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Thread: Setting boundaries between duals

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    Starry girl echan's Avatar
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    Default Setting boundaries between duals

    I know a ENTj and ISTj couple who are always bickering over who is wealthier and who is stronger and who is more fit to survive.

    The ENTj is always trying to pwn the ISTj in sex and raping her in the process.

    She calls it rape anyway.

    Anyway me and my fiance and my brother in law are INFj and ESTj and ESTj

    I am Ne Aneway subtype and they are ESTj Si subtype.

    My brother in law is a good Christian and is an honest person so far so good.

    But my bad fiancee is an entertainer and I'm not sure if he's a Christian or not and he is such a liar.

    He tells me this is because of his Ne hidden agenda. His desire is to be perfect and creative and when he says he sees someone as perfect and funny and creative and smart as moiself he wants to outsmart me.

    He is even telling me to edit this post to make it sound as unserious as possible when I am talking about serious relationship matters.

    Anyway.

    He lets me show off my Si hidden agenda by letting me browse furniture and cozy stuff like that with him while he helps filter out the good and bad ones and I appreciate his help a lot.

    It seems like whenever I go out shopping with ESxjs they just let me choose whatever I want and just say yay or nay to it.

    Sometimes I receive stupid advice from ESFjs. I think I'm better at them at this stuff yo.

    Aneway.

    Sometimes they come up with better recommendations.
    It would be even cooler if an ESFj could draw new stuff for me even.

    So in return for this I have let my fiancee exert his mental control over me by letting him bullshit all he wants whenever he is in silly nilly NiFe mode or SillyNelly Ne hidden agenda mode.

    I don't want to hear his bullshit when he does it to me without knowing it but he seems to get a high from tricking me into believing this or that.
    But he seems to get even more excited when I say, like a teacher to a little kiddo "ok, it's NeSi time." and I listen to his fantasies. It enhances our trust.

    All I say is that it would build our trust if we set boundaries for each other.

    Anyway.

    ENTjs and ISTjs and ISFjs, how do you set boundaries for each other? How do we make duality work?
    I want to be ISTp.

    sp/sx
    These people often have an earthy, mysterious quality to them. They are slow to commit, but once they do it is with an attitude of life commitment, to the establishment of an impermeable bond. Others can be taken aback by how suddenly and completely this type can lock into them, and by the depth of understanding of the otherís condition. They attach to others at an organic, root level, in contrast to the other subvariantís surface formality. The sanctuary of home is of paramount concern, and this type takes particular delight in decorating their spaces to reflect their cherished sense of taste and depth. Depth and discrimination characterize this stacking.

    Motivation: to live in a secure, comfortable environment where they can pursue their private interests in depth.


  2. #2
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Why are you with this guy? ESTj will let you know that they don't like something or they want you to stoo

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    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
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    In a strange way the op actually makes sense and thats when you realize you have been doing socionics for far to long.
    Last edited by wacey; 09-03-2015 at 11:52 PM.
    "If this to end in fire, then we should all burn together. Watch the flames climb higher into the night."

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    I think the OP is a great example of tangential thinking.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Echan you are so EII

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    I think the OP is a great example of tangential thinking.
    What is that?

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    What is that?
    tan∑gen∑tial
    tanˈjen(t)SHəl/
    adjective
    of, relating to, or along a tangent.
    "a tangential line"
    diverging from a previous course or line; erratic.
    "tangential thoughts"
    hardly touching a matter; peripheral.
    "the reforms were tangential to efforts to maintain a basic standard of life"

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    tan∑gen∑tial
    tanˈjen(t)SHəl/
    adjective
    of, relating to, or along a tangent.
    "a tangential line"
    diverging from a previous course or line; erratic.
    "tangential thoughts"
    hardly touching a matter; peripheral.
    "the reforms were tangential to efforts to maintain a basic standard of life"
    Oh I thought it was a psychological jargon

  10. #10
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echan View Post
    ... I have let my fiancee exert his mental control over me by letting him bullshit all he wants whenever he is in silly nilly NiFe mode or SillyNelly Ne hidden agenda mode.

    I don't want to hear his bullshit when he does it to me without knowing it but he seems to get a high from tricking me into believing this or that.
    But he seems to get even more excited when I say, like a teacher to a little kiddo "ok, it's NeSi time." and I listen to his fantasies. It enhances our trust.

    All I say is that it would build our trust if we set boundaries for each other.

    Anyway.

    ENTjs and ISTjs and ISFjs, how do you set boundaries for each other? How do we make duality work?
    I am not one of those types, but I think one thing Duals have in common is having very little need to set boundaries... you just don't hit on each other's sensitive places. When you do need to set boundaries, there is no strife at all over how or when to say it. You just say it, and they respond like you'd want. There are so few boundaries I make for my Dual, so its hard to say any, but I do make them. Okay, like his voice is louder than mine, and I ask him to talk (and pray!) more quietly. I'll just say, "I'm not hard of hearing", or "Not so loud, please". Also he has a habit of repeating a thing, like 3 times in a row when answering one of my questions. Often I am asking him to explain a thing I don't get, and he pretty much always has a very good, useful answer.. but then he goes on immediately, with usually two more SLIGHTLY different ways of saying the SAME thing. And so I anticipate when he is going into the 2nd time, and I jump in "I got it. Its __" [whatever he just said]. I believe these are just bad conversation habits from not living with a wife for so long, I think, and working in the same family business for years before that. Anyway, you see how mild these boundaries have to be for us. They are easily made, and neither of us is really disturbed by the other.

    I see the SAME ease in the other Delta Duals I know, as well as the Alpha and Beta Duals I know. I don't happen to know any Gamma Duals yet [I hope to! I am praying my husband's SEE daughter marries an ILI!], but I expect them to be no different.

    Your need to make boundaries does not sound like the mild Dual scenarios I know.. Did you ever consider one of you might have your type wrong, throwing the two of you into different Quadra's, even also making you into Conflictors? Its not unusual to mistake your Conflictor for a Dual when you know Socionics (and the idea that the person is a Dual when you know about Duality can make you jump in too fast). We are attracted to our Conflictors, and conflict doesn't start til well into the relationship, and then only slowly - but it never gets better; it gets worse. And they need boundaries, bad! Yes, I am seeing a possible Conflictor relationship to you in what you wrote - it sounds like the relating of Conflictor couples that I know well.

    ESTjs I know are not habitual liars at all. They might lie for convenience in a small matter to get on with some other point, but normally they shoot straight, in my experience.

    You also wrote:
    He is even telling me to edit this post to make it sound as unserious as possible when I am talking about serious relationship matters.
    I cannot imagine ESTjs fussing over how you worded a post on a relationship issue. I think they woudl be hands-off on that.

    And you wrote:
    So in return for this I have let my fiancee exert his mental control over me by letting him bullshit all he wants whenever he is in silly nilly NiFe mode
    The ESTj's I know don't get silly unless its all in good mutual fun, and they don't exert mental control over others. They are way too busy and involved in the realities of life to be trying to control anyone's mind.

    Example from 16types.info is ESTj @Director Abbie. I do not see her here correcting anyone on how they word their relationship issue questions. She might just jump in and make a correction on the mis-use of of an apostrophe, though. I never see bull from her; she is appreciated here for her plain straight talk, and never has there been an attempt to control anyone's mind. She accepts peoples minds for what they are.

    Maybe look at both your Model A descriptions and see if either of you has a harder fit than the other to it.... At any rate, you want to be sure you are not Conflictors - that is one tough road to hoe. I know some that are doing it, raising their families, but its been very very hard.

    Maybe read ISFp for you, too... because INFjs usually don't have trouble making boundaries they want to make. When they want to make them, they just make them, and they are quite clear on it! My ISFp friend (now very happily, long-married to her ENTp Dual) once told me about a guy she dated seriously in college, that quickly became controlling and frankly scary. I found her break-up technique interesting, and not at all what I would have done. I'd have had a talk, as many talks as necessary to make sure we understood each other and he knew why I was leaving. Not her. Knowing how to make a boundary, even nicely, was not in her repertoire. She just started "being unavailable", too busy to get together, and when she could not graciously get out of being with him, she acted very, very boring with him. Finally he broke up with her. She met her husband in the same band they were all in, and former boyfriend told new boyfriend to "look out for her."... He did.

    P.S.If you get to considering other types for either of you, it would be interesting to see how those types' prescribed romance styles match up to your experience.
    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 09-05-2015 at 07:03 PM.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  11. #11
    Starry girl echan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    I am not one of those types, but I think one thing Duals have in common is having very little need to set boundaries... you just don't hit on each other's sensitive places. When you do need to set boundaries, there is no strife at all over how or when to say it. You just say it, and they respond like you'd want. There are so few boundaries I make for my Dual, so its hard to say any, but I do make them. Okay, like his voice is louder than mine, and I ask him to talk (and pray!) more quietly. I'll just say, "I'm not hard of hearing", or "Not so loud, please". Also he has a habit of repeating a thing, like 3 times in a row when answering one of my questions. Often I am asking him to explain a thing I don't get, and he pretty much always has a very good, useful answer.. but then he goes on immediately, with usually two more SLIGHTLY different ways of saying the SAME thing. And so I anticipate when he is going into the 2nd time, and I jump in "I got it. Its __" [whatever he just said]. I believe these are just bad conversation habits from not living with a wife for so long, I think, and working in the same family business for years before that. Anyway, you see how mild these boundaries have to be for us. They are easily made, and neither of us is really disturbed by the other.

    I see the SAME ease in the other Delta Duals I know, as well as the Alpha and Beta Duals I know. I don't happen to know any Gamma Duals yet [I hope to! I am praying my husband's SEE daughter marries an ILI!], but I expect them to be no different.

    Your need to make boundaries does not sound like the mild Dual scenarios I know.. Did you ever consider one of you might have your type wrong, throwing the two of you into different Quadra's, even also making you into Conflictors? Its not unusual to mistake your Conflictor for a Dual when you know Socionics (and the idea that the person is a Dual when you know about Duality can make you jump in too fast). We are attracted to our Conflictors, and conflict doesn't start til well into the relationship, and then only slowly - but it never gets better; it gets worse. And they need boundaries, bad! Yes, I am seeing a possible Conflictor relationship to you in what you wrote - it sounds like the relating of Conflictor couples that I know well.

    ESTjs I know are not habitual liars at all. They might lie for convenience in a small matter to get on with some other point, but normally they shoot straight, in my experience.

    You also wrote: I cannot imagine ESTjs fussing over how you worded a post on a relationship issue. I think they woudl be hands-off on that.

    And you wrote:
    The ESTj's I know don't get silly unless its all in good mutual fun, and they don't exert mental control over others. They are way too busy and involved in the realities of life to be trying to control anyone's mind.

    Example from 16types.info is ESTj @Director Abbie. I do not see her here correcting anyone on how they word their relationship issue questions. She might just jump in and make a correction on the mis-use of of an apostrophe, though. I never see bull from her; she is appreciated here for her plain straight talk, and never has there been an attempt to control anyone's mind. She accepts peoples minds for what they are.

    Maybe look at both your Model A descriptions and see if either of you has a harder fit than the other to it.... At any rate, you want to be sure you are not Conflictors - that is one tough road to hoe. I know some that are doing it, raising their families, but its been very very hard.

    Maybe read ISFp for you, too... because INFjs usually don't have trouble making boundaries they want to make. When they want to make them, they just make them, and they are quite clear on it! My ISFp friend (now very happily, long-married to her ENTp Dual) once told me about a guy she dated seriously in college, that quickly became controlling and frankly scary. I found her break-up technique interesting, and not at all what I would have done. I'd have had a talk, as many talks as necessary to make sure we understood each other and he knew why I was leaving. Not her. Knowing how to make a boundary, even nicely, was not in her repertoire. She just started "being unavailable", too busy to get together, and when she could not graciously get out of being with him, she acted very, very boring with him. Finally he broke up with her. She met her husband in the same band they were all in, and former boyfriend told new boyfriend to "look out for her."... He did.

    P.S.If you get to considering other types for either of you, it would be interesting to see how those types' prescribed romance styles match up to your experience.
    Hm I actually think I might be ISFj as I initially typed myself. I took an extended socionics test and even scored Fi subtype of ESFp!!!

    Aneway

    It might be that I am just getting pissed off by my ESTj fiancee's desire to exercise his creative bull.

    I have found another crossdressing ENTj whom God says is the right one for me and I actually felt attracted to this woman/dude within 1 hour of complimenting her well trained muscles and beautiful eyes and big nose

    I notice that when I am with ENTjs I feel comfortable and don't need to even talk.

    We just sit in comfortable silence doing nothing and cracking stupid jokes about how mental we are while the ENTj just lies back on a bench in the open space enjoying his Ni uniqueness.
    @FDG



    Otherwise we just make each other's dirty jokes even dirtier and more risque and raunchy
    @FDG

    As for romance styles

    Hm I'm not sure but I like it when my love interests treat me as a queen or as a princess to be pampered.
    I scored 1. Aggressor and then 2. Infantile in romantic styles actually.

    I also like singing Paparazzi a lot while I fantasize about turning my man (sissy boy) on.
    I want to be ISTp.

    sp/sx
    These people often have an earthy, mysterious quality to them. They are slow to commit, but once they do it is with an attitude of life commitment, to the establishment of an impermeable bond. Others can be taken aback by how suddenly and completely this type can lock into them, and by the depth of understanding of the otherís condition. They attach to others at an organic, root level, in contrast to the other subvariantís surface formality. The sanctuary of home is of paramount concern, and this type takes particular delight in decorating their spaces to reflect their cherished sense of taste and depth. Depth and discrimination characterize this stacking.

    Motivation: to live in a secure, comfortable environment where they can pursue their private interests in depth.


  12. #12
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echan View Post
    Hm I actually think I might be ISFj as I initially typed myself. I took an extended socionics test and even scored Fi subtype of ESFp!!!

    Aneway

    It might be that I am just getting pissed off by my ESTj fiancee's desire to exercise his creative bull.

    I have found another crossdressing ENTj whom God says is the right one for me and I actually felt attracted to this woman/dude within 1 hour of complimenting her well trained muscles and beautiful eyes and big nose

    I notice that when I am with ENTjs I feel comfortable and don't need to even talk.

    We just sit in comfortable silence doing nothing and cracking stupid jokes about how mental we are while the ENTj just lies back on a bench in the open space enjoying his Ni uniqueness.
    @FDG



    Otherwise we just make each other's dirty jokes even dirtier and more risque and raunchy
    @FDG

    As for romance styles

    Hm I'm not sure but I like it when my love interests treat me as a queen or as a princess to be pampered.
    I scored 1. Aggressor and then 2. Infantile in romantic styles actually.

    I also like singing Paparazzi a lot while I fantasize about turning my man (sissy boy) on.
    LOL. Well, I don't know your type but I'm pretty sure its not Delta. ...You're just not boring enough.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  13. #13
    Starry girl echan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    LOL. Well, I don't know your type but I'm pretty sure its not Delta. ...You're just not boring enough.
    Oh but I want to spice up those Deltans.

    Aliens are funny
    I want to be ISTp.

    sp/sx
    These people often have an earthy, mysterious quality to them. They are slow to commit, but once they do it is with an attitude of life commitment, to the establishment of an impermeable bond. Others can be taken aback by how suddenly and completely this type can lock into them, and by the depth of understanding of the otherís condition. They attach to others at an organic, root level, in contrast to the other subvariantís surface formality. The sanctuary of home is of paramount concern, and this type takes particular delight in decorating their spaces to reflect their cherished sense of taste and depth. Depth and discrimination characterize this stacking.

    Motivation: to live in a secure, comfortable environment where they can pursue their private interests in depth.


  14. #14
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Yup definitely ISFj

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