Please type me - 21Q + pics for VI

[helloworld]

Thank you for taking the time to read my questionnaire. I apologize for my English, it is not my native language.

Background: early 20s, have been into the typology scene for a few months, still pretty new. Video typing is unavailable right now, unfortunately.

Personal concepts

1. What is beauty? What is love?
Beauty is subjective for everyone. Though objective standards of beauty also exists, like the golden ratio, and the waist hip ratio, in large part I think it is very subjective. What someone finds beautiful may be repulsive for another.
Personally, I find these images beautiful:
http://www.bathurstrealestate.com.au...-is-more-1.jpg
http://straightrazorplace.com/attach...gn-house-3.jpg
http://www.bryce5.com/data/media/15/...landscape2.jpg

Seeing the question "What is love" I am almost tempted to say "baby don't hurt me" lol. I guess I could explain love intellectually to be a product of chemicals in your brain, fleeting and meaningless, apart from your instincts trying to make you reproduce and pair bond for enough time to raise your offspring. I accept that as the reality deep inside. However, I try not to think about this in my everyday life. I don't think this attitude is productive or beneficial if I'm going to live in this world and be in relationships. In everyday life, I try not to think about this and other similar truths.

If we are going by the emotional definition, love to me is when I feel happy for their success, worry when they are facing difficulties, and miss them when they're gone.

2. What are your most important values?
If we are going by personal values, as in the qualities I think are important for me:
self-control, patience, restrain, fairness, honesty, kindness, respect, willpower, decisiveness, persistence
Most of the above are due to practicality. I consider them important qualities to have in order to succeed. Some are also out of emotional reasons, for example, I like to be kind and nice to people because it makes me happy.

As for the things I value in society, I don't really have much to say about it. The only things I can think of right now are indivdualism and scientific progress. People should have the freedom to pursue their own paths and do whatever they want, as long as it doesn't affect others. We should focus on scientific progress because it improves our future.

3. Do you have any sort of spiritual/religious beliefs, and why do you hold (or don't) those beliefs in the first place?
I am into Taoism and Buddhist philosophy. I don't believe in gods and deities, and I am not sure why I have to explain NOT having religious beliefs. There is no reason for it really, you can't force yourself into believing something that you don't believe in.

I was in a strict Christian middle school, and there was a lot of social and peer pressure to be Christians. Every faculty member is a Christian and they would preach every morning. A lot of what they said made no sense to me. Initially I tried to keep this quiet, but somehow word got out that I was the only non-Christian in the class, and every week I got summoned to the principal's office to have a friendly chat about my "religion problem". The more they pressured me, the more I resisted. People kept coming up to me, incredulous and confused, "why don't you believe in god?" I tried to evade the questions because I didn't want to be ostracized, but eventually I ran out of patience and answered: "I don't need a reason. The burden of proof lies on the preachers not me."

I knew things could have been much easier if I just lie about it, but I didn't want to lie about my beliefs. There were some people who were not true believers and just went along with it, while not doing what they preach. I used to find them hypocritical/weak, but now I find it understandable, we were young after all.

4. Opinion on war and militaries? What is power to you?

I don't really have a lot of experience with war and militaries, since I live in a pretty peaceful corner of the world. As a concept I think they are the means to get what you want.

I'm not sure if it is appropriate to talk about games in response to a serious question, but here it goes. In RTS/TBS games I generally focus on developing my own cities and rarely attack others, unless there is a reason for it (I want their resources/land). I think it works the same way in real life. Not much else to talk about it.

Power to me is the ability to influence people and make them do what I say. I used to be into politics a few years ago, tried to fight for democracy in my country by going to demonstrations, debating, voting, etc. But now, I think all of that is pretty pointless, because my one vote doesn't change anything after all. I am too weak and powerless. Now, I'm apathetic to politics and don't even read about it anymore. Occasionally, I dream of being this famous and respected figure that leads people into fighting for what we want, or even having some sort of super power/atomic bomb to threaten the enemy into giving me what I want. Ridiculous, I know.

Interests

5. What have you had long conversations about? What are your interests? Why?
In real life, most of my long conversations are about future career, studies, people and relationships. The relationship part is mainly me listening to people's problems and trying to help. I enjoy giving advice like that.
I have had a lot more long conversations online, about all kinds of things I don't even remember.

I am into reading, researching random stuff on the internet (which is why I'm here), movies, video games, programming, cycling and skating. Boring, I know.

6. Interested in health/medicine as a conversation topic? Are you focused on your body?
Not at all, too boring, and no, not really.

7. What do you think of daily chores?
I don't like them, but they're necessary. I always try to do everything in one go as quickly as possible. Just get it over with.

8. Books or films you liked? Recently read/watched or otherwise. Examples welcome.
All kinds of horror/zombie apocalypse/aliens/ghosts/action/fantasy/gore, for example:

Hunger Games
Harry Potter
Resident Evil
Die Hard
Aliens
Gattaca is the most touching movie I remember. I really admire the protagonist for his persistence.

9. What has made you cry? What has made you smile? Why?
I remember crying when Tom Hanks lost his volleyball companion in Cast Away. He went back to civilization but lost his best friend. That was really sad.
I also used to cry when I lost in chess/games when I was young, but not anymore lol.

A lot of things make me smile or laugh aloud, life is full of happiness.
I laugh at a lot of silly things like internet memes, prank videos, people being stupid etc. Here are some recent examples in my youtube watch list:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvvpbg0snls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoIeKXoA8bE

10. Where do you feel: at one with the environment/a sense of belonging?
I'm not sure if I have ever felt like that. Although, I can imagine feeling amazed and at one with the environment if I was on Salar De Uyuni. I still haven't had a chance to visit though.

Evaluation & Behaviour

11. What have people seen as your weaknesses? What do you dislike about yourself?
I have no idea what people see as my weaknesses, nor do I care. As for my own take on it, I am too shy and introverted, lacking in social skills, and I don't like this at all. Trying to improve myself socially right now. This is part of the reason I'm here as well. I'm trying to go out more and talk to people, and they are nicer to me than expected. I'm pretty happy about that. I'm also too cowardly, unwilling to step out of my comfort zone and lacking in ambitions in life. I have been working on those areas for years, but the last one is the hardest to tackle.

12. What have people seen as your strengths? What do you like about yourself?
Again I have no idea what people think, but I'm usually the person who remains calm under a crisis, and be the stone that everyone relies on, I guess. Also I'm more patient than most people, it takes more for me to reach the limit. I'm usually the one that stays and keeps pursuing certain subjects deeply, long after everyone else has lost interest.

13. In what areas of your life would you like help?
Right now, I think I need help mainly socially, and in terms of common sense because apparently my dress sense is abnormal/weird. I thought I dressed well enough, but everyone disagreed. And not only that, I feel like I am lacking in common sense in a lot of areas as well.

14. Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.
Being stuck in a rut is when I withdraw and do nothing except reading all day. This is usually caused by failure.

People & Interactions

15. What qualities do you most like and dislike in other people? What types do you get along with?
I like trustworthy and kind people. I dislike liars, cheaters, bullies.
I get along with everyone except ones who are rude/disrespectful to me.

16. How do you feel about romance/sex? What qualities do you want in a partner?
I like romance and doing the stereotypical dating stuff. I think sex is overrated, because I find it hard to focus on the act.
I want someone who is honest, reliable, kind, trustworthy and responsible. I would also like my partner to take the initiative in terms of contact and physicality.

17. If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?
I'm mainly concerned about their education and upbringing. I would find a decent neighbourhood with no bad influences on them, and also with good schools nearby. I would start talking to them like equals once they can talk, encourage their independent thought and views. With regards to discipline, I think I will set some rules on them, and obey them myself as an example. And if they do break it I will take the appropriate measures that we agreed beforehand, be it taking away their toys or grounding. I will also encourage them to study/work by promising rewards. Basically a reward and punishment system. I haven't thought this out fully yet, as I am still pretty young and don't plan to children in the near future.

18. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward and outward reaction?
Inwardly: my mind becomes very busy, thinking of all kinds of things: How does it affect our relationship? What else is he hiding? What should I do? How should I treat him/approach our relationship from now on? Should I hide my own conflicting beliefs in order not to offend him?
Outwardly: no reaction. Pretend nothing is wrong while I think, stall until after I reach a decision

This exact scenario just happened recently, and the above is what I did.

19. Describe your relationship to society. How do you see people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.
I must admit I don't really give much thought to society. Though I do need it to live, because I don't want to grow my own food and build my own house. Society is like a quest party in RPG games, tanks/dps/healers all have their own strengths and weaknesses, and they cooperate together and cover each other's weaknesses. Same as in real life. This is why I need society, because I can't do everything by myself.
People are either my allies or not. I have friends who are angry and disappointed at humanity, and I must say I can't relate at all. Most people are pretty decent and nice to me.
As for social problems, I used to be very opinionated about that but I have stopped paying attention to them along with politics. I can't change anything anyway, so why make myself sad?

20. How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them?
I don't really "choose my friends", it is more like they choose me lol. But if I get to choose, I would want people who are trustworthy, kind, have common interests, not intrusive, can remain friends over periods of no contact (I often get into bouts of withdrawal, not wanting to talk to anyone). All of my real life friends fit the above criteria.

21. How do you behave around strangers?
At first I'm very reserved and polite, and after some time I might try to break the ice by cracking jokes or being goofy (if I'm relaxed enough). I noticed that I do this with some people, and not with others, and that's why I remain polite and distant with the latter. I'm still not sure why some people makes me relaxed and not others.

[tejing]

My best guess is ILI, but I'm not very confident about gamma quadra types. That whole section of the socion feels like the twilight zone to me.

[Beautiful sky]

Based on your definition of power I say SEE

[Adam Strange]

Your description is of a person not extroverted, not SEE. too logical for ESI. ILI then.


Sent from the twilight zone.

[helloworld]

Your description is of a person

Thank you Adam Strange, are you saying that I might be twisting it to make it seem like the type I have in mind?

[helloworld]

My best guess is ILI, but I'm not very confident about gamma quadra types. That whole section of the socion feels like the twilight zone to me.

Thank you tejing, what makes you think gamma? I got some feedback from a chat room on skype, that I'm likely Ne valuing.

[tejing]

Thank you tejing, what makes you think gamma? I got some feedback from a chat room on skype, that I'm likely Ne valuing.

I believe you're valuing, though it's easy to confuse with . The difference is perhaps most obvious in people's sense of humor. is goofy, silly, and random, while is more about being "out of the box", that is, bringing up a possibility no one expected.

You pretty clearly value , based on your description of power.

Your emphasis on practical results in the important values and child rearing questions make it pretty clear you value over .

Your word choice in the internal monologue you wrote in response to the "claim that clashes" question shows a focus on over . ("how will this affect our relationship?" - with a little ; "is he mad at me?" - )

All these things together make me think gamma quadra, and I got an overall quasi-identical feel from you so I zeroed in on ILI.

Hope that helps.

[helloworld]

is goofy, silly, and random, while is more about being "out of the box", that is, bringing up a possibility no one expected.

Could you explain more about the humor difference? I think I heard people describing humor as goofy, but not so much . I have a feeling that this could be the determining factor for deciding my type.

Again thanks tejing, this is very helpful!

[silke]

your pictures reminded me of @lemontrees who types as SEI

from the questionare IP type seemed likely

[helloworld]

your pictures reminded me of @lemontrees who types as SEI

from the questionare IP type seemed likely

Yes, SEI is also a type that I seriously considered.

Unfortunately, it was ruled out because I found it difficult to get along with alpha NTs, whom I am supposed to like if I was one.

Thanks for your input silke!

[Myst]

Fi valuing and intuitive

[helloworld]

Fi valuing and intuitive

Thank you Myst, could you explain how you arrived at the intuitive conclusion? I have no idea how to tell sensing/intuition apart at all, and I know a few people who are in the same predicament as well.

[tejing]

Clearly articulating much about the nature of and is difficult, so I'll do my best to come up with illustrative examples.

humor - A man walks into a bar and says... "Ouch."
humor - (credit to Dave Barry) The Hawaiian language is quite unusual because when the original Polynesians came in their canoes, most of their consonants were washed overboard in a storm, and they arrived here with almost nothing but vowels. All the streets have names like Kal'ia'iou'amaa'aaa'eiou, and many street signs spontaneously generate new syllables during the night. This confuses the hell out of the tourists, who are easily identifiable because they're the only people wearing Hawaiian shirts.

humor is organized into distinct jokes, often involving wordplay and reversal of expectations, while humor is more of a continuous flow, and often involves quirky metaphor and hyperbole.

I hope that helps.

[nondescript]

Thank you tejing, what makes you think gamma? I got some feedback from a chat room on skype, that I'm likely Ne valuing.

And who might that be? Do you feel as if you value Ne? And / or Ti(hint: Ti is actually about authority(like: who has more education, knowledge, practice etc) meanwhile Te is simply about results).

[tejing]

Ti is actually about authority(like: who has more education, knowledge, practice etc)

That description is pretty tinted with . To me, with an vulnerable, it seems quite alien.
I'd like to say that is about clarity and about efficiency, but then I'd be tinting it with instead.
Really, is about objective evaluation of things relative to other things while is about objective evaluation of things on their own.
Thus evaluates according to a consistency principle, while evaluates according to a utility principle.

[nondescript]

That description is pretty tinted with . To me, with an vulnerable, it seems quite alien.
I'd like to say that is about clarity and about efficiency, but then I'd be tinting it with instead.
Really, is about objective evaluation of things relative to other things while is about objective evaluation of things on their own.
Thus evaluates according to a consistency principle, while evaluates according to a utility principle.

Does it really sound Se tinted? Or does it sound so just because what is written in TIM field?

[ghost of forum past]

Does it really sound Se tinted? Or does it sound so just because what is written in TIM field?

Yes, because you mixed Ti, which is by itself a function that creates personal structures, with Se, which with Ti is capable of forcing these structures into reality.

For example, Beta is generally a very authoritarian quadra within its ranks (contrary to their anti-establishment attitudes) that ensures that the "powerful people" are "leaders", where they can impose their Ti maxims onto everyone in the group.

Conversely, Alpha isn't authoritarian in this sense. Alphas will certainly have their own Ti "rules" but they aren't necessarily forced onto everyone. Because of the focus on Ne instead, the focus is on thoughts and structures that are consistent with the following actions.

This argument is a good reason why Socionics IMs can't be defined universally across quadras - functions in Socionics are relative in that they are somehow dependent on other valued functions within the quadra.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry to derail your thread, @lowbcal. You sound socially introverted, Se-seeking and Fi-valuing, so ILI seems like the most plausible type for you.

[Aylen]

Thank you Myst, could you explain how you arrived at the intuitive conclusion? I have no idea how to tell sensing/intuition apart at all, and I know a few people who are in the same predicament as well.

I have this idea that sensing is pretty similar to an intuitive function but the information is experienced and processed in/through the body, whereas intuition is primarily experienced in my head (It feels like I am downloading information, subconsciously, sometimes.) although it is not "thinking". For me intuition is like having a direct source to information that is not conscious in most people so it makes it hard to explain exactly where it comes from. The feeling is like "I know".

I just notice that a lot of people who are sensors seem to explain things almost intuitively. There are a couple Se base here who comes up with stuff all the time that comes off intuitive to me but I realized they are getting the information directly through their outer and inner senses. I find it fascinating.

[helloworld]

humor is organized into distinct jokes, often involving wordplay and reversal of expectations, while humor is more of a continuous flow, and often involves quirky metaphor and hyperbole.

Thank you tejing for the detailed explanation. I actually enjoy both forms of humor in this example. But the way I joke in real life is overwhelmingly in the way and almost never .
This also reminds me of a friend who has a very distinct form of humor with puns and wordplays. Now that you explained, I think he is probably valuing.

Ti is actually about authority(like: who has more education, knowledge, practice etc) meanwhile Te is simply about results

Thank you nondescript. Going by nondescript's definition, I would be Ti valuing because I do care much more about the experts/doctors' opinion than random people's, solely because of their qualification and status.

However, as explained by tejing and Hacim, I don't think that is what Ti means.

Thanks @Hacim, I don't consider this derailing because it is very helpful. Also, @Aylen, this is very interesting. I find it difficult to tell the two apart as well.

[Myst]

Thank you Myst, could you explain how you arrived at the intuitive conclusion? I have no idea how to tell sensing/intuition apart at all, and I know a few people who are in the same predicament as well.

Aylen explained to you

How I'd express it is do you focus on the concrete sensory data itself or focus on something else that's beyond it (associated with it where you no longer look at the sensory origin).

[Aylen]

Aylen explained to you

How I'd express it is do you focus on the concrete sensory data itself or focus on something else that's beyond it (associated with it where you no longer look at the sensory origin).

Are Your Perceptions Based on Sensory or
Intuitive Information About the World?


All of us perceive reality in two stages. First of all, we use our sensing ability, and then we process the sensory data using our intuition. People may be divided processes they prefer to use. Thus, we distinguish sensing from intuitive types by their preferred perceptive process.


People who rely on sensory information to guide their awareness of the world are often described as realists. They are keen observers and proud of it. They live in the here and now and like the neighborhood. They use their sight, hearing, smell, taste and touch to tell them about life.


Sensing people tend to rely on familiar tactics and past experience to guide their perception of new situations.


While the sensing person perceives what is seen, the intuitive person forms perceptions by combining what is seen with ideas and associations from imagination and memory.


Intuitive people see life more in terms of imaginative possibility than practical reality. They look to the future. They search for meaning. They revel in images, ideas, theory and speculation. They are experimenters. They try out new ways of interpreting things. They prefer indirect routes of perception. Their view of reality is guided and shaped by their unconscious.


At their personality extremes, sensing-type people may seem rather lack-luster and unimaginative, while intuitive people may seem to have no sense of reality. The former may appear to have feet planted too firmly on the ground, while the latter may seem to fly through the air and never touch down.


Sensors make good reporters but poor poets. Intuitives may well be mathematical geniuses, but you probably wouldn't knowingly pick one to be your bookkeeper.


Again, all of us need and use both sensing and intuitive processing to form perceptions. But most of us most of us favor one process more than the other. And that preference is an important part of your personality type.

http://insightgame.org/intro.php

[Olduvai]

Based on your definition of power I say SEE

You pretty clearly value , based on your description of power.

How else would/could you define it?

[Beautiful sky]

How else would/could you define it?

Se? Mobilizing others to enact your will which is what you want and desire, static perception of the quality of objects their texture etc.

[Pa3s]

I can relate to many of your statements, although you seem to react differently to some situations we've both experienced.

Seeing the question "What is love" I am almost tempted to say "baby don't hurt me" lol. I guess I could explain love intellectually to be a product of chemicals in your brain, fleeting and meaningless, apart from your instincts trying to make you reproduce and pair bond for enough time to raise your offspring. I accept that as the reality deep inside. However, I try not to think about this in my everyday life. I don't think this attitude is productive or beneficial if I'm going to live in this world and be in relationships. In everyday life, I try not to think about this and other similar truths.
[...]
If we are going by the emotional definition, love to me is when I feel happy for their success, worry when they are facing difficulties, and miss them when they're gone.

Very interesting, I wrote pretty much the same in my questionnaire. But while I readily accept this explanation because it brings me closer to the truth (at least that's what I think), you prefer to disregard this information as it is not helpful in maintaining and experiencing relationships, while still believing in its correctness (strong, but devalued Ti + Fi hidden agenda?). Also, the latter part might indicate Gamma values.

Power to me is the ability to influence people and make them do what I say. I used to be into politics a few years ago, tried to fight for democracy in my country by going to demonstrations, debating, voting, etc. But now, I think all of that is pretty pointless, because my one vote doesn't change anything after all. I am too weak and powerless. Now, I'm apathetic to politics and don't even read about it anymore.

I was also very much into politics (and, to a lesser degree, I still am) and went through a similar process. However, I never had the need to discuss my thoughts with other people to begin with (even if they agreed with me). Also, some negative experiences in heated internet debates made me stop discussing my convictions online as well. Like you, I was very eager and idealistic at first, but gave up at some point.

However, I did not give up because I was too ineffective (that was never a problem), but because the system I advocated proved to be not really worth striving for. I think this combination of caring for the betterment of society and being aware of the own power/influence is another point for Se/Fi/Te-valuing.

10. Where do you feel: at one with the environment/a sense of belonging?
I'm not sure if I have ever felt like that. Although, I can imagine feeling amazed and at one with the environment if I was on Salar De Uyuni. I still haven't had a chance to visit though.

That awesome, because this is one of the places I was referring to when I described my "place of belonging". But I didn't know where it is or how it's called, so I couldn't name it.

You're obviously introverted and seem very intutive. Thinking over feeling is rather likely, too. I wouldn't overestimate the fact that you give relationship advice sometimes, as relationships/personal problems are not exactly devoid of logic. Overall, I think tejing gave a good breakdown of your information elements, valued Se+Fi+Te makes sense. In some answers, I've got the impression that you have a somewhat fatalist/defeatist attitude. This is something I'd associate with ILI so I'd agree with others that this is the type you should examine and see if it fits.

[Olduvai]

Se? Mobilizing others to enact your will which is what you want and desire, static perception of the quality of objects their texture etc.

I meant power. How else could you define power?

[tejing]

I meant power. How else could you define power?

Power is the ability to maintain my own status quo regardless of the choices of others (and random chance). If you've considered every eventuality before it comes, responding to the decisions of others, even those working against you, feels more like a dance than a struggle. To borrow an idiom, power is the ability to walk between the raindrops.