however, they do not trust others to be responsible. They need to be constantly informed, if not entirely in control, of practical matters that affect them. Self-Pres Sixes can be funny and friendly and want to be involved and engaged, but they have difficulty relaxing, especially around unfamiliar others. They are more introverted and more likely to be loners than the other Sixes. When more stressed, they may stay in punishing situations longer than they should (bad jobs, bad marriages) or become concerned with having control of resources, like a less healthy Eight.

    Self-Preservation 7 - Seeking Saftey/Comfort

    • Udit Patel "Getting Mine (Ichazo's "Defenders")"

      Self-Preservation Sevens are the most materialistic Sevens. This does not necessarily mean that they are always accumulating possessions, but they do thoroughly enjoy the things of the material world. They also enjoy thinking about acquiring possessions and experiences. Thus, reading catalogues, restaurant guides, movie reviews, travel books, and brochures is often a favorite pastime. Generally, however, they are not daydreamers: they want to actually do or buy the things they are thinking about. Exploring the different pleasures the world offers seems to Self-Pres Sevens what life is about. They love shopping and are especially thrilled by the prospect of getting a great bargain—obtaining the desired object or experience at well below the "normal" cost. Thus, they tend to be the person to consult for a good hotel in a particular city or to find the best place to buy a new laptop computer. Often, they will cultivate other friends who are knowledgeable about mutual interests to exchange information about bargains and to stay up with the newest developments available. Many Self-Pres Sevens like to "live large" and may spend more than they can afford to sustain their appetite for experience and luxury. Unconsciously, they may have unrealistic expectations that the world should provide them with whatever they need on demand. To the extent that Sevens succumb to this expectation, they are likely to be frustrated and disappointed.



    Self-Preservation 8 - Seeking Saftey/Comfort

    • Udit Patel "Responsibility (Ichazo's "Affection")"

      Self-Preservation Eights most live out the Eights' need for independence through the accumulation of power, position, and, sometimes, material wealth. That is not to say that all Self-Pres Eights are wealthy—most are not—but that this Variant seeks to have and to control whatever resources they can in order to maintain their independence and dominance. Thus, these Eights make shrewd business people and politicians and are extremely practical, approaching life with a tough-minded pragmatism they see as being simply "realistic." Often private people, their home is very important to them. Whether man or woman, the Self-Pres Eight rules the roost and is likely to control resources within the household. Positively, they are often excellent providers and have a way of landing on their feet no matter what life throws at them. Trouble spots include difficulty empathizing with the needs of others, especially if they perceive others as weak or ineffectual. Self-Pres Eights most typify the shrewd, pragmatic, wheeler-dealer aspect of this personality type.

    Self-Preservation 9 - Seeking Saftey/Comfort

    • Udit Patel The Comfort Seeker (Ichazo's "Appetite")

      Self-Preservation Nines are perhaps the most easygoing Nines, but they are also the most likely to need time alone, untroubled by other people's influence and requirements. They seek a sense of well-being through comfort: familiar routines, "comfort foods," and a supportive, uncomplicated environment are all highly valued. Self-Pres Nines have their own way of doing things, their own pace, and their own philosophy of life, and they will stubbornly resist any effort to change any of these things. Self-Pres Nines are also people of few words, preferring to communicate in nonverbal ways. They often pretend to be less savvy and aware than they actually are, as if tempting other people to underestimate them—so that they will be left alone. Positively, they are grounded and patient, possessing a great deal of common sense. They tend to have problems with overindulging themselves in food and drink, or conversely with rigorously controlling their diets—this is especially true of Self-Pres Nines with the One wing. They may also lack physical exercise. In any case, having their routine and lifestyle change is very challenging for them.

  4. #4
    Simo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    564
    Mentioned
    42 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think sp relate to Si in a similar way as so relate to Fe, not the same thing but amplify each other.
    but why E4 sp specifically? I don't know but I can see hints of Si in most of the descriptions, maybe 8 sounds more like Se

  5. #5
    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    954
    Posts
    5,989
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    usually whenever i read things in enneagram descriptions about adjusting the heater or the lighting, i disregard it, unless i can see a real link to the type (which i don't think adjusting the lighting to suit one's preferences is an important enneagram relevant sort of behavior). with the sp four, i think what it may do is buy things, or comfort eat, or indulge in drugs (or essentially become increasingly physically and materially wasteful - i mean, expressive) as compensation for the pain it feels it has endured. but also simply to be self-destructive and self-sabotaging - an art of type four. i suspect even an polr can manage self-destructive hedonism? (but i'm curious about this question too.)

    that said, one way that i could totally see type four getting touchy about the lighting or heating or whatever, is to use it as a way to be dramatic, and to show how "nothing is right." no matter what you adjust these silly things to it's always just too bright, or just too dark... or too hot, or too cold. it's always wrong. (this could be a piece of a larger dramatic fit to play out. many fours may tend to complain a lot - and you need *something* to complain about: your food, or the temperature, may not be the most profound subjects, but they will do...)

    in other words, what is missing, is from the environment in this case.
    Last edited by inumbra; 10-05-2015 at 06:18 PM.

  6. #6
    silke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    TIM
    Ni-IEI sx/sp
    Posts
    3,794
    Mentioned
    317 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    We had some discussions about this before, concerning the overlaps between instincts and socionics types, particularly Si vs. self-pres and Soc vs. "aristocracy", but there hasn't been much progress made in attempts to differentiate and distinguish them. From my own observations, I would say that a lot of what gets attributed to Si in socionics is actually pertinent to enneagram's self-pres, and that socionics definitions of Si have always felt confuzzling in this regard and in need of further revisions. There was also a trend in typings that I've noticed in socionics communities where some Sp-last socionics beginners would heavily doubt being part of Si/Ne quadra, because they simply didn't value convenience and 'physical' stimuli to such an extent, and only later, through intertypes and otherwise, they would sidestep these notions about Si.

    The theories of instincts and enneagram aren't as developed and popular in Russ-speaking socionics study groups, so they for the most part don't know of these question-raising overlaps in prescribed traits between the two personality models.

  7. #7
    what is essential is invisible to the eye fox's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Space
    TIM
    Seer
    Posts
    12,806
    Mentioned
    367 Post(s)
    Tagged
    9 Thread(s)

    Default

    I'm an IEI 4 sp first. It's true I focus on my own personal environment & like to be comfortable at all times. Things like sticky hands or crums or sand in my bed are panic inducing. When my privacy is invaded or when my things are messed with I go into rage mode.

    At the same time I could never be a sensor... I'm too inward and involved in my own world, I don't notice much about the outside world or see what's going on around me. For example, I could be in a room and not notice that it has blue walls, or I could visit a city and not pay attention to or remember any details about it. I'll just be focused on my own mind and my memories of the place will be memories of how I was feeling at the time. This could also be Te PoLR related, but I am also unaware of the personal comfort of others. I more or less expect others to take care of themselves or I won't notice that someone is in need of somthing like a Si ego would.
    Last edited by fox; 10-06-2015 at 02:47 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

  8. #8
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    2,536
    Mentioned
    375 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Udit Patel's description of self-preservation 5's is an extremely accurate description of my ex, who is an SLI-Te (si-dom). Every word is true.

  9. #9
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    SEER ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,893
    Mentioned
    732 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    My mom is an LSI so/sp 136. I have been reading through the links here and found a few things that are making me doubt the syn-flow, contra-flow theory. First off she is very focused on security and comfort but she was very socially involved in the church, voted, did whatever civil duties required of her. I typed her so/sp primarily on the contra-flow concept and the romance style I saw on another site. This is starting to confuse me because she has a bit of a cold logical exterior, as her general disposition, but when she is involved with groups she is a totally different person. All smiles and warmer to strangers than to her own family. She recently had a life altering event that has made her a warmer person toward our family. She was always warmer to my other siblings than me. I think she resented all the money and social shame I cost her during my teenage years. We are past that now though.

    Anyway I am now not sure if she is an so/sp 1 or an sp/so 1.

    I wonder if she is a so/sp that seems more sp first under stress.

    Under Stress (One goes to average Four)

    Ones begin to feel alienated and moody when they sense that others do not take them or their values seriously. They feel obligated to do the work they believe others will not do—or will not do as well—and they become more resentful. They feel misunderstood by their peers and often withdraw from others to sort out their feelings, much like average-to-unhealthy Fours. Similarly, Ones under prolonged stress can become disillusioned with themselves and their lot in life. Over time, they can become depressed and isolated, often turning to self-indulgent behavior in an attempt to feel better. They allow themselves various "escape hatches" —indulgences that go against their expressed values in some way. For instance, a One who is scrupulously observing rigorous health regimens and diets might start treating herself to ice cream sodas or chocolate bars. Guilt usually follows, leaving her more depressed and critical of herself.
    This also fits her pretty well.

    - Seeking Saftey/Comfort


    • Udit Patel Self-Control (Ichazo's "Anxiety")

      Self-Preservation Ones focus their resentment and perfectionism in areas of health, self-management, and homemaking. They are not necessarily worked up about the plight of refugees in the Third World but may have very firm convictions about proper diet and exercise or the best way to maintain one's household or family budget. Self-Pres Ones like to be organized, to have their life structured, and their possessions put in their proper place. They are neat, punctual, and fastidious—sometimes to a fault. They believe that controlling the "dirt" and chaos in their lives will enhance their well being, even their survival. It seems to them that a well-ordered life is the best hedge against chaos and danger, and they are concerned that any mistakes on their part could have dire consequences. Thus, they tend to be careful and meticulous in the planning of their lives. Many Self-Pres Ones also take an active interest in preventative health matters: vitamins, cleansing diets and fasts, exercise routines, alternative medicine, and cutting-edge medical knowledge.
    But then again so does this but not so much in terms of bringing attention to things. More like jumping in and doing her part. I know social status was very important to her but so was security,

    Social Ones: The Crusader (Ichazo's "Inadaptability")

    Social Ones focus their perfectionism in the social realm; thus, they are interested in local and world affairs. What is going on with the school district? Has that new environmental legislation been passed? Why doesn't anyone care about the enormous problem of world hunger? Social Ones take these issues personally, and they devote their time and energy to bringing people's attention to social ills. In other words, they do not want merely to talk about problems, they want to get involved and take action. While they may work tirelessly for the causes that they care about, Social Ones may have trouble developing a personal life. They are not particularly interested in social ease, for themselves or for others; rather, they are concerned with finding the "right way" for people to conduct themselves with one another. When they are more identified with this attitude, they may feel that others do not know what is best for them. With regard to themselves, Social Ones feel that personal needs can be addressed only after more pressing social problems have been faced. This zeal can be hard on their families and intimates, but people are often amazed by the strength of the Social One's convictions and are grateful for the good work that they contribute to the community.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •