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Thread: A Summarized review of Hidden Agendas

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    Default A Summarized review of Hidden Agendas

    Over the years of study and observation in socionics I have noticed that the typical descriptions to the Hidden Agenda function may be somewhat broader than I usually read about.

    Here's my small summary based on a few field observations, part 1.

    ENTp, ESTp = "to be loved". includes: to be looked up upon, to be admired, to be recognised as superior in one or many skills, to be approved. Notice that the difference of APPROVED and LOVED is something to be aware of.

    INTj, INFj = "to be healthy" is too simplistic. Since Si is the information element here, we have a whole thing about aesthetics also. I notice INTj and INFj women are usually attracted only to the most handsome men, and in this there is a connection to their Hidden Agenda. They also tend to arrange their houses quite comfortably (I had an INFj girlfriend who was totally crazy about such things, her pillow had to be of a special goose material, her bed was heaven because the mattress was of the highest comfort and quality, and she had all these highly comfortable couches and puffs around her house). So here there is also a preoccupation with aesthetics and comfort both physical and mental.

    ESFj, ESTj = "to be perfect" is also simplistic. It seems from observation that these types are usually pursuing high goals, sometimes unrealistic and overestimating their ability to get there, and this has to do with IDEALIZATION which is linked to Ne. Here, what is imagined and wanted is seen as either possible or impossible without any in-between. They often imagine the most of themselves too, and try to show in their persona this idealized self of their own imagination, though they may fall short of it. Many do achieve their big goals, due to their extraverted nature and their primary information element. In ESTJ's case this is Te so here comes an ability to arrange things, to administer, to organize and build with great efficiency, and in ESFJ's case this comes often as a social skill (Fe) in getting to be that nice person who has a somewhat magnetic personality that draws people towards them and make people trust them.

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    Cool start you should write more.
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    @Airman,

    "INFj women are usually attracted only to the most handsome men...I had an INFj girlfriend"
    .. Not to be proud, or anything. Just teasing. Actually, of the INFjs I know, this is sort of true. But they want more qualities than just handsome; also their devotion and commitment... which they are willing to faithfully wait for. Sometimes with those with whom its hopeless!

    Of INFj's, I am closest to my INFj sis-in-law (by ex-marraige). Yes, she does put quality comfort at the front of her decorating choices. She, like the other INFj's I know, are not a hoarders as far as decorating; they won't over-buy, they just buy CAREFULLY and are PICKY. They do place priority on comfort. My sis-in-law got me into the HIGHEST count of Egyptian cotton sheets, which are amazing after some washes, and now I don't want anything else on my bed... Recently she recalled that I had gotten a very comfortable bed-topper for my sons bed which she had experienced when she and her boys slept over after a fight with SLE husband. She wanted advice on which topper to buy, as she wanted one for her bed, so she called me from the store to make SURE she got the right one.

    My brother is ESTj and I appreciate the hidden agenda insight. I do want to understand him better, and its not like he tells me his feelings. Yes, he has great idealized goals and pretty much always meets them.

    Also, my ex is ESFj and when he left it was his choice and not of my doing, that's for sure. Yet his blaming me was a very unfair scourge, truly a needless insult on top of injury, IMO. Yet, I understood the guilt component of it - he wanted to be seen as a good guy and he did not do good in that case - but I understand it even more in light of what you say of ESFj's - in light of his personal agenda - to be a great guy people trust - my mere existence really is an obstacle to that. And it also explains one memorable scene with him once in the months after I knew of the pending divorce (of which I discussed very little with ex, having known ALL his thoughts, having discovered his correspondence with his girlfriend. It confirmed who he was, and I knew there was no point in wasting my breath with him.). It was a moment when I simply calmly and briefly pointed out the injustice of the situation he put us in - just stating the truth, not expecting him to change in any way because of it - and he flew off in great rage, shouting, and pointing his finger forcefully in my face, "YOU DON'T MATTER!". How can anyone SAY that of ANYONE, let alone the one you pledged your life to, the mother of your child? Besides being puzzled how ANYONE could say this, I saw it as confirming statement of how he had actually lived his life with me, vs. the way he liked people to think he had.

    (And God truly give back the years the locust ate because my new dear husband now ALWAYS shows me I matter. A lot!)

    I appreciate the SLE explanation especially; I do so want to understand my SLE son, and be supportive in the way that a Mom should be. Those Beta's think so differently from us Delta's. I was anxious, concerned that my son did not attend Mass much at all while he was away this year. I realize he was busy. And it was his only day to sleep in. I also realize ever individual needs to embrace faith for themselves in their own time by their own convictions. But we did attend Mass every week of his life! So I was sad. I expressed this little, and carefully (one or two times), while he was away. But when he was here, before he traveled on to his Dad's where he will live for the next 2 years of college, we were at the table after a meal with others who were being very approving of his choices and progress this past year, of which I am also proud. I then made a comment, "And soon you will be at Mass again, when you realize your greatest inheritance is your Catholic faith." I immediately regretted it because of the look of defensiveness that flitted across his face. I knew then that this comment should have been made in private. I see now, from what yo said, Airman, more of why what I said there was inappropriate and unwelcome. It was his moment of reward, after hard work this year, to get the affirmation and approval he deserved. And I took away from it a bit, pointing out what I saw to be a "failure".

    [I do regret that! If any SLEs, or an understanding IEI (@Aylen ?) or other Betas can give me a hint on what I could say to take the sting out of my blunder, now that its past, I'd appreciate it!]
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airman View Post
    Over the years of study and observation in socionics I have noticed that the typical descriptions to the Hidden Agenda function may be somewhat broader than I usually read about.

    Here's my small summary based on a few field observations, part 1.

    ENTp, ESTp = "to be loved". includes: to be looked up upon, to be admired, to be recognised as superior in one or many skills, to be approved. Notice that the difference of APPROVED and LOVED is something to be aware of.

    INTj, INFj = "to be healthy" is too simplistic. Since Si is the information element here, we have a whole thing about aesthetics also. I notice INTj and INFj women are usually attracted only to the most handsome men, and in this there is a connection to their Hidden Agenda. They also tend to arrange their houses quite comfortably (I had an INFj girlfriend who was totally crazy about such things, her pillow had to be of a special goose material, her bed was heaven because the mattress was of the highest comfort and quality, and she had all these highly comfortable couches and puffs around her house). So here there is also a preoccupation with aesthetics and comfort both physical and mental.
    Not really true in my case. I mean, yeah, I would prefer someone handsome over someone ugly but who wouldn't? But to me, looks are not the most important thing. Your mind, your personality is far more important. Regarding aesthetics, I'm not that particular either. I am more about functionality although it is a nice bonus if something looks nice as well.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    Not really true in my case. I mean, yeah, I would prefer someone handsome over someone ugly but who wouldn't? But to me, looks are not the most important thing. Your mind, your personality is far more important. Regarding aesthetics, I'm not that particular either. I am more about functionality although it is a nice bonus if something looks nice as well.
    ESE are well groomed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    I appreciate the SLE explanation especially; I do so want to understand my SLE son, and be supportive in the way that a Mom should be. Those Beta's think so differently from us Delta's. I was anxious, concerned that my son did not attend Mass much at all while he was away this year. I realize he was busy. And it was his only day to sleep in. I also realize ever individual needs to embrace faith for themselves in their own time by their own convictions. But we did attend Mass every week of his life! So I was sad. I expressed this little, and carefully (one or two times), while he was away. But when he was here, before he traveled on to his Dad's where he will live for the next 2 years of college, we were at the table after a meal with others who were being very approving of his choices and progress this past year, of which I am also proud. I then made a comment, "And soon you will be at Mass again, when you realize your greatest inheritance is your Catholic faith." I immediately regretted it because of the look of defensiveness that flitted across his face. I knew then that this comment should have been made in private. I see now, from what yo said, Airman, more of why what I said there was inappropriate and unwelcome. It was his moment of reward, after hard work this year, to get the affirmation and approval he deserved. And I took away from it a bit, pointing out what I saw to be a "failure".

    [I do regret that! If any SLEs, or an understanding IEI (@Aylen ?) or other Betas can give me a hint on what I could say to take the sting out of my blunder, now that its past, I'd appreciate it!]

    Hidden agenda is based on your fourth function, the one that hardly gets satisfied because the other three functions are considered before it. The psyche subconsciously wants it to be satisfied but it is overruled most times. The best way to have it fulfilled is through a partner. To understand how a function would produce a hidden agenda, you must consider how it operates as a primary function.

    [...]

    When the feeling or ethical function is extroverted (Fe), it places others at the centre of perspective; self and its values are considered last. When considering the needs of self, the perspective is still external; how would "he/she feel"? Because self is listened to or considered so little, the function needs to be looked after by the external world. Therefore, while it is continually focused on others, it needs support and validation from somewhere else, and this can be construed as needing "to be loved".
    http://www.socionics.com/advan/comments.html?ioha.html

    He does explain the fourth function connection but not sure if I get it. I will have to read more carefully.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Airman View Post
    Over the years of study and observation in socionics I have noticed that the typical descriptions to the Hidden Agenda function may be somewhat broader than I usually read about.

    Here's my small summary based on a few field observations, part 1. (...)
    Cool. Waiting for the rest.

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    I'll just give a short summary of how I think all the HAs manifest and why its a weak function.

    Si: Si hidden agenda in my opinion is all about having high standards for the quality of things such as food, music, work conditions, physical attractiveness, art, or any form of entertainment. Its weak because these can be unrealistic expectations and these types are often unable to produce such quality themselves.

    Fe: Manifest as seeking attention from other people and being wild and crazy. It is weak because these types often rely on things such pranks to lighten up the atmosphere which may backfire.

    Ni: Manifest as trying to see where the world is headed and what the future has in store for them. It is weak because they can tend to fall for alex jones bullshit and can have paranoid or naive beliefs.

    Se: Manifest as showing off their achievements, personal belongings, or their social status. It is weak because these types are often unable to handle jobs that demand real hard determination and they lack the backbone of Se doms.

    Ti: Manifest as an attraction to scientific breakthroughs and trying to figure out how the world works. It is weak because much like Ni HA they often fall for psuedo-science and they crumble when tested with hard logic.

    Ne: Manifest as a desire to keep up with what is trending and to get themselves and others to go do some fun activities. Its is weak because their ideas tend to be conventional and lacking imagination.

    Fi: Manifest as being chartiable with their belongings and setting goals to help society. Its is weak because they suck at understanding how to appropriately interact with others.

    Te: Manifest as trying to be the best performer in their work and always getting the best results. It is weak because they take a spray and prey approach and expend their time and energy inefficiently on dead end jobs rather then finding out the best way to do something.
    Last edited by Muddy; 09-01-2015 at 01:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    I'll just give a short summary of how I think all the HAs manifest and why its a weak function.

    Si: Si hidden agenda in my opinion is all about having high standards for the quality of things such as food, music, work conditions, physical attractiveness, art, or any form of entertainment. Its weak because these can be unrealistic expectations and these types are often unable to produce such quality themselves.

    Fe: Manifest as seeking attention from other people and being wild and crazy. It is weak because these types often rely on things such pranks to lighten up the atmosphere which may backfire.

    Ni: Manifest as trying to see where the world is headed and what the future has in store for them. It is weak because can tend to fall for alex jones bullshit and can have paranoid or naive beliefs.

    Se: Manifest as showing off their achievements, personal belongings, or their social status. It is weak because these types are often unable to handle jobs that demand real hard determination and they lack the backbone of Se doms.

    Ti: Manifest as an attraction to scientific breakthroughs and trying to figure out how the world works. It is weak because much like Ni HA they often fall for psuedo-science and they crumble when tested with hard logic.

    Ne: Manifest as a desire to keep up with what is trending and to get themselves and others to go do some fun activities. Its is weak because their ideas tend to be conventional and lacking imagination.

    Fi: Manifest as being chartiable with their belongings and setting goals to help society. Its is weak because they suck at understanding how to appropriately interact with others.

    Te: Manifest as trying to be the best performer in their work and always getting the best results. It is weak because they take a spray and prey approach and expend their time and energy inefficiently on dead end jobs rather then finding out the best way to do something.

    I still don't know that Si hidden agenda fits me all that well. I want good quality to be sure but at the same time I don't see myself as overly unrealistic or fussy about it. I often find myself liking food, music, art, etc. that others would deem as crap. But then again, in regards to beauty and taste, it's all highly subjective anyway.

    Of those descriptions, I find myself for some odd reasons relating the most to Te and even Ti!
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    I still don't know that Si hidden agenda fits me all that well. I want good quality to be sure but at the same time I don't see myself as overly unrealistic or fussy about it. I often find myself liking food, music, art, etc. that others would deem as crap. But then again, in regards to beauty and taste, it's all highly subjective anyway.
    Well it seems we found something we differ on. I can notoriously fussy about the quality of food. For example, if a baked potato comes out all wet and mushy I won't eat it regardless of the guilt of wasting food. I can be quite stubborn in going to the restaurants and want to go when I am out with my family, I sometimes even opt out of dining with my family and just eat what I want when I get home. I've also admittedly only ever been attracted to women on the very high end of the physical attractiveness scale. Sometimes when I see guys with average to below average looking girlfriends I think to myself "what the hell is he doing?". I tend to silently judge people by the music they listen to and sometimes feel like slapping them in the face when they listen to something I think is garbage. I don't really care much about art or clothes though, although I can also be stubborn when I'm expected to wear something I don't comfortable with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    Well it seems we found something we differ on. I can notoriously fussy about the quality of food. For example, if a baked potato comes out all wet and mushy I won't eat it regardless of the guilt of wasting food. I can be quite stubborn in going to the restaurants and want to go when I am out with my family, I sometimes even opt out of dining with my family and just eat what I want when I get home. I've also admittedly only ever been attracted to women on the very high end of the physical attractiveness scale. Sometimes when I see guys with average to below average looking girlfriends I think to myself "what the hell is he doing?". I tend to silently judge people by the music they listen to and sometimes feel like slapping them in the face when they listen to something I think is garbage. I don't really care much about art or clothes though, although I can also be stubborn when I'm expected to wear something I don't comfortable with.
    Snob.

    I won't be sharing my music with you then.
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    @Muddytextures Your descriptions are cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    Ni: Manifest as trying to see where the world is headed and what the future has in store for them. It is weak because can tend to fall for alex jones bullshit and can have paranoid or naive beliefs.
    I don't fall for that shit, most of it isn't even logical.
    Otherwise I relate

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    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    I still don't know that Si hidden agenda fits me all that well. I want good quality to be sure but at the same time I don't see myself as overly unrealistic or fussy about it. I often find myself liking food, music, art, etc. that others would deem as crap. But then again, in regards to beauty and taste, it's all highly subjective anyway.

    Of those descriptions, I find myself for some odd reasons relating the most to Te and even Ti!
    Ti? ..do you fall for bs pseudo-science, then? Heh

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    @Myst Does socionics count as a pseudo-science? If that's the case then yes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    I don't fall for that shit, most of it isn't even logical.
    Otherwise I relate
    The alex jones thing was a direct reference to my bro who watches a lot of his videos on youtube. He also watches a lot other videos about religious prophecies, jade helm 15, the new world order, etc. Every time he talks about those things I can't help but think that I am observing Ni HA in its purest form.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    @Myst Does socionics count as a pseudo-science? If that's the case then yes.
    So you fully believe every part of the theory without any skepticism? Anyway that's not necessarily Ti HA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    The alex jones thing was a direct reference to my bro who watches a lot of his videos on youtube. He also watches a lot other videos about religious prophecies, jade helm 15, the new world order, etc. Every time he talks about those things I can't help but think that I am observing Ni HA in its purest form.
    OK well I do none of that whatsoever. I'm way too skeptical for these sorts of things

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    So you fully believe every part of the theory without any skepticism? Anyway that's not necessarily Ti HA.
    Nope. Okay you got me there. But the rest of the description does fit me to a Ti, bad pun intended.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    Nope. Okay you got me there. But the rest of the description does fit me to a Ti, bad pun intended.
    You mean this "Manifest as an attraction to scientific breakthroughs and trying to figure out how the world works"?

    That mainly declares valuing of Ti, so you would naturally relate to the first sentence lol, I do too.

    Though the "trying" word in it may be indicating that it's only a tryhard, but if you overlook that.. then easy to relate to it.

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    Si-HA description seems much better.

    I might have somewhat hard time at working with overtly cold (and close minded) people. I don't mind emotionally expressive people (although I don't really like drama) and I have noticed that this baffled an EII.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    The alex jones thing was a direct reference to my bro who watches a lot of his videos on youtube. He also watches a lot other videos about religious prophecies, jade helm 15, the new world order, etc. Every time he talks about those things I can't help but think that I am observing Ni HA in its purest form.
    No, I think you are wrong here. That sounds like things that hard core intuitives would be into, because it tickles them.

    Ni-HA people (ISXj) are really not into reading, watching or analyzing theories! LSIs don't read if they can help it. ESIs like to read fantasy novels that are quite basic, but trippy. I think Ni-HA falls easily for trippy stuff, but they don't delve deep into weird theories.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maithili View Post
    No, I think you are wrong here. That sounds like things that hard core intuitives would be into, because it tickles them.

    Ni-HA people (ISXj) are really not into reading, watching or analyzing theories! LSIs don't read if they can help it. ESIs like to read fantasy novels that are quite basic, but trippy. I think Ni-HA falls easily for trippy stuff, but they don't delve deep into weird theories.
    What kind of Fantasy novels, pray tell?

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    Quote Originally Posted by maithili View Post
    No, I think you are wrong here. That sounds like things that hard core intuitives would be into, because it tickles them.

    Ni-HA people (ISXj) are really not into reading, watching or analyzing theories! LSIs don't read if they can help it. ESIs like to read fantasy novels that are quite basic, but trippy. I think Ni-HA falls easily for trippy stuff, but they don't delve deep into weird theories.
    But wouldn't a real intuitive be able to easily see the flaws in such sketchy theories immediately? I can easily do so, but I don't bother in debating it with my brother because there is no point. You could argue that it is more about weak logic but there is no chance in hell my brother is an ethical type, he is very clearly a cold-blooded type. I've noticed this with other ST types as well, not just LSIs. I once had someone who seemed like an ESTx tell me about how he thought aliens were controlling the government. The fact that they don't bother delving deep into such things is exactly why they can have these weird beliefs. Their weak intuition gives them a limited range of knowledge about such things and therefore they are more likely to accept the first thing they hear as truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    I'll just give a short summary of how I think all the HAs manifest and why its a weak function.

    Si: Si hidden agenda in my opinion is all about having high standards for the quality of things such as food, music, work conditions, physical attractiveness, art, or any form of entertainment. Its weak because these can be unrealistic expectations and these types are often unable to produce such quality themselves.

    Fe: Manifest as seeking attention from other people and being wild and crazy. It is weak because these types often rely on things such pranks to lighten up the atmosphere which may backfire.

    Ni: Manifest as trying to see where the world is headed and what the future has in store for them. It is weak because they can tend to fall for alex jones bullshit and can have paranoid or naive beliefs.

    Se: Manifest as showing off their achievements, personal belongings, or their social status. It is weak because these types are often unable to handle jobs that demand real hard determination and they lack the backbone of Se doms.

    Ti: Manifest as an attraction to scientific breakthroughs and trying to figure out how the world works. It is weak because much like Ni HA they often fall for psuedo-science and they crumble when tested with hard logic.

    Ne: Manifest as a desire to keep up with what is trending and to get themselves and others to go do some fun activities. Its is weak because their ideas tend to be conventional and lacking imagination.

    Fi: Manifest as being chartiable with their belongings and setting goals to help society. Its is weak because they suck at understanding how to appropriately interact with others.

    Te: Manifest as trying to be the best performer in their work and always getting the best results. It is weak because they take a spray and prey approach and expend their time and energy inefficiently on dead end jobs rather then finding out the best way to do something.
    Fe → Why would Fe HA manifest itself as attention seeking? What is the reasoning behind it? Fe is the ethics of emotion, the ability to influence others mood. I would rather say that these types over estimate their ability to understand and impact positively the emotional atmosphere.

    Otherwise the others definitions seems okay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chacha View Post
    Fe → Why would Fe HA manifest itself as attention seeking? What is the reasoning behind it? Fe is the ethics of emotion, the ability to influence others mood. I would rather say that these types over estimate their ability to understand and impact positively the emotional atmosphere.
    I agree but the two aren't mutually exclusive definitions of Fe HA. The seek attention to set the stage for an Fe atmosphere that they hope others will help sustain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maithili View Post
    No, I think you are wrong here. That sounds like things that hard core intuitives would be into, because it tickles them.

    Ni-HA people (ISXj) are really not into reading, watching or analyzing theories! LSIs don't read if they can help it. ESIs like to read fantasy novels that are quite basic, but trippy. I think Ni-HA falls easily for trippy stuff, but they don't delve deep into weird theories.
    There are also LSIs who can read the entire library and do go into a lot of no-basic theories. Sorry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maithili View Post
    No, I think you are wrong here. That sounds like things that hard core intuitives would be into, because it tickles them.

    Ni-HA people (ISXj) are really not into reading, watching or analyzing theories! LSIs don't read if they can help it. ESIs like to read fantasy novels that are quite basic, but trippy. I think Ni-HA falls easily for trippy stuff, but they don't delve deep into weird theories.
    Hm I do read some stuff for the intellectual challenge and to educate myself. I don't do it every day but it would be really bad in my view if I never did so. I don't like to fall for trippy stuff, it needs to make logical sense first. Simple as that. And yep, right, I don't even go near, let alone delve deep in weird shit.


    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    But wouldn't a real intuitive be able to easily see the flaws in such sketchy theories immediately? I can easily do so, but I don't bother in debating it with my brother because there is no point. You could argue that it is more about weak logic but there is no chance in hell my brother is an ethical type, he is very clearly a cold-blooded type. I've noticed this with other ST types as well, not just LSIs. I once had someone who seemed like an ESTx tell me about how he thought aliens were controlling the government. The fact that they don't bother delving deep into such things is exactly why they can have these weird beliefs. Their weak intuition gives them a limited range of knowledge about such things and therefore they are more likely to accept the first thing they hear as truth.
    Your brother is just stupid, got nothing to do with N/S.


    Quote Originally Posted by Velvet View Post
    There are also LSIs who can read the entire library and do go into a lot of no-basic theories. Sorry.
    Finally someone with some sense here beyond stereotyping. Heh.

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    There aren't enough information about Ni-HA honestly, but ESIs and LSIs actually are interested in how processes develop over time; even if their understanding of the flow of time is not perfect.They are very aware that their tasks require an amount of time, but can have trouble knowing when to take action in order to respect deadlines.

    At least I've never seen that these types believe in conspiracy theories, or don't read books. Lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    The alex jones thing was a direct reference to my bro who watches a lot of his videos on youtube. He also watches a lot other videos about religious prophecies, jade helm 15, the new world order, etc. Every time he talks about those things I can't help but think that I am observing Ni HA in its purest form.
    I know 2 SLE who are into reading conspiracy theories but don't take them very seriously.

    I know 2 EII that are into conspiracy theories and take them more seriously. Not about alien stuff or mind control but more about our food, government and medical institutions. It might even be 3 EII if the third person I am thinking of is EII and not IEE but something makes me think they are IEE because of the more esoteric nature of his theories. I think conspiracy theories can be fascinating and highly appealing to Ne. I can't get into them myself and I try to be careful not to offend those I know take it serious. First hand experience tells me they can get quite angry and think me naive if I laugh it off. :/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chacha View Post
    There aren't enough information about Ni-HA honestly, but ESIs and LSIs actually are interested in how processes develop over time; even if their understanding of the flow of time is not perfect.They are very aware that their tasks require an amount of time, but can have trouble knowing when to take action in order to respect deadlines.

    At least I've never seen that these types believe in conspiracy theories, or don't read books. Lol.
    Yeah I relate to that except that I do know when to take action in terms of deadlines. I have like some instinctual sense of timing that stuff. And yeh lol.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I know 2 SLE who are into reading conspiracy theories but don't take them very seriously.

    I know 2 EII that are into conspiracy theories and take them more seriously. Not about alien stuff or mind control but more about our food, government and medical institutions. It might even be 3 EII if the third person I am thinking of is EII and not IEE but something makes me think they are IEE because of the more esoteric nature of his theories. I think conspiracy theories can be fascinating and highly appealing to Ne. I can't get into them myself and I try to be careful not to offend those I know take it serious. First hand experience tells me they can get quite angry and think me naive if I laugh it off. :/
    Yes, this bs can appeal to Ne types a lot, I noticed that myself

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    Ni: Manifest as trying to see where the world is headed and what the future has in store for them. It is weak because can tend to fall for alex jones bullshit and can have paranoid or naive beliefs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    @Muddytextures Your descriptions are cool



    I don't fall for that shit, most of it isn't even logical.
    Otherwise I relate
    Maybe not "the world"...maybe just "us" (as in the immediate surroundings), or "this" (the events unfolding), or "your world", or even better ... "our world".

    The story line; the narratives past, present and future.
    Last edited by wacey; 09-02-2015 at 05:55 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by maithili View Post
    No, I think you are wrong here. That sounds like things that hard core intuitives would be into, because it tickles them.

    Ni-HA people (ISXj) are really not into reading, watching or analyzing theories! LSIs don't read if they can help it. ESIs like to read fantasy novels that are quite basic, but trippy. I think Ni-HA falls easily for trippy stuff, but they don't delve deep into weird theories.

    Like the Dune​ series, by Frank Herbert?
    "If this to end in fire, then we should all burn together. Watch the flames climb higher into the night."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chacha View Post
    Fe → Why would Fe HA manifest itself as attention seeking? What is the reasoning behind it? Fe is the ethics of emotion, the ability to influence others mood. I would rather say that these types over estimate their ability to understand and impact positively the emotional atmosphere.

    Otherwise the others definitions seems okay.
    Have you met Fe-HA people before?

    I know one who slams his fist on a table and screams randomly, and then laughs like nothing ever happened after everyone jumps. The reaction from others, shake them up, gives em pleasure.
    "If this to end in fire, then we should all burn together. Watch the flames climb higher into the night."

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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    Maybe not "the world"...maybe just "us" (as in the immediate surroundings), or "this" (the events unfolding), or "your world", or even better ... "our world".

    The story line; the narratives past, present and future.
    Oh I sometimes like the area of the "the world" too to analyse it from a Ni standpoint. But yeah all that, too.

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    I totally relate to what muddytextures said about Si hidden agenda... pretty good one imo
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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    Have you met Fe-HA people before?

    I know one who slams his fist on a table and screams randomly, and then laughs like nothing ever happened after everyone jumps. The reaction from others, shake them up, gives em pleasure.
    Maybe. Tbh I don't like to use life examples because there's no guarantee that the person got her type right. But I do have a friend who I suspect to be ILE. He see himself as a helpful and considerate person, but the truth is that actually he don't perceive other people mood well. He's quite oblivious to the emotional atmosphere but at the same time he over estimate his "empathy".

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst
    Yeah I relate to that except that I do know when to take action in terms of deadlines. I have like some instinctual sense of timing that stuff. And yeh lol.
    Indeed, here I just quoted the wikisocion definition. Imo I think that it has more to do with causality than time in a practical sense. But LSIs are Se-ego and therefore they will be more inclined to perceive the direct kinetic energy of the environment, rather than the development of processes. Also the Hidden Agenda effect will over estimate these abilities of course. But xSIs aren't bad at Ni per se, the worst problem remain Fe and Te for them. I guess that SxEs would be way more impulsive and unable to understand correctly the impact of their actions and willpower.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nondescript View Post
    What kind of Fantasy novels, pray tell?
    Do you want book suggestions? An ESI friend got me into the Alanna of Tortall series, it's YA fiction but really good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    But wouldn't a real intuitive be able to easily see the flaws in such sketchy theories immediately? I can easily do so, but I don't bother in debating it with my brother because there is no point. You could argue that it is more about weak logic but there is no chance in hell my brother is an ethical type, he is very clearly a cold-blooded type. I've noticed this with other ST types as well, not just LSIs. I once had someone who seemed like an ESTx tell me about how he thought aliens were controlling the government. The fact that they don't bother delving deep into such things is exactly why they can have these weird beliefs. Their weak intuition gives them a limited range of knowledge about such things and therefore they are more likely to accept the first thing they hear as truth.
    Well there are always weirdos that like talking about aliens and conspiracies, it could even be NTR.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velvet View Post
    There are also LSIs who can read the entire library and do go into a lot of no-basic theories. Sorry.
    You don't have to apologize, but I really do think those could be ILIs, or a rare LSI-Te, if they even exist. It's hard to tell the difference between LSI and ILI.

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