Member Questionnaire (Pa3s)

[Pa3s]

Member Questionnaire 1 (Pa3s)

What is beauty? What is love?

Beauty is essentially order. It's an impression which occurs when the world around you conforms to your inherent notion of how things are supposed to be. Even if you rejected (hierarchical) order itself, the "chaos" you'd prefer is simply another form of order which is devoid of human control. The type of order I'm referring to works on a meta-level and exists beyond human evaluation.

I don't have a high regard of love, as it's simply another natural mechanism in my opinion. I wouldn't go so far and say that love is a biological "trick", because I don't think there is a sentient being who tries to manipulate people and animals. However, love definitely is a very functional and effective (albeit not perfect) biological program. It keeps families together and makes parents take care of their children. It caught on because it proved to be useful for survival. Our society mirrors this importance as different concepts of love occupy large portions of many people's minds.

What are your most important values?

I'm rather egalitarian and advocate social justice (within reasonable limits). Also, independence/freedom is very important to me. However, freedom is always a compromise. Total freedom can only exist for individual at the expense of other people's freedom.

Do you have any sort of spiritual/religious beliefs, and why do you hold (or don't) those beliefs in the first place?

I'm an agnostic atheist and I belive in philosophical materialism (i.e. the belief that only matter exists and everything that occurs can be traced back to it). This is my take on finding answers to questions which can't be sufficiently answered. This makes sense, judging from what I (assume to) know.

Opinion on war and militaries? What is power to you?

Power can be concentrated or spread, but it never goes away. If we build a society completely on the basis of equality with everyone having the same amount of power, it will not last long. It will either be destroyed by an emerging threat from the inside, or by a foreign power which can concentrate the collective power of its people more effectively.

Albert Einstein said it best: “Organized power can be opposed only by organized power. Much as I regret this, there is no other way.”

War is a part of life, just like death. The military is simply a tool for societies to negotiate with different means.

What have you had long conversations about? What are your interests? Why?

I can have long conversations about different topics, but mostly about subjects which are unusual and force people to think about the fundamentals of life or society. How will the universe end? What if all electronic devices suddenly stopped working? Will humanity destroy itself? How will strong A.I. affect our lives? How much of our personality is genetic? Do we have free will? Are ethical decision even possible? Sure, I can talk about cars or the weather as well, but those conversations aren't usually very long.

To be honest though, the "conversations" I have with people tend to be more like monologues as I prefer to figure things out myself and form my own opinions without the input of others. But people tend to be interested in what I have to say (or that's what I think, at least).

Interested in health/medicine as a conversation topic? Are you focused on your body?

I think some aspects of health/medicine are definitely interesting to talk about. However, I don't think I'm much focused on my body. Apart from my personal hygiene and picking the right clothes, it's usually not my first priority.

What do you think of daily chores?

I don't really have daily chores except for taking showers, cooking and brushing my teeth. I do the things which need to be done when I'm ready to do them. Often late, but only if the delay does not cause negative consequences. Even if they are just petty tasks and I actually feel good after doing them, they are annoying and I put them off whenever possible.

Books or films you liked? Recently read/watched or otherwise. Examples welcome.

One movie I recently watched and really liked was Ghost in the Shell.

What has made you cry? What has made you smile? Why?

I remember crying due to stress. It was a situation full of new impressions and procedures. I had several minor problems at that time which made it much more difficult for me to deal with the situation in my own way. That made me lose my peace of mind and I felt exhausted and nervous all the time.

I certainly smile more often than I cry, but most people would probably say that I still smile very rarely. Nice people make me smile, also dumb jokes or clever remarks.

Where do you feel: at one with the environment/a sense of belonging?

Being alone usually does that for me. I'm not a very gregarious person, although I certainly enjoy the company of friends and family. But still, I feel most connected with the environment/"universe" when I'm alone with my thoughts and nobody interferes. That's why I like the late evening/night so much: nobody wants you to do something all of a sudden.

If I think about this place and try to imagine it, I see myself alone, walking though a vast, dead, empty area. Like a desert or a surreal landscape.

What have people seen as your weaknesses? What do you dislike about yourself?

Most of my weaknesses lie in the interpersonal area. I'm bad at maintaning friendships or initiating contact. I'm oblivious when it comes to interpreting relationships between me and other people. I'm a horrible networker. I just don't care enough.

I also have minimal aspirations as I don't know much in life which is really worth the effort. Or rather: I lack the motivation for long-term projects. It sounds depressing, but I don't feel bad about it at all (at least right now).

I don't really dislike any of these traits, as I believe that nobody is perfect and we all have our shortcomings in some aspect or another. To me, my weaknesses are as much a part of myself as my strengths are. They help to define me. Being upset about them would be the same as being upset about the moon because it has craters rather than a smooth surface. It's of no use.

What have people seen as your strengths? What do you like about yourself?

I think people like that I'm dependable and ready to help. Even if I'm often sarcastic I don't intentionally hurt people. When I have a task at hand, I usually do put a lot of effort in it and try to do my best. I like that I can find my own answers when I search long enough and that I'm usually able to make decent/rational decisions. I don't have many desires which makes life a lot easier for me.

In what areas of your life would you like help?

It's always good to have someone knowledgeable/sensible to ask if I need a advice on anything. Nothing specific comes to mind, though.

Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.

I sometimes feel like that when the solution to a problem is beyond my influence. Like finding a job. This tends to get annoying, because you can only do so much to work on the issue. If it will work out the way you want ultimately depends on the decision of other people.

I my personal life, I'm almost never bored. I can always find something interesting to do.

What qualities do you most like and dislike in other people? What types do you get along with?

The traits I value most in people are sincerity, dependability and integrity. I tend to get along with most people since I'm very undemanding when it comes to simple coexistence. I simply avoid the people I don't like. Regarding friends, however, I do have pretty high standards.

How do you feel about romance/sex? What qualities do you want in a partner?

Rather indifferent. I believe that my partner needs to be very similar to me (and understand me intuitively) or else I'd constantly have to make compromises while still not being the person my partner would want to be with. She should be a honest, independent and intelligent person but also genuinely friendly. I can't stand conceited bitches.

If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?

If I had a child, I'd teach them to see things as they are and not how they are interpreted by some people. This is easier said than done and I struggle with it myself, but this is a valuable advice for life. I'd say something like "Know yourself, accept the things you can't change and do what you think is right". Everything else is secondary.

A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward and outward reaction?

That's usually no problem. Actually, it makes the issue more interesting and I probably would like to discuss it, even if it involved a very controversial topic. It would be pretty boring if everyone always agreed with me. However, it would be good if people I like agreed with my values and such, as conflicting values can sometimes pose a (permanent) problem in relationships.

Describe your relationship to society. How do you see people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.

I could say that I exist outside of society, but I actually don't think that this is true. Everyone is in some way part of society, even if they rarely interact with its other members. Society can be seen as a large organism, like a colony of bacteria. We're all humans and focus mainly on our individual life, while involuntarily shaping and modifying the superoganism of the human race at the same time. I wouldn't say that society has certain problems, it just exists within the present conditions.

How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them?

This is something intuitive, it's just a matter of vibe. If I feel like I can easily communicate with them and we think alike, we have good chances to become friends. When I'm with friends I can behave naturally. Friends are the people who are the least annoying.

How do you behave around strangers?

Quiet and reserved. I don't like meeting new people.

[Aylen]

An ILI with delta-like values.

[Pa3s]

An ILI with delta-like values.

Thanks for your reply. What made you think ILI instead of the other possible types?

[Myst]

4D Ti... Fe PoLR works too but I can't see if ILI or SLI?

I'll kinda have to agree with @Aylen

Do you see yourself as Ne dual seeking or more Se Ds?

[Pa3s]

Do you see yourself as Ne dual seeking or more Se Ds?

I checked the information from Wikisocion again and there is some truth in both descriptions, even though I don't think I'm that "oblivious" to future possibilities as the SLI is described to be. I'm also not handling spontaneity very well, as the ILI apparently does.

 

ILIs are often characterized by their inertia. If left to their own devices, they may choose to do relatively little to interact with the outside world. When they do interact, they often find their activities empty and unsatisfying. To ILIs, life is characterized by periods of stimulation. True stimulation is spontaneous, and the intervals between periods of stimulation are often characterized by tedium, inertia, and apathy. ILIs are not very adept at finding new areas of interest, and may seek to continue to reproduce past experiences instead of moving on to new things. In order to break out of this cycle, ILIs require an active, external, spontaneous stimulus. This spontaneity allows the ILI to discover new experiences and escape from the confines of his own mind.
ILIs are also very indecisive. They may lack the ability to make important decisions, especially regarding their own future. ILIs do not always know what they want out of life and may have difficulty setting or achieving long term goals. In order to act, the ILI needs a clear, tangible signal from somebody who is well grounded in external reality and knows exactly what must be done in a certain situation.
ILIs may consider work-related or intellectual pursuits important in the long term, but not in the short term. Even so, losing himself in these interests will rarely suffice as a true replacement for the discomfort that he may feel at his lack of decisiveness or inertia.

 

SLIs are typically focused on what they are experiencing inside and are rarely aware of what qualities people around them might notice in them or how much curiosity (whether desired or undesired) their behavior and statements might arouse in others. They are genuinely surprised to learn that they have been studied carefully and "figured out" at a distance by people they barely knew existed. Yet they do not feel threatened by this, but rather flattered or entertained.
SLIs have a hard time recognizing and taking advantage of opportunities that do not already lie under their noses. They tend to be naive in their expectations for the future and put little effort into putting themselves into strategic positions where they will be able to seize opportunities when the right time comes, or minimize their losses if things turn against them. They are drawn to people who have a well-developed imagination and foresight and can plan many steps ahead. SLIs often subconsciously expect others to motivate them towards something new as they find it difficult to spur themselves into action.
SLIs knowledge of people comes from direct personal experience rather than detached study and comparison with others, and they are largely oblivious to people until they have interacted with them one-on-one. SLIs find it difficult to give accurate general descriptions of people's personalities that would ring true to other people, but they know what the person "feels like" in interaction. They appreciate people who are both able to offer a fresh perspective and incorporate the perspectives of the SLI. They always want to expand upon their interests, and love it when they find new information that strengthens their knowledge base. SLIs are playful with "what if" situations and derive much of their sense of humor from this.
SLIs, like the other IP temperaments, can go through phases of inertia if nothing new is presented to them. They will hang on to their everyday routine if they cannot find a new hobby or activity, which proves difficult for them to do on their own. SLIs enjoy brainstorming and sharing ideas between people, no matter how trivial and 'impossible' they may be, and are often satisfied with the simple discussion of these things. When new opportunities hit them in the face they become overjoyed and delighted, and expend a great deal of work to materialize them.

Bold = true
underlined = false

[Aylen]

Thanks for your reply. What made you think ILI instead of the other possible types?

Heh, I was afraid you would ask me that. Ok, it was more of a vibe based on what I perceived as a poetic Ni undertone in your answers but what I couldn't reconcile was the delta leaning values but that might also just be Fi valuing in general that I picked up on. If it becomes clearer I will add it later,

[Aylen]

4D Ti... Fe PoLR works too but I can't see if ILI or SLI?

I'll kinda have to agree with @Aylen

Do you see yourself as Ne dual seeking or more Se Ds?

Even his avatar is Fe polr.

[Sol]

make a video if you want typing with reasonable chances to be correct

[Pa3s]

Heh, I was afraid you would ask me that. Ok, it was more of a vibe based on what I perceived as a poetic Ni undertone in your answers but what I couldn't reconcile was the delta leaning values but that might also just be Fi valuing in general that I picked up on. If it becomes clearer I will add it later,

That's alright. No problem if you can't quite pin it down.

[nondescript]

Member Questionnaire 1 (Pa3s)

What is beauty? What is love?

Beauty is essentially order. It's an impression which occurs when the world around you conforms to your inherent notion of how things are supposed to be. Even if you rejected (hierarchical) order itself, the "chaos" you'd prefer is simply another form of order which is devoid of human control. The type of order I'm referring to works on a meta-level and exists beyond human evaluation.

I don't have a high regard of love, as it's simply another natural mechanism in my opinion. I wouldn't go so far and say that love is a biological "trick", because I don't think there is a sentient being who tries to manipulate people and animals. However, love definitely is a very functional and effective (albeit not perfect) biological program. It keeps families together and makes parents take care of their children. It caught on because it proved to be useful for survival. Our society mirrors this importance as different concepts of love occupy large portions of many people's minds.

What are your most important values?

I'm rather egalitarian and advocate social justice (within reasonable limits). Also, independence/freedom is very important to me. However, freedom is always a compromise. Total freedom can only exist for individual at the expense of other people's freedom.

Do you have any sort of spiritual/religious beliefs, and why do you hold (or don't) those beliefs in the first place?

I'm an agnostic atheist and I belive in philosophical materialism (i.e. the belief that only matter exists and everything that occurs can be traced back to it). This is my take on finding answers to questions which can't be sufficiently answered. This makes sense, judging from what I (assume to) know.

Opinion on war and militaries? What is power to you?

Power can be concentrated or spread, but it never goes away. If we build a society completely on the basis of equality with everyone having the same amount of power, it will not last long. It will either be destroyed by an emerging threat from the inside, or by a foreign power which can concentrate the collective power of its people more effectively.

Albert Einstein said it best: “Organized power can be opposed only by organized power. Much as I regret this, there is no other way.”

War is a part of life, just like death. The military is simply a tool for societies to negotiate with different means.

What have you had long conversations about? What are your interests? Why?

I can have long conversations about different topics, but mostly about subjects which are unusual and force people to think about the fundamentals of life or society. How will the universe end? What if all electronic devices suddenly stopped working? Will humanity destroy itself? How will strong A.I. affect our lives? How much of our personality is genetic? Do we have free will? Are ethical decision even possible? Sure, I can talk about cars or the weather as well, but those conversations aren't usually very long.

To be honest though, the "conversations" I have with people tend to be more like monologues as I prefer to figure things out myself and form my own opinions without the input of others. But people tend to be interested in what I have to say (or that's what I think, at least).

Interested in health/medicine as a conversation topic? Are you focused on your body?

I think some aspects of health/medicine are definitely interesting to talk about. However, I don't think I'm much focused on my body. Apart from my personal hygiene and picking the right clothes, it's usually not my first priority.

What do you think of daily chores?

I don't really have daily chores except for taking showers, cooking and brushing my teeth. I do the things which need to be done when I'm ready to do them. Often late, but only if the delay does not cause negative consequences. Even if they are just petty tasks and I actually feel good after doing them, they are annoying and I put them off whenever possible.

Books or films you liked? Recently read/watched or otherwise. Examples welcome.

One movie I recently watched and really liked was Ghost in the Shell.

What has made you cry? What has made you smile? Why?

I remember crying due to stress. It was a situation full of new impressions and procedures. I had several minor problems at that time which made it much more difficult for me to deal with the situation in my own way. That made me lose my peace of mind and I felt exhausted and nervous all the time.

I certainly smile more often than I cry, but most people would probably say that I still smile very rarely. Nice people make me smile, also dumb jokes or clever remarks.

Where do you feel: at one with the environment/a sense of belonging?

Being alone usually does that for me. I'm not a very gregarious person, although I certainly enjoy the company of friends and family. But still, I feel most connected with the environment/"universe" when I'm alone with my thoughts and nobody interferes. That's why I like the late evening/night so much: nobody wants you to do something all of a sudden.

If I think about this place and try to imagine it, I see myself alone, walking though a vast, dead, empty area. Like a desert or a surreal landscape.

What have people seen as your weaknesses? What do you dislike about yourself?

Most of my weaknesses lie in the interpersonal area. I'm bad at maintaning friendships or initiating contact. I'm oblivious when it comes to interpreting relationships between me and other people. I'm a horrible networker. I just don't care enough.

I also have minimal aspirations as I don't know much in life which is really worth the effort. Or rather: I lack the motivation for long-term projects. It sounds depressing, but I don't feel bad about it at all (at least right now).

I don't really dislike any of these traits, as I believe that nobody is perfect and we all have our shortcomings in some aspect or another. To me, my weaknesses are as much a part of myself as my strengths are. They help to define me. Being upset about them would be the same as being upset about the moon because it has craters rather than a smooth surface. It's of no use.

What have people seen as your strengths? What do you like about yourself?

I think people like that I'm dependable and ready to help. Even if I'm often sarcastic I don't intentionally hurt people. When I have a task at hand, I usually do put a lot of effort in it and try to do my best. I like that I can find my own answers when I search long enough and that I'm usually able to make decent/rational decisions. I don't have many desires which makes life a lot easier for me.

In what areas of your life would you like help?

It's always good to have someone knowledgeable/sensible to ask if I need a advice on anything. Nothing specific comes to mind, though.

Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.

I sometimes feel like that when the solution to a problem is beyond my influence. Like finding a job. This tends to get annoying, because you can only do so much to work on the issue. If it will work out the way you want ultimately depends on the decision of other people.

I my personal life, I'm almost never bored. I can always find something interesting to do.

What qualities do you most like and dislike in other people? What types do you get along with?

The traits I value most in people are sincerity, dependability and integrity. I tend to get along with most people since I'm very undemanding when it comes to simple coexistence. I simply avoid the people I don't like. Regarding friends, however, I do have pretty high standards.

How do you feel about romance/sex? What qualities do you want in a partner?

Rather indifferent. I believe that my partner needs to be very similar to me (and understand me intuitively) or else I'd constantly have to make compromises while still not being the person my partner would want to be with. She should be a honest, independent and intelligent person but also genuinely friendly. I can't stand conceited bitches.

If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?

If I had a child, I'd teach them to see things as they are and not how they are interpreted by some people. This is easier said than done and I struggle with it myself, but this is a valuable advice for life. I'd say something like "Know yourself, accept the things you can't change and do what you think is right". Everything else is secondary.

A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward and outward reaction?

That's usually no problem. Actually, it makes the issue more interesting and I probably would like to discuss it, even if it involved a very controversial topic. It would be pretty boring if everyone always agreed with me. However, it would be good if people I like agreed with my values and such, as conflicting values can sometimes pose a (permanent) problem in relationships.

Describe your relationship to society. How do you see people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.

I could say that I exist outside of society, but I actually don't think that this is true. Everyone is in some way part of society, even if they rarely interact with its other members. Society can be seen as a large organism, like a colony of bacteria. We're all humans and focus mainly on our individual life, while involuntarily shaping and modifying the superoganism of the human race at the same time. I wouldn't say that society has certain problems, it just exists within the present conditions.

How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them?

This is something intuitive, it's just a matter of vibe. If I feel like I can easily communicate with them and we think alike, we have good chances to become friends. When I'm with friends I can behave naturally. Friends are the people who are the least annoying.

How do you behave around strangers?

Quiet and reserved. I don't like meeting new people.

You seem like a SOCIAL introvert. But that's another thing entirely. Do you see yourself as a COGNITIVE introvert?

[Pa3s]

make a video if you want typing with reasonable chances to be correct

You're most likely right, but I think I'm going to pass on this one. Making a video is too much of a hassle right now. Thanks though.

You seem like a SOCIAL introvert. But that's another thing entirely. Do you see yourself as a COGNITIVE introvert?

It depends on what you mean by that. Are you asking if I'm an introvert strictly socionics-wise (by having a Xi function as #1)? Tbh, I never seriously considered not being one.

[Myst]

I checked the information from Wikisocion again and there is some truth in both descriptions, even though I don't think I'm that "oblivious" to future possibilities as the SLI is described to be. I'm also not handling spontaneity very well, as the ILI apparently does.

Think of this more like, which one would be really helpful to you if your dual had it. Se or Ne?

Anyway, what throws me off a bit here is that you give a lot of N leaning answers but otherwise Si/Ne delta values would make sense too... or just the Fi with low Se.

Do you relate to Static or Dynamic dichotomy more?

[nondescript]

You're most likely right, but I think I'm going to pass on this one. Making a video is too much of a hassle right now. Thanks though.



It depends on what you mean by that. Are you asking if I'm an introvert strictly socionics-wise (by having a Xi function as #1)? Tbh, I never seriously considered not being one.

Social introvert = a person who shies away from the society
Cognitive introvert = a subjective, inward focused person(NOT necessarily soc.intro mind you!)

[Pa3s]

Think of this more like, which one would be really helpful to you if your dual had it. Se or Ne?

Anyway, what throws me off a bit here is that you give a lot of N leaning answers but otherwise Si/Ne delta values would make sense too... or just the Fi with low Se.

Do you relate to Static or Dynamic dichotomy more?

I think out of those two, I'd need more help with Se. Judging from what Ne stands for, I don't seem to have serious problems with it. In other words, I'm worse in tasks that require strong Se than in Ne-based tasks. Guess that points to ILI.

I'm not really sure about static vs. dynamic, but I'm slightly leaning to dynamic.

Social introvert = a person who shies away from the society
Cognitive introvert = a subjective, inward focused person(NOT necessarily soc.intro mind you!)

Pretty sure I'm both.

[Myst]

I think out of those two, I'd need more help with Se. Judging from what Ne stands for, I don't seem to have serious problems with it. In other words, I'm worse in tasks that require strong Se than in Ne-based tasks. Guess that points to ILI.

I'm not really sure about static vs. dynamic, but I'm slightly leaning to dynamic.

Maybe I remember wrong but didn't you type as SLI before? What made you unsure?

[Pa3s]

Maybe I remember wrong but didn't you type as SLI before? What made you unsure?

You're right, I typed SLI before and the majority of the forum agreed (and probably still does). I just thought that it's been a while since I've been inactive on the forum for some time now. Besides, I never filled out this questionnaire and I was in the mood to do it. That being said, I don't necessarily need to find a (new) type or anything right now, I was just doing it for fun. Suggestions are welcome and appreciated of course.

[glam]

i think some kind of IxTx/Cold-blooded type is pretty clear.

some things that stand out to me: the need/desire to be alone and independent - with your thoughts, contemplating things and forming your own opinions without needing others' input. having a minimal amount of desires, demands on others, and ambitions. the way you defined love sounds hyper-logical - it kind of reminds me of how Ti types sometimes try to rationalize and understand their weak/devalued Fi. i would think ILI or SLI would talk about love in a different way, almost putting it on a pedestal, since it's related their Fi HA "to love".

much of what you wrote here reminds me of this LII type description: http://www.socionics.com/prof/intj.htm

ETA: the SLI description sounds good too: http://www.socionics.com/prof/istp.htm

i'm not necessarily saying you're LII or not, but i think it's worth pointing out these things. since you typed SLI for so long, i tried to read this without assuming that you're Delta and Fi/Si/Te/Ne-valuing. however i wouldn't be surprised if you still turn out to be SLI, or any of the IxTx types - you probably have considered these the most anyway (:

[Adam Strange]

In my own experience, SLI's constantly manage (conserve) the resources that come their way, constantly withdraw from personal contact (does your cell phone say "the mailbox for this number has not been set up yet"?), and value dependability and predictability in themselves and in others above all other traits. Unlike ILI's, SLI's have a hard time imagining the future, in the sense of imagining it for the purpose of creating it. They pretty much take things one day at a time. SLI's are much more about getting resources and never letting go, ILI's are more about planning world domination while hiding behind the curtains. Both types can do without people and have just a few friends, but SLI's can be very hurt when people leave them, and ILI's don't expect people to like them. SLI's are also better dressers, and can't wait to be old. Very old.
Pretty sure you're not LII.
From your questionnaire and avatar, you look SLI to me.

So, for your entertainment, consider your reaction to the following: The increasing complexity of modern life is increasing costs to societies (just to keep things running and to deal with the pollution), and the increasing need for and costs of education to maintain this complexity is driving up the cost of children and therefore people are having fewer of them, which means fewer consumers in the future, so the growth of production (no new consumers, no new production needed) is going to stall in our lifetime. Since the elites will always use all their power to hold onto their wealth, they will increasingly turn to legal means to create legal (not natural) monopolies and privatize publicly-created wealth, like utilities and water works (Instead of innovating to gain new markets) and will create increasingly punitive laws to push workers wages and rights down (eliminate debt forgiveness through bankruptcy, tax labor not capital, eliminate inheritance taxes, permit the relocation of non-professional jobs to low cost countries), so the workers can't make claims to the existing, ever-consolidating wealth.

If you are SLI, you will read the above and not think much of anything, but may look for articles which counter or corroborate that world view, particularly if they discuss the degradation of human rights.
If you are ILI, you will read the above, modify it based on some additional facts you may know, and will try to figure out how to best survive in that world.

[Myst]

You're right, I typed SLI before and the majority of the forum agreed (and probably still does). I just thought that it's been a while since I've been inactive on the forum for some time now. Besides, I never filled out this questionnaire and I was in the mood to do it. That being said, I don't necessarily need to find a (new) type or anything right now, I was just doing it for fun. Suggestions are welcome and appreciated of course.

I asked you about Static/Dynamic because the other type that came to mind when reading was LII. What did you have against a LII typing originally if anything?

i think some kind of IxTx/Cold-blooded type is pretty clear.

some things that stand out to me: the need/desire to be alone and independent - with your thoughts, contemplating things and forming your own opinions without needing others' input. having a minimal amount of desires, demands on others, and ambitions. the way you defined love sounds hyper-logical - it kind of reminds me of how Ti types sometimes try to rationalize and understand their weak/devalued Fi. i would think ILI or SLI would talk about love in a different way, almost putting it on a pedestal, since it's related their Fi HA "to love".

Yeah. Also the very first answer to the questionnaire surprised me.

[Pa3s]

i think some kind of IxTx/Cold-blooded type is pretty clear.

Yeah, definitely.

some things that stand out to me: the need/desire to be alone and independent - with your thoughts, contemplating things and forming your own opinions without needing others' input. having a minimal amount of desires, demands on others, and ambitions. the way you defined love sounds hyper-logical - it kind of reminds me of how Ti types sometimes try to rationalize and understand their weak/devalued Fi. i would think ILI or SLI would talk about love in a different way, almost putting it on a pedestal, since it's related their Fi HA "to love".

Good call. I was aware of the fact that this paragraph sounded rather Ti-y and hyper-analytical. But I like to mentally deconstruct things to their smallest elements. I do value friendships and deep bonds between people, but I've always been skeptical of love and how it is viewed in our media/society. When I tried to see beyond its exaggerated presentation, it occured to me that it's really not such big deal. It's understandable why it's idealized so much but after all, it seems like a fairy tale for adults (which leads to serious disillusionment when they find out how it really is).

I remember reading something like "When you dissect something, you kill it. If you put apart a flower to analyze it, you also destroy its beauty." It seems like I did just that, but without feeling bad afterwards. Also, a colleague once told me (after I explained him my views) that some things are better left unanalyzed. That was a view I couldn't share. :)

i'm not necessarily saying you're LII or not, but i think it's worth pointing out these things. since you typed SLI for so long, i tried to read this without assuming that you're Delta and Fi/Si/Te/Ne-valuing. however i wouldn't be surprised if you still turn out to be SLI, or any of the IxTx types - you probably have considered these the most anyway (:

Yes, I switched between most IxTx types for a long time. At the end of the day, there are some aspects in every type that seem to fit really well.

In my own experience, SLI's constantly manage (conserve) the resources that come their way, constantly withdraw from personal contact (does your cell phone say "the mailbox for this number has not been set up yet"?), and value dependability and predictability in themselves and in others above all other traits. Unlike ILI's, SLI's have a hard time imagining the future, in the sense of imagining it for the purpose of creating it. They pretty much take things one day at a time. SLI's are much more about getting resources and never letting go, ILI's are more about planning world domination while hiding behind the curtains. Both types can do without people and have just a few friends, but SLI's can be very hurt when people leave them, and ILI's don't expect people to like them. SLI's are also better dressers, and can't wait to be old. Very old.
Pretty sure you're not LII.
From your questionnaire and avatar, you look SLI to me.

A longer time ago, I used to dismiss SLI because of my "obvious" tendency to intuition. But then I found out that many things actually fit well once you look beyond that. I don't think that I have problems imagining hypothetical or future scenarios, though. Of course, my imagined future of the year 2070 and the actual year 2070 will be much likely very different, but this is a difficult task for everyone for that matter.

Regarding friendship: I've only been left by people I didn't want to continue having contact with, either. So I'm not entirely sure how I'd react if it happened unexpectedly.

So, for your entertainment, consider your reaction to the following: The increasing complexity of modern life is increasing costs to societies (just to keep things running and to deal with the pollution), and the increasing need for and costs of education to maintain this complexity is driving up the cost of children and therefore people are having fewer of them, which means fewer consumers in the future, so the growth of production (no new consumers, no new production needed) is going to stall in our lifetime. Since the elites will always use all their power to hold onto their wealth, they will increasingly turn to legal means to create legal (not natural) monopolies and privatize publicly-created wealth, like utilities and water works (Instead of innovating to gain new markets) and will create increasingly punitive laws to push workers wages and rights down (eliminate debt forgiveness through bankruptcy, tax labor not capital, eliminate inheritance taxes, permit the relocation of non-professional jobs to low cost countries), so the workers can't make claims to the existing, ever-consolidating wealth.

If you are SLI, you will read the above and not think much of anything, but may look for articles which counter or corroborate that world view, particularly if they discuss the degradation of human rights.
If you are ILI, you will read the above, modify it based on some additional facts you may know, and will try to figure out how to best survive in that world.

To be honest, I certainly wouldn't leave information like this unprocessed. And given that my patience to dig through other people's opinion is limited, I'd check the claims myself and see if they are likely to happen. I also have a tendency to look at the historical circumstances in which the actual events happened to better understand what lead to that development. Without the context, historical events can only be halfway understood.

I asked you about Static/Dynamic because the other type that came to mind when reading was LII. What did you have against a LII typing originally if anything?

LII is one of the types I seriously considered. It's probably the one that makes the most sense if you only look at the four basic dichotomies and leave out all the other information like quadra values, intertypical relations, information elements, Polr ect. It was also the type suggested by a self-described socionics professional (I'm not talking about "Socionics to America" but another one). However, many people on the forum dismissed the type due to my relations with forum members since I almost exclusively interacted with Gamma/Delta members. IIRC some LIIs also said I wouldn't seem to belong to their type.

Well, and socionics-wise, I don't know if Fe-ds makes sense. It's hard to believe that what I assume to be my Polr could actually be my dual-seeking function. It's similar with Se. The LII's polr could make sense for me, but that would also be the ILI's ds-function. I think this dilemma was one of the reasons why I settled for SLI back then.

[FDG]

For the record, when I met Pa3s, he seemed like a fairly personable and...warm? person. Not extroverted, but definitely not a person with social anxiety either. Like something fairly different than what you may expect from his writing. Perhaps he made and effort, but still, I was a bit surprised.

I mean my ILI and SLI friends are also personable, hell, sometimes much more than me, so yeah...whatever.

[nondescript]

Yeah, definitely.



Good call. I was aware of the fact that this paragraph sounded rather Ti-y and hyper-analytical. But I like to mentally deconstruct things to their smallest elements. I do value friendships and deep bonds between people, but I've always been skeptical of love and how it is viewed in our media/society. When I tried to see beyond its exaggerated presentation, it occured to me that it's really not such big deal. It's understandable why it's idealized so much but after all, it seems like a fairy tale for adults (which leads to serious disillusionment when they find out how it really is).

I remember reading something like "When you dissect something, you kill it. If you put apart a flower to analyze it, you also destroy its beauty." It seems like I did just that, but without feeling bad afterwards. Also, a colleague once told me (after I explained him my views) that some things are better left unanalyzed. That was a view I couldn't share.



Yes, I switched between most IxTx types for a long time. At the end of the day, there are some aspects in every type that seem to fit really well.



A longer time ago, I used to dismiss SLI because of my "obvious" tendency to intuition. But then I found out that many things actually fit well once you look beyond that. I don't think that I have problems imagining hypothetical or future scenarios, though. Of course, my imagined future of the year 2070 and the actual year 2070 will be much likely very different, but this is a difficult task for everyone for that matter.

Regarding friendship: I've only been left by people I didn't want to continue having contact with, either. So I'm not entirely sure how I'd react if it happened unexpectedly.



To be honest, I certainly wouldn't leave information like this unprocessed. And given that my patience to dig through other people's opinion is limited, I'd check the claims myself and see if they are likely to happen. I also have a tendency to look at the historical circumstances in which the actual events happened to better understand what lead to that development. Without the context, historical events can only be halfway understood.



LII is one of the types I seriously considered. It's probably the one that makes the most sense if you only look at the four basic dichotomies and leave out all the other information like quadra values, intertypical relations, information elements, Polr ect. It was also the type suggested by a self-described socionics professional (I'm not talking about "Socionics to America" but another one). However, many people on the forum dismissed the type due to my relations with forum members since I almost exclusively interacted with Gamma/Delta members. IIRC some LIIs also said I wouldn't seem to belong to their type.

Well, and socionics-wise, I don't know if Fe-ds makes sense. It's hard to believe that what I assume to be my Polr could actually be my dual-seeking function. It's similar with Se. The LII's polr could make sense for me, but that would also be the ILI's ds-function. I think this dilemma was one of the reasons why I settled for SLI back then.

It's simple. Just answer these two questions to find your polr/ds:

Power: Sexy or scary?
Open emotions: Sexy or scary?

With that said, I HIGHLY disagree with socionic Se description. Se is about being completely immersed in the moment not about brute forcing through. Ok brutus force is 1D perception of Se. Lust for power is 2D. Us 4D Se users understand what Se really is. It is the correct evaluation of experencies and that's why we are able to say "fuck you!" to bad experiences and completely immerse ourselves in good ones. This is what Ni doms are after: the sense of the moment.

Sorry for kinda derailing, but you simply have to take that into account when evaluating Se. Come to think of it...

[Aylen]

Good call. I was aware of the fact that this paragraph sounded rather Ti-y and hyper-analytical. But I like to mentally deconstruct things to their smallest elements. I do value friendships and deep bonds between people, but I've always been skeptical of love and how it is viewed in our media/society. When I tried to see beyond its exaggerated presentation, it occured to me that it's really not such big deal. It's understandable why it's idealized so much but after all, it seems like a fairy tale for adults (which leads to serious disillusionment when they find out how it really is).

I remember reading something like "When you dissect something, you kill it. If you put apart a flower to analyze it, you also destroy its beauty." It seems like I did just that, but without feeling bad afterwards. Also, a colleague once told me (after I explained him my views) that some things are better left unanalyzed. That was a view I couldn't share.

Yes, I switched between most IxTx types for a long time. At the end of the day, there are some aspects in every type that seem to fit really well.

A longer time ago, I used to dismiss SLI because of my "obvious" tendency to intuition. But then I found out that many things actually fit well once you look beyond that. I don't think that I have problems imagining hypothetical or future scenarios, though. Of course, my imagined future of the year 2070 and the actual year 2070 will be much likely very different, but this is a difficult task for everyone for that matter.

Regarding friendship: I've only been left by people I didn't want to continue having contact with, either. So I'm not entirely sure how I'd react if it happened unexpectedly.


To be honest, I certainly wouldn't leave information like this unprocessed. And given that my patience to dig through other people's opinion is limited, I'd check the claims myself and see if they are likely to happen. I also have a tendency to look at the historical circumstances in which the actual events happened to better understand what lead to that development. Without the context, historical events can only be halfway understood.

Hermit Card Symbols

A robed man or monk carrying a lantern, sometimes in hand, sometimes hanging off a staff. A barren landscape.

Hermit Tarot Story

After a long and busy lifetime, building, creating, loving, hating, fighting, compromising, failing, succeeding, the Fool feels a profound need to retreat. In a small, rustic home deep in the woods, he hides, reading, cleaning, organizing, resting or just thinking. But every night at dusk he heads out, traveling across the bare, autumnal landscape. He carries only a staff and a lantern.

It is during these restless walks from dusk till dawn, peering at and examining whatever takes his fancy, that he sees things he's missed during his lifetime. His lantern illuminates animals and insects that only come out at night, flowers and plants that only bloom by moon or star light.

As these secret corners of the world are illuminated and explored by him, he feels that he is also illuminating hidden areas of his mind. In a way, he has become the Fool again. As in the beginning, he goes wherever inspiration leads him. Back then, however, his staff rested on his shoulder, carrying unseen his pack. The Fool was like the pack: wrapped up, unknown. The Hermit's staff leans out before him now, not behind. And it carries a lantern, not a pack. The Hermit is like the lantern, illuminated from within by all he is, capable of penetrating the darkness.

Hermit Tarot Meaning

Represented by Virgo, the Hermit is a card of introspection, analysis and, well, virginity. This is not a time for socializing; the card indicates, instead, a desire for peace and solitude. Nor is it a time for action, discussion or decisions. It is a time to think, organize, ruminate, and take stock. There may be feelings of frustration and discontent during this time of withdrawal. But such times lead to enlightenment, illumination, clarity.

In regards to people, the Hermit can represents a wise, inspirational person, friend, teacher or therapist, someone the querent usually sees alone, someone the rest of the querent's friends and family may not know about. This is a person who can shine a light on things that were previously mysterious and confusing. They will help the querent understand themselves or find what it is they are seeking.

Thirteen's Observations on the Hermit

One of the important things about this card is that the Hermit is almost always shown on the move. He's never hiding away in his cave. Rather, he's out wandering, searching. This is apt for the restless mind of a Virgo, always gathering information, analyzing, making connections. Virgos are also known for being the skeptics of the zodiac. If anyone is going to stick a lantern into a dark place and take a good look at what's going on, it's a Virgo.

Combined with a desire to just "be alone," the Hermit indicates a feeling of impatience with people. The querent might be sensitive to having his/her peace disturbed, or express disdain for those who can't see what they're seeing ("Are you blind?" might be their refrain, or, more typically, "You just don't get it, and I can't explain it to you."). They're likely to be grumpy and anti-social.

For the querent, however, this is a special time. Like an artist who hides away for days then emerges to paint a masterpiece, this quiet time allows all the pieces to fall into place. Their minds are alive, and they can see things they weren't able to see before. So go ahead and encourage them to take late night drives, long walks, hide in their room or go on retreat for a month. When they come back, they'll have a new understanding of the world, of their lives, and of themselves. It'll be the best thing for them, and for everyone else.

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/learn...s/hermit.shtml

[tejing]

The vulnerable and suggestive functions are both things that you are uncomfortable engaging in yourself, but the difference comes in how you react when others do so... for the vulnerable, it annoys/stresses you, while for the suggestive, it kind of "recharges your batteries."

As for your type, I'd have to say ILI; I get that quasi-identical feel from you.

[Myst]

Good call. I was aware of the fact that this paragraph sounded rather Ti-y and hyper-analytical. But I like to mentally deconstruct things to their smallest elements. I do value friendships and deep bonds between people, but I've always been skeptical of love and how it is viewed in our media/society. When I tried to see beyond its exaggerated presentation, it occured to me that it's really not such big deal. It's understandable why it's idealized so much but after all, it seems like a fairy tale for adults (which leads to serious disillusionment when they find out how it really is).

I remember reading something like "When you dissect something, you kill it. If you put apart a flower to analyze it, you also destroy its beauty." It seems like I did just that, but without feeling bad afterwards. Also, a colleague once told me (after I explained him my views) that some things are better left unanalyzed. That was a view I couldn't share.

Sorry but this is INTx here.

Yes, I switched between most IxTx types for a long time. At the end of the day, there are some aspects in every type that seem to fit really well.

Forget about picking concrete traits from illustrations of how types may manifest. That's not what the theory is about.

LII is one of the types I seriously considered. It's probably the one that makes the most sense if you only look at the four basic dichotomies and leave out all the other information like quadra values, intertypical relations, information elements, Polr ect. It was also the type suggested by a self-described socionics professional (I'm not talking about "Socionics to America" but another one). However, many people on the forum dismissed the type due to my relations with forum members since I almost exclusively interacted with Gamma/Delta members. IIRC some LIIs also said I wouldn't seem to belong to their type.

Well, and socionics-wise, I don't know if Fe-ds makes sense. It's hard to believe that what I assume to be my Polr could actually be my dual-seeking function. It's similar with Se. The LII's polr could make sense for me, but that would also be the ILI's ds-function. I think this dilemma was one of the reasons why I settled for SLI back then.

OK if that's true about gamma/delta interactions then try on ILI. The dichotomies (for you I N T and J or P, right?) matter at least as much if not more than the other important elements of the theory. What @tejing said should help decide if your Se is PoLR or DS. I don't see it as strong enough to be the 3D Ignoring function of SLI. Same for Si, doesn't look strong enough to be 4D, 2D Si fits you (which is the Si of INTx).

[Myst]

It's simple. Just answer these two questions to find your polr/ds:

Power: Sexy or scary?
Open emotions: Sexy or scary?

With that said, I HIGHLY disagree with socionic Se description. Se is about being completely immersed in the moment not about brute forcing through. Ok brutus force is 1D perception of Se. Lust for power is 2D. Us 4D Se users understand what Se really is. It is the correct evaluation of experencies and that's why we are able to say "fuck you!" to bad experiences and completely immerse ourselves in good ones. This is what Ni doms are after: the sense of the moment.

Sorry for kinda derailing, but you simply have to take that into account when evaluating Se. Come to think of it...

It's more like, S is about being completely immersed in the moment, Se does that in an objective fashion, thus it does not mean the Se base types avoid all subjectively "bad" experiences. That there sounds like it's influenced by enneagram 7 or something like that.

[Pa3s]

FDG is right, it's actually pretty situational how I react to people. If I don't feel like socializing, people tend to notice that. But at the same time, getting to know people and even some small-talk are okay if I'm in a good mood. Most of the things I usually don't like to do are alright if I have enough time to prepare beforehand, but that's probably just a general introvert thing.

It's simple. Just answer these two questions to find your polr/ds:

Power: Sexy or scary?
Open emotions: Sexy or scary?

Displays of power are usually not very attractive to me as I tend to disregard power relations altogether. Status means nothing to me, if I met the queen of England I'd pay her no more (or less!) respect than a random guy on the street. I am usually as passive and inert as I said, but I also hate being pushed to do anything. If I get the impression that someone wants to force me, I tend to shut down completely and do nothing out of spite. If people are genuinely looking for help and really need it, I'm actually willing to go out of my way to help them. But if someone asks for just a little favor BUT is also a dick about it, I wouldn't even do that.

Open emotions are certainly a difficult topic, too, as I prefer them to remain private and not discussed. I remember being told to get "out of my shell" and deeply resenting the thought and their demanding attitude, but that could have been my "don't like to be pushed"-mentality. Ultimately, I think it's better to have someone simply offering the option to open up instead of exerting pressure.

So out of those two, I'd probably say Fe might be the lesser problem for me. But it's also possible that I have some serious misconceptions about the IEs.

:cool:

I'm just a fool with a lantern, there's not much to add. ;)

The vulnerable and suggestive functions are both things that you are uncomfortable engaging in yourself, but the difference comes in how you react when others do so... for the vulnerable, it annoys/stresses you, while for the suggestive, it kind of "recharges your batteries."

As for your type, I'd have to say ILI; I get that quasi-identical feel from you.

Thanks. I have to say that I had a pretty ambiguous impression from the self-typed LIIs I met on the forum. Some of them seemed like pretty cool people and I felt a good connection while others were rather weird and I didn't understand them very well. I guess that's true for every type, you won't get along with all of your identicals.

Forget about picking concrete traits from illustrations of how types may manifest. That's not what the theory is about.

Yes, I'm aware of that and I agree. I was just describing the situation.

OK if that's true about gamma/delta interactions then try on ILI. The dichotomies (for you I N T and J or P, right?) matter at least as much if not more than the other important elements of the theory. What @tejing said should help decide if your Se is PoLR or DS. I don't see it as strong enough to be the 3D Ignoring function of SLI. Same for Si, doesn't look strong enough to be 4D, 2D Si fits you (which is the Si of INTx).

Yeah, from what I read about both Si and Se, I don't really seem to be so strong in either of those IEs. Sure, it's a spectrum and not a black and white situation, but it still seems to point to N instead of S for me. Well, I didn't choose SLI because of the sensing, but because the typing avoided other inconsistencies.


Btw, thanks everyone for your replies. If this is getting too cluttered for you, you're free to go at any time. :)

[nondescript]

FDG is right, it's actually pretty situational how I react to people. If I don't feel like socializing, people tend to notice that. But at the same time, getting to know people and even some small-talk are okay if I'm in a good mood. Most of the things I usually don't like to do are alright if I have enough time to prepare beforehand, but that's probably just a general introvert thing.



Displays of power are usually not very attractive to me as I tend to disregard power relations altogether. Status means nothing to me, if I met the queen of England I'd pay her no more (or less!) respect than a random guy on the street. I am usually as passive and inert as I said, but I also hate being pushed to do anything. If I get the impression that someone wants to force me, I tend to shut down completely and do nothing out of spite. If people are genuinely looking for help and really need it, I'm actually willing to go out of my way to help them. But if someone asks for just a little favor BUT is also a dick about it, I wouldn't even do that.

Open emotions are certainly a difficult topic, too, as I prefer them to remain private and not discussed. I remember being told to get "out of my shell" and deeply resenting the thought and their demanding attitude, but that could have been my "don't like to be pushed"-mentality. Ultimately, I think it's better to have someone simply offering the option to open up instead of exerting pressure.

So out of those two, I'd probably say Fe might be the lesser problem for me. But it's also possible that I have some serious misconceptions about the IEs.



I'm just a fool with a lantern, there's not much to add.



Thanks. I have to say that I had a pretty ambiguous impression from the self-typed LIIs I met on the forum. Some of them seemed like pretty cool people and I felt a good connection while others were rather weird and I didn't understand them very well. I guess that's true for every type, you won't get along with all of your identicals.



Yes, I'm aware of that and I agree. I was just describing the situation.



Yeah, from what I read about both Si and Se, I don't really seem to be so strong in either of those IEs. Sure, it's a spectrum and not a black and white situation, but it still seems to point to N instead of S for me. Well, I didn't choose SLI because of the sensing, but because the typing avoided other inconsistencies.


Btw, thanks everyone for your replies. If this is getting too cluttered for you, you're free to go at any time.

Feel free to ignore other people. Just answer me:

Is it harder for you to make someone do something
or
Is it harder for you to show / modify your expression according to outside needs?

[Pa3s]

Is it harder for you to make someone do something
or
Is it harder for you to show / modify your expression according to outside needs?

It's more difficult for me to pretend I'm happy when I'm not (for example), even if I really tried and wanted to. Actually, it's almost impossible, because everyone could tell I'm putting up a facade. But I can make people understand that certain things need to be done - or else... (I did quite a few team projects, so that's not an entirely hypothetical scenario.) I try to avoid that as well, but if it's necessary, I can do it.

[nondescript]

It's more difficult for me to pretend I'm happy when I'm not (for example), even if I really tried and wanted to. Actually, it's almost impossible, because everyone could tell I'm putting up a facade. But I can make people understand that certain things need to be done - or else... (I did quite a few team projects, so that's not an entirely hypothetical scenario.) I try to avoid that as well, but if it's necessary, I can do it.

So...Fe is your weakest link?

Yeah, xLI is fine for you. Perhaps even SLI because that way Se is...get these kicks...on the IGNORING function! So, everything fits I think.

[Myst]

Ultimately, I think it's better to have someone simply offering the option to open up instead of exerting pressure.

Yeah it would be silly trying to pressure someone into opening up. IMO it should happen spontaneously

Yeah, from what I read about both Si and Se, I don't really seem to be so strong in either of those IEs. Sure, it's a spectrum and not a black and white situation, but it still seems to point to N instead of S for me. Well, I didn't choose SLI because of the sensing, but because the typing avoided other inconsistencies.

Can you quickly sum up for me what inconsistencies come up if you type as:

1) LII
2) SLI

IMO the T/F, S/N dichotomies are more important than e.g. reinins. As for PoLR vs DS function conundrum, it's clear you are not actually aware what your DS would be.

[Myst]

It's more difficult for me to pretend I'm happy when I'm not (for example), even if I really tried and wanted to. Actually, it's almost impossible, because everyone could tell I'm putting up a facade. But I can make people understand that certain things need to be done - or else... (I did quite a few team projects, so that's not an entirely hypothetical scenario.) I try to avoid that as well, but if it's necessary, I can do it.

How do you make people understand that things need to be done? Why do you need to make them understand first? (That's what it sounded like) What if they don't listen to reason?

[Myst]

So...Fe is your weakest link?

Yeah, xLI is fine for you. Perhaps even SLI because that way Se is...get these kicks...on the IGNORING function! So, everything fits I think.

I'm not quite yet seeing everything fitting.

[Pa3s]

Can you quickly sum up for me what inconsistencies come up if you type as:

1) LII
2) SLI

It's not exactly much which is downright inconsistent regarding both types. For LII, it's mainly the Fe-ds which seems to be incorrect, imho. Perhaps the quadra values aren't completely correct, as Delta values usually tend to fit better in most descriptions. And for all intents and purposes, being an intuitive type is probably much more likely for me. I'm not saying that S-types can't be interested in abstract thinking or theories, but N-stuff is much more important to me than most things S-related. This makes SLI less likely to be true, even if smaller details fit better. In any case, the j/p-dichotomy has always been the least obvious for me. Ordered from most to least obvious: I, T, S/N, j/p.

I'm aware of the fact that I won't find a 100% matching type. It's a little too much to ask for if you assume a general type description to fit every detail of your personality. It's just that these things are basic stuff and, as you already mentioned, I don't seem to have a good understanding of ds-functions for example.

How do you make people understand that things need to be done? Why do you need to make them understand first? (That's what it sounded like) What if they don't listen to reason?

Well, you're right, I'd appeal to someones reason first. It's worth a try, because it's way easier to get someone to do something if they realize why it's necessary. If they have no idea, they may oppose you for no reason. If they didn't listen, I'd confront them with the consequences and follow through if they didn't comply, either. This is a little abstract, so maybe we are referring to different things, but it's certainly a matter of context what the "consequences" might include. I wouldn't break somebody's legs because they refuse to take out the trash.

[Myst]

It's not exactly much which is downright inconsistent regarding both types. For LII, it's mainly the Fe-ds which seems to be incorrect, imho. Perhaps the quadra values aren't completely correct, as Delta values usually tend to fit better in most descriptions. And for all intents and purposes, being an intuitive type is probably much more likely for me. I'm not saying that S-types can't be interested in abstract thinking or theories, but N-stuff is much more important to me than most things S-related. This makes SLI less likely to be true, even if smaller details fit better. In any case, the j/p-dichotomy has always been the least obvious for me. Ordered from most to least obvious: I, T, S/N, j/p.

I'm aware of the fact that I won't find a 100% matching type. It's a little too much to ask for if you assume a general type description to fit every detail of your personality. It's just that these things are basic stuff and, as you already mentioned, I don't seem to have a good understanding of ds-functions for example.

I suggest you think more about which one may be your DS function It doesn't sound like it's Se, for sure, and apparently not Ne either so that leaves Fe? Otoh, what specifically makes you think Fe PoLR?

Well, you're right, I'd appeal to someones reason first. It's worth a try, because it's way easier to get someone to do something if they realize why it's necessary. If they have no idea, they may oppose you for no reason. If they didn't listen, I'd confront them with the consequences and follow through if they didn't comply, either. This is a little abstract, so maybe we are referring to different things, but it's certainly a matter of context what the "consequences" might include. I wouldn't break somebody's legs because they refuse to take out the trash.

So if someone refuses to take out the trash after you explained your reasoning to them about why it should be taken out... what next?

[Pa3s]

I suggest you think more about which one may be your DS function It doesn't sound like it's Se, for sure, and apparently not Ne either so that leaves Fe? Otoh, what specifically makes you think Fe PoLR?

Fe-polr seemed okay because self-control is pretty important to me. Showing emotions feels extremely awkward and fake (because I usually don't have very intense emotions). The best examples are top-tier football games when fellow spectators go crazy and act as if Jesus Christ has come back to earth to save all true believers. Expressing emotions in general is rather difficult, even if I'm pretty similar in that regard to a family member whom I type LSI (who would, if I was correct, actually BE Fe-seeking).

So there you have it. Maybe it's not the act of expression itself that's so difficult and awkward, but the fact that there is not so much to express most of the time.

So if someone refuses to take out the trash after you explained your reasoning to them about why it should be taken out... what next?

Stab 'em? I'm not hurting their legs, as I promised, but 1-3 stabs in the non-vital regions of the body should demonstrate how serious I am about that fucking trash.

Seriously though, I don't really know. I mean, I can retaliate later when this person wants me to do something, but that wouldn't get the current stuff done, either. But since you are a self-described Se-LSI, I'd be interested in the way you would handle the situation.

[Aylen]

Stab 'em? I'm not hurting their legs, as I promised, but 1-3 stabs in the non-vital regions of the body should demonstrate how serious I am about that fucking trash.

Seriously though, I don't really know. I mean, I can retaliate later when this person wants me to do something, but that wouldn't get the current stuff done, either. But since you are a self-described Se-LSI, I'd be interested in the way you would handle the situation.

[Myst]

Fe-polr seemed okay because self-control is pretty important to me. Showing emotions feels extremely awkward and fake (because I usually don't have very intense emotions). The best examples are top-tier football games when fellow spectators go crazy and act as if Jesus Christ has come back to earth to save all true believers. Expressing emotions in general is rather difficult, even if I'm pretty similar in that regard to a family member whom I type LSI (who would, if I was correct, actually BE Fe-seeking).

So there you have it. Maybe it's not the act of expression itself that's so difficult and awkward, but the fact that there is not so much to express most of the time.

Nothing about that is PoLR specific. That's just 1D Fe in general. What do you do when you are with Fe types?

Lol football games, I remember visiting some such game once with a good friend who was a big fan where friend got sick in the last minute and I had to go with someone else who wasn't particularly into the whole thing. I wasn't an active fan of the sport either, more neutral; don't ask why we went, I guess we didn't want to waste the tickets and it was a really rare special event. Anyway that gives context to me feeling like an outsider. So when they all went crazy upon our country scoring a goal, I just still felt like an outsider but it was such a strong almost palpable atmosphere that it took my attention so decided to try and see what it is like to join in. It's not something that's particularly easy for me to do on my own... It was cool as far as I was able to do it. I still felt like an outsider a bit and I kept the emotional control. I think it would've been easier if my friend had been there. And no, I don't type as Fe PoLR. Just low Fe with an independent mind.

Stab 'em? I'm not hurting their legs, as I promised, but 1-3 stabs in the non-vital regions of the body should demonstrate how serious I am about that fucking trash.

Seriously though, I don't really know. I mean, I can retaliate later when this person wants me to do something, but that wouldn't get the current stuff done, either. But since you are a self-described Se-LSI, I'd be interested in the way you would handle the situation.

OK I think that overall is an LII answer

Usually with small things like that, I just tell them to do it and that's enough. That's of course assuming they can do it right away etc. If it's a lazy person it can take a bit more pressuring. I may also appeal to responsibilities. Retaliation sounds like a strong word for this kind of situation. Now if it's part of a domestic fight then maybe a more fitting word lol

[Pa3s]

Nothing about that is PoLR specific. That's just 1D Fe in general.

If you want to explain it to me, I'd like to know how you describe Fe-polr. Just a few lines with the main points would be enough.

What do you do when you are with Fe types?

It's been ages since I tried to type the people I met, so that's hard to say. My near relatives are probably all Fe-valuing (I typed them IEI, LSI, SEI) and I have good relations with all of them. I don't have to adjust my behavior or anything. Maybe that's because we're all introverts, though.

Lol football games, I remember visiting some such game once with a good friend who was a big fan where friend got sick in the last minute and I had to go with someone else who wasn't particularly into the whole thing. I wasn't an active fan of the sport either, more neutral; don't ask why we went, I guess we didn't want to waste the tickets and it was a really rare special event. Anyway that gives context to me feeling like an outsider. So when they all went crazy upon our country scoring a goal, I just still felt like an outsider but it was such a strong almost palpable atmosphere that it took my attention so decided to try and see what it is like to join in. It's not something that's particularly easy for me to do on my own... It was cool as far as I was able to do it. I still felt like an outsider a bit and I kept the emotional control. I think it would've been easier if my friend had been there. And no, I don't type as Fe PoLR. Just low Fe with an independent mind.

Hm, that could be me. Where are you from? Europe?

Usually with small things like that, I just tell them to do it and that's enough. That's of course assuming they can do it right away etc. If it's a lazy person it can take a bit more pressuring. I may also appeal to responsibilities. Retaliation sounds like a strong word for this kind of situation. Now if it's part of a domestic fight then maybe a more fitting word lol

Yeah, it's not really a big issue. But my main argument would be fairness.

[DaftPunk]

@Pa3s what is typical S and N stuff in your opinion?