View Poll Results: What is Muddy's type?

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  • ILE

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  • SEI

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  • ESE

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  • LII

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  • EIE

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  • LSI

    2 25.00%
  • SLE

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  • SEE

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  • ILI

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  • LIE

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Thread: muddy's type

  1. #1
    Muddy's Avatar
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    Default muddy's type

    What is the forum consensus for my type?

    ILI seemed to fit the most except I don't really have that intellectual arrogance ILIs tend to have. I don't really see SEEs being my dual either. Opinions?
    Last edited by Muddy; 08-16-2015 at 04:26 PM.

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    you may make a typing video
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  3. #3
    silke's Avatar
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    with only 80 posts it might be too early for a forum consensus, you're still relatively new to the scene

    a few implicit clues from VI, pictures, and some of your statements are beginning to converge at LSI-Ti
    could explain why you're gravitating t/w ILI with Ni hidden agenda while alpha doesn't quite feel as your opposite quadra

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    your mudda's Avatar
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    for a second I thought this thread was about me

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    with only 80 posts it might be too early for a forum consensus, you're still relatively new to the scene

    a few implicit clues from VI, pictures, and some of your statements are beginning to converge at LSI-Ti
    could explain why you're gravitating t/w ILI with Ni hidden agenda while alpha doesn't quite feel as your opposite quadra
    I've basically cycled through all the 4D Ti types. I think LSI is unlikely though. My brother whom I mentioned before is a pretty clear cut LSI-Ti. We think and act very much the same and share many similar interest, but there seems to be a visible rational/irrational difference. I care less about the outside world and its problems then and am more out for my own pleasures. I'm not very tolerate of tedious work while he approaches it with a "gotta do what you need to survive" attitude, although he too has his limits. I'm pretty dismissive of a lot of his Ni-HA claims about things like where the country is headed and his religious claims such as thinking there are demons in society. He is more open to socializing then I am, although we are both pretty reclusive. He denouces my ILE cousin's behavior and is suspicious of him while I seem to easily buddy up with him and other Ne-doms. Everything seems to match up with Quasi-identity. The only odd thing about me being SLI is I seem to have stronger Ni (and in turn weaker Si, but I'm not Te-sub) then a typical SLI. I'm too Ne valuing to be ILI, and too irrational to be LII. Its as if I'm a SLI-Ni.
    Last edited by Muddy; 08-18-2015 at 05:06 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    What is the forum consensus for my type?

    ILI seemed to fit the most except I don't really have that intellectual arrogance ILIs tend to have. I don't really see SEEs being my dual either. Opinions?
    Same. I'm more interested in truth than being the smartest, bestest, awesomest.

    The unscientific enneagram may be helpful. For instance, I'm a 1 who sometimes integrates into a 7, which makes me sense seeking. I hit a stage when I first entered typology when I was typing as ISFP(MBTI) because of sensing engagement. It is when I become 7ish when I connect well with Se types. I think this is healthy and helps one extend and become more well-rounded.

    I really like Ne types too because they have a sense of fun and adventure much like Se types, except there is much more to talk about. Duality is not so much about who you get along with or are attracted to, although it does happen to some extent. It is how each provides the other with something they desire to be stronger at, but cannot provide or produce on their own. ILIs need a nudge to be more present and assertive and seeks to do so. While generally weaker on Ne, they do not seek to improve it, or need to. They will be good at it when use is needed, but prefers not to endlessly focus on possibilities : Ni provides the intuition fix. I think ENFps can make really good friends to ILIs, although that depends on the individuals involved.

    Now if you are SLI, ENFps will need Si from you. Do you think that is your strength? Is that something you could provide others over the long term?

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    There are many types that full of themselves and expect everyone to be just like them for them to be the same type as them .They have an extremely narrow view of real life typology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TJay View Post
    Now if you are SLI, ENFps will need Si from you. Do you think that is your strength? Is that something you could provide others over the long term?
    Excellent question.

    White (introverted) sensing

    We view an object's internal state as the relationship between events that precondition one another. This element perceives information about how processes are reflected by one's internal state. This includes the sense of one's own condition and the sensations of people evoked by this interdependence. Interaction in space is nothing more than a reflection of one object in another. Objects reflect in other objects, evoking certain sensations in one another. Such an individual perceives external information in form of sensations evoked by ongoing events. For example, the sensation of pain is essentially the reflection within a person's mind of a relationship between his functioning body and a process occurring in some part of the body that impedes this functioning.

    When this element of perception is in the leading position, the individual has the ability to change the qualities of the surrounding space and influence the sensations of people within it. He is able to avoid physical discomfort and protect others from it. This element is defined bby the ability to recreate previously experienced aesthetic sensations. An excellent example is Peter Paul Rubens, who created his paintings not from nature, but from his memory of once experienced aesthetic sensations. By paintings, he sought to evoke in the viewer certain aesthetic experiences. Such creativity constitutes the recreation of an object that is able to provide other people with aesthetic sensations that were intended by its creator. When an individual of this type is preparing something, he starts from envisioning all the associated qualities that the final product will have.

    These people are able to distinguish previously experienced aesthetic sensations from new ones. They are able to "collect" and remember them. This also presupposes that such individuals are able to contra-position their sensations to those of others, the ability to contend for their fulfillment, and the ability to mold and perfect not only one's own aesthetic tastes and habits, but also those of others. We might say that such individuals have the ability to impose their understanding of aesthetics and comfortable life on other people.

    Wikisocion description of Si

    Introverted sensing () is an irrational, introverted, and dynamic information element. It is also referred to as Si, S, experiential sensing, or white sensing.

    Si is associated with the ability to internalize sensations and to experience them in full detail.
    Si focuses on tangible, direct (external) connections (introverted) between processes (dynamic) happening in one time, i.e. the physical, sensual experience of interactions between objects. This leads to an awareness of internal tangible physical states and how various physical fluctuations or substances are directly transferred between objects, such as motion, temperature, or dirtiness. The awareness of these tangible physical processes consequently leads to an awareness of health, or an optimum balance with one's environment. The individual physical reaction to concrete surroundings is main way we perceive and define aesthetics, comfort, convenience, and pleasure.

    In contrast to extroverted sensing Se, Si is related to following one's own needs instead of focusing on some externally-driven conception of what is necessary to acquire or achieve. So, whereas Se ego types feel capable to evaluate how justified others' preferences are, Si ego types will try to adjust to them in any way possible (given that it does not extremely affect their own comfort), wishing to minimize conflict.
    In contrast to introverted intuition Ni, Si is about direct interaction and unity (or discord) with one's surroundings, rather than abstract process and causal links.

    Types that value Si prefer to spend their time doing enjoyable activities rather than straining themselves to achieve goals. They like to believe that if activities are done with enjoyment, people will give them more effort and time, and also becoming more skilled at what they are doing in the long run. They believe that goals should suit people's intrinsic needs rather than shaped by the demands and constraints of the external world, and so do not try to force others into doing things they don't want to do. They also try to be easygoing and pleasant, preferring peaceful coexistence to conflict, except when their personal well-being or comfort is directly at stake.

    as a base (1st) function (SEI and SLI)

    A strong ability to recognize internal physical states in themselves and others, to understand how these states are reached, and to recreate and avoid these physical states.

    Individuals who possess as a base function are drawn to situations that satisfy their inner physical experience. Whenever base function individuals are taking part in something that involves recognizing, recreating, or analyzing physical states, they feel a great deal of personal power and enthusiasm.

    The avoidance of discomfort is one of the primary motivations of these types. Feelings of internal discomfort can arise from a tense psychological atmosphere, working too hard and sapping the body's resources, being pressured by other people or by numerous "things to do," and from unsatiated or oversatiated physical needs. These types tend to quickly recognize and be quite vocal about discomfort that arises and either take clever measures to dissipate it or simply get out of whatever is bothering them. They are very receptive to other people sharing feelings of discomfort with them and can help alleviate the tension and offer good solutions.

    leading types are constantly adjusting themselves to their environment (which includes the people around them), and rarely have any fixed ideas about what is "appropriate" to desire in a given situation. Thus they are willing to accommodate other people's needs in an ad hoc manner. It is enough for something to "feel right" for them to justify doing it. This behavior may seem random to outside observers, since it is concomitant with weak .

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  9. #9
    Muddy's Avatar
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    Well this was the best I can for a video because of my shit phone but here you go:


  10. #10
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    Compare with ILI Si role:

    Super-Ego Block


    3. Introverted Sensing

    ILIs generally place moderate to minimal importance on such matters as cleanliness, comfort, and sensory stimuli. Some ILIs may consider them distractions. It is not atypical of ILIs to be completely uninterested by and unable to find any value in something like a fine piece of artwork. Different ILIs respond to different artistic stimuli in different ways; for example, an ILI might think painting is worthless but possess sufficient background to enjoy other media, such as sculpture or music.
    ILIs are often uncertain about the messages they receive from their bodies. An ILI might feel some irregularity in their own body and not realize its significance to the overall functioning of the body. An ILI will often try to determine the consequence of such symptoms through their own understanding of anatomy (or 'google it'), often blowing things out of proportion. An ILI's sense of self doubt may lead to such assumptions as the presence of a brain tumor as the result of a mere headache. In contrast to valuing types, ILIs are significantly less adept at making adjustments to their lifestyle to correct these minor ailments.
    Even so, ILIs are capable of placing a moderate focus on maintaining their physical comfort. ILIs often construct a lifestyle based on various activities that feed their own intellectual stimulation. Though attention to comfort is never a priority, it is not completely ignored, as some attention to it goes hand in hand with their inactive lifestyle. Still, ILIs often neglect the world around them and become consistently mired in their own inertia, and are unlikely to notice that anything is missing.
    ILIs are often hesitant or resistant towards lifestyle changes that threaten the commodiously constructed surroundings that they create for themselves. No one is better suited to opening the ILI for change than the hyperactive SEE, whose flurry of constant activity is seen by the ILI as refreshingly active.

    In short, ILIs can look a lot like SLI as I see it.

  11. #11
    Muddy's Avatar
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    Alright here is a better vid:


  12. #12
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    You seem uncomfortable in the video. I would be too, doing one for the forum.

    What do you feel when people tell you to chill or relax? Is it annoying? Personally I don't like it. I am often told to go meditate when I know that is not right for me to do in that moment. I try to be polite when telling people to stop telling me I need to relax. I will when I want to but in the meantime I usually need something else.


    as a role (3rd) function (IEI and ILI)

    The individual dislikes it when others emphasize the need for relaxation, enjoyment, and activities that are supposed to bring these about, because what they need internally is just the opposite — a need for action and resolve. Rather than spend their time trying to "listen to what their body is telling them," they need to have clear external demands that are able to overcome their sense of uncertainty and hesitation.



    as a mobilizing (6th) function (LII and EII)

    The individual has difficulty producing pleasurable sensory experiences for others and for himself, but likes to talk about pleasure, enjoyment, and relaxation, hoping that someone nearby will take the hint and take the lead.
    The individual tends to periodically get wound up and uptight and is generally unable to resolve these sensations himself. He needs someone to help him relax and take an internal look at whether he actually needs or enjoys what he is doing, and what might be the source of the tension that has built up.
    He can tend to extremes in this area, either depriving or indulging the senses to an unhealthy extent.




    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    You seem uncomfortable in the video. I would be too, doing one for the forum.

    What do you feel when people tell you to chill or relax? Is it annoying? Personally I don't like it. I am often told to go meditate when I know that is not right for me to do in that moment. I try to be polite when telling people to stop telling me I need to relax. I will when I want to but in the meantime I usually need something else.


    as a role (3rd) function (IEI and ILI)

    The individual dislikes it when others emphasize the need for relaxation, enjoyment, and activities that are supposed to bring these about, because what they need internally is just the opposite — a need for action and resolve. Rather than spend their time trying to "listen to what their body is telling them," they need to have clear external demands that are able to overcome their sense of uncertainty and hesitation.



    as a mobilizing (6th) function (LII and EII)

    The individual has difficulty producing pleasurable sensory experiences for others and for himself, but likes to talk about pleasure, enjoyment, and relaxation, hoping that someone nearby will take the hint and take the lead.
    The individual tends to periodically get wound up and uptight and is generally unable to resolve these sensations himself. He needs someone to help him relax and take an internal look at whether he actually needs or enjoys what he is doing, and what might be the source of the tension that has built up.
    He can tend to extremes in this area, either depriving or indulging the senses to an unhealthy extent.



    Well, I did say I was Fe polr.

    People very rarely tell me to relax because I'm pretty much relaxed 24/7 (at home at least). If I'm not relaxed then it must be for a good reason I'd therefore probably be annoyed if they told me to relax.


    Quote Originally Posted by ednaT View Post
    What about LIE?
    I'm IP as fuck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    Well this was the best I can for a video because of my shit phone but here you go
    Digital photo camera will do video better. Besides length, light and camera position are not good.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Intj intp or istp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Intj intp or istp
    Those are exactly all the types I have a hard time choosing between. I don't relate at all to any of the other types (save for a little ILE, LSI) but these 3 make my mind go in circles. Its like I'm Ni-dom, Ne seeking, Fe polr and have alpha values.

    I relate a lot to the descriptions of Ni as a leading function and most of the ILI descriptions, but some things about ILI throw me off. For one I don't see SEEs being my dual, the few I have interacted with gave me a distant feeling. Secondly I am not materialistic at all and really only care about money when there is something specific I want. I just don't feel very gamma.

    Then there is LII, which seems to fit equally well but also has some things that just don't fit. While I believe I have strong Ti I seem to use it more demonstratively rather it being a leading factor in my life. I find ESEs to be pleasant company at least for a short while but they quickly tire me out and make me just want to be left alone. I don't seem to be quite as bad with Se as some other LIIs I have observed. And of course there is my irrationality. I know I might be sounding ILE I this point but I am very introverted which simply doesn't make sense.

    And lastly there is SLI. I have consistently got along extremely well ILEs and IEEs even when others have not and I seem to greatly value Ne. Being Fe polr makes a lot sense and I take great pleasure in exploring the outdoors and being in tune with nature. The thing with SLI however is that my Si seems questionable and I use Ni more instead. I'm not all that athletic and some have said I lack the bluntness of an SLI.

    So, its basically like I'm a mix and match of all these types.


    I can say with certainty however that I'm am a textbook enneagram 5, if that helps any.
    Last edited by Muddy; 08-20-2015 at 08:09 AM.

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    video does not fit recommendations still
    T, P, I are more probable
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    I relate a lot to the descriptions of Ni as a leading function and most of the ILI descriptions, but some things about ILI throw me off. For one I don't see SEEs being my dual, the few I have interacted with gave me a distant feeling. Secondly I am not materialistic at all and really only care about money when there is something specific I want. I just don't feel very gamma.
    I know ILIs who aren't materialistic/not addicted to money whatsoever. This is a rather shallow reason to exclude ILI.


    Then there is LII, which seems to fit equally well but also has some things that just don't fit. While I believe I have strong Ti I seem to use it more demonstratively rather it being a leading factor in my life.
    Since then you decided it's leading and not demonstrative?

  19. #19
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    All of the ILIs I know are less materialistic than I am. They sometimes make decisions along lines that to them are practical but that I don't really vibe with much, but I still respect it. Don't buy into the weird Gamma stereotypes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GOLDEN View Post
    All of the ILIs I know are less materialistic than I am. They sometimes make decisions along lines that to them are practical but that I don't really vibe with much, but I still respect it. Don't buy into the weird Gamma stereotypes.
    Yeah I'm thinking that stereotype is more like LIE not ILI.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    I know ILIs who aren't materialistic/not addicted to money whatsoever. This is a rather shallow reason to exclude ILI.
    Since then you decided it's leading and not demonstrative?
    Maybe it is just a dumb stereotype but in just about every socionics source I have read they always paint a picture of ILIs of being rude, intellectually arrogant, and good with money. Someone should really clean that shit up if it isn't the case.

    As I said in the other thread, I'm skeptical about being a Te valuer and I seem to use Ti more instead. Ti and Ni fit equally well as my leading function to be honest. I seem use Ni demonstratively sometimes as well in that I often dismiss a lot of people's supernatural claims. However the contradiction with INTp, other than not fitting the stereotypes, is that alpha doesn't seem like my opposing quadra. I don't feel a sense of being at odds with alpha types or Fe egos in anyway. I tried ISTp since it seemed like a possible alternative but I just can't see myself being Si dom and delta feels more like my opposing quadra. I do agree I'm more likely N than S. Perhaps I'm INTx with a case of EXTREME borderline value of the functions, thus the difficultly typing. I value Ti and Ni almost equally, slight preference for Ne over Te, Si and Fi equally, and am receptive to parts of both Fe and Se. As a whole I seem more irrational then rational but then again I feel Te fits better as the ignoring. Its like I meet in the middle and somehow become a "beta NT".

    In all the socionics test I've taken, as unreliable as I know they are, I always score equally high with INTp and INTj. This is what I mean:

    http://www.socionics.com/sta/sta_tur...ml?I55N54T63j4
    Last edited by Muddy; 08-23-2015 at 12:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    Maybe it is just a dumb stereotype but in just about every socionics source I have read they always paint a picture of ILIs of being rude, intellectually arrogant, and good with money. Someone should really clean that shit up if it isn't the case.
    Lol type descriptions are just illustrations, not every little word must match, just the trends are illustrated in them; why don't you study the theory itself instead? Abstract IE's definitions, Model A, etc.

    There is one ILI I know that's rude, arrogant AND is bad with money. There is another ILI I know that's polite, soft, good with saving money but not good with earning it due to extreme laziness. And so on... These things on their own taken out of any context are not even very specific to any type.


    As I said in the other thread, I'm skeptical about being a Te valuer and I seem to use Ti more instead. Ti and Ni fit equally well as my leading function to be honest. I seem use Ni demonstratively sometimes as well in that I often dismiss a lot of people's supernatural claims. However the contradiction with INTp, other than not fitting the stereotypes, is that alpha doesn't seem like my opposing quadra. I don't feel a sense of being at odds with alpha types or Fe egos in anyway. I tried ISTp since it seemed like a possible alternative but I just can't see myself being Si dom and delta feels more like my opposing quadra. I do agree I'm more likely N than S. Perhaps I'm INTx with a case of EXTREME borderline value of the functions, thus the difficultly typing. I value Ti and Ni almost equally, slight preference for Ne over Te, Si and Fi equally, and am receptive to parts of both Fe and Se. As a whole I seem more irrational then rational but then again I feel Te fits better as the ignoring. Its like I meet in the middle and somehow become a "beta NT".

    In all the socionics test I've taken, as unreliable as I know they are, I always score equally high with INTp and INTj.
    OK here's a tip, for a start, figure out if you are Static or Dynamic.

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    Hmmm if I'd had to choose I'd say my speech tends to be more static. I'm infamously known by others for giving short and simple answers to their questions. If you look back at some of my previous post I do tend start and separate paragraphs using words such as First, Secondly, Next, Then, Lastly, but that may leftist/result speech instead of being static.
    Last edited by Muddy; 08-23-2015 at 01:28 PM.

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    INTJ(Robespierre) - 275
    INTP(Balzac) - 230
    ENTP(Don Quixote) - 220

    ISTP(Gabin) - 195
    ISTJ(Maxim Gorky) - 180
    INFP(Yesenin) - 155
    ISFP(Dumas) - 150
    ENFP(Huxley) - 150
    ESTP(Zhukov) - 145
    ENTJ(Jack London) - 140
    INFJ(Dostoyevsky) - 140
    ESTJ(Stirlitz) - 125
    ISFJ(Dreiser) - 115
    ESFJ(Hugo) - 105
    ENFJ(Hamlet) - 90
    ESFP(Napoleon) - 65



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    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    Maybe it is just a dumb stereotype but in just about every socionics source I have read they always paint a picture of ILIs of being rude, intellectually arrogant, and good with money. Someone should really clean that shit up if it isn't the case.
    Well, the stock socionics types descriptions generally tend to be cartoonish and clumsy -- maybe that's the nature of any "representative portrait." ILIs imo can come across as rude. I know some who are like this, including my mother and a former teacher of mine (whom I started avoiding because she is so negative and says quite hateful, hurtful things without regard for anything except for believing she is "right"). They also can be pretty polite, however. I know two who are outwardly polite southerners, but in terms of values, they do go against the deeper social grain; one of them is a philosophy professor who's deeply into the income-equality movement. The other is someone I worked with in a research setting who dropped out of the urban environment and went back to his small-town rural roots and seems to be thriving -- the gesture there is one of rejection. Neither of these people goes along with what's expected of them, but they're both exceptionally kind people when you get down to the heart of what they're about. That is, sometimes the nicest thing you can say is simply the truth, and that's something they excel at. They both care about the underdog more than average and will support people who appear to be oppressed or in distress.

    I don't know any ILIs who are ultimately money-motivated. The ILIs in my life are too anti-pretension to be materialistic in the proper sense. They appear financially competent, however.

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    The curse of quasi-identical mistyping.




    Type: Balzac, Superid

    Subtype: Robespierre, Superego
    Profile: Introverted
    Balzac
    The intuitive logical introvert (ILI). The Critic. ILI have the ability to abstract and philosophical thinking, noticing contradictions in conclusions and pointing them to others (critics). There is always logical reasoning behind their conclusions. ILI are able to see the ways to get the profit, often they do not take the opportunity. They are naturally sceptical and can pour the cold water on someone whom they believe to be overenthusiastic. ILI are often sceptical about themselves and their own potential too. They appear to be shy, reserved and unenthusiastic.
    Robespierre
    The logical intuitive introvert (INTJ). The Analyst. LII are often perfectionists, see the world as a single structured system, where all the elements are logically interconnected. People of this type strain after order and logic in their own mind and around them. LII are able to pay attention to details and work accurately. They have very stiff principles and ideas of justice. These are based on their logic and therefore on the idea of fairness, but not on the moral rules of the society or family. They are ready to defend their principles and will not walk past something they see as injustice. LII put their principles higher than their own interests or interests of their family and the close ones. The Analysts are able to see multiple potential outcomes and are seeking knowledge in wide spectrum of topics. They prefer abstract theories and are a lot less interested in their practical implementation.

    75% - Dynamics
    2513% - Extraversion
    63% - Rationality
    82% - Logics
    142% - Sensing

    33% -

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    High Priestess glam's Avatar
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    just from vibes, i want to say you seem more Ti base, and not Te creative. your vibe reminds me more of how i, as an Fe type, sometimes react to LIIs and LSIs - like i kind of want to shake them up with Fe, lol. whereas with ILI and SLI, i more often get the feeling i have to be "careful" and more constrained in my natural expressions when interacting with them (even though i don't always actually change my behavior).

    this is just vibes so far, so maybe i'm assuming too much. but i would say yes, do continue to consider joining a Merry quadra ->

    [/unhelpful]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    they always paint a picture of ILIs of being rude, intellectually arrogant, and good with money
    They are significantly interested in money as have valued Se and are not bad in getting them having strong T. Rude... it's trait from upbringing and situation in much degree.

    Someone should really clean that shit up if it isn't the case.
    Descriptions are made for average case, anyway. They may be wrong too in something as are not experimentally proved.

    I tried ISTp since it seemed like a possible alternative but I just can't see myself being Si dom and delta feels more like my opposing quadra.
    You need to feel this from people of delta, not just from descriptions. And also to feel "good" from beta. Then you'll have resonable basis to say such. ISTJ variant is not worst.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    just from vibes, i want to say you seem more Ti base, and not Te creative. your vibe reminds me more of how i, as an Fe type, sometimes react to LIIs and LSIs - like i kind of want to shake them up with Fe, lol. whereas with ILI and SLI, i more often get the feeling i have to be "careful" and more constrained in my natural expressions when interacting with them (even though i don't always actually change my behavior).

    this is just vibes so far, so maybe i'm assuming too much. but i would say yes, do continue to consider joining a Merry quadra ->

    [/unhelpful]
    Yeah, the Te creative thing always throw off. I just assumed I valued it less because of subtypes but I don't see it taking preference over Ti. I think LII is starting to look like the most likely option. I really don't think my Se is strong enough for me to be LSI, it could very well be my polr. I feel the most confident with Ti and Ni. The sociophobia stuff I mentioned before is more likely an enneagram 5 thing then Fe polr. I'd gladly take wild emotions over rough demanding behavior any day. If I were LII that would also check out with me relating to alpha the most. All in all I am probably LII with a lower than usual rationality preference.

    If there is any truth to the plus/minus functions, there might be an explanation why I seem to value certain aspects Se. LII's HA is Si+/Se-. Se- is all about resisting the force of others and overthrowing oppressors, which is exactly the parts of Se I identify with. I have absolutely no desire to impose my own will over others, rather I feel a deep need to resist the forcefulness of others.

    So, I'm thinking about officially going with LII. Everyone agree?
    Last edited by Muddy; 08-23-2015 at 10:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    If there is any truth to the plus/minus functions
    There is no logical or experimental basis for these plus/minus. Bullshit like Reinin's dichs.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    Yeah, the Te creative thing always throw off. I just assumed I valued it less because of subtypes but I don't see it taking preference over Ti. I think LII is starting to look like the most likely option. I really don't think my Se is strong enough for me to be LSI, it could very well be my polr. I feel the most confident with Ti and Ni. The sociophobia stuff I mentioned before is more likely an enneagram 5 thing then Fe polr.
    What, who said social phobia is Fe PoLR specific.. no no these correlations don't work like that.


    I'd gladly take wild emotions over rough demanding behavior any day.
    Lol go dualize with ESE already.


    If I were LII that would also check out with me relating to alpha the most. All in all I am probably LII with a lower than usual rationality preference.
    You do come off like @chips and underwear vibe-wise, to me.



    If there is any truth to the plus/minus functions, there might be an explanation why I seem value certain aspects of Se. LII's HA is Si+/Se-. Se- is all about resisting the force of others and overthrowing oppressors, which is exactly the parts of Se I identify with. I don't have the slightest desire to impose my own will over others, rather I feel a deep need to resist the forcefulness of others.

    So, I thinking about officially going with LII. Everyone agree?
    Yes LII with -Se can do exactly that thing. Sometimes.

    Sure try on LII and see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    They are significantly interested in money as have valued Se and are not bad in getting them having strong T. Rude... it's trait from upbringing and situation in much degree
    Valued Se etc doesn't automatically lead to interest in money stuff. Just like strong T doesn't automatically lead to being rude

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    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    just from vibes, i want to say you seem more Ti base, and not Te creative. your vibe reminds me more of how i, as an Fe type, sometimes react to LIIs and LSIs - like i kind of want to shake them up with Fe, lol. whereas with ILI and SLI, i more often get the feeling i have to be "careful" and more constrained in my natural expressions when interacting with them (even though i don't always actually change my behavior).

    this is just vibes so far, so maybe i'm assuming too much. but i would say yes, do continue to consider joining a Merry quadra ->

    [/unhelpful]
    Agreed. In the video, he seemed kind of awkward but in a rather endearing way and there was some nervous type of smiling and giggling. Perhaps trying to reach out subconsciously to Fe.


    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    Yeah, the Te creative thing always throw off. I just assumed I valued it less because of subtypes but I don't see it taking preference over Ti. I think LII is starting to look like the most likely option. I really don't think my Se is strong enough for me to be LSI, it could very well be my polr. I feel the most confident with Ti and Ni. The sociophobia stuff I mentioned before is more likely an enneagram 5 thing then Fe polr. I'd gladly take wild emotions over rough demanding behavior any day. If I were LII that would also check out with me relating to alpha the most. All in all I am probably LII with a lower than usual rationality preference.

    If there is any truth to the plus/minus functions, there might be an explanation why I seem to value certain aspects Se. LII's HA is Si+/Se-. Se- is all about resisting the force of others and overthrowing oppressors, which is exactly the parts of Se I identify with. I have absolutely no desire to impose my own will over others, rather I feel a deep need to resist the forcefulness of others.

    So, I'm thinking about officially going with LII. Everyone agree?
    I would agree with all of this. I am an LII with irrational subtype so I don't look quite as rigid as some do. And I when I was new to socionics, I also struggled between LII and ILI. But once I got a better understanding of the quadras, it was clear that I was alpha and not gamma and therefore LII rather than ILI.

    I also prefer to use -Se over +Se. Another point for LII.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    \

    You do come off like @chips and underwear vibe-wise, to me.
    Both in video and in writing style I must say. Some of the similarites are eerie I must add.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Valued Se etc doesn't automatically lead to interest in money stuff. Just like strong T doesn't automatically lead to being rude
    Exactly.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    If there is any truth to the plus/minus functions, there might be an explanation why I seem to value certain aspects Se. LII's HA is Si+/Se-. Se- is all about resisting the force of others and overthrowing oppressors, which is exactly the parts of Se I identify with. I have absolutely no desire to impose my own will over others, rather I feel a deep need to resist the forcefulness of others.
    Well Se is called "Point of least resistance" / "vulnerable function" for LIIs, so LII Se- wouldn't be "about resisting the force of others and overthrowing oppressors" but a weakened ability ("least resistance to") to do so. I've recently watched video about an unsupervised dog mulling a child in the front yard of an apartment complex. The dog belonged to an LII man, who, according to witnesses ran out of his home but then stood there and did nothing to pull his dog away. During the interview, however, he gave a very clear logical explanation of what should have been done in this situation, yet he was completely baffled when the moment came to actually do something. That's usually how LII Se polr comes through to me, or at least one instance of it. The mind wishes but there's some kind of extreme hesitancy to follow through.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    So, I'm thinking about officially going with LII. Everyone agree?
    another thing was that your requests for consensus and asking if "everyone agrees" it feels like an 'Aristocratic' quadra trait, which makes me lean towards LSI after reading all of the responses

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    Well Se is called "Point of least resistance" / "vulnerable function" for LIIs, so LII Se- wouldn't be "about resisting the force of others and overthrowing oppressors" but a weakened ability ("least resistance to") to do so. I've recently watched video about an unsupervised dog mulling a child in the front yard of an apartment complex. The dog belonged to an LII man, who, according to witnesses ran out of his home but then stood there and did nothing to pull his dog away. During the interview, however, he gave a very clear logical explanation of what should have been done in this situation, yet he was completely baffled when the moment came to actually do something. That's usually how LII Se polr comes through to me, or at least one instance of it. The mind wishes but there's some kind of extreme hesitancy to follow through.
    Hmmmm. Not sure I can really relate to that example. I would be trying to pull the dog away in that situation or so I think.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    Well Se is called "Point of least resistance" / "vulnerable function" for LIIs, so LII Se- wouldn't be "about resisting the force of others and overthrowing oppressors" but a weakened ability ("least resistance to") to do so. I've recently watched video about an unsupervised dog mulling a child in the front yard of an apartment complex. The dog belonged to an LII man, who, according to witnesses ran out of his home but then stood there and did nothing to pull his dog away. During the interview, however, he gave a very clear logical explanation of what should have been done in this situation, yet he was completely baffled when the moment came to actually do something. That's usually how LII Se polr comes through to me, or at least one instance of it. The mind wishes but there's some kind of extreme hesitancy to follow through.


    another thing was that your requests for consensus and asking if "everyone agrees" it feels like an 'Aristocratic' quadra trait, which makes me lean towards LSI after reading all of the responses
    I don't think LSI is nearly as likely simply because I don't see myself being Ne polr. I see anything particularly lacking or painful regarding my Ne, nor do I feel any kind of threat from Ne egos. Se on the other hand I have more doubts over my ability to use adequately, especially around other people.

    Se polr at least with me seems to manifest as being very sensitive about having hostile attitudes directed towards me rather than just fear of purely physical danger. When I'm around strangers I am very cautious about anything that might provoke an aggressive response. Even just some random asshole on flipping me off on the road for not driving correctly is enough to ruin my day. I also seem to have trouble taking the initiative with things even when I know I need to. I have low determination and I am easily discouraged out of achieving my goals. I have difficulty tolerating bossy behavior and often get into conflicts with those who place a high demand on others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    I don't think LSI is nearly as likely simply because I don't see myself being Ne polr. I see anything particularly lacking or painful regarding my Ne, nor do I feel any kind of threat from Ne egos. Se on the other hand I have more doubts over my ability to use adequately, especially around other people.

    Se polr at least with me seems to manifest as being very sensitive about having hostile attitudes directed towards me rather than just fear of purely physical danger. When I'm around strangers I am very cautious about anything that might provoke an aggressive response. Even just some random asshole on flipping me off on the road for not driving correctly is enough to ruin my day. I also seem to have trouble taking the initiative with things even when I know I need to. I have low determination and I am easily discouraged out of achieving my goals. I have difficulty tolerating bossy behavior and often get into conflicts with those who place a high demand on others.
    This sounds almost like textbook Se PoLR, just saying. I relate to every word of this. Particularly the parts about poor tolerance towards bossiness and aggression.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    Se polr at least with me seems to manifest as being very sensitive about having hostile attitudes directed towards me rather than just fear of purely physical danger. When I'm around strangers I am very cautious about anything that might provoke an aggressive response. Even just some random asshole on flipping me off on the road for not driving correctly is enough to ruin my day.
    That sounds like weak Fi/Fe - not knowing how to read and set people's attitudes and regulate your own emotions are issues with ethical functions - and has nothing to do with Se but strong logic and weak Fx. It sounds almost Fi-PoLR, but you said that you're certain that you're introverted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddytextures View Post
    I have difficulty tolerating bossy behavior and often get into conflicts with those who place a high demand on others.
    Bossy behavior again isn't related to Se. You have described LSEs as bossy: "LSE: Bossy and full of conflicts" - yet consider that Se is not in their quadra values, and neither one of their strongly displayed functions (EIIs wouldn't stick around if it were).

    At its very basic Se is a perceiving function. It doesn't have or provide a 'direction' by itself (like the 'direction' needed to tell you what to do and boss you around) - it merely allows a person to consider their perceptions in objective manner: it's "what is", not go do this or that.

    Which types btw do you perceive as bossy besides LSEs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    Hmmmm. Not sure I can really relate to that example. I would be trying to pull the dog away in that situation or so I think.
    That's what he said in the interview, too, and frankly I think any normal person would try to pull the dog away from the kid. I was surprised as how lucid his explanation was in the interview, but when the actual situation arose he hesitated. It was like he knew what needs to be done, but it didn't quite come together for him in the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    This sounds almost like textbook Se PoLR, just saying. I relate to every word of this. Particularly the parts about poor tolerance towards bossiness and aggression.
    How do you experience Ne-creative and Si-hidden agenda btw?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chips and underwear View Post
    This sounds almost like textbook Se PoLR, just saying. I relate to every word of this. Particularly the parts about poor tolerance towards bossiness and aggression.
    I disagree(about him, not you). It sounds like other non-typology related stuff. These exact problems are why mbti invented step II. And this is why I disagree:

    You(again, this is directed at muddy) tend to receive information as is, right? That's why you sound so specific. I am positive that if I ran more S / N exercises that you'd come out on the S side. Again, I feel as if the modern typology pumped up some stuff up to 11. S / N are just information gathering tools. That's it! Nothing more, nothing less.

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