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Thread: What make you sx first?

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    Kim's Avatar
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    Default What make you sx first?

    I am curious to hear what made you sx-firsts determine that you are, in fact, sx first?

    It's fine to comment on each other's descriptions with regards to how much you relate (or don't relate), but please no retyping or "this is not sx-related" or "this is sp first," etc.

    PS: Can someone correct the title, please?
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
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    I took an on-line test before I knew anything about the test or what it was measuring, and got sx/so as a result. I had no idea what it meant at the time, so I couldn't subconsciously skew the results to make it come out one way or the other.

    If I look at the three instincts as being ways to find safety in the world, with sx types finding safely through a few deep relationships, so through belonging to a group or having an extended friends network, and sp as having a lot of stuff to provide security or having a certain amount of money in the bank, then I am definitely sx/so. I most need a few good friends whom I can count on, then an extended friend network for getting things done, and I don't care much about having stuff. I have stuff, but I really don't care about it. I could throw it all out tomorrow and I'd be fine, so long as I can keep a credit card, a driver's license (or passport, depending on where I am), and the contact list on my phone. Stuff won't save your ass when you get into trouble, but good friends will.

    With respect to one example that confirmed that I am sx-first, when I divorced my wife, I started researching factors which might have caused the breakup, and started looking for someone who will be more permanent. She, on the other hand, went out and bought a $1200 vacuum cleaner and says she is not looking at all. Guess which instinct is first for her?
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 09-17-2015 at 07:30 PM.

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    I am not sure if I can answer this without alienating or repelling half the forum.

    Maybe I will post links to some threads where I talked about my sx first behavior, which started in early childhood, and could have killed me a few times over if my secondary instinct, or guardian spirits, didn't rush in to save me. It was not all self destructive behavior either. Mostly just looking for that rush of intensity and desire to experience everything on a very deep, intimate, level. I have never been single long and my relationships tend to go from hanging out a few times, right into living together. I have lived with every bf I have had starting around age 14. My mom reluctantly let me move a 17 year old bf in when I was 14 so I would stop running away to be with him.


    Edit: a link to 14 year old me.
    Last edited by Aylen; 09-19-2015 at 11:43 AM.

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    I'm not all that attached to any typing, and have considered various stackings, but:

    "When Sexual Ones find a partner who they believe shares their values, they become extremely excited and highly protective of their relationship. They may also idealize the partner, constantly striving to feel worthy of the other's love. Nonetheless, anxieties about the partner's losing the shared values may cause Sexual Ones to become critical of the other. They want to remind the partner of the high standards that they both live by but they can create problems in the relationship by trying to keep the other "on track." Nonetheless, they are passionate about their intimates and devoted to keeping their relationships moving toward higher ground."

    and

    "May be preoccupied with their romantic partner. Have high expectations based on having idealized their beloved. . . One's reaction is jealous judgment if their beloved acts in less-than-ideal ways. Jealous Ones may drive partners away with endless criticism. Can have a dependent tendency related to the low side of 2. Most intimate Ones have a 2 wing"

    are unfortunately true for me and this has been a real struggle to try to overcome. I'm extremely jealous, possessive and some might say controlling, and I damn well don't want to be. The other stackings don't apply to me in this way as being so descriptive of a very real problem I have. I can see some sp in general in me, but the sp 1 descriptions are foreign to me and the so 1 has some application but still doesn't describe me.

    For general, non-1 stacking descriptions: elements of every stacking seem to apply, but I have in the past given up everything else for sx, and would again. My personal safety, security, social connections and belonging matters less to me, but they do compete. For example, knowing my family does or would disapprove of someone or something does make it harder for me, but in the end, it doesn't stop me. Even knowing I'd have to completely give up all my family connections wouldn't stop me, but it would be very hard. It is difficult because they are really my only connections, support, and place where I feel somewhat understood. Giving up my home and possessions is easier. That I could do without much struggle. One thing that probably overrides all 3 instincts though, is my sense of responsibility. If someone is depending on me, if they need me, that is more important than anything else at the moment. I protect my life and avoid risks because of other people rather than myself, and it sometimes frustrates me that I have to do so, but I always will uphold my obligations and responsibilities. Maybe that is social instinct, but it doesn't feel like it, because it is only for specific people, not towards any organization or group or anything.

    I feel like I understand and can empathize with the needs of all 3 instincts, because like every other human, I have all the instincts as well, but I think I have more empathy for sx and maybe even so more than sp. I get not wanting to be ostracized (so) that makes sense to me, I can understand that need and fear, but I find it difficult to understand someone whose safety and comfort is more important to them than anything else. So, I'm sure that I am not sp primary. However, because of how easily and naturally I take care of sp things without much thought, I also don't think it's my blind spot. I don't have quite the devil-may-care attitude I kind of envy in many sx/so types. I'm too responsible to be as irresponsible as I'd like hehe. I'm also 100% sure I'm not sx-last. The idea is kind of laughable. I don't mind if people think I am, or were to type me that way, because sp/so and so/sp are so often seen as undesirable types to be around here, that nobody seems to want to be them. I don't mind filling the quota or whatever though, because it seems to me that a lot of people use typings to feel better about themselves in some way, almost as a source of pride. I don't. So, if someone wants to say, "squark is sooo sp/so because blah blah and I am NOTHING like her so I'm sx-first" that's fine with me.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Obsession and self-absorption(more sp side of it)

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    Because I instinctively desire to get in tune with others and tend to experience most things more intensely than I have the right to.
    salmon

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Because... I relate so pertinently to this quote, my favourite quote by Kurt Vonnegut:

    "I want to stand as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all the kinds of things you can’t see from the center."

    And this one by fellow sx/so Henry Rollins: .

    "I want a soulmate who can sit me down, shut me up, tell me ten things I don't already know, and make me laugh. I don't care what you look like, just turn me on. And if you can do that, I will follow you on bloody stumps through the snow. I will nibble your mukluks with my own teeth. I will do your windows. I will care about your feelings. Just have something in there!"

    An sx can recognize another sx easily. It's all about intensity.


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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    It's fine to comment on each other's descriptions with regards to how much you relate (or don't relate), but please no retyping or "this is not sx-related" or "this is sp first," etc.
    If someone says they're sx because of some non-sx-related thing, we shouldn't call them sx, nor should we not continue to raise the question of what it "is" or how it operates.

    I don't really feel adept at answering this question in a way that properly conveys what I understand sx to be without generalizing my whole experience to the point where all people can relate to it. A lot of my understanding comes how a person presents themselves with their immediate expenditure of psychological energy, so it's tough to quantify outside of personal impressions I've gathered over years of observation. And talking about these observations in terms of a person's "energy" gets rife with personal interpretation, so I tread with caution.


    If it's at all possible (note: it is), I'd avoid the word "intense" completely when describing sx types. I've come to find it a really shitty word to describe the phenomenon, because people seem to just conflate it w/ having high energy levels. I don't consider myself to be particularly "intense," and I don't see many other self-typed sx-firsts (particularly sx/sps) like that either. The thing I see more is a certain internal reactivity, an uncensored spontaneous burst of inner energy even if there's not a lot of it. This type of internal awareness also leads a valuing and respect of that internal reactivity in others. You'll often find Sx-firsts looking for ways to gently poke at people in order to get a rise out of them, to check and see if they're alive inside. I remember discojoe, an old LSI sx/sp member, would often ask people these weird semi-rude-but-not-quite-rude-enough-to-make-you-angry questions just to see how they'd react. "Are you a grower or a shower?" "If you could have sex with any animal..." etc. There's a certain compulsion to trigger something uncomfortably reactionary in people, themselves included. It's not by definition sadistic or masochistic behavior, and I don't often see sx-firsts bemoaning over their inner turmoil unless particularly stressed.

    Sx-secondary types will sorta play along with these solicitations for internal reactivity, but I don't often see them initiate it. Sx-lasts can and do experience a certain inner restlessness depending on how neurotic + energetic the type gets, but they don't readily express this in a very reactive manner. It can sound very matter-of-fact and unpoetic to someone who's much more aware of their internal dynamism and acts it out more readily.
    Last edited by Galen; 09-18-2015 at 07:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    If someone says they're sx because of some non-sx-related thing, we shouldn't call them sx, nor should we not continue to raise the question of what it "is" or how it operates.
    In this thread, people should get the opportunity to describe how they perceive themselves without someone barging in and yelling "lololol you are not sx first." It's more productive to get a number of self-assessments than having a few people decide who is "allowed" to call themselves sx-first.

    You can raise raise questions or retype people in other threads.
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    escaping anndelise's Avatar
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    Why I identify as sx first...

     

    I'm a serial monogamist. I had a tendency to get involved in a relationship really quickly. At the start there is so much potential to it. But as time shows inconsistencies and mismatches I would end the relationship for both our sakes, and before I knew it I would be in another one, just as intense, feeling just as much potential to it. And so the cycle would continue.

    R is the only one that's fit just right, in all the right places. And so that particular part of my search has ended. Though I did find myself falling into old patterns of being nearly obsessed with a couple of other people, none of them could ever have as much potential to fit right as R already does.

    In non-romantic relationships, my curiosity about someone can be so strong that they get a ton of my attention until that curiosity is satisfied, and then unfortunately, my attention moves elsewhere. This redirection of my attentions have unintentionally caused ill feelings and disappointments and a sense of being used by the person I had been so interested in. They expected that type of attention would last indefinitely.


     

    Most of the Sx descriptions focus on a relationship with another person. But in my opinion it's not just people that can receive this kind of attention. Even though my search for a partner that fits me is over, I'm still constantly seeking something to fill that sense of incompleteness I feel. Like I'm broken or missing something and trying to find that one piece that will fill the chink.

    I'm constantly researching new ideas, trying to...inhale....embrace....whatever it is I am learning about. I collect everything I can on it, gather as much info as I can on it. But it can get so intense that I'm going to inevitably burn out and need to step away from it and do some self-care and recoup.

    But it's also not just in researching that I do this all-out thing. It's also in projects, ideas that i want to implement or more physical things that I want to try out. Again I will initially go all out on it. Research for the best items needed for it, buy everything I can for it so that nothing would block my way from pursuing it. And then once I have everything, i feel good that if i just take a short break to recoup, then I can just pick it up and start it. But i don't. Because after my break I get intensely focused on yet another possible project/idea.

    This constant cycle has been so frustrating to me. I've collected all these really nice tools and books from all those old aspirations. And I feel overhwelmed when i see them. There,s no way I can actually do them all. I've had my living room and a full shed filled with boxes of these old aspirations. I've been going through them and weaning them out, selling books at the used bookstore, even giving away stuff to friends who actually pursue those interests. I've finally got it down to shelves on three sides of my living room filled with boxes of books and notes and tools from a little over a dozen aspirations. And still I keep finding myself looking and researching for more. Argh!

    I am, however, getting better at re-aligning myself to the aspirations that are meaningful to me. Every once in a while I step out into other stuff, but I'm getting better at holding off on buying anything until I've recentered enough times that I can let those impulses go.


    Tldr: I guess in summary, I totally identify with the 'hungry ghost' descriptions of sx.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    When I fall for someone (as in, really fall in love), I latch onto the person and become obsessed, not only with the guy himself, but his life. I want to know everything about him, from childhood illnesses to previous relationships to every single detail of his career, etc. I try not to be intrusive and needy and generally succeed, but I love it when they talk about themselves because I feel like they let me in. When the person needs space, I can understand it intellectually, but I am still hurt and feel rejected ("how can you claim to love me and not spend every minute with me?"). My sx-first ex and I were always in close proximity at home (in the same room, right next to each other) and that felt right. I want to share everything with them, especially experiences. The best thing my current love interest said to me was "I want to make moments and memories with you." Experiences and adventures are the most important thing of my life and if I can share them with that one person, I am truly happy. The more exciting and new, the better.

    I want them to be part of my life in every shape and form even if they can't actively participate in everything. I understand that they sometimes can't be part of all of it, but I want them to want to be. SLE won't be able to travel much with me because of job restrictions, but I know he would love to and that's good enough. I have to force myself to keep my own life to make sure I can cope with losing the person. But my natural inclination is to go all in, make all the sacrifices, and find all the compromises to engage fully with the person. While I love that person and he loves me back, I am intensely loyal because I cannot conceive of connecting with someone else like this because my focus is fully on him. I tend to idealize the person and I get hurt easily when I feel criticized or neglected. I can get extremely depressed, anxious, and/or angry if things are not right in my relationship and it can be extremely difficult to keep my life together in that case.

    However, if the person wrongs me and my loyalty, I am done. Because I feel so strongly about the relationship and give it to so much space in my life, I feel wronged and betrayed if someone takes advantage or cheats or lies about his feelings. I want him to be either all in or not at all. I would never go back to a previous relationship because that bond has been compromised. When I have been betrayed, I move on fairly quickly.

    When I decide I want something, I go after it. I decided at 16 that I wanted to live in the U.S. and have worked towards that since then. I sacrificed financial security and a comfortable life with a high salary and being close to my family and a support network for my current career and for living in the U.S. I decided to go for a degree with which I ran a legitimate risk of not finding a job. I have been vulnerable for 16 years with regards to losing a job or not being able to function because that would have meant losing everything, including my visa, and having to leave and start over. When I had cancer, my doctor suggested that I go back home to have a support network and time to recover (and free treatment). But I was not willing to risk my career and my visa, so I decided to tough it out alone. My doctors did not like it because of possible complications, but for me it was the only way, so I took the risk.

    When I am interested in an issue, I want to know everything about it (which is why my career is pretty perfect). I read everything I can find, talk to people, and write about it, until something else comes along. I do shift from one thing to the next, but while I am on something, I am obsessed with it.

    I can take care of myself and my obligations, but I readily spend money and otherwise sacrifice for a person, a goal, or a cause. I would drive six hours to an airport if it means I can see my loved one for 30 minutes or buy a ticket and fly around the world to meet someone for a day. It's exciting to me and I don't care about losing money, time, and other opportunities. I cashed out my retirement fund so I can live close to the beach and lost quite a bit of money over it, but it was entirely worth it.
    Last edited by Kim; 09-20-2015 at 07:18 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    When I decide I want something, I go after it. I decided at 16 that I wanted to live in the U.S. and have worked towards that since then. I sacrificed financial security and a comfortable life with a high salary and being close to my family and a support network for my current career and for living in the U.S. I decided to go for a degree with which I ran a legitimate risk of not finding a job. I have been vulnerable for 16 years with regards to losing a job or not being able to function because that would have meant losing everything, including my visa, and having to leave and start over. When I had cancer, my doctor suggested that I go back home to have a support network and time to recover (and free treatment). But I was not willing to risk my career and my visa, so I decided to tough it out alone. My doctors did not like it because of possible complications, but for me it was the only way, so I took the risk.
    I realize that non-sx-firsts do these things, too, but I think the difference is how much you agonize over not feeling secure. It has never been priority for me and I have a pretty high tolerance for discomfort. I would like to a have someone who takes on building the home base because I am not good at it and I don't find it important or exciting enough to bother much beyond the basics. But if I had to chose between the comfortable and stable and secure home base and throwing all our money into a 3-year trip around the world and worrying about what we will do after later, I would take the trip.
    Last edited by Kim; 09-20-2015 at 03:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    When I fall for someone (as in, really fall in love), I latch onto the person and become obsessed, not only with the guy himself, but his life. I want to know everything about him, from childhood illnesses to previous relationships to every single detail of his career, etc. I try not to be intrusive and needy and generally succeed, but I love it when they talk about themselves because I feel like they let me in. When the person needs space, I can understand it intellectually, but I am still hurt and feel rejected ("how can you claim to love me and not spend every minute with me?"). My sx-first ex and I were always in close proximity at home (in the same room, right next to each other) and that felt right. I want to share everything with them, especially experiences. The best thing my current love interest said to me was "I want to make moments and memories with you." Experiences and adventures are the most important thing of my life and if I can share them with that one person, I am truly happy. The more exciting and new, the better.

    I want them to be part of my life in every shape and form even if they can't actively participate in everything. I understand that they sometimes can't be part of all of it, but I want them to want to be. SLE won't be able to travel much with me because of job restrictions, but I know he would love to and that's good enough. I have to force myself to keep my own life to make sure I can cope with losing the person. But my natural inclination is to go all in, make all the sacrifices, and find all the compromises to engage fully with the person. While I love that person and he loves me back, I am intensely loyal because I cannot conceive of connecting with someone else like this because my focus is fully on him. I tend to idealize the person and I get hurt easily when I feel criticized or neglected. I can get extremely depressed, anxious, and/or angry if things are not right in my relationship and it can be extremely difficult to keep my life together in that case.

    However, if the person wrongs me and my loyalty, I am done. Because I feel so strongly about the relationship and give it to so much space in my life, I feel wronged and betrayed if someone takes advantage or cheats or lies about his feelings. I want him to be either all in or not at all. I would never go back to a previous relationship because that bond has been compromised. When I have been betrayed, I move on fairly quickly.

    When I decide I want something, I go after it. I decided at 16 that I wanted to live in the U.S. and have worked towards that since then. I sacrificed financial security and a comfortable life with a high salary and being close to my family and a support network for my current career and for living in the U.S. I decided to go for a degree with which I ran a legitimate risk of not finding a job. I have been vulnerable for 16 years with regards to losing a job or not being able to function because that would have meant losing everything, including my visa, and having to leave and start over. When I had cancer, my doctor suggested that I go back home to have a support network and time to recover (and free treatment). But I was not willing to risk my career and my visa, so I decided to tough it out alone. My doctors did not like it because of possible complications, but for me it was the only way, so I took the risk.

    When I am interested in an issue, I want to know everything about it (which is why my career is pretty perfect). I read everything I can find, talk to people, and write about it, until something else comes along. I do shift from one thing to the next, but while I am on something, I am obsessed with it.

    I can take care of myself and my obligations, but I readily spend money and otherwise sacrifice for a person, a goal, or a cause. I would drive six hours to an airport if it means I can see my loved one for 30 minutes or buy a ticket and fly around the world to meet someone for a day. It's exciting to me and I don't care about losing money, time, and other opportunities. I cashed out my retirement fund so I can live close to the beach and lost quite a bit of money over it, but it was entirely worth it.
    I strongly identify with all of the bolded, and feel the same way. And this "I would drive six hours to an airport if it means I can see my loved one for 30 minutes or buy a ticket and fly around the world to meet someone for a day" I've done something similar to this, several times. Driven an hour to the airport, taken a 3 hour flight only to have an hour with someone, and then flown 3 hours back, and the hour drive back home. And then repeated the whole thing again sometime later. And I'd do it again - although once I nearly missed my flight back, and it was the last flight of the day back home. The little bit of time was worth all of it.

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elina View Post
    I see this as an e6 trait. @Pookie who self types 6 soc/sx said something like he likes to throw rocks at ppl to see how they react or something along those lines. The whole testing others (or anything) thing is a big e6 "troubleshooting" behavior.
    I usually see this in any sx-type, although its manifestations will vary depending on main type. I haven't seen Pookie do anything particularly extreme when it comes to poking at people, it usually seems more like light-hearted goofery instead of the heavier, potentially more invasive examples w/ discojoe. I also remember one night on tinychat with Transkar doing something very similar, asking people lots of personal sex-related questions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    I usually see this in any sx-type, although its manifestations will vary depending on main type. I haven't seen Pookie do anything particularly extreme when it comes to poking at people, it usually seems more like light-hearted goofery instead of the heavier, potentially more invasive examples w/ discojoe. I also remember one night on tinychat with Transkar doing something very similar, asking people lots of personal sex-related questions.
    idk, i attribute that style of invasiveness to the fact that discojoe and Transkar are trolls, lol

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    idk, i attribute that style of invasiveness to the fact that discojoe and Transkar are trolls, lol
    I mean sure, but I don't see any non-sx-first types doing similar things. Their examples are more extreme, so they stand out more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    I'm not all that attached to any typing, and have considered various stackings, but:

    "When Sexual Ones find a partner who they believe shares their values, they become extremely excited and highly protective of their relationship. They may also idealize the partner, constantly striving to feel worthy of the other's love. Nonetheless, anxieties about the partner's losing the shared values may cause Sexual Ones to become critical of the other. They want to remind the partner of the high standards that they both live by but they can create problems in the relationship by trying to keep the other "on track." Nonetheless, they are passionate about their intimates and devoted to keeping their relationships moving toward higher ground."

    and

    "May be preoccupied with their romantic partner. Have high expectations based on having idealized their beloved. . . One's reaction is jealous judgment if their beloved acts in less-than-ideal ways. Jealous Ones may drive partners away with endless criticism. Can have a dependent tendency related to the low side of 2. Most intimate Ones have a 2 wing"

    are unfortunately true for me and this has been a real struggle to try to overcome. I'm extremely jealous, possessive and some might say controlling, and I damn well don't want to be. The other stackings don't apply to me in this way as being so descriptive of a very real problem I have. I can see some sp in general in me, but the sp 1 descriptions are foreign to me and the so 1 has some application but still doesn't describe me.

    For general, non-1 stacking descriptions: elements of every stacking seem to apply, but I have in the past given up everything else for sx, and would again. My personal safety, security, social connections and belonging matters less to me, but they do compete. For example, knowing my family does or would disapprove of someone or something does make it harder for me, but in the end, it doesn't stop me. Even knowing I'd have to completely give up all my family connections wouldn't stop me, but it would be very hard. It is difficult because they are really my only connections, support, and place where I feel somewhat understood. Giving up my home and possessions is easier. That I could do without much struggle. One thing that probably overrides all 3 instincts though, is my sense of responsibility. If someone is depending on me, if they need me, that is more important than anything else at the moment. I protect my life and avoid risks because of other people rather than myself, and it sometimes frustrates me that I have to do so, but I always will uphold my obligations and responsibilities. Maybe that is social instinct, but it doesn't feel like it, because it is only for specific people, not towards any organization or group or anything.
    Interesting, the EIE's I have known are also like this. The one I know is also extremely good at checking in by calling and texting every hour & always telling me what he was doing or about to do. He became annoyed and anxious when I wouldn't do the same. I wonder if it fits into the LSI - EIE duality dynamic.


    I feel like I understand and can empathize with the needs of all 3 instincts, because like every other human, I have all the instincts as well, but I think I have more empathy for sx and maybe even so more than sp. I get not wanting to be ostracized (so) that makes sense to me, I can understand that need and fear, but I find it difficult to understand someone whose safety and comfort is more important to them than anything else. So, I'm sure that I am not sp primary. However, because of how easily and naturally I take care of sp things without much thought, I also don't think it's my blind spot. I don't have quite the devil-may-care attitude I kind of envy in many sx/so types. I'm too responsible to be as irresponsible as I'd like hehe. I'm also 100% sure I'm not sx-last. The idea is kind of laughable. I don't mind if people think I am, or were to type me that way, because sp/so and so/sp are so often seen as undesirable types to be around here, that nobody seems to want to be them. I don't mind filling the quota or whatever though, because it seems to me that a lot of people use typings to feel better about themselves in some way, almost as a source of pride. I don't. So, if someone wants to say, "squark is sooo sp/so because blah blah and I am NOTHING like her so I'm sx-first" that's fine with me.
    That was mostly Amber feeding that vibe, imo... she's gone now.
    Last edited by fox; 09-21-2015 at 07:23 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elina View Post
    I see this as an e6 trait. @Pookie who self types 6 soc/sx said something like he likes to throw rocks at ppl to see how they react or something along those lines. The whole testing others (or anything) thing is a big e6 "troubleshooting" behavior.
    Nu-uh!
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I am not sure if I can answer this without alienating or repelling half the forum.

    Maybe I will post links to some threads where I talked about my sx first behavior, which started in early childhood, and could have killed me a few times over if my secondary instinct, or guardian spirits, didn't rush in to save me. It was not all self destructive behavior either. Mostly just looking for that rush of intensity and desire to experience everything on a very deep, intimate, level. I have never been single long and my relationships tend to go from hanging out a few times, right into living together. I have lived with every bf I have had starting around age 14. My mom reluctantly let me move a 17 year old bf in when I was 14 so I would stop running away to be with him.


    Edit: a link to 14 year old me.
    I wonder if my IEE mom is sx first. This sounds like her early life, especially running away from home & moving to another country at a young age to be with my dad. She also never stays single... ever. She's very charming and men love her.

    I wouldn't really call my mother intense though. She's very relaxed and passive. Tbh I'm much more intense & volatile than her (I'm sp first), though I am a Beta e 4 while my mom is Delta e 9
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    I wonder if my IEE mom is sx first. This sounds like her early life, especially running away from home & moving to another country at a young age to be with my dad. She also never stays single... ever. She's very charming and men love her.

    I wouldn't really call my mother intense though. She's very relaxed and passive. Tbh I'm much more intense & volatile than her (I'm sp first), though I am a Beta e 4 while my mom is Delta e 9

    I think intensity can often be expressed in private or internally so maybe the right term might be "strong personality". I can't deny that, sometimes, I sort of have that "people love me or hate me" thing going on, which baffles me because I don't hate people. Sometimes I hate their actions but not the person. Some people who have claimed to hate me never even talked to me.

    Maybe I should say people understand me or misunderstand me. I think that is better. I get a lot of attention in groups even when I would rather be left alone. Maybe because I am more into expressing myself than explaining myself. I am trying to be more mindful of my words and how they might be taken but that feels so suffocating.

    I don't like it when some people are not included or even pushed out and I feel for them so I want them to feel they belong. That could be because I never feel like I truly belong and I am projecting. Perhaps they could care less if they are included, in the core group, within the group, but if I like them and made a connection I want them there. I have had conflict with delta friends by bringing an "outsider" into the core. Having a lot of empathy sucks sometimes and leaves me feeling like I am between a rock and a hard place.

    That is why I would rather stay home than go to a party or club and sit there miserable. I can be miserable all by myself and it feels better that way. I recently checked in with an old group I was a part of and everyone started pm-ing me and were shocked to see I was back. Some thought I was dead. :/ I had people I don't even remember telling me they thought of me often. I have not even responded to some of the messages because they made it sound like we had a personal relationship and asked about my family. I don't remember talking to them privately. I think I used to write a lot of my insights in that group and some people felt like they knew me but it is more one-sided since I don't think they shared as much as I did.

    I have an IEE sx/so friend and she is totally delightful to be around. When the two of us were together we stirred things up but it was always her who would realize that we were going "too far" and she would reign me in. She has never been single either, until recently, (I don't imagine she will be long) but she had a child and all that sx energy is being directed toward raising a socially aware and responsible little human being, who will change the planet and take care of it. It is like a complete turn around from how she was. I knew our friendship would change when she had kids but I didn't realize how much. She still indulges in previous interests, when she can, but now the child comes first, which is how it should be, but I lack the mothering gene or maybe it has been modified. I don't know.

    I think she may be a 368 in enneagram but used to think she was a 7 or 9 because of some of her behavior. She has a "strong personality" and tests ENFP in MBTI. I have not told her about socionics yet but IEE is most probable.

    If she were a core 4 and beta she would probably be terrifying. She is very charming and I fell in love with her, in a friendly way, the first time we met and she did with me. She even asked me to take in her last bf when she broke up with him (she still loves him to this day but not romantically) and he stayed with my family, a few months, while he got himself together.

    She gets very sad and sincerely worries for me when I go through troubling times because she knows I can be more volatile and self destructive than her. She was very happy to hear I had gone through intense therapy after my last fiasco. I have had years of therapy on and off but this time feels different somehow. I think it will stick.

    Inquisitive and direct 3. This is the most provocative and loyal 3. A true debater, this is the most industrious, rebellious and anti-authoritarian 3. A natural leader and justice fighter, this 3 can be mistaken for an 8. The core fears are of failure, being incapable or unable to do, inefficient, being second best, unmasked, fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, deviance, uncertainty, being targeted, chaos, weakness, being controlled, disempowered, humiliated, being vulnerable, and being at the mercy of injustice.


    Edit: Re: feeling like I don't belong... I feel like an alien sometimes, at one point literally, and looked for a group that focused on the issues of being an alien being in this world. A bunch of people who felt special and unique from each other and the rest of the world but we all got along great and it felt almost like family. There were some conflicts but not of a human nature. lol
    Last edited by Aylen; 09-21-2015 at 06:44 PM.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Nu-uh!
    Well, to be fair, you do throw some pebbles now and then. I have not seen any rocks, yet, but I will stay out of your way if you bring out the boulders. An IEI with a boulder...

    I poke people for reaction all the time but I do not have a 6 in my tritype. Irl I know how they will respond and it is so predictable and funny.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Well, to be fair, you do throw some pebbles now and then. I have not seen any rocks, yet, but I will stay out of your way if you bring out the boulders. An IEI with a boulder...

    I poke people for reaction all the time but I do not have a 6 in my tritype. Irl I know how they will respond and it is so predictable and funny.
    I spoke about why I do it in the male hierarchy thread, but it could have been a post defacto rationalization. However the throw rocks thing, I think I was talking about effecting change. If youre not throwing rocks theres no reason for people to listen to you unless they want to. Throw rocks.

    Personally though, I dont do it to get a rise out of people. I poke people because I genuinely think being sensitive about stuff isnt healthy and the only way to develop thicker skin is to get desensitized to it.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    I spoke about why I do it in the male hierarchy thread, but it could have been a post defacto rationalization. However the throw rocks thing, I think I was talking about effecting change. If youre not throwing rocks theres no reason for people to listen to you unless they want to. Throw rocks.

    Personally though, I dont do it to get a rise out of people. I poke people because I genuinely think being sensitive about stuff isnt healthy and the only way to develop thicker skin is to get desensitized to it.
    Ahh, I wonder if I missed that post, probably. I would like to read more about this 6 thing with poking, because I seem to be surrounded by people with 6 in their tritype. I usually feel people out to see how far I can go. I don't think I am trying to change anything but more like making someone aware of something.

    I am learning new skills all the time. I am not particularly sensitive, anymore, since some of my friends took care of that, but sometimes someone knows which buttons to push. I don't like giving people the satisfaction of knowing they got under my skin so I may hold back a bit when responding. If I react instead of respond it is a whole different story.

    When it comes to "rocks" I usually tell people to kick them, or eat them. Depending on my mood.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    spoiled things
    I get this way w/ old school groups. The prospect of visiting my old high school mortifies me, because I expect all the teachers who are still there to see me and make a hubbub about my being there. I've always hated the idea of "catching up." If we've fallen out of contact, then it probably means there wasn't much keeping us connected in the first place other than physical proximity. The number of people I've ever wanted to actively keep in contact with has been vanishingly small. However this is probably much more of a non-so thing. Oh well.
    Last edited by Galen; 09-21-2015 at 08:23 PM.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    I initially self-typed sp/sx, until I learned that sx encompassed much more than sexuality, and saw the way I approached exercise and substances as a shining exemplar of it... and I'm not sure to what extent self-typing sx-primary influenced or enabled more explosive/self-destructive behaviors/lifestyles, but whatever, it's resonated since.

    in general I tend to float about the periphery in anticipation (I attribute part of this to Se dual-seeking -- the impulse has to be complete or doesn't exist), and as soon as I catch wind of something remotely interesting/stimulating, I go all in. it's kind of nice, I've never really minded living in such black-and-white terms... and even though my sp is last, I can always say no or 'turn off' if I need to... impetuous absolutes, more or less.

    I've also noticed that as part of this, my impulses tend to sometimes become compartmentalized. like I can have a relationship that I'm completely engrossed in, but as soon as something feels off or a variable changes, it immediately gets 'boxed in' to another reality and another pursuit/impulse (possible temporarily, possibly not) takes its place. being Ni/Se might influence this as well (its temporality tends to be a bit more 'segmented' than that of Ne/Si).
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    It really seems like the easiest long-term relationship I had was not with my dual (who is sp/sx I believe), but with another sx-first person (SLE). Move aside, Socionics. When it comes to compatibility, enneagram is where it's at.
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
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    Doesn't everyone obsess over their lover when they're in a relationship? I don't think this is exclusive to sx first, I think it's just human nature. I'm sp first, and when I'm in a relationship it often becomes my whole world and the only thing I can ever think about (and I fucking hate it).

    The only difference is that I'm extremely picky and would rather be single for long periods of time than just attach myself to (or even sleep with) some random person. I can only be with someone if I really deeply feel it, and that connection doesn't come with just anyone... it's extremely special to me. When I'm not in a relationship, I'm basically asexual until I find this person by chance (I never go looking for love). When I do fall in love, I lock on and can only see them, and it's very difficult for me to break away from this person, even if they've turned out to be toxic. I will spend years in a shitty relationship because of this, whereas most people would have broken it off and quickly moved on. I think this is a quality of sp/sx in particular. We will live in a burning house, even if it's killing us; that is how loyal and exclusive our level of bonds are.

    I think sx firsts more or less constantly have to be in a relationship or a fling, or at least looking for love. They also seem to be able to fall in love and connect and attach to others on a deep level very easily. A lot of them seem to have a glowing energy that others are drawn to as well, and they draw in many admirers because of how easily they can seduce and open up people's cores. They can't be single or have a dry spell for long, otherwise they'll go insane or be extremely unhappy. They always have to have a connection to something or someone.
    Last edited by fox; 08-03-2016 at 01:14 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    Doesn't everyone obsess over their lover when they're in a relationship? I don't think this is exclusive to sx first, I think it's just human nature. I'm sp first, and when I'm in a relationship it often becomes my whole world and the only thing I can ever think about (and I fucking hate it).

    The only difference is that I'm extremely picky and would rather be single for long periods of time than just attach myself to some random person. I can only be with someone if I really deeply feel it, and that connection doesn't come with just anyone... it's extremely special to me. When I do fall in love, I lock on and can only see them, and it's very difficult for me to break away from this person, even if they've turned out to be toxic. I will spend years in a shitty relationship because of this, whereas most people would have broken it off and quickly moved on. I think this is a quality of sp/sx in particular.

    I think sx firsts more or less constantly have to be in a relationship or a fling, or at least looking for love. They also seem to be able to fall in love and connect to others very easily. They can't be single for long, otherwise they'll go crazy.
    Sx firsts are extremely picky for the reasons i've stated above. Sx firsts dont constantly have to be in a relationship. Like i said, it doesnt bring me any joy if im not feeling that this person is special. But when I dont have someone (im in love with), i feel empty.
    When I do fall in love, I lock on and can only see them, and it's very difficult for me to break away from this person, even if they've turned out to be toxic. I will spend years in a shitty relationship because of this, whereas most people would have broken it off and quickly moved on. I think this is a quality of sp/sx in particular.
    That's sx first. sp/sx want to always have someone regardless if they feel something special for them. Of course they like to be in love like anyone else, but theyre more practical, and likes to always have physical(sp) intimicy (for example, giving up a long distance relationship for another local person, because physical intimacy). sx often wants to maintain it no matter how shitty or abusive, or unpractical it is, because they dont want to lose the connection and spark they have. They feel like they will never love again.

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    I'm sp/sx and relate a lot to starfall.

    Sp/sx - They are slow to commit, but once they do it is with an attitude of life commitment, to the establishment of an impermeable bond. Others can be taken aback by how suddenly and completely this type can lock into them, and by the depth of understanding of the other's condition.

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    I tend to think that sx firsts can be more fickle in their attempt to find and maintain that elusive spark, while sp firsts can latch on fiercely, more concerned with roots and a sense of "home" and continuity. (i don't think this translates into propensity to cheat or anything like that.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    I tend to think that sx firsts can be more fickle in their attempt to find and maintain that elusive spark, while sp firsts can latch on fiercely, more concerned with roots and a sense of "home" and continuity. (i don't think this translates into propensity to cheat or anything like that.)
    That has more to do with what kind of attachment triad you are than instinct.
    http://www.fitzel.ca/enneagram/ObjectRelns.html
    Sx firsts are more aware of attraction and spark, though. That is what sx is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    Sx firsts are extremely picky for the reasons i've stated above. Sx firsts dont constantly have to be in a relationship. Like i said, it doesnt bring me any joy if im not feeling that this person is special. But when I dont have someone (im in love with), i feel empty.

    That's sx first. sp/sx want to always have someone regardless if they feel something special for them. Of course they like to be in love like anyone else, but theyre more practical, and likes to always have physical(sp) intimicy (for example, giving up a long distance relationship for another local person, because physical intimacy). sx often wants to maintain it no matter how shitty or abusive, or unpractical it is, because they dont want to lose the connection and spark they have. They feel like they will never love again.
    No, absolutely not. As an sp/sx I don't relate at all.

    I relate more to maintaining a shitty relationship because I don't want to lose the deep connection and I maintain the attitude that I will never have feelings for anyone again when I cut it off. I'm not sx first.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    No, absolutely not. As an sp/sx I don't relate at all.

    I relate more to maintaining a shitty relationship because I don't want to lose the connection. I'm not sx first.
    What you're saying is in line with sx first and not sp/sx. Why do you think youre not sx first?
    Last edited by maniac; 08-03-2016 at 01:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    What you're saying is in line with sx first and not sp/sx. Why do you think youre not sx first?
    I don't really have a strong presence like sx firsts do, I don't attract and repel people like an sx first would either. I find that with sx firsts, people either love you or hate you. I find that most people are quite neutral towards me.

    Plus, it's quite clear that I'm sp first. I'm unlikely to take risks if it means comprimizing my own sense of comfort. For example, I'd love nothing more but to travel the world and live a nomadic lifestyle, but my fear of something bad happening and not having a safe nest to return home to prevents me from doing such a thing. I'm more about preserving my nest. This does not translate into my love life, though.

    I also believe that I have a stronger sense of pride and control than most sx firsts in that I better controll myself from acting out on crazy impulses, even if I'm burning inside... unless of course, I'm drunk or under the influence of another substance, but in order to prevent that I don't drink; I'd rather take something to numb the feeling away.
    Last edited by fox; 08-03-2016 at 06:57 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    Doesn't everyone obsess over their lover when they're in a relationship? I don't think this is exclusive to sx first, I think it's just human nature.
    in the past i've always become deeply obsessive with all of my thoughts and feelings coming to revolve around the other person... and i definitely don't want to lose him, ever. i may have changed this about myself by now though, i don't know, in part because i decided it was abnormal... but mainly i'm tired of the suffering it causes and i just don't want to do it again... but i won't really know until next time (if there is a next time).

    generally though i'm not actively looking for someone to do be with (i am *rarely* in a relationship) and i move that aspect entirely into my mind/fantasy life. i suppose i did that originally to cope because after i lost the first person i was with romantically i (dramatically) just didn't want to live anymore. the first year after was full of intense suffering and longing and every day was painful. no one else could ever be him, and so i wasn't interested in anyone. the year after that was more a milder background pain and that was when i started using fictional characters to break the rest of the connection.

    it took a long time to get over, so long that once i was finally free of that attachment it stuck out as a terrible lesson. and i remember the moment the attachment finally let me go (it felt like *it* was letting *me* go), i saw it (it=all those feelings through the years) come out of me and disappear through my bedroom window, and it was like i had been under this choke hold for so long and could finally breathe again. i don't want to repeat that sort of experience/ordeal ever again. however, the obsessive pattern has reemerged a couple times (it's amazing how once in a relationship, i flip into this... it's almost like i become an sx first?), and i've spent a lot of time working on myself to prevent this from recurring. too much of me becomes merged with the other person and it costs me too much after they leave.

    i type sp-first because of my need for sanctuary where no one can intrude on my privacy or alone-time. because instincts are so confusing, i've considered other stacks, like so/sp... it all depends on interpretation. i don't really relate to the intense lifestyle interpretation of sx, so if that is what it is, it may be sx last while i'm just relationally obsessive. the only way i would live a more intense lifestyle would probably be if it was initiated by a romantic partner, but i crave things from the underground in general, and i am attracted to the "intense lifestyle" in my mind (i'm deliberately being vague). my preference of hiding from the world seems kind of sp first to me--but depending on interpretation it could be socially maladaptive so-first.

    one interpretation of sx-first can be that they actually go through a lot of partners because they first and foremost are seeking an intense connection, and simply because every relationship is intense doesn't mean it's the kind of ideal connection they are after (the idealism can lead to always seeking ever more intensity?). i'd also expect more of an intense push-pull in relationships than what i do--i'm more "boring," stable and devotional. i think that sp-first could be more likely to hang onto one person and one deep connection for dear life: "i can't live without *you* in particular" sort of obsessive thing.

    my emotional well-being (sp) depends on this connection (sx) ?
    Last edited by inumbra; 08-03-2016 at 06:35 PM.

  37. #37
    maniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    I don't really have a strong presence like sx firsts do, I don't attract and repel people like an sx first would either. I find that with sx firsts, people either love you or hate you. I find that most people are quite neutral towards me.
    This idea i've found is not accurate. There are many celebrities that arent sx first that have a strong presence (8s in particular) and repels and attracts people strongly. Take Donald Trump for example, sp/so, people either love him or hate him. Mostly hate but yeah. And there are sx firsts that are 'likeable' that dont make a really strong impression, too. I also think it depends on how open and talkative you are.

    Plus, it's quite clear that I'm sp first. I'm unlikely to take risks if it means comprimizing my own sense of comfort. For example, I'd love nothing more but to travel the world and live a nomadic lifestyle, but my fear of something bad happening and not having a safe nest to return home to prevents me from doing such a thing. I'm more about preserving my nest. This does not translate into my love life, though.
    This sounds like sp yeah.

    I also believe that I have a stronger sense of pride and control than most sx firsts in that I better controll myself from acting out on crazy impulses, even if I'm burning inside... unless of course, I'm drunk or under the influence of another substance, but in order to prevent that I don't drink, I'd rather take something to numb the feeling away.
    I can control myself form acting out on impulses. Not really when romantic feelings are involved. Anyway, if you feel like that is what you is, that's awesome. I don't know you so I can't tell what you are.
    It just sounded like sx from what yoou said initialy. I guess it depends on your type too.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    The only difference is that I'm extremely picky and would rather be single for long periods of time than just attach myself to (or even sleep with) some random person. I can only be with someone if I really deeply feel it, and that connection doesn't come with just anyone... it's extremely special to me. When I'm not in a relationship, I'm basically asexual until I find this person by chance (I never go looking for love). When I do fall in love, I lock on and can only see them, and it's very difficult for me to break away from this person, even if they've turned out to be toxic. I will spend years in a shitty relationship because of this, whereas most people would have broken it off and quickly moved on. I think this is a quality of sp/sx in particular. We will live in a burning house, even if it's killing us; that is how loyal and exclusive our level of bonds are.
    This is exactly like me and something that I associate with sx/sp rather than sp/sx. However, having said that, I trust your typing of yourself and if you think you are sp/sx I have no reason to doubt that. So, maybe sx/sp and sp/sx can be very similar in this way? Or maybe I'm actually sp/sx (although I would doubt it)?

  39. #39
    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    I am curious to hear what made you sx-firsts determine that you are, in fact, sx first?
    Hopeless romanticism.

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    maniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by epheme View Post
    This is exactly like me and something that I associate with sx/sp rather than sp/sx. However, having said that, I trust your typing of yourself and if you think you are sp/sx I have no reason to doubt that. So, maybe sx/sp and sp/sx can be very similar in this way? Or maybe I'm actually sp/sx (although I would doubt it)?
    No, it is more sx. Im not sure of the difference in women and men. The only sp/sx for sure, that Ive spoken to have been men, and they are the way i said in my posts. An sp/sx friend of mine has commitment issues and doesn't like being tied down to one person. Not for long, anyways. He is in his 50s and has never been married. But he likes to sleep around alot and have open relationships with no intense feelings. Another sp/sx friend, has no issue with committing, but he will leave the relationship if it's getting too unhealthy and draining. Not saying that sp/sx wouldnt want an intense bond like that, but they're more practical and realistic. Whereas sx wants to commit fast and hard which can scare people off, if we don't control ourselves. Starfalls is more close to sx because she puts sx before sp, literally.
    It may be that sx first is more common with women. It wouldnt surprise me.
    Last edited by maniac; 08-08-2016 at 09:13 AM.

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