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    Default dual approach strategies

    hey

    sry for making another dual thread. basically, i'm in a life situation right now where i meet a lot of duals regularly (tips for SEI's... try switching into tech.) and some of the ones I see on my periphery day to day seem interesting, or attractive. however, none of my friends or people who speak to me/ ppl I talk to regularly are ILE's. it still feels like i have to trap one in the corner to get that person to notice me. unless there's some longterm relating, the connection feels more tenuous than usual- we can have a good conversation, but they still don't see me as a friend (while more easily befriending others).

    I feel embarrassed making this thread b/c... well, broken record, plus i've known so many duals, and I know firsthand that duality doesn't always make for positive relating. but... i don't know, i'm getting older, i'm tired from feeling destabilized in relating to people, I do want to try to find someone with deeper romantic relationship potential who seems... safe, communication-problem-free, and not boring. if there's one that actually seems cool (and... non-insane...)*, how do I get them to notice me?

    and "becoming hotter" is not an option.

    ps i'm picky, i actually truly like very few ppl, dual or otherwise. :/ so the issue is that i want to have more agency and control rather than passively waiting for people that come to me.*

    *maybe it's a lost cause
    Last edited by lemontrees; 09-11-2015 at 04:18 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    hey

    sry for making another dual thread. basically, i'm in a life situation right now where i meet a lot of duals regularly (tips for SEI's... try switching into tech.) and some of the ones I see on my periphery day to day seem interesting, or attractive. however, none of my friends or people who speak to me/ ppl I talk to regularly are ILE's. it still feels like i have to trap one in the corner to get that person to notice me. unless there's some longterm relating, the connection feels more tenuous than usual- we can have a good conversation, but they still don't see me as a friend (while more easily befriending others).

    I feel embarrassed making this thread b/c... well, broken record, plus i've known so many duals, and I know firsthand that duality doesn't always make for positive relating. but... i don't know, i'm getting older, i'm tired from feeling destabilized in relating to people, I do want to try to find someone with deeper romantic relationship potential who seems... safe, communication-problem-free, and not boring. if there's one that actually seems cool (and... non-insane...)*, how do I get them to notice me?

    and "becoming hotter" is not an option.

    ps i'm picky, i actually truly like very few ppl, dual or otherwise. :/ so the issue is that i want to have more agency and control rather than passively waiting for people that come to me.*

    *maybe it's a lost cause
    A bit of patience definitely. It can take a while to get closer and really start with the duality stuff. My suggestions, run into those ILEs more often "by accident", find opportunities to spend time together. Any mutual interests? Throw delicious homemade cookies at them regularly? lol

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    Seconded re: patience and persistently talking.
    Reason is a whore.

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    i feel like this will be unhelpful, because you probably already know ILEs well: but i've had good responses from ILE guys using touch. even just one small, soft, affectionate touch of some kind, combined with an affectionate/flirty smile can really get their attention, if you didn't already have it. they can really perk up and notice you more after you do that. make sure it's done so they know it's not an accident. also be sure to display openness, and approach them with familiarity and friendliness. definitely do not be stiff, formal, judgmental, or close-minded - pretty sure these things are generally turn-offs for ILE.

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    Seriously though, from my limited experience with ILEs (my bf), they definitely appreciate openness and touch as glam suggested. If you want to have more control instead of waiting for them to approach you, maybe ask them for help with something? Also, I don't think ILE's care much about the typical dating game "script" and would likely be thrilled if a cute girl asked them out for coffee/mini-golf/whatever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    we can have a good conversation, but they still don't see me as a friend (while more easily befriending others)
    You may do other things together too. People have different interests where you may join them. I think, if something long and meaningful can to be - reciprocal interest will appear in a short time, while in other case it's not your human (dual or not).

    duality doesn't always make for positive relating
    Duality generally gives sympathy and among IR has most probability for good long relations like close friendship and marriage. Just one of important factors.

    i'm tired from feeling destabilized in relating to people, I do want to try to find someone with deeper romantic relationship potential who seems... safe, communication-problem-free, and not boring
    To use typology to find your pair is doubtful way for most, as in many cases opinions about types are wrong - opinions about types of other people and opinions about own types. Everyone I saw has match in typing <30%, hence they type badly. Try other ways. Listen your heart to find your pair. And probably you need to improve selfacceptness, so it become easier to find your people and be with them.

    how do I get them to notice me?
    If you like someone you may come to and talk about anything.

    maybe it's a lost cause
    We like those who likes us. To find your pair sometimes needs to improve something in youself. And to love others we need to love yourselves too, also this makes us more attractive and relations become easier. Fix other problems in your life, feel happier and in harmony with yourself, with the world, then it will be much easier to find your pair and make good relations.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    i feel like this will be unhelpful, because you probably already know ILEs well: but i've had good responses from ILE guys using touch. even just one small, soft, affectionate touch of some kind, combined with an affectionate/flirty smile can really get their attention, if you didn't already have it. they can really perk up and notice you more after you do that. make sure it's done so they know it's not an accident. also be sure to display openness, and approach them with familiarity and friendliness. definitely do not be stiff, formal, judgmental, or close-minded - pretty sure these things are generally turn-offs for ILE.
    Well, ILE is not my dual but I'm prettttty sure I know one and he tends to think my formality/stiffness is funny and will poke fun at me a lot, but not in a mean way and not in the annoying way that LSEs do. I think he's cool. Maybe he's not an ILE though. However his girlfriend is sweet and seems very ISFp!

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    Like you, I've know a lot of ILEs. They seem to be one of those types that are easy for me to make friends with, and there is virtually no effort involved... So, I was sitting here trying to remember how I actually did make friends with them and this is what I've realized: I've always been the one to take the initiative. Which is kind of weird, because that's not something I usually do.



    Thinking about the last friendship I made with an ILE may be helpful to you.


    The first time I ever spoke to him I was walking down the street on the phone with my now husband. ILE was walking near me. We weren't friends at the time, just walking to the same classroom. I got off the phone and was like, "I think I'm dating this guy but I'm not sure" to which ILE responded "I'm in a similar situation," lol. From there we started chatting about our weird relationship conundrums. I think somehow me saying this to him took him by surprise and made him feel at ease? I'm not really sure but he never spoke to me before that and after that he seemed comfortable talking to me about his girl woes. This also probably set it up, right off the bat, that this was going to be a strictly platonic relationship, which killed any pressure that would have been there (not that you necessarily want that).


    We had class together 5 days a week. A group of us would always go to lunch together. The ILE was a bit of an outlier. I thought he was cool so I'd be like "We're going to try this new Italian place, wanna come?" or "Are you eating in the cafeteria? Let's go check this other place out." Turns out, like most ILE, he loves food and trying new things. And he was also a bit of a wine connoisseur, so that helped. He never turned down an invite to lunch and after a while we'd go to lunch together just the two of us even if no one else was going to come.

    I also invited him to a lot of parties to which he never came, lol, but I think the main things are persistently inviting them places, even if it's just your table in the break room when you're having a coffee or water or whatever(making them feel welcomed), chit-chatting about whatever when you come across each other(showing you are interested in what they think) , and being friendly (which I know you can/will do in loads). Being friendly and welcoming and interested in others is universal to all types, but I think if you just continue to do this the ILEs will come around.

    Plus, how could they not love you lemontrees, you're adorable

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    lemontrees, I think you have a serious problem that you're going to have to work hard to solve. I think that ILE's are incredibly unfocused on what is good for them. They are like little kids, always looking for the next fun toy or idea to play with, and SEI's are like their mothers who take care of them. But the ILE's totally take the SEI's for granted, just as a happy little kid takes his mother's love for granted. That is the essential problem you have to overcome. You have to get the ILE to understand what his life is like with you, and what is it like without you, and he needs to choose the "with you" life. How you do that is beyond me, though. I'm Gamma, not Alpha.

    At work we have an unmarried male ILE in the same office with a married (but not dualized) SEI. I came back from a two-week vacation and stuck my head in the SEI's office and said "Hi, Jill. How's it going?" She said, "Adam, they broke us up! They moved (the ILE) to another office. Where were you when this was being planned?" Her boss apparently moved a new girl to be trained into her office and moved the ILE down the hall.
    I went to the ILE and asked him how he liked his new office. He was looking really unhappy, but he put on a happy face and said "It's fine. I can work anywhere." which was obviously bullshit.
    I went to her LSE boss and said, "I don't want to step on your toes, but I think you should move those two back into the same office."
    She said, "That doesn't make sense. The new girl needs to be close to Jill to be trained."
    I said, "Once the new girl is trained, you should consider moving them back. They are Duals, and they'll be happier and more productive if they share an office."
    The LSE replied, "I hear you, but your argument doesn't convince me. Anyway, they should just do their work no matter what, it's not like they can easily get better jobs."
    I said, "Listen to you. You just said you can abuse them because they can't run away." and then someone else walked into her office, so we couldn't discuss it any more, but I said "Think about it" as I was leaving.
    I walked past the SEI's office and she had an expression on her face like her kid had just been hit by a train. I think duality is bad only if you lose it.
    I talked to the ILE later that day, and he was still putting on a happy face. I asked him if he would go back to his old office if the opportunity arose, (to investigate whether he was missing Jill) and he said something about feeling that the move to his new office was not a professional move up. So, even with prompting, he is still in denial.
    I have hopes that I can pressure the LSE into eventually doing the right thing, but Lemontrees, I don't know how you can get an ILE to recognize or admit that he needs you.

    My best guess is that you will have to corner them, spend enough time with them to dualize, and then force them to marry you. They're probably not going to narrow their choices down to that without some serious prompting from you.
    After they've had a chance to see how good things are with you, just take them by the hand, and tell them, "This is the way it's going to be." That's my best guess, but remember, I'm only a Gamma, and you're going to know this stuff better than I do.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 09-27-2015 at 08:11 PM.

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    It occurs to me you're encountering these ILEs in an environment that's club oriented, not quadra oriented. This may be a significant part of your problem... you need some way to shift the social expectation toward the closer psychological distance of quadras before the natural smoothness of duality will kick in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    lemontrees, I think you have a serious problem that you're going to have to work hard to solve. I think that ILE's are incredibly unfocused on what is good for them. They are like little kids, always looking for the next fun toy or idea to play with, and SEI's are like their mothers who take care of them. But the ILE's totally take the SEI's for granted, just as a happy little kid takes his mother's love for granted. That is the essential problem you have to overcome. You have to get the ILE to understand what his life is like with you, and what is it like without you, and he needs to choose the "with you" life. How you do that is beyond me, though. I'm Gamma, not Alpha.
    This way: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Heart-and-Back
    Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Hey, Myst.
    Your first link has got to be the greatest contribution to the human race by a machine translator in a long, long time. I quote:

    The third step (forward): "I give you my unit!"
    When comes the stage of decision-making and partner exhibits passivity, it is necessary to activate it. To do this, select the aspects of this function, by which your friend will carry out your proposals unconsciously and without question. "There's a feature!" - Says socionics. This 6th function Model A. It is called a reference, because her work is focused on the immediate environment samples (representative of which can be in this case you). Driving your interactions here can be expressed in this way: you're talking about - it does. Just imagine how it will warm your heart! But here, more than ever requires extreme precision in selection expressions. The slightest deviation in the direction of strong language features - and your friend immediately wakes up and begins to make their own decisions. Then for a time control of the situation would be lost. And it is sad!


    Just what, I have to wonder, is going on here? It clearly needs more investigation, and while it might be dangerous, I volunteer.

    I like your second link a lot.
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ork-by-V-Meged
    It actually makes sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    hey

    sry for making another dual thread. basically, i'm in a life situation right now where i meet a lot of duals regularly (tips for SEI's... try switching into tech.) and some of the ones I see on my periphery day to day seem interesting, or attractive. however, none of my friends or people who speak to me/ ppl I talk to regularly are ILE's. it still feels like i have to trap one in the corner to get that person to notice me. unless there's some longterm relating, the connection feels more tenuous than usual- we can have a good conversation, but they still don't see me as a friend (while more easily befriending others).

    I feel embarrassed making this thread b/c... well, broken record, plus i've known so many duals, and I know firsthand that duality doesn't always make for positive relating. but... i don't know, i'm getting older, i'm tired from feeling destabilized in relating to people, I do want to try to find someone with deeper romantic relationship potential who seems... safe, communication-problem-free, and not boring. if there's one that actually seems cool (and... non-insane...)*, how do I get them to notice me?

    and "becoming hotter" is not an option.

    ps i'm picky, i actually truly like very few ppl, dual or otherwise. :/ so the issue is that i want to have more agency and control rather than passively waiting for people that come to me.*

    *maybe it's a lost cause
    Have you tried baking cookies for the office? How about inviting a few people to a casual gathering at your house and show off how cozy an environment you can cultivate.

    If you are just meeting people once or twice as part of your routine business you might have to ask them for their number!

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    @poops its's so nice to have you here

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    Thanks!

    Or is that sarcasm in reaction to me sexists remarks on SEI-ILE dualization.

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    Lol no not at all. It's nice to have another ILE

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    I think my cousin's son is ILE. He's busy being active and conscientious. Maybe you need to initiate the relationship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    That article. I read it and I sort of get it, but at the same time I can't help but feel kinda pissed off at it. I mean, if you want out of a relationship just say so instead of taking the concept of "be an asshole to make them break up with you instead" to a new level with weaponized psychology. I mean hell, it'd be almost traumatic for me if I fell for someone then, one day, they start acting not only unlike what I'm used to, but like someone I just can't stand to be around. What did I do wrong!? It was going so well and it's not like I cheated on her or anything so why is this happening?

    I don't think it'd always be the best idea. You could seriously traumatize someone by pulling that shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    hey

    sry for making another dual thread. basically, i'm in a life situation right now where i meet a lot of duals regularly (tips for SEI's... try switching into tech.) and some of the ones I see on my periphery day to day seem interesting, or attractive. however, none of my friends or people who speak to me/ ppl I talk to regularly are ILE's. it still feels like i have to trap one in the corner to get that person to notice me. unless there's some longterm relating, the connection feels more tenuous than usual- we can have a good conversation, but they still don't see me as a friend (while more easily befriending others).

    I feel embarrassed making this thread b/c... well, broken record, plus i've known so many duals, and I know firsthand that duality doesn't always make for positive relating. but... i don't know, i'm getting older, i'm tired from feeling destabilized in relating to people, I do want to try to find someone with deeper romantic relationship potential who seems... safe, communication-problem-free, and not boring. if there's one that actually seems cool (and... non-insane...)*, how do I get them to notice me?

    and "becoming hotter" is not an option.

    ps i'm picky, i actually truly like very few ppl, dual or otherwise. :/ so the issue is that i want to have more agency and control rather than passively waiting for people that come to me.*

    *maybe it's a lost cause
    ILEs are some of the easiest people to befriend IMO just go up and talk to them, make fun of yourself or them, throw a pie in their face,use offensive language. They'll most likely join in, even if you're a complete stranger. They are easy people to talk to about any problems you have too, most likely will offer some constructive advice about practical problems, eg how to get a job. Just don't try to control them or ask for more of their time than they're willing to give, that will trigger an escape reaction. And don't be a hypocrite when it comes to moral standards, they pick up on that really quickly and will form a lasting negative impression of you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    That article. I read it and I sort of get it, but at the same time I can't help but feel kinda pissed off at it. I mean, if you want out of a relationship just say so instead of taking the concept of "be an asshole to make them break up with you instead" to a new level with weaponized psychology. I mean hell, it'd be almost traumatic for me if I fell for someone then, one day, they start acting not only unlike what I'm used to, but like someone I just can't stand to be around. What did I do wrong!? It was going so well and it's not like I cheated on her or anything so why is this happening?

    I don't think it'd always be the best idea. You could seriously traumatize someone by pulling that shit.
    It's a joke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Person View Post
    @lemontrees I thought being the dual of your dual was the solution to approaching them, at the most fundamental level of what Socionics means. That's been my experience, *Confused* I have never had a problem approaching duals and talking to them. You simply need this easy advice: Don't stop while you're already there.
    I agree with this. Your natural behaviour should attract a Dual, given they are in your vicinity.

    If that does not happen, here are a couple of possible reasons why:


    1. You are engaging in your Super-Ego functions too much. Let out your Ego functions to the max. Show who you are, skip the superficial Super Ego-pretension.

    2. Those people are actually not your Duals, but your Conflictors. Sounds paradoxical, but this can truly happen. Especially from afar, Quasi-Identicals can seem very similar. Hence the term "Quasi-Identical". In your particular case, @lemontrees , "tech" can attract all kinds of NTs, including your Conflictors. Perhaps you have been trying to attract/get close to the "wrong" guys.

    3. You may be mistyped, and your "Duals" are actually your Conflictors (or a different type altogether).

    4. Usually tied to 3: You are actually not meeting your Duals. Go somewhere else, explore. What helps is going to a place you feel some kind of respect and admiration for, but would think you could never be that good at. In my case, that's MMA. I have respect for people who do MMA, but I very likely would suck at it myself, haha. I've still considered going to some MMA course someday...


    Whatever point applies to you, work at it. And then your issues should mostly be solved. If that does not work, then the real problem is simply something outside of Socionics.

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    FB wisdom strikes again. Just substitute "dual" for "soulmate".

    stepping stones...

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Attracting ILEs really requires an almost insane amount of consistency. IME pretty much any IXFx + EXTx dual pair involves the introvert taking the bulk of the initiative in the relationship itself. You sort of bait them, keep reminding them you exist, and wait for them to stake their claim on you, as creepy as that sounds. I've had a handful of ILE guys pursue me (and one girl, though not romantically, she was just lonely af, which is hilarious except not bc I'm gay ) and it's usually because I'm friendly to them enough as well as responsive. ILEs require you to lift their spirits almost on a daily basis (even if they're already pretty high... they can always be higher!), without being too needy. It's not always easy for me to tread the line--it's much easier to deal with LSEs (who are my own age), where I get to be the sad/mad/crazy one sometimes, lol. I would think a friendly, sweet SEI would be a natural at seducing an ILE. They don't always show it, but they appreciate all the help an SEI gives. SEI attentiveness is like crack to ILEs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    I agree with this. Your natural behaviour should attract a Dual, given they are in your vicinity.
    All of those are great points. Just wanted to add that you might be attracting duals of the wrong subtype. Theoretically, you should be compatible with both subtypes, but I've noticed that there's a very obvious distinction between how I feel around Te-LSEs and how I feel around Si-LSEs. Te-LSEs make me feel cagey and irate. Si-LSEs make me feel optimistic, content, and in control. Their energy soothes me. They have the strength of conviction Te brings, with enough Si to be like "let's chill, then figure this out," instead of being like, "OMG WHY ISN'T EVERYTHING ALREADY PERFECT, WATCH ME DO IT AND DON'T FUCK UP."

    However, I've noticed that Fi-EIIs thrive around Te-LSEs and almost seem bored or disappointed by Si-LSEs, as if Si-LSEs just don't have the oomph they want out of a dual. They relish letting someone else take the reins and maneuver the horse while they silently play their part. My Fi-EII coworkers say things like "I would hate to waste the company's time!" and "I'm just supposed to be a cog in the machine! Why would they keep me here if I couldn't follow their instructions?" That's just not how I operate. I don't judge (except when I get stuck with their work, lmao) but it's a very different flavor of duality.

    I've seen, on occasion, Te-SLIs get bored with Ne-IEEs, and Fe-IEIs who just wish their Se-SLE duals would take a fucking chill pill (while making eyes at LIIs, lol... stop). So I really do think subtype matters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emmym View Post
    All of those are great points. Just wanted to add that you might be attracting duals of the wrong subtype. Theoretically, you should be compatible with both subtypes, but I've noticed that there's a very obvious distinction between how I feel around Te-LSEs and how I feel around Si-LSEs. Te-LSEs make me feel cagey and irate. Si-LSEs make me feel optimistic, content, and in control. Their energy soothes me. They have the strength of conviction Te brings, with enough Si to be like "let's chill, then figure this out," instead of being like, "OMG WHY ISN'T EVERYTHING ALREADY PERFECT, WATCH ME DO IT AND DON'T FUCK UP."

    However, I've noticed that Fi-EIIs thrive around Te-LSEs and almost seem bored or disappointed by Si-LSEs, as if Si-LSEs just don't have the oomph they want out of a dual. They relish letting someone else take the reins and maneuver the horse while they silently play their part. My Fi-EII coworkers say things like "I would hate to waste the company's time!" and "I'm just supposed to be a cog in the machine! Why would they keep me here if I couldn't follow their instructions?" That's just not how I operate. I don't judge (except when I get stuck with their work, lmao) but it's a very different flavor of duality.

    I've seen, on occasion, Te-SLIs get bored with Ne-IEEs, and Fe-IEIs who just wish their Se-SLE duals would take a fucking chill pill (while making eyes at LIIs, lol... stop). So I really do think subtype matters.
    Interesting points, I have not yet noticed any differences between EIE-Fe and EIE-Ni that would have bothered me that much but with IEI's I definitely noticed I respond differently with IEI-Ni's than with IEI-Fe's, overall supporting the idea that matching subtypes are important. I sometimes feel like subtypes are almost different types, lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Interesting points, I have not yet noticed any differences between EIE-Fe and EIE-Ni that would have bothered me that much but with IEI's I definitely noticed I respond differently with IEI-Ni's than with IEI-Fe's, overall supporting the idea that matching subtypes are important. I sometimes feel like subtypes are almost different types, lol
    I have a hard time telling EIE-Fe and EIE-Ni apart sometimes, personally. I do know there's a nerdy subtype and a hot subtype, lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emmym View Post
    I have a hard time telling EIE-Fe and EIE-Ni apart sometimes, personally. I do know there's a nerdy subtype and a hot subtype, lol.
    Lol, I feel like the nerdy subtype and the hot subtype are the same one (EIE-Ni)

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    Quote Originally Posted by epheme View Post
    Lol, I feel like the nerdy subtype and the hot subtype are the same one (EIE-Ni)
    Right


    Quote Originally Posted by Emmym View Post
    I have a hard time telling EIE-Fe and EIE-Ni apart sometimes, personally. I do know there's a nerdy subtype and a hot subtype, lol.
    Eh I initially had a hard time with it myself but overall I find EIE-Fe gives a much more Rational impression compared to EIE-Ni. A different brand of that for males vs females though, as far as I noticed so that makes things more complex. By impression btw I mean cognitive, not the energy of the vibe of the person. Oh and usually less apparent intuition as well for the Fe subtype.
    Last edited by Myst; 10-01-2015 at 07:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by epheme View Post
    Lol, I feel like the nerdy subtype and the hot subtype are the same one (EIE-Ni)
    Not the ones I meet. The nerdy EIEs I meet are like... the ones could use a dual to remind them to shower, wear clean clothes etc. They're the social pariahs who desperately want to be noticed, lol. The hot EIEs downplay their intelligence and talk smack on EVERYONE. I always seem to get them as professors, lmao.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emmym View Post
    Not the ones I meet. The nerdy EIEs I meet are like... the ones could use a dual to remind them to shower, wear clean clothes etc. They're the social pariahs who desperately want to be noticed, lol. The hot EIEs downplay their intelligence and talk smack on EVERYONE. I always seem to get them as professors, lmao.
    Lol when the word nerdy was brought up, that's not what I thought of. Simply interest in intellectual stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Lol when the word nerdy was brought up, that's not what I thought of. Simply interest in intellectual stuff.
    Oh, yeah. Those are the professors I get, lol. I've had "hot EIEs" for French, history and English classes. They don't put up with shit and are full of catty things to say, whether gay, straight, young, old, male or female. Great teachers when they're not pissed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emmym View Post
    Oh, yeah. Those are the professors I get, lol. I've had "hot EIEs" for French, history and English classes. They don't put up with shit and are full of catty things to say, whether gay, straight, young, old, male or female. Great teachers when they're not pissed.
    If by catty you mean spiteful, I fail to see how that's type related.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    If by catty you mean spiteful, I fail to see how that's type related.
    Not really spiteful, just sort of observant and calculated to be not very nice. Also, your quotes make me feel popular.
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    "netflix and don't touch me"
    LMFAO ded

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    Be hella funny
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    hey

    *maybe it's a lost cause
    I always thought it's much easier to connect with ILEs when both are on neutral ground. Or maybe something slightly in favour of your own IM. In an intellectual setting (university etc.) the ILEs become hard to approach for me. But if we take a walk in the park, have some icecream and talk about this and that then things may happen. But as a SEI you are always in a weak position if the setting is intellectual/professional. Change that and your chances will increase. Also, a regular "conversation" is not always the best thing. It's too much in favor of the ILE, ideas, thoughts etc. As I said, take them for a walk...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    I always thought it's much easier to connect with ILEs when both are on neutral ground. Or maybe something slightly in favour of your own IM. In an intellectual setting (university etc.) the ILEs become hard to approach for me. But if we take a walk in the park, have some icecream and talk about this and that then things may happen. But as a SEI you are always in a weak position if the setting is intellectual/professional. Change that and your chances will increase. Also, a regular "conversation" is not always the best thing. It's too much in favor of the ILE, ideas, thoughts etc. As I said, take them for a walk...
    That's why I'm a fan of doing physical activities with people, preferably cooperative. Everybody gets to showcase something, whether it be ideas or physical skills.
    Reason is a whore.

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    offer them food or a snack or something. a SEI offered my ILE mother some candy the first time they met and my mom would mention it a few days later, when i started talking about her. she would give me a weirdly long explanation how she couldn't eat the food so she had to decline, but she would have accepted it, of course, if it was something else (i'm actually really surprised that she reacted so positively to this situation, because my mother has a weird relation to food, and is extremely neurotic, etc.) and then suddenly would become suspicious of the intention behind it. like the SEI was only so nice because she wanted something specific from her.
    (it was in a professional, academic setting, btw.)

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    essentially wear cute/comfortable clothing, smile and giggle a lot, be fun(ny), be open to weird propositions and propose a few of your own, don't tell them what to do because they will almost certainly do the opposite, but lightly imply that they have positive feelings toward you. they have a tendency to mirror other people (often without realizing it) so if you're happy and goofy, then they will follow suit. just FILL them with positive emotions, and food. ask them for advice/assistance when you're caught in a tough spot, make them feel appreciated, loved, and needed. show them your music, writing, art. they may criticize it but it comes from a good place. relate to them through music, books, movies, games, etc, and when they're feeling low, don't ask them how they're feeling, just try your best to raise their spirits. catch it before it reaches that point, if you can, and take precautionary measures. my ILE friend struggled with depression (and long bouts of paralyzing loneliness) to the point where he'd go weeks without seeing or speaking to anyone during the summertime, but our SEI (or ESE?) friend would just show up at his house, pull him out of bed, and take him out on an elaborate adventure. "grab your bike, let's buy candy, break into an abandoned warehouse, and hit up a local concert!" if they say no, which they may, then don't take it personally. it could just be a mood thing, maybe a lack of interest in those particular activities, just try again another time (if they seemed semi-willing, which should be obvious). they seem to appreciate being invited out to big social events, especially if you have a big circle of friends/acquaintances, it's fun to charm and learn about new people. if they come to you with a new idea or story, just hear them out, ask leading questions, and laugh at the right moments.

    ILEs go wherever the fun is.
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