So I filled out the 80 question questionnaire (muddytextures)

[The Exception]

]So this is a summary of have I understand the cognitive styles, in a nutshell:

D-A: Manipulative, paradoxical, black and white thinking, inclined towards religion

I'm often think in paradoxes but the rest doesn't fit.

C-D: Focused, rigid, easy to influence

It depends. I can be this way sometimes. I can especially be focused when it's something really interesting.

H-P: Stubborn, multi-perspective, difficult to influence

Definitely multi-perspective, I'm always doing that. I can be stubborn too sometimes and sometimes difficult to influence. I kind of alternate between easy to influence and difficult to influence.

V-S: Chaotic, optimistic, not set back by failure

I'm typically more ordered than I am chaotic. I can be optimistic about some things, pessimistic about others. Failures tend to discourage me from trying again although if I want something bad enough I will keep going.

I think H-P probably fits me best overall, followed by C-D.

[Muddy]

Although there are lot of things that match up with LII I am still not at all convinced that I am a rational type. Too much stability is suffocating to me and causes me to become depressed and apathetic. I become more energized, alert and fulfilled in times of chaos and rapid changes. On a calm sunny day I will do nothing but sleep out of boredom but I will become active during a record storm. I find both rules and morality to be annoying and a throne in my side. I dislike working for the common good rather then myself. I never make plans and couldn't care less whether I stick to them or not. I feel more friction when I interact with j-types then p-types. I often fantasize about apocalyptic scenarios and feel as if I am an agent of chaos and destruction.

[The Exception]

Although there are lot of things that match up with LII I am still not at all convinced that I am a rational type. Too much stability is suffocating to me and causes me to become depressed and apathetic. I become more energized, alert and fulfilled in times of chaos and rapid changes. On a calm sunny day I will do nothing but sleep out of boredom but I will become active during a record storm. I find both rules and morality to be annoying and a throne in my side. I dislike working for the common good rather then myself. I never make plans and couldn't care less whether I stick to them or not. I feel more friction when I interact with j-types then p-types. I often fantasize about apocalyptic scenarios and feel as if I am an agent of chaos and destruction.

Yeah, that sounds way more irrational than rational. Also add the fact that you find morality to be annoying and you have likely Fi PoLR.

You could be an introverted subtype of ILE.

[Myst]

Although there are lot of things that match up with LII I am still not at all convinced that I am a rational type. Too much stability is suffocating to me and causes me to become depressed and apathetic. I become more energized, alert and fulfilled in times of chaos and rapid changes. On a calm sunny day I will do nothing but sleep out of boredom but I will become active during a record storm. I find both rules and morality to be annoying and a throne in my side. I dislike working for the common good rather then myself. I never make plans and couldn't care less whether I stick to them or not. I feel more friction when I interact with j-types then p-types. I often fantasize about apocalyptic scenarios and feel as if I am an agent of chaos and destruction.

Figure out if SEI or ESE is your dual.

[Myst]

Although there are lot of things that match up with LII I am still not at all convinced that I am a rational type. Too much stability is suffocating to me and causes me to become depressed and apathetic. I become more energized, alert and fulfilled in times of chaos and rapid changes. On a calm sunny day I will do nothing but sleep out of boredom but I will become active during a record storm. I find both rules and morality to be annoying and a throne in my side. I dislike working for the common good rather then myself. I never make plans and couldn't care less whether I stick to them or not. I feel more friction when I interact with j-types then p-types. I often fantasize about apocalyptic scenarios and feel as if I am an agent of chaos and destruction.

Another thing. I always see you as providing reasoning for your thoughts. ILEs don't really do this so consistently. So I am wondering if this here just means your life circumstances are too boring. The question is, how often do you act on these spontaneous desires of yours. Is it more like you don't act on them for too long and then you do like to shake up things, or do you constantly act on them? The former would be more consistent with LII>ILE. Also, IJ's like to try and put chaos under control, what is the reason for you liking chaos, this or a different reason?

[Muddy]

Another thing. I always see you as providing reasoning for your thoughts. ILEs don't really do this so consistently. So I am wondering if this here just means your life circumstances are too boring. The question is, how often do you act on these spontaneous desires of yours. Is it more like you don't act on them for too long and then you do like to shake up things, or do you constantly act on them? The former would be more consistent with LII>ILE. Also, IJ's like to try and put chaos under control, what is the reason for you liking chaos, this or a different reason?

Yeah my life right now is rather void of fun and excitement, which is something I want to change. Do I like to try to control chaos? IDK, all I can see is changing situations raise my energy and vitality, while the mundane needs of life such as daily work drain it. I like chaos because because I often feel like my inner desires are shackled by rules and societal expectations, and in periods of chaos nobody cares about small things anymore so you are free to do what you want. The best way to describe how I feel right now would simply be suppressed.


ESE vs SEI, hmmm. I can't say for sure I know any ESEs closely so it is difficult for me to give an evaluation regarding them. From what I read they seem like a lovable type but I'm skeptical that my dual would be part of the busy busy Ej temperament. Some sources say they can be quite strict about making sure everyone is behaving correctly which is not something I think would go to well with me. I would rather be someone who is relaxed and doesn't take things too seriously. As a side note I noticed I tend to get along the smoothest with Fe creatives. Pretty much all my female friends have been either SEI or IEI. (My males friends are of much more variable types, ranging from mostly LII, ILE, EIE, SLE, LIE, SLI, LSI)

[Myst]

Yeah my life right now is rather void of fun and excitement, which is something I want to change. Do I like to try to control chaos? IDK, all I can see is changing situations raise my energy and vitality, while the mundane needs of life such as daily work drain it. I like chaos because because I often feel like my inner desires are shackled by rules and societal expectations, and in periods of chaos nobody cares about small things anymore so you are free to do what you want. The best way to describe how I feel right now would simply be suppressed.

OK I can't really tell much from this...

ESE vs SEI, hmmm. I can't say for sure I know any ESEs closely so it is difficult for me to give an evaluation regarding them. From what I read they seem like a lovable type but I'm skeptical that my dual would be part of the busy busy Ej temperament. Some sources say they can be quite strict about making sure everyone is behaving correctly which is not something I think would go to well with me. I would rather be someone who is relaxed and doesn't take things too seriously. As a side note I noticed I tend to get along the smoothest with Fe creatives. Pretty much all my female friends have been either SEI or IEI. (My males friends are of much more variable types, ranging from mostly LII, ILE, EIE, SLE, LIE, SLI, LSI)

Ah, why is Fe creative the smoothest for you? How do you behave around/with them?

[Muddy]

Well I a finally got a started a new job ( Best Buy) where I met new people and I finally got some real experience with ESE. One of the co-workers was a very obvious ESE-Fe and she helped me on my first day in a way that was most charming. During lunch I was trying to get a soda from the vending machine but it wasn't working. Without me asking she went out of her way to show me where the other drinks were and she used her employer ID to discount the prices for me. ESE may very well be my dual.

(or at the very least not my supervisor or conflictor )

[Muddy]

I've been getting discover a little more about myself now that I'm at work and interacting with a variety of people instead of just sitting at home alone and having to theorizing how I would be in what situations. First and foremost I've noticed I am a lot more controlled in my behavior then most other people. I never ramble loudly or try to make fun of other people without their consent unlike some of the other people I've been with. I've also noticed I like to chunk all work related things together into a single time frame so I can be completely undisturbed on my free time. When I'm at work I focus completely on the work so I can hurry up and get the shit done so I can get out of work sooner. However when there is nothing to do I gladly take the opportunity to chill, perhaps this Si hidden agenda with devalued Te since I seem to be hardworking on the outside but it's only because I want to get to not do work sooner and relax? When I'm at home relaxed and playing my games or whatever bitches had better not disturb me with chores.

[Myst]

I've been getting discover a little more about myself now that I'm at work and interacting with a variety of people instead of just sitting at home alone and having to theorizing how I would be in what situations. First and foremost I've noticed I am a lot more controlled in my behavior then most other people. I never ramble loudly or try to make fun of other people without their consent unlike some of the other people I've been with. I've also noticed I like to chunk all work related things together into a single time frame so I can be completely undisturbed on my free time. When I'm at work I focus completely on the work so I can hurry up and get the shit done so I can get out of work sooner. However when there is nothing to do I gladly take the opportunity to chill, perhaps this Si hidden agenda with devalued Te since I seem to be hardworking on the outside but it's only because I want to get to not do work sooner and relax? When I'm at home relaxed and playing my games or whatever bitches had better not disturb me with chores.

So, sounds like 4D Ti/1D Fe indeed. If you still really like that ESE then LII it is

The only other real possibility is SLI, of course.

[Myst]

@Muddytextures

Remember you asked me if I see 4D Ne or not in your posts. I said nope not yet. Now I can say, yes, I do.

I reviewed a bit of your 80q, definitely seems like 1D Fi and 2D Fe and not the other way around.

I'm now more sure on ILE than ever before.

But if you decided on LII as a final type, do let me know why.

[Muddy]

@Muddytextures

Remember you asked me if I see 4D Ne or not in your posts. I said nope not yet. Now I can say, yes, I do.

I reviewed a bit of your 80q, seems like 1D Fi and 2D Fe and not the other way around.

And I was just about ready to get comfy with being LII. Oh well.

Anyway, care to highlight key points?

[Myst]

And I was just about ready to get comfy with being LII. Oh well.

Anyway, care to highlight key points?

Lol.


1D Fi (whatever parts I didn't quote are just simply devalued low-dimensional Fi for the most part):

"Boorsishness is when someone acts like an asshole. Yes I would say my understanding more or less fits the accepted notion. I would tell the kid it means being inconsiderate of others. To adult I would say it means being an asshole."

Does not meet norms level of understanding. Unawareness of not meeting them.

"The one and only norm I follow and expect others to follow is to not be an asshole. The world would be wonderful if there where no assholes."

And again, lol. Also, thinking that one single approach will solve everything.

"8. How do you know what attitude among people is right or wrong?

I do not understand this question to be honest."

1D Fail.

"I get a painful feeling inside and might even get angry if it is bad enough. I somethings give off a negative attitude when someone annoys me alot although I try to keep it in check. I wouldn't be vindictive towards others and I would forgive others easily provided they stopped giving me a bad attitude."

Hints of Fe HA (bolded) with the Fi PoLR.


2D Fe (the rest is again just low-dimensional superid Fe):

"I think shallow emotions are an act rather then genuine expression. The other emotions would be deep ones I guess."

"Any emotion that is fitting for the situation is good and bad if it isn't."

(Though I myself said that but I was thinking of "specific situation", while you seem more general.)

"Maybe a little bit, I can go from feeling nostalgic to feeling more upbeat depending I'm what I'm thinking. I don't think I'm very good at influencing others emotions other then playing around with them."

"Pouring out your emotions means you expressing strongly how you actually feel. I happens whenever you feel strongly moved by something."

"I can recognize what kind of mood in at any point in time and I can easily recognize what mood someone else is in."


And what I said about Se role earlier.

[ghost of forum past]

I have not seen much that would imply LII for you over any other type. This doesn't mean that you're not LII, only that you're not "confirm & final" in my mind (which doesn't really matter anyways). You have said that you don't relate much to being a rational type in the Socionics sense? You could be a LII that is not particularly rational, or an ILE that is not particularly sociable.

Edit: @Myst presents a good case for an ILE, presumably with a low social instinct. There's also ILI if you aren't completely set on being Alpha. Remember that having pleasant interaction with your conflictor is indeed possible - problems present themselves at closer distances.

[Muddy]

I have not seen much that would imply LII for you over any other type. This doesn't mean that you're not LII, only that you're not "confirm & final" in my mind (which doesn't really matter anyways). You have said that you don't relate much to being a rational type in the Socionics sense? You could be a LII that is not particularly rational, or an ILE that is not particularly sociable.

Edit: @Myst presents a good case for an ILE, presumably with a low social instinct. There's also ILI if you aren't completely set on being Alpha. Remember that having pleasant interaction with your conflictor is indeed possible - problems present themselves at closer distances.

I'm not really considering ILI anymore because the gamma quadra types feel really alien to me. I'm much more of loose, anything goes kind of guy and don't relate to the seriousness and materialism present in gamma. I think I'm Ni devaluing because I'm not at all worried about my future, I'll handle things as they come and thats that. Interestingly though I relate to description of Ni bases being self-absorbed and detached with the physical world around them. Perhaps that may be the result of being a harmonizing subtype?

I do think Se role works because I do partially see the value of Se, although only on a very superficial level. I do feel the conscious need sometimes to not be too much of a wimp and to be able handle myself.

Most Fi aspects on the other hand feel completely pointless. I feel zero need to make moral contributions to society. In all honestly I could not care less if the rest of the world just disappeared as long as I have everything I need to live and be happy.

[Myst]

I'm not really considering ILI anymore because the gamma quadra types feel really alien to me. I'm much more of loose, anything goes kind of guy and don't relate to the seriousness and materialism present in gamma. I think I'm Ni devaluing because I'm not at all worried about my future, I'll handle things as they come and thats that. Interestingly though I relate to description of Ni bases being self-absorbed and detached with the physical world around them. Perhaps that may be the result of being a harmonizing subtype?

I do think Se role works because I do partially see the value of Se, although only on a very superficial level. I do feel the conscious need sometimes to not be too much of a wimp and to be able handle myself.

Most Fi aspects on the other hand feel completely pointless. I feel zero need to make moral contributions to society. In all honestly I could not care less if the rest of the world just disappeared as long as I have everything I need to live and be happy.

OK... you got anything that's really against ILE?

[Muddy]

OK... you got anything that's really against ILE?

Well I'm VERY reserved which doesn't seem to match up with being an extrovert. Not just reserved socially but also in the number of activites I engage in which is pretty much limited to stuff I'm familiar with. Other people often take notice of my shyness. Secondly I think I know my boundaries a lot more then other ILEs I observe which say these off the wall things 24/7. Thirdly I don't really feel supervised by EII.

[Myst]

Well I'm VERY reserved which doesn't seem to match up with being an extrovert. Not just reserved socially but also in the number of activites I engage in which is pretty much limited to stuff I'm familiar with. Other people often take notice of my shyness. Secondly I think I know my boundaries a lot more then other ILEs I observe which say these off the wall things 24/7. Thirdly I don't really feel supervised by EII.

You used to be more extraverted until whatever incident happened at school - but were you like ILE>LII back then or simply an LII with more extraverted behaviour?

[Muddy]

You used to be more extraverted until whatever incident happened at school - but were you like ILE>LII back then or simply an LII with more extraverted behaviour?

The main difference between now and then was that I was more oblivious to what others thought about me then I am now. One thing that has constant however was my aversion to mass groups. In small groups (workplace, family, clubs etc.) I usually get along with other people really well and am well liked by almost everyone I meet. In big crowds (schools, stadiums, etc) however I feel smothered and I get the sense that others get the misconception that I am cold, uncaring and self-absorbed. I become more sociable around others who are less sociable, and I become less sociable around others who are more sociable. In other words, I hate dealing with people who always try to dominate socially, unless of course they so in order to spread kindness. I have the reserve and caution of LII but I also have the lack of conscientiousness and carefree nature of ILE.

[Myst]

The main difference between now and then was that I was more oblivious to what others thought about me then I am now. One thing that has constant however was my aversion to mass groups. In small groups (workplace, family, clubs etc.) I usually get along with other people really well and am well liked by almost everyone I meet. In big crowds (schools, stadiums, etc) however I feel smothered and I get the sense that others get the misconception that I am cold, uncaring and self-absorbed. I become more sociable around others who are less sociable, and I become less sociable around others who are more sociable. In other words, I hate dealing with people who always try to dominate socially, unless of course they so in order to spread kindness. I have the reserve and caution of LII but I also have the lack of conscientiousness and carefree nature of ILE.

Hmm ok. Are you going to ever get into how the information elements play out for you in model A? I'm not sure I see the point to typing based on personality traits like that.

[Muddy]

Hmm ok. Are you going to ever get into how the information elements play out for you in model A? I'm not sure I see the point to typing based on personality traits like that.

Actually I already got into model A way back in the beginning but didn't find anything definitive. Maybe there is something I am missing? I already read through this, is there anything else?

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-of-the-Psyche