Some of these differences b/w types are pretty trivial. Like why do only some EXXX types have little sparkly bits around them? What do the sparkly bits even mean? Why does strongly valuing F mean you get a white button-down shirt?
Some of these differences b/w types are pretty trivial. Like why do only some EXXX types have little sparkly bits around them? What do the sparkly bits even mean? Why does strongly valuing F mean you get a white button-down shirt?
I found this site helpful. https://translate.google.com/transla...-text=&act=urlOriginally Posted by Galen
Here is what it says on result/process:
"Outcome (1.4) / processional (2.3). Scoring functions are focused on that in order to minimize the time and other resources to the action of these functions (hence - the desire to get a result as soon as possible, so the function got its name), while the processional of such a facility there, and for them a person can act as long as necessary, not counting the time lost.
In addition, the processional functions are focused on dialogue and interaction with the environment, while the productive functions of a person prefers to act alone."
I haven't been able to find much on result/process. @Megane might be able to tell you more.
I know that for myself, I am have strong preferences for result physics and process emotion. So that already narrows it down to only sexta 5 and 6 as possibililtes. Regarding physics, I rarely derive enjoyment from the process of physical work. I just want to get it done with so I can move onto more interesting things. Rarely do I talk with others about physical matters. With emotions, I feel a need for there to be an exchange- dialog. I would like to be able to share them with others but only when comfortable. I'm in no rush to finish processing them. Take as long as they will.
With logic and will it's a little less clear. I have been told that my thinking is more monologue like. I enjoy logical discussions and dialogues but ultimately in the end, I would like to arrive at the answer, the solution. Or if that's not possible, at least a clearer understanding. I have little patience for debates and discussions that don't really go anywhere. When talking with people my style is to see what point they are really getting at. I guess I don't like much idle chatter for it's own sake.
With will, it's more process like. Result oriented will is more fixated on having set goals. With 1V they decide and implement all by themselves and carry them through to the end, plain and simple. With 4V, it's a case of just tell me what to do or decide for me. With 2V/3V, there is more of a need to discuss goals and desires with other people, to harmonize their needs with others' needs and desires. They are also more inclined and willing to change their goals as circumstances change. For myself, while I certainly set some goals, they tend to be more vague and general in nature and less specific. I often find that I'm just as satisfied knowing that I'm making progress towards a goal than actually attaining the goal.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
Oh I weigh about 80 pounds. My lack of opinion does not have any dense-ity to itI suppose lack of convicting evidence is good. I'm innocent, I swear!
True. I struggle between LVEF and LEVF for this very reason. I'm leaning slightly towards the former at the moment but I could be 2E but it's subdued by the fact I'm LII with 1-D Fe.
Not sure myself either.
This is one aspect I'm pretty sure of.
I have gone through an occasional health-nut phase when younger. Now, I'm like, whatever. I want easy and convenient. If it happens to be healthy too all the better.
Anyone else want to weigh in here? @Kimuchuu @ouronis @TJay @Shay @Galen @anndelise and anyone else who has replied here or in another PY thread?
Heck, even you @echan
Get that man.!!!
I want to be ISTp.
sp/sx
These people often have an earthy, mysterious quality to them. They are slow to commit, but once they do it is with an attitude of life commitment, to the establishment of an impermeable bond. Others can be taken aback by how suddenly and completely this type can lock into them, and by the depth of understanding of the other’s condition. They attach to others at an organic, root level, in contrast to the other subvariant’s surface formality. The sanctuary of home is of paramount concern, and this type takes particular delight in decorating their spaces to reflect their cherished sense of taste and depth. Depth and discrimination characterize this stacking.
Motivation: to live in a secure, comfortable environment where they can pursue their private interests in depth.
Thanks. About 24, I don't like answering those questions because something is being made explicit I don't want to be explicit. Kinda the same thing as the smarter than friends question.
You guys are too hung up about these drawings. They should've used a series of amorphous blobs with minor differences as visual representation of each type. You can't choose your type objectively if one half looks stupid and the other half looks super pissed.
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
There's nothing to get.Oh I weigh about 80 pounds. My lack of opinion does not have any dense-ity to it
Get that man.!!!
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
I have no idea about the sparkly bits, it just looks plain goofy.
Button down shirts- I think the idea has something to do with position of F and style of dress. 1F/2F tends to dress more stylishly, more classy and the artist probably thought button-down shirts illustrate that better.
3F- tries to dress well but still ends up looking sloppy
4F- doesn't care too much about dress, looks rather casual, but not overly sloppy either.
Fair enough.
True, it's just for fun, not to be taken seriously. But I do find that certain types do tend to trend towards different sort of appearance and demeanor.
Fine, be that way.I'm not going to even tell you about Temporistika
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
It's a perception thing. I see this one as childlike and a bit naive about exploring the darkside leanings of sexta 1. S/he might gaze straight into the abyss and realize it is not only gazing back at them but ready to suck them in. Yet they remain optimistic that they can transmute all darkness. Maybe they are dumb.Also this chick looks super dumb
This is also the type I identify most with but I don't see myself in any of the images. I think Megane's friend did a great job but it is all through their perception of what each type might look like.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
No doubt about that, but I think it's rather difficult to capture these differences in one little picture. Then there's the problem of genders representing one group of types that Galen already mentioned. And I guess just using very effeminate-looking guys isn't the best solution either. More abstract representations like job-labels like "Artisan" (MBTI) or archetypical roles like "the Mystic" (Socionics) might be better. The pics certainly add to the fun and provide something for the more visually-oriented people, but the also divert the attention from the raw information. Well, given that this typology isn't exactly science, that may not no too bad after all.
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
What you guys call sparkly bits just look like flowers and butterflies to me.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
In this case I probably have a strong preference for process will. I've had a history of talking back to the people in my life who've simply told me to do stuff without providing explanations for why it should be done. 1V people seem to get riled up when I ask questions about what their ultimate goals are, like all the time spent talking about action instead of actually taking action is just time wasted.
Result E sounds not incorrect either. I've had plenty of massive expository monologues on here detailing my particularly strong emotional experiences and standpoints. Seems like some people have a stronger penchant for monologue about anything really. Nothing else fits in the 1st fxn slot anyway.
Which, obviously, leaves L+F. My impression of 4L is of a type that doesn't concern itself with drawing its own conclusions about the world, a very gullible figure who's content with blindly believing someone else's observations. Don't think I can really relate to this, but I can't imagine very many people who can relate in the first place. I know of a certain few people who would argue that I mimic all of my ideas from other forum members, but those people have long since retired from the game.
F is obvs weaker than the others, but I don't have good enough impression of what 3F is supposed to be. I guess the 3rd fxn is supposed to emphasize eliminating the negative instead of proliferating the positive. So 3F may exhibit some sort of hypochondriac tendencies? And 3L a penchant for iconoclasm?? Or Something????
God save me from Temporistika.Fine, be that way.
I don't think you need God to save you.God save me from Temporistika.
You are capable of saving yourself you beta ST.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
Yeah I don't see myself in this description at all. Optimism's tough.It's a perception thing. I see this one as childlike and a bit naive about exploring the darkside leanings of sexta 1. S/he might gaze straight into the abyss and realize it is not only gazing back at them but ready to suck them in. Yet they remain optimistic that they can transmute all darkness. Maybe they are dumb.
Yeah, I didn't think you would really vibe that much with sexta 1 either. Maybe more than some of the others but not very much.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
It's certainly possible that these sexta descriptions are about as accurate as quadra descriptions (read: not accurate)
I'm kind of both result and process. I need an explanation why things are done and get irritated when people just tell me to do something with no good reason. But I can also find myself irritated by endless chatter on how to do something than on actually just doing it.
I feel good when I accomplish some goals of mine, yet by nature I don't think I'm that much of a goal oriented person. At least not the highly specific goals the companies expect you to have in a job interview where they ask you where you want to be five years from now and writing your professional development plan.
So I guess I lean towards process but liking to achieve some result.
I think I'm more process E, but oftentimes I find myself having monologues with myself because I've got no one suitable to share with. I would prefer a dialog and exchange though.
Galen, yeah, you're probably 1E then, if no other function could possibly fit int the same spot.
It's the same for me regarding 1L. I tend up putting it in the 1st position because nothing else could possibly fit there rather than, "this is definitely me!"
I think the first function whatever it is can be hard for some people to identify because the descriptions make them sound so grossly overexaggated and rigid. 1E is an emotional wreck and drama queen, 1L always thinks they're right, never listens to other opinions, 1V just steamrolls over others and doesn't care about your wishes, 1F is greedy and gluttonous and refuses to share.
There is a shred of truth that the 1st function will tend to be more rigid and stubborn relative to other positions. It is an area of strength and confidence for us. It is more dominant than adaptive. It tends to towards monologue than dialog, so there is a less need to involve others, making it appear more 'selfish.' But of course that doesn't mean our first function isn't capable of adapting or considering others. I think one way to look at what might be your first function is to see in what way would others be most likely to be annoyed by you. And when it comes down to it, I do have occasional people tell me or suggest that I'm a little too rigid in my thinking, or I tend to 'talk down to them' even though I don't intend that.
Again, I think some of the 4th function descriptions may be a little exaggerated as well. But I think that yes, 4L, would have more of a tendency to accept beliefs and points of view of others straight away without putting much of their own analysis into it. It doesn't mean of course they cannot think for themselves.
The 3rd function, is analogous to an 'ulcer.' It's a person's sore spot, a point of stress and pain. The 3rd function is not only process oriented but it's SUPER process. It's also more dominant than adaptive yet it's weak as opposed to strong. So for 3F, they would exhibit a greater likelihood than other positions of F towards hypochondria, insecurity about their bodies, their health, their wealth, and the material world in general.
3L would have some insecurities around the logic domain. Feeling like they never know it well enough, lack of confidence in abilitly to explain, formulate arguments. May have insecurities around their level of intelligence, wonder if they really are that smart. I've read that 3L often has a penchant towards crosswords and other puzzles- perhaps as a form of validation for their intelligence. 3L is also more prone to think in unusual ways that may not correlate with what's widely accepted by society. They can also be quite skeptical.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
I've spent days wondering what my first, second, even third function was, but currently think the most important aspect is that I am probably F (Physics) last.
All intuitives are physics last.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
When I first read this I saw, "All intuitives are psychics last."All intuitives are physics last.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
hear, hear. 1E sounds likedom in many of the descriptions too, which makes it difficult for me to go with it... but i imagined that in the spirit of things, this is not always intended. also, the order of the other fcts will affect how E is expressed. for me, my 1E is more my own internal feelings and reflections, which i often keep to myself irl. even on the forum, i kind of only reveal the surface levels. i don't really need to share or express all of it to others (although i need to express it creatively or in writing) - it's for me alone often. but in really close relationships, more of it comes out, because then i want to merge and share in feelings.
i suppose the other thing, is my 1E has a negative bent to it. i don't usually overflow with positive romantic feelings. i keep those feelings fairly deep within. if i express emotion, it's more likely to be negative. (i've also noticed that i have a much higher tolerance for "negativity" than a lot of people. negativity in others doesn't really bring me down as well, so i don't feel a need to defend myself against it. i understand the suffering and pain of life - the deep wound. people who are constantly positive/enthusiastic might bother more than people who are constantly negative/depressing/gloomy - but only if i'm expected to respond to or share in the positivity.)
not that i'm totally certain. i could see E in 1 or 3, maybe 2 (except for the matter that though i can sometimes inauthentically pretend, i'm not actually "flexible" with E... my feelings are my feelings, not things i would play with for fun as i might L), but definitely not in 4. i'm still reading.
Last edited by marooned; 09-02-2015 at 04:19 PM.
Make that psychos last.When I first read this I saw, "All intuitives are psychics last."
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
I'm still trying to figure out my position of E for sure. Probably not 4. Most likely 2 or 3, could be 1. Like you, I have alot of internal feelings and reflections that I don't always share with people. I think though, that I would prefer to share with people but don't always find the suitable person or time to do so.hear, hear. 1E sounds like
i suppose the other thing, is my 1E has a negative bent to it. i don't usually overflow with positive romantic feelings. i keep those feelings fairly deep within. if i express emotion, it's more likely to be negative. (i've also noticed that i have a much higher tolerance for "negativity" than a lot of people. negativity in others doesn't really bring me down as well, so i don't feel a need to defend myself against it. i understand the suffering and pain of life - the deep wound. people who are constantly positive/enthusiastic might bother more than people who are constantly negative/depressing/gloomy - but only if i'm expected to respond to or share in the positivity.)
not that i'm totally certain. i could see E in 1 or 3, maybe 2 (except for the matter that though i can sometimes inauthentically pretend, i'm not actually "flexible" with E... my feelings are my feelings, not things i would play with for fun as i might L), but definitely not in 4. i'm still reading.
Whether or not I can tolerate negativity depends on the context of the situation and whether or not the negativity is *directed at me*. I poorly tolerate any negativity directed at me because I will tend to think that somehow I did something wrong to cause their negative state and then I'm feeling pressured to somehow fix it. I don't like being put in that awkward position. But if they're just being negative and it's not really being directed at me than I can tolerate it although I would far prefer to be around more positive people.
I am stubborn about feelings in the sense that I hate having them invalidated or even questioned sometimes. I feel what I feel and I can't make myself feel something that I don't. I am adaptive to some extent in trying to control the expression of the feelings. Trying to make them appropriate and 'acceptable' although sometimes I will feel differently on the outside than what I feel on the inside. I would prefer though to not have to fake any feelings and to just be myself emotionally without being judged poorly for it. I sometimes find myself being emotionally playful when comfortable in terms of gently teasing and joking around with people.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
a sexta or two to call home
1. Name the five things that bring you the most pleasure?
Victory, freedom, food, sex, and learning. Art can include all five.
2. Does it ever get difficult for you to express your thoughts? Why do you think this is happening (or not happening)?
Words won't convey what's meant to be expressed.
3. Do you think that you have a well-established view of the world?
Decent, but the world's changing and I can't see everything.
4. Is it easier for you to convince or persuade someone?
Easier than what? I can make a lot of noise, and maybe use money. May get person/people pissed @ me instead.
5. Did you ever have an emotional experience that have plagued you for many years?
Many, but very mildly.
6. Who do you tend to go to for help?
No one? If I'm doing shitty, I'd rather just fix things.
7. Do you feel that you are fully responsible for yourself? Do you feel that you are responsible for someone else?
"Responsibility" has dumb moral burden. I want to add more to the world than I subtract. Without the world, I die, so yes on both.
9. Do you know how to cheer up others? How about yourself? How do you cheer up yourself?
Depends on people, and for myself, it's less about cheeriness and more about equilibrium, balance, and everything being right; cheeriness will follow once the energy returns if I'm exhausted/pissed.
10. Is it more important for you to be recognized as the leader, or for everything to go your way even if it means you stay in the shade and won’t get credit?
As long as everyone/thing stays out of my way, it's all good. Accolades can be inspiring, useless, and/or counterproductive.
12. Do you think that you are smarter than most of your friends?
Yes, and they're all smarter than me. Finding out where is great.
13. Are the emotions you show always an expression of what you really feel? Do you in some cases have a tendency to suppress emotions?
If I don't hold back, it'll cause a scene, people will be emo/stupid/obstructive, and I'll have more shit to deal with.
14. What kind of people do you admire (list five to seven of their qualities)?
Strong, smart, humane, visionary, independent, bold.
15. In most cases, do you enter into a conversation with a specific purpose? What could that be?
Want to get something done, want to clarify something, want person to feel better or be closer to me usually. Spontaneous convos that happen subtly, naturally, and without official greetings are great.
16. What qualities in people do you look down upon?
Pettiness, flakiness, going backwards on decisions. Fear. Tendency for people to huddle towards other people while having no actual stability, no center, a blind and reckless bulk of mass with no pilot/s. Obstructiveness. Overdone moralizing. Overuse of "should", or "can't" when applied towards supposedly objectionable action/s already done, making the "can't" automatically false.
18. In your opinion, how attractive are you to the opposite sex? What qualities do you lack, to be even more attractive?
Enough. Lack money/give-a-damn for fade-style haircuts, don't want too much hair or jewelry (can be grabbed onto).
20. Are you good at physical work? Why do you think that is/isn’t so?
Yep. I pay attention to what I see, and the repercussions of doing/not-doing anything, down to the last fraction of a millimeter, down to the last visible grain of material. I noticed lots of other people conceptualize, use intangible units, make guesses, moralize, extrapolate, far more than I do. No idea how so much time/effort can go towards that, when there's a blatant/obvious world to constantly tend to.
21. Are you comfortable with your body? Do you think it should be more like that of others?
Body feels great, but comparing myself pound-for-pound to apes and machinery leaves me wanting. Working on it.
22. Arrange the needs in order of priority: intellectual, spiritual and material. What kind of material and spiritual needs do you have?
Material, spiritual, intellectual. Without material, this post would not exist. Need food/water/medicine (medicine as anything healing, not specifically pharmaceuical) and resources to get me a steady stream of them. Spiritual needs are hard to describe, "need" implies an upper limit, satiety; I want growth, I want more and more and more.
24. Which of your qualities are you most proud of?
Excellent ass. Also determination.
p . . . a . . . n . . . d . . . o . . . r . . . a
trad metalz | (more coming)
@inumbra Any suggestion for my E position based on my above post?
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
@woofwoofl
VFEL or VFLE. See my detailed reasoning below.
1V and 2F are very clear. I’m not as sure about your position on E or L. I could argue for both. I lean slightly, about 60% towards VFEL and 40% VFLE. 3E might be suggested in #5, #13, and #23 but not strongly so. There wasn’t a whole lot about emotions mentioned in this questionnaire, even less so than matters pertaining to the intellect which may also suggest 4E.
VFEL (Twadorski) belongs to sexta 4 and VFLE (Napoleon) belongs to sexta 3. Which one do you find fits you better?
1. Name the five things that bring you the most pleasure?
Victory, freedom, food, sex, and learning. Art can include all five.
****I see mostly V (victory, freedom) and F (food sex) here. Also some L (learning) and E (art)
2. Does it ever get difficult for you to express your thoughts? Why do you think this is happening (or not happening)?
Words won't convey what's meant to be expressed.
****True, maybe lower logic for you?
3. Do you think that you have a well-established view of the world?
Decent, but the world's changing and I can't see everything.
****Lower L maybe?
4. Is it easier for you to convince or persuade someone?
Easier than what? I can make a lot of noise, and maybe use money. May get person/people pissed @ me instead.
****V+F, lower L
5. Did you ever have an emotional experience that have plagued you for many years?
Many, but very mildly.
****I think this question tests for E3, which is prone to this.
6. Who do you tend to go to for help?
No one? If I'm doing shitty, I'd rather just fix things.
****Strong will- do it yourself. Also strong physics. Propensity for fixing things hands on- F2.
7. Do you feel that you are fully responsible for yourself? Do you feel that you are responsible for someone else?
"Responsibility" has dumb moral burden. I want to add more to the world than I subtract. Without the world, I die, so yes on both.
****Strong V. Sounds V1
9. Do you know how to cheer up others? How about yourself? How do you cheer up yourself?
Depends on people, and for myself, it's less about cheeriness and more about equilibrium, balance, and everything being right; cheeriness will follow once the energy returns if I'm exhausted/pissed.
****Sounds like V/F is higher than E for you
10. Is it more important for you to be recognized as the leader, or for everything to go your way even if it means you stay in the shade and won’t get credit?
As long as everyone/thing stays out of my way, it's all good. Accolades can be inspiring, useless, and/or counterproductive.
****V1 again. V3 tends to care more about accolades. V1 just wants to do what it wants.
12. Do you think that you are smarter than most of your friends?
Yes, and they're all smarter than me. Finding out where is great.
****Makes sense. High L would likely think they’re smarter than their friends in an intellectual sense.
13. Are the emotions you show always an expression of what you really feel? Do you in some cases have a tendency to suppress emotions?
If I don't hold back, it'll cause a scene, people will be emo/stupid/obstructive, and I'll have more shit to deal with.
****This sounds rather E3-ish
14. What kind of people do you admire (list five to seven of their qualities)?
Strong, smart, humane, visionary, independent, bold.
****I’m not sure how good this question is. Some people seem to answer in terms of qualities they already possess. Some seem to answer in terms of qualities they wished they possess. In your case, I’m pretty sure it’s the former. Strong, independent, bold could all suggest strong will, especially 1V. Strong could also pertain to physics- in terms of body.
15. In most cases, do you enter into a conversation with a specific purpose? What could that be?
Want to get something done, want to clarify something, want person to feel better or be closer to me usually. Spontaneous convos that happen subtly, naturally, and without official greetings are great.
****This question is useful for determining which functions are process vs result oriented. Process-oriented functions 2+3 seek a dialogue with a less clear end result in mind. Result oriented functions 1+4 are monolog and more focused on getting the end result.
It sounds like from this, maybe result oriented V (get something done) and result oriented logic (get clarification on something). E might be process oriented – if you’re interested in the emotional exchange that goes on in conversations.
16. What qualities in people do you look down upon?
Pettiness,
**** ?
flakiness,
**** 1V. You make decisions and expect them to be stuck to.
going backwards on decisions.
**** Consistent with 1V
Fear. Tendency for people to huddle towards other people while having no actual stability, no center, a blind and reckless bulk of mass with no pilot/s.
**** I like this description. Sounds like strong F. 2F, I’d say.
Obstructiveness.
**** 1V again
Overdone moralizing. Overuse of "should", or "can't" when applied towards supposedly objectionable action/s already done, making the "can't" automatically false.
****I’m not exactly sure how moralizing fits in the psyche-yoga model. I think it could fit with 1L actually- since their nickname is the ‘dogmatist?’ Which might suggest 3L for you, which is most likely to look down on 1L (1st and 3rd functions conflict with each other according to the theory)
18. In your opinion, how attractive are you to the opposite sex? What qualities do you lack, to be even more attractive?
Enough. Lack money/give-a-damn for fade-style haircuts, don't want too much hair or jewelry (can be grabbed onto).
****Strong F is more confident in their attractiveness to the opposite sex. Again this sounds consistent with 2F. 1F seems more likely to overdo it on their physical appearance. 2F is just right. Funny how you mention about hair or jewelry being grabbed onto. As a weak Se and 4F these are things I fail to even take into consideration unless someone points them out.
20. Are you good at physical work? Why do you think that is/isn’t so?
Yep. I pay attention to what I see, and the repercussions of doing/not-doing anything, down to the last fraction of a millimeter, down to the last visible grain of material. I noticed lots of other people conceptualize, use intangible units, make guesses, moralize, extrapolate, far more than I do. No idea how so much time/effort can go towards that, when there's a blatant/obvious world to constantly tend to.
****Sounds consistent with 2F, which tends to perform the physical work effectively with good attention to detail.
21. Are you comfortable with your body? Do you think it should be more like that of others?
Body feels great, but comparing myself pound-for-pound to apes and machinery leaves me wanting. Working on it.
****1F/2F is usually quite comfortable with their body. 3F tends to be insecure about it. And 4F is more apathetic towards it.
22. Arrange the needs in order of priority: intellectual, spiritual and material. What kind of material and spiritual needs do you have?
Material, spiritual, intellectual. Without material, this post would not exist. Need food/water/medicine (medicine as anything healing, not specifically pharmaceuical) and resources to get me a steady stream of them. Spiritual needs are hard to describe, "need" implies an upper limit, satiety; I want growth, I want more and more and more.
****This measures your priorities of F (material), E (spiritual), and L (intellectual). So it suggests for you F > E > L
24. Which of your qualities are you most proud of?
Excellent ass. Also determination.
**** High F and V, in case you didn't already know that.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
actually, this is very interesting from the site @Suz linked in the intro to PY thread.
it's just really difficult for me, trying to distinguish 1st emotion from 3rd emotion. this still seems like someone who is emotionally expressive, and basically expresses their own emotions without compromise.1st emotion - it's always a "Hurricane." Externally, such a person can look very calm and composed and do not stand out from the crowd. But it is only in appearance. If the 1st Emotions necessary, it will be very sad or very funny. And the feelings of redundancy can be expressed not only exaggerated laughter and tears flow. And the main thing for her - is inadequate, with the explicit enumeration emotional reaction to events. On the inadequacy of this can happen in the form of scandals. For example, much screaming 1st Emotion is able to and does it wonderfully!
It may well promote a product or service. Again, this is done using an emotional lift, which can not remain indifferent to the buyer. And if you have something to offer users the technical issues worked on the "excellent" and there is a demand, but the goods are not sold, it's worth thinking about bringing in his team a man with a 1st emotions. It is well known that the goods purchased, you need to tell about it. You can dry describe the technical characteristics of a computer, but you can tell really emotional, as you have done with your computer masterpiece in "Photoshop", or how your son was happy playing a particular computer game. Believe me, buy computer!
this is an emotionally flexible person, who delights in the spectrum of emotion, and with a little training can perform emotions when asked. i understand referring to it as 'the actor' and i'm sure the emotional expression will be more subdued with 1st logic. but it seems almost like this person can create a divide between their personal feelings and emotional expression, and thus express different emotions that they both don't necessarily feel at the time, and that they don't feel hurt in having to express because it allows them to practice something they find interesting (the colors of human feeling). so i guess the question for you, chips, would be how comfortable do you feel acting? are you so flexible emotionally that you can hold your personal feelings and an expression other than those feelings at the same time? (while accepting that you're not going to be an over-the-top performer probably, given 1st logic... this would be far more subtle i think for you)2nd Emotion behaves a little differently. She too strong. That's just it almost invisible in humans. 2nd Emotion is also called "The Artist." Why is that? Have you seen these artists? So here they are at the right moment can give the desired emotional response and make it very thin. In the theater, 1st Emotion play Hamlet once, and then say that she needed attitude. A 2nd Emotion can play as much as the director requires. It is the right moment to let a tear, burst into laughter, or fool the audience, and each time it will look natural. Endurance - one of the qualities inherent in it.
Of course, it helps people to the public. At work, such a person will behave adequately to the situation. Doctors, teachers, supervisors, even rescue officers it is necessary for emotional endurance. Imagine a teacher who has a class of twenty or thirty people, and is a noise, and the need to be quiet? A doctor, which come every day different people. and everyone needs not just their approach, and also the ability to empathize with where it is needed? What about recruiting manager in a large company? In general, examples abound.
i've actually been looking more closely at 3rd emotion for myself. while a lot of the descriptions (like the ones Megane provided) seem to really focus on 3rd emotion being all concerned with *everyone else's* emotions and how they want it all on an even keel all the time... this one actually is describing how the "carrier" of 3rd emotion is personally touchy about feeling. there's a high emotional sensitivity and probably often an inner storminess of upset, and this seems like a person that might be more like me. i deeply resent being asked to be like 2nd emotion... i feel hurt and cut on a deep emotional level when i can't just go on being unexpressive most of the time and when i can't express negative feelings when i need to. if the 3rd fct is the "touchy" one, then i think for me maybe E is better for this than V. in fact, probably a lot of the stuff i'm applying to 3V is actually all centered on the emotional realm anyway, lol.3rd Emotion - this is a double edged sword. On the one hand it is weak, because such people are very poorly tolerate increased noise, scandals at home and at work. But on the other - it is very sensitive. With 3rd emotions can run a family psychologist, for example. The ability to empathize with and be sensitive inner spiritual world of man gives him a quality as empathy.
At discos and concerts are people just do not go. They can be found where peace and quiet. It is in this environment, they achieve the maximum. And it is necessary to consider their superiors!
this is the clear-headed emotionally impassive person, who can at times be totally carried away by someone else's emotions if properly moved, without necessarily being able to distinguish if it's emotion they agree with or not.4th emotion. Probably, it is the most impartial of all emotions. I called her so also because in a stressful situation it seems to be "cut off." Man begins to sober reason, while easy enough, and emotional tone, you can not even see. He has no emotion you will see only "cold brains." However, the ability of the 4th Emotions adequately assess the situation, and focus on quality makes it an excellent critic. No internal taboos, dogmas awards 4th Emotion courage and at the same time a kind of indifference. Emotional responsiveness, can help and support, but it is difficult because it simply did not understand why people cry, and how he can help.
This is just a small sample of life where emotion can act. But you must be careful. For example, there are two ethics-extrovert. One of them 1st Emotion, another third emotion. Both can get along well with people, and both are focused on society, to the outside world. But some of them will be very happy to appear in public or to arrange a trivial scandal with shouts and screams. But the other, on the contrary, would prefer to shut down in his room or to leave the city, if only he was not touched.
so in short, chips, i agree with you that you are 2E or 3E. but i don't know enough about you to know if it *is* 2 or 3.
The way i understand 3rd Emotion is that even though they dont readily emote all that much, they aren't in full control of their emotions, but they feel they need to be. So even though they are described as "rusks" in the Russian descriptions (or "croutons", "dried bread"), they are vulnerable in emotional situations, where emotions just come bubbling up to the surface despite their best efforts to keep emotionally in control.
This would be in contrast to 1st and 2nd Emotion, who are in full control. 1st function is about using it for themselves. 2nd function is about sharing with others. So 1st Emotion is about sharing emotions with themselves, being in touch with their emotions, something like that. 2nd Emotion is thus about producing emotions for others. (if i understood correctly).
4th emotion is just like, doesn't care about emotions.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
@Suz, this post is kind of a crap shoot as i haven't bothered to fact check.
one thing that comes to mind is whether emoting is a strength or a weakness. i've been thinking of my mom for this example. her emotions are powerful, and when she feels strongly about something she just overpowers entire situations with her emotional expressions. i don't think she's usually in control per se when she does this, but her emotions are so in line with her desires that it doesn't matter. she's able to use this "power" to influence things in her favor (not that i think she consciously means to exactly). she is emotionally persuasive basically. i guess i wouldn't expect such an ability of E3, but the confusion is that i think (from the site you linked) it seems that some
i don't have the emotional power my mom has. i can't influence everything with my expressions of feeling. but i can sometimes elicit sympathy inadvertently if i share my hardships. i am in a lot of ways, though, an emotional suppressor. this is a bit contradictory because on the one hand i think a lot of people who don't know me have little idea of how intense my feelings actually are, but on the other hand, i often can't hide my feelings in a lot of cases (they sort of appear on my face, and somehow they're always "inappropriate" to the situation so people think i'm weird or impossible to communicate with).
i suppose i keep emotions from view in a work context because i know how much they go against the grain. i am an irritable and moody person, so i will eventually fail at keeping them from view. but i try to keep my expression of my feelings under control, not wanting the consequences for how unconventional i really am. i resort to cool emotionless expression or expression that seems to (unartfully) mirror what the other person wants (which is crossing into 2E territory, but i don't think i do it as well as 2E could...). it really depends on how much power the other person has and how much affinity s/he has towards me (if i can trust him/her, i'll actually just be pretty revealing). mainly i know i have far less power, so it's just trying to protect myself.
i guess i'm wondering if where will is affects how much control a person has over their emotions somewhat. i think a few of the types with 3E are actually described as having a lot of control, like the LVEF? the other factor is that 3E is the only one that is described as actually suppressing their emotions... and if you suppress, you invite a later loss of control because all humans have feelings. if you weren't trying to control them to begin with, you wouldn't be able to lose control. also, the need to suppress indicates covering for weakness. (?)
i guess i wonder if i would think 2E actually has more "control" than 1E. 2E artfully uses emotional expression (which i'd expect even greater ability for this with an ethical type). 1E might be "the storm," and it just comes out and can move everything in 1E's favor?
i guess i see the 2nd fct as the one that involves a lot of creative use and multitasking. this seems inherent in most descriptions regardless of what the 2nd fct is. the 2nd fct can "share with others" because of how adaptive it is (it's adaptive in a way where it is both strong and multi-faceted, and it's not as personal as the 1st fct, which is *why* it can be so multi-faceted).
I think I would enjoy it provided I had sufficient talent and training. . I am introvert though so I'm rather shy about that.
I'm also no longer sure I'm 1L. I actually relate quite a bit to 4L even though I'm Ti base.
Well going by Megane's description, I'm definitely 3E. But according to sites like this: https://translate.google.com/transla...-text=&act=url
I don't much relate to 3E because the description sounds like someone who doesn't have much emotion at all.
I've read 4E can be like this too.
I'm leaning towards 3E but it depends according to what source!
Well I'm always in touch with my emotions and I am interested in both using it for myself as well as sharing with others. Yet as much as I try, I don't have complete control over them but for the most part I keep my cool and my expression is appropriate. But occasionally I have an outburst that I later regret. I'm definitely not 4E at all. I can't imagine not caring about emotions.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
ok well maybe i used hyperbole a bit when i said E1 and E2 are in FULL control.@Suz, this post is kind of a crap shoot as i haven't bothered to fact check.
one thing that comes to mind is whether emoting is a strength or a weakness. i've been thinking of my mom for this example. her emotions are powerful, and when she feels strongly about something she just overpowers entire situations with her emotional expressions. i don't think she's usually in control per se when she does this, but her emotions are so in line with her desires that it doesn't matter. she's able to use this "power" to influence things in her favor (not that i think she consciously means to exactly). she is emotionally persuasive basically. i guess i wouldn't expect such an ability of E3, but the confusion is that i think (from the site you linked) it seems that some
The way i see it, if someone uses emotions to manipulate, that's having pretty darned good control over their emotions and using the emotions deliberately. Control of emotions doesn't have to mean like self-controlled poise. E1, E2, and E3 can all have self-controlled poise, the way i see it.
Also idk if PY "E" necessarily represents socionic Fe.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Well I don't emotionally manipulate people. Well if I do, it's not consciously.
E and socionics Fe are completely different things IMO.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
just as a point of clarification, i don't think E and
still, i find links between PY and socionics interesting. a lot of F reminds me of, for instance. i'd be interested in anyone's take on how it's not largely similar. i suppose, i think there's a lot of room to play with it. for some PY types strong F could mean being really good at earning a living for themselves (making money), for others it could mean a huge emphasis on physical enjoyment, or it could be a love of working and physical activity, or it could involve being inspired by the beauty of the physical world, or it could mean someone with a lot of vitality (a person rich with life who feels "at home" in the world), or it could mean a mechanically-inclined person, or a resourceful person, or a person greatly in touch with their physical sensations/body, or...
also perhaps relevant to this:
so it seems PY is this underlying "architecture" of will, logic, physics/vitality, and emotion. it's the sort of set-up you have. and then overlaying that would be information metabolism (what kinds of information you pick up on from "reality"). i really like looking at the two together. and i think this helps answer my earlier question.We continue to talk about typologies, on the peculiarities of manifestation of individuality of each person. In the previous article ("How not to get lost in the world of professions", "Resistance to stress in our lives"), we examined the conditional socionic division of the person on a variety of criteria (dichotomies "rationality-irrationality," "the logic of ethics", "extraversion-introversion", " intuition-sensing "), as well as talked about the stress inherent in the individual personality types. But there are additional options not covered sotsionikoy that clarify many shades of good character traits. Why do some people life is in full swing, and in other warm trickle?
Each person is unique. Sometimes stress is not enough to execute his plan. And irrationals can sometimes be very tough and consistent in achieving their goals, and ethics - too logical reasoning. Now we live in a world of information, and the information is basic, but ... insufficient. About how we perceive and process, explains socionics.
But the "energy" * man, his ability to think, to exercise willpower to create (create) the atmosphere and develop physically mentioned in the typology Afanasyev. Both typologies quite strongly linked and mutually reinforcing. Here it is necessary to stipulate that socionics working with the information that we receive every second. And it is inherent in a set of functions which are responsible for this. A psihosofiya ** describes our nature, the inner world of man, his potential. And it really looks like a "power" of a person.
Mankind has gradually evolved understanding of the internal architecture of the mind, consisting of four functions: emotions, logic, physics, and WILL. More specifically, they identified and described Afanasiev. Of course, they have always been people, but they are not all paid attention. Therefore, to better understand themselves, it is necessary to voice some things. "Will, logic, emotion and physical - set of features inherent in all people. This is what we have in common and at the same time makes it unique "- so says Afanasyev. These functions are not equivalent in man. This is the hierarchy - each of them is on their level, in their looks and in their acts.
Will - a person's ability to exercise the will to achieve his in spite of any obstacles on the way.
Logic - points to the ability to reason logically, backing words with facts and evidence.
Physics - the physical condition of the person, his gift and ability to resist disease, stress and physical stress.
Emotion - our "motor" in the human world. We light people on any case or transfer the painful scandals, increased noise - all this relates to the emotions.
And now a little more detail. Each function can be strong and weak, and depending on that is located on the first, second, third and fourth places.
The first place, of course, always honorable. That function, which is in the first place, we use all the time. She is very strong and so it is not easy to control. This is what nature has awarded us not only in prosperity, but even with some brute force.
from: http://centercep.ru/stati/55-psihoso...afanaseva.html
Last edited by marooned; 09-18-2015 at 04:12 PM.
For some reason I associate V1 with Se ego, V4 with Se dual seeking, V3 with Se PoLR perhaps (or just low self-esteem), V2 I associate with psychologically healthy.just as a point of clarification, i don't think E and
still, i find links between PY and socionics interesting. a lot of F reminds me of
also perhaps relevant to this:
so it seems PY is this underlying "architecture" of will, logic, physics/vitality, and emotion. it's the sort of set-up you have. and then overlaying that would be information metabolism (what kinds of information you pick up on from "reality"). i really like looking at the two together. and i think this helps answer my earlier question.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
1.Name the five things that bring you the most pleasure?
1. Humour
2. Mathematics/Physics
3. Women
4. Food/watching sports
5. Philosophy
2.Does it ever get difficult for you to express your thoughts? Why do you think this is happening (or not happening)?
At times - I believe this is because my thought process is extremely non-verbal. I find that I can visualize almost anything, but if I then have to translate my thoughts into words, things become ever-so-slightly "lost in translation"...
3.Do you think that you have a well-established view of the world?
No. My view of the world is constantly evolving and therefore changing.
4.Is it easier for you to convince or persuade someone?
I find that I'm quite capable of both... But something which is convincing is more satisfying...
5.Did you ever have an emotional experience that have plagued you for many years?
There have been occasions when this has happened. For instance, a rough experience with a girl that I had a huge crush on left me heartbroken for a few years...
6.Who do you tend to go to for help?
I research things on my own. I use the Internet, libraries, discussion forums... If I have to ask someone in person, I go to experts - professors, MDs, etc.
7.Do you feel that you are fully responsible for yourself? Do you feel that you are responsible for someone else?
No. I tend to shun responsibility...
8. [Unable to translate]
9.Do you know how to cheer up others? Howabout yourself? Howdo you cheer up yourself?
Others, no. For myself, I'll analyze the situation to see if it is really that bad. Often it isn't, and I simply stop worrying about it. When it is bad, I try to solve the problem. (Or divert myself with food/sports.)
10.Is it more important for you to be recognized as the leader, or for everythingto go your way even if it means you stay in the shade and won’t get credit?
Much more important that things go my way. I don't know why, but I get frustrated when things don't work out for me. On the other hand, I am not a leader nor do I seek out leadership, so that doesn't factor into my 'strategy' at all...
12.Do you think that you are smarter than most of your friends?
I would say "yes". In grade school, I was a really mediocre student. Then, in high school, I started to focus much more on career and I studied like crazy, hoping to attain a professional career - e.g., lawyer, accountant. Finally, at the end of high school/beginning of university, I got my hands on personality theories/IQ tests, and I wanted to take my 'game' to the next level. I then spent all of my time thinking, reading books, solving puzzles, philosophizing, studying - doing anything I could to push my mind to its limits... Because of this effort, I now feel that I am probably smarter than most people...
13.Are the emotions you show always an expression of what you really feel? Doyou insome cases have a tendency to suppress emotions?
I would say that I always try to put on a happy, cheerful demeanor with people - hoping to leave a good impression so that everyone leaves happy. I often supress mean,negative emotions, because I find that they usually only hurt people...
14.What kind of people do you admire (list five to seven of their qualities)?
1. Funny people.
2. Geniuses.
3. Scientists.
4. Enthusiastic people.
5. Highly innovative people.
6. Moral people.
7. Actors/athletes.
15.In most cases, do you enter into a conversation with a specific purpose? Whatcould that be?
Most conversations, I just want to enjoy things and laugh/have a good time. Sometimes, I enter into conversations in order to learn something. I will ask a question, hiding my real intentions, in order to deduce some trait/skill that people have. This is often because of my interest in personality theories. Other times, I try to put my deepest insights into the clearest language possible, simply to blow the other side away with my logic.
16.What qualities in people do you look down upon?
1. Harsh/mean people.
2. Unjust people.
3. People with no sense of humour.
4. People who are lacking in skill/intellect.
17.[Unable to translate]
18.In your opinion, how attractive are you to the opposite sex? Whatqualities do you lack, to be even more attractive?
I am probably not attractive.
19.[Unable to translate, and quite possibly way too personal]
20.Are you good at physical work?Why do you think that is/isn’t so?
I am not good. I am not good with details, and my mind is way too 'head-in-the-clouds' for me to excel at that kind of stuff..
21.Are you comfortable with your body? Do you think it should be more like that ofothers?
I am neither comfortable/uncomfortable with my body, but there is this secret wish to be stand-out attractive. It's just hard, because consciously, for reasons I can't explain, I just don't want to stand out physically.
22.Arrange the needs in order of priority: intellectual, spiritual and material. Whatkind of material and spiritual needs do you have?
1. Intellectual.
2. Material.
3. Spiritual.
Materially and spiritually, I simply desire to live a happy, comfortable life...
23.[Unable to translate]
24.Which of your qualities are you most proud of?
Intellect, innovation, creativity, logical skill, and - of course - sense of humour.
Last edited by jason_m; 08-04-2016 at 09:52 AM.
I've got it:
LEFV (Augustine)
[1L] First Logic: LEFV is very prone to absorbing the intellectual, logical and philosophical understandings of the world around them. The LEFV's thirst for knowledge, is one of the main features of this type, especially including the emphasis on new and unexplored knowledge. Also, this type tends to the construction of philosophical concepts of the world and is very interested in all types of philosophy. LEFVs are very thoughtful and intellectual people, they may also perform well in science, especially in theoretical subjects.
[2E] Second Emotion: LEFVs are quite passionate about their interests, being very polite and pleasant to talk to. For they are sometimes characterized by their very subtle sense of humor, refined sense of aesthetics; including their interest in the complex and unusual arts, such as cinema and painting. At the same time however, people of this type tend to be trapped in states of melancholy, due to their feelings of weakness based on the difficulties posed by the outside world. Their self-image is similar to the term, "black sheep".
[3F] Third Physics: The physical world brings light to the main source of difficulties for the LEFV. This can manifest itself in an effort to self-impose a strict lifestyle: constant strenuous exercise, the tendency to try to imagine different methods of fitness and training of the body, their great attention to personal health. Organizing these efforts are not always easy for the LEFV, it is not always possible for the LEFV to achieve their wants in this problematic area which only brings incredible sadness, because of their inability to overcome the weaknesses of their bodies. LEFVs are very prone to to workaholism, if no one properly assesses the work or instructs them to stop working.
[4V] Fourth Willpower: A distinctive feature of LEFV, is their exceptional credulity when communicating. When talking to them, it often seems that they are very much afraid of offending the person and are ready to fully comply with the desires of the other party, readily agreeing with them to avoid any sort of personal conflicts. The main impression they produce is that they seem like delicate and fragile creatures that are in need of protection. On top of that, their view of the world is sometimes quite sad, because they perceive the world around them as being much stronger than they are. Expostulating the world from their point of view is virtually meaningless, as they can only harmoniously integrate into the world and blend in with everyone else. Similar to the teachings of St. Augustine, which led to the formulation of the concept of destiny and predetermination.
Source: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1098928
Is this my 'dual'?:
VFEL (Twardowski)
[1V] First Willpower: VFEL is primarily inclined to dominate and seek control of everything, but most of all, they only aim to do this in the physical world. Take any object in the room, and the VFEL will introduce multiple ways on how to gain possession of that item or to figure out what actions needed to be taken to achieve control. People of this type are very well suited to the role of an administrator or a manager. The ability to insist on and obtain recognition of their innocence in their surroundings, is one of the VFEL's main skills.
[2F] Second Physics: VFEL is a sober-minded realist that inhabits the material world to the point of becoming completely immersed in their wants and needs. This can manifest itself through the love of manual labor, through the love of sports, through increased interest in military history or martial arts and in many other things. In the material world, they are able to take non-trivial solutions that can sometimes seem impossible to go through with, even with the necessary resources. If the VFEL decided to take on a complex strategic problem in competition, they would most likely suppress the resistance of the enemy, by means of the destruction of the territory where the enemy is. With all of this in mind, VFEL is able to appear very altruistic.
[3E] Third Emotion: VFEL can also be characterized by their very cold and reserved attitude to emotional displays, from their perspective, enthusiasm alone will never be enough to solve a problem. However, intense emotional displays do increase awareness, VFEL believes that emotional awareness does not really help that much when solving the existing problems. As it can only mislead people to fear the problem, instead of properly addressing it with courage. VFEL is still nonetheless prone to an overall tense and dry attitude towards people, even at slightly perpetuating rudeness in their endeavors. The primary reason for this is the VFEL's desire suppress the unwanted emotions of others. (at times they can stop these emotions rather abruptly)
[4L] Fourth Logic: VFEL are normally quite indifferent to abstract theoretical discussions, believing that their relation to the world of science is very distant, while still believing that everyone should be able to solve problems practically and efficiently, taking care of things here and now. However, VFEL is still very capable of absorbing a variety of new information, in the hope that someday it might be useful to them and always improving on their logical abilities.
(Source: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1098962)
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Because that's not really dual for me at all....
Last edited by jason_m; 08-05-2016 at 06:11 AM.
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