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Thread: Beta Duality

  1. #121
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    Default Estp and INFP

    <3
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Jake-lady-rainicorn-adventure-time--large-msg-129659005694.jpg


    "Oh, baby. I love you because you’re an idiot. You make me feel like a genius."
    — Lady Rainicorn to Jake, Adventure Time

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Would you be happier if I said "you are no stereotypical alpha NT", instead?
    I actually would lol, jeez .

    Not because of the fact that I think I enter the alpha's NT band or not, but because it'd actually be true. Moreover, the assumption of the "stereotypical alpha" might be something different to you than it is to me but at least I think that to me, this assumption is true. Of course, the assumption is mine, not yours, etc. etc..




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    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    I actually would lol, jeez .

    Not because of the fact that I think I enter the alpha's NT band or not, but because it'd actually be true. Moreover, the assumption of the "stereotypical alpha" might be something different to you than it is to me but at least I think that to me, this assumption is true. Of course, the assumption is mine, not yours, etc. etc..
    Alright then that's what I said ok?

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    Clear Victim-Aggressor dynamic here.
    (Louis, IEI. Lestat, SLE.)


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  10. #130
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    SLE & IEI









     



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    Love is...

    Maksim Martsinkevich (bald) - ISTJ and Eduard Bagirov - ENFJ
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  13. #133
    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    I really like this one. Looks EIE female and LSI male to me. EDIT: Actually looks more like SLE female and IEI male - either or ... Extra girl, Intro boy


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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    I really like this one. Looks EIE female and LSI male to me. EDIT: Actually looks more like SLE female and IEI male - either or ... Extra girl, Intro boy
    I've also thought at first this was a female EIE - male LSI combination, but with a bit of imagination you can almost see any Beta Duality combination with the two of them.

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    I've also thought at first this was a female EIE - male LSI combination, but with a bit of imagination you can almost see any Beta Duality combination with the two of them.
    Heheh yes.. I just immediately saw the female and really felt akin to her pose, look, etc. Actually this looks a lot like how me and IEI male look together


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  17. #137
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    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     




  18. #138
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    new season. <3

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     




  19. #139
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    some beta couple

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    Quote Originally Posted by TJay View Post


    some beta couple







    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     




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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    Clear Victim-Aggressor dynamic here.
    (Louis, IEI. Lestat, SLE.)

    I always thought Lestat seemed EIE or LIE.
    someday the grapes will be wine
    and someday you will be mine


    EII-Ne 2w3 - 9w1 - 7w8 so/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emmym View Post
    I always thought Lestat seemed EIE or LIE.
    You thought you saw Se HA in Lestat, hm?
    It is more likely he is exhibiting Fe HA, IMO (hence your impression of him being EIE).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emmym View Post
    I always thought Lestat seemed EIE or LIE.
    Lestat is EIE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    Lestat is EIE.
    Why?

    I still think he's rather SLE, haha.


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    It has been a while since I read them, but in the books, Lestat does not seem SLE. He even seems a bit 4ish, at times. EIE would not be a bad typing. I would have to use more imagination to see him as an exemplar of SLE though.

    Having been illiterate as a human, after becoming a vampire Lestat learned how to read first in French and then in English, developing a great love of literature that made him quite the academic and a fondness for colloquialisms. He chooses to write his novels in English and notes that despite his French accent he speaks English "like a cross between a boatman and Sam Spade". As an academic, Lestat became a creature of great philosophical thinking, proposing the deep questions of ‘are my actions good or bad?’, ‘what makes a person happy?’, ‘Is there a God?’ and ‘Am I in His plan?’.



    Lestat.

    It can be argued that Lestat is far from being a monster as he was painted in Interview with the Vampire. In his autobiographyThe Vampire Lestat he is quick to defend his behaviour, repeatedly attempting to convince people that he is hardly the monster previous narrators have portrayed him to be. In much of the book and in The Queen of the Damned, he is presented as a fun-loving hero who even gallantly leads the charge against the vampire queen Akasha.

    Lestat is a creature capable of love, being first portrayed in the series as a bisexual who is attracted to whoever interests him. He spent most of his early experiences with male lovers and spending his time in the company of men, because as he admits men in the past centuries were more interesting than women and secondly he is frightened of women, finding them extremely distracting. Over time Lestat developed a greater love for humanity than ever before despite his savage relationship with mankind, and so viewed his life as "the Savage Garden", filled with beauty and death.

    Lestat is capable of showing concern for the welfare of others, exhibiting a strong altruistic nature at several stages in the series, for instance, upon being made a vampire, he sent large gifts to his family and friends, purchased the theatre where he once worked and settled the debts of his old manager, Renaud. Later, following the murder of his brothers and family in the French Revolution, Lestat stepped forward to care for his ailing father, the only surviving member of his family, despite their hate filled relationship. Lestat also displays a moral inclination, frequently hunting evildoers instead of feeding from innocent victims, although he does not always abide by this rule.
    http://vampirechronicles.wikia.com/w...t_de_Lioncourt

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     




  26. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    Why?

    I still think he's rather SLE, haha.
    I think you're confusing his boldness with Se lead and narcissism with Fe HA. Any vain person can be seen as having Fe HA. That's why hidden agendas of types are largely tampered with motivations coming from one's E-type. I think Ni-creatives are sometimes mistyped for SLE for exactly this reason - like all the ESTP typings of Patrick Bateman from American Psycho who's a clear case of LIE.

    Lestat is almost a parody of EIE : ). (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lestat_de_Lioncourt)

    Because of his boldness, enthusiasm, and defiance, Lestat's seniors refer to him affectionately as "The Brat Prince", a title of which he is very fond. He is very vain and concerned with fashion, and will pause mid-narrative to remind the reader what he is wearing. He enjoys performing on stage, which he does as both a mortal actor in Paris, France and a vampire in his rock band called The Vampire Lestat, that he forms with a group of humans in the 1980s.

    Lestat is also fond of music; he sings and plays the piano and violin. Although he is illiterate as a mortal man, he learns to read and loves literature as a vampire. In one period of his life, he becomes a hermit and spends every night holed up at home, reading.

    The first language that Lestat learns is French, although he "writes" his novels in English. In The Vampire Lestat, he notes that despite his French accent, he speaks English "like a cross between a boatman and Sam Spade" and is fond of slang.

    Throughout his long life, Lestat is plagued by common philosophical questions, such as "Are my actions good or bad?", "Is there a God?", "Am I in His plan?", "What happens after death?", and "What makes a person happy?" He finds himself more in love with humanity than ever before, despite his relationship with mankind being savage. For a while, he sees life as "the Savage Garden," filled with beauty and death.

    Lestat exhibits a strong altruistic nature at several points in the series. For instance, after he first becomes a vampire, he sends large gifts to his family and friends, purchases the theatre where he once worked, and settles the debts of his old manager, Lestat also frequently hunts evildoers instead of feeding from innocent victims, although he does not always abide by this rule.

    As a vampire, Lestat's abilities include telepathy, mind reading, superhuman physical attributes, and rapid healing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    You thought you saw Se HA in Lestat, hm?
    It is more likely he is exhibiting Fe HA, IMO (hence your impression of him being EIE).
    INFps typing fictional characters:

    insightful ESFj - INFp
    INTj who never talks - INFp
    sexy ISFp - INFp
    depressed ENTp - INFp
    interesting ISTj - INFp
    misunderstood ESTp - INFp
    awkward ENFj - INFp
    popular INFj - INFp
    ENFp who happens to be asleep atm - INFp
    paranoid ESTj - INFp
    redeemable ISTp - INFp
    romantic INTp - INFp
    ISFj with a heart of gold - INFp
    ESFp who loves life - stupid INFp
    ENTj - ESTp

    someday the grapes will be wine
    and someday you will be mine


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    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    Lestat is EIE.
    Thanks, that's sort of what I gathered. I've read the graphic novel (which is really pretty) and seen the movie, and in the movie I thought the characters seemed LII and LIE (the Antonio Banderas guy might have been SLE though). I only read a little bit of the books but Lestat read as very EIE to me in that, lol.
    someday the grapes will be wine
    and someday you will be mine


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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post


    Just because someone has a Victim Romance Style does not mean they want to be truly abused...
    Speak for yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    I think you're confusing his boldness with Se lead and narcissism with Fe HA. Any vain person can be seen as having Fe HA. That's why hidden agendas of types are largely tampered with motivations coming from one's E-type. I think Ni-creatives are sometimes mistyped for SLE for exactly this reason - like all the ESTP typings of Patrick Bateman from American Psycho who's a clear case of LIE.

    Lestat is almost a parody of EIE : ). (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lestat_de_Lioncourt)

    Because of his boldness, enthusiasm, and defiance, Lestat's seniors refer to him affectionately as "The Brat Prince", a title of which he is very fond. He is very vain and concerned with fashion, and will pause mid-narrative to remind the reader what he is wearing. He enjoys performing on stage, which he does as both a mortal actor in Paris, France and a vampire in his rock band called The Vampire Lestat, that he forms with a group of humans in the 1980s.

    Lestat is also fond of music; he sings and plays the piano and violin. Although he is illiterate as a mortal man, he learns to read and loves literature as a vampire. In one period of his life, he becomes a hermit and spends every night holed up at home, reading.

    The first language that Lestat learns is French, although he "writes" his novels in English. In The Vampire Lestat, he notes that despite his French accent, he speaks English "like a cross between a boatman and Sam Spade" and is fond of slang.

    Throughout his long life, Lestat is plagued by common philosophical questions, such as "Are my actions good or bad?", "Is there a God?", "Am I in His plan?", "What happens after death?", and "What makes a person happy?" He finds himself more in love with humanity than ever before, despite his relationship with mankind being savage. For a while, he sees life as "the Savage Garden," filled with beauty and death.

    Lestat exhibits a strong altruistic nature at several points in the series. For instance, after he first becomes a vampire, he sends large gifts to his family and friends, purchases the theatre where he once worked, and settles the debts of his old manager, Lestat also frequently hunts evildoers instead of feeding from innocent victims, although he does not always abide by this rule.

    As a vampire, Lestat's abilities include telepathy, mind reading, superhuman physical attributes, and rapid healing.
    I still don't see how all of that could not simply be the result of an SLE trying to emulate his Dual.

    I have read the first two novels and watched the two movies, just as a disclaimer.

    Let's keep in mind Lestat is a Vampire with supernatural abilities; in this manner, he should more easily be able to develop himself and his functions to the degree he can seem like his dual or activator. (Besides, after a long time of not being around one's dual-seeking Club, most people start looking into that specific Club's spheres. SLEs can indeed develop an appreciation for the arts and spirituality, it just takes them longer.)

    The thing is, his main motivation was "to be loved", Fe HA. (This makes him look more EIE, too.)
    This is partly due to him being SX/SP, but also due to his HA: that he continuously seeks out people to feel loved, to have someone at his side and feel less alone in the face of immortality.

    While he may seem like a lonely soul overall (but what vampire doesn't in Anne Rice's novels), he is still not a "Victim" about it. There is something tragic about him, but that applies to all Vampires in the story; the way he deals with it, though, is rather Se ego. Opposed to Louis, he is not hesitant to use force and aggression, nor is he afraid to "get his hands dirty", kill innocent victims and feed on them (Louis on the other hand refused to drink human blood for a long time, and rather fed of rats, which Lestat found laughable). In that manner, Lestat shows a clear case of Fi PoLR. Here is another example of his Fi PoLR – "Lestat and Louis "adopt" a dying orphan named Claudia in 1795. Lestat turns her into a vampire in order to tie Louis to him." He had no remorse or ethical/moral worries about turning Claudia into a vampire, who by normal standards in the Vampire world was considered way too young to be turned into one. Lestat totally disregarded this moral dilemma and rule, while Louis kept feeling conflicted over it, especially when Claudia was finally killed.

    Nevertheless, Lestat has a heart for his people, in an Fe HA kind of way. This action was pretty SLE: "The townspeople of Lestat's village request his help with a pack of wolves that are terrorizing the town. He rides into the mountains and kills the entire pack of eight, losing his horse, dogs, and nearly his own life in the process." This kind of forceful and aggressive sacrifice can be said to be typical of many SLEs. As a side note, he did this when he was still human and not equipped with supernatural abilities and strength.

    It is true that Lestat can seem very EIE in certain ways; again, I attribute this mostly to the fact Anne Rice depicts a very romanticized view of her vampires, which makes almost every vampire of hers seem rather NF.

    Regardless, I find Lestat not truly being NF, and actually possessing Fi PoLR. This comes out the clearest in comparison to Louis, who was very obviously an NF himself. All the moral issues Louis would ponder over Lestat totally did not care for at the end of the day (or night). Lestat was usually rather looking out for the next exciting adventure, in a very EP temperament kind of way.

    I see how Lestat is likely 3w4 Sx/Sp – a combination that is not common for a lot of SLE descriptions, given they are mostly tailored towards E8s.

    Still, I've never perceived Lestat as a "Victim" type, nor being that similar to Louis; the novel and movies have always tried to juxtapose their personalities, show how different they are; but how they loved each other and fit well together despite of all their first-layer differences. (This is the Duality dynamic in a nutshell, in my view.)

    At last, Lestat's philosophical questions were Ni indeed, but rather Ni-seeking. Louis was thinking about those questions himself, but meanwhile had a much more sophisticated grasp on their implications and answers. Lestat, on the other hand, was mesmerized by Louis' depth at such an early time of his turning, given it took Lestat much longer to arrive at those quandaries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hatesyardwork View Post
    Speak for yourself.
    Hm?
    You mean, I should say: I AM A VICTIM TYPE BUT DO NOT WANT TO BE ACTUALLY ABUSED. THANKS.


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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    You mean, I should say: I AM A VICTIM TYPE BUT DO NOT WANT TO BE ACTUALLY ABUSED.
    In socionics "victim" means wish to be protected and controlled, not be abused.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Whats with all these white knight defenders??? Where is the romance? Where is the no I don't want it right now, not in front if everybody, why are you showing off, this isnt the right place and right time? Yes I want to, no stop it leave me alone, dont make me laugh right now.. Ok lets do it, you cant tame me even if you try... Dont try.... (Please try).

    Bunch of bare chested women with some kronk with a sword is not victim aggressor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    Whats with all these white knight defenders??? Where is the romance? Where is the no I don't want it right now, not in front if everybody, why are you showing off, this isnt the right place and right time? Yes I want to, no stop it leave me alone, dont make me laugh right now.. Ok lets do it, you cant tame me even if you try... Dont try.... (Please try).

    Bunch of bare chested women with some kronk with a sword is not victim aggressor.
    There is no romance. It is a time for war, and not love. People don't get the luxuries of frolicing in the fields.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Satan View Post
    There is no romance. It is a time for war, and not love. People don't get the luxuries of frolicing in the fields.
    Meanwhile, back in reality.... I would be hard pressed, better yet impossible to convince there is no romance, nor love, nor a frolick in a field maybe even leading up to and including a romp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    Whats with all these white knight defenders??? Where is the romance? Where is the no I don't want it right now, not in front if everybody, why are you showing off, this isnt the right place and right time? Yes I want to, no stop it leave me alone, dont make me laugh right now.. Ok lets do it, you cant tame me even if you try... Dont try.... (Please try).

    Bunch of bare chested women with some kronk with a sword is not victim aggressor.


    I did post something like that right here. I happened to come upon that scene while looking for something else and thought it was good for the thread. I have not typed the characters since I prefer to immerse myself in shows/movies without analyzing the types. When I am not on the forum socionics does not cross my mind much so what I post in threads like this are impressions in the moment and I probably have a browser open at the time. I will stay alert.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     




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    The thing is, most "romantic" IEI-SLE interactions are too NSFW, so...

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    Not implying they are actually Duals in the movie; just going by the "vibe" in the picture.
    I've only seen the beginning scene of this movie, so I could only tell in that short time frame that Ryan Gosling plays a Beta ST in it.
    Like... in most movies where he's acting well, haha.
    Last edited by Olimpia; 10-25-2015 at 10:54 PM.

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