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Thread: Beta Duality

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    This could be a female LSI - male EIE example.



    Homecoming by OmeN2501

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    i'm pretty sure Luminara Unduli is EII. cool pic though

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    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    i'm pretty sure Luminara Unduli is EII. cool pic though
    Who is Luminara, haha.
    I don't know who the people are supposed to be in the pic. I was just going by the impression/ "vibe"...
    Last edited by Olimpia; 10-04-2015 at 07:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    Who is Luminara, haha.
    I don't know who the people are supposed to be in the pic. I was just going by the impression/ "vibe"...
    haha

    the "healing" character in that pic is from Star Wars - she's a Jedi, and appears to be holding a Clone trooper in the pic. even though she's not Beta, it's cool that you recognized her NF vibe, even without knowing who she is.

    /Star Wars nerding out

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    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    haha

    the "healing" character in that pic is from Star Wars - she's a Jedi, and appears to be holding a Clone trooper in the pic. even though she's not Beta, it's cool that you recognized her NF vibe, even without knowing who she is.

    /Star Wars nerding out
    Ohhhh!
    I've thought you were referring to the other pic.

    I knew that one was from Star Wars, but yeah... I did not know who she exactly was herself, haha.

    I find IEI women are often being associated with healing powers, somehow. I could see IEIs healing their Duals with their minds, if that makes sense...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pink View Post







    I looked at these a few times and for some reason I find this deeply disturbing and confining. I think it triggered something in me and I am trying to work out what. I don't know the story behind it but it creeps me out in a similar way pedophiles creep me out.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     




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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post



    I looked at these a few times and for some reason I find this deeply disturbing and confining. I think it triggered something in me and I am trying to work out what. I don't know the story behind it but it creeps me out in a similar way pedophiles creep me out.
    I think I get what you mean.
    You sense there is a lack of love and respect on the guy's side. He seems to be a heartless abuser. (Btw, there is also a lack of Fe warmth/valuing... perhaps he is actually an Fi valuing introvert. But that is besides the point.)

    Anyways, if you compare those manga pics with the other one I've shown earlier, there is quite a stark contrast. Both guys say "You are mine", but in my example it seems more loving somehow, whereas with that other guy it seems cruel – the girl looks devastated...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    I find IEI women are often being associated with healing powers, somehow. I could see IEIs healing their Duals with their minds, if that makes sense...
    yeah, @BulletsAndDoves is always talking about IEI healers too. in another thread recently, another IEI poster was mentioning how SLEs (and SEEs) just seem to feel better in the presence of the IEI (or ILI), even if the Ni type doesn't feel like they're actually doing that much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    yeah, @BulletsAndDoves is always talking about IEI healers too. in another thread recently, another IEI poster was mentioning how SLEs (and SEEs) just seem to feel better in the presence of the IEI (or ILI), even if the Ni type doesn't feel like they're actually doing that much.
    Yes. That reminds me of how my SEE sister just wants me to be in the same room as her. She's told me it gives her energy.
    I am not even doing anything, I don't even have to talk to her, haha. I've asked her "Can I just hang out here and not say a word?" She: "Sure. " Haha.
    It is like Ni is recharging an Se lead's inner batteries...

    But it goes both ways. I find myself just going into the same room she's in, for no particular reason. And I end up sitting and talking with her. Just "basking in her (Se) presence".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I looked at these a few times and for some reason I find this deeply disturbing and confining. I think it triggered something in me and I am trying to work out what. I don't know the story behind it but it creeps me out in a similar way pedophiles creep me out.
    agree that it's disturbing. this is because it's depicting some kind of abusive situation - i would not associate it with Beta duality or Victim-Aggressor interactions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    agree that it's disturbing. this is because it's depicting some kind of abusive situation - i would not associate it with Beta duality or Victim-Aggressor interactions.
    To Childlikes and Caretakers, normal Victim-Aggressor interactions can look abusive.
    Being a Victim myself, I have very fine antennae when it comes to that kind of stuff. I can sense when a situation is natural Victim-Aggressor, or rather Abuser-Abused...

    Just because someone has a Victim Romance Style does not mean they want to be truly abused...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    I get what you mean.
    You sense there is a lack of love and respect on the guy's side. He seems to be a heartless abuser. There is also a lack of Fe warmth... perhaps he is actually an Fi valuing introvert.
    Anyways, if you compare those manga pics with the other one I've shown earlier, there is quite a stark contrast. Both guys say "You are mine", but in my example it seems more loving somehow, whereas with that other guy it seems cruel – the girl looks devastated...
    Yes, it is conveys "victim" in a very literal sense. Even though this quote is about S&M I think it is insightful into the "victim" romance style as I experience it. I am not into S&M but I understand the mindset maybe but in the lightest sense. I would never want humiliation or real pain.

    "The submissive obeys only because she chooses to. There is nothing compelling her obedience except her resolve. The submissive is, therefore, empowering the dominant by her decision. We call a consensual empowerment of the dominant by the submissive a power exchange. Just as she gave her consent, she can take it away at any time. Power in SM flows from the bottom up."


    - Philip Miller and Molly Devon, http://bit.ly/ScrewTheRosesSendMeTheThorns

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     




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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    Who is Luminara, haha.
    I don't know who the people are supposed to be in the pic. I was just going by the impression/ "vibe"...
    oops i was wrong, the character is probably Barriss Offee (Luminara's apprentice). they look similar and might be similar types, but i'm not sure about Barriss' type. anyway

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Yes, it is conveys "victim" in a very literal sense. Even though this quote is about S&M I think it is insightful into the "victim" romance style as I experience it. I am not into S&M but I understand the mindset maybe but in the lightest sense. I would never want humiliation or real pain.

    "The submissive obeys only because she chooses to. There is nothing compelling her obedience except her resolve. The submissive is, therefore, empowering the dominant by her decision. We call a consensual empowerment of the dominant by the submissive a power exchange. Just as she gave her consent, she can take it away at any time. Power in SM flows from the bottom up."


    - Philip Miller and Molly Devon, http://bit.ly/ScrewTheRosesSendMeTheThorns
    Interesting quote.

    I make a very simple distinction: If both people in the interaction have equal amounts of power, in terms of what can and may be done to the other etc., then it is consensual and a natural, playful Victim-Aggressor interaction. However, if there is one crass imbalance, in that the "dominant" (abuser) has got all the power, there is something wrong – and it is an Abuser-Abused interaction.

    By that standard, I would not even say the consenting submissive is empowering the dominant. Rather, it is an equal power exchange. Though it is true that the submissive/Victim gives out some kind of implicit "allowance" of being handled roughly, indicating they are enjoying and craving it. The term "Victim" can be misleading in that regard, given the Victim actually enjoys being handled roughly, strongly – they like feeling the other's power.

    Whereas with an abused Victim, they cannot do anything against the other's power, and their power actually hurts them and makes them feel bad, and used.

    In short: Victim-Aggressor interaction is mutually beneficial. Abuser-Abused, isn't.

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    Obvious male SLE – female IEI pairing, again.


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    This looks like a fun example of male LSI(-Se) – female EIE romance to me, haha!


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    I'm trying to look for images

    this is Se/Ni the movie is "Somewhere in time" he agonizes the image or love of her and seeks her somewhere in past time



    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     




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    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     




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    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     




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    this thread makes me cringe by the lack of actual facts.
    Just to be boring: written socionics' theory is already a bit blurry and hard as fck to get someone's type right considering it's how ppl comprehend the world and themselves in the world. It can lead to certain behaviours, but afaik it's not a golden rule to say that if someone act or dress a certain way then he's this type 100%. By this simple thought, pictures about people have no significance over some peeps type, it shows how they dress, and if you're some crazy psyche you can approximately deduce what their behaviour is (and that's a big motherfucker if here).

    So, how I see it, it's some bunch of people fantasizing about some romance they could have had with someone and how that'd have made them feel.

    I'm not saying that everything you've posted is wrong (i actually don't know), sometimes it just seems like you pulled it out of your ass from a previous feeling or desire you've experienced or have wanted to experience.




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    Hopefully people are not going to attempt to type themselves or others based on a thread like this.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     




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    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    this thread makes me cringe by the lack of actual facts.
    Te valuing, much? Wrong thread for that, haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Hopefully people are not going to attempt to type themselves or others based on a thread like this.
    Exactly, this is no typing thread, hahaha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Hopefully people are not going to attempt to type themselves or others based on a thread like this.
    It's not that, it's just it seems wrong to put a pic and say "beta duality", it's like I spin a 8 (4 if quadra dual) faced coin and hope it gets the right duality, it doesn't make sens.

    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight
    Te valuing, much? Wrong thread for that, haha.
    Not at all, it's just not right lol, doesn't it hurt your brain to make unverified assumptions with confidence?
    Last edited by Mega; 10-05-2015 at 12:25 PM. Reason: Math




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    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    It's not that, it's just it seems wrong to put a pic and say "beta duality", it's like I spin a 16 (8 if beta dual) faced coin and hope it gets the right duality, it doesn't make sens.


    Not at all, it's just not right lol, doesn't it hurt your brain to make unverified assumptions with confidence?
    I don't really see a problem with this thread. It is like the other ones on the instinctual variants.
    Some posts will be very off, some will be very accurate. We are sharing ideas and discussing them. That's basically how it goes.

    And I am actually seeing differences between the Duality Quadra threads. If it was true and everyone just posted their personal desires in them, the threads would all look the same.
    But they don't. They seem to develop specific trends. I believe with enough good contributions, the overall idea of the threads will be mostly accurate.
    Last edited by Olimpia; 10-05-2015 at 03:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    I don't really see a problem with this thread. It is like the other ones on the instinctual variants.
    Some posts will be very off, some will be very accurate. We are sharing ideas and discussing them. That's basically how it goes.

    And I am actually seeing differences between the Duality Quadra threads. If it was true and everyone would just post their personal desires in them, the threads would all look the same.
    But they don't. They seem to develop specific trends. I believe with enough good contributions, the overall idea of the threads will be mostly accurate.
    With the underlying assumption that the images posted first had the right "stereotyped" idea of the quadra. Which has the underlying assumption that each duality has general stereotyped vibe.
    IMO, the duality images have more to do with fucking enneagrams (because it relate to real world stuff and how you act in your world) than fucking socionics.

    Funny thing is that Augusta created socionics in the first place because she thought there was something somewhere that had a correlation with social types, for exemple the nerd, the hardworker, and so on. For that she used IM that describes how you understand the world and how you understand how you fit in that world. That's a big ass fucking assumption to begin a fucking theory on, IMO.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    IMO, the duality images have more to do with fucking enneagrams (because it relate to real world stuff and how you act in your world) than fucking socionics.

    Funny thing is that Augusta created socionics in the first place because she thought there was something somewhere that had a correlation with social types, for exemple the nerd, the hardworker, and so on. For that she used IM that describes how you understand the world and how you understand how you fit in that world. That's a big ass fucking assumption to begin a fucking theory on, IMO.
    So... why exactly are you a member of a Socionics forum?

    P.S: I have seen the Romance Style apply to each Socionics type across Enneagram types. No matter what the IEI's Enneagram type was, they were still a Victim Romance Style deep down. Etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    So... why exactly are you a member of a Socionics forum?
    Don't ask lol, to pass time I suppose, and sometimes the forum is fun (but still, it's a good question to ask yourself)

    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    P.S: I have seen the Romance Style apply to each Socionics type across Enneagram types. No matter what the IEI's Enneagram type was, they were still a Victim Romance Style deep down. Etc.
    That's weird man. Fuck that shit man. It seems so much pulled out from someone's ass (the whole personality theory stuff) that it seems crazy to have some truth somewhere.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    That's weird man. Fuck that shit man. It seems so much pulled out from someone's ass (the whole personality theory stuff) that it seems crazy to have some truth somewhere.
    Again – kind of weird you still bother with Typology and this forum and all that.
    Haha. Yeah, it seems crazy, but in my experience the Romance Styles thing is one of the things that is surprisingly true.

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    IEI E4 girl with SLE E7 guy.





    Last edited by Olimpia; 10-05-2015 at 06:16 PM.

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    @Mega & @SisOfNight you had an interesting discussion there

    I see Mega's point but as you said written description isn't easy and don't forget that duality is an interaction and describing interactions is harder than describing type since you'll either make it abstract and harder to relate to real life or you will give a written example which doesn't capture the non-verbal clues in the interaction
    So I think using pics to fill the gap is really helpful (true some will get it wrong, but it shows that they didn't understand the written description so others with better understanding can help and explain it better)
    and since it is an interaction as I said, I am afraid to say that I agree with @Sol that videos are the best way to show it < but personally I won't go search for videos that shows duality

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    For those arguing whether these images are accurate or not, I don't think that is really the point of this thread. It seems to be more about impressions. At the very least, it's interesting to see what others think these dual relationships might be like in a visual way. It's best just see them as opinions and speculation and not as hard facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    this thread makes me cringe by the lack of actual facts.
    Just to be boring: written socionics' theory is already a bit blurry and hard as fck to get someone's type right considering it's how ppl comprehend the world and themselves in the world. It can lead to certain behaviours, but afaik it's not a golden rule to say that if someone act or dress a certain way then he's this type 100%. By this simple thought, pictures about people have no significance over some peeps type, it shows how they dress, and if you're some crazy psyche you can approximately deduce what their behaviour is (and that's a big motherfucker if here).

    So, how I see it, it's some bunch of people fantasizing about some romance they could have had with someone and how that'd have made them feel.

    I'm not saying that everything you've posted is wrong (i actually don't know), sometimes it just seems like you pulled it out of your ass from a previous feeling or desire you've experienced or have wanted to experience.
    You are making non-factual assumptions yourself about the motives of people posting here


    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    With the underlying assumption that the images posted first had the right "stereotyped" idea of the quadra. Which has the underlying assumption that each duality has general stereotyped vibe.
    IMO, the duality images have more to do with fucking enneagrams (because it relate to real world stuff and how you act in your world) than fucking socionics.

    Funny thing is that Augusta created socionics in the first place because she thought there was something somewhere that had a correlation with social types, for exemple the nerd, the hardworker, and so on. For that she used IM that describes how you understand the world and how you understand how you fit in that world. That's a big ass fucking assumption to begin a fucking theory on, IMO.
    You're no Alpha NT for sure lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    You are making non-factual assumptions yourself about the motives of people posting here
    If I didn't write that line I'm unsure I'd have gotten an answer to my post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    You're no Alpha NT for sure lol
    IIRC, I said it had no relation whatsoever with Socionics. Moreover, why is that so?




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    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    If I didn't write that line I'm unsure I'd have gotten an answer to my post.
    Lol so the purpose was provocation?


    IIRC, I said it had no relation whatsoever with Socionics. Moreover, why is that so?
    Why not alpha NT? They are the ones who make such hypotheses that are pretty much speculative assumptions

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Lol so the purpose was provocation?
    To make someone justify something I asked a question about, or at least provoke a critical thinking process about what the person had written.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Why not alpha NT? They are the ones who make such hypotheses that are pretty much speculative assumptions
    If that fact rule out anyone from being alpha NT, why not. However, I think it doesn't (that is an assumption too, I have no way to prove that what you said is true and you have no way to prove it either, it's a sophism)




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    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    To make someone justify something I asked a question about, or at least provoke a critical thinking process about what the person had written.
    I see


    If that fact rule out anyone from being alpha NT, why not. However, I think it doesn't (that is an assumption too, I have no way to prove that what you said is true and you have no way to prove it either, it's a sophism)
    Would you be happier if I said "you are no stereotypical alpha NT", instead?

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