Ti Role vs Ne Role

[Phantom]

Wondering if I could be an ESI-Se instead. What do you infer from the following?

One thing about myself I've noticed is the effort I make into formulating plans and schedules. I feel comfortable when I do this. When I wake up and know what I'm going to do throughout the day. Basically, I idealize efficiency. But I never really follow the very plans and schedules I make for myself. I feel great when I get shit done and accomplish stuff, when I feel like I have my life all figured out. Ultimately, I just do what gives me the most enjoyment and go with the flow, no matter how many plans I make. I remember on the last day of summer vacations, I was making an extremely detailed schedule because I wanted to improve my academic performance. I was particularly enthusiastic because of the whole "new beginning" thing. The next day, I "wasted" the whole day watching videos on YouTube. I just don't consider it a waste of time because I'm having fun. In life, I should either be having fun or doing something productive.

When I talked about bad outcomes, I was basically referring to how if I put off doing something, at the last hour it can come back to bite me. For example, preparing for an exam. In the morning, I don't feel like studying so I decide to study in the afternoon. In the afternoon, I try to convince myself that it won't harm to study, say, after lunch or something. After lunch, I persuade myself that it would be sufficient for me to study for only two hours or so. And so on. By the time it's time for me to sleep, I'm freaking out and cursing myself. That's the bad outcome. My tendency to prioritize the enjoyment of the immediate present jeopardizes my future. It's characteristic of me to impulsively do something which I eventually regret.

I've observed that if I'm on a trip with my family, I want to know every detail of what it is we're going to do. I don't like surprises and unexpected events. I want to know exactly what it is I'm going to expect. I don't pursue new experience for the sake of it. I'm not going to try something just to see if I like it. I get anxious when I'm told to improvise or suddenly do something on the spot. I hate uncertainty. I've noticed that I tend to dread situations I have no experience in, even if it's as simple as visiting some place. If I ask someone a question, I want him to answer in certain or specific terms.

How do you differentiate Ti role and Ne role? Or Ne polr and Ti polr?

[Simo]

Wondering if I could be an ESI-Se instead. What do you infer from the following?

How do you differentiate Ti role and Ne role? Or Ne polr and Ti polr?

ESI-Se instead of what?

Actually I am not expert in typing and personally I prefer using reinin since it seems more objective and easier differentiate
yet if you make a mistake it can give you a completely wrong type (that's why some people don't like to use it), so don't take my reasoning for granted

about your first point in not following your plans, I think this is not just you, only few people I know have the discipline to follow through, so I am not sure if it is type related

second,

In life, I should either be having fun or doing something productive.

this separation of fun from productive activity can indicate merry (alpha & beta) over serious (gamma & delta)
so you may want to check that

Third, about delaying your study maybe just procrastination, but the difficulty to force yourself to study can indicate judicious (alpha & delta) over decisive (beta & gamma)

Fourth, your need to know everything about the trip before going can indicate farsighted (ES or IN) over carefree (EN or IS)

If we some this up we get either LII or ESE which seems very far from the starting point (ESI) < that is the tricky part of reinin I guess

but if we ignored the merry over serious argument since it is weak to start with
we can add LSE and EII to the list

So, I suggest reading more about EII since it is the closest to ESI and see if it fits you better

[blackburry]

I've noticed that Ni- Polrs are much more sticklers for planning, following through, and tend to freak out over unwelcomed change. I procastinate, but ntr. It does seem that you are not irrational temperment though :-p.

[ConcreteButterfly]

I've noticed that Ni- Polrs are much more sticklers for planning, following through, and tend to freak out over unwelcomed change. I procastinate, but ntr. It does seem that you are not irrational temperment though :-p.

I've noticed all sensors tend to be more obsessive about planning and schedules than intuitives, more freaked out by sudden changes. I'm guessing it's because their kinetic blocks are sensory, so they are compelled to put their plans into action, unlike intuitives, for whom plans/ideas are the action, in a sense.

[Myst]

Hm I'm not freaked out by many things incl sudden changes. I just get focused, even more focused than my default and then deal with it. Planning and schedules are OK as having such a framework helps me actually go and do things but planning itself is NOT the action for sure, lol. It is not satisfying like actual action is.

[yeves]

I've observed that if I'm on a trip with my family, I want to know every detail of what it is we're going to do. I don't like surprises and unexpected events. I want to know exactly what it is I'm going to expect. I don't pursue new experience for the sake of it. I'm not going to try something just to see if I like it. I get anxious when I'm told to improvise or suddenly do something on the spot. I hate uncertainty. I've noticed that I tend to dread situations I have no experience in, even if it's as simple as visiting some place. If I ask someone a question, I want him to answer in certain or specific terms.

This is the description of rationality. The rest - indulging yourself at expense of efficiency, yet worrying about the later, could be Si hidden agenda. Have you thought of EII? Your dual could be a type that helps you to organize your daily life to realize your goals i.e. an LSE.

[Phantom]

This is the description of rationality. The rest - indulging yourself at expense of efficiency, yet worrying about the later, could be Si hidden agenda. Have you thought of EII? Your dual could be a type that helps you to organize your daily life to realize your goals i.e. an LSE.

Don't really relate to Si-Ne. I don't get hung up on sensations the way Si types do according to the descriptions. Also, they seem to value comfort and relaxation. I don't. In fact, it can irritate me. I like being occupied by stuff. I understand the importance of sleep but I still avoid it because I want to do things. Ne is irritating. A classic example is when I'm making some decision and whenever someone recommends an alternate path or multiple possibilities, I immediately tune him out. If you don't have a definite solution, I don't want your advice. What is possible doesn't interest me. What is plausible does. I dislike vague and philosophical questions which ask you to describe some concept or elaborate on the meaning of something. If you ask me to describe something, I'll just give you a dictionary. I'm not satisfied with uncertain answers. I don't like speculating about the objective future. I only speculate about what I'm going to do or how my life is going to be etc. I was talking to an LII the other day and he told me that he only considered clothes in association with warmth and comfort. I on the other hand see clothes as aesthetic forms of statement. A way to define your personality. For example, I exclusively wear hoodies and sweatpants in public because I have just designated them as the concrete manifestations of who I am. Yes, comfort and warmth figure because who willingly wants to feel uncomfortable but I'm much more concerned about the look, the aesthetics.

[Myst]

Don't really relate to Si-Ne. I don't get hung up on sensations the way Si types do according to the descriptions. Also, they seem to value comfort and relaxation. I don't. In fact, it can irritate me. I like being occupied by stuff. I understand the importance of sleep but I still avoid it because I want to do things. Ne is irritating. A classic example is when I'm making some decision and whenever someone recommends an alternate path or multiple possibilities, I immediately tune him out. If you don't have a definite solution, I don't want your advice. What is possible doesn't interest me. What is plausible does. I dislike vague and philosophical questions which ask you to describe some concept or elaborate on the meaning of something. If you ask me to describe something, I'll just give you a dictionary. I'm not satisfied with uncertain answers. I don't like speculating about the objective future. I only speculate about what I'm going to do or how my life is going to be etc. I was talking to an LII the other day and he told me that he only considered clothes in association with warmth and comfort. I on the other hand see clothes as aesthetic forms of statement. A way to define your personality. For example, I exclusively wear hoodies and sweatpants in public because I have just designated them as the concrete manifestations of who I am. Yes, comfort and warmth figure because who willingly wants to feel uncomfortable but I'm much more concerned about the look, the aesthetics.

I'm the same way with all of this lol. Though I do sleep enough because I need it for my sports training to be able to train hard enough to win.

Also the aesthetics of the clothes, yeah, I always say that I like to create a good sensory impression that makes me stand out. It's not really about my personality - though of course it indicates a message about me - so we differ there but that's your Fi.

I do give up some comfort with clothes and other things if I want the stuff because of its looks being cool enough. I'm easily able to adjust to stuff that's far from optimal in terms of comfort. I achieve that simply because I just don't care lol

Anyway I think your Ne is just like mine. How is your Ti?

[Phantom]

I'm the same way with all of this lol. Though I do sleep enough because I need it for my sports training to be able to train hard enough to win.

Also the aesthetics of the clothes, yeah, I always say that I like to create a good sensory impression that makes me stand out. It's not really about my personality - though of course it indicates a message about me - so we differ there but that's your Fi.

I do give up some comfort with clothes and other things if I want the stuff because of its looks being cool enough. I'm easily able to adjust to stuff that's far from optimal in terms of comfort. I achieve that simply because I just don't care lol

Anyway I think your Ne is just like mine. How is your Ti?

I kind of alluded to this when I said that I would just recommend a dictionary if someone asks me to describe something. I don't really care for subjective understanding. For example, programming. We were having a programming class and I didn't know shit so I asked the guy next to me to help me. He started talking about stuff like variables and arguments that didn't register in my brain at all. I politely let him finish just because he seemed so passionate about the whole thing and interrupting him would have been a dick move, and then asked him to just write a code and let me see how he does it. I learn by observations and examples, seeing how something is done and determining the pattern or general way of doing it. A set of instructions. This is why I struggle to concentrate in heavily theoretical lectures. Things float over my head. It's so frustratingly intangible. It's like I've accidentally stumbled upon some kind of cult where the members talk to each other in some esoteric made-up language. I can't visualize or realize what the teacher says and I get lost. What's worse is that they take common words like "argument" and change the definition, just to fuck with your head even more. I just can't get a grip on logical systems. Personally, I don't even consider it as logic. To me, logic is about how something follows from something else. How events relate to each other. If you listen to loud music incessantly, it's logical that you would develop hearing problems. Stuff like that. Although, I don't assert such statements because I'm unsure about them and anxious about having them be proven wrong. Like, even as I wrote that example, I was hesitant because I wondered whether some guy would barge in and say that I'm wrong by citing some scientific research or talking about fallacious correlation.

[Myst]

I kind of alluded to this when I said that I would just recommend a dictionary if someone asks me to describe something. I don't really care for subjective understanding. For example, programming. We were having a programming class and I didn't know shit so I asked the guy next to me to help me. He started talking about stuff like variables and arguments that didn't register in my brain at all. I politely let him finish just because he seemed so passionate about the whole thing and interrupting him would have been a dick move, and then asked him to just write a code and let me see how he does it. I learn by observations and examples, seeing how something is done and determining the pattern or general way of doing it. A set of instructions. This is why I struggle to concentrate in heavily theoretical lectures. Things float over my head. It's so frustratingly intangible. It's like I've accidentally stumbled upon some kind of cult where the members talk to each other in some esoteric made-up language. I can't visualize or realize what the teacher says and I get lost. What's worse is that they take common words like "argument" and change the definition, just to fuck with your head even more. I just can't get a grip on logical systems. Personally, I don't even consider it as logic. To me, logic is about how something follows from something else. How events relate to each other. If you listen to loud music incessantly, it's logical that you would develop hearing problems. Stuff like that. Although, I don't assert such statements because I'm unsure about them and anxious about having them be proven wrong. Like, even as I wrote that example, I was hesitant because I wondered whether some guy would barge in and say that I'm wrong by citing some scientific research or talking about fallacious correlation.

Alright your low confidence in Te, it can be seen as 1D Te. Though the Ti as well, lol.

I don't think it's a dick move to ask the guy to answer your questions after politely signalling to him that you have a problem with following. Or even just telling them that you can't follow it this way and just want to see examples.

I'd like to see how confirmed ESIs on this forum relate to your Ti issues. Or if it is more like an SEE thing.

[tejing]

Ne is irritating. A classic example is when I'm making some decision and whenever someone recommends an alternate path or multiple possibilities, I immediately tune him out. If you don't have a definite solution, I don't want your advice. What is possible doesn't interest me. What is plausible does.

I learn by observations and examples, seeing how something is done and determining the pattern or general way of doing it. A set of instructions. This is why I struggle to concentrate in heavily theoretical lectures. Things float over my head. It's so frustratingly intangible. It's like I've accidentally stumbled upon some kind of cult where the members talk to each other in some esoteric made-up language. I can't visualize or realize what the teacher says and I get lost. What's worse is that they take common words like "argument" and change the definition, just to fuck with your head even more. I just can't get a grip on logical systems. Personally, I don't even consider it as logic. To me, logic is about how something follows from something else. How events relate to each other. If you listen to loud music incessantly, it's logical that you would develop hearing problems. Stuff like that. Although, I don't assert such statements because I'm unsure about them and anxious about having them be proven wrong. Like, even as I wrote that example, I was hesitant because I wondered whether some guy would barge in and say that I'm wrong by citing some scientific research or talking about fallacious correlation.

Contrasting those two quotes, what I notice is that seems pointless and annoying to you, but it doesn't make you feel inadequate/stress you out the way does. This fits with polr and role.

[Myst]

@Serpent

why don't you write a paragraph on your Ni too?

[Myst]

Contrasting those two quotes, what I notice is that seems pointless and annoying to you, but it doesn't make you feel inadequate/stress you out the way does. This fits with polr and role.

Do you think the Te passes as HA?

[tejing]

Do you think the Te passes as HA?

Looking back at the other thread, I see mobilizing pretty clearly.

I also want to put every second of my life to good use.

complimented for being logical, although I'm just using common sense and looking for efficiency

[Myst]

Looking back at the other thread, I see mobilizing pretty clearly.

This doesn't sound like confidence in it like in HA though:

"Although, I don't assert such statements because I'm unsure about them and anxious about having them be proven wrong. Like, even as I wrote that example, I was hesitant because I wondered whether some guy would barge in and say that I'm wrong by citing some scientific research or talking about fallacious correlation"

The statements you quote can fit ESI too just fine.

[Myst]

@Serpent

Also think about who would be your dual, ILI or LIE. Are you receptive to help more in the area of thinking ahead and other Ni stuff or about knowledge on how things function and other Te stuff?

[Phantom]

Both, really. I get anxious when I think about life after college. I have no idea what to do after I graduate. Taxes, bank accounts, jobs, insurances, responsibilities, business etc. I feel like I don't know how to do professional life. I'm even anxious about getting a part-time job. I kind of wish I was born during medieval times. You know, when you discovered life on your own, through expeditions and observations. Going to places. You didn't have shit like degrees, certificates and institutions. If you wanted to learn something, you learned it. If you wanted to do something, you did it. You didn't need a sheet of paper to prove your worth to other people. You were an individual.

I think one of my vulnerable points is that I'm not going to amount to anything. I get enraged whenever someone says I'm good for nothing or that I'm not to go far in life. Like, scarily.

[tejing]

This doesn't sound like confidence in it like in HA though:

"Although, I don't assert such statements because I'm unsure about them and anxious about having them be proven wrong. Like, even as I wrote that example, I was hesitant because I wondered whether some guy would barge in and say that I'm wrong by citing some scientific research or talking about fallacious correlation"

The statements you quote can fit ESI too just fine.

Where are you getting the bit about the mobilizing function being something you're confident in? I haven't seen that in any of the descriptions, and I'm certainly not confident in my use of .

[Myst]

Both, really. I get anxious when I think about life after college. I have no idea what to do after I graduate. Taxes, bank accounts, jobs, insurances, responsibilities, business etc. I feel like I don't know how to do professional life. I'm even anxious about getting a part-time job. I kind of wish I was born during medieval times. You know, when you discovered life on your own, through expeditions and observations. Going to places. You didn't have shit like degrees, certificates and institutions. If you wanted to learn something, you learned it. If you wanted to do something, you did it. You didn't need a sheet of paper to prove your worth to other people. You were an individual.

I think one of my vulnerable points is that I'm not going to amount to anything. I get enraged whenever someone says I'm good for nothing or that I'm not to go far in life. Like, scarily.

OK you're really afraid of Te related stuff or this is NTR.

Where are you getting the bit about the mobilizing function being something you're confident in? I haven't seen that in any of the descriptions, and I'm certainly not confident in my use of .

Not totally confident in it, it is not like the Ego block for sure, it's just an area of self esteem so the person focuses on it at times a lot, certainly having some autonomy in that area and possibly even getting carried away feeling like they can do it well. Overall confident enough in it to try and display it at times and of course making mistakes when doing so, while you don't really do that with your suggestive by default.

[Adam Strange]

Don't really relate to Si-Ne. I don't get hung up on sensations the way Si types do according to the descriptions. Also, they seem to value comfort and relaxation. I don't. In fact, it can irritate me. I like being occupied by stuff. I understand the importance of sleep but I still avoid it because I want to do things. Ne is irritating. A classic example is when I'm making some decision and whenever someone recommends an alternate path or multiple possibilities, I immediately tune him out. If you don't have a definite solution, I don't want your advice. What is possible doesn't interest me. What is plausible does. I dislike vague and philosophical questions which ask you to describe some concept or elaborate on the meaning of something. If you ask me to describe something, I'll just give you a dictionary. I'm not satisfied with uncertain answers. I don't like speculating about the objective future. I only speculate about what I'm going to do or how my life is going to be etc.

Ne-PoLR

I was talking to an LII the other day and he told me that he only considered clothes in association with warmth and comfort. I on the other hand see clothes as aesthetic forms of statement. A way to define your personality. For example, I exclusively wear hoodies and sweatpants in public because I have just designated them as the concrete manifestations of who I am. Yes, comfort and warmth figure because who willingly wants to feel uncomfortable but I'm much more concerned about the look, the aesthetics.

Confident that you can define your own style. Fashion houses are still mining Paul Newman's (ESI) old wardrobe.

I kind of alluded to this when I said that I would just recommend a dictionary if someone asks me to describe something. I don't really care for subjective understanding. For example, programming. We were having a programming class and I didn't know shit so I asked the guy next to me to help me. He started talking about stuff like variables and arguments that didn't register in my brain at all. I politely let him finish just because he seemed so passionate about the whole thing and interrupting him would have been a dick move, and then asked him to just write a code and let me see how he does it. I learn by observations and examples, seeing how something is done and determining the pattern or general way of doing it. A set of instructions. This is why I struggle to concentrate in heavily theoretical lectures. Things float over my head. It's so frustratingly intangible. It's like I've accidentally stumbled upon some kind of cult where the members talk to each other in some esoteric made-up language. I can't visualize or realize what the teacher says and I get lost. What's worse is that they take common words like "argument" and change the definition, just to fuck with your head even more. I just can't get a grip on logical systems. Personally, I don't even consider it as logic. To me, logic is about how something follows from something else. How events relate to each other. If you listen to loud music incessantly, it's logical that you would develop hearing problems. Stuff like that. Although, I don't assert such statements because I'm unsure about them and anxious about having them be proven wrong. Like, even as I wrote that example, I was hesitant because I wondered whether some guy would barge in and say that I'm wrong by citing some scientific research or talking about fallacious correlation.

I agree with @Myst. "Alright your low confidence in Te, it can be seen as 1D Te. Though the Ti as well, lol."

Both, really. I get anxious when I think about life after college. I have no idea what to do after I graduate. Taxes, bank accounts, jobs, insurances, responsibilities, business etc. I feel like I don't know how to do professional life. I'm even anxious about getting a part-time job. I kind of wish I was born during medieval times. You know, when you discovered life on your own, through expeditions and observations. Going to places.

Low confidence in making own choices about future life - weak Ni = ESI.
Anxious- E6.
"discovered life on your own" - Strong Se.
Going places - counterphobic E6.

You didn't have shit like degrees, certificates and institutions. If you wanted to learn something, you learned it. If you wanted to do something, you did it. You didn't need a sheet of paper to prove your worth to other people. You were an individual.

democratic values, either Alpha or Gamma quadra.

I think one of my vulnerable points is that I'm not going to amount to anything. I get enraged whenever someone says I'm good for nothing or that I'm not to go far in life. Like, scarily.

Anger reaction - possibly E8

Probably ESI-Se, counterphobic E6.

I hope your avatar picture is not how you see yourself. It is pretty scary.

[Phantom]

I hope your avatar picture is not how you see yourself. It is pretty scary.

Lol no, don't worry about that. I was going through a phase where I wanted to show everyone how deep and complex I was. I thought that picture looked cool and ambiguous enough to be seen as some profound commentary on the essence of self or something like that. My current profile picture is more about aesthetics but still related to self-expression. I like skulls. I find them cool. But I have also kind of created an archetype out of them, similar to gas masks, snakes and hoodies. Things that might not blatantly represent who I am but represent my style. They're like symbols.

[Adam Strange]

Your previous avatar picture looked like your soul and everything around you had been burned to a crisp and abandoned to the elements. Maybe you would be better compared to Eminem (another ESI) than to Paul Newman. Like you, Eminem prefers hoodies, but he also has really good taste in leather jackets.
I'd like to find out where he buys his clothes.

[Myst]

@Serpent

So you decided on SEE now?

[Phantom]

@Serpent

So you decided on SEE now?

Not really, still vacillating between SEE and ESI, only slightly leaning towards the former. But yeah, I've decided on Gamma SF.

[Satan]

Not really, still vacillating between SEE and ESI, only slightly leaning towards the former. But yeah, I've decided on Gamma SF.

i'd guess isfj for you over esfp. you just don't seem to have an ep temperment. but we shall see.

[Phantom]

i'd guess isfj for you over esfp. you just don't seem to have an ep temperment. but we shall see.

Can you elaborate on that? Why you think I fit the IJ temperament more.

I had a look at the temperament descriptions and I do relate to IJ more. I feel I have quite a rigid and passive approach to life, I even feel like a rock at times. Although, the tendency to fidget during long periods of inactivity is something I relate to as well. In fact, I involuntarily shake my legs pretty much every time I sit. Hell, I'm doing it right now. It's been a quirk of mine for as long as I can recall. I also find it hard to just stay still or stand at one spot for more than a few minutes. For example, when I'm waiting for a bus or something, I move around or walk in circles. Could just be ADHD.

[Satan]

Can you elaborate on that? The distinction between IJ and EP.

ep fast, ij slow. ep up and down, ij low to mid

[The Exception]

ep fast, ij slow. ep up and down, ij low to mid

You have Ij listed twice.

I'd say Ip is slow and Ij low to mid.

[blackburry]

You have Ij listed twice.

I'd say Ip is slow and Ij low to mid.

He listed both ep and ij twice. I think he was contrasting the two or at least that is how I read it which could be incorrect.

[The Exception]

Ej consistently high
Ep on average medium to high, variable energy level

[Myst]

Can you elaborate on that? Why you think I fit the IJ temperament more.

I had a look at the temperament descriptions and I do relate to IJ more. I feel I have quite a rigid and passive approach to life, I even feel like a rock at times. Although, the tendency to fidget during long periods of inactivity is something I relate to as well. In fact, I involuntarily shake my legs pretty much every time I sit. Hell, I'm doing it right now. It's been a quirk of mine for as long as I can recall. I also find it hard to just stay still or stand at one spot for more than a few minutes. For example, when I'm waiting for a bus or something, I move around or walk in circles. Could just be ADHD.

The first part of your post is more relevant to temperaments than the last part. I do like to move around like you describe too and I'm not ADHD.

[Myst]

ep fast, ij slow. ep up and down, ij low to mid

Yeah, nice summary, though I can be really "up" too at times. I also like to do things really fast when I get in that sort of mood. Like to put a lot of energy into my movements when it's not even necessary when manipulating objects.