Intuitives vs sensors and physical presence

[ConcreteButterfly]

I remember reading somewhere that sensors and intuitives can be distinguished by how they physically feel in interaction, sensors appear to take up more room. Like there is "a lot" of them there. And intuitives, especially Ni doms seem to be almost invisible. And it has nothing to do with their actual weight or body shape, it is just a sense of lightness, like they aren't totally present, or like they are made of a different substance.

Have you experienced this? Do sensors and intuitives come across differently to you in their presence?

[Olimpia]

That was Reinin.

Let us imagine the four-dimensional space-time continuum: the intuitive type are perceived to be compressed in space, but so to say stretched in time, and the sensoring type, on the contrary, are compressed in time, but is more vivid in present. The sensory types occupy much more space. All four types have the same four-dimensional size of space-time. The four-dimensional space-time continuum here is more of a metaphor than a physical reality. The sensoring type is here and now, the person’s energy is "more present." And an intuitive person might be of a large complexion, but he/she is hardly noticeable. The intuitive people occupy less space than the sensoring ones and they are not as efficient in exploring space.
During an experiment this attribute is rather vivid: the eight intuitive people in a room can hardly be noticed, but the eight sensing people fill the whole room and overwhelm others.

I remember a girl in High School could "blend in" so easily into the background, she even managed to read fantasy novels during class while not sitting too much in the back of the room.
She was both EII and E9. I believe the E9 strengthens that natural tendency of Intuitives to "blend in". (Perhaps the same applies to E9 Sensors.)

Sensors do seem to be more physically "present" than Intuitives in general, IMO.
Extroverted Sensing leads usually "fill up" a room the most with their energy. Especially with Inert subtype, it is difficult not to notice them.

[ConcreteButterfly]

[QUOTE=SisOfNight;1104927]That was Reinin.

Yes that's it, thankyou for the quote! I wonder if Se doms are more noticeable than Si doms? Even though both have strong Se, maybe it is equal. And since Reinin mentioned that Intuitives are stretched across time, maybe Ne doms would be just as noticeable across time as Se doms are across space. Weak Ne might mean being "invisible" over time.

[Olimpia]

I wonder if Se doms are more noticeable than Si doms? Even though both have strong Se, maybe it is equal. Even though both have strong Se, maybe it is equal. And since Reinin mentioned that Intuitives are stretched across time, maybe Ne doms would be just as noticeable across time as Se doms are across space.

I would say Se doms are more noticeable than Si doms, simply because their energy moves outward (extroverted direction) opposed to inward (introverted direction).
In that manner, perhaps Ne doms are the most noticeable from all the Intuitives, when it comes to the way they physically take up space. However, that could rather have something to do with their Role Se.
Perhaps this is why my past EII friend was so superbly unnoticeable; she was both an Intuitive and Se PoLR. I could see EII and LII managing to "blend in" energetically the most, especially when E9.

[ConcreteButterfly]

I would say Se doms are more noticeable than Si doms, simply because their energy moves outward (extroverted direction) opposed to inward (introverted direction).
In that manner, perhaps Ne doms are the most noticeable from all the Intuitives, when it comes to the way they physically take up space. However, that could rather have something to do with their Role Se.
Perhaps this is why my past EII friend was so superbly unnoticeable; she was both an Intuitive and Se PoLR. I could see EII and LII managing to "blend in" energetically the most, especially when E9.

I agree, Se role seems to make Ne doms stand out physically, and with LIIs and EIIs both have strong, producing Ni which may explain how they can be so invisible, Ni being the diametric opposite of Se.Not sure about how enneagram plays into it, so can't really comment on that unfortunately.

Also something about the quote strikes me as very interesting, it's like sensors occupy the most space when they feel the most compressed in time. As though they are being attacked by time, to put it in a weird way. Likewise with intuitives, when feeling most compressed in space, because they feel encroached by physical objects, they stretch out the most in time, out waiting the objects.

[carrina]

I would say Se doms are more noticeable than Si doms, simply because their energy moves outward (extroverted direction) opposed to inward (introverted direction).
In that manner, perhaps Ne doms are the most noticeable from all the Intuitives, when it comes to the way they physically take up space. However, that could rather have something to do with their Role Se.
Perhaps this is why my past EII friend was so superbly unnoticeable; she was both an Intuitive and Se PoLR. I could see EII and LII managing to "blend in" energetically the most, especially when E9.

Hey sis, do me a favor. Is there any way you could explain that further. I'm curious what is the noticeable difference between expanding energy and the opposite? Anyone else who wants to comment on this please do

[Olimpia]

Hey sis, do me a favor. Is there any way you could explain that further. I'm curious what is the noticeable difference between expanding energy and the opposite? Anyone else who wants to comment on this please do

When someone has an expanding energy, it seems like they are "reaching out to the world".

Sensors see the world much more clearly than Intuitives; not necessarily literally (when it comes to eye sight), but in certain ways, they do. At least their strength is focused on the material world. Se ego types have that energy of "constantly reaching out", or being on the verge to. Mentally, it is like they constantly go around with a hand reached out, ready to catch any ball that is being thrown at them, or ready to pick up any cup from any counter. With Intuitives, it is like they don't even see the cup or ball (especially for Ni leads, haha).

Perhaps this is why I've sucked at ball sports.

I'd say Si ego types see the ball coming too, but they feel less inclined to catch it. If they don't feel like it for whatever reason, they would just avoid it and step aside. They may reach for the cup and drink what's in it, because they know what it is, and they feel like it would benefit their inner harmony, its particular taste will be very pleasant. The Se type may be drinking from the cup just to have something to do and see what's in it; there are not "fussy" with their objects and senses like Si users tend to be.

So, imagine a room with 4 different people in it.
• Person 1 is reaching out all the time, or has that "ready-go" attitude. Throw a ball at them, they catch it immediately. They would be the Se lead.
• Person 2 seems like they can hardly see, or "have blinds on". Throw a ball at them, and they get hit. They would be the Ni lead.
• Person 3 may look like they are reaching out a lot, like Person 1, based on how curious, but scatterbrained they seem. Throw a ball at them, and they may attempt to catch it, but are more likely to miss it (or get hit like Person 2). You thought they were ready, but they weren't actually. They would be the Ne lead.
• Person 4 has a relaxed attitude and looks like the regular observer of situations. Throw a ball at them, and they may either catch it reluctantly or step aside, so it flies past them. They would be the Si lead.

These people were the "extreme" of each perceiving IE. Those who have a perceiving IE as their Creative function may relate to those people the best if they are the Contact subtype, and the least if they are the Inert subtype. For instance, an ESI-Se will relate to Person 1 rather easily. While ESI-Fi may not as much.

[ConcreteButterfly]

When someone has an expanding energy, it seems like they are "reaching out to the world".

Sensors see the world much more clearly than Intuitives; not necessarily literally (when it comes to eye sight), but in certain ways, they do. At least their strength is focused on the material world. Se ego types have that energy of "constantly reaching out", or being on the verge to. Mentally, it is like they constantly go around with a hand reached out, ready to catch any ball that is being thrown at them, or ready to pick up any cup from any counter. With Intuitives, it is like they don't even see the cup or ball (especially for Ni leads, haha).

Perhaps this is why I've sucked at ball sports.

I'd say Si ego types see the ball coming too, but they feel less inclined to catch it. If they don't feel like it for whatever reason, they would just avoid it and step aside. They may reach for the cup and drink what's in it, because they know what it is, and they feel like it would benefit their inner harmony, its particular taste will be very pleasant. The Se type may be drinking from the cup just to have something to do and see what's in it; there are not "fussy" with their objects and senses like Si users tend to be.

So, imagine a room with 4 different people in it.
Person 1 is reaching out all the time, or has that "ready-go" attitude. Throw a ball at them, they catch it immediately. They would be the Se lead.
Person 2 seems like they can hardly see, or "have blinds on". Throw a ball at them, and they get hit. They would be the Ni lead.
Person 3 may look like they are reaching out a lot, like Person 1, based on how curious, but scatterbrained they seem. Throw a ball at them, and they may attempt to catch it, but are more likely to miss it. You thought they were ready, but they weren't actually. They would be the Ne lead.
Person 4 has a relaxed attitude and looks like the regular observer of situations. Throw a ball at them, and they may either catch it reluctantly or step aside, so it flies past them. They would be the Si lead.

These people were the "extreme" of each perceiving IE. Those who have a perceiving IE as their Creative function may relate to those people the best if they are the Contact subtype, and the least if they are the Inert subtype. For instance, an ESI-Se will relate to Person 1 rather easily. While ESI-Fi may not as much.

This is a great explanation, thankyou sis can I ask something also, why would Si egos not feel like catching the ball? and do Se egos always catch the ball? I think extroverted functions are all kind of reaching out to the world, ready to meet it half way, probably more noticable with Se only because Se deals with the concrete, visible world.

[Olimpia]

This is a great explanation, thankyou sis can I ask something also, why would Si egos not feel like catching the ball? And do Se egos always catch the ball? i think extroverted functions are all kind of reaching out to the world, ready to meet it half way.

Si is particular about sensations, that is what I meant with "fussy". Si tends to prefer sensations to be just "the right way", how they like them best. They internalize sensations, so maybe that is why they develop so distinct preferences; they need to filter them out more than Se types. That's why Si users are more inclined to not catch a ball, for instance when it looks like its impact will be very rough, and the Si type dislikes that. Whereas an Se lead would rather be thrilled about that challenge of catching a rough ball. Likely, because it is another chance to learn something about their own physical capability and the physical property of said ball by doing so.

That's how an Se user is more "open" towards the material world, more "expanding". It is like the Se lead has got his arms open all the time to hug the world, whereas the Si user will only open his arms when he knows he likes that certain oncoming sensation. That's probably why Si is often related to memory; an Si user needs to remember that a sensation was pleasant, so that he can accept it again next time.

[marooned]

i don't know how much stock i put in this. but i imagine the general idea is that sensors are more externally aware of their environment in the 'relevant sensing way' - more physically present. they may seem to claim the space more, and might demonstrate more confidence in "interacting with the space," even if they're new to it. this creates that feeling you might pick up around them, that they are taking up more space (and i've definitely felt this before around certain people).

perhaps with it's more like they seem to acclimatize and soak into the space, or become really "comfortable" in it (at home), or make it to their liking (moving objects or arranging things so the space is "theirs"). whereas with it can seem more like they actually own the space, like there's a huge sphere around them and everything in it is theirs, and if you meet their eyes, there's some sort of almost territorial awareness feeling. with both it's like they are heavier or more dense - they weigh more in the space. and it can feel like they take up the entire room.

the reason i'm not really sure about this is that i don't think it actually applies consistently to everyone. i think some sensors really "take up the space" while others don't. some intuitives can be really confident in "the space," and if they are large people, can seem to, well, literally take up the space. types usually seem more like they're searching for otherworldly interests in the space... although that would apply to me possibly too. i don't expect myself to fall into any patterns about "the space." i'm sure intuitives are more likely to be "spacing out in the space" than sensors. but you know there are some spacy sensors out there too. also some people try to hide in the space... which i might do as well.

one thing that might throw this off too is that a lot of introverts are really reticent, regardless of their particular type, and i think that can make you seem to take up way less space. some extroverts may be more expansive, just because they're really "out there" with their energy. i mean there are just too many factors.

[Sol]

Impressions I use: sensors are concentrated on concrete things near, while intuitives are concentrated on their imagination.

[tejing]

I would say Se doms are more noticeable than Si doms, simply because their energy moves outward (extroverted direction) opposed to inward (introverted direction).
In that manner, perhaps Ne doms are the most noticeable from all the Intuitives, when it comes to the way they physically take up space. However, that could rather have something to do with their Role Se.
Perhaps this is why my past EII friend was so superbly unnoticeable; she was both an Intuitive and Se PoLR. I could see EII and LII managing to "blend in" energetically the most, especially when E9.

I think you may be right. I don't have much perceptual impact on the people around me. It's as though when they see me, for some reason their minds don't rate me as worth any more attention than a piece of furniture. Of course, most of the time I prefer it that way.

[ouronis]

There is this yes. Some types of people naturally occupy the space they are in ways that are expansive while some are nearly invisible and unnoticeable and it comes into play with power dynamics.

[Myst]

That's probably why Si is often related to memory; an Si user needs to remember that a sensation was pleasant, so that he can accept it again next time.

That's MBTI bs actually, the Si vs memory thing, every function/IE needs memory to store data to be able to build on it. Just different things are remembered by each one.

[Beautiful sky]

What impression do you get from my avatars of me? I'm not very self aware and I hardly ever look at myself honestly. I'm not self obsessed, vanity is far from me . I often will leave home without my hair combed and looking unkempt. So in short I can't tell. I just know that because I'm small and soft spoken people often feel like they can push me around. For this reason and because of my natural self I have a small world and like staying home

[Myst]

people often feel like they can push me around.

You do look like it.

A bit like my EII-Fi sister, too.

[darya]

What impression do you get from my avatars of me? I'm not very self aware and I hardly ever look at myself honestly. I'm not self obsessed, vanity is far from me . I often will leave home without my hair combed and looking unkempt. So in short I can't tell. I just know that because I'm small and soft spoken people often feel like they can push me around. For this reason and because of my natural self I have a small world and like staying home

You look cute, timid and well mannered. Similar posture, face expressions and choice of clothes to my EII friend.

[Beautiful sky]

thanks you

[ConcreteButterfly]

On a related note, strong Se is associated with being able to sense how physically organized someone could be, if they were pushed. Does anyone know how this works?

[Myst]

You look cute, timid and well mannered. Similar posture, face expressions and choice of clothes to my EII friend.

Oh yeah @Maritsa's choice of clothes also matches my EII-Fi sister's way of dressing

[Skepsis]

Things I have observed about myself is that when I am in deep thought contemplating something or thinking of a solution to a problem, I am completely oblivious to my surroundings. I would even go as far as to say that I block out sensation and feeling(ethical and emotional concerns).

With that said, after much contemplation, I think introverted sensation best describes how I do process sensory information, with some attention to extroverted sensation. I don't have a very strong physical presence and can feel like I am in the way sometimes or people assert themselves in my space as if I'm not there, but it would not be accurate to say that I don't protect my space at all. I'm very tolerant of people being in my space and usually don't jump to the conclusion that they are trying to dominate my space. I can get irritating if someone stays in my space for a long period of time and it can make me feel smothered. If I get the impression that they take my tolerance for weakness and they use that to dominate or to their advantage, or make me feel smothered, I will put the effort in reestablish my personal space.

My baseline tends to be one of being aware of sensory information around me, such that I can notice a ball coming toward me and either catch it or step out of the way Sometimes, my reactions surprise me and I'm amazed at reflexes I didn't realize I had(like quickly catching an object that starts to fall to the flow or using my leg to break its fall).

Overall though, my sensations are impressionistic as opposed to being engaged.

[Myst]

On a related note, strong Se is associated with being able to sense how physically organized someone could be, if they were pushed. Does anyone know how this works?

What exactly do you mean by "physically organized"?

Do you mean things like how well they focus on stuff that requires awareness in the physical environment? Because I do get that sense easily about people when I observe them.

EDIT: oh you also mention them being pushed, I don't know what you meant then, so yeah elaborate on this expression of "physically organized".

[Myst]

Things I have observed about myself is that when I am in deep thought contemplating something or thinking of a solution to a problem, I am completely oblivious to my surroundings. I would even go as far as to say that I block out sensation and feeling(ethical and emotional concerns).

Ah I hardly ever get that myself. If I do manage to get deep enough for a few seconds, say, in some mathematical problem or the sort of thing that's just like a mathematical problem, then when I reconnect to the basic awareness of my surroundings, I feel weird for a second. I don't think I like that complete disconnect. Most of the time when I'm explicitly thinking, it runs parallel to the basic awareness I always have of "where I am". Though if I'm thinking like that, it also means that I pay less attention to details of the surroundings, I just keep the most relevant ones in my conscious. That in my opinion is related to how much -conscious- bandwidth you have for processing such information and how much that bandwidth is prioritized over others.

With that said, after much contemplation, I think introverted sensation best describes how I do process sensory information, with some attention to extroverted sensation. I don't have a very strong physical presence and can feel like I am in the way sometimes or people assert themselves in my space as if I'm not there, but it would not be accurate to say that I don't protect my space at all. I'm very tolerant of people being in my space and usually don't jump to the conclusion that they are trying to dominate my space. I can get irritating if someone stays in my space for a long period of time and it can make me feel smothered. If I get the impression that they take my tolerance for weakness and they use that to dominate or to their advantage, or make me feel smothered, I will put the effort in reestablish my personal space.

Wow well we differ there, as soon as someone tries to assert themselves in that fashion, I instantly respond.

My baseline tends to be one of being aware of sensory information around me, such that I can notice a ball coming toward me and either catch it or step out of the way Sometimes, my reactions surprise me and I'm amazed at reflexes I didn't realize I had(like quickly catching an object that starts to fall to the flow or using my leg to break its fall).

I've heard many people say similar things about their reflexes, lol. Yeah mine are good too in this way.

My baseline is me being aware of the relevant enough parts of the sensory details in the environment and some sort of readiness along with it.


To OP: I think this is the factor of sensing/intuition conflated with the factor of introversion/extraversion but inumbra already mentioned that.

[Skepsis]

Ah I hardly ever get that myself. If I do manage to get deep enough for a few seconds, say, in some mathematical problem or the sort of thing that's just like a mathematical problem, then when I reconnect to the basic awareness of my surroundings, I feel weird for a second. I don't think I like that complete disconnect. Most of the time when I'm explicitly thinking, it runs parallel to the basic awareness I always have of "where I am". Though if I'm thinking like that, it also means that I pay less attention to details of the surroundings, I just keep the most relevant ones in my conscious. That in my opinion is related to how much -conscious- bandwidth you have for processing such information and how much that bandwidth is prioritized over others.

Yes, I think this is universally characteristic of thinking, that one has to essentially shut down other mental processes to focus on the process of thinking. It likely is different in degree from person to person. I have a tendency to get irritated by interruptions by others when thinking because it caused me to lose thought, although background noise is fine.

Wow well we differ there, as soon as someone tries to assert themselves in that fashion, I instantly respond.

Yes so a difference in an instant and delayed response. Something I find funny is how I respond to "close talkers". You know, the ones that get right up in your face to tell you something and they don't seem to get that they are too close and in my personal space. I tend to allow it momentarily and then slowly back away so as to not offend them. What's funny is that sometimes I find myself in a corner because as I step away from them, they step toward me, lol. They act as if they are completely oblivious to personal space.

[Myst]

Yes, I think this is universally characteristic of thinking, that one has to essentially shut down other mental processes to focus on the process of thinking. It likely is different in degree from person to person. I have a tendency to get irritated by interruptions by others when thinking because it caused me to lose thought, although background noise is fine.

Well yeah I'm sure there are individual differences, like I said I can run it parallel to sensory awareness and that's how I prefer it actually. & I don't get irritated like that, I can pick it up again after the interruption ends.

Yes so a difference in an instant and delayed response. Something I find funny is how I respond to "close talkers". You know, the ones that get right up in your face to tell you something and they don't seem to get that they are too close and in my personal space. I tend to allow it momentarily and then slowly back away so as to not offend them. What's funny is that sometimes I find myself in a corner because as I step away from them, they step toward me, lol. They act as if they are completely oblivious to personal space.

Lol I've seen such people myself but yeah I don't let them corner me like that, I do know they don't have bad intentions but still I just don't.

So for you the factor in your space related response is introversion and Se devaluing more than intuition.

[Skepsis]

So for you the factor in your space related response is introversion and Se devaluing more than intuition.

Yup. Se when needed. I think I tend to be indifferent to Se though, as opposed to devaluing it, although in socionics speak it probably translates to devaluing. I'm aware of it, that other people use it, and that I use it at times myself, but it's not something I oppose or give high priority to.

[Satan]

I remember reading somewhere that sensors and intuitives can be distinguished by how they physically feel in interaction, sensors appear to take up more room. Like there is "a lot" of them there. And intuitives, especially Ni doms seem to be almost invisible. And it has nothing to do with their actual weight or body shape, it is just a sense of lightness, like they aren't totally present, or like they are made of a different substance.

Have you experienced this? Do sensors and intuitives come across differently to you in their presence?

I chatted to this guy a little bit years ago. I talked to him online before ever meeting him - but it was very many years ago - and when meeting him it's like it was hard to actually talk to him, or for him to even seem real -- this happens with very young children sometime too, before they're really used to having conversations... it's like it can be really hard to get normal interactions with them going -- but sometimes if you go off-base you can kind of get things ticking along, or you use someone else they know to facilitate. and he was good at kind of blending in to the background but in a kind of creepy way.

Talking to him online he seemed much more normal though.

Curiously he fell into the "easier to talk to without eye contact" category. And sometimes he could seem pretty normal. (i only met him once I think, and there were other people around too)

Anyway, no-one really seems invisible to me. Some people just seem more significant than others. Some poeple lighter, some people darker, some people more present, some less.

[ConcreteButterfly]

What exactly do you mean by "physically organized"?

Do you mean things like how well they focus on stuff that requires awareness in the physical environment? Because I do get that sense easily about people when I observe them.

EDIT: oh you also mention them being pushed, I don't know what you meant then, so yeah elaborate on this expression of "physically organized".

No you're right, by physical organization I mean being able to concentrate your awareness on objects in the physical environment. The intensity of your focus would relate to strong Se. Taking it a step further would mean occupying the nearby space as those objects. Further still, pushing against them, moving them out of that space (as you move in). This is what is meant by Se being "space-capturing". You have to be physically organized to do this, your whole body has to be attentive to the objects you want moved, and not change directions (which is Ne), and not lose focus because of internal discomfort (Ni,Si).

So anyway, strong Se types seem to sense other people's ability to be physically organized, before they push against them. Maybe this is Ni..?

[Beautiful sky]

No you're right, by physical organization I mean being able to concentrate your awareness on objects in the physical environment. The intensity of your focus would relate to strong Se. Taking it a step further would mean occupying the same space as those objects. Further still, pushing against them, moving them out of that space (as you move in). This is what is meant by Se being "space-capturing". You have to be physically organised to do this, your whole body has to be attentive to the objects you want moved, and not change directions (which is Ne), and not lose focus because of internal discomfort (Ni,Si).

So anyway, strong Se types seem to sense other people's ability to be physically organised. It's like they just feel it, beforehand. Maybe this is Ni..?

My brother, when he moved in with me moved everything everywhere and in his democratic nature didn't feel like he needed to ask. I'm not physical and territorial minded nor do I care or have concern of physical stuff so I didn't care. He just upsets me because he pestered me about eating since I'm such a poor eater. He calls me names like "anorexic" even though I'm not. I never have the heart to take jabs back at him since I'm concerned about hurting his feelings. Yeah I had to call and ask where things were when he moved out. Also he expands into territory unknowingly but bravely. I'm skittish and caution more asking and play it slow.

[End]

When someone has an expanding energy, it seems like they are "reaching out to the world".

Sensors see the world much more clearly than Intuitives; not necessarily literally (when it comes to eye sight), but in certain ways, they do. At least their strength is focused on the material world. Se ego types have that energy of "constantly reaching out", or being on the verge to. Mentally, it is like they constantly go around with a hand reached out, ready to catch any ball that is being thrown at them, or ready to pick up any cup from any counter. With Intuitives, it is like they don't even see the cup or ball (especially for Ni leads, haha).

Perhaps this is why I've sucked at ball sports.

I'd say Si ego types see the ball coming too, but they feel less inclined to catch it. If they don't feel like it for whatever reason, they would just avoid it and step aside. They may reach for the cup and drink what's in it, because they know what it is, and they feel like it would benefit their inner harmony, its particular taste will be very pleasant. The Se type may be drinking from the cup just to have something to do and see what's in it; there are not "fussy" with their objects and senses like Si users tend to be.

So, imagine a room with 4 different people in it.
• Person 1 is reaching out all the time, or has that "ready-go" attitude. Throw a ball at them, they catch it immediately. They would be the Se lead.
• Person 2 seems like they can hardly see, or "have blinds on". Throw a ball at them, and they get hit. They would be the Ni lead.
• Person 3 may look like they are reaching out a lot, like Person 1, based on how curious, but scatterbrained they seem. Throw a ball at them, and they may attempt to catch it, but are more likely to miss it (or get hit like Person 2). You thought they were ready, but they weren't actually. They would be the Ne lead.
• Person 4 has a relaxed attitude and looks like the regular observer of situations. Throw a ball at them, and they may either catch it reluctantly or step aside, so it flies past them. They would be the Si lead.

These people were the "extreme" of each perceiving IE. Those who have a perceiving IE as their Creative function may relate to those people the best if they are the Contact subtype, and the least if they are the Inert subtype. For instance, an ESI-Se will relate to Person 1 rather easily. While ESI-Fi may not as much.

Good explanation but I also think it'd depend on how well their other functions are developed. For example, while they don't like using it much doms have as a role function and do use it on occasion. If they've developed it enough they'll be able to catch or dodge but will, likewise, see the activity as an annoyance. Damn ball, I was trying to forecast what the rest of my week is gonna look like! Well, now that that's out of the way back to forecasting.

You also mention not even seeing the ball. Yeah, I have that problem too. Sometimes I'll be looking for something and find it 10 minutes later. It was on that desk I glanced over 3 times during my search and it wasn't even hidden under anything. God that's embarrassing but it happens sometimes .

[Myst]

No you're right, by physical organization I mean being able to concentrate your awareness on objects in the physical environment. The intensity of your focus would relate to strong Se. Taking it a step further would mean occupying the nearby space as those objects. Further still, pushing against them, moving them out of that space (as you move in). This is what is meant by Se being "space-capturing". You have to be physically organized to do this, your whole body has to be attentive to the objects you want moved, and not change directions (which is Ne), and not lose focus because of internal discomfort (Ni,Si). So anyway, strong Se types seem to sense other people's ability to be physically organized, before they push against them. Maybe this is Ni..?

Eh to push someone you need a bit more than just seeing how well they are focused. By just looking I can get a general image of how present someone is, how submissive they seem, but often I will need more information and interaction gives me that, to see how far I can go with the person, what I can get them to do and how easily and what I need for it to happen. It is not magically knowing everything before you do anything, lol.

[Beautiful sky]

Eh to push someone you need a bit more than just seeing how well they are focused. By just looking I can get a general image of how present someone is, how submissive they seem, but often I will need more information and interaction gives me that, to see how far I can go with the person, what I can get them to do and how easily and what I need for it to happen. It is not magically knowing everything before you do anything, lol.

I'm not present. I'm in the future

[Olimpia]

I'm not present. I'm in the future

Me too.